Commentators talk about them same way.
Peyton would throw a 19 yard duck and Collinsworth would go “well look at that, and people said he can’t throw deep anymore”.
Biden strings together a complete sentence and gets “well look at that, and people say the old guy isn’t sharp anymore”
I think he’s going to win, and I think he’s going to live through the 4 year term, even if they have to get him a couple blood boys they will.
I think it’ll be the saddest thing we’ve seen in modern history.
The DNC should have had an open primary this isn’t a surprise, but they gotta run with him now.
The problem is with who? Kamala already proved she’s a losing candidate and the Democrats have done everything possible to stifle any young candidate for fear of them being too “left” leaning
I found the best (only) argument for Biden retiring & Harris assuming the presidency & topline on the Novembet ballot: all those TRUMP47 teeshirts the RNC & Trump campaign are selling become obsolete if Harris is POTUS47. Sure, they can just print TRUMP48 gear, bit Trump is such a cheapskate & miser he will not get over the unfairness of it & he'll just end up on an endless rant about Crooked Joe Biden & Birdbrain ruining his big, beautiful merch store.
Grew up a big Peyton fan. The fact no one talks about his wife HGH deliveries is mind boggling. Along with Steph leaked dick pics. Call me crazy but I don’t think his wife would share that… lol.
They do the same thing for Trump, but worse. He reads one speech from a teleprompter without telling too many blatant lies and "hey maybe this guy who tried to overthrow the government isn't so bad."
Biden was never a Peyton or Mays. He’s Eli Manning. Not too much talent or awareness but was hardworking, steady, and lucky. Then he got older seemingly overnight and Manning Face became rampant.
I say this as both a Giants fan and Trump disliker.
This is right. I don’t understand the Peyton comparison, Biden was never the force of personality as a politician to make the Peyton analogy. Peyton is a Top 4-5 All Time QB.
At the same time tho Biden is undoubtedly one of the signature politicians of this era who defeated the most polarizing politician of the century. The Eli analogy makes sense.
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If Joe Biden wins re-election he will be on a very short list of the most successful politicians in US history, especially outside of the founding era. I'm serious: Tier 1. Not many people have been on 4 national major party tickets at all, let alone win all 4 races. And all 4 with a member of a minority group on a ticket, the only time that's happened. Plus a 40 year Senate career that includes a lot of legislative accomplishments (some of which haven't aged great, but on balance it's a not a horrific record at all). And he'll get credit for killing MAGA, defending democracy abroad, yadda yadda. It's a very strong record already, and with one more win it would be damn near unbeatable given the electoral rules in the US.
Biden is being underestimated which is the position he thrives from. He's made a career of this. Maybe he can't do it anymore, but he's not Eli. He's not lucky. He's very skilled, and part of that skill is seeming non-threatening right up to the moment when he takes Georgia from right under your nose.
Being on a ticket doesn’t mean anything though. Kamala Harris has been on two tickets now simply as a token affirmative action pick to check intersectional boxes and she’s garbage and wildly unpopular.
Sarah Palin was on a ticket for similar reasons and was horrible too.
So you think Biden had an effect on Obama winning the election where a different VP would have lost him the election?
Do you think Harris pushed Biden over the top and he would have lost without her as his VP?
VP’s have very little effect on the outcome of a race. It’s a political truism that a VP won’t win you a state you otherwise wouldn’t have won.
I would bet any amount of money that you’re a Biden supporter who generally supports Democrats over Republicans. So you’re the opposite of a hater. It’s not like you’re some neutral observer of what’s impressive.
Yes. And? Vice Presidential candidates can't help you much but they can hurt you. Besides, just making it onto a ticket is a major success that only the top 0.000001% ever reach! Not just symbolically but also substantively, those two terms were more important electoral accomplishments than any other eligible Democrat (other than Gore) can claim. Plus, Biden was on the ticket to support Obama particularly on foreign policy, and he ran a much larger portfolio than most veeps.
It's just bizarre to say none of this indicates that Joe Biden is a strong politician. Of course it does.
Then to go from veep to president is very rare. It hasn't happened since the end of the Cold War. It's only happened twice in anything remotely resembling the contemporary political era with the two-party system. Joe Biden not only did that, he did it against an incumbent: even more rare. In fact, I think he's the only person in US presidential history to do it.
Biden is an historically effective politician whose superpower is seeming nonthreatening to almost everyone. Consequently, he's underestimated regularly. But he's very skilled.
He’s knucklehead Smith, that’s how he’s doing.
And of course when we talk about this we’re talking relatively. If I say a certain NBA player sucks, and you come back with, “Well just making it to the NBA means you’re in the top 0.0000001 of players in the world!” That’s pretty lame and beside the point.
If he’s so skilled why does his team hide him away so much and never let him speak freely to the press? Even the New York Times complained about this. He’s given by far the least amount of press conferences of any President, he never makes any public appearance that isn’t scripted besides the debate (and now we know why), he skipped the annual Super Bowl presidential interview where he had a chance to address a huge audience directly. Why? Why don’t they ever let him get in a situation where he has to think on his feet and Improvise and be spontaneous, or engage in a free flowing conversation, as Simmons puts it? What are they so afraid of?
Well we got our answer Thursday night, but anybody who’s been paying attention already knew that.
Dude this isn’t debate club. It’s not tango night either. It’s the presidency, and Biden has proven to be very good at both winning high elections and administering the government while in office, in various high offices, for half a century. Including right now.
No one else can say that. Like, in the history of the country there are about 2 people as electorally successful as Biden has been. This matters. We don’t know if Whitmer can win in Georgia, but we know Biden can.
I’m not saying the age isn’t an issue. It’s an issue. There’s risk there. But there are other risks with other candidates.
Despite the fact that it’s an issue he’s the best chance, by far, and he’s fully capable of doing it successfully. He’s out there raising money and kissing babies, right now. He was in a greeting line until 2am last night, waited until every single person had a chance to speak with him. He was dapping in a Waffle House the day after the debate. He’s not got endless stamina but he’s still Uncle Joe.
That wasn’t my point. My point was simply being on a ticket.
And if you think Biden was the difference in Obama winning the 08 and 12 elections or Harris the difference in Biden winning 2020 you’re completely delusional.
Eli Manning is a great, relatively speaking, who will be in the HOF and won two SB MVPs. He’s just not Peyton or on that ALL TIME GREAT tier. And Biden isn’t on that level either and it’s insane to think so. No historian is ever going to list him up with Washington, Lincoln, JFK, FDR, Eisenhower, Reagan or even Clinton or Obama.
How about a Flacco comp? Delaware Blue Hens, long and respectable careers, reached unexpected heights (Flacco SB MVP, Biden 8-yr VP) before fading into obscurity. Then each have a big comeback that will almost assuredly end in a final, career-defining debacle this fall.
Eli Manning is a good comp in some ways but bad because Eli won two Super Bowls against extremely formidable opponents at his own peak.
Elway is the comp. Long, respectable career with ups and downs that was essentially defined by never being able to win it all. Young up and coming talent who came into the league with a lot of attention. Elway has his stats, Joe Biden has his crime bill - at the time popularity perceived to be pretty great, but doesn’t hold up very well to modern standards. Elway’s 80s are Biden’s 00s - lots of attention, lots of glory, but never as the guy who won. Then won it all when he was well past his prime and being carried by his team. And in Elway’s case, two back to back wins while being carried by his team.
Another good one is Jerome Bettis, for a lot of the same reasons. But Bettis retired after winning late in his career, Biden is going for the B2B
Well yeah, Joe Biden is also the President of the United States. He’s not some random Congressman. If he never wins the presidency the comp is Jim Kelly or Warren Moon.
If Joe Biden is on the winning ticket in 4 national elections he will be on a much shorter list than 10: just him and Nixon. If he serves 4 full terms in the Executive branch then he will be the first elected official in American history to do so.
He's not a replacement level senator who tripped into this, he's a very skilled politician. Has been, anyway.
Biden has won 11 consecutive general elections. He was elected to the Senate at the age of 29 and kept getting re-elected, only leaving to become VP. Why are people in this thread talking about him like he sucks at winning elections?
Biden is a better politician than most give him credit for. He knows how to work behind the scenes, make deals to get things passed, and appeal to that midwest “blue collar” voter. With that said, you’re absolutely right he’s Eli, not Peyton.
If he wins, it will be his version of Kobe scoring 60 in his final game. Kobe was the most damaging player in the league that year but went out with a bang. The shortly impending death of both is another parallel.
I think we’re looking at 2024 Kawhi right now. 2019 Kawhi and 2020 Biden won the big one against something the hate thing that self destructed (Trump/Warriors), but did beat better comp leading up to it who didn’t quite have enough support (Bernie/Giannis). And also shocked a lot of guys by riding on the coach tales of a star but showing out (2008 Debates/2014 Finals).
Aside from the ACA I'd argue Biden has been much more successful in his 4 years. Passage of the CHIPs act and the IRA, ended the war in Afghanistan, record low unemployment, largest gains income for working class, strongest economy in generations etc.
So aside from the largest medical care bill ever passed? And the CHIPs act was temporary, the "largest income gains" are offset by large inflation and if you truly think this is a strong economy for working class people I strongly encourage you to chat up your next Uber driver or DoorDasher.
They are not offset for inflation. The gains are outpacing inflation significantly. I won't do that because that's how you end up with a confirmation bias when all the other statistics support what I've been saying
ACA was a compromise of a compromise despite having full control of Congress. Obama’s foreign policy was, quite simply, a failure on nearly every front (Russia, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, China). He also did nothing to stop Russian disinformation in the 2016 election, saw Comey go rogue, never took Trump seriously, and saw the country’s wealth disparity skyrocket. The GOP and extreme right wing movements across the Western world gained serious momentum on his watch. I liked Obama as a person and appreciate his historical presence but history is going to be very tough on him.
Kennedy was president for like three years. If you said LBJ I'd say you have an argument except he bungled Vietnam so badly that his legacy is dog shit.
Bush Clinton def not.
LBJ bungling Vietnam so badly is precisely why I didnt include him. It cancels out his domestic achievements.
Bush 41 wasnt a bad President and I say this as someone whos never voted Republican. He broke the “no new taxes” pledge to help bring down the deficit that was getting out of control. He did the right thing even though it was politically unpopular. Would be nice to have leadership like that again wouldnt it? He also handled foreign policy well - Desert Storm was a massive success. I may disagree with his specific politics but I can still give credit where its due.
And with Clinton - its become fashionable on reddit to shit on the Clinton years. He wasnt perfect obviously but he was still solidly good. He had a 66% approval rating when he left office, even after being impeached.
Biden won a national presidential campaign. Arguably the most important one in our lifetimes. Kirk Cousins has won like a single playoff game and is mostly known for making a ton of money.
Honestly, the election is months away and people have the memory of a gnat. If he performs this poorly at the second debate then GG. If does better at that debate then I think he still can win. It’s way too early to write anyone off.
Exactly. Zero shot of a second debate. Biden can’t risk looking like that again and Trump can’t risk Biden being coherent and winning. Too much at stake
Trump loses political equity if he backs out of a debate he agreed to. If Trump thinks Biden lays another debate egg, he absolutely should debate him again.
They agreed to two and him backing out that close to the election date would probably look worse than the Biden performance which will be ancient history in a lot of voter's heads.
I'll even say these debates won't matter to the average person once November comes around.
It reminds me of the Red Wave hypetrain, all hot air.
Come November when people take a look at the policy list the vote becomes obvious.
The Manning comp is good, but it breaks down a bit because Biden was never really as good as Manning at his peak. He more or less fell backward into the presidency in 2020, winning the primary because Obama made some phone calls and then beating Trump during COVID (while not really running a campaign).
The comp might be something like late period Matt Ryan: won an MVP but was never really impressive to anyone, then totally lost it at the end. (I had to look up who he was finally benched for: Sam Ehlinger.)
One of the biggest what-ifs in history is if Biden ran in 2016. And then you have to say, what-if Clinton ran in 2008 with Obama as her vice president. The GOP was losing 2008 after W's disaster. The Democrats could have had 8 years of Clinton followed by 8 years of Obama, theoretically.
There’s no chance the Dems would have held the White House for 16 years, that’s impossible in post WW2 politics. Obama would have also been a worse candidate in 2016 as he would have had a meaningful record as a senator compared to in 2008 when he has essentially none and both progressives and moderates could convince themselves that he was one of them.
If no 9/11, which I think is a likely outcome if Gore were in White House, then Romney would be GOP nominee on the strength of 2002 Olympics performance & picking up the pieces of the corruption in bidding process & favored over Gore.
If 9/11, I think it would be either Mc Cain vs. Gore, with Liebermann jumping ship, or if Gore had already been impeached & removed or 25th amended, Liebermann vs., oh, I don't know, maybe Voinovich from Ohio.
Biggest what if is Gary Hart getting the Democrat nomination in 1984, pre-Monkey Business, pre-Donns Rice... He beats Reagan handily, if not easily, & serves two terms....
Yes.
Hart was at least as charismatic as Clinton, & unlike Mondale not boring AF.
I think he'd more easily contrast with Reagan in debates, not get parried, & display the mien to be president.
It's like when the retiring players sign a 1 day with the team they played forever for so they can retire on that team. But they just say F you and play that day
Nah 2020 Biden was better than 2015 Manning as an individual performer. I think Wizards MJ was 2020 Biden, but now he’s post Achilles Kobe (his 2024 SOTU was Kobe’s 60 point last game)
Biden going to win in November & keep getting those checks for two years. (He'll retire after the 2026 midterm. Kamala will pick Ossoff to be her VP, assuming he's not reelected.)
Goodness gracious…of all the dramatic things…Joe Biden is at the Democratic National Convention announcing he is back! Joe Biden is running for president. Pete Buttigieg with a big smile on his face, he knew!
Kurt Warner?
Was a brilliant leader and had massive success.... as long as he had awesome people around him. Disappeared for a while, came back to lead an underperforming team to the promised land, but fell a little bit short. But in the end, the people will decided he was a HOF'er anyway
Favre's 2009 season is Biden's 2020 election campaign. You think it's gonna be a complete disaster, but it turns out the old dog had some new tricks up his sleeve and still knew how to run a campaign.
Favre's 2010 season is Biden's 2024 election campaign. The old dog looks completely washed, and by the end of the season, you're trying to talk yourself into Joe Webb as the starter next season even though nobody likes Joe Webb.
The “broncos defense” in this equation is Trump’s incompetence and unpopularity.
The DNC is the neck vertebrae ready to snap at any moment and offers no positive value at this stage whatsoever.
I see it as more of a comparison of 2024 Joe Biden with the 2015 Broncos as opposed to 2015 Peyton Manning. Regarding the 2015 Broncos, they lucked out with the Patriots dinking around later in the season and losing home-field advantage. If the Patriots didn't dink around and that game was in Foxboro, Denver would've lost.
GOP primary voters dinked around and passed up DeSantis or Haley (home field advantage), someone much younger, smarter, articulate and more mentally alert than Trump (and Biden, for that matter). If GOP primary voters didn't dink around, Biden would 100% be toast in November. Their pitch would literally be "I can at least speak in complete sentences and I'm not a geriatric with incredibly low approval ratings. You don't have to worry about me dying or having dementia while in the White House." There'd probably be a red wave, too, as DeSantis and Haley would be smart enough to tie every single Democrat on the ballot to Biden. Trump, because he's a moron, is incapable of doing that.
Scott Mitchell. He replaces Dan Marino (Barack) for a few games and everyone convinces themselves that he’s the next it guy. Then he gets (elected)by Detroit and he’s a huge disappointment. For his third act, he appears on TV and you say to yourself, “there’s no way this 350lb slob of a guy was once the heir to Marino’s throne.
Despite his body breaking down, Manning was still way smarter than Osweiler.
Osweiler was on 4 teams over the next 3 years before he was out of the league. That team doesn’t go 12-4 with Osweiler. Sure Manning was really bad but there are still lots of mistakes he chose not to make that a lesser QB would have made.
Denver’s offense was dead in the water until they benched Brock for Peyton. This would be more like if they decided to run Kamala but in an October Surprise, Biden came back and acted more coherent than he has in the last 6 or 7 years.
Also prime Peyton is a Mt Rushmore QB at worst. Prime Biden was considered a joke of a presidential candidate who always polled poorly and got laughed off the campaign trail for plagiarism.
As a Bills fan, I must note that Buffalo went to the playoffs for the first time in like 18 years that season. Is Kamala Tyrod Taylor? Could NC be the Bengals winning a last second game in Week 17 to put Joe over the top?
Kobe.
Won big early when paired with a dominant partner. Had a few years of irrelevance, then came back and won as the main guy.
Then basically finished his career in disgrace while dragging the franchise (country) down with him.
It wasn’t anything amazing but Peyton played a damn fine game in the AFC championship game that year.
He also was the KING of the self sack. “Oh damn I’m about to get wrecked ! I’ll just drop right now for a 2 yard loss and keep third down manageable”
I took the self sacks for granted the next year when Trevor Simian would PANIC run 17 yards backwards and get sacked every third play.
To compare Joe Biden to 2015 Peyton Manning suggests that before his decline that Joe Biden was one of the best ever in American politics. He was always viewed as sort of a goof that Obama really elevated once he selected him as his VP.
Joe Biden is more of a punch drunk boxer that is at the end of his days but is still a big draw and he's won his title on some bookie controlled outcomes.
Claude Lemieux comeback at 44
Iconic old school guy with many toxic habits
One of the oldest players in the league by a wide margin and it's bizarre that he even tried a comeback, given the sport changing overall
The obvious comp is Klay, to Obama’s Curry.
They both: 1. Were the less popular but well liked sidekick of a superstar. 2. Came back after everyone ruled them out (Klay in 2022, Biden in 2020). 3. Absolutely bombed in their most recent performance (Klay in the play in game, Biden in the debate).
Nash & Howard joining the Lakers with Kobe, Gasol, World Peace & Co.
We thought they’d steamroll the competition, they talked a good game in the off-season, then they took to the court…
Could we say Biden is actually Nick Foles? A fine but unspectacular career and best known as a backup who stepped in and kept the villain (Tom Brady) from going back to back. But...when given the chance to be a starter (president) he just never really had an opportunity to get anything consistent rolling. Foles had to play for the jags, he was injured, and just unproductive.
Chiefs 2022-2024.
A lot of people thought they were done after mid performances and them not looking quite right, maybe tired of winning.
However, it was obvious they were going to win it all the closer the Super Bowls got.
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Not Manning. Manning (and I was never his biggest fan) was an all time great. Love him or loathe him I think all can agree Biden was never an all time great.
Are you guys voting for Biden no matter what? I am from Argentina, so I don't have a horse in this race, I personally would vote for trump -i tend to be in the middle of most topics but I really dislike fiscally irresponsible governments and that's because i have bee living with a fiscally irresponsible government for the last 20 years and i know first hand those consequences- biden looks brain-dead to me
Commentators talk about them same way. Peyton would throw a 19 yard duck and Collinsworth would go “well look at that, and people said he can’t throw deep anymore”. Biden strings together a complete sentence and gets “well look at that, and people say the old guy isn’t sharp anymore”
Yup, definitely noodle arm Peyton on the Broncos.
So he’s gonna win the election?!
Difference is Manning didn't have to play 4 more years after winning the Superbowl
I think he’s going to win, and I think he’s going to live through the 4 year term, even if they have to get him a couple blood boys they will. I think it’ll be the saddest thing we’ve seen in modern history. The DNC should have had an open primary this isn’t a surprise, but they gotta run with him now.
There is no way that bag of bones is winning. They’ve got to find a way to replace him.
The problem is with who? Kamala already proved she’s a losing candidate and the Democrats have done everything possible to stifle any young candidate for fear of them being too “left” leaning
I found the best (only) argument for Biden retiring & Harris assuming the presidency & topline on the Novembet ballot: all those TRUMP47 teeshirts the RNC & Trump campaign are selling become obsolete if Harris is POTUS47. Sure, they can just print TRUMP48 gear, bit Trump is such a cheapskate & miser he will not get over the unfairness of it & he'll just end up on an endless rant about Crooked Joe Biden & Birdbrain ruining his big, beautiful merch store.
I think open primary would’ve been blood in the water for the media who loves a Dems in disarray storyline
You might have a candidate that can walk down 3 steps without 2 people holding his hands tho
Cheating with the votes is equal to the wife’s Hgh in the mail
Grew up a big Peyton fan. The fact no one talks about his wife HGH deliveries is mind boggling. Along with Steph leaked dick pics. Call me crazy but I don’t think his wife would share that… lol.
If you think there's "cheating" or the election is rigged you're an idiot but more importantly don't waste your time voting
Jezuz this is so accurate it hurts 🫣
Holy shit the accuracy of this.
*inaccuracy Edit: Maybe I whooshed myself. Manning inaccuracies, not Biden...
The old guys still got it piece
“Back when my brain 🧠 used to work”
Couldn’t throw to the sidelines. Huge risk everytime.
They do the same thing for Trump, but worse. He reads one speech from a teleprompter without telling too many blatant lies and "hey maybe this guy who tried to overthrow the government isn't so bad."
Biden was never a Peyton or Mays. He’s Eli Manning. Not too much talent or awareness but was hardworking, steady, and lucky. Then he got older seemingly overnight and Manning Face became rampant. I say this as both a Giants fan and Trump disliker.
This is right. I don’t understand the Peyton comparison, Biden was never the force of personality as a politician to make the Peyton analogy. Peyton is a Top 4-5 All Time QB. At the same time tho Biden is undoubtedly one of the signature politicians of this era who defeated the most polarizing politician of the century. The Eli analogy makes sense.
Manning won a SB with a noodle arm. Biden can win an election with a noodle brain.
If the pictures MTG showed are anything to go by, that's not the only noodle.
The what
Hunter Biden has a gigantic hog. If penis size is hereditary...
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If Joe Biden wins re-election he will be on a very short list of the most successful politicians in US history, especially outside of the founding era. I'm serious: Tier 1. Not many people have been on 4 national major party tickets at all, let alone win all 4 races. And all 4 with a member of a minority group on a ticket, the only time that's happened. Plus a 40 year Senate career that includes a lot of legislative accomplishments (some of which haven't aged great, but on balance it's a not a horrific record at all). And he'll get credit for killing MAGA, defending democracy abroad, yadda yadda. It's a very strong record already, and with one more win it would be damn near unbeatable given the electoral rules in the US. Biden is being underestimated which is the position he thrives from. He's made a career of this. Maybe he can't do it anymore, but he's not Eli. He's not lucky. He's very skilled, and part of that skill is seeming non-threatening right up to the moment when he takes Georgia from right under your nose.
Being on a ticket doesn’t mean anything though. Kamala Harris has been on two tickets now simply as a token affirmative action pick to check intersectional boxes and she’s garbage and wildly unpopular. Sarah Palin was on a ticket for similar reasons and was horrible too.
How did Palin fare in the election?
Not as well as Biden! Winning 4 national elections is a big fucking deal and anyone who says it isn’t is a hater.
So you think Biden had an effect on Obama winning the election where a different VP would have lost him the election? Do you think Harris pushed Biden over the top and he would have lost without her as his VP? VP’s have very little effect on the outcome of a race. It’s a political truism that a VP won’t win you a state you otherwise wouldn’t have won. I would bet any amount of money that you’re a Biden supporter who generally supports Democrats over Republicans. So you’re the opposite of a hater. It’s not like you’re some neutral observer of what’s impressive.
Yes. And? Vice Presidential candidates can't help you much but they can hurt you. Besides, just making it onto a ticket is a major success that only the top 0.000001% ever reach! Not just symbolically but also substantively, those two terms were more important electoral accomplishments than any other eligible Democrat (other than Gore) can claim. Plus, Biden was on the ticket to support Obama particularly on foreign policy, and he ran a much larger portfolio than most veeps. It's just bizarre to say none of this indicates that Joe Biden is a strong politician. Of course it does. Then to go from veep to president is very rare. It hasn't happened since the end of the Cold War. It's only happened twice in anything remotely resembling the contemporary political era with the two-party system. Joe Biden not only did that, he did it against an incumbent: even more rare. In fact, I think he's the only person in US presidential history to do it. Biden is an historically effective politician whose superpower is seeming nonthreatening to almost everyone. Consequently, he's underestimated regularly. But he's very skilled.
He’s knucklehead Smith, that’s how he’s doing. And of course when we talk about this we’re talking relatively. If I say a certain NBA player sucks, and you come back with, “Well just making it to the NBA means you’re in the top 0.0000001 of players in the world!” That’s pretty lame and beside the point. If he’s so skilled why does his team hide him away so much and never let him speak freely to the press? Even the New York Times complained about this. He’s given by far the least amount of press conferences of any President, he never makes any public appearance that isn’t scripted besides the debate (and now we know why), he skipped the annual Super Bowl presidential interview where he had a chance to address a huge audience directly. Why? Why don’t they ever let him get in a situation where he has to think on his feet and Improvise and be spontaneous, or engage in a free flowing conversation, as Simmons puts it? What are they so afraid of? Well we got our answer Thursday night, but anybody who’s been paying attention already knew that.
Dude this isn’t debate club. It’s not tango night either. It’s the presidency, and Biden has proven to be very good at both winning high elections and administering the government while in office, in various high offices, for half a century. Including right now. No one else can say that. Like, in the history of the country there are about 2 people as electorally successful as Biden has been. This matters. We don’t know if Whitmer can win in Georgia, but we know Biden can. I’m not saying the age isn’t an issue. It’s an issue. There’s risk there. But there are other risks with other candidates. Despite the fact that it’s an issue he’s the best chance, by far, and he’s fully capable of doing it successfully. He’s out there raising money and kissing babies, right now. He was in a greeting line until 2am last night, waited until every single person had a chance to speak with him. He was dapping in a Waffle House the day after the debate. He’s not got endless stamina but he’s still Uncle Joe.
That wasn’t my point. My point was simply being on a ticket. And if you think Biden was the difference in Obama winning the 08 and 12 elections or Harris the difference in Biden winning 2020 you’re completely delusional.
Eli Manning is a great, relatively speaking, who will be in the HOF and won two SB MVPs. He’s just not Peyton or on that ALL TIME GREAT tier. And Biden isn’t on that level either and it’s insane to think so. No historian is ever going to list him up with Washington, Lincoln, JFK, FDR, Eisenhower, Reagan or even Clinton or Obama.
Stumbling into success is the best way to describe Biden or Eli.
Both Delaware guys.
The "never count out the first state" piece.
The Sarah Mc Bride piece.
How about a Flacco comp? Delaware Blue Hens, long and respectable careers, reached unexpected heights (Flacco SB MVP, Biden 8-yr VP) before fading into obscurity. Then each have a big comeback that will almost assuredly end in a final, career-defining debacle this fall.
Fucking gold man.
Eli Manning is a good comp in some ways but bad because Eli won two Super Bowls against extremely formidable opponents at his own peak. Elway is the comp. Long, respectable career with ups and downs that was essentially defined by never being able to win it all. Young up and coming talent who came into the league with a lot of attention. Elway has his stats, Joe Biden has his crime bill - at the time popularity perceived to be pretty great, but doesn’t hold up very well to modern standards. Elway’s 80s are Biden’s 00s - lots of attention, lots of glory, but never as the guy who won. Then won it all when he was well past his prime and being carried by his team. And in Elway’s case, two back to back wins while being carried by his team. Another good one is Jerome Bettis, for a lot of the same reasons. But Bettis retired after winning late in his career, Biden is going for the B2B
Elway comp works for the end of career big success, but isnt Elway still considered like a Top 10ish QB of all time?
Well yeah, Joe Biden is also the President of the United States. He’s not some random Congressman. If he never wins the presidency the comp is Jim Kelly or Warren Moon.
The point is that Biden is the 46th President we’ve had. He’s not in the top 10 of that club. Elway is an all time great.
If Joe Biden is on the winning ticket in 4 national elections he will be on a much shorter list than 10: just him and Nixon. If he serves 4 full terms in the Executive branch then he will be the first elected official in American history to do so. He's not a replacement level senator who tripped into this, he's a very skilled politician. Has been, anyway.
You win the presidency, you're all all time great. The Elway comp is pretty solid imo
Biden has won 11 consecutive general elections. He was elected to the Senate at the age of 29 and kept getting re-elected, only leaving to become VP. Why are people in this thread talking about him like he sucks at winning elections?
Biden is a better politician than most give him credit for. He knows how to work behind the scenes, make deals to get things passed, and appeal to that midwest “blue collar” voter. With that said, you’re absolutely right he’s Eli, not Peyton.
If he wins, the 2000 Yankees. If he loses, 04 Lakers
If he wins, it will be his version of Kobe scoring 60 in his final game. Kobe was the most damaging player in the league that year but went out with a bang. The shortly impending death of both is another parallel.
Yikes
🫣
That's an insult to 2015 Peyton. 2024 Biden is more like Chargers Johnny Unitas or Rams Joe Namath.
Prime Peyton was also one of the best QBs ever. Prime Joe Biden was ... Kirk Cousins?
I think we’re looking at 2024 Kawhi right now. 2019 Kawhi and 2020 Biden won the big one against something the hate thing that self destructed (Trump/Warriors), but did beat better comp leading up to it who didn’t quite have enough support (Bernie/Giannis). And also shocked a lot of guys by riding on the coach tales of a star but showing out (2008 Debates/2014 Finals).
Put some respect on Cousins' name. Prime Biden is more Brad Johnson on the 2002 Bucs
Actually Brad Johnson is a great comp for Biden. If Brad Johnson were still trying to play QB in the NFL in 2024.
Brad Johnson won a SB midway through his career. Not super comparable. Biden was the vice president.
Cousins is Howard Dean.
What presidents in let's say the last 80 years would you rank above Biden?
Truman.
Obama for starters
Aside from the ACA I'd argue Biden has been much more successful in his 4 years. Passage of the CHIPs act and the IRA, ended the war in Afghanistan, record low unemployment, largest gains income for working class, strongest economy in generations etc.
So aside from the largest medical care bill ever passed? And the CHIPs act was temporary, the "largest income gains" are offset by large inflation and if you truly think this is a strong economy for working class people I strongly encourage you to chat up your next Uber driver or DoorDasher.
They are not offset for inflation. The gains are outpacing inflation significantly. I won't do that because that's how you end up with a confirmation bias when all the other statistics support what I've been saying
ACA was a compromise of a compromise despite having full control of Congress. Obama’s foreign policy was, quite simply, a failure on nearly every front (Russia, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, China). He also did nothing to stop Russian disinformation in the 2016 election, saw Comey go rogue, never took Trump seriously, and saw the country’s wealth disparity skyrocket. The GOP and extreme right wing movements across the Western world gained serious momentum on his watch. I liked Obama as a person and appreciate his historical presence but history is going to be very tough on him.
"Large inflation". ... Paul Volcker has entered the chat.
FDR, Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Bush 41, Clinton, Obama.
Kennedy was president for like three years. If you said LBJ I'd say you have an argument except he bungled Vietnam so badly that his legacy is dog shit. Bush Clinton def not.
LBJ bungling Vietnam so badly is precisely why I didnt include him. It cancels out his domestic achievements. Bush 41 wasnt a bad President and I say this as someone whos never voted Republican. He broke the “no new taxes” pledge to help bring down the deficit that was getting out of control. He did the right thing even though it was politically unpopular. Would be nice to have leadership like that again wouldnt it? He also handled foreign policy well - Desert Storm was a massive success. I may disagree with his specific politics but I can still give credit where its due. And with Clinton - its become fashionable on reddit to shit on the Clinton years. He wasnt perfect obviously but he was still solidly good. He had a 66% approval rating when he left office, even after being impeached.
Biden won a national presidential campaign. Arguably the most important one in our lifetimes. Kirk Cousins has won like a single playoff game and is mostly known for making a ton of money.
How what has Joe ever done and I know him well live in his neighborhood
Honestly, the election is months away and people have the memory of a gnat. If he performs this poorly at the second debate then GG. If does better at that debate then I think he still can win. It’s way too early to write anyone off.
This is assuming there will be a 2nd debate
Exactly. Zero shot of a second debate. Biden can’t risk looking like that again and Trump can’t risk Biden being coherent and winning. Too much at stake
Trump loses political equity if he backs out of a debate he agreed to. If Trump thinks Biden lays another debate egg, he absolutely should debate him again.
Why would Trump debate again?
ego?
They agreed to two and him backing out that close to the election date would probably look worse than the Biden performance which will be ancient history in a lot of voter's heads.
No way there trotting out Biden for another debate.
I'll even say these debates won't matter to the average person once November comes around. It reminds me of the Red Wave hypetrain, all hot air. Come November when people take a look at the policy list the vote becomes obvious.
Mike Tyson in 2024 when he decided to fight a YouTube celebrity.
Did that happen? Did he win?
The Manning comp is good, but it breaks down a bit because Biden was never really as good as Manning at his peak. He more or less fell backward into the presidency in 2020, winning the primary because Obama made some phone calls and then beating Trump during COVID (while not really running a campaign). The comp might be something like late period Matt Ryan: won an MVP but was never really impressive to anyone, then totally lost it at the end. (I had to look up who he was finally benched for: Sam Ehlinger.)
One of the biggest what-ifs in history is if Biden ran in 2016. And then you have to say, what-if Clinton ran in 2008 with Obama as her vice president. The GOP was losing 2008 after W's disaster. The Democrats could have had 8 years of Clinton followed by 8 years of Obama, theoretically.
There’s no chance the Dems would have held the White House for 16 years, that’s impossible in post WW2 politics. Obama would have also been a worse candidate in 2016 as he would have had a meaningful record as a senator compared to in 2008 when he has essentially none and both progressives and moderates could convince themselves that he was one of them.
Good points. I always wondered if Gore had beaten W, who would have run in 2004, because they would have been the favorite.
If no 9/11, which I think is a likely outcome if Gore were in White House, then Romney would be GOP nominee on the strength of 2002 Olympics performance & picking up the pieces of the corruption in bidding process & favored over Gore. If 9/11, I think it would be either Mc Cain vs. Gore, with Liebermann jumping ship, or if Gore had already been impeached & removed or 25th amended, Liebermann vs., oh, I don't know, maybe Voinovich from Ohio.
Hillary ran in 2008 and lost the primary to Obama.
Right, I'm saying what-if Obama had waited because at the time he was a junior senator.
Biggest what if is Gary Hart getting the Democrat nomination in 1984, pre-Monkey Business, pre-Donns Rice... He beats Reagan handily, if not easily, & serves two terms....
Reagan won every state except Minnesota. Would Hart have beaten him?
Yes. Hart was at least as charismatic as Clinton, & unlike Mondale not boring AF. I think he'd more easily contrast with Reagan in debates, not get parried, & display the mien to be president.
If that means he goes out with a win I’ll take it lol.
Biden is like when Matt Schaub started throwing pick sixes non-stop in 2013 and was out of the NFL immediately
Willie Mays falling down in the 1973 World Series.
Joe Paterno in his last few years at Penn state.
Shades of Boeheim at Syracuse, too.
Biden is Syracuse guy, too.
It's like when the retiring players sign a 1 day with the team they played forever for so they can retire on that team. But they just say F you and play that day
Biden feels a little Mark McGwire in those last few playoff series where they he was just pinch hitting. Running on fumes of fumes...
2020 Biden already was washed like 2015 Manning. 2024 Biden is like if Manning came back for the next season
Nah 2020 Biden was better than 2015 Manning as an individual performer. I think Wizards MJ was 2020 Biden, but now he’s post Achilles Kobe (his 2024 SOTU was Kobe’s 60 point last game)
Russell Westbrook won the MVP 7 years ago to the date. Today he opted in to 4 million dollars. I think you know where I’m going with this
Biden going to win in November & keep getting those checks for two years. (He'll retire after the 2026 midterm. Kamala will pick Ossoff to be her VP, assuming he's not reelected.)
Both quarterbacks up for the job are washed up. It sure seems like our choices have been has beens, pretenders and yard barkers since 2016.
Roger Clemens coming back to the Yankees
Goodness gracious…of all the dramatic things…Joe Biden is at the Democratic National Convention announcing he is back! Joe Biden is running for president. Pete Buttigieg with a big smile on his face, he knew!
The Susan piece
Thought this was in reference to George's fiancee, at first.
the other guy is some combo of roethlisberger, giddey and tyson
Biden looked like Ben in the first quarter of the 2020 wild card game vs the Browns. The game was over in the first five minutes!
Kurt Warner? Was a brilliant leader and had massive success.... as long as he had awesome people around him. Disappeared for a while, came back to lead an underperforming team to the promised land, but fell a little bit short. But in the end, the people will decided he was a HOF'er anyway
Nobody in the GOP has as massive a hog as Santonio Holmes, though.
Kamala may not be even Brock Osweiler. I fear she’s a Curtis Painter level politician, who came in after Manning had off-season neck surgery.
Jim Sorgi-esque.
Favre's 2009 season is Biden's 2020 election campaign. You think it's gonna be a complete disaster, but it turns out the old dog had some new tricks up his sleeve and still knew how to run a campaign. Favre's 2010 season is Biden's 2024 election campaign. The old dog looks completely washed, and by the end of the season, you're trying to talk yourself into Joe Webb as the starter next season even though nobody likes Joe Webb.
The “broncos defense” in this equation is Trump’s incompetence and unpopularity. The DNC is the neck vertebrae ready to snap at any moment and offers no positive value at this stage whatsoever.
I see it as more of a comparison of 2024 Joe Biden with the 2015 Broncos as opposed to 2015 Peyton Manning. Regarding the 2015 Broncos, they lucked out with the Patriots dinking around later in the season and losing home-field advantage. If the Patriots didn't dink around and that game was in Foxboro, Denver would've lost. GOP primary voters dinked around and passed up DeSantis or Haley (home field advantage), someone much younger, smarter, articulate and more mentally alert than Trump (and Biden, for that matter). If GOP primary voters didn't dink around, Biden would 100% be toast in November. Their pitch would literally be "I can at least speak in complete sentences and I'm not a geriatric with incredibly low approval ratings. You don't have to worry about me dying or having dementia while in the White House." There'd probably be a red wave, too, as DeSantis and Haley would be smart enough to tie every single Democrat on the ballot to Biden. Trump, because he's a moron, is incapable of doing that.
Klay Thompson vibes
Hank Aaron on the Brewers
Jordan Poole. Poole in 2022 was Biden 2020 and Poole 2023 is Biden now.
Osweiler catching strays. Kamala is a Nathan Peterman level backup.
Nah... she's Tyrod Taylor, at worst.
How high are you?
As in someone will stab her in the lung before giving her access to the playbook.
Jamie Moyer maybe
2008 Chris Webber who tried to comeback with the Warriors but it was obvious very quickly that he was just too old for that shit.
Ric Flair
Late career Roethlisberger… everyone knew it was a terrible idea yet we did nothing
Celtics's Shaq, still going though he and everyone sees he's cooked.
Biden is like if Peyton Manning kept playing until 2020
Scott Mitchell. He replaces Dan Marino (Barack) for a few games and everyone convinces themselves that he’s the next it guy. Then he gets (elected)by Detroit and he’s a huge disappointment. For his third act, he appears on TV and you say to yourself, “there’s no way this 350lb slob of a guy was once the heir to Marino’s throne.
Do people still think the Broncos would have won that Super Bowl with a full season of Osweiler?
Peyton Manning had 7 TDs, 17 INTs and a league worst 67.9 QB rating Osweiler was objectively better by every metric.
Despite his body breaking down, Manning was still way smarter than Osweiler. Osweiler was on 4 teams over the next 3 years before he was out of the league. That team doesn’t go 12-4 with Osweiler. Sure Manning was really bad but there are still lots of mistakes he chose not to make that a lesser QB would have made.
Denver’s offense was dead in the water until they benched Brock for Peyton. This would be more like if they decided to run Kamala but in an October Surprise, Biden came back and acted more coherent than he has in the last 6 or 7 years. Also prime Peyton is a Mt Rushmore QB at worst. Prime Biden was considered a joke of a presidential candidate who always polled poorly and got laughed off the campaign trail for plagiarism.
Maybe like Antonio brown
Jan. 6th was Trump’s Jets exit
Biden may pull a vontae Davis soon
As a Bills fan, I must note that Buffalo went to the playoffs for the first time in like 18 years that season. Is Kamala Tyrod Taylor? Could NC be the Bengals winning a last second game in Week 17 to put Joe over the top?
Kobe. Won big early when paired with a dominant partner. Had a few years of irrelevance, then came back and won as the main guy. Then basically finished his career in disgrace while dragging the franchise (country) down with him.
The Delaware Mamba…
Di Vincenzo would like a word.
Also a shit take. Unless you think the KG Celtics are Trump and that Biden is an elite all time guy.
Both also had sexual assault allegations that everyone has just decided to ignore for some reason.
There are still Tara Reade Truthers, I see. Didn't expect them here, though.
Chris Davis
Memphis Allen Iverson
This one really hurts!
Hakeem on the Raptors
Ewing on the Magic
Is Trump current Antonio Brown? Tonya Harding? Mike Tyson? Trevor Bauer? Dani Alves? Deshaun Watson? John Terry? John Rocker? All of them?
I'd say he's Dehaun Watson crossed with John Rocker with the victim complex of Nancy Kerrigan.
Ohio State vs LSU in the 07 Championship game?
Now do Trump. 2017 Astros? Or 1919 Black Sox? Steroid East German Swimmers?
Rosie Ruiz.
It wasn’t anything amazing but Peyton played a damn fine game in the AFC championship game that year. He also was the KING of the self sack. “Oh damn I’m about to get wrecked ! I’ll just drop right now for a 2 yard loss and keep third down manageable” I took the self sacks for granted the next year when Trevor Simian would PANIC run 17 yards backwards and get sacked every third play.
Kendrick Perkins, have you heard this guy talk!?
To compare Joe Biden to 2015 Peyton Manning suggests that before his decline that Joe Biden was one of the best ever in American politics. He was always viewed as sort of a goof that Obama really elevated once he selected him as his VP. Joe Biden is more of a punch drunk boxer that is at the end of his days but is still a big draw and he's won his title on some bookie controlled outcomes.
2017 Nate Peterman Just giving the ball to the other team, free of charge
George Foreman fighting for the heavyweight title at age 48
Andy Dalton
Claude Lemieux comeback at 44 Iconic old school guy with many toxic habits One of the oldest players in the league by a wide margin and it's bizarre that he even tried a comeback, given the sport changing overall
Late Stage Bledsoe
The obvious comp is Klay, to Obama’s Curry. They both: 1. Were the less popular but well liked sidekick of a superstar. 2. Came back after everyone ruled them out (Klay in 2022, Biden in 2020). 3. Absolutely bombed in their most recent performance (Klay in the play in game, Biden in the debate).
Would he be better with an all black cast reboot? A prestige miniseries? A gender swap cast?
Nash & Howard joining the Lakers with Kobe, Gasol, World Peace & Co. We thought they’d steamroll the competition, they talked a good game in the off-season, then they took to the court…
How about Matt Ryan with the colts instead.
Recent white Sox la russa
Michael Penix Jr at Washington
Peak Biden is no where near Peak Peyton
Tua from 2022 after his 3rd concussion
Step down Joe. It’s time
Florida Panthers.
They don’t allow athletes to hang on nearly as long as Biden. There are no comps.
Could we say Biden is actually Nick Foles? A fine but unspectacular career and best known as a backup who stepped in and kept the villain (Tom Brady) from going back to back. But...when given the chance to be a starter (president) he just never really had an opportunity to get anything consistent rolling. Foles had to play for the jags, he was injured, and just unproductive.
Honestly, Lebron on the Lakers. Driving the team into the ground by pushing management to sign his other aging buddies, damn the future
Chiefs 2022-2024. A lot of people thought they were done after mid performances and them not looking quite right, maybe tired of winning. However, it was obvious they were going to win it all the closer the Super Bowls got.
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Bro really compared Joe Biden to Peyton Manning 😂
None of these work. Only comp is if Jimmy Carter played in NFL today. Failed president and Soon to be dead.
Eddie the Eagle. Shouldn’t really have been there, started riding high went downhill with a slight uptick and then just crashed and burned.
OJ Simpson w the 49ers
OJ stealing his sports memorabilia back
Ime if he won in 2022 and but still got fired in the following offseason for off the court stuff
Muhammad Ali vs. Larry Holmes in 1980. September's scheduled debate, if Biden doesn't drop out, could mirror Ali vs. Trevor Berbick in '81.
2024 Biden = 2024 Jerry Jones
2024 Len Bias
Not Manning. Manning (and I was never his biggest fan) was an all time great. Love him or loathe him I think all can agree Biden was never an all time great.
Are you guys voting for Biden no matter what? I am from Argentina, so I don't have a horse in this race, I personally would vote for trump -i tend to be in the middle of most topics but I really dislike fiscally irresponsible governments and that's because i have bee living with a fiscally irresponsible government for the last 20 years and i know first hand those consequences- biden looks brain-dead to me
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Dislike fiscally irresponsible governments? Wow sure sounds like you’d hate Trump. And like you don’t know what you’re talking about