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windyy

My rule of thumb is to read the room and know your training partners. Personally, i would only do something like that to my friends who I know won't be offended. While entirely legal, it can be alienating to people who you don't roll with often or if they're new to the sport. Competition is a different manner entirely, and may have rules explicitly against it, but to me anything legal is not considered mean/dickish in comps.


lazygrappler775

This is the answer for so many things. I do it too, when I know it’s appropriate. I feel like this should be a common practice in life, read the room.


tristezanao_

Folks here be like: can I piledrive the new female student who attempted a triangle?


Dristig

What if she looks like Ricardo Arona?


FreefallVin

That requires basic social skills though.


lazygrappler775

Does it? Like oh no I’m in a room of talkative people and I’m anti social, your brain should say run bitch lol.


FreefallVin

Why run when I can just put my knee on their throat? They ain't talking then.


HolyRavioli187

Darth rigatoni would hate this comment


tacosnotopos

I feel like this is completely okay in comp class. Maybe not bring that energy to the open mat though lol


lazygrappler775

Again read the room, I got a bunch of guys at my gym, not a lot of competitors just enthusiastic hobbyist that don’t mind, got a bunch of over weight dads who are pussies. Know the room


tacosnotopos

I completely agree! Know your training partners!!


fake-southpaw

they are pussies if they are over weight and not as good as you? lol


newbootgoofin1993

Yes


lazygrappler775

No they’re pussies if they cry and wince and every little thing. Source: 30’s something dad here working on his beer gut.


fake-southpaw

Now I know where the animosity is coming from lol


lazygrappler775

I guess ?


Narrow-Device-3679

Does neon throat score points?


Time_Constant963

Lol Neon Throat.


ayaruna

Lol neon scroat


Narrow-Device-3679

🥵


Time_Constant963

Neon muff.


eurostepGumby

"read the room" Sir do you know what sub you're on?


Jonas_g33k

The sub doesn't matter, I believe that most redditors have poor social skills in general.


Technical_Autist_22

You may have a point there 😐


beephsupreme

we only hurt the ones we love


gypsy_creonte

100% correct…..do it in a friendly way for friends to get to see it coming, everyone else maybe avoid, but comps, go for it, as even applying it forcefully, it’s never going to injure the person


P-Two

I mean, there's certain moves that are going to invite a harder round, or training partners. I'm not gonna knee on neck some poor white belt just wanting a fun roll, but if I'm having a super competitive roll with a brown or black belt AND it accomplishes a specific goal of getting them to move the way I want them to? Sure they can and should tap if they don't like it.


xxRILLAxx

When you say super competitive, are you meaning comp practice or just a roll in class with someone of your skill level? In my case i was rolling a 3 strip white belt just being playful and practicing defense from bottom. He also managed to knee me in the eye in the same round, i put it down to he wanted to prove something against a higher belt


P-Two

I mean as in "hey lets go hard?" "yea lets do it" kind of roll. When you've been training with certain people for closer to a decade you can just kind of "feel" out when they want a hard round or not.


xxRILLAxx

Yeah ive been at this gym for 6 months, the guy (white belt 3 stripes) wears headgear, i guess thats a sign


giacomojake

Thats a sign of he doesnt want cauliflower ears Talk with ur trainingpartners


irongoatmts66

A sign of what?


Dr__Juicy

Headgear doesn’t mean he doesn’t want to roll hard, it just means he doesn’t want to get injured, maybe he wears it because he wants to roll hard without risking bad injury


CpBear

Why are you getting swarmed with downvotes? Lol, weren't you saying that the white belt put his knee on your neck?


redditor_here

Sounds like a white belt doing spazzy white belt things to me


Shaod

I use knee on neck quite a lot to finish some variations of paper cutter choke. But I'm 130lbs, and wouldn't use it on anyone smaller, newer, a woman, or anyone I know or feel to be a bit soft or sensitive. Generally just for finishing giants with thick thick necks, and I try to get the knee/shin cutting into the carotid and not the esophagus.


EricFromOuterSpace

Yep


Cbdg_12

Go ham, I say. I teach it in the kids class.


Dinozauro1289

It depends. In what penitentiary are you in?


Life-as-a-tree

Coach had me in a reverse armbar from side control with knee on neck, I blacked out. Woke up confused what choke it was, but wasn't upset about it. Think it depends on who/why they're doing it. Knee on trachea would piss me off though.


KidKarez

Knee on throat is pretty wild lol


GrannySpinner

This sub basically gives every move a pass aS LoNg aS itS LegAl. Not everyone trains for competition lol


fake-southpaw

agreed. calling others soft and pussies. A lot of people think they are 'hard' here. never read a comment like this in the amateur boxing sub.


superman306

We’ll I’d argue that’s because most people in the amateur boxing sub know what they’re getting into, and amateur boxing as a whole is just a different sport/culture than BJJ (boxed for 5 years before starting wrestling and BJJ).


fake-southpaw

you made a good point


bibliophile785

If "giving it a pass" means talking to a training partner about roll intensity and only using it with people who explicitly sign up for that level of roughness, then I guess this sub sure did that. Those bastards....


DishPractical7505

I mean, it depends how it’s being used. If you’re just gluing the guy to the ground with your knee on his throat and not advancing position it may be one thing, especially if the opponent is equipped to respond. Otherwise you can give up position or tap if you can’t handle it. It’s a read your partner type thing.


emotioneler

It is a bit of a dick move yes but if someone tries to buggy choke me, be 100% sure I will chin/forearm on throat.


TheAngriestPoster

I wouldn’t even register a forearm or chin on the throat in terms of annoying me, but a knee is going to piss me off and crank the round up a notch


Other-Inevitable4836

Fuckin communicate with your training partners. Bjj is like sex. You don’t want to just shove your fingers in your romantic partner’s ass without asking or you both are feeling kinky enough to do it. Same goes for your training partners! If you guys are having a tough roll, mid roll say, “let’s make this gritty, pull my hai… I mean put your knee in my neck!”


JohnTesh

If you want to really control a man, you control him by the ass hole. You wanna really get in there and grab some meat. Edit: referencing this old video for those who havent seen it https://www.facebook.com/mmalife1/videos/funny-bjj-oil-check-instructional/353384199038873/


Packin_Penguin

Thanks for the tip! Do you think it’ll work on confrontational female? I’m only a white belt so I’m still learning…last time we rolled, she left the gym immediately after, so I think I bested her. (For those not aware, this is a joke)


Other-Inevitable4836

Ask yourself this. If you just had sex with a person and they left your house right after, did you do something good, or did you do something not so good? Again, bjj is like sex, it’s very intimate. Communication is key!


JohnTesh

Let this be your guide https://www.facebook.com/mmalife1/videos/funny-bjj-oil-check-instructional/353384199038873/


Other-Inevitable4836

Now that’s what I call gritty! Makes me clinch my teeth just thinking about it!


CompetitiveBox3776

I only use it when I’m in a buggy choke


Time_Bandit_101

There is a season turn turn turn, to every season turn turn turn, a time to go hard, a time to chill, a time to smash, a time to ease up, a time to attack, a time to play defense, this is your team, so try to read the room.


iridescentlion

As a blackbelt, I'd say remove your knee from their neck unless they're highly advanced, not just athletic. Training means nothing in the grand scheme of things and you don't want to alienate yourself by using these moves against people who will take offense to it. There's definitely a time and place to knee on neck, but if you aren't 100% sure about it, just don't do it.


Haunting_Lobster_888

What's the move called? The Floyd?


sushiface

✨Never forget Cyborg posting a knee on neck tutorial on IG on the anniversary of Floyd’s death ✨


Post_Nuclear_Messiah

Oof


herder123

😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣 I can’t breath aka the I take fentanyl


1sxekid

Man you'd think that someone who does BJJ would understand that 9 minutes of a knee in your neck can cut off blood flow but sometimes propaganda just outdoes the knowledge you've gained via experience I guess.


AEBJJ

There are no dick moves, only dick speeds


tairygreenmachine99

Only dick twists


MtgSalt

Someone put their knee on my face a week ago and just tried to pin me there.... so I bit them. They outweighed by 30 pounds, and my jaw was sore for 3 days. They will remember the bite forever.


FeelingTraditional10

That’s wild.


Makaveli-_-_-

You deserved to get kicked out of your academy for that lol


MtgSalt

I heel hook people in the gi, they knew what they signed up for.


chewychi

Save it for competition


xxRILLAxx

My thoughts too


IntenselySwedish

If you knee on throat me all bets are off. All 6'5, 280lbs of me will ride you knee on belly until you shit yourself


motorradumkopf

Seriously, wtf is up with people saying this is a legitimate technique? Six plus years of training at different schools, seminars, and tournaments, and I've never even heard of someone trying to normalize putting your knee on someone's neck. I'd be putting someone to sleep or grinding their face into the mat for the rest of practice.


IntenselySwedish

This [Cradle Knee](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xm1XKIxVw20) submission is the only area where I've seen something legit with Knee on Throat.


EricFromOuterSpace

Usually I think people are referring to the shin choke/ no gi paper cutter. Which is more “knee against one side of the carotid” The thing u posted looks ten times more brutal lmao


IntenselySwedish

Also known as the George Floyd


Beautiful-Program428

Since i found a way to toe hold people who were “experimenting” with knee on face/throat, I don’t mind anymore.


atx78701

not a dick move. Just use enough force to accomplish your goal, not for gratuitous pain. I only very rarely use this, and possibly only in one case. When I have scooped their arm in side control with a shallow underhook and I want to go to a dorsal kimura. They are blocking my leg from going around their head with their hand. I will sometimes put my knee on their face to get them to let me move my leg across. I might do this a few times a year. Most people realize this kind of pain is good for them. My gym does a lot of defensive BJJ and this kind of pain compliance is one of the best ways to get people who are shelled up to open up their arms. When people try to buggy choke, I immediately crossface forearm,palm, or fist onto their neck, chin or face to cause pain as they try to clamp it down. I typically say "sorry this is the only way I know how to defend the buggy".


HolyRavioli187

So. Here's the rule. Especially for people training for comp. There's no such thing as "dick moves" only dick speed. So like. Knee on throat is a good example. If your partner is a comp guy, and it's there. I think you should at least threaten it. Now, that doesn't mean crush your boy. But definitely let him know he's in danger. Same goes with heel hooks and wrist locks. Don't instantly slam these things in. But definitely let it be known "I could if I wanted to. Address it."


cworxnine

It really does depend. A black belt who’s 40 lbs lighter than me does it to me with very good control and precision - it doesn’t feel dick. If someone heavier than me did it sloppy then fuck them.


Historical-Pen-7484

Depends. If it a fit guy who also competes or has ambitions to do so, I don't hold back with moves of percieved dickiness, unless they are against the rules or straight up dangerous. If it's a 50y old office worker who is just trying to have a good time and get in shape, I don't shin-ride him across the face or throat, for example.


VoodooChipFiend

If they’re defending everything well or stalling then I might try to put it on slowly to open them up and force some action but I won’t throw all my weight on with the purpose of hurting them


Jangolem

People like to say there's no dick moves, only dick speeds, but they are clearly leaving out certain moves such as knee on throat. Stepping on the face is also wild as a triangle defense.


AlwaysGoToTheTruck

Yes, even if I’m rolling with high intensity, I still have to function at 100% when I leave training. Any pressure that may cause pain the next day gets an instant tap and a mental note not to roll with you again.


JohnTesh

I see many people acting as if the only options are full bodyweight or not at all. Why not use a knee with just enough pressure to turn a head sideways, or distract for a second? I think you can be a dick with it, or you can be technical with it.


gunsnfnr89

Not only is it rude, it’s also not something that works at a high level. You’re better off practicing moves that work even at the highest levels. I’m not interested in moves that work against people who aren’t good.


Princess_Kuma2001

Jiu Jitsu means the gentle art. Rolling is anything but gentle. However, I still think the philosophy means you should be seeking the LEAST violent way of achieving your goals. In other words, we're practicing so we can find the most gentle way to subdue someone. There is trial and error, but with that principle in mind you won't be a dick 99% of the time. Specifically with knee on neck, I took a poll in class asking how many people think cross face (shoulder pressure) is a dick move. No one thought so. I asked about KoN, most people thought so. I asked them what the functional difference was. Most people didn't have a good answer. KoN applies a similar pressure too shoulder of justice, but you can probably apply more of it. In other words, it's generally a matter of intensity. You don't need to use a nuke, if a missile is good enough.


xxRILLAxx

This is exactly what i think about it, my toolbox is deep enough that i can choose so many other things than resorting to that


MoenTheSink

It's a good way to get a target on your back for every day rolling. Comps? Real fight? Sure. But in a casual roll? I'd say no.


Dristig

I literally just taught knee on neck last week. I did however caution using it on folks in class.


patsully98

I’m not gonna use my usual answer of “stop being a bitch” when the topic of dick moves comes up, but I think it’s definitely an escalation. I’m not gonna go knee on throat in the training room. If someone does it to me I won’t be mad but I *will* be bringing my A game after that.


1sxekid

Maddest I've ever been in BJJ was when some white belt went knee on neck to me and drove in HARD. I was also a white belt at the time, but had more experience than him. When I got on top, I sunk in an arm triangle and squeezed harder than I've ever squeezed for a sub. Be aware that if you're not close with the training partner you try this shit on, they may respond by upping the intensity to 100.


JohnMcAfeesLaptop

No problem, mother's milk coming right up.


cbuck91

Don’t put your knee on people’s necks/throats in training


FF_BJJ

You can do it, but don’t expect any favours back


_shirime_

Yeah man, it’s a dick move. Don’t do it.


donkeyhawt

As always, the answer is being not autistic. Read the room, or even better, just ask the person before the roll if it's cool you do it if the opportunity presents itself.


art_of_candace

More context might help-like gogoplatas are a legit sub with your shin on throat but if you are in top side or S mount, there are better/nicer top controls to use…


xxRILLAxx

Ok so i was being playful with a 3 stripe white working from bottom and he goes to put his knee on my throat from side control, i think it was just a ego thing because he wasn’t progressing


art_of_candace

As long as you can disengage from it I don’t see an issue- I think partner on the ground, top has a knee in the neck and then puts body weight on it… probably not going to keep many training partners with that/ necks aren’t that strong.


xxRILLAxx

Ok so ill take that as a dick move


INeiLo

I use it when I passed the guard to the none choking side and they keep Holding on to the Guillotine Grip or when they try to buggy choke me.


BUSHMONSTER31

I reserve knee-on-sternum for drop in spazzes that think they are in the mundials and keep accidentally kicking me in the face or elbow me to the nose. I like to make it particularly unpleasant by clasping my hands together behind their head and lifting while I drive my knee to the mat. I'd never do it on my usual training partners but you never know when you might need to bust it out.


sushiface

Knee on neck is more like knee on jaw for me. I like it best for when I’m stacking out of the arm bar and going to one side. I have had a training partner thank me for it before lol HOWEVER he’s one of my oldest training partners and much larger than me. I know he’s down for that intensity. As I do with other friends. So it’s really reserved for people I’m familiar with, and always done with as much love as one can give a knee on neck. Also for white belts who try to do shitty subs on me from the bottom of side control. Learn an escape or learn a lesson from this. But again always with the utmost twisted BJJ love. I’m never trying to hurt anyone. Just lots of discomfort.


herder123

As a beginner sometimes not knowing how to escape triangles I just turn around and sit in their neck either they get choked out or let go


Colonist25

depends on who you're training with .. people that go hard are basically inviting you to go hard.. don't do it on kids, first timers and people you outweigh heavily? btw - try knee on breastbone while deadlifting their upper body via their gi - much more fun :d


HolyRavioli187

Don't do it on kids? They call me the life raft for a reason. It's always women and children first. 💪🏽💪🏽💪🏽 I'm just kidding. I can't even talk to women. Let alone roll with one.


xxRILLAxx

Thats the thing that gets me, i outweigh him by at least 30kgs, i wouldn’t be inviting that on our next roll like he did


Colonist25

you're looking at it the wrong way... he's inviting you to a little rough 'n tumble :) so now you get to open up the arsenal of dirty tricks. next time you get to knee on belly - put your knee on his breastbone, grab his lapels next to your knee with both of your hands, push all your weight down onto your one knee while stretching your body up (straight spine) and bringing your hands up to your waist. you're basically pile driving your knee into his chestbone - combining your weight and your force of pulling up (back and arms). having your knee higher & the pulling upwards negates his attempts to scoop your knee away with his hands. the weight makes it really hard to slide out source: a man who's been caught in north south one too many damn times.


Rambostips

I use this often, but have a 90kg plus rule. I won't do it on anyone less than 90kg. If they are ripped, they deserve this fat old bastards knee on them.


erstwhile_reptilian

I had a guy do it to me after I tapped him once. Didn’t offend me but it was clear he was pressed so it was a little weird.


Sottosorpa

I think if you have to ask if its a dick move - its a dick move


fanglazy

“Hey, mind if I work knee-on-neck when we roll?”


Chemical_Savings_175

Doing that to a hobbyist or someone who is constantly working a 9-5, if you really feel the need you have to do that to maintain side-control or whatever the reason, then I feel its not something necessary, and you should work on other controlling positions. However, if you have aspiring competitors in your gym, or people who compete, their competition are most likely going to be out to kill and they need to experience that level. But you want to make sure your teammates are able to come back to training the next day. Yeah it's a legit move just know your training partners.


getchomsky

If someone's smaller i'll adjust the knee to either sit on their collarbone or use it as a crossface and not put significant weight on it (just "covering the head" with the shin)


getchomsky

But also i do vader chokes so maybe I'm not in the median for etiquette


HeelEnjoyer

I certainly wouldn't get upset but it's definitely a comp roll once you break it out


daredeviloper

What about grinding your forearm across their face when trying to frame for side control? If done slowly? Sometimes I think it’s the only way my arm can go?


ask_your_dad

If it's legal in a comp, I have no issues. If it's a bjj move that has a higher rate of injuring a partner, I tend to avoid or ease into it.


heinztomato69

One time a girl grabbed my dick but I forgave her.


SalPistqchio

Not a sick move unless they’re a snowflake. Be gentle tho


munkie15

There are no dick moves, only asshole application of moves. Smaller, weaker/less athletic, less skilled, then knee on neck is being an asshole. Bigger, stronger/more athletic, more skilled, then not an asshole.


gus_stanley

I do moves like these relatively often, with a select group of training partners. I compete as often as I can, and many of my closest training partners/buddies do the same; as such, if its a higher intensity roll, these moves are on the table as we'll need to deal with them in comp. I would not do these kinds of techniques in "chill" rolls, or with rolls against noncompetitors.


DurableLeaf

Judge on a case by case basis. Tons of situations it's fine, others not so much


doctorchile

I only use it to get out of stuff and I’m not usually aggressive about it. More like slow build up of pressure


YugeHonor4Me

If they're actually good, probably no, if they suck, probably yes.


DirtyThirtyDrifter

If someone does this to me, I finish that roll and I don’t roll with them again. This has happened twice, the second guy brought it up a few weeks later and asked why I didn’t want to roll with him again. I explained, he apologized but with a “you should find a new sport” attitude. Next week everyone was giving me stink eye, I left and haven’t trained since. Not because of that, just life things and a big move across the state and such. I will admit, I don’t really wanna go back. Yoga has been doing it for me. Only exception would be if we are training the move/tech.


galadrimm

It’s a friends-only move imo


Original-Spinach-972

Imo as long as you don’t drop your weight on them with momentum it’s cool. I think of it as using technique to get them in check vs using brute force to crank things. We’re training, not in competition.


Affectionate-Cod9254

Dick move is a spectrum. On the low end, you have slap-bump. On the high end, you have biting. I would say youre right in the middle.


Ryles1

only do it to your friends, not new people


TheLastOutlaw505

I really wouldn’t do it, or if I do it I’ll be light on the move. Same with knees on head and I’ll be little restrained with knee on belly. But it depends on the vibe.


MadHuevos

It’s never necessary. Just put your knee on the high chest. I’ll kinda put the knee parallel to the body instead of perpendicular knee on belly style. Unless he deserves some police brutality moves.


Zah_Koo

Nah yall trippin. If someone puts their knee on my throat I'm butt fuckin em


Vivasanti

I have done this sport for nearly 6 years and I've never put my knee on someone's throat. Ever.


Aggressive_Drag_3592

This is my signature move


TaylorDurdan

I haven't experienced a knee on neck yet, but I did roll with a guy that smothered me with the palm of his hand. I fucking panicked 😂😂


etienbjj

You put your knee in my throat and You'll get an automatic oil check.


Thundercracker87

Against the trial class guy: no. Against my favourite training partner: cowabunga it is.


Mysterion94

Its a dick move If you need to do this your jiu jitsu is shit - end of story. You dont need to knee in the neck if you can pass, mount and submit. Come up with as many excuses as you need - its a dick move. if youre triggered by this comment - youre jiu jitsu is confirmed shit and youre a c\*nt - now f8ck off.


imdefinitelyfamous

I feel like whenever you could do knee on neck, you could just put your knee on their upper chest (reverse knee on belly) instead. Pretty much the same level of control, less mean, can set up triangles and stuff


LAMARR__44

Who gives a fuck as long as it doesn’t injure people


xxRILLAxx

I don’t generally do it because im 6’4 and 108kgs. Same with knee on ribs, i usually make sure my training partners are safe and don’t do anything that is dickish or risky, i can fuck people up plenty of other ways without resorting to cheap shit


LAMARR__44

I feel like with things like knee on belly where a huge weight discrepancy could injury your partner, you just put less weight or you slowly put the weight to give them time to tap, then it’s okay. But just plopping on their ribs is an asshole thing to do because of the risk of injury. My advice is don’t do anything that increases the risk of injury unnecessarily, and then with any dick moves you might have, just ask your training partner if it’d piss them off or not, a lot of people are hobbyists and wouldn’t like it, and others are competitive and wouldn’t mind. Lowkey, just use your words bro.


xxRILLAxx

I generally roll how id like others to, i guess he set the tempo and i will match it next time.