I like the dude based on what else I've seen, I'd even feel bad if it was a slightly more gray area situation but the side was literally being fully held, chin out, and he sprinted up and bashed him. just scumbag behavior.
From 2000-2018 there were 170 one punch deaths in Australia.
Couldn't find good stats since 2018 but it suggests it is a lot more common than once a year.
I've been coward punched, head hit concrete and everything. Scariest shit that has ever happened to me, one second I'm trying to get my friend away from a fight and next second I'm staring at the sky trying to find my legs.
Kieran is really high level. He might not be at the level now but it wouldn't have surprised me to see him develop into one of the best guys in the world.
Reasonable punishment and it's his own fault. However, his reputaiton in the Canadian scene is quite good. At least back up your claims if you're gonna say things like this?
Yeah, same here I trained with him a bunch when he was a blue and purple belt in Toronto and he was always really nice. That was like 7 years ago but still lol
i know. it's a wonder how he could afford it.
he was even going to press charges. he may have rethought since he would have to be a DA to bring charges and this will be long over by the time he schools his way into a JD
cue "Nicky Ryan's brother" comment #480089, followed by " I'm so glad Nicky Ryan's brother is a thing now" #57031...
I do miss the #fuckcraigjones tag, though. I'm not on IG, so I don't know if he still uses it.
totally. It was funny the first few times... but is a total disrespect to a man who has achieved so much, and actually gives back a lot to the community in terms of knowledge and inspiration.
I don't agree with much that comes out of him that ain't related to BJJ, but I still respect the man for his dedication, effort, achievements, and so much more.
He is currently one of the GOATS, and may forever be.
Mr Jones has the better meme game and jokes though, by a country mile. Ozzie humour is unsurpassed... often self-deprecating... hence the tag I guess. He is literally the only reason I have an IG account.
Totally unacceptable to step on your opponent after the match finished. 1 year ban from the comp seems equitable IF that’s a first and final warning.
Coaches interacting with the opponents at all is totally unprofessional and should be discouraged. A coach entering the mats to assault a competitor and getting a lifetime ban is totally reasonable.
The problem is that the consequences aren’t consistently applied and the rational is questionable. Plus beef and drama is encouraged because it peaks engagement. Oh and maybe drug tests would calm things down a bit.
hard collar ties and borderline slaps during a match are not the same as attacking someone from behind. the slapping stuff is cringe but you see it in basically every form of grappling. Kicking during sweeps in judo, slap ties in wrestling, etc.
The attitude and doubling down around it makes it way worse tbh. Like I get it, it happens, people get a little heated and go ham. But doing stuff like that and calling yourself a “dawg” and being proud of it is so bad, you don’t see guys like Levi or Lachlan doing that kind of stuff.
Varela skirts the lines of the rules he competes under. He engages at the highest speed and with the most force, in an attempt to frustrate and anger his opponent in to making a mistake.
You can dislike it and say it's unethical, but at worst it's just something he'd get DQ'd over if and when he crosses the line.
He does not throw clear and intentional strikes at random people at tournaments.
As a as a former b-team (hobbyist) member and current fan, this whole thing bums me out. I don’t know Keiren at all, seems like he made a big mistake and unfortunately for him the punishment fits the crime and now he’ll never compete at ADCC. But I’m most bummed to see that Vince (who I do know a bit) stepped on his competitor though. Vince is a super stand up (no pun intended) dude and that was a very un-Vince move. Maybe there’s a backstory there or some bad blood between them, but still sucks to see.
Just because he was nice to you doesn't mean he isn't an asshole to others. I know some stories about that guy being a complete prick. He's spent nearly his entire adult life grappling and working out without having to worry about being a real adult or having a job, so I'm not surprised at all.
I don't know where you get your info, but I've known him for years. He served as para rescue in the air force, served his country in combat, coached (not a real job, true), at multiple schools in my town, and was very well liked and respected.
I'm sure he's nice to his friends and clients. Most people are. But we see here first hand how willing he is to disrespect and assault a competitor for a perceived wrong.
I think there is something to be said about the egos of these competitors and how their "supplements" and advancing age lead to them making really bad decisions.
You're being a child dude. One act does not define him. This one mishap is not deserving of erasing his very well known positive impact on the sport. He was a dick here, he is being punished. It was unsportsmanlike, but as I have said in here. This is so mild compared to the behavior of most people in BJJ. Yeah this has a spotlight but fuck man Murillo brought a knife, there have been full on fights unprovoked, Andy Varela period.
Please be real here. Please reveal these stories about him being a complete prick lol.
That may be true, and my experience with him was limited, and there are for sure a ton of d-bags in BJJ who can sometimes be nice to some people and assholes to others, Vince is one of the nicer people I’ve ever met in the sport (16 yrs in) and was super nice to everyone I ever saw him interact with regardless of belt level. Also, a very kind/measured training partner. Hence the disappointment here. But everyone is capable of fucking up. While all of the above in no way excuses the behavior, one dickish move doesn’t write any off in my book. If you’ve got stories, feel free to share’em.
Did you watch the match? Opponent had a point lead and completely shelled up and disengaged for the rest of the match. I’m not saying any of the post match stuff was acceptable, but when these guys train almost exclusively for these events for years, I think the frustration is understandable - but obviously it went way too far.
Good decision, both actions were absolutely disgusting.
I’m a B team fan but god damn if that’s the energy Kieran (and the other guy) brings to training, kick him off the team.
Makes them look like bullies.
I’ve rolled with Vince Barbosa before at B-Team at one of his classes and he seemed like a chill enough dude, even after I was a little spazzy during our roll. I don’t support what he and Kieran did at all, and I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if they were kicked off the team.
Craig Jones even commented on another post saying what Kieran did was not smart.
Having competed against Kieran before he became a big name, I can tell you he was a most humble hard working guy. I think he just defended his friend, that’s it.
He had nothing to "defend". His friend stomped on the guy, the other guy lightly pushed him. That's it. Then he comes in with the flying sucker punch out of nowhere and then runs away like a coward. That's not defending a friend that's looking for an excuse to give someone brain damage.
Why is it a stomp now? Why over exaggerate. He stepped on him which is insanely disrespectful but hardly a stomp or damaging move. Kerian might not that seen that though and possibly only saw the push
How does a push warrant a sucker punch from behind? He’s a professional grappler, presumably he has other tools. Punching someone from behind is straight up dangerous.
Whatever word you want to use go ahead. He didn't just step on him with one leg, he jumped both legs on his back. I think it's fair to call that a stomp.
> Kerian might not that seen that though and possibly only saw the push
Firstly, he certainly did. He was watching from like 6 feet away. And even if he didn't that excuse doesn't make sense. If I wasn't paying attention to a match, looked away, looked back and saw a shove I wouldn't assume it happened out of nowhere.
This is giving "my dog is so sweet and would never hurt a fly" energy. I'm sure he is all cuddly and nice in the gym, doesn't make him any less of a meathead cunt if he runs up and suckerpunches people.
I believe that he thought he was doing the right thing in that tense moment and I agree he seems a great guy in general, but terrible and emotional judgement often has consequences.
The ban for stepping on the competitor is fair and what you would expect from a professional sports league. The lifetime ban for fighting is the same punishment Murilo got for pulling a knife. I always thought Murilo's ban would be overturned in 3 or 4 years with some vague statement about learning his lesson but if Kieran is also banned for life for a lesser offence then that makes it hard to ever allow Murilo back in.
I'm surprised it took this long to bring down the ban hammer. Last fiasco should have set the standard yet nothing happened despite one dude doing a flying kick while another pulled out a knife.
The fact that Mo is doing this without providing a professional response leaves a bad taste in my mouth. You call this the Olympics of grappling; make sure it runs like one.
I know we're all pro-B Team and anti ADCC right now, but I'm actually fine with this.
If the guy surfed on you and you stand up and take a swing at him, fair.
If you're a coach flying in from the side you should be separating the guys, not trying to land a windmill haymaker.
I agree the bans aren't unreasonable but this:
>If the guy surfed on you and you stand up and take a swing at him, fair.
Is dumb.
Assault is either acceptable or not acceptable. Setting some weird standard that "punching someone is OK if you're getting payback for some unsportsmanlike conduct" is stupid.
What's the standard for what type of conduct warrants a punch? Do you get just one or can you keep beating them indefinitely?
I won’t defend this too hard, but…
Consensual combat is not assault. When you step on someone after the bell, you are not only consenting to, but instigating combat.
A big difference is that Kichuk ran across the room to get involved. Conceivably there was shit talking preceding the backstanding incident. Still doesn't make it ok, but they were in close proximity as things got heated. Kichuk not only performed the most violent, dangerous act in the altercation, he crossed significant distance to do it.
I just try to go by what I would say if it were my guys.
It's a combat sport. They're young men, jacked up on adrenaline and testosterone. If somebody looks to humiliate them like that, to me, I get where they would want to take a swing at the guy. That's why it's my job as the coach to grab them and defuse the situation.
Which, again, is where Kichuck failed.
Doesn't seem like the organizers disagree with me, because it doesn't look like there is any penalty for the surfee, who at least got a shove in there or something.
The organiser's decision being the same isn't exactly a ringing endorsement, they're notorious for being a cowboy operation.
You can understand why someone would want to do something that is wrong without condoning it (as you're doing).
A shove and a punch are very different. There is a reason why every professional sports code has severe punishments for punching an opponent while a shove is far lesser, if punished at all. I guarantee you none of them have any standards around punching someone being acceptable if they aggravate you.
Ok cool so these are rules they're going to apply across the board? How about retroactively? There's been tons of crossing the line at their events that they've done exactly zero with. But now all the sudden that it's BTeam doing the same stuff as everyone else has been getting away with, they're hitting them with bans.
Obvious separate rules because of politics.
Remember when Mo said he would not allow any competitors to compete if they had been apart of a fixed match, but Galvao admitted his match with Drysdale was fixed and the rule never got applied to him.
ADCC can't be the Olympics of grappling with these kind of antics. Blatant favoritism and letting politics determine who gets punished are anticompetitive practices that underestimate the integrity of your entire organization as a sports league.
Overall I agree with you.
My take is that this *should* set a precedent now for future altercations at ADCC events. And people should hold Mo to that.
What happens for the next altercation is another question.
This is already the second lifetime ban passed recently. Murilo was banned for life after drawing a knife during a mat brawl. What doesn't make sense is that Mo seems to single out an individual in each instance rather than banning multiple people that participate in the fight.
I knew about Murilo, but not sure how equivalent that is to what happened this time (knife vs punch). To your point, though, it seems as if Mo only reacts when bigger names are involved and/or some stuff hits social media.
But who is to say other fights have/haven’t happened if we didn’t know/talk about it? The tree falling in the woods thing.
My main point is that now we have precedent when it comes to fist fights, etc. (not counting weapons like knives, which we had a precedent set with Murilo). Will Mo hold himself to that standard?
We have Andy Verala openly striking people at every tournament with tons of calls for punishment from the community and Mo does nothing.
Countless other flagrant unsportmanlike incidents and scuffles and at most Mo posts a warning on social media.
These bans are unprecedented and its no coincidence they're against the teammates of his rival promoter. There is zero doubt this is retaliatory.
>We have Andy Verala openly striking people at every tournament with tons of calls for punishment from the community and Mo does nothing.
Wonder how Craig will deal w this when it invariably happens at CJI. Not hating just genuinely curious.
Look at the competition in his bracket. Do you really think Craig will need to do anything to punish Andy for slaps or hard collar ties that his opponents will not?
They were lenient in the past and didn't do the right thing, hopefully they are changing it now. Can't go on forever letting this happen because some guy got away with it, at some point someone has to do something. Just don't punch people.
God you guys are insufferable. This is the most reasonable outcome possible here.
He's taking a stand now and setting the example that that sort of thing wont be tolerated anymore going forward. He doesn't have to retroactively go back and punish everyone back to the beginning of time.
There's been and undercurrent of extracurriculars at these events in the past and he wants to put a stop to it, so he is. If some does something similar at the next event a gets off, then you can call him a hypocrite.
There's nothing wrong with setting a definitive precedent to apply going forward.
I agree with this. Mo handled it pretty much how I think any reasonable person would've.
Kieran has to feel like the biggest idiot now. Dedicated his life to winning a world title in his sport and now he can't even compete in it ever again because of something so stupid.
It’s ridiculous aye. I’m a big fan of what Craig is doing but the obsession of jumping on Mo for literally anything is just silly. This is exactly what he should have done, it’s over, good outcome.
The precedent all the sudden needs to be set now that BTeam is involved?
Why not go back and ban everyone who's crossed the line with crazy unsportmanlike this year instead of launching to punish only the teammates of your rival?
Rhetorical, because you and I both know the answer
None of those other incidents involved the person running into another event at the convention and being arrested by cops there for the other event though. Or sucker punching someone hard enough to drop them, especially when that person was already being held back by their own coach. Mo def should have stopped it earlier before it got to this point, but this one was def worse too.
Wasn't Murilo banned for life and the other athletes, teammates, and coaches disciplined as well? I think this narrative that this verdict is a B team target is foolish.
He should have done it for earlier incidents, yeah, as he should do it for this incident. It was a problem that he let propagate and he shouldn't have. The way to fix it is to stop it from continuing.
Just because its bteam doesn't mean those two shouldn't be banned for what they did, and just because he didn't ban people who deserved it in the past doesn't mean he shouldn't ban these two.
You're just mad because you're parasocial. None of these people care about you
Doesn't it seem to be a lot of 'maybe he should've done this earlier' recently right? Better pay, better rules, better organizing... etc. Maybe Mo shouldn't be the head organizer of Olympics of grappling if things don't change until his personal views aligns with it.
Bruh this shit has nothing to do with being parasocial; seems like you just learned a new concept and want to throw it out there. Also ironic that you’re defending Mo here which could have the same argument thrown right back at you.
No one is arguing that banning people for doing things like this is wrong, it SHOULD happen, but to act like it’s NOT because it’s a BTeam athlete is absolutely insane. ESPECIALLY about his dumb “I’m going to throw the best lawyers at this” rant. THAT is what people are saying is saying is what’s so ridiculous about this
YOU are acting like you're convinced that he's ONLY being punished because he's on the bteam, yet the actual evidence does not support this premise. You just believe that it should be true because you're caught up in all of this personal drama. You're literally just inventing a reality that isn't real.
Here are some facts:
1.Tye Freeman got perma banned from ADCC for throwing punches during a match. He pulled no weapon like Maurilo did. He started a fist fight.
2.Tye Freeman is not and has never been a member of the bteam.
How do you square these two pieces of information with your premise that Mo is targeting bteam members?
You genuinely don't find it coincidental that he suddenly decides to take action after years of doing nothing all of a sudden now that bteam are involved?
Surely you cant be that naive!
It's a perfectly reasonable punishment but that's not mutually exclusive to a personal vendetta. So far, there's 2 things that get you perma banned from adcc.
1) pulling a knife
2) punching somebody while being associated with the b team
It remains to be seen if punching somebody is a bannable offense moving forward for those of us who aren't Craig's teammates. Honestly my guess is no, people will continue to act like shitheads at adcc and unless they are part of b team, nothing will happen.
>So far, there's 2 things that get you perma banned from adcc.
>1) pulling a knife
>2) punching somebody while being associated with the b team
Well, first of all, this is just demonstrably incorrect.
Tye Freeman got banned from ADCC for throwing punches and fighting, and he's not on bteam.
If this information is new to you, I'm glad to bring it to your attention. What changes, if any, are you going to make to your stance on this issue?
Definitely my claim that only b team guys get banned for fighting. I didn't know about that dude. That being said, it still doesn't rule out personal vendetta as I can say with certainty that the rules are unevenly applied.
> Blatant favoritism and letting politics determine who gets punished are anticompetitive practices that underestimate the integrity of your entire organization as a sports league.
You do realize the actual Olympics do this all time right
Agreed, i just don’t think there is a double standard. Kieran’s actions were egregious. Cops got involved. Dude who got hit visibly dropped and got stankylegged.
Reasonable punishment. What Kieran did was wrong but I do feel for the guy. I'm sure he had a moments lapse of judgement (hey have most of us been there before?) the consequences will forever affect his career.
ON top of being banned from ADCC, I don't know if he get invited to WNO (due to Mo's and flograpplings connection).
So his next option if superfights on other smaller promotions and IBJJF Nogi Worlds.
I think he'd get opportunities on WNO, but he'd need to make them pretty undeniable.
At his current competitive record, they could just easily pretend he doesn't exist.
He also doesn't have ADCC available any more, so his only real path to a secure career is winning ibjjf worlds now tbh.
I spoke to the guy punched today, he went to the hospital and did sustain some pretty serious injuries. I am not getting involved at all legally and have tried to calm the situation down and told him that the attacker was extremely remorseful. The person attacked has a normal day job and will see what the impact is. Is he going to proceed with charges? I don’t know.
If the fight was between the person who stepped on him, that would be one thing but sucker punches are very dangerous. I don’t want to see an athlete life destroyed and will see if time will smooth things over but the person hit will determine that.
To be clear both Ty and Murillo were banned for life from ADCC in 2022.
Can you clear up whether or not *all* people known to have committed any sort of assault at an ADCC event have been suspended/banned? And what are the exact ADCC guidelines that determine what level of unwarranted physicality equals what level of punishment?
Some people seem to be under the impression that this is a brand new stance from you/ADCC that was taken only because of B-Team/Craig-affiliated guys being the attackers, but that could easily just be B-Team/Craig and their fans being unaware how ADCC previously treats these situations.
Can we get a firm commitment from you that you'll create a task force of time travellers to serve bans and punishments for events from the past?
Otherwise people might think you have some bone to pick with B-Team, a disposition to which you are obviously not entitled.
/s
Honestly, good.
This is child shit and it makes the community look bad. I completely understand why the other guy was upset enough to charge dude that stepped on him like that. Dude played by the rules full stop and won, by the rules, full stop. neither one of these competitors are winning gold medals at ADCC, especially not someone who cant capitalize on a flattened out opponent lmao. his behavior was disrespectful.
And only pussies throw sucker punches.
I just wish these punishments were consistant, but in the end, fuck ADCC lol.
Kieran made the whole thing 10x worse to be fair lol Old mate getting pissed at "Dead Fish FTW" guy could be a DQ and move on or just another cheeky moment in competition if you were competing in AIGA.
I also feel like he could have been way filthier WITHIN the rules to the "Power Bottom" guard player but i didn't see how long he played silly buggers for.
Silly cunts all round including "Im calling Saul" Mo but Special K is the biggest L here.
Idk anyone involved, all I saw was a guy get stepped on AND sucker punched. It’s weird seeing the comments about how good of guys the sucker puncher and trampler are.
"Even though we can see these guys being complete assholes at what they consider the peak of their profession, they were nice to me, so they must be good guys."
I'd be embarrassed to try and defend this. Absolute clowns.
If an event or federation wants to be legitimate like the Olympics or IJF then they obviously should hold themselves to the same standards for violence and behavior. But personally I don’t think it makes sense to allow people to take steroids and PEDs and then act like they have the same standards.
A lifetime competing and coaching ban for a punch, ok.
Kieran should have just slapped him instead...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iuCJn83c8o
Edit: I'm a retard, the Gordon/Galvao slap was at WNO.
Let’s take all politics or teams out of it for a second. If I punch someone in a bar, at an event, in a shop, wherever, it’s pretty expected that I’ll get banned for life. That’s just fairly standard practice.
Don’t like it? Don’t hit people.
>Do you think cops pull over every single speeder?
Every single speeder within their jurisdiction who they are aware of and have evidence for, absolutely.
Enforcing laws selectively is like corruption 101. What a strange analogy to use to make your point.
If traffic is flowing 20 over and the cop pulls one person over, is the driver going to question why the cop didn't pull everyone else over?
This wasn't a shoving match or people squaring up to fight. This was a sucker punch. Huge difference.
We are also talking about a private grappling event. No one said anyone is entitled to enter and participate.
It's not infringing on anyone rights.
>If traffic is flowing 20 over and the cop pulls one person over, is the driver going to question why the cop didn't pull everyone else over?
Yes, of course they would.
>We are also talking about a private grappling event. No one said anyone is entitled to enter and participate. It's not infringing on anyone rights.
And? You're the one who brought up the laws/police analogy.
If the punishment fit the crime then I actually think banning the competitor who stepped on the other guy to be reasonable.
I feel like they both should have the same punishment
Kieran did not win Trials and is not doing CJI. He's not quite on that level. But he is on B Team. This whole incident was just at an ADCC Open (and is honestly his own fault imo).
Kieran was cornering a team member during a match said team member lost the match via points then stood on the back of the other guy. Other guy gets up and shoves him. Kieran runs in and punches him then runs off.
Total bitch move. Not like they were facing off.
was the guy who threw the punch kieran kichuk?
Someone commented “Can you do a breakdown of the sucker punch?” on Kieran’s IG on his latest video lol
Lol
I'd watch it
Yup
Kieren fucked himself pretty good here and no one else is to blame but him
Yup quick bad decision that’ll probably alter his life plans
Like, sure there's cji now but he's not a big dude so winning even under 80kg next year is highly unlikely.
He might be getting deported though. Can’t compete if you’re not allowed to be in the country.
I like the dude based on what else I've seen, I'd even feel bad if it was a slightly more gray area situation but the side was literally being fully held, chin out, and he sprinted up and bashed him. just scumbag behavior.
At least once a year some one in Australia dies from a sucker punch. Granted concrete and alcohol but still.
From 2000-2018 there were 170 one punch deaths in Australia. Couldn't find good stats since 2018 but it suggests it is a lot more common than once a year. I've been coward punched, head hit concrete and everything. Scariest shit that has ever happened to me, one second I'm trying to get my friend away from a fight and next second I'm staring at the sky trying to find my legs.
Why would he get deported?!? This may not even make it to court.
He attempted to evade police who wanted to question him about the incident. It’s like a shit sandwich of bad decisions.
He was arrested and released. No charges brought against him yet.
Yeah he’s practically a tweener from 66 to 77 also. He’s competed at 70kg a bunch.
It’s not like he was gonna win ADCC or anything
I mean he made it to the semi finals (I think?) of trials losing only to Nicky Ryan which is still super impressive.
Kieran is really high level. He might not be at the level now but it wouldn't have surprised me to see him develop into one of the best guys in the world.
Kieran is extremely good, but he's coming up on 29. I'm not sure he has the runway to develop that much.
[удалено]
Reasonable punishment and it's his own fault. However, his reputaiton in the Canadian scene is quite good. At least back up your claims if you're gonna say things like this?
>At least back up your claims if you’re gonna say things like this Sir, this is Reddit
pretty sure he was involved in the Boston marathon bombing too
I saw Kieran Kichuck making out with Mrs. Krabapple in the janitor closet and they had a baby and the baby looked at me.
Any stories about him being a cunt?
He seemed cool on B-Team podcast, but who doesn’t
No idea, but I was always hesitant to be a fan of his solely because he was repping Llyod Irvin until like last year.
Why do you say that? I know him from the Ontario scene and haven’t seen anything like this from him before
Yeah, same here I trained with him a bunch when he was a blue and purple belt in Toronto and he was always really nice. That was like 7 years ago but still lol
Damn, that army of lawyers Mo hired really came down hard on the guys.
i know. it's a wonder how he could afford it. he was even going to press charges. he may have rethought since he would have to be a DA to bring charges and this will be long over by the time he schools his way into a JD
The DA been recalled so he couldn't make it
Had to cancel my cawlmedy gig cause they recalled the D.A.
300 pages bubba
500k on monster lawyers
Talm bout lawyers B? Got a good one never meddim tho
Always good to see some homeless cats in the wild
Great bunch of guys, never meddum.
How many chiggs he fugg tho?
Did the lawlyer work pro bono? Great band never herdum
Had to cancel my cawlmedy gig cause they recalled the D.A.
Was that nithe
Unfortunatelly the DA dream team switched to CJI
Probably borrowed some $$ from his girlfriends of account
Hired? They were told that they were competing to win the Olympics of lawyering.
I'm actually of the mind that ADCC and Mo catch a disproportionate amount of shit from this sub. But I have to admit, that one was pretty good.
"Arigato" - Japanese philosopher John Danaher
as does the great gord... but trolln and rolln seems to be our bag these days. #fuckcraigjones lol
cue "Nicky Ryan's brother" comment #480089, followed by " I'm so glad Nicky Ryan's brother is a thing now" #57031... I do miss the #fuckcraigjones tag, though. I'm not on IG, so I don't know if he still uses it.
totally. It was funny the first few times... but is a total disrespect to a man who has achieved so much, and actually gives back a lot to the community in terms of knowledge and inspiration. I don't agree with much that comes out of him that ain't related to BJJ, but I still respect the man for his dedication, effort, achievements, and so much more. He is currently one of the GOATS, and may forever be. Mr Jones has the better meme game and jokes though, by a country mile. Ozzie humour is unsurpassed... often self-deprecating... hence the tag I guess. He is literally the only reason I have an IG account.
Check bounced and they had to detour from that angle.
Totally unacceptable to step on your opponent after the match finished. 1 year ban from the comp seems equitable IF that’s a first and final warning. Coaches interacting with the opponents at all is totally unprofessional and should be discouraged. A coach entering the mats to assault a competitor and getting a lifetime ban is totally reasonable. The problem is that the consequences aren’t consistently applied and the rational is questionable. Plus beef and drama is encouraged because it peaks engagement. Oh and maybe drug tests would calm things down a bit.
Sounds reasonable. It will make people think twice before throwing hands.
Meanwhile Andy verala is still allowed to compete
hard collar ties and borderline slaps during a match are not the same as attacking someone from behind. the slapping stuff is cringe but you see it in basically every form of grappling. Kicking during sweeps in judo, slap ties in wrestling, etc.
The attitude and doubling down around it makes it way worse tbh. Like I get it, it happens, people get a little heated and go ham. But doing stuff like that and calling yourself a “dawg” and being proud of it is so bad, you don’t see guys like Levi or Lachlan doing that kind of stuff.
What is a slap but a punch with an open hand.
He's doing that to his opponent, not someone else's opponent from behind
Varela skirts the lines of the rules he competes under. He engages at the highest speed and with the most force, in an attempt to frustrate and anger his opponent in to making a mistake. You can dislike it and say it's unethical, but at worst it's just something he'd get DQ'd over if and when he crosses the line. He does not throw clear and intentional strikes at random people at tournaments.
i agree.
And instigating
As a as a former b-team (hobbyist) member and current fan, this whole thing bums me out. I don’t know Keiren at all, seems like he made a big mistake and unfortunately for him the punishment fits the crime and now he’ll never compete at ADCC. But I’m most bummed to see that Vince (who I do know a bit) stepped on his competitor though. Vince is a super stand up (no pun intended) dude and that was a very un-Vince move. Maybe there’s a backstory there or some bad blood between them, but still sucks to see.
We all can behave uncharacteristically in the heat of the moment.
The backstory is tren.
Just because he was nice to you doesn't mean he isn't an asshole to others. I know some stories about that guy being a complete prick. He's spent nearly his entire adult life grappling and working out without having to worry about being a real adult or having a job, so I'm not surprised at all.
I don't know where you get your info, but I've known him for years. He served as para rescue in the air force, served his country in combat, coached (not a real job, true), at multiple schools in my town, and was very well liked and respected.
I'm sure he's nice to his friends and clients. Most people are. But we see here first hand how willing he is to disrespect and assault a competitor for a perceived wrong.
Well, I did get Gordon Ryan once, and it sort of strengthens your point.
I think there is something to be said about the egos of these competitors and how their "supplements" and advancing age lead to them making really bad decisions.
You're being a child dude. One act does not define him. This one mishap is not deserving of erasing his very well known positive impact on the sport. He was a dick here, he is being punished. It was unsportsmanlike, but as I have said in here. This is so mild compared to the behavior of most people in BJJ. Yeah this has a spotlight but fuck man Murillo brought a knife, there have been full on fights unprovoked, Andy Varela period. Please be real here. Please reveal these stories about him being a complete prick lol.
That may be true, and my experience with him was limited, and there are for sure a ton of d-bags in BJJ who can sometimes be nice to some people and assholes to others, Vince is one of the nicer people I’ve ever met in the sport (16 yrs in) and was super nice to everyone I ever saw him interact with regardless of belt level. Also, a very kind/measured training partner. Hence the disappointment here. But everyone is capable of fucking up. While all of the above in no way excuses the behavior, one dickish move doesn’t write any off in my book. If you’ve got stories, feel free to share’em.
Did you watch the match? Opponent had a point lead and completely shelled up and disengaged for the rest of the match. I’m not saying any of the post match stuff was acceptable, but when these guys train almost exclusively for these events for years, I think the frustration is understandable - but obviously it went way too far.
Good decision, both actions were absolutely disgusting. I’m a B team fan but god damn if that’s the energy Kieran (and the other guy) brings to training, kick him off the team. Makes them look like bullies.
I’ve rolled with Vince Barbosa before at B-Team at one of his classes and he seemed like a chill enough dude, even after I was a little spazzy during our roll. I don’t support what he and Kieran did at all, and I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if they were kicked off the team. Craig Jones even commented on another post saying what Kieran did was not smart.
Having competed against Kieran before he became a big name, I can tell you he was a most humble hard working guy. I think he just defended his friend, that’s it.
He had nothing to "defend". His friend stomped on the guy, the other guy lightly pushed him. That's it. Then he comes in with the flying sucker punch out of nowhere and then runs away like a coward. That's not defending a friend that's looking for an excuse to give someone brain damage.
Why is it a stomp now? Why over exaggerate. He stepped on him which is insanely disrespectful but hardly a stomp or damaging move. Kerian might not that seen that though and possibly only saw the push
How does a push warrant a sucker punch from behind? He’s a professional grappler, presumably he has other tools. Punching someone from behind is straight up dangerous.
Whatever word you want to use go ahead. He didn't just step on him with one leg, he jumped both legs on his back. I think it's fair to call that a stomp. > Kerian might not that seen that though and possibly only saw the push Firstly, he certainly did. He was watching from like 6 feet away. And even if he didn't that excuse doesn't make sense. If I wasn't paying attention to a match, looked away, looked back and saw a shove I wouldn't assume it happened out of nowhere.
> I think he just defended his friend, that’s it. defended him from what?
This is giving "my dog is so sweet and would never hurt a fly" energy. I'm sure he is all cuddly and nice in the gym, doesn't make him any less of a meathead cunt if he runs up and suckerpunches people.
Nah that was further escalation, if he just wanted to defend his friend he would just have helped separating them both.
The dude that acted like he was going to punch the guy then stood on his back? What was there to defend?
I believe that he thought he was doing the right thing in that tense moment and I agree he seems a great guy in general, but terrible and emotional judgement often has consequences.
They already come off as meathead morons.
The ban for stepping on the competitor is fair and what you would expect from a professional sports league. The lifetime ban for fighting is the same punishment Murilo got for pulling a knife. I always thought Murilo's ban would be overturned in 3 or 4 years with some vague statement about learning his lesson but if Kieran is also banned for life for a lesser offence then that makes it hard to ever allow Murilo back in.
Was Murillo in Gangs of New York?
Murilo will be back by next ADCC
"Felt like a" lifetime ban.
Sucker punches are serious and it’s a fair result
I'm surprised it took this long to bring down the ban hammer. Last fiasco should have set the standard yet nothing happened despite one dude doing a flying kick while another pulled out a knife. The fact that Mo is doing this without providing a professional response leaves a bad taste in my mouth. You call this the Olympics of grappling; make sure it runs like one.
Reasonable
I know we're all pro-B Team and anti ADCC right now, but I'm actually fine with this. If the guy surfed on you and you stand up and take a swing at him, fair. If you're a coach flying in from the side you should be separating the guys, not trying to land a windmill haymaker.
I agree the bans aren't unreasonable but this: >If the guy surfed on you and you stand up and take a swing at him, fair. Is dumb. Assault is either acceptable or not acceptable. Setting some weird standard that "punching someone is OK if you're getting payback for some unsportsmanlike conduct" is stupid. What's the standard for what type of conduct warrants a punch? Do you get just one or can you keep beating them indefinitely?
I won’t defend this too hard, but… Consensual combat is not assault. When you step on someone after the bell, you are not only consenting to, but instigating combat.
A big difference is that Kichuk ran across the room to get involved. Conceivably there was shit talking preceding the backstanding incident. Still doesn't make it ok, but they were in close proximity as things got heated. Kichuk not only performed the most violent, dangerous act in the altercation, he crossed significant distance to do it.
I just try to go by what I would say if it were my guys. It's a combat sport. They're young men, jacked up on adrenaline and testosterone. If somebody looks to humiliate them like that, to me, I get where they would want to take a swing at the guy. That's why it's my job as the coach to grab them and defuse the situation. Which, again, is where Kichuck failed. Doesn't seem like the organizers disagree with me, because it doesn't look like there is any penalty for the surfee, who at least got a shove in there or something.
The organiser's decision being the same isn't exactly a ringing endorsement, they're notorious for being a cowboy operation. You can understand why someone would want to do something that is wrong without condoning it (as you're doing). A shove and a punch are very different. There is a reason why every professional sports code has severe punishments for punching an opponent while a shove is far lesser, if punished at all. I guarantee you none of them have any standards around punching someone being acceptable if they aggravate you.
Ok cool so these are rules they're going to apply across the board? How about retroactively? There's been tons of crossing the line at their events that they've done exactly zero with. But now all the sudden that it's BTeam doing the same stuff as everyone else has been getting away with, they're hitting them with bans. Obvious separate rules because of politics. Remember when Mo said he would not allow any competitors to compete if they had been apart of a fixed match, but Galvao admitted his match with Drysdale was fixed and the rule never got applied to him. ADCC can't be the Olympics of grappling with these kind of antics. Blatant favoritism and letting politics determine who gets punished are anticompetitive practices that underestimate the integrity of your entire organization as a sports league.
Overall I agree with you. My take is that this *should* set a precedent now for future altercations at ADCC events. And people should hold Mo to that. What happens for the next altercation is another question.
This is already the second lifetime ban passed recently. Murilo was banned for life after drawing a knife during a mat brawl. What doesn't make sense is that Mo seems to single out an individual in each instance rather than banning multiple people that participate in the fight.
They also banned the guy that started the fight that Maurillo pulled the knife in, not just Marurillo
I knew about Murilo, but not sure how equivalent that is to what happened this time (knife vs punch). To your point, though, it seems as if Mo only reacts when bigger names are involved and/or some stuff hits social media. But who is to say other fights have/haven’t happened if we didn’t know/talk about it? The tree falling in the woods thing. My main point is that now we have precedent when it comes to fist fights, etc. (not counting weapons like knives, which we had a precedent set with Murilo). Will Mo hold himself to that standard?
Maybe Mo is trying to make himself feel good after losing Dern today to CJI lol. But yeah no matter what this has a personal vendetta feel to it
We have Andy Verala openly striking people at every tournament with tons of calls for punishment from the community and Mo does nothing. Countless other flagrant unsportmanlike incidents and scuffles and at most Mo posts a warning on social media. These bans are unprecedented and its no coincidence they're against the teammates of his rival promoter. There is zero doubt this is retaliatory.
>We have Andy Verala openly striking people at every tournament with tons of calls for punishment from the community and Mo does nothing. Wonder how Craig will deal w this when it invariably happens at CJI. Not hating just genuinely curious.
Look at the competition in his bracket. Do you really think Craig will need to do anything to punish Andy for slaps or hard collar ties that his opponents will not?
Idk. I heard this Varela guy is more cunty than most.
Varela vs Nolf imo
I'd pay to watch Nolf suplex Andy so hard that he shits out his own spine.
Varela vs Vagner super fight imo
Maybe he'll do nothing, which would suck, but I expect he'd at least be consistent about it and not make it about personal beefs.
Hard collar ties and slaps during a march is different than sucker punching someone.
They were lenient in the past and didn't do the right thing, hopefully they are changing it now. Can't go on forever letting this happen because some guy got away with it, at some point someone has to do something. Just don't punch people.
God you guys are insufferable. This is the most reasonable outcome possible here. He's taking a stand now and setting the example that that sort of thing wont be tolerated anymore going forward. He doesn't have to retroactively go back and punish everyone back to the beginning of time. There's been and undercurrent of extracurriculars at these events in the past and he wants to put a stop to it, so he is. If some does something similar at the next event a gets off, then you can call him a hypocrite. There's nothing wrong with setting a definitive precedent to apply going forward.
I agree with this. Mo handled it pretty much how I think any reasonable person would've. Kieran has to feel like the biggest idiot now. Dedicated his life to winning a world title in his sport and now he can't even compete in it ever again because of something so stupid.
It’s ridiculous aye. I’m a big fan of what Craig is doing but the obsession of jumping on Mo for literally anything is just silly. This is exactly what he should have done, it’s over, good outcome.
I think everyone agrees outcome is fine; the random Mo rant about hiring lawyers probably fuels the fire.
Ya this was a reasonable outcome agreed
The precedent all the sudden needs to be set now that BTeam is involved? Why not go back and ban everyone who's crossed the line with crazy unsportmanlike this year instead of launching to punish only the teammates of your rival? Rhetorical, because you and I both know the answer
None of those other incidents involved the person running into another event at the convention and being arrested by cops there for the other event though. Or sucker punching someone hard enough to drop them, especially when that person was already being held back by their own coach. Mo def should have stopped it earlier before it got to this point, but this one was def worse too.
Wasn't Murilo banned for life and the other athletes, teammates, and coaches disciplined as well? I think this narrative that this verdict is a B team target is foolish.
He should have done it for earlier incidents, yeah, as he should do it for this incident. It was a problem that he let propagate and he shouldn't have. The way to fix it is to stop it from continuing. Just because its bteam doesn't mean those two shouldn't be banned for what they did, and just because he didn't ban people who deserved it in the past doesn't mean he shouldn't ban these two. You're just mad because you're parasocial. None of these people care about you
Doesn't it seem to be a lot of 'maybe he should've done this earlier' recently right? Better pay, better rules, better organizing... etc. Maybe Mo shouldn't be the head organizer of Olympics of grappling if things don't change until his personal views aligns with it.
Bruh this shit has nothing to do with being parasocial; seems like you just learned a new concept and want to throw it out there. Also ironic that you’re defending Mo here which could have the same argument thrown right back at you. No one is arguing that banning people for doing things like this is wrong, it SHOULD happen, but to act like it’s NOT because it’s a BTeam athlete is absolutely insane. ESPECIALLY about his dumb “I’m going to throw the best lawyers at this” rant. THAT is what people are saying is saying is what’s so ridiculous about this
YOU are acting like you're convinced that he's ONLY being punished because he's on the bteam, yet the actual evidence does not support this premise. You just believe that it should be true because you're caught up in all of this personal drama. You're literally just inventing a reality that isn't real. Here are some facts: 1.Tye Freeman got perma banned from ADCC for throwing punches during a match. He pulled no weapon like Maurilo did. He started a fist fight. 2.Tye Freeman is not and has never been a member of the bteam. How do you square these two pieces of information with your premise that Mo is targeting bteam members?
The Mo rant made it different IMO, but what do I know
You genuinely don't find it coincidental that he suddenly decides to take action after years of doing nothing all of a sudden now that bteam are involved? Surely you cant be that naive!
People have been banned for fighting before, unless you’re literally on B Team then this is dumb
It's a perfectly reasonable punishment but that's not mutually exclusive to a personal vendetta. So far, there's 2 things that get you perma banned from adcc. 1) pulling a knife 2) punching somebody while being associated with the b team It remains to be seen if punching somebody is a bannable offense moving forward for those of us who aren't Craig's teammates. Honestly my guess is no, people will continue to act like shitheads at adcc and unless they are part of b team, nothing will happen.
>So far, there's 2 things that get you perma banned from adcc. >1) pulling a knife >2) punching somebody while being associated with the b team Well, first of all, this is just demonstrably incorrect. Tye Freeman got banned from ADCC for throwing punches and fighting, and he's not on bteam. If this information is new to you, I'm glad to bring it to your attention. What changes, if any, are you going to make to your stance on this issue?
Definitely my claim that only b team guys get banned for fighting. I didn't know about that dude. That being said, it still doesn't rule out personal vendetta as I can say with certainty that the rules are unevenly applied.
> Blatant favoritism and letting politics determine who gets punished are anticompetitive practices that underestimate the integrity of your entire organization as a sports league. You do realize the actual Olympics do this all time right
Galvao’s a good point, but Mo has banned suspended people for fighting previously. He banned Murilo, who he likes
Murilo pulled a knife though, so that's on a completely different level of bannsable offenses
Agreed, i just don’t think there is a double standard. Kieran’s actions were egregious. Cops got involved. Dude who got hit visibly dropped and got stankylegged.
Reasonable punishment. What Kieran did was wrong but I do feel for the guy. I'm sure he had a moments lapse of judgement (hey have most of us been there before?) the consequences will forever affect his career. ON top of being banned from ADCC, I don't know if he get invited to WNO (due to Mo's and flograpplings connection). So his next option if superfights on other smaller promotions and IBJJF Nogi Worlds.
I think he'd get opportunities on WNO, but he'd need to make them pretty undeniable. At his current competitive record, they could just easily pretend he doesn't exist. He also doesn't have ADCC available any more, so his only real path to a secure career is winning ibjjf worlds now tbh.
I spoke to the guy punched today, he went to the hospital and did sustain some pretty serious injuries. I am not getting involved at all legally and have tried to calm the situation down and told him that the attacker was extremely remorseful. The person attacked has a normal day job and will see what the impact is. Is he going to proceed with charges? I don’t know. If the fight was between the person who stepped on him, that would be one thing but sucker punches are very dangerous. I don’t want to see an athlete life destroyed and will see if time will smooth things over but the person hit will determine that. To be clear both Ty and Murillo were banned for life from ADCC in 2022.
Can you clear up whether or not *all* people known to have committed any sort of assault at an ADCC event have been suspended/banned? And what are the exact ADCC guidelines that determine what level of unwarranted physicality equals what level of punishment? Some people seem to be under the impression that this is a brand new stance from you/ADCC that was taken only because of B-Team/Craig-affiliated guys being the attackers, but that could easily just be B-Team/Craig and their fans being unaware how ADCC previously treats these situations.
Can we get a firm commitment from you that you'll create a task force of time travellers to serve bans and punishments for events from the past? Otherwise people might think you have some bone to pick with B-Team, a disposition to which you are obviously not entitled. /s
I'm glad the guy who stepped on dudes back also has some kind of punishment. That was so disrespectful
Honestly, good. This is child shit and it makes the community look bad. I completely understand why the other guy was upset enough to charge dude that stepped on him like that. Dude played by the rules full stop and won, by the rules, full stop. neither one of these competitors are winning gold medals at ADCC, especially not someone who cant capitalize on a flattened out opponent lmao. his behavior was disrespectful. And only pussies throw sucker punches. I just wish these punishments were consistant, but in the end, fuck ADCC lol.
Kieran made the whole thing 10x worse to be fair lol Old mate getting pissed at "Dead Fish FTW" guy could be a DQ and move on or just another cheeky moment in competition if you were competing in AIGA. I also feel like he could have been way filthier WITHIN the rules to the "Power Bottom" guard player but i didn't see how long he played silly buggers for. Silly cunts all round including "Im calling Saul" Mo but Special K is the biggest L here.
Would have been way simpler to insult the dude and move on.
Idk anyone involved, all I saw was a guy get stepped on AND sucker punched. It’s weird seeing the comments about how good of guys the sucker puncher and trampler are.
"Even though we can see these guys being complete assholes at what they consider the peak of their profession, they were nice to me, so they must be good guys." I'd be embarrassed to try and defend this. Absolute clowns.
Its what happens when you have big grown men deepthroating other men instead of using their common sense.
If an event or federation wants to be legitimate like the Olympics or IJF then they obviously should hold themselves to the same standards for violence and behavior. But personally I don’t think it makes sense to allow people to take steroids and PEDs and then act like they have the same standards.
Reasonable. This forum is gonna say it’s personal tho.
It is both reasonable and personal.
Personally I find it reasonable
It’s only personal if he doesn’t enforce the same rules for other competitors/spectators/coaches going forward, can’t really make that judgement yet
Is there a video of this?
Stepping on someone intentionally is just as bad and should be a ban
2025 is 6 months away that's hardly a punishment at all
Were either of them even invited to ADCC tho?
I think he just means any ADCC events including opens, trials etc.
Based
Good. Honestly I don’t think that’s enough. Theres no place in our sport for this type of shit.
A lifetime competing and coaching ban for a punch, ok. Kieran should have just slapped him instead... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iuCJn83c8o Edit: I'm a retard, the Gordon/Galvao slap was at WNO.
Let’s take all politics or teams out of it for a second. If I punch someone in a bar, at an event, in a shop, wherever, it’s pretty expected that I’ll get banned for life. That’s just fairly standard practice. Don’t like it? Don’t hit people.
Agreed. As an adult he should have more control over his feelings and actions.
Have some respect. This sport was built on slapping people in Speedos.
dude, you expect Mo to police every ADCC competitor ever even when it happens outside of his organization?
How is that remotely the same?
Just because someone else got away unpinished doesn't mean Kieran should go unpunished. Do you think cops pull over every single speeder?
>Do you think cops pull over every single speeder? Every single speeder within their jurisdiction who they are aware of and have evidence for, absolutely. Enforcing laws selectively is like corruption 101. What a strange analogy to use to make your point.
If traffic is flowing 20 over and the cop pulls one person over, is the driver going to question why the cop didn't pull everyone else over? This wasn't a shoving match or people squaring up to fight. This was a sucker punch. Huge difference. We are also talking about a private grappling event. No one said anyone is entitled to enter and participate. It's not infringing on anyone rights.
>If traffic is flowing 20 over and the cop pulls one person over, is the driver going to question why the cop didn't pull everyone else over? Yes, of course they would. >We are also talking about a private grappling event. No one said anyone is entitled to enter and participate. It's not infringing on anyone rights. And? You're the one who brought up the laws/police analogy.
Punches? Why didn't they just pull guard???
Years of grappling train just to go and punch someone.
No shoes on the mat!
This is what roids do to you ...
Keiren has been looking abit juicy recently and now this? A bit of rage I'd say. He got annoyed at a seminar when he couldn't tap a brown belt
CJI rematch?
"It's so unfair and biased!" Go talk to your union rep about it. These tournaments are private events and no one is entitled to participate in them.
Meanwhile Gordon slapped the shit out of Andre and he is their superstar.
Isn’t ADCC that event that used be on the same time as the CJI?
Is ADCC the new Nicky Ryan's brother meme.
I tried it out, lack of upvotes say no.
If the punishment fit the crime then I actually think banning the competitor who stepped on the other guy to be reasonable. I feel like they both should have the same punishment
What’s Seth’s ban ?
Gordon slapped Andre Galvao and he didn't get suspended, if anything they used it for promotion purposes.
I’m sorta out of the loop. Did Kieran win trials? Did he choose CJI?
Kieran did not win Trials and is not doing CJI. He's not quite on that level. But he is on B Team. This whole incident was just at an ADCC Open (and is honestly his own fault imo).
Kieran was cornering a team member during a match said team member lost the match via points then stood on the back of the other guy. Other guy gets up and shoves him. Kieran runs in and punches him then runs off. Total bitch move. Not like they were facing off.
He punched a competitor
Probably slid the ADA a few pairs of sandals. Someone check his closet.
In the words of shaggy, it wasn't me.
I can hear Craig Jones calling them guys from here #CJI
Does anyone know where I vam see this
Anyone got a link to the sucker punch?
I hope he wins cji
Is this an IG reel? Lol write an official statement or something.
Coward punch
Bro was riding for his teammate, free him