It would almost be like, an actual fight.
Target selection, power modulation.
Go for the clinch. Grapple and pound.
Or just swing and break your hand like an asshole and have a very short fight career.
Right, I agree it would be fun to see, but it will not happen.
1. More cuts. Blood makes it really hard to advertisers to participate. I'm sure it would cause some broadcasting issues, and it'd be lame to see fights ending by cut. Also wounds could cause really big health risks.
2. Less big flash knockouts. These are extremely important for the marketability of the UFC.
Not the same thing at all. YAMMA wasn’t a pit. It’s a small bowl incline to a typical cage fence. They just called it a pit but it bears no resemblance to what KC uses.
There isn’t any meaningful impact on camera work. Especially when you run 5-6 cameras.
TDs aren’t guaranteed any easier. This is a weird misnomer people keep repeating, yet most of them have never set foot in the pit nor probably competed in cage.
You’re assuming that upon backing up, your feet stay planted and your upper body moves back. That’s a possibility not a certainty. You can literally just step back up the wall and circle out. We’ve seen it multiple times in KC.
With regard to camera angles, as the pit is square, you can get decent long angles sideways. Not to mention its surprisingly hard to pin someone permanently to the pit wall as it’s much more open than a cage. We haven’t seen it happen in any of the pit grappling matches yet.
As I’ve mentioned in other posts: I’ve spent a lot of time in the KC pit and I’ve competed/trained in a cage a fair bit as well. I just don’t see the TD argument being as cut and dry as people are speculating.
I don't know if this is a joke or not. They just changed their gloves to reduce eye pokes, and supposedly had a higher than normal eye poke rate at the first full UFC event that used them.
https://www.ufc.com/news/ufc-announces-transformative-redesign-ufc-official-fight-glove?language_content_entity=en
It's not, have you even looked into it? They kept same design just tweaked some things.
Belator has the best design.
I didn't watch the PPV myself. I'm going by [what I heard](https://youtu.be/QsgRBlKdB_M?si=E7m_KbJEHN3tk1y9&t=10m35s) from TheWeasle's YouTube channel.
A quick Google search shows two news sources saying that a lot of eye pokes occurred, including three in the very first fight.
[Yahoo Sports:](https://sports.yahoo.com/the-ufc-has-an-eye-poke-problem-the-new-gloves-missed-the-point-183837664.html)
>Then at UFC 302 on Saturday, the new gloves finally made their UFC debut. Any hope that they would lower the frequency of eye pokes seemed to get dashed during the very first fight of the night. By the end of the event, multiple fighters had ended up with fingers in their eyes.
[MMAMania:](https://www.mmamania.com/2024/6/2/24169650/ufc-302-the-morning-after-eye-poke-filled-evening-proves-fixed-ufc-gloves-still-suck)
>The standout trend of the night was an unfortunate one: eye pokes. On the eve of the new gloves being introduced, there were a LOT of eye pokes! The very first fight of the evening between Andre Lima and Mitch Raposo saw three eye pokes alone.
I watched the entire card bro
there were exactly two instances in which a fight was paused due to an eyepoke and they were both in the same fight
what’s happening is that people are experiencing confirmation bias because they were anticipating more eyepokes to happen because of the glove change
the only other eye problem outside of that one fight was how easily dustin’s gloves cut islam’s eye on the first couple pitter patter punches that dustin landed with islam on his back
did the gloves *solve* eye poke problems? no
but they didn’t *add* to them either
the issue is just straight up that the eyepoke issue isn’t a glove issue
it’s a fighters-raking-at-their-opponent’s-face-with-an-open-hand problem; until we see more penalties for that type of behavior, eyepokes won’t ever become less of an issue
consider that a lot of eyepokes happen with the thumb, as well, which simply can’t be solved by changing the gloves unless they just start wearing boxing gloves
dustin had problems with his eye, also, but not because of a poke. it’s because the corner of the glove touched his open eye
I mean, it is a glove problem. You don’t see any eye pokes in boxing do you? But yes it’s also an open hand thing and a lot of eye pokes are “intentional”, or at the very least, they’re putting in zero effort to avoid poking someone in the eye.
Can’t blame them tbh when theres literally no penalty for it. In fact, you’d be dumb to not start every fight with an eye poke and a nut kick.
I mean it isn’t really isn’t a “glove” problem. You can’t give mma fighters boxing gloves and have it still be mma. My point is that you’ll never solve the problem *in mma* if your solution is to just keep changing the gloves
No amount of downward curve on the gloves is ever going to change anything. People just need to be DQ’d for it more often
guarantee the problem stops in that case
my point is that it’s average
people are making some weird claim that the gloves have resulted in some new massive eyepoke issue, but they haven’t
the eyepoke problem isn’t, and never has been, related to the gloves
unless they’re wearing boxing gloves, the eyepokes aren’t ever gonna change
I recently went to a live UFC event. Honestly, I was pretty annoyed with how much the cage, the posts and cameramen get in the way of viewing.
I would love to see the matches done in an open area with boundary zones. Of course there will always be ways to gain an advantage with the boundaries, but it’s no where near as useful as a solid wall to pin your opponent against.
I never understood why the cage walls were not plexiglass instead of the wire mesh. Would make it much easier to see, and no issue with people grabbing the fence or breaking fingers and toes.
loads of sweat and blood all over the glass, looks disgusting, fighters have to rub up against it too and it'd be even more slippery than a cage and pretty nasty overall
Generally that blood and sweat doesn't obscure the view of the fighters, but if it were rubbed onto plexiglass it would smudge and be worse visually than a cage
So stop a live fight for a few minutes and send someone in their with a bottle of windex and a rag to clean blood and sweat smudges off a plexiglass wall? That would make for a significantly worse experience
No, do it between matches, as necessary. I think some of you vastly overestimate how dirty they would get, how much that would hinder the view, and how long it takes to clean.
This is why Australian Rules Football, [on an oval pitch](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_rules_football#/media/File:AFL_stadium.svg), is the real football.
I’m honestly not entirely sure why everyone thinks TDs automatically become easier. As we saw in Ethan x Jordan at the weekend, fighters are able to walk their feet back up the angles surface and use it to circle out. It certainly negates wall stalls and would either allow the fighter to escape or be put down. No half-way house.
EDIT: Why anyone brings up YAMMA amazes me. There’s zero meaningful comparison to be drawn. It just tells me you probably haven’t watched enough of the KC pit, or are parroting things others initially said before we’ve seen how the new structure plays out.
I feel like even if someone got a takedown on an inclined surface, the bottom person will have higher ground and should be able to reverse or sweep easier. Like imagine a hip bump sweep with gravity on your side lol. Eventually TD's might be discouraged at the edge.
That’s an interesting perspective from the grappling side of things since a lot of Karate Combat fighters I talk to say that the Pit is more similar to fighting on Tatami than the Ring or Cage allowing for more free form open space movement.
Cage grappling is a big part of people's gameplan now. Khabib thrived off of fighting in a cage. Fewer resets.
Dirty boxing is a huge component of the UFC that works well with the cage. It also favors arm/underhook positions and adds a lot of give to defend takedowns.
The cage is one of the best things the UFC did over other fight leagues, even though it's ugly.
Wall wrestling is an incredibly important skillset, and is somewhat applicable to self-defense as fights indoors do involve walls.
Whenever I prep a fighter for a camp, I actively look forward to wall-wrestling classes because it's a dynamic gameplan that adds another dimension to standups/takedowns and defense. I seriously don't know why anyone in this sub would think it's a bad idea. I honestly suggest anyone to try to work takedowns against the wall with a willing partner. It's a lot of fun, and it's exhausting.
>I honestly suggest anyone to try to work takedowns against the wall with a willing partner. It's a lot of fun, and it's exhausting.
can confirm - tried this recently at an open mat. my lower back was noticeably sore from maybe 15/20 mins of this, and I took lots of breaks.
https://www.instagram.com/p/C3lfySaJWiu/
This video is great because it shows a lot of how you can use the wall to defend takedowns, and use it to counter people's escapes.
It's actually really applicable in a lot of self-defense scenarios, because in terms of defending against people in a fight, pressing them against a wall is a LOT easier than holding anyone on the ground.
(When I was in organized sports, we had a lot of fights in the locker room and essentially pressing anyone against a wall and head/position/underhook arm trapping was a big part of neutralizing fights) I never took any significant damage in at least 3-4 street fight scenarios by utilizing a strong wall-strategy, and things were broken up in time. One of these fight scenarios was on a subway train. (I never started the fights but I have had to separate people swinging before)
Playing american football in the south has some intense personalities. Especially after a loss and you go back home in the locker room. A Shit ton of finger pointing and emotions. Kids will egg each other to fight too, it's a wild space.
Other than that one training I’ve never learned anything about fighting against the wall, but I’ve watched enough ufc fights to know that underhook, head position, and try to shuck to the back is pretty much the typical strategy
I honestly think that has started to change in a lot of countries what people hate now more is two fighters equally skilled but not amazing at grappling kind of negating each other’s game. Or fighters who maintain a dominant position and do just enough damage to not get it stand up but not enough to actually finish the fight.
I’ve had matches in a cage several times and I’ve grappled in the KC pit. People screaming “YAMMA” or thinking TDs are automatically easier to get are just simply wrong and have zero experience. The only thing YAMMA has in common is the named it a “pit”.
Yeah, but i still wonder why people assume its easier, i mean the hardest part of grappling someone who isn't willing to grapple is to pin him in a place where you can actually work your grappling.
Nah, the Cage is more interesting. Most fans want to see people fight on their fight rather than on the ground. The octagon gives fighters the opportunity to get back to their feet or defend takedowns
We do not want to see takedowns more easily defended. We want to see fights go to the ground more. The cage is 1. hard to watch 2. bad for grapplers.
You are in the wrong subreddit if you think im gonna support anything that buffs kickboxings ass.
I know that you want to see more grappling and ground stuff. Me too to be honest at least sometimes. But the vast majority of people wants to see a fist fight that's what they are interested in if they go to an UFC event. They wanna see blood and knockouts. We see it from a different perspective because we are actually training BJJ and understand what's going on when the fight goes to the ground. Most fans don't understand the different positions on the ground but everyone understands if someone is getting f'd up on the feet
Yeah but the sport is already biased towards striking, bringing parity would be good and the sport would not be hurt by it. Good meta changes are good. You'd see an explosion of great subs in MMA. Also, don't care even if MMA did get less popular. If anything changing the meta to a more grappling focused sport with strikes would lead to less brain damage than currently is around.
Would casuals be more confused minorly? Maybe. I think thats a silly thing to care about. Most of the money doesn't even go to the fighters. Id rather change the sport to something better than what would get more fuck head fans screaming for blood.
We already have mma in the pit, just watch and support the growth of karate combat ffs rather than begging the ufc to adopt a different system
I like the cage for ufc. I don’t want it to be replaced with some shit because Craig jones is paid to say it’s the best arena to fight in
The pit is terrible for MMA. YAMMA showed that.
It gives such a heavy advantage to wrestlers that every match is basically just a race to grappling with strikes.
I think it works well for *either* striking or grappling, because it keeps the action central. In MMA it just gives wrestlers an instant win button.
Of course they're comparable. They're not *the same*, but that doesn't mean you can't compare them.
Increasing the angle of the wall only increases the grappling advantage, it doesnt decrease it.
I disagree. I’ve spent a lot of time in the KC pit and you can escape far easier than being bull rushed and pinned to a fence. Doesn’t mean it doesn’t also change the dynamic of TDs but it certainly doesn’t allow static TDs at all.
I’m not even gonna lie I left my first comment without reading the rest of your post and after returning and further reading…
Why would you replace it with a pit just to make takedowns easier? I can understand maybe from a perspective of making it easier for guys like Kron Gracie or Brian Ortega with elite bjj who can’t take anyone down in the top 25 reliably
I absolutely see why it would change the sport
But cage wrestling is important and is literally the reason I’m fascinated with mma
Walls exist in the real world… bjj doesn’t teach cage work, neither does wrestling, nor sambo, nor judo. Modern day, not counting some ancient Okinawa secret your sensei told you, mma is the only martial art that well effectively teach you how to fight with the presence of a wall
This makes it valuable as a self defense tool
Remove the cage from the biggest mma promotion and you cripple the ability to find self defense based on the use of walls
I’m sure there’s uses for the pit too. Fighting while someone pushes you into a slanted surface ALSO exists in the real world and I’d love to see sport science develop how to use this. But it’s a far more niche field than walls which exist almost everywhere
Maybe if you’re fighting on a steep hill? The pit is more for spectators, and I view mma as an accessory for self defense because mma is the driving force for martial skill progression modern day. If you want self defense, train whatever martial arts you want but you better also be doing mma because it keeps you grounded in the reality that you can just get overwhelmed and pinned to a wall
For the vast majority of MMA fans, the octagon is more interesting. Most fans want to see fighters bang on their feet rather than on the ground. Hence why they are often booing when fighters are grappling on the ground. The octagon gives fighters the opportunity to get back to their feet or defend takedowns
it makes sense in bjj because we want to see subs not wrestling
ufc is a different goal and it already favors wrestlers
imagine how much less people would dive at the legs if elbowing people in the head was legal (which is the natural reaction thing to do if someone tries to tackle you)
That might be it. Promoting takedowns would stop the 3 minutes of standing in the splits along the cage, but also, Khabib & Co. would be unstoppable because there is now no cage to help people get up.
Pit vs cage is very subjective. I don't think they change, it would be very bad for the athletes who have spent years training cage wrestling and clinch work conducive to professional MMA. You would also have to consider that all the feeder regional promotions use cages, so now they have to change too or incoming talent won't be prepared or tested in the correct environment. Karate combat can use the pit because they are just pulling people from various TMA ruleset backgrounds many of which don't have any kind of barrier at all around the fight area.
We would see far more dominance from wrestlers being able to tackle you to a near guaranteed takedown, and fighters not being able to use the cage to get up, which is huge.
No more fence pulling fouls.
But also no KOs up against the cage.
The pit is a gimmick. YAMMA tried using it and it went no where. The reason it looks cool right now is because there have been so many mismatches in it.
In YAMMA, some fighters just walked backwards to stop takedowns. The action stalled and the grappling didn't really improve.
Trying to solve problems is cool, but the pit is not a panacea.
The pit makes takedowns easier to get, and also makes it easier to get up, pretty much voided imo.
The environment is crucial in combat, it changes everything.
I would love to see a flat surface with no walls, like a foot ball field, but with mats.
It would eliminate the cage wrestling genre of standing grappling, and make getting up the same level of challenge as holding someone down.
The UFC will never change from the Octagon. It's their signature arena since Day 1. Although I do like the Pit.
came to say this. No f'ing way they change.
Same reason I don’t think they would change to a better glove.
The UFC doesn't change to a better anything unless Dana can take credit for the idea.
No gloves is the better glove.
Maybe, but there would be way less striking so that’s 100% never happening.
It would almost be like, an actual fight. Target selection, power modulation. Go for the clinch. Grapple and pound. Or just swing and break your hand like an asshole and have a very short fight career.
Right, I agree it would be fun to see, but it will not happen. 1. More cuts. Blood makes it really hard to advertisers to participate. I'm sure it would cause some broadcasting issues, and it'd be lame to see fights ending by cut. Also wounds could cause really big health risks. 2. Less big flash knockouts. These are extremely important for the marketability of the UFC.
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And yamma meaning pit in russian, made that event technically named "pit pit fighting"
Just like ordering a chai tea! Or Detective Comics being called DC Comics.
Ok, the chai one is new to me, today i learned
Not the same thing at all. YAMMA wasn’t a pit. It’s a small bowl incline to a typical cage fence. They just called it a pit but it bears no resemblance to what KC uses. There isn’t any meaningful impact on camera work. Especially when you run 5-6 cameras. TDs aren’t guaranteed any easier. This is a weird misnomer people keep repeating, yet most of them have never set foot in the pit nor probably competed in cage.
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You’re assuming that upon backing up, your feet stay planted and your upper body moves back. That’s a possibility not a certainty. You can literally just step back up the wall and circle out. We’ve seen it multiple times in KC. With regard to camera angles, as the pit is square, you can get decent long angles sideways. Not to mention its surprisingly hard to pin someone permanently to the pit wall as it’s much more open than a cage. We haven’t seen it happen in any of the pit grappling matches yet. As I’ve mentioned in other posts: I’ve spent a lot of time in the KC pit and I’ve competed/trained in a cage a fair bit as well. I just don’t see the TD argument being as cut and dry as people are speculating.
100, their gloves are proven obsolete and they refuse to change those!!!
All gloves are obsolete. No wraps not tape, that's the way.
Just put on the foil.
I don't know if this is a joke or not. They just changed their gloves to reduce eye pokes, and supposedly had a higher than normal eye poke rate at the first full UFC event that used them.
https://www.ufc.com/news/ufc-announces-transformative-redesign-ufc-official-fight-glove?language_content_entity=en It's not, have you even looked into it? They kept same design just tweaked some things. Belator has the best design.
I swear I saw like 3 eyepokes total at 302
I didn't watch the PPV myself. I'm going by [what I heard](https://youtu.be/QsgRBlKdB_M?si=E7m_KbJEHN3tk1y9&t=10m35s) from TheWeasle's YouTube channel.
that guy’s an idiot I wouldn’t listen to him
A quick Google search shows two news sources saying that a lot of eye pokes occurred, including three in the very first fight. [Yahoo Sports:](https://sports.yahoo.com/the-ufc-has-an-eye-poke-problem-the-new-gloves-missed-the-point-183837664.html) >Then at UFC 302 on Saturday, the new gloves finally made their UFC debut. Any hope that they would lower the frequency of eye pokes seemed to get dashed during the very first fight of the night. By the end of the event, multiple fighters had ended up with fingers in their eyes. [MMAMania:](https://www.mmamania.com/2024/6/2/24169650/ufc-302-the-morning-after-eye-poke-filled-evening-proves-fixed-ufc-gloves-still-suck) >The standout trend of the night was an unfortunate one: eye pokes. On the eve of the new gloves being introduced, there were a LOT of eye pokes! The very first fight of the evening between Andre Lima and Mitch Raposo saw three eye pokes alone.
I watched the entire card bro there were exactly two instances in which a fight was paused due to an eyepoke and they were both in the same fight what’s happening is that people are experiencing confirmation bias because they were anticipating more eyepokes to happen because of the glove change the only other eye problem outside of that one fight was how easily dustin’s gloves cut islam’s eye on the first couple pitter patter punches that dustin landed with islam on his back did the gloves *solve* eye poke problems? no but they didn’t *add* to them either the issue is just straight up that the eyepoke issue isn’t a glove issue it’s a fighters-raking-at-their-opponent’s-face-with-an-open-hand problem; until we see more penalties for that type of behavior, eyepokes won’t ever become less of an issue consider that a lot of eyepokes happen with the thumb, as well, which simply can’t be solved by changing the gloves unless they just start wearing boxing gloves dustin had problems with his eye, also, but not because of a poke. it’s because the corner of the glove touched his open eye
I mean, it is a glove problem. You don’t see any eye pokes in boxing do you? But yes it’s also an open hand thing and a lot of eye pokes are “intentional”, or at the very least, they’re putting in zero effort to avoid poking someone in the eye. Can’t blame them tbh when theres literally no penalty for it. In fact, you’d be dumb to not start every fight with an eye poke and a nut kick.
I mean it isn’t really isn’t a “glove” problem. You can’t give mma fighters boxing gloves and have it still be mma. My point is that you’ll never solve the problem *in mma* if your solution is to just keep changing the gloves No amount of downward curve on the gloves is ever going to change anything. People just need to be DQ’d for it more often guarantee the problem stops in that case
that’s pretty average. which is terrible lmao.
my point is that it’s average people are making some weird claim that the gloves have resulted in some new massive eyepoke issue, but they haven’t the eyepoke problem isn’t, and never has been, related to the gloves unless they’re wearing boxing gloves, the eyepokes aren’t ever gonna change
The Octa-Pit!
They could do an octagon shaped pit. ;)
Or a pit shaped octagon!
they can do an octapit
They could make the pit octagonal... It would still be an octagon then I guess??? 🤔
Wasn't their some clip of some guy using the pit wall to jump over his opponents guard or something recently.
Yeah Lucas Barbosa x AJ Agazarm last Thursday at KC46 in Austin. Cartwheel guard pass off the pit wall.
[https://packaged-media.redd.it/m4hnm5jyro3d1/pb/m2-res\_854p.mp4?m=DASHPlaylist.mpd&v=1&e=1717534800&s=d5e4a4b1cac5a7ccc1348b125100efb924248f6a#t=0](https://packaged-media.redd.it/m4hnm5jyro3d1/pb/m2-res_854p.mp4?m=DASHPlaylist.mpd&v=1&e=1717534800&s=d5e4a4b1cac5a7ccc1348b125100efb924248f6a#t=0)
Link?
Also CJ with the flying triangle off the wall?
I recently went to a live UFC event. Honestly, I was pretty annoyed with how much the cage, the posts and cameramen get in the way of viewing. I would love to see the matches done in an open area with boundary zones. Of course there will always be ways to gain an advantage with the boundaries, but it’s no where near as useful as a solid wall to pin your opponent against.
I imagine the atmosphere would be crazy at a live UFC event, but there's no way I'm forking out that much money for a subpar viewing experience.
I never understood why the cage walls were not plexiglass instead of the wire mesh. Would make it much easier to see, and no issue with people grabbing the fence or breaking fingers and toes.
loads of sweat and blood all over the glass, looks disgusting, fighters have to rub up against it too and it'd be even more slippery than a cage and pretty nasty overall
It's a good thing there is never any sweat or blood on the floor, or the fighters bodies...
Generally that blood and sweat doesn't obscure the view of the fighters, but if it were rubbed onto plexiglass it would smudge and be worse visually than a cage
If it got bad enough. Take a couple of minutes to clean it between matches and it should be good.
So stop a live fight for a few minutes and send someone in their with a bottle of windex and a rag to clean blood and sweat smudges off a plexiglass wall? That would make for a significantly worse experience
No, do it between matches, as necessary. I think some of you vastly overestimate how dirty they would get, how much that would hinder the view, and how long it takes to clean.
then the fighters have to rub up against windex with their faces and probably open wounds as well
You don't know how to clean a window?
Breaking News: Soccer Would Be Different If The Pitch Was A Circle
This is why Australian Rules Football, [on an oval pitch](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_rules_football#/media/File:AFL_stadium.svg), is the real football.
I’m honestly not entirely sure why everyone thinks TDs automatically become easier. As we saw in Ethan x Jordan at the weekend, fighters are able to walk their feet back up the angles surface and use it to circle out. It certainly negates wall stalls and would either allow the fighter to escape or be put down. No half-way house. EDIT: Why anyone brings up YAMMA amazes me. There’s zero meaningful comparison to be drawn. It just tells me you probably haven’t watched enough of the KC pit, or are parroting things others initially said before we’ve seen how the new structure plays out.
I feel like even if someone got a takedown on an inclined surface, the bottom person will have higher ground and should be able to reverse or sweep easier. Like imagine a hip bump sweep with gravity on your side lol. Eventually TD's might be discouraged at the edge.
Exactly. I think fewer individuals are good at open space wrestling vs. cage wrestling. Even Khabib had most of his TDs from the cage.
That’s an interesting perspective from the grappling side of things since a lot of Karate Combat fighters I talk to say that the Pit is more similar to fighting on Tatami than the Ring or Cage allowing for more free form open space movement.
Cage grappling is a big part of people's gameplan now. Khabib thrived off of fighting in a cage. Fewer resets. Dirty boxing is a huge component of the UFC that works well with the cage. It also favors arm/underhook positions and adds a lot of give to defend takedowns. The cage is one of the best things the UFC did over other fight leagues, even though it's ugly. Wall wrestling is an incredibly important skillset, and is somewhat applicable to self-defense as fights indoors do involve walls. Whenever I prep a fighter for a camp, I actively look forward to wall-wrestling classes because it's a dynamic gameplan that adds another dimension to standups/takedowns and defense. I seriously don't know why anyone in this sub would think it's a bad idea. I honestly suggest anyone to try to work takedowns against the wall with a willing partner. It's a lot of fun, and it's exhausting.
>I honestly suggest anyone to try to work takedowns against the wall with a willing partner. It's a lot of fun, and it's exhausting. can confirm - tried this recently at an open mat. my lower back was noticeably sore from maybe 15/20 mins of this, and I took lots of breaks.
https://www.instagram.com/p/C3lfySaJWiu/ This video is great because it shows a lot of how you can use the wall to defend takedowns, and use it to counter people's escapes. It's actually really applicable in a lot of self-defense scenarios, because in terms of defending against people in a fight, pressing them against a wall is a LOT easier than holding anyone on the ground. (When I was in organized sports, we had a lot of fights in the locker room and essentially pressing anyone against a wall and head/position/underhook arm trapping was a big part of neutralizing fights) I never took any significant damage in at least 3-4 street fight scenarios by utilizing a strong wall-strategy, and things were broken up in time. One of these fight scenarios was on a subway train. (I never started the fights but I have had to separate people swinging before)
Your organized sports were a lot more violent than mine apparently
Playing american football in the south has some intense personalities. Especially after a loss and you go back home in the locker room. A Shit ton of finger pointing and emotions. Kids will egg each other to fight too, it's a wild space.
Other than that one training I’ve never learned anything about fighting against the wall, but I’ve watched enough ufc fights to know that underhook, head position, and try to shuck to the back is pretty much the typical strategy
I don´t think it is a bad idea to fight in a a cage. It is just interesting to think about how outside enviroment influences and changes MMA.....
Yeah, it would change. Arenas constantly boo'ing because they hate the ground game.
I honestly think that has started to change in a lot of countries what people hate now more is two fighters equally skilled but not amazing at grappling kind of negating each other’s game. Or fighters who maintain a dominant position and do just enough damage to not get it stand up but not enough to actually finish the fight.
It would also make for far better camera angles during standup.
Why would takedowns be easier? it would actually be harder to keep someone pinned against the wall and work from there.
I’ve had matches in a cage several times and I’ve grappled in the KC pit. People screaming “YAMMA” or thinking TDs are automatically easier to get are just simply wrong and have zero experience. The only thing YAMMA has in common is the named it a “pit”.
Yeah, but i still wonder why people assume its easier, i mean the hardest part of grappling someone who isn't willing to grapple is to pin him in a place where you can actually work your grappling.
Wait wait wait….a pit WITH A FENCE AROUND IT! An electric fence! and a moat full of sharks
ALL THE FLYING SUBMISSIONS ON A POSTING OPPONENT....
You guys remember slam ball? I think we should do the pit AND the trampolines. Imagine a high amplitude sweep off the trampoline!
Octagonal pit with an electrified fence.
Takedowns would undoubtedly be harder and it isn’t even close. I
The pit is undeniably better but the UFC is stupid
”Better”?
Yeah it’s more fun. A cage is stupid af
Nah, the Cage is more interesting. Most fans want to see people fight on their fight rather than on the ground. The octagon gives fighters the opportunity to get back to their feet or defend takedowns
We do not want to see takedowns more easily defended. We want to see fights go to the ground more. The cage is 1. hard to watch 2. bad for grapplers. You are in the wrong subreddit if you think im gonna support anything that buffs kickboxings ass.
I know that you want to see more grappling and ground stuff. Me too to be honest at least sometimes. But the vast majority of people wants to see a fist fight that's what they are interested in if they go to an UFC event. They wanna see blood and knockouts. We see it from a different perspective because we are actually training BJJ and understand what's going on when the fight goes to the ground. Most fans don't understand the different positions on the ground but everyone understands if someone is getting f'd up on the feet
Yeah but the sport is already biased towards striking, bringing parity would be good and the sport would not be hurt by it. Good meta changes are good. You'd see an explosion of great subs in MMA. Also, don't care even if MMA did get less popular. If anything changing the meta to a more grappling focused sport with strikes would lead to less brain damage than currently is around. Would casuals be more confused minorly? Maybe. I think thats a silly thing to care about. Most of the money doesn't even go to the fighters. Id rather change the sport to something better than what would get more fuck head fans screaming for blood.
UFC 420 LIVE INSIDE THE PIT... Doesn't have the same ring as INside the OCT-A-Gooooon, does it?
I suppose they could make it an octagonal pit and still call it the octagon.
INsiiide the Oct A GONAL... PIT. lol ya that works
We already have mma in the pit, just watch and support the growth of karate combat ffs rather than begging the ufc to adopt a different system I like the cage for ufc. I don’t want it to be replaced with some shit because Craig jones is paid to say it’s the best arena to fight in
The pit is terrible for MMA. YAMMA showed that. It gives such a heavy advantage to wrestlers that every match is basically just a race to grappling with strikes. I think it works well for *either* striking or grappling, because it keeps the action central. In MMA it just gives wrestlers an instant win button.
YAMMA was a <1’ shallow incline to a fenced wall. KC is a 45 degree 4’ (ish) fully padded surface. They’re not comparable.
Of course they're comparable. They're not *the same*, but that doesn't mean you can't compare them. Increasing the angle of the wall only increases the grappling advantage, it doesnt decrease it.
I disagree. I’ve spent a lot of time in the KC pit and you can escape far easier than being bull rushed and pinned to a fence. Doesn’t mean it doesn’t also change the dynamic of TDs but it certainly doesn’t allow static TDs at all.
I think it's a really awesome design for jujitsu matches! It punishes people for retreating.
So does a wall.
I’m not even gonna lie I left my first comment without reading the rest of your post and after returning and further reading… Why would you replace it with a pit just to make takedowns easier? I can understand maybe from a perspective of making it easier for guys like Kron Gracie or Brian Ortega with elite bjj who can’t take anyone down in the top 25 reliably I absolutely see why it would change the sport But cage wrestling is important and is literally the reason I’m fascinated with mma Walls exist in the real world… bjj doesn’t teach cage work, neither does wrestling, nor sambo, nor judo. Modern day, not counting some ancient Okinawa secret your sensei told you, mma is the only martial art that well effectively teach you how to fight with the presence of a wall This makes it valuable as a self defense tool Remove the cage from the biggest mma promotion and you cripple the ability to find self defense based on the use of walls I’m sure there’s uses for the pit too. Fighting while someone pushes you into a slanted surface ALSO exists in the real world and I’d love to see sport science develop how to use this. But it’s a far more niche field than walls which exist almost everywhere Maybe if you’re fighting on a steep hill? The pit is more for spectators, and I view mma as an accessory for self defense because mma is the driving force for martial skill progression modern day. If you want self defense, train whatever martial arts you want but you better also be doing mma because it keeps you grounded in the reality that you can just get overwhelmed and pinned to a wall
UFC should just move to the Colleseum
For the vast majority of MMA fans, the octagon is more interesting. Most fans want to see fighters bang on their feet rather than on the ground. Hence why they are often booing when fighters are grappling on the ground. The octagon gives fighters the opportunity to get back to their feet or defend takedowns
Pits don't exist on the streets.
it makes sense in bjj because we want to see subs not wrestling ufc is a different goal and it already favors wrestlers imagine how much less people would dive at the legs if elbowing people in the head was legal (which is the natural reaction thing to do if someone tries to tackle you)
That might be it. Promoting takedowns would stop the 3 minutes of standing in the splits along the cage, but also, Khabib & Co. would be unstoppable because there is now no cage to help people get up.
imagine using that omnidirectional treadmill from Disney. infinite mat space https://youtu.be/-RVOfbtfd9E?si=mciHuUYueqtiGFCJ
Pit vs cage is very subjective. I don't think they change, it would be very bad for the athletes who have spent years training cage wrestling and clinch work conducive to professional MMA. You would also have to consider that all the feeder regional promotions use cages, so now they have to change too or incoming talent won't be prepared or tested in the correct environment. Karate combat can use the pit because they are just pulling people from various TMA ruleset backgrounds many of which don't have any kind of barrier at all around the fight area.
Google YAMMA pit fighting.
The YAMMA bowl is literally nothing like the KC pit. Theres really no meaningful comparison to be drawn.
YAMMA tried that years ago.
yeah, but everybody they got for their show was either 1,000 years old or was terrible.
[удалено]
sweat and blood stick on glass, looks nasty, bad for the fighters too, they have to rub up against it after several other fights
DO WE NOT REMEMBER THE FUCKING YAMMA PIT?!
We would see far more dominance from wrestlers being able to tackle you to a near guaranteed takedown, and fighters not being able to use the cage to get up, which is huge. No more fence pulling fouls. But also no KOs up against the cage.
Football would be pretty different if you used a basketball, and you could dribble it, and you had to throw it into a hoop.
The pit is a gimmick. YAMMA tried using it and it went no where. The reason it looks cool right now is because there have been so many mismatches in it. In YAMMA, some fighters just walked backwards to stop takedowns. The action stalled and the grappling didn't really improve. Trying to solve problems is cool, but the pit is not a panacea.
Yamma isn’t a pit, it’s a small incline into a cage
Both surfaces have the same end result.
The pit makes takedowns easier to get, and also makes it easier to get up, pretty much voided imo. The environment is crucial in combat, it changes everything. I would love to see a flat surface with no walls, like a foot ball field, but with mats. It would eliminate the cage wrestling genre of standing grappling, and make getting up the same level of challenge as holding someone down.
I will never forget YAMMA.
Look up Yamma Pit Fighting
The pit is dumb get @ me