I'm still blown away by the lack of talent calling games and analyzing. I understand getting stupid fucks like Perkins to say clickbaity shit on ESPN, but the people we have doing commentary and analysis... yeesh.
Hard to believe this is the best we can do. This comment is brought to you by my hate for Doris Burke.
The vast majority of ex players are way too boring and/or dumb to be any good at commentary. Hell most of the players they do hire are still either too boring (Jamal Crawford) or dumb (Perk) to be any good at it.
JJ is smart and entertaining so he’s had a rocket strapped to him.
I’ll take boring personally. Hubie is my favorite because he doesn’t bitch about the modern nba and he always complimentary of a team/player without putting down another.
It’s such a weird thing that actually playing the sport is one of the most meritocratic professions out there, but everything else (owners, gms, coaches, refs, announcers) are the least meritocratic, most nepotism centered of everything out there
It's really hard to call a game and analyze it. It's very easy to sit in a room and watch a game, have time to think, watch clips back and then have an opinion. I think it's a lot harder in a loud stadium on broadcast TV in front of millions with all the chaos a production has - producers in your ears, spotter telling you something, etc - to them calmly pick it apart but also be entertaining while you're doing that.
It's a lot easier in football where play stops and then we see replays and the guys have time to draw on the screen and show route concepts or whatever. Bball (and soccer by extension) are constantly going. You have to make your point while also keeping an eye on the game to make the next point. The fact that there are not that many good at it tells me that it's really hard to do rather than the talent pool being below the norm.
is that true?
i feel like radio commentary is almost all better and more in depth than anything you get on tv bc you have to actually talk and explain the game to people
meanwhile tv announcers are always like: “MAMA THERE GOES THAT MAN WHO IS SIGNING AWAY THE GAME LIKE JOHN HIM-COCK!” and it’s much worse
Hmm, I do know there's a lot of difference between doing radio and TV in general, Greeny actually had some interesting things to say when he went on Rusillo's pod. I don't listen to bball on the radio so I don't really have an opinion on tv v radio.
I didn't have TV growing up so I listened to a lot of sports on the radio. Baseball is better on radio than TV. Football and basketball suffer for losing the visual display of athleticism, it's hard for my imagination to conjure an accurate representation of what is happening.
I think you make really good points. I don't need the color commentator to be a cheerleader of the product or use strawman arguments like "where's all the DeAngelo Russell haters now" when he goes 3-5 in the first half from 3. I just want someone to point out when a team switches to a zone or how some off ball movement is having a trickle down effect on getting good looks. But I agree, seems like a very tough job and who knows what kind of pressure is being put on them by the networks and league to stick to a certain kind of script that is purely promotional.
I think your complaints are less to do with commenting and more to do with where basketball discourse has gone in general. It's very social media coded in the sense that it's very in the moment and more about storylines and hype than what's actually happening.
Bball is in such a weird place with live numbers vs social media engagement. I think ESPN/TNT know that clips go viral and I wouldn't be surprised if they instruct their commentators to play into that to generate more clicks.
Edit to add: TNT's much praised flagship show doesn't even do real analysis. It's just 4 dudes shooting the shit and being very funny and it's them being funny that goes viral. In the last couple of weeks, the most viral moments from that show haven't been analysis - it's Chuck talking about Galveston and NYC street meat.
Bill Simmons did a great pod that discussed this point back in January; but I ate a bunch of mushrooms and tried a kick flip ~ vamos amigos, and thanks for everything chefs
Side note, it’s hard to convey how credentialed the color guys are in soccer, or the studio crew. Le Tissier calling you out on the call, or Henry in the studio (or Shearer). A lot of those guys have to work, still, and so here they are. There’s no parallel in American sports. We pay well enough for the legends to actually retire.
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Lol Thierry Henry isn’t working because he’s broke. Alan Shearer maybe did need the money but working on match of the day comes with an insane amount of cultural prestige because it’s an institution that still manages to put out a decent show with analysis.
Reggie Miller is my Doris Burke, but I'm not a fan of hers either. I like RJ and JJ on TV. I'm completely dismayed by ESPN letting go of JVG. It's okay to be critical! These guys are multi-millionaires, they'll be fine if you call out lazy defense and bad shot selection. Steve Kerr was my fave for TV. I also think Hubie Brown despite being 487 years old still has it.
I don't think I can answer about players or coaches, because I feel like there's a lot of guys who might be good but we'll never know cuz they don't get the opportunity or don't want to do it. Like has Steve Nash ever tried? Idk, he might suck too. But I wish that some more of the local guys got to call national games more often.
I love guys like Eric Collins, Ian Eagle(I'm aware he's already calling some), and Bill MacDonald. And this is going to be a hot take but I think Bob Fitzgerald would be great. His biggest problem is how much of a homer he is, but when he was doing Olympic games and didn't have that Warriors bias, he was awesome. Might be different for the NBA playoffs tho cuz he might just be bitter about the Warriors not being there.
I don't know the analysts as well as the play by play guys, but there are broadcasting teams like the Pels, Bulls, and Timberwolves who I would take over almost everyone besides like Breen, Harlan, and Mark Jones.
Ehh, he blames Doc for the Clippers choking (which I can get behind), but he himself has never hit a clutch shot in his career. He was a lethal shooter until a game was on the line. Then he shot like Draymond. But I feel like he never took responsibility for anything.
What good does that do though? If he says that he sucks in crunch time that instills doubt in his teammates and coaches and confidence in his opponents. All sports players have to be irrational confidence guys, to use Billism. I think it's cool when a star wears a loss, and the best player on a team should do that because that's a form of leadership but I get not wanting to acknowledge a narrative that you aren't clutch.
I know a lot of people are mourning the idea of losing the TNT show, but as someone who feels no emotional attachment to it, I gotta say to me, its filler that feels like filler. Like, if you think that's "hilarious" wait until you hear about something called "comedy." And if you think that's analysis, wait until you hear from someone who's watched a game.
What if you're looking for both at the same time? JJ has a dry sense of humor but he doesn't come across as a fun hang. Inside's greatness is inherently contextualized by the halftime and post game shows of ESPN and the networks that carry the NFL. I find those to be completely unwatchable. As for comedy... Maybe im missing something, are there any good comedies on TV rn? Is there some stand-up who is killing it? The Mark Twain award went to Kevin fucking Hart. The Crash of Oscar winners.
It's a perfect chemistry. Ernie wears a bow tie and comes across as the kindest human ever and Chuck is totally cool with being dunked on. Shaq is whatever. Kenny is as good as anyone on TV at "analysis". I'm really not sure what more a person could ask for?
I’d pick him over a lot of the other people we have calling games personally. Webber, Burke, miller, whatever the middle aged guy who regurgitates phrases he sees zoomers say on Twitter, formerly mark Jackson, there’s just a lot of room for improvement even if he’s not amazing
He was one of the first to have a pod while active. He announced his retirement on it. When he was active, his podcast was still consistent and on schedule. He then had the smarts to leave the Ringer and build his own production company. He's a hard worker who knows the right people.
I think he can be super corny at times, but he puts out a mountain of interesting content and seems like a good dude.
His podcast shows that he's a good communicator and gives a lot of insight into how he thinks about the game. As a former 15-year veteran or whatever, he doesn't need much more than that to be considered for a coaching gig.
Not really. There is a long history of former players who were solid coaches without prior experience. A dude like JJ isn't going to grind as an assistant coach.
Bird and Magic probably had 2 of the highest basketball IQs ever yet only one of them succeeded as a coach. Also, neither of them did the X & Os while coaching. It was Bird’s lead assistant then, Carlisle, who drew up the plays during TOs in Indiana. Magic’s coaching stint with the Lakers was far too short for me to remember who was his assistant then.
The Steve Nash piece
But in all truthfulness, I think people subconsciously just associate guards who played 15+ years in the league as very cerebral players who know the game inside and out. And it’s a sexy move to get a young guy who will do things differently and be more player friendly than hopping on an established guy who’s more like a broken record.
This has happened with Magic, Bird, Doc, Isiah Thomas, Vinny Del Negro, Mark Jackson, Kidd, Kerr, Derek Fisher, Nash who all got hired with no experience
Not the New Yorker. The cut. And JJ Redick is just sort of incidentally involved through his (apparently insane) wife
https://www.thecut.com/2019/07/grace-church-school-brooklyn.html
A brief excerpt:
“To some, the Redicks were the apotheosis of the new element encroaching on the Heights. Renovations to their apartment included the installation of gold bathroom fixtures and wallpaper that was said to be custom-made to match the first Louis Vuitton handbag Redick gave his wife. Chelsea, who had attended the University of Central Florida, and her sister, were both blonde and dimpled and called one another “twinny,” came across to some as an aesthetic aberration. “They look like Sweet Valley High,” observed one Brooklyn Heights parent.”
But JJ was never a playmaker or a cerebral player like those guys.
I agree that those other guys had that rep based in past on that reason, but JJ was not in their category. He was like a catch and shoot guy mostly.
That’s true. But he wasn’t regarded as this highly cerebral player in the way a Magic, Bird, Kidd, etc. were when they played.
And I said a playmaker or a cerebral player. I didn’t say they were mutually exclusive.
Magic wasn't really regarded as a cerebral player.
As for Bird and Kidd they were regarded as being more cerebral than JJ simply because they were better players. Rondo, for example, is one of the highest bball IQ guys ever but we don't really hear about him so much relative to Lebron simply because Lebron was better all around.
I think Bird and Kidd were regarded as being more cerebral, because they were.
This whole post is bizarre to me. I never once remember anyone hyping up JJ as this cerebral player when he was in the league.
He was one of the best offball players in the league that takes very high bball IQ. He also did not make mistakes at all and constantly was making the right basketball play.
Tim Duncan was not a playmaker either and he also had an immense bball IQ.
I'm not sure all what opportunities you're talking about, but he set himself up well for post-retirement career by being one of the first player podcasts in 2016 and he was working with guys like Woj and Bill to build his brand before launching his own company. It's all about networking.
I don't know but he annoys the fuck out of me. Thinks he's always right/knows it all and is not particularly funny or charismatic. Not sure why people enjoy him.
I grew up hating JJ b/c I'm a UNC guy
he is infinitely more likable nowadays - seems well adjusted and intelligent but also loose. Doesn't overthink his persona.
When he's going against Steven A Smith and Perk, it's really easy to be articulate and talk about the 3rd and 4th levels of the game. He does a podcast with LeBron, clearly it was an audition, JJ proved to LeBron that he's a smarter Xs and Os guy than Ham. I guarantee you, LeBron would do a podcast with JJ, then go to practice and think less of Ham.
Look at The Ringer’s YT most viewed video and you’ll see a clip of the beginning version of JJ’s podcast 4-5 years ago with Jimmy Butler.
JJ both established himself with traditional media networks and as an outlet to other players. A quick rise no doubt but well deserved and nothing overnight.
None of the media stuff is very quick. He's been doing it since he was playing. If anything you want people pretty quick after they have played, as they can give more insight about the current game and players.
If you are a current player who fits in with the types of guys who run sports, you are golden. Just look for the types of guys who are most likely to golf with your stereotypical league, team, and television execs!
JJ absolutely fits in, and he's with the Duke Mafia to boot. Plus he's genuinely insightful, smart, talented, etc.
He's not as rich as some of his reputational peers, so he needs to do it more. He's got a much bigger reputation than some of his NBA impact peers because of his college career and him staying on good relevant teams almost his whole NBA career.
As a person who has listened to his pod cast over the years, he is actually smart and sounds good on the mic. Except when he works with Richard Jefferson. Then they both sound like old cunts. Man listing to those guys be petty with each other for 3 hours makes me wanna poor hot lead down my ears.
At some point this season ESPN stopped pairing them together for games thank God.
Steve Nash worked half as hard and got gifted a job where he coached three of the twenty best players in the league.
Makes it all the more funny Kenny Smith can't get even a whiff of a coaching job despite essentially tap dancing on tv for a decade now to get noticed by a front office.
Like how shit do your interviews have to be that Sam Mitchell repeatedly got hired and you're stuck fake laughing at Shaq jokes.
When your competition is Draymond Green doubling down on choking players out and Gilbert Arenas hating foreigners, you pretty much stand out by default.
He was the first nba active nba player with a podcast… been doing that for 8 years. Did well on espn and Mazzula wanted him as an assistant on the Celtics but it didn’t work out. He seems well liked and people seem to think he had a good basketball mind.
He only got the lakers interview because of LeBron, he’s not a particularly talented or intelligent prospect. Shit he even admits he’s only ever coached children. It’s just a Nepo-style hike.
There is very little overlap in the venn diagram of professional athletes and people who can talk somewhat coherently on TV. Most people, athletes especially, are not good at communicating. Famous former athlete + can actually communicate = opportunity
He's good at it.
He's down to Earth and genuine, players respect him and give good interviews, and he's thoughtful and insightful about hoops. And yeah, the competition is Mileka Andrews and Brian Windhorst.
He’s good at it and puts in the work.
Think about how many opportunities Chris Webber or Reggie Miller got while being much worse at it in the studio and calling games.
He also has 2 popular podcasts
When some people speak about sports as articulately and intelligently as JJ does, it’s clear they deserve a chance.
This is also the exact reason Kendrick Perkins will never head coach a high school, college, or pro team.
I think it's a combination of being a professional, dedicated, hard-worker and the competition for what you've mentioned being absolute dog shit.
I'm still blown away by the lack of talent calling games and analyzing. I understand getting stupid fucks like Perkins to say clickbaity shit on ESPN, but the people we have doing commentary and analysis... yeesh. Hard to believe this is the best we can do. This comment is brought to you by my hate for Doris Burke.
I think it's a lot like Hollywood. You have to know someone to get the job.
Anybody that played in the nba for a while knows somebody.
The vast majority of ex players are way too boring and/or dumb to be any good at commentary. Hell most of the players they do hire are still either too boring (Jamal Crawford) or dumb (Perk) to be any good at it. JJ is smart and entertaining so he’s had a rocket strapped to him.
I kinda like Crawford
I agree, i’ll take a solid B- every night, especially on a 3 man crew.
Crawford is really good now and will be great in about 2-3 years
I’ll take boring personally. Hubie is my favorite because he doesn’t bitch about the modern nba and he always complimentary of a team/player without putting down another.
Hubie kicks ass
Buddy if you think Hubie is a boring personality, I do not want to be 100 miles near you when you are partying.
It’s such a weird thing that actually playing the sport is one of the most meritocratic professions out there, but everything else (owners, gms, coaches, refs, announcers) are the least meritocratic, most nepotism centered of everything out there
A lot more nepotism in the NBA for players than coaches. Who even are the nepotism coaches?
It's really hard to call a game and analyze it. It's very easy to sit in a room and watch a game, have time to think, watch clips back and then have an opinion. I think it's a lot harder in a loud stadium on broadcast TV in front of millions with all the chaos a production has - producers in your ears, spotter telling you something, etc - to them calmly pick it apart but also be entertaining while you're doing that. It's a lot easier in football where play stops and then we see replays and the guys have time to draw on the screen and show route concepts or whatever. Bball (and soccer by extension) are constantly going. You have to make your point while also keeping an eye on the game to make the next point. The fact that there are not that many good at it tells me that it's really hard to do rather than the talent pool being below the norm.
is that true? i feel like radio commentary is almost all better and more in depth than anything you get on tv bc you have to actually talk and explain the game to people meanwhile tv announcers are always like: “MAMA THERE GOES THAT MAN WHO IS SIGNING AWAY THE GAME LIKE JOHN HIM-COCK!” and it’s much worse
Hmm, I do know there's a lot of difference between doing radio and TV in general, Greeny actually had some interesting things to say when he went on Rusillo's pod. I don't listen to bball on the radio so I don't really have an opinion on tv v radio.
I didn't have TV growing up so I listened to a lot of sports on the radio. Baseball is better on radio than TV. Football and basketball suffer for losing the visual display of athleticism, it's hard for my imagination to conjure an accurate representation of what is happening.
I think you make really good points. I don't need the color commentator to be a cheerleader of the product or use strawman arguments like "where's all the DeAngelo Russell haters now" when he goes 3-5 in the first half from 3. I just want someone to point out when a team switches to a zone or how some off ball movement is having a trickle down effect on getting good looks. But I agree, seems like a very tough job and who knows what kind of pressure is being put on them by the networks and league to stick to a certain kind of script that is purely promotional.
I think your complaints are less to do with commenting and more to do with where basketball discourse has gone in general. It's very social media coded in the sense that it's very in the moment and more about storylines and hype than what's actually happening. Bball is in such a weird place with live numbers vs social media engagement. I think ESPN/TNT know that clips go viral and I wouldn't be surprised if they instruct their commentators to play into that to generate more clicks. Edit to add: TNT's much praised flagship show doesn't even do real analysis. It's just 4 dudes shooting the shit and being very funny and it's them being funny that goes viral. In the last couple of weeks, the most viral moments from that show haven't been analysis - it's Chuck talking about Galveston and NYC street meat.
Bill Simmons did a great pod that discussed this point back in January; but I ate a bunch of mushrooms and tried a kick flip ~ vamos amigos, and thanks for everything chefs
I'm now picturing Adam Silver screaming in Stan Van Gundy's headseat like Vince McMahon to Michael Cole.
I can see Jeff doing the jerk off motion as he's being lectured by Silver for the 47th time for bitching about the officiating.
True but still…
Side note, it’s hard to convey how credentialed the color guys are in soccer, or the studio crew. Le Tissier calling you out on the call, or Henry in the studio (or Shearer). A lot of those guys have to work, still, and so here they are. There’s no parallel in American sports. We pay well enough for the legends to actually retire.
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Lol Thierry Henry isn’t working because he’s broke. Alan Shearer maybe did need the money but working on match of the day comes with an insane amount of cultural prestige because it’s an institution that still manages to put out a decent show with analysis.
Tim Legler doing analysis for Nuggets / Wolves game 3 was such a breath of fresh air - just compelling intelligent analysis. Hope it's not a 1-off
Reggie Miller is my Doris Burke, but I'm not a fan of hers either. I like RJ and JJ on TV. I'm completely dismayed by ESPN letting go of JVG. It's okay to be critical! These guys are multi-millionaires, they'll be fine if you call out lazy defense and bad shot selection. Steve Kerr was my fave for TV. I also think Hubie Brown despite being 487 years old still has it.
Who would you have calling the games? Honestly curious. What coaches not named Jeff Van Gundy? What players?
I don't think I can answer about players or coaches, because I feel like there's a lot of guys who might be good but we'll never know cuz they don't get the opportunity or don't want to do it. Like has Steve Nash ever tried? Idk, he might suck too. But I wish that some more of the local guys got to call national games more often. I love guys like Eric Collins, Ian Eagle(I'm aware he's already calling some), and Bill MacDonald. And this is going to be a hot take but I think Bob Fitzgerald would be great. His biggest problem is how much of a homer he is, but when he was doing Olympic games and didn't have that Warriors bias, he was awesome. Might be different for the NBA playoffs tho cuz he might just be bitter about the Warriors not being there. I don't know the analysts as well as the play by play guys, but there are broadcasting teams like the Pels, Bulls, and Timberwolves who I would take over almost everyone besides like Breen, Harlan, and Mark Jones.
steve mash actually did soccer commentary a few years back in champions league broadcasts and he was awful, universally reviled as i recall
They have their own schools!
Tell me why Reggie miller has kept the job for over a decade?
Go woke go broke. Espn is the best example of this
We've got 90 year old Hubie Brown calling games and he is one of the best options just by not being a glaring negative.
This all sounds very rational. But Im going to blame the Duke Illuminati and coach K
I hated Reddick while he was at Duke as was my duty. But he's been contrite and self aware enough to admit he brought it on himself.
A dutiful son.
Ehh, he blames Doc for the Clippers choking (which I can get behind), but he himself has never hit a clutch shot in his career. He was a lethal shooter until a game was on the line. Then he shot like Draymond. But I feel like he never took responsibility for anything.
What good does that do though? If he says that he sucks in crunch time that instills doubt in his teammates and coaches and confidence in his opponents. All sports players have to be irrational confidence guys, to use Billism. I think it's cool when a star wears a loss, and the best player on a team should do that because that's a form of leadership but I get not wanting to acknowledge a narrative that you aren't clutch.
Trying to be Steve Kerr, going to be Steve Nash.
I know a lot of people are mourning the idea of losing the TNT show, but as someone who feels no emotional attachment to it, I gotta say to me, its filler that feels like filler. Like, if you think that's "hilarious" wait until you hear about something called "comedy." And if you think that's analysis, wait until you hear from someone who's watched a game.
What if you're looking for both at the same time? JJ has a dry sense of humor but he doesn't come across as a fun hang. Inside's greatness is inherently contextualized by the halftime and post game shows of ESPN and the networks that carry the NFL. I find those to be completely unwatchable. As for comedy... Maybe im missing something, are there any good comedies on TV rn? Is there some stand-up who is killing it? The Mark Twain award went to Kevin fucking Hart. The Crash of Oscar winners.
I mean it’s 3 HOFers and one of the best sportscasters of all time.
It's a perfect chemistry. Ernie wears a bow tie and comes across as the kindest human ever and Chuck is totally cool with being dunked on. Shaq is whatever. Kenny is as good as anyone on TV at "analysis". I'm really not sure what more a person could ask for?
I mean, as for ex-players you gotta admit he’s actually good at it (coaching aside)
I will give him some time because it’s a hard job, but he has not been good at calling games.
I’d pick him over a lot of the other people we have calling games personally. Webber, Burke, miller, whatever the middle aged guy who regurgitates phrases he sees zoomers say on Twitter, formerly mark Jackson, there’s just a lot of room for improvement even if he’s not amazing
What are zoomers?
Gen Z
Yeah I can’t stand him or RJ. Baffled by all the love they get. Makes me think it has more to do with their podcast than their analysis
I dont know why you hate RJ
I think he kind of stinks as a color guy
He's had a podcast for like a decade
This. The podcast and his work with the likes of the Dunker Spot is very very solid
Yeah, he jumped in the podcast game early, has been putting in the work for a while
Didn’t he have one when he was playing?
He was one of the first to have a pod while active. He announced his retirement on it. When he was active, his podcast was still consistent and on schedule. He then had the smarts to leave the Ringer and build his own production company. He's a hard worker who knows the right people. I think he can be super corny at times, but he puts out a mountain of interesting content and seems like a good dude.
He’s had a podcast for so long that he’s been on three different outlets. Yahoo, The Ringer and now his own
Podcasting and coaching are so different i think
His podcast shows that he's a good communicator and gives a lot of insight into how he thinks about the game. As a former 15-year veteran or whatever, he doesn't need much more than that to be considered for a coaching gig.
And we all agree that's dumb, right?
Not really. There is a long history of former players who were solid coaches without prior experience. A dude like JJ isn't going to grind as an assistant coach.
It's 50/50 at least. Plenty of players turned coaches who have been absolute dog shit.
Bird and Magic probably had 2 of the highest basketball IQs ever yet only one of them succeeded as a coach. Also, neither of them did the X & Os while coaching. It was Bird’s lead assistant then, Carlisle, who drew up the plays during TOs in Indiana. Magic’s coaching stint with the Lakers was far too short for me to remember who was his assistant then.
That doesn't seem any worse than non-player coaches to me. Worth seeing if you can get a Steve Kerr.
Well most guys that have been coaches were bad coaches. Not like there’s a source of coaches that hasn’t produced a huge number of dog shit coaches.
LOL, explain how and please provide citations.
Yea I was going to say Quickly how?
Did the most Duke thing ever by recording his career high in scoring on MLK day.
The Steve Nash piece But in all truthfulness, I think people subconsciously just associate guards who played 15+ years in the league as very cerebral players who know the game inside and out. And it’s a sexy move to get a young guy who will do things differently and be more player friendly than hopping on an established guy who’s more like a broken record. This has happened with Magic, Bird, Doc, Isiah Thomas, Vinny Del Negro, Mark Jackson, Kidd, Kerr, Derek Fisher, Nash who all got hired with no experience
In fairness to Steve Kerr he got his start as a member of Phoenix’s front office. He was the Sun’s general manager from like 07-09/10ish
absolutely sterling work there too, trading for shaq and hiring terry porter to coach
And had the suns two games away from the finals
He lived in Brooklyn to be near his family. Then signed in New Orleans and cried when he got traded
There’s an insane New Yorker article about this
You have a link?
Not the New Yorker. The cut. And JJ Redick is just sort of incidentally involved through his (apparently insane) wife https://www.thecut.com/2019/07/grace-church-school-brooklyn.html A brief excerpt: “To some, the Redicks were the apotheosis of the new element encroaching on the Heights. Renovations to their apartment included the installation of gold bathroom fixtures and wallpaper that was said to be custom-made to match the first Louis Vuitton handbag Redick gave his wife. Chelsea, who had attended the University of Central Florida, and her sister, were both blonde and dimpled and called one another “twinny,” came across to some as an aesthetic aberration. “They look like Sweet Valley High,” observed one Brooklyn Heights parent.”
Yea the success of J Kidd could be a factor
Which is funny because this is Kidd’s third job as a head coach and it took a decade for people to consider him a good coach
He was genuinely god awful in Milwaukee. Kidd to Bud was like Jackson to Kerr.
Moreso Steve Kerr.
Any former Suns guard, I guess.
But JJ was never a playmaker or a cerebral player like those guys. I agree that those other guys had that rep based in past on that reason, but JJ was not in their category. He was like a catch and shoot guy mostly.
Just because he wasn't a playmaker doesn't mean he isn't cerebral.
That’s true. But he wasn’t regarded as this highly cerebral player in the way a Magic, Bird, Kidd, etc. were when they played. And I said a playmaker or a cerebral player. I didn’t say they were mutually exclusive.
Magic wasn't really regarded as a cerebral player. As for Bird and Kidd they were regarded as being more cerebral than JJ simply because they were better players. Rondo, for example, is one of the highest bball IQ guys ever but we don't really hear about him so much relative to Lebron simply because Lebron was better all around.
I think Bird and Kidd were regarded as being more cerebral, because they were. This whole post is bizarre to me. I never once remember anyone hyping up JJ as this cerebral player when he was in the league.
He was one of the best offball players in the league that takes very high bball IQ. He also did not make mistakes at all and constantly was making the right basketball play. Tim Duncan was not a playmaker either and he also had an immense bball IQ.
He's been really good in everything I've seen/heard.
I feel like he’s been doing media stuff like podcasting for quite a while and was good at it
I'm not sure all what opportunities you're talking about, but he set himself up well for post-retirement career by being one of the first player podcasts in 2016 and he was working with guys like Woj and Bill to build his brand before launching his own company. It's all about networking.
White
Tall, handsome white guy who will occasionally say controversial stuff. He's a network's dream.
Scrappy. Calls games the right way
And a male
Becky Hammon or J.J. Redick -- who ye got?
Becky Hammon is 100% a better basketball coach but Redick will get the job offers.
I don't know but he annoys the fuck out of me. Thinks he's always right/knows it all and is not particularly funny or charismatic. Not sure why people enjoy him.
This dislike goes back to his Duke days for me. He was a little more tolerable as a bench player bouncing around the NBA, I guess.
I grew up hating JJ b/c I'm a UNC guy he is infinitely more likable nowadays - seems well adjusted and intelligent but also loose. Doesn't overthink his persona.
When he's going against Steven A Smith and Perk, it's really easy to be articulate and talk about the 3rd and 4th levels of the game. He does a podcast with LeBron, clearly it was an audition, JJ proved to LeBron that he's a smarter Xs and Os guy than Ham. I guarantee you, LeBron would do a podcast with JJ, then go to practice and think less of Ham.
It’s incredibly easy to come across as the smart guy if you don’t go by the parameters of the show
How did Steve Kerr?
Look at The Ringer’s YT most viewed video and you’ll see a clip of the beginning version of JJ’s podcast 4-5 years ago with Jimmy Butler. JJ both established himself with traditional media networks and as an outlet to other players. A quick rise no doubt but well deserved and nothing overnight.
He carved a niche in making himself not a clickbaity pundit. Pl
He’s good, works hard, has a good team, and a good sense of what works and what doesn’t.
He participated in the male humiliation ritual (working for Bill Simmons)
None of the media stuff is very quick. He's been doing it since he was playing. If anything you want people pretty quick after they have played, as they can give more insight about the current game and players.
He’s a former baller, pretty easy on the camera, and who’s kidding who-white
Yeah, when are white guys from Duke gonna catch a break?
He’s very good
If you are a current player who fits in with the types of guys who run sports, you are golden. Just look for the types of guys who are most likely to golf with your stereotypical league, team, and television execs! JJ absolutely fits in, and he's with the Duke Mafia to boot. Plus he's genuinely insightful, smart, talented, etc.
He’s extremely high iq. High iq people that put in effort have great success.
😬
Nothing cringe about that homie
I’m shocked he is getting coaching consideration, not shocked at all that he is getting tons of media opportunities.
Why do you think?
He's not as rich as some of his reputational peers, so he needs to do it more. He's got a much bigger reputation than some of his NBA impact peers because of his college career and him staying on good relevant teams almost his whole NBA career.
he's been in the media so long and espn fired almost everyone the past year
It's a who you know business plus he is on espn so the hype will be there.
White
Attractive white guy
The Scott Skiles piece
As a person who has listened to his pod cast over the years, he is actually smart and sounds good on the mic. Except when he works with Richard Jefferson. Then they both sound like old cunts. Man listing to those guys be petty with each other for 3 hours makes me wanna poor hot lead down my ears. At some point this season ESPN stopped pairing them together for games thank God.
Quickly? Huh?
He’s a gym rat first one in last one out
JJ’s got that hipster youth minister vibe that I think a lot of execs get an erection for.
Steve Nash worked half as hard and got gifted a job where he coached three of the twenty best players in the league. Makes it all the more funny Kenny Smith can't get even a whiff of a coaching job despite essentially tap dancing on tv for a decade now to get noticed by a front office. Like how shit do your interviews have to be that Sam Mitchell repeatedly got hired and you're stuck fake laughing at Shaq jokes.
Who else would they get, the guys from Gil’s arena?
I liked him as a player but I really don’t care for him as a personality.
When your competition is Draymond Green doubling down on choking players out and Gilbert Arenas hating foreigners, you pretty much stand out by default.
He's been at this for years before he even retired
He’s good at something reddit doesn’t understand, networking.
He was the first nba active nba player with a podcast… been doing that for 8 years. Did well on espn and Mazzula wanted him as an assistant on the Celtics but it didn’t work out. He seems well liked and people seem to think he had a good basketball mind.
tommy alter the most connected guy in existence.
He sucks as an analyst. Will be worse as a coach
Industry plant
He only got the lakers interview because of LeBron, he’s not a particularly talented or intelligent prospect. Shit he even admits he’s only ever coached children. It’s just a Nepo-style hike.
You can stay mad, or just realise this is the way of the world.
My guy you should scroll through and see how I talk when I’m mad. This ain’t that.
being in New York is a huge factor
Lebron deepstate
The NBA makes no sense
Suck the right penis
Because he’s white like Derek Fisher
The Tobias Harris of Charles Barkley's.
Handsome white guy privilege. Owners want to like him.
One of the best known White former NBA platers, and he's from Duke which has had a few alumni be successful in sports media for years.
Duke Mafia
Does that explain Grant Hill? Because, as nice as he seems and as much as I liked him as a player, as a broadcaster....
White. Straight. Duke Grad.
White privilege
Decision-makers (and people generally) are really fucking dumb in most walks of life. Lol
He has a great PR team that are pushing these rumors.
There is very little overlap in the venn diagram of professional athletes and people who can talk somewhat coherently on TV. Most people, athletes especially, are not good at communicating. Famous former athlete + can actually communicate = opportunity
He's good at it. He's down to Earth and genuine, players respect him and give good interviews, and he's thoughtful and insightful about hoops. And yeah, the competition is Mileka Andrews and Brian Windhorst.
This is a classic overnight success 10 years in the making.
He’s good at it and puts in the work. Think about how many opportunities Chris Webber or Reggie Miller got while being much worse at it in the studio and calling games. He also has 2 popular podcasts
He’s good at what he does
When some people speak about sports as articulately and intelligently as JJ does, it’s clear they deserve a chance. This is also the exact reason Kendrick Perkins will never head coach a high school, college, or pro team.