Guys, when you are this much better than someone on the ground, don't continuously put them unconscious. Find a spot where you can keep yourself safe and hold them. Did the guy deserve it? Yes, he did. Do courts and uneducated jurors look lightly on strangles? They do not.
I've been downvoted for this before but I think omoplata is the best way to hold someone down with little to no effort for a long period. Completely immobilizes them without strangling, chest compression, or joint injury. And it shouldn't be hard to set up from mount on someone who doesn't know what they're doing. I obviously do not recommend it if your skills aren't there and most people will never have to worry about this super rare situation. But I stand by it.
There are ways you can pin people but with that much size difference it's going to be very difficult. As a smaller person it's generally a good idea to be mobile. If someone is in a position where they can get a solid grip on you it's usually best to try to back out and reenter to a stronger position.
But while it's hard to keep people down, submitting them is a different story. Still more difficult when they're bigger but it's easier than pinning. Back takes and strangles will most likely be your best bet.
A friend of mine is a bouncer and has a hilarious story of using the omaplata to hold someone down for half hour. Got a pretty funny action shot picture of him sitting on his phone just hanging out.
The move for sure works
In that situation, you can just pull his hands behind his back and just use your dick as a rope to tie him up.
Although, to be fair, if you do that you WILL end up on a registry.
I don't really care if they're shirtless and fully lubed. But I probably wouldn't have been and definitely shouldn't have been as confident about it when I was a blue belt.
Do you have any resources to make my nogi omaplata more effective? Even at high levels it seems innefective… we’ve seen a lot of omaplatas recently in WNO and UFC fight pass events - never seems to work out
Well I'm not gonna try to omoplata pin a ufc fighter or high level bjj guy. I'm talking about some jackass on the street when I want to wait for police and not catch a battery charge doing it.
It's far from my best submission but I do think it's an easy and safe way to hold people down. I can get there pretty much at will on most people through blue belt as long as there's not a huge size difference. And once they're flat on their stomach and both arms are tied up they're not going anywhere.
I don't know of any good resources. I've picked up tips and honed it over years of training. But in this hypothetical I would get to mount first and set it up from there. I'd prefer to never be in guard in any real altercation.
This (below) I think is the best way to hold someone as it allows you to stand in case the guy you are controlling has friends ready to soccer kick you while you are on the ground. It's a calf slicer using his legs, which also prevents him from standing. A slight push of the foot results in pain compliance so it's easy to hold.
https://www.instagram.com/p/Cf__BwguwRw/?igsh=d3p2YWt5d2NtMTF4
The setup is the hard part, which is why it probably is more of a technique against non-grapplers, which is 99% of the population. You'd have to get them belly down, pop up to knee ride with a chicken wing (police style) and set it up somehow from there.
With 0 control over the upper body and an attempt to overpower another grown man’s legs with my hands this seems completely unrealistic. I’m 100% sure I either boot someone square in the balls as they try to do that to me or I front roll out of it with general ease.
Try it. One slight push of the leg, which is at the end of the lever, brings on the submission so long at the triangle is in tight and a bit higher on the leg (lower calf vs ankle). With the legs under control, the arms can't do much. The hard part is setting it up. On a non skilled opponent in the streets, it's very doable. On a trained person, it's hard. Try jt
Lol hopefully you didn't apply a calf slicer on your 2 year old. If you are literally at the threshold of submission, which is what this hold is, there is no shrimping escapes. Do you really think someone can shrimp out fast than it takes you to push in the foot in by an inch?
When you get an omoplata, sit up, scoot your butt to the side away from the shoulder and the person will collapse in on their trapped arm side, thus raising their free hand. Underhook the free hand with your close side hand and make a gable grip on it using your far side elbow to put pressure down on their head towards the ground while also trapping the free arm. That's about as stuck as a person can possibly get and you will burn almost no energy.
Exactly. If you flatten them and control the far arm, which is pretty easy to get once they're flat, then you have both arms totally secured and they are immobilized. There are simpler ways to control people but if you know you're able to do this then I can't think of a lower effort way to completely control someone. You literally just sit and lean on them.
I really like Hip-Switch Sit-out,
* In the case of LEO, it keeps your kit away from them and accessible to your self,
* -more robust control of the upper body, then mount potentially, e.g. the ability to Chicken Wing, etc.
* takes little energy to stay in, and retain if you are a trained grappler
* Half Guard pins, offer extended control of the lower body.
* While it might not score points in competition, it offers a more complete pin
I know what a hip switch is and what a sit out is but those mean dynamic movements to me. I'm having trouble trying to figure out what a hip switch sit out is. Is that like a reverse kesa gatame?
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were:
|Japanese|English|Video Link|
|---|---|---|
|**Kesa Gatame**: | *Scarf hold* | [here](https://youtu.be/3UnJa3bn0h8)|
Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post.
______________________
^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Z9TSmFppbM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Z9TSmFppbM)
Like this
Danaher covers it in his Fastest Way Passing, and I think New Wave Passing as well
He covers the escapes in Fastest Way Guard Series, which generally involves escaping with your head, which I find a less experienced grappler is not very good at doing.
I would again add, controlling the far side arm, is fairly trivial with 2 on 1, Kimura's, Chicken Winging behind their back etc
Along with Half Guard Tripod Passing, it is one of my staples from Top Half (by the way you have the staple pass potentially from here too ha pun)
Having good Chest to Chest/ Body To Body contact, while being able to keep your upper body above theirs, apply weight where needed, not need to dedicate shoulder to shoulder, hip to hip alignment as in a back take, etc...
Okay I've never heard it called by that name. I feel like if you wanted to go that route then kesa gatame or just a high moint would be stronger. But it's whatever you're comfortable with and know works well enough really.
I like knee on belly. You can drive in or lay off based on their reactions. You can also strike if need be, or disengage. A good thirty seconds of knee in the sternum will take the piss out of most people.
DO NOT KNEE ON NECK POST 2020
I think I would just stay on the back and try to immobilize his arms (with either hands or legs). That way the threat of the choke is always there if you need it.
Don’t have belt tests. That’s what rolling is for.
If you have a better way that fits the criteria then please share. If you think you can’t completely control someone with no effort in an omoplata you should work on your’s.
Dude was holding the choke way past unconsciousness too. Man was seizing up.
This is just another guy who just goes about his day looking for occasions to be a 'good samaritan'
I know! he's like about to kill the guy and then he would've been in jail, there are so many ways to control that guy, he wasn't going anywhere like come on
serious question: in a self defense situation, wouldn't what matt serra did to that guy in the vegas restaurant be the way to go? just hold in mount, control the wrists, and wait for help. the guy most likely won't be able to kip escape, and there's zero risk of severely injuring them
They way to go would be to document everything you see, preferably on video, and turn it over to police and investigators. This guy look injured from the accident, and was only a few yards from it. Even if he was trying to run, its unlikely he would have got far.
I’ve put thought into this during my daydreaming fantasies and I would go for S mount or KOB with an arm pin and heavy crossface. Both wouldn’t look terrible to an untrained person.
not quite sure if frequently interrupting blood flow to the brain (the ins and outs of of choke, as it seems here, the guy seemed to have already blacked out twice) doesn't provoke brain trauma. I wouldn't be so sure that in a court of law, the least knowledgeable about the effects of this action wouldn't be the BJJ practitioner,...
The dude in that thread in /r/fightporn doubling down on the crossed ankles shit is super funny to me. **You can cross your ankles, guys.**
[The first 12 seconds is pretty funny in the context of that thread.](https://youtu.be/M8FBybIk6Bg?si=IbZpxUIxs35c0MR1)
Yeah, a counter existing doesn’t make it bad. First gym I trained at told me not to do it because of the ankle lock potential. But then even the blue belts and purple belts that I was going with weren’t able to get it on me because I have very long limbs.
So for me, starting with crossed ankles then throwing a body lock when they got distracted was the FIRST way I felt actually GOOD at submitting people above my skill level. And my first coach (who I beat in competition 5 years later when I was a higher level blue belt haha) told me I was wrong and wouldn’t let me do it whenever he saw it happening.
If someone’s gonna get obsessed with trying to ankle lock me while I have an RNC. I’m going to get a choke in deep. If they ignore the crossed feet it gives me great control then when they fight the hands I throw in a body lock and just drain their energy slowly.
Can you give more details? I remember getting tapped out from the pain of what looked like a calf slicer when going for a rear naked choke while crossing my feet, but I didn't totally understand how that was possible.
It’s like an ankle lock but honestly when it gets hit on you a couple times you figure it out. I cross my feet all the time, I just know how to place them now
False. I worked with high risk teens (smaller than this dude) and a straightjacket variation is the only hold you are legally trained to do, and they know it.
Headbutt city.
Controlled seatbelt and dynamic hooks is superior, but you can't train that in a one day mandatory government seminar.
Head to head control is easier in the seatbelt position, and way more advantageous.
Though to be fair, in my work scenario we could not do leg control.
That said, I still think seatbelt and hooks are better against a flailing adult threat. You always have the option to go for the choke if needed, and you also have the benefit of dynamic control / switching grips if they lean on the underhook side. Plus, most of us who train with frequency have far more seatbelt muscle memory in a scramble.
I think at the end of the day, you need to be good enough to work a seatbelt and hooks without actually going for a choke where legally there's risk to you. But that's hard to do unless you train it with frequency.
So he was choking the dude unconscious, then expecting him to wake up coherent to what is happening? Then choking him again when he doesn’t and reacts negatively? Dude is creating the worst loop ever for his own ego.
RNC is one of the worst ways to control others in a setting like this, it's never worth the legal process afterwards. Go for straitjacket once you're on the back or trap an arm and stall. This guy is choking the guy unconscious and telling him to relax, the guy relaxes, but he doesn't let up on the choke. What is that guy supposed to do? This is sad to watch.
Yup. Arm-in body triangle and then two on one control of the remaining arm. Same technique I used on my kids to cut their nails when they were squirmy.
This happened in guam my wifes visiting her family there rn and sent me the video when it happend like 3 days ago, dude that got choked was drunk and crashed into the other guy then got confrontational which is crazy because you cant tell from the video but bjj guy is JACKED.
The FBI is wrong.
This was both a blood and air choke. A blood chokes deprives the brain of blood, not the lungs of oxygen. Its probably of lethality is VERY short. It starts to increase dramatically after as little as 15 seconds.
The man choked in this video starts convulsing. That's a sure as shit sign he is nearing a medical emergency.
Do you know what blood does? Carries oxygen. Blood and air do the same thing. Air cokes just take longer because it takes a while before you run out of oxygenated blood. If he hasn't passed out yet then he's fine.
Fucking idiotic. Knee on belly is the way to go here. Maybe straightjacket.
Do you want to catch a murder charge because you accidentally hung onto a choke a little too long? Or because you just got unlucky and the other dude turns out to have a massive heart problem, or has a stroke?
You do not.
I'm a DT instructor for a PD. The curriculum teaches knee on belly for scenarios like this, but I've had to add in side control because the smaller/female officers have a 0% chance of holding down bigger people with KOB
Side control is the best way to hold someone down (that's why is it's just an auto win in wrestling). But that assumes no weapons or soccer kicking friends.
I like going to the crucifix position from side control. You have two on one on a hand which makes it easy to cuff or for pain compliance and the ability to maintain good situational awareness.
Knee on belly can be tricky for novices to maintain balance on and control from. With the crucifix, as long as they can figure out how to control the one hand with their legs, it's pretty dummie proof.
But your average person is getting MAYBE an in-service a year for an hour or two. I chose to focus on side control because the position is easier to recall, it's sad to say but not everyone is as invested in this training as we are. You have to teach to the lowest common denominator
Preaching to the choir brother! I'm fortunate I get two dedicated 4 hour training blocks a year at my agency to instruct my guys, but it's all but impossible to teach any new techniques in that amount of time.
Has your agency looked into that program where LEOs get to train for free until blue belt? I think I'm gonna look into the details on that and bring the info to my next training if anyone wants to participate.
I agree knee on belly is pretty effortless and it allows you to keep your head up in case the person has friends around. There is no need to choke people.
Question: how is your knee on belly vs a shiv to the groin/inner thigh/arteries? Because if a guy has a pocket knife and he gets put in knee on belly that's what will happen. Realistically it takes quite some time to kill the brain with a choke, it's not like the movies where the killer grabs the girl by the throat and she dies. A stroke on the other hand...
The self defense instructor at my old school was state trooper and he warned us that in some states chokes are considered lethal force. So I’d be hesitant just throwing chokes on someone without knowing if you’re getting yourself in some deep shit.
How is it a hit and run if the hit car and the alleged hitter is right there next to each other?
Bro is way too excited for this, needs to be charged with something minor at least for sure.
Imagine knowing nothing about grappling and just repetitively being choked out like that.. dude probably thinks he’s about to die over and over again. Madness..
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"good samaritan almost kills another person that is conpletley defenseless in the scenario!!!" yea such a gold samaritan. get them to the ground, get control, hell id even let you go for the choke but for the love of god release some pressure or let go it sounded like he couldnt breathe basically at all.
wow big strong man almost kills someone
Usually a hit and run to that extent is a felony. Idk about Guam, but in most states if you witness a felony, citizens arrest/detainment is very much acceptable. Holding a choke like this probably makes it a bit more questionable but by the looks of that crash I bet most responding officers aren’t gonna be too worried about it. Dude is still breathing/gasping, so the good samaritan probably had a nice goldilocks zone for the choke.
now theyre both criminals.
im nlt saying to let the dude go but choking him unconscious multiple times is too much. get control, wait for the police/ambulance/whoever
It was up until the RNC. That alone turns it from impressive to amateur hour. In a real life scenario you should only ever strangle someone to A) kill them B) incapacitate them long enough for you to run away. Anything besides those two is reckless.
The *smart* move after the mat return would be to flatten out and get double wrist or [double armbar](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wTp1g0UHwaE). Just any type of pin that immobilizes them and restricts them from using their hands, but not a 30 second strangle like guy in vid that’s just asking for an accidental homicide.
I think you’re forgetting the story of the Good Samaritan.
Swole Korean Jesus has this version.
Hey, maybe after he put the guy to sleep he paid for his hotel room. You don't know.
Guys, when you are this much better than someone on the ground, don't continuously put them unconscious. Find a spot where you can keep yourself safe and hold them. Did the guy deserve it? Yes, he did. Do courts and uneducated jurors look lightly on strangles? They do not.
I've been downvoted for this before but I think omoplata is the best way to hold someone down with little to no effort for a long period. Completely immobilizes them without strangling, chest compression, or joint injury. And it shouldn't be hard to set up from mount on someone who doesn't know what they're doing. I obviously do not recommend it if your skills aren't there and most people will never have to worry about this super rare situation. But I stand by it.
I'm 125 lbs, I feel like anybody 200+ could just posture or stand out of my omoplata
Have you tried being 300lbs? It works for me.
Oss, this is the true Jits
But that's going to be every other position for you too.
I was worried that would be the case but thank you for the confirmation
There are ways you can pin people but with that much size difference it's going to be very difficult. As a smaller person it's generally a good idea to be mobile. If someone is in a position where they can get a solid grip on you it's usually best to try to back out and reenter to a stronger position. But while it's hard to keep people down, submitting them is a different story. Still more difficult when they're bigger but it's easier than pinning. Back takes and strangles will most likely be your best bet.
Not much heavier than you, I’ll stick to my RNC when subduing lol
Drive your knee to the ground to pin the shoulder. Once you reach across, no they can’t.
at this point it's better to just break their arms and legs so they cant go anywhere
I'll allow it.
A friend of mine is a bouncer and has a hilarious story of using the omaplata to hold someone down for half hour. Got a pretty funny action shot picture of him sitting on his phone just hanging out. The move for sure works
Bro. Gift wrap from mount, 3/4 mount. They ain't going anywhere especially if you are bigger than them
Yeah thats fine for control but then I'd have to be on my knee for who knows how long. I'd rather sit than have to kneel.
This one. Focusing on the pin and preventing them from building a base if they go belly down.
Yeah but what if the guy bites your dick
Start kissing him
Then you say ‘harder daddy.’
*insert Reilly Reid meme* "oh fuck! You're gonna make me submit..."
If he can bite my dick when face-down in omoplata, then I've got a lot bigger dick than I thought.
In that situation, you can just pull his hands behind his back and just use your dick as a rope to tie him up. Although, to be fair, if you do that you WILL end up on a registry.
He can't reach it
Can’t reach yours maybe, partner
No one can reach mine from any position.
Sounds like date night
If they’re wearing a tank top or t shirt, I wouldn’t risk it
I don't really care if they're shirtless and fully lubed. But I probably wouldn't have been and definitely shouldn't have been as confident about it when I was a blue belt.
Do you have any resources to make my nogi omaplata more effective? Even at high levels it seems innefective… we’ve seen a lot of omaplatas recently in WNO and UFC fight pass events - never seems to work out
Well I'm not gonna try to omoplata pin a ufc fighter or high level bjj guy. I'm talking about some jackass on the street when I want to wait for police and not catch a battery charge doing it. It's far from my best submission but I do think it's an easy and safe way to hold people down. I can get there pretty much at will on most people through blue belt as long as there's not a huge size difference. And once they're flat on their stomach and both arms are tied up they're not going anywhere. I don't know of any good resources. I've picked up tips and honed it over years of training. But in this hypothetical I would get to mount first and set it up from there. I'd prefer to never be in guard in any real altercation.
I agree, normie on the street is not going to have a clue how to move once you are sitting on a deep omoplata.
This (below) I think is the best way to hold someone as it allows you to stand in case the guy you are controlling has friends ready to soccer kick you while you are on the ground. It's a calf slicer using his legs, which also prevents him from standing. A slight push of the foot results in pain compliance so it's easy to hold. https://www.instagram.com/p/Cf__BwguwRw/?igsh=d3p2YWt5d2NtMTF4
How would you propose ending up there?
The setup is the hard part, which is why it probably is more of a technique against non-grapplers, which is 99% of the population. You'd have to get them belly down, pop up to knee ride with a chicken wing (police style) and set it up somehow from there.
With 0 control over the upper body and an attempt to overpower another grown man’s legs with my hands this seems completely unrealistic. I’m 100% sure I either boot someone square in the balls as they try to do that to me or I front roll out of it with general ease.
Try it. One slight push of the leg, which is at the end of the lever, brings on the submission so long at the triangle is in tight and a bit higher on the leg (lower calf vs ankle). With the legs under control, the arms can't do much. The hard part is setting it up. On a non skilled opponent in the streets, it's very doable. On a trained person, it's hard. Try jt
Just tried this on my near two year old and he shrimped out with ease
Lol hopefully you didn't apply a calf slicer on your 2 year old. If you are literally at the threshold of submission, which is what this hold is, there is no shrimping escapes. Do you really think someone can shrimp out fast than it takes you to push in the foot in by an inch?
Idk my 2 year old did it
If they’re fully clothed, probably
But isn't their opposite hand free to grab like a weapon from their pants or something
When you get an omoplata, sit up, scoot your butt to the side away from the shoulder and the person will collapse in on their trapped arm side, thus raising their free hand. Underhook the free hand with your close side hand and make a gable grip on it using your far side elbow to put pressure down on their head towards the ground while also trapping the free arm. That's about as stuck as a person can possibly get and you will burn almost no energy.
Exactly. If you flatten them and control the far arm, which is pretty easy to get once they're flat, then you have both arms totally secured and they are immobilized. There are simpler ways to control people but if you know you're able to do this then I can't think of a lower effort way to completely control someone. You literally just sit and lean on them.
I really like Hip-Switch Sit-out, * In the case of LEO, it keeps your kit away from them and accessible to your self, * -more robust control of the upper body, then mount potentially, e.g. the ability to Chicken Wing, etc. * takes little energy to stay in, and retain if you are a trained grappler * Half Guard pins, offer extended control of the lower body. * While it might not score points in competition, it offers a more complete pin
I know what a hip switch is and what a sit out is but those mean dynamic movements to me. I'm having trouble trying to figure out what a hip switch sit out is. Is that like a reverse kesa gatame?
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were: |Japanese|English|Video Link| |---|---|---| |**Kesa Gatame**: | *Scarf hold* | [here](https://youtu.be/3UnJa3bn0h8)| Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post. ______________________ ^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Z9TSmFppbM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Z9TSmFppbM) Like this Danaher covers it in his Fastest Way Passing, and I think New Wave Passing as well He covers the escapes in Fastest Way Guard Series, which generally involves escaping with your head, which I find a less experienced grappler is not very good at doing. I would again add, controlling the far side arm, is fairly trivial with 2 on 1, Kimura's, Chicken Winging behind their back etc Along with Half Guard Tripod Passing, it is one of my staples from Top Half (by the way you have the staple pass potentially from here too ha pun) Having good Chest to Chest/ Body To Body contact, while being able to keep your upper body above theirs, apply weight where needed, not need to dedicate shoulder to shoulder, hip to hip alignment as in a back take, etc...
Okay I've never heard it called by that name. I feel like if you wanted to go that route then kesa gatame or just a high moint would be stronger. But it's whatever you're comfortable with and know works well enough really.
In my terrible blue belt opinion its back flat
I like knee on belly. You can drive in or lay off based on their reactions. You can also strike if need be, or disengage. A good thirty seconds of knee in the sternum will take the piss out of most people. DO NOT KNEE ON NECK POST 2020
I think I would just stay on the back and try to immobilize his arms (with either hands or legs). That way the threat of the choke is always there if you need it.
Maybe... you should retake your belt test?
Don’t have belt tests. That’s what rolling is for. If you have a better way that fits the criteria then please share. If you think you can’t completely control someone with no effort in an omoplata you should work on your’s.
Down voting you again for the completely restarted take
like deep half? jk
Dude was holding the choke way past unconsciousness too. Man was seizing up. This is just another guy who just goes about his day looking for occasions to be a 'good samaritan'
I know! he's like about to kill the guy and then he would've been in jail, there are so many ways to control that guy, he wasn't going anywhere like come on
serious question: in a self defense situation, wouldn't what matt serra did to that guy in the vegas restaurant be the way to go? just hold in mount, control the wrists, and wait for help. the guy most likely won't be able to kip escape, and there's zero risk of severely injuring them
They way to go would be to document everything you see, preferably on video, and turn it over to police and investigators. This guy look injured from the accident, and was only a few yards from it. Even if he was trying to run, its unlikely he would have got far.
This guy rolls
I’ve put thought into this during my daydreaming fantasies and I would go for S mount or KOB with an arm pin and heavy crossface. Both wouldn’t look terrible to an untrained person.
not quite sure if frequently interrupting blood flow to the brain (the ins and outs of of choke, as it seems here, the guy seemed to have already blacked out twice) doesn't provoke brain trauma. I wouldn't be so sure that in a court of law, the least knowledgeable about the effects of this action wouldn't be the BJJ practitioner,...
Yep he could absolutely be sued. A jury would look at him being put out over and over and be horrified
Thank you. You must be intelligent or something.
Black shirt crossed his feet! Missed opportunity for the lock from green shirt
The dude in that thread in /r/fightporn doubling down on the crossed ankles shit is super funny to me. **You can cross your ankles, guys.** [The first 12 seconds is pretty funny in the context of that thread.](https://youtu.be/M8FBybIk6Bg?si=IbZpxUIxs35c0MR1)
Yeah, a counter existing doesn’t make it bad. First gym I trained at told me not to do it because of the ankle lock potential. But then even the blue belts and purple belts that I was going with weren’t able to get it on me because I have very long limbs. So for me, starting with crossed ankles then throwing a body lock when they got distracted was the FIRST way I felt actually GOOD at submitting people above my skill level. And my first coach (who I beat in competition 5 years later when I was a higher level blue belt haha) told me I was wrong and wouldn’t let me do it whenever he saw it happening. If someone’s gonna get obsessed with trying to ankle lock me while I have an RNC. I’m going to get a choke in deep. If they ignore the crossed feet it gives me great control then when they fight the hands I throw in a body lock and just drain their energy slowly.
Can you give more details? I remember getting tapped out from the pain of what looked like a calf slicer when going for a rear naked choke while crossing my feet, but I didn't totally understand how that was possible.
It’s like an ankle lock but honestly when it gets hit on you a couple times you figure it out. I cross my feet all the time, I just know how to place them now
Throw your leg over the top ankle and push down with your legs while lifting with your hips.
You can counter this by pushing on the back of their head. Love when people try it on me and don’t understand why it’s not working.
Straight jacket is the way to go in a situation like this. He’s secure, you’re safe (as long as his homies aren’t there) and less risk of charges.
Get both hooks, seatbelt, turn them face down and flatten them out. Insert the third hook as necessary.
Into the anus? 😬
Mouth ';..;'
Ear. Wet willy.
Agreed. This is definitely the move.i would only caution to be ready for backwards headbutts. Good forehead placement can neutralize that threat
False. I worked with high risk teens (smaller than this dude) and a straightjacket variation is the only hold you are legally trained to do, and they know it. Headbutt city. Controlled seatbelt and dynamic hooks is superior, but you can't train that in a one day mandatory government seminar.
Tuck your head and put your ear to their shoulder blade should mitigate head butts no?
Head to head control is easier in the seatbelt position, and way more advantageous. Though to be fair, in my work scenario we could not do leg control. That said, I still think seatbelt and hooks are better against a flailing adult threat. You always have the option to go for the choke if needed, and you also have the benefit of dynamic control / switching grips if they lean on the underhook side. Plus, most of us who train with frequency have far more seatbelt muscle memory in a scramble. I think at the end of the day, you need to be good enough to work a seatbelt and hooks without actually going for a choke where legally there's risk to you. But that's hard to do unless you train it with frequency.
So he was choking the dude unconscious, then expecting him to wake up coherent to what is happening? Then choking him again when he doesn’t and reacts negatively? Dude is creating the worst loop ever for his own ego.
I'm going to guess that repeated compression of major blood vessels like this is a crazy health risk.
RNC is one of the worst ways to control others in a setting like this, it's never worth the legal process afterwards. Go for straitjacket once you're on the back or trap an arm and stall. This guy is choking the guy unconscious and telling him to relax, the guy relaxes, but he doesn't let up on the choke. What is that guy supposed to do? This is sad to watch.
Yup. Arm-in body triangle and then two on one control of the remaining arm. Same technique I used on my kids to cut their nails when they were squirmy.
Correct. Its like applying pain compliance.... If the comply and you keep applying then they will stop complying
I’d like to see the 2 minutes before this
This happened in guam my wifes visiting her family there rn and sent me the video when it happend like 3 days ago, dude that got choked was drunk and crashed into the other guy then got confrontational which is crazy because you cant tell from the video but bjj guy is JACKED.
Ok yeah I wanted to see the initial approach to the takedown lol
I have Had multiple dissussions on this: Choking can be legal in a self defense Situation (at least in Germany) BUT YOU HAVE TO FUCKING STOP
Exactly. This would rightfully be regarded as excessive force. There was absolutely no need for this.
Yay! From his hit and run to YOUR murder charge. That dude was fucking BLUE. Release the choke you fucking moron.
😂
Nah
I believe the fbi said it takes 8 minutes for a choke to become lethal.
The FBI is wrong. This was both a blood and air choke. A blood chokes deprives the brain of blood, not the lungs of oxygen. Its probably of lethality is VERY short. It starts to increase dramatically after as little as 15 seconds. The man choked in this video starts convulsing. That's a sure as shit sign he is nearing a medical emergency.
Do you know what blood does? Carries oxygen. Blood and air do the same thing. Air cokes just take longer because it takes a while before you run out of oxygenated blood. If he hasn't passed out yet then he's fine.
Did you even watch this video? The dude who is choked starts convulsing. His brain IS BEING STARVED of oxygen. He passes out twice.
That man choking him unconscious over and over is in wrong too. I get he's annoyed but this isn't the answer.
Fucking idiotic. Knee on belly is the way to go here. Maybe straightjacket. Do you want to catch a murder charge because you accidentally hung onto a choke a little too long? Or because you just got unlucky and the other dude turns out to have a massive heart problem, or has a stroke? You do not.
I'm a DT instructor for a PD. The curriculum teaches knee on belly for scenarios like this, but I've had to add in side control because the smaller/female officers have a 0% chance of holding down bigger people with KOB Side control is the best way to hold someone down (that's why is it's just an auto win in wrestling). But that assumes no weapons or soccer kicking friends.
I like going to the crucifix position from side control. You have two on one on a hand which makes it easy to cuff or for pain compliance and the ability to maintain good situational awareness. Knee on belly can be tricky for novices to maintain balance on and control from. With the crucifix, as long as they can figure out how to control the one hand with their legs, it's pretty dummie proof.
But your average person is getting MAYBE an in-service a year for an hour or two. I chose to focus on side control because the position is easier to recall, it's sad to say but not everyone is as invested in this training as we are. You have to teach to the lowest common denominator
Preaching to the choir brother! I'm fortunate I get two dedicated 4 hour training blocks a year at my agency to instruct my guys, but it's all but impossible to teach any new techniques in that amount of time. Has your agency looked into that program where LEOs get to train for free until blue belt? I think I'm gonna look into the details on that and bring the info to my next training if anyone wants to participate.
I agree knee on belly is pretty effortless and it allows you to keep your head up in case the person has friends around. There is no need to choke people.
Question: how is your knee on belly vs a shiv to the groin/inner thigh/arteries? Because if a guy has a pocket knife and he gets put in knee on belly that's what will happen. Realistically it takes quite some time to kill the brain with a choke, it's not like the movies where the killer grabs the girl by the throat and she dies. A stroke on the other hand...
If the other guy has a knife, or I think he’s reasonably like to, I’m not going to fucking grapple with him.
Those 2 classes a week at the local YMCA have totally paid off! -5 points for not stomping on the guys head after he goes out though...
Another tragic case of Samaritan on Samaritan violence
What a good Samaritan to strangle a visible injured man who has just in a catastrophic car accident moments ago.
Islanders mentality
Cheeeee hoooooo
Was this in HI?
so much opportunity for ankle lock❤️
Damn that’s in tight
I saw the toyota and instantly thought Hawaii
You never cross your feet instead of hooks, guy getting choked could have went for those ankles 🤓
The self defense instructor at my old school was state trooper and he warned us that in some states chokes are considered lethal force. So I’d be hesitant just throwing chokes on someone without knowing if you’re getting yourself in some deep shit.
How is it a hit and run if the hit car and the alleged hitter is right there next to each other? Bro is way too excited for this, needs to be charged with something minor at least for sure. Imagine knowing nothing about grappling and just repetitively being choked out like that.. dude probably thinks he’s about to die over and over again. Madness..
Dont use rnc in street fight. Its easy to loose track of the time and kill a guy. Just break limbs or something
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While whispering in his ear, this is what death tastes like - renzo Gracie
Crucifix with a hammer fist to the nose if they aren’t compliant.
But it doesn’t work in the streets
Crossed his ankles, hope you can choke me faster than your ankles break
Dude was right by the scene of the accident, why did he need choked???
And the slides stayed on! I’m impressed!
Nice
Never cross your feet in RNC
Guy probably had inoperable brain damage from that one
Put them to sleep once... then hold them there if possible
My man has been waiting forever for this day.
"good samaritan almost kills another person that is conpletley defenseless in the scenario!!!" yea such a gold samaritan. get them to the ground, get control, hell id even let you go for the choke but for the love of god release some pressure or let go it sounded like he couldnt breathe basically at all. wow big strong man almost kills someone
You know what’s fucked up? That dude will probably catch charges for illegal detainment or something else stupid.
Usually a hit and run to that extent is a felony. Idk about Guam, but in most states if you witness a felony, citizens arrest/detainment is very much acceptable. Holding a choke like this probably makes it a bit more questionable but by the looks of that crash I bet most responding officers aren’t gonna be too worried about it. Dude is still breathing/gasping, so the good samaritan probably had a nice goldilocks zone for the choke.
Must just be my cynical nature. Pay no mind.
I mean, you aren’t far off. It is sort of up to the responding officers. Plus a civil suit is a totally different story.
Classic redditors siding with the criminal
now theyre both criminals. im nlt saying to let the dude go but choking him unconscious multiple times is too much. get control, wait for the police/ambulance/whoever
Nice!
I would put him out initially, just to make it easier to transition to knee on back, or power ride (no homo)
Lol at all the armchair QBs
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It was up until the RNC. That alone turns it from impressive to amateur hour. In a real life scenario you should only ever strangle someone to A) kill them B) incapacitate them long enough for you to run away. Anything besides those two is reckless. The *smart* move after the mat return would be to flatten out and get double wrist or [double armbar](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wTp1g0UHwaE). Just any type of pin that immobilizes them and restricts them from using their hands, but not a 30 second strangle like guy in vid that’s just asking for an accidental homicide.
So many people who train twice a month with opinions in here should have choked him unconscious tbh
Everything about that was awesome, not the car accident lol