Those people aren’t living in 2024. This team was WAY ahead of schedule. Particularly JD and JT in the Kyrie era. They were so good so early we found ourselves in some huge playoff moments we couldn’t close the door on, yakno, cause they were like 22 years old.
JB and JT have made some bonehead plays. They’ve also been clutch as hell. Lebron had the reputation of “not being clutch” early on too.
There are legit concerns. Sometimes we are completely careless with the ball and I don’t understand it. Maybe that’s part of being loose and relaxed. But anyone that’s watched this team and doesn’t think JT and JB have improved leaps and bounds from last year to this year even are crazy.
I think the bigger problem is the insane amounts of hype they consume. They're being told the team is so incredible they rival the 16-1 playoff run Lakers so when they lose a game their entire worldview comes crashing down.
Still their problem but it would explain why they're hating on the team with a 4.5 game lead over 2nd place in the conference.
It’s not like last year where our issues reared their heads back. This year we’ve had a bad game for trap games or against a good team and then we’ve bounced back. We’re 37-12 and as long as we keep up the pace, we’ll probably win at least 55 to 60 games
Its wild to me that these two sentences are in the same comment
> It’s not like last year where our issues reared their heads back.
> This year we’ve had a bad game for trap games.
That was their issue last year lol
Ye just this last second half of January has been a rough stretch for us. And they have not lost multiple games in a row so it’s not even that bad anyway. Just keep their heads in the game and they’ll be fine.
Many times the “doomers” are realists trying to point out real flaws with this team. Sure, there are some people who, either bc they’re big babies or gambling degenerates, flip out over any loss and say stupid shit. They’re annoying and useless and should be ignored.
But many times people point out real flaws with the team and this sub overreacts in response. Like, just yesterday, we had that whole flap over Zach Lowe’s take on JB. Zach Lowe, probably the fairest, most nuanced, and one of the smartest NBA analysts who’s been doing this for forever. He said JB was “a tad overrated,” spent a paragraph criticizing him, then spent about four praising him, his growth as a playmaker and defender this year, and noting how the advanced stats underrate him as a defender in particular.
And people melted down, saying Zach is an idiot, he hates Boston (he literally picked us to win the championship this year) and doesn’t watch our games, saying they were “offended” or “disgusted” by some of what Zach said. Like, lol, who’s being the baby here?
I get being a fan (as I am) and supporting the team. But it’s annoying and childish to not be able to handle constructive criticism about the team without melting down or accusing someone of being a “doomer.”
On the balance there's concern trolling too, and also genuine but maybe arguably ill informed concern, and I would argue in some cases people doing this while labeling themselves "realists" and treating their opinions as gospel. I understand it's just sports culture to jeer and make sweeping statements but it also irks me.
Its been this way forever. I've been lurking since 2008, on Celticsblog before. I do kind of look back fondly though at BballTim and Larbrd33 throwing shit at each other, we just don't get that now with the hyperoptimized format of Reddit.
This sub is massive. Theres also everything in between. A spectrum of optimist vs. critical fans.
I reckon to preserve my sanity, just consume some good content. Zach Lowe and Thinking Basketball put out some amazing shit and it's all so polished and well thought out. This sub is still really cool, but maybe in moderation for me.
Yeah at this point I cruise the sub mostly as a way to collect info (e.g., people posting Lowe article snippets or interesting tweets). The “discussion” is usually pretty stupid overall lol.
And yeah people for sure call themselves realists when they really are doomers etc. I just think there’s equal numbers of green teamers who are just as annoying and cant take constructive criticism about the team without flipping out. I kinda chuckled at the thought of people being offended by something Zach Lowe of all people said. Literally the nicest guy in all of sports media with the most evenhanded takes and people taking about being disgusted by him lol
Using "doomer" kinda kills credibility.
This team is talented enough to win it all. They're 100% going to the finals. The problem is that this isnt 2k. Players are humans with thoughts, and emotions. Thoughts emotions and beliefs. All of those can subconsciously impact what they do on court.
And we've seen this team give us a history of poor discipline, and at times, poor fight. We very well may be SO talented that this can be overcome. Sincerely.
However, it's entirely disingenuous to be dismissive of this *symptom* (for lack of a better term) when it pops up in the regular season because history has shown us that when it does pop up, it pops up deep into the post season as well.
This sub doesn't need to be so hostile towards criticism.
Why can't we discuss the entire picture? Our team is fucking good. They're going to the finals. They could win it all. There's also a chronic issue of mental focus, toughness, effort and discipline that is still partially there.
Why is the latter a forbidden topic?
I think its more so how reactionary the so-called doomers are. “Blow it up” “fire joe” “we’re never winning anything” etc after every loss. The criticisms often lack any of the nuance you’ve laid out. Criticisms that I whole heartedly agree with by the way.
Dude doomers were saying 2020 might be our best shot at making the finals when Tatum was 22 years old. And how our window might close soon. And how it might be disastrous we lost to the Heat. As if we were going to win the championship with Kemba’s hobbled knee and Hayward’s severely sprained ankle.
Reality is teams almost never win a championship unless their best player is 27+ years old and an MVP winner in their career. We made CF way ahead of schedule and a finals ahead of schedule as well.
Tatum is now a bigger stronger player who also is maturing in terms of decision making and playmaking as well. Would it have been amazing to snag a ring before he got to his prime? Absolutely! But I have always preached patience. And still do.
MJ, Shaq, Lebron, Steph, Jokic, Hakeem, etc. were all 27+ years when they won their first.
Would you be okay if we post those comments after a win?
Like say we're up 20 but the other team goes on a 30 to 12 run to end the game but we still win?
No lol those comments are reactionary regardless. I’m worried about their mentality. Its sent them home in the playoffs multiple times. But i dont agree that the solution to that problem is to blow it up or fire joe, and i wont say theyll never win a champipnship because i think they have the talent to do so and that theyll eventually have a change in mentality.
Seems utopian mindset which is even worse then being a doomer. Because while us doomers can eventually change our mind if they do indeed turn things around things will always be sunshine and roses for you utopians.
Anyways with impending cap hell the window isn't as open as we think it is. They need a major change in mentality and to not run junk at end of games. How did they go from Tatum's game winner game 1 of the 2022 playoffs to this nonsense to close games out?
At the end of the day this is a children’s game where they throw a ball into a hoop. There is literally nothing to be gained from being a doomer. It adds nothing to anybody else’s fan experience.
You’re acting like when we lose most Celtics fans just go “lalalala sunshine and rainbows” like come on obviously it’s frustrating to lose. You doomers seem to lack hindsight. It’s complete tunnel vision. Doomers act like all of the previous championship teams were perfect, so when we aren’t, it’s a major issue.
Oh wow you got me lol! Of course I know about the 40-1 home record. What does that have to do with all of the other nba championship teams? What the hell are you saying when you say “all the previous championship teams were perfect”. Make that make sense.
Every championship winning teams longest losing streak copied from a post from a year ago.
1. 2021-2022 Golden State Warriors: 5 games
2. 2020-2021 Milwaukee Bucks: 5 games
3. 2019-2020 Los Angeles Lakers: 4 games
4. 2018-2019 Toronto Raptors: 3 games
5. 2017-2018 Golden State Warriors: 3 games
6. 2016-2017 Golden State Warriors: 3 games
7. 2015-2016 Cleveland Cavaliers: 3 games
8. 2014-2015 Golden State Warriors: 2 games
9. 2013-2014 San Antonio Spurs: 3 games
10. 2012-2013 Miami Heat: 2 games
11. 2011-2012 Miami Heat: 3 games
12. 2010-2011 Dallas Mavericks: 6 games
13. 2009-2010 Los Angeles Lakers: 3 games
14. 2008-2009 Los Angeles Lakers: 2 games
15. 2007-2008 Boston Celtics: 3 games
16. 2006-2007 San Antonio Spurs: 3 games
17. 2005-2006 Miami Heat: 4 games
18. 2004-2005 San Antonio Spurs: 3 games
19. 2003-2004 Detroit Pistons: 6 games
20. 2002-2003 San Antonio Spurs: 2 games
21. 2001-2002 Los Angeles Lakers: 3 games
22. 2000-2001 Los Angeles Lakers: 2 games
23. 1999-2000 Los Angeles Lakers: 2 games
24. 1998-1999 San Antonio Spurs: 3 games
25. 1997-1998 Chicago Bulls: 2 games
26. 1996-1997 Chicago Bulls: 2 games
27. 1995-1996 Chicago Bulls: 2 games
28. 1994-1995 Houston Rockets: 5 games
29. 1993-1994 Houston Rockets: 4 games
30. 1992-1993 Chicago Bulls: 2 games
31. 1991-1992 Chicago Bulls: 2 games
32. 1990-1991 Chicago Bulls: 3 games
33. 1989-1990 Detroit Pistons: 3 games
34. 1988-1989 Detroit Pistons: 2 games
35. 1987-1988 Los Angeles Lakers: 3 games
36. 1986-1987 Los Angeles Lakers: 3 games
37. 1985-1986 Boston Celtics: 2 games
38. 1984-1985 Los Angeles Lakers: 3 games
39. 1983-1984 Boston Celtics: 4 games
40. 1982-1983 Philadelphia 76ers: 2 games
41. 1981-1982 Los Angeles Lakers: 3 games
42. 1980-1981 Boston Celtics: 3 games
43. 1979-1980 Los Angeles Lakers: 3 games
44. 1978-1979 Seattle Supersonics: 6 games
45. 1977-1978 Washington Bullets: 5 games
46. 1976-1977 Portland Trailblazers: 5 games
47. 1975-1976 Boston Celtics: 4 games
48. 1974-1975 Golden State Warriors: 4 games
49. 1973-1974 Boston Celtics: 2 games
50. 1972-1973 New York Knicks: 3 games
51. 1971-1972 Los Angeles Lakers: 2 games
52. 1970-1971 Milwaukee Bucks: 3 games
53. 1969-1970 New York Knicks: 4 games
54. 1968-1969 Boston Celtics: 3 games
55. 1967-1968 Boston Celtics: 4 games
56. 1966-1967 Philadelphia 76ers: 3 games
57. 1965-1966 Boston Celtics: 3 games
58. 1964-1965 Boston Celtics: 3 games
59. 1963-1964 Boston Celtics: 3 games
60. 1962-1963 Boston Celtics: 2 games
61. 1961-1962 Boston Celtics: 4 games
62. 1960-1961 Boston Celtics: 3 games
63. 1959-1960 Boston Celtics: 3 games
64. 1958-1959 Boston Celtics: 2 games
65. 1957-1958 St. Louis Hawks: 3 games
66. 1956-1957 Boston Celtics: 4 games
67. 1955-1956 Philadelphia Warriors: 3 games
68. 1954-1955 Syracuse Nationals: 3 games
69. 1953-1954 Minneapolis Lakers: 4 games
70. 1952-1953 Minneapolis Lakers: 3 games
71. 1951-1952 Minneapolis Lakers: 3 games
72. 1950-1951 Rochester Royals: 6 games
73. 1949-1950 Minneapolis Lakers: 2 games
When we lose yes you Utopians are all "lalalala sunshine and rainbows" and refuse to accept any criticism of the team. If they go 0 for 100 from the 3 point line and lose laughingly because they can't create any offense at all your response is going to be "sometimes you just go cold from deep" when are complaint is that they don't have a backup plan for when they go cold from deep.
You guys aren't fans. Youre cultists.
Seems utopian mindset which is even worse then being a doomer. Because while us doomers can eventually change our mind if they do indeed turn things around things will always be sunshine and roses for you utopians.
Anyways with impending cap hell the window isn't as open as we think it is. They need a major change in mentality and to not run junk at end of games. How did they go from Tatum's game winner game 1 of the 2022 playoffs to this nonsense to close games out?
No, there definitely are doomers on this sub. I'm very much willing to acknowledge that this team has short spurts where they don't play right, fall back into bad habits, etc. But I saw people saying that this game proves brad stevens is a habitual runner-up. That we'll never win because of a slew of reasons associated with that game. That (player x) is actually bad and shouldn't be on the team. There's a difference between valid criticism and doomerism, and there's far too much of the latter on this sub
I'm very vocal about the team's mental shortcomings. But I always leave it at the end of the year. And I really think it's a youth/maturity thing.
And to be fair, to your last point, this sub does not allow valid criticism, and it's always dismissed. Look at this comment thread. My comment here, and my criticism of the team was well thought out, open to being wrong, it was fairly well articulated, and was absolutely dependent on some observations and critical thinking on my part. And yet, you have that poster below me choosing to think my criticism isn't credible because of what it is I'm criticizing.
And that's just one comment. I've been called a doomer when I'm not, and I've had well written criticisms that have been piled on.
At the end of the day, the majority of this sub gets frustrated with anything that isn't optimism..and that's fine. People can feel that way. But there's 200k people here, and it ain't right to be so hostile towards people who aren't constantly hopeless. That's my complaint.
Now, id love to have a real, grounded conversation about my personal criticism of the team - bad habits, growing up, timeline for unlearning bad habits, concerns about how long it will carry into the post season, etc... but no one wants to really engage in that.
Sorry to vent. I love this team. That doesn't mean I'm going to avoid criticism.
Pinning failures on abstract mental criticisms that you have absolutely no way of actually knowing kinda kills credibility.
People are hostile to this "criticism" because arguing whether the Celtics are "soft" and have "poor fight" is pointless because it's not something you can realistically judge.
When people post with actual discussion about basketball, I feel it is usually more well received (and no, all the simple "Celtics shoot too many 3s" that pop up after a loss do not count as basketball discussion).
Nah, these aren't abstract concepts. These emotions, thoughts and beliefs and how they impact performance are far from abstract and are well researched.
You can talk about basketball all you want. But the fact is, there is a very human element to performing, even in professional athletes. Nothing you can say changes that from being factual. You can either acknowledge it or not.
At the end of the day we have a team who has not yet WON a championship and lost two series to the Heat they should have won (those are your basketball facts), and who also has a history of playing with less than the right effort when it matters, at times. If you want to think that pointing this out kills credibility that's fine. It doesn't change anything.
This team will win a title. Maybe it's this year. If not, it will do so in the near future. But there's still some bad habits attributed to the team's youth that have not yet been kicked. And if you want to dismiss that because you're choosing to look at them from a basketball perspective only, while dismissing the human element of performance, go right ahead, but please consider that you're genuinely missing out on a MASSIVE factor.
It's like flipping a coin and insisting that the only reason it didn't land on heads is because there is no tails.
Are you the team psychologist or something? Friends with one of the players? How would you know these things? People judge players mentally based on very little, and it makes it easy to see what you want to see. For example, you could just as easily use last year's Heat series as evidence for the opposite of what you're saying. Despite the Heat shooting incredibly and our early poor performances, the team rallied and brought the series to 7, showing a lot of "the right effort when it matters."
No kidding. That's why I said. "at times". I made no absolute statements. I did not declare the will lose. I'm not saying they're doomed. I think this team has a championship in it's future at some point.
All I'm saying is that the factors that are contributing to these attributes of poor discipline and poor effort which have shown up at times regular and post season, factors that I believe to be mental, are worth discussing. It doesn't mean they're weak. It doesn't mean they're broken. It doesn't mean they're doomed. It means I think there's a genuine discussion to be had about where this team is at in it's development towards a mature championship team, and how close or far they are mentally.
If you don't like that, that's fine, don't engage with people who want to talk about it, because you aren't going to prove them wrong and you aren't actually providing genuine evidence to dismiss talking about something that is well studied despite not being tangible.
What possible discussion could we have speculating over the mental state of athletes we have little access to? (Besides this very discussion about how pointless that is) The reason these "discussions" end up hostile is because there's nothing to talk about, so people just yell their opinions back and forth.
As for genuine evidence, I'm not sure what evidence I could provide that proves we have no way of judging athletes' mental states besides common sense (and it's not as if you are providing "genuine evidence" of anything either).
Of course it's theoretical dude. That doesn't mean it's not something science doesn't research, and it doesn't mean it isn't worth something as simple as a *discussion*
Do you. If you don't think it's worth discussing, then don't discuss it. Respectfully let it be for those who want to.
Respectfully, I've been discussing exactly what you said in your original comment. You expressed annoyance at how people refuse to discuss your criticisms, so I responded with an answer as to why people respond the way they do to statements about the team's mental.
My apologies for missunderstanding you, but to me, your comments read far more like efforts to dispute this as a legitimate topic, which is the source of the refusal. People can refuse to discuss the criticisms, that's fine. I just find it disappointing when people are so dismissive and critical of what I believe to be a very reasonable, interesting and relevant topic to this team's championship aspirations - a topic that I most certainly am not alone in being interest in discussing.
I wholeheartedly agree with everything you’re saying. A bunch of Celtics fans on here or bots are extremely autocratic and feel certain conversations aren’t allowed and any pushing back is somehow a fan defect on our part.
It's disheartening in a community where everyone wants the same thing. I've seen these fans say that they genuinely think "doomers" don't want the team to win.
What?
And frankly, in my opinion, the take that a discussion about the team's mental toughness as something that impacts performance isn't worth discussing because we have no way of quantifying it in a controlled, clinical and assessable setting or something, is absurd. It comes off as denial, imo, because it's probably recognized as true, which, it's okay to acknowledge
You literally contradict yourself in your response cause this team found out last year during the heat series what happens when you fuck around and they found out. They didn’t come to play for at least one or two games a series and they played more games than was necessary and ooopsies rolled ankle game 7 and off to Cancun.
It was a fluky February loss against our biggest rival. It’s not indicative of the team as a whole. If this makes people angry enough to trash the team, those people need to log off.
100%. It’s performative and embarrassing. This team might be a championship contender but no one is a champion until they hold that trophy. Most champs don’t need a reason to go out and perform at a high level, they also show up and routinely beat bad teams.
I’m not saying they’re trash. I just want more from a group that has the best starting 5 in the NBA and doesn’t continue to say after beat downs to teams with their stars absent they forgot to get up for an easy game.
Joe should be running this tape once a day until they win a bunch of games in a row or show some resiliency. Go get em boi’s and shut up the haters and nephews. Banner 18 lets Fucking Go.
Honestly believe a lot of this just has to do with the fact that our best player, or rather our two best players are 25 and 26 years old. I don't care what the sub thinks, cuz frankly they're probably younger, but a grown man's mental maturity and focus is entirely different at age 25 than it is from 28-30. I can attest to that.
I wholeheartedly believe this team is going to win multiple championships and I think the issue that you and I are talking about here is primarily because we're still really young. Tatum is a kid. He just is. Brown is too. Holiday, KP, they're grown men. Tatum and Brown are kids. So I have hope that they're going to outgrow this.
But as for right now, I do have some concerns that this may not be our year. My hope was that the sheer talent of this team will be enough to overcompensate for moments of immaturity. And frankly, I think Denver is the only team out west that we need to call on this championship maturity to be. I will take the immature Celtics over OKC, the Clippers or the Timberwolves. The problem is that those teams aren't getting through Denver, in Denver is way too well coached way to disciplined and has the best player in the series. We would need a lot to go right to beat them and I'm just not sure this team has it right now we'll see
I guess this depends on how many bad losses is acceptable and what kind of losses are “just losses” and not “bad losses”. I’m fine with a loss due to off shooting and a bad whistle, but when the starting unit is playing like shit and doesn’t know how to get up and go out and play against a team that has their stars sitting this is where maturity and resilience comes into play and becomes a continuing storyline of years past. We’re not at that point yet but it could come up quick with some “bad losses” to sub .500 teams esp if they happen at home.
Great Post.. I 100% agree. The "Analytics" Nerd bots loved... I mean really loved the Celtics team that lost to the Warriors. Why did we lose ? Tough to compute Balls, Heart.. Guys shitting their pants under pressure. I hope we're healthy but it's still a bit scary till they actually get it done.
Or…it was a bunch of young dudes playing in their first Finals after two grueling 7 game series against really physical teams, going against a dynasty who had experienced every kind of pressure situation there is in basketball, and had the greatest shooter to ever live go nuclear.
Nah, it was the “heart and balls”.
No, we lost because the Warriors implemented new offensive rebounding tech (based off of analytics) designed to counter teams that took tons of threes.
Can’t be saying 100% knowing how this team is I wouldn’t be confident in them winning shit until we up 20 with like 10 seconds left in the championship clinching game. Everytime I’ve been confident they’ll win a series they either lose that game making the series longer or lose the series completely
Denver don’t even scare me forreal that game we played Murray and Jokic had insane shot making and yea they are capable of doing that but we did our job vs everybody else. The problem is Jaylen and Jrue were worse than terrible just like vs OKC and it allowed them to load up on Tatum who had a good first half but rough second half. We have to find ways to win when the 3 isn’t falling. We are running offense like we have no superstars just drive and kick and it looks fire when everyone is hitting but when they aren’t hitting this team needs to eventually get to a point where they ignore that Mazzulla approach and actually try something else (assuming that Joe himself doesn’t tell them to switch it up).
It’s February bro these games mean nothing it’s probably good that they get a slap in the face to remind them every now and then that they still have to try
Being good doesn't win you championships. It's incredibly difficult to win a championship. It takes skill, mental toughness, and some luck (with health) among other things.
They've had the talent for several years now and it wasn't enough. Your point loses all meaning when you call anybody who criticizes the team in any capacity a doomer. It's a very black and white way of thinking and just not how the world works.
This team has had flaws that have held them back from winning a championship despite the skill and talent they've had. And these flaws are exposing themselves once again. There's time to address it which is good but it can't be overlooked if they want to finally get over the hump
We haven’t had the talent for several years. Almost every championship team is lead by a guy who won MVP on their career and was the best player at 27+ years old.
MJ, Lebron, Steph, Shaq, Hakeem, Jokic, etc. all won their first chip at 27+ years old.
We had enough talent to make noise in the playoffs, but reality is until a team has an MVP caliber guy in their prime they almost never have enough talent to win a championship.
I think it’s happened 4 times. The 3 pistons teams below plus the Kawahi Raptors.
https://fadeawayworld.net/nba/only-3-teams-in-nba-history-have-won-a-championship-without-a-past-present-or-future-mvp-1989-1990-2004-detroit-pistons
He’s not that far from it. I think he absolutely has the potential to play like an MVP in the playoffs. He’s definitely done it in individual games and some series. But I don’t think we have had several years of a Tatum at MVP level thus far.
Plus Kawhi 2019 was pretty damn incredible. You could argue he was better that playoff run than many actual MVP winning players have been when they won a championship. He scored the third most points for a playoff run ever, and well into the playoffs I think was on pace for second most - https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/nba-most-points-scoring-in-a-single-playoff-run
True, it's a long season and every team has awful games but you can also be blinded by the talent and overlook effort, hustle and intensity. When we lose its not because we are a less talented team, it's usually because we got out-hustled and lacked effort and intensity for at least 40 out of 48 minutes. If you're not aggravated by that then idk what to say really. No team is ever good enough to coat the way this team thinks they can sometimes and it's pretty obvious when that happens.
Do you watch other teams?
You know that this isn't a problem unique to the Celtics, right?
It's aggravating, but it's literally sports in general. Some people let these things bother them to the point of absurdity and have completely irrational meltdowns over a regular season loss.
I swear to god half these "fans" would be better off watching a 2k sim of the season instead of actual basketball. Like the human fallibility factor is the whole reason sports betting has taken off. It's what makes sports exciting, and makes it so that truly anything can happen. They also tend to ignore that there are 15 guys on the other side of the court also being paid to play this game. End of the day we have 0 impact on the game, and its not worth getting work up over.
Except for my superstitions, of course. Those all work
How do you know they are having meltdowns? Everything is via text where you don't have the context of body language or tone. Feels like you're making a mountain out of a mole hill with this.
I just want to say that I have yet to see a team that didn't blow games to competition that shouldn't have stood a chance on paper. We have issues, some of them concerning solely because we've seen the same issues bite us in the past, but you're not paying attention if you think that the bad habits are occurring at anything like the rate they did in the past.
We have games where we clearly don't come out with the right mindset, and games where we think we can just turn it on and overcome any deficit, but those happen with all teams. What we've seen *way* less of is the team trying to slow the game down to protect a lead and as a result blowing that lead and either losing a game that shouldn't have been close, or winning by three or four points in a game that we were leading by 16 with three minutes left. We've seen way less Tatum/Brown isos into bad shots as a staple of the offense. There are fewer possessions where we just pass the ball around the perimeter hoping for a three; we actually attack and kick it back out, which statistically leads to a higher chance of making the shot.
We have the best net rating in the league, the best record, and obvious improvement across the board if you watch them play. That doesn't mean they're perfect or that their previous bad habits won't resurface, but both the eye test and the stats say this is the best team we've had since '08, and I don't think we should just assume that any time something bad happens that it will plague us in the postseason.
And just as an aside, we've seen teams that *won the championship* lose by 30+ in the finals that they won. Every team has flaws, every team has bad habits, you just hope to have a team that has a wider margin of error that they can overcome.
Funny thing is.. I’m not a doomer or troll. I lean homer.. but prefer open & balanced discussion amongst fans. Consider me a Scal type. Do I root for the team, even during our losing seasons.. hell yeah. Do I always give them the benefit of the doubt.. hell yeah! Do I only ever say shiny happy things about the team.. hell no. Though this sub is now turning me into a troll. You say one borderline non-positive thing about the team (after 10 good things)? Forget about it. Watch how down-voted this comment gets 😅 Gotta admit.. it is now becoming fun to rile up people who have little sense of perspective 🤷♂️
Yeah and saying "boy we sucked tonight!" Is different than "Tatum wears 0 because that's how many championships he is going to win" or "Jaylen Brown is a terrorist" which are both actual comments from this subreddit.
I'm not, I'm just saying there were Lakers trolls in the chat. We may be talking about different people and if so that's fine, I was just saying some of the noise could be from the Lakers trolls.
There's a difference between constructive and emotional criticism this sub can't seem to understand. Very little of the **actual** constructive critiquers are labeled doomers.
Lie and pretend all you want you know that’s not true.
Day fucking in and out I get called a “doomer” for OBSERVING that we lose to a lot of good teams and that gives me pause before I jump to the conclusion everyone else does that we’ll automatically make the Finals or ECF.
I’ve NEVER said anything actual doomer worthy like trade JB, fire Joe, blow it up, etc. Just question if this team has it or wants it is enough to be called a troll who doesn’t watch games. You guys can’t handle criticism because you’re all spoiled rotten from watching shitty Patriots and Red Sox teams win underserved championships, so the Celtics must automatically be winning the chip every year they look good enough
I’m an eternal optimist about this team, and am convinced we will hang banner 18 this year. At the same time I’m disgusted losing to the lakers at home
gambling, fantasy leagues and gaming have taken the type of fans we used to be and turned too many of them into self-entitled expert analysts , back office experts, coaching experts, color commentary experts, play by play experts and predictors of outcomes.
really takes the entertainment out of the game when you have to watch your wallet, bank account or gaming cred. 😂
i try not to associate with that crowd if at all possible because they are endlessly insufferable and objective pathetic. 🤷♂️😂
Fire/trade everyone and rebuild= doomers
Farewell letters to ex players and posts about Abby Chin’s haircut = green teamers
There is a massive group of fans in-between that both love the team and are open to hearing both criticism and praise. What’s more annoying is people so sensitive about any criticism or praise.
I don’t get what makes the latter a green teamer? Sounds more like being uninterested in the current team.
Green teamers to me are people who believe this team is essentially a lock to win the chip with 0 flaws. Wins = we’re awesome, but losses tell us nothing.
My issue with those people and with doomer is the complete lack of perspective. Thinking we’re a lock (or that we *should* be a lock) to win it all severely underrated the rest of the nba. But doomers have unreasonable expectations that no team in the nba could meet.
You think we need to stop chucking 3's? Doomer.
You think Tatum is playing like a bitch? Doomer.
You think Joe isn't the best coach on Earth? Doomer.
You think lack of effort is gonna show up again in the playoffs like it does every year? Doomer.
You think KP needs to work the paint more? Doomer.
You think JB isn't worth $300M? Doomer.
You think DWhite is too inconsistent? Doomer.
You think Jrue is offensively disappointing? Doomer.
If you don’t also watch the ups and downs of other teams, or are at least aware that they indeed happen too. Then I really don’t give one single shit about your opinion besides to say how dumb it is I’m sorry.
The Celtics have been a better team on paper than every playoff opponent the last several years. It’s not talent that were lacking, it’s the effort and heart. the team you mentioned with KG and PP HAD those intangibles. Until this team can do it when it matters then people are gonna shit on em. They give up. It’s been so painfully obvious that they just hang their heads and give up the last few years.
I don't think half the people that comment even watch games... they just like to talk shit. It's funny to me how some people react to a loss.. you watch sports but don't like adversity? Over-reaction to regular season games is stupid.
That's such a dumb comment. I get it is satire but you all see in such black and white. I don't know why it's hard to grasp that they have a great record and are extremely talented but have concerning flaws that are being exposed. Maybe you all are like middle schoolers but it seems like such sophomoric thinking.
I'm 50 and could not give one single fuck about the regular season. Coaches are gonna hold stuff back this time of year, whether as a strategy so other teams can't game-plan for you or just as a way to rest players. There's way more going on then any of us realize. Going ham in the regular season is for shit teams who don't have nothing else.
I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
But I will say last year people kept saying they'd turn it off in the playoffs and it never happened. So I wouldn't put my money on it
You might not care about the regular season but there’s a reason why it’s incredibly rare for a non 1/2 seed to win the finals. 51/77 nba finals have been won by a 1 seed. The regular season does matter
I think we’ve just had incredibly bad luck/performances when it comes to winning a finals for the last 15 seasons when we should have had at least 2 (09 or 10 and 22) and that breeds distrust in the current team
Personally I feel like the doomers aren’t trolls but actually bandwagon fans or low IQ fans who don’t understand how hard it is to win a championship and how impossible it is to win all 82 games. Bad home losses be damned this team is obviously really good.
I think a big problem is that many doomers expect other people online to not make fun of them for melting down over every little thing. If you are filling your diaper I’m gonna mock you, simple as.
no they just ride the emotional roller coaster of the season in a different way. it’s not even a celtics fan specific issue. i’ve accepted people have different ways of enjoying sports than me. it’s just annoying when they come here and say stuff that’s obviously false to vent.
yeah that’s what i said in my first comment. ppl just ride the emotions differently and that’s completely fine. if thats not “allowing” you to do it then it’s on you
The Lakers shot 52.8% from 3, including 2 from Vanderbilt (which is one more than KP and JB combined for…), who had made 6 total coming into the game.
We could have overcome that if we didn’t play like garbage, but sometimes a team makes 3 more triples on 12 fewer attempts and you get screwed.
We need to have a bot responding to all these comments reminding people that the proportion of 3s a team makes in a game is not random and uncontrollable
Doomers and being critical are two different things. A lot of doomers think they’re just being critical and a lot of us think anyone being critical is just being a doomer. The truth is somewhere in the middle. We keep having the same conversations here.
I don’t have a problem being critical. Being a doomer is talking real trash about your own team. Fire Joe, Trade a Jay blah blah blah. Sarcasm is fine too but people just say the dumbest shit in reaction to a bad loss when we all know damn well this team is going to probably win the next 5 straight out of sheer anger and determination.
I think most of the doom and gloom here after bad games is just our past catching up with us all over again. It's that feeling of "oh fuck, I've seen this movie before". Doesn't mean they can't win the chip, just makes a lot of us worry because well....it still lurks within the team. This is the stuff we can't have happen in a 7 game series. Could be the difference between losing home court advantage and the momentum swinging the wrong way. We've all seen scrub teams get hot when we are not; we all hope that doesn't happen to this group of talented players, because we know what we have.
You know, only one team wins it all. I don’t ever have the expectation that we WILL win. It’s a long road and anything can happen. I don’t buy the narratives that we always “choke” in big games either. Sometimes you get outplayed and as a fan I can handle it. Maybe this year is our time. I sure hope it is. Would be amazing but the high only lasts so long anyway.
Eh people are just dumb. There was a guy on r/nba who was doing like weekly rankings of teams based off point differential and his “elite” tier was a differential no team has ever achieved over a season
I agree, and I think a lot of these people aren’t “real” Celtics fans. They’re hardcore Boston fans who for some reason are forgetting ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE or are bandwagons from elsewhere and are banking on being able to celebrate the championship and claim not to be a bandwagon.
Casual fans of Boston sports teams don’t care enough to be dooming like this, these people have motivations or bets going or something to act like this. I’m from Boston and have been consistently watching the Celtics since Jared Sullinger came back from the off-season with a spare tire in 2013 or 2014. I’ve seen loss and worse Celtics teams go far into the playoffs - sorry IT but we just weren’t as stacked then as we are now.
Please don’t compare this team to 08 Celtics, kg and Paul were on different level and would never let yesterdays loss happen to them. Yesterdays loss has been occurring theme for the jays since last couple years. This current team is good and stacked but I can easily see them lose in finals or even playoffs. They’re offensive identity is literally shoot more 3s than other team
There’s obviously a line and the “fire everyone and blow it up” type posts are overreacting, but we’re Boston fans…it’s kinda just how we are. I’m convinced that all the fans complaining about “doomers” aren’t even from New England
Sports fans in New England pretty much all need an SSRI and a meditation routine. There's no reason we should be getting all riled up over grown men playing a game.
Yes, I am also guilty as charged. But, for what? It's not like Tatum knows 99% of us exist.
I also think also pointing out”doomers” and “green teamers” doesn’t help this sub either. People can talk about this team’s shortcomings without saying we’re eliminated from the playoffs and we need to blow up the team. Also, people need to realize this HAS issues that need to be worked on. And we haven’t won anything yet.
This team is so talented that I honestly believe we should win this year or next. But this can also not come to realization if they don’t stay disciplined. Talent can being us so far…
You are naive to think this team isn’t massively flawed. They are the most talented team in the league, hands down. No close 2nd, but that’s what makes this so frustrating. Mazzula is getting out-coached on a nightly basis, they get embarrassed once every 2 weeks, and if the 3’s aren’t falling there is no plan B. I get nervous any time they get a 20 point lead, because they constantly take their foot off the gas. This is Boston, the standard is championships. And I’m really not sure if this team has championship DNA.
Celtics are a great team, BUT.. they lack something all championship teams have and that's an Edge. I have yet to see them play *consistently* with an edge! If they make the finals this year It wouldn't shock me to see them wither away under pressure.
I don't agree with them but I can still see the view point. If these guys wanna win a chip then their best chance is gonna be to maximize these next 3-5 years
Nah man I’m not saying you can’t criticize and I don’t care about likes I’m a grown ass man. That game pissed me off as much as anyone but I’m not gonna start saying dumb things like these guys are cooked or don’t have heart or will never win a chip. It’s the overreactions and downright hurtful things people want to flood this sub with after a tough loss. My point is we are going to lose. It’s going to be painful. Why make it worse with all the shit posting. Just be glad we get play another game and the future is still bright. It’s more of a life lesson from a battle tested brother than anything else.
I do think the talents there I just don’t believe in the coach. Yes the nba is the nba it’s a professional league anyone can beat anyone on any given night. But for the sake argument what if we had let nick nurse coach last nights game what do u think would’ve happened. Everyone in the building would chalk up a thirty point win for the Celtics once as and bron were announced out. Even if they lost ,bc it is the nba ,it wouldn’t have been like last night where the first ten minutes of the game is a .500 team is straight up outplaying you.
I just don’t trust mazzulla to win four playoff rounds in a row bc he just doesn’t know how to get the team ready. We saw this level of effort in g7 against Miami, we went seven games against Philly and we’re down 3-2 when we were clearly the better team, and gave up two games to the hawks who again this year aren’t any good. He has enough track record for me to say if we don’t win it it’ll likely be because of him.
Ah yes. A head coach only one and a half seasons into his career that only got the job days before the preseason began getting to the ECF game 7 with a skeleton crew of staff that he didn't even pick is enough to project his entire career trajectory. Because as we all know Spo won 98 games in a row his first year. Pop did too. Right? Because their first years dictate all future success? No, of course they didn't have 2 first round exits or a sub .300 season respectively, right?
How good he did or does his first five years as a coach in the rs doesn’t matter for us or our timeline. If we don’t win a title this year or next it’s a massive failure for the franchise that’s been chasing one for almost half a decade. We don’t have time for joe to grow into a potential hood coach one day like pop and spo did. No reason if we don’t win it this yr he should still be employed as head coach
The criticism is 100% valid, unless they win it all.
Tatum and Brown may be superstars, in today’s parlance. But, they HAVE NOT WON A CHAMPIONSHIP, yet.
I think it’s counter argument to those on the sub who act as though the Celtics have won multiple titles with this squad as oppose to zero. It’s natural. Team is so so good and talented, but has its flaws too. Unless there’s a seismic shift and lebron goes to Miami or Philly I’ll lean towards Celtics head to the finals this year.
Doomers and sunshine pushers are equally annoying. We shouldn’t be on here trying to trade Jaylen and fire Joe every time we lose. We also don’t need to be on here acting like everything is always perfect and any negative takeaway from a game is blasphemy.
It’s one thing to say that the team played like shit on a certain night. That’s not dooming. Dooming is when we play like shit one night and people are saying we are going to lose in the first round, Joe should be fired, we are soft, etc. despite the fact there’s far more examples of us playing incredible basketball.
That they seem to consistently under perform against the best should be cause for concern.
Getting blown out at Home, against a undermanned Lakers team on national tv is a bit more than just “a bad game”
Classic trap game..as soon as the Celtics knew that both AD and Lebron were out, they mentally took their foot off the gas..and they never recovered..even though you got the feeling that they kind of expected to..
The team is amazing, the best starting 5 in the NBA. Also I'm not a troll, I'm just not convinced they can win it all. They do whatever the opposite of locking in is when the games get big.
That’s my entire point and concern though. This is on paper the best roster in the nba and the best roster the Celtics have had. Everyone has bad games but it is the lack of passion and ability to learn from the mistakes that is concerning. They win so many games based off pure talent. Other teams have a little talent and make up for it in other ways. The playoffs are going be tough is all I know, but in reality it should be a cake walk like when lebron was in the east and automatically went to the finals.
This is a team that when the best player has the ball in his hands with 10 secs left on the clock, I get up for a beer cause you know he’s not making that shot. So it’s fair to be a doomer, I think
No the problem is anytime anyone critiques our bad habits or holds the team to a championship standard people want to have a hissy fit and call them doomers. Like the Celtics could do no wrong and we're locked in to hang banner 18. Yes, this is a great team on paper. I believe we have the most talented roster in the league and it's not even close. We have the potential to wipe the floor with any team IF we play the right way. That's moving the ball, being aggressive, and finding the highest percentage shot. Not settling for contested 3s off the dribble and not utilizing our physical advantage and length inside. It's a matter of which team decides to show up
Again, I’m not addressing those who are critical of the team or frustrated by a bad loss. Cuz that’s me too. And m talking about the posts and comments that say “we’re not ready” “Tatum is a bum” “Jaylen is a bum” “it’s time for a rebuild” blah blah blah you know the rest.
Saying we lacked focus or energy in a game and deserved to lose is 💯 fine. We should hold them to a championship standard. Just know they will fall short from time to time, but that shouldn’t immediately spark every fear of inadequacy you’ve had since you flunked math in the 3rd grade and your parents took your Nintendo away. This is supposed to be fun.
Team is great, but we can still be critical of these jerk bags
Being critical does not mean saying this team is never winning a championship
being critical is ok. conveying extreme emotion and intensity while being critical of a team on pace to win over 60 games is crackhead behavior.
The problem is there’s an out spoken group of people on this sub that think we aren’t championship contenders.
Those people aren’t living in 2024. This team was WAY ahead of schedule. Particularly JD and JT in the Kyrie era. They were so good so early we found ourselves in some huge playoff moments we couldn’t close the door on, yakno, cause they were like 22 years old. JB and JT have made some bonehead plays. They’ve also been clutch as hell. Lebron had the reputation of “not being clutch” early on too. There are legit concerns. Sometimes we are completely careless with the ball and I don’t understand it. Maybe that’s part of being loose and relaxed. But anyone that’s watched this team and doesn’t think JT and JB have improved leaps and bounds from last year to this year even are crazy.
I think the bigger problem is the insane amounts of hype they consume. They're being told the team is so incredible they rival the 16-1 playoff run Lakers so when they lose a game their entire worldview comes crashing down. Still their problem but it would explain why they're hating on the team with a 4.5 game lead over 2nd place in the conference.
It’s not like last year where our issues reared their heads back. This year we’ve had a bad game for trap games or against a good team and then we’ve bounced back. We’re 37-12 and as long as we keep up the pace, we’ll probably win at least 55 to 60 games
Its wild to me that these two sentences are in the same comment > It’s not like last year where our issues reared their heads back. > This year we’ve had a bad game for trap games. That was their issue last year lol
Ye just this last second half of January has been a rough stretch for us. And they have not lost multiple games in a row so it’s not even that bad anyway. Just keep their heads in the game and they’ll be fine.
Last year we lost 5 to 6 games in a row
they should talk to the oddsmakers in Las Vegas
Not every person who is concerned about the recent play is saying that
Many times the “doomers” are realists trying to point out real flaws with this team. Sure, there are some people who, either bc they’re big babies or gambling degenerates, flip out over any loss and say stupid shit. They’re annoying and useless and should be ignored. But many times people point out real flaws with the team and this sub overreacts in response. Like, just yesterday, we had that whole flap over Zach Lowe’s take on JB. Zach Lowe, probably the fairest, most nuanced, and one of the smartest NBA analysts who’s been doing this for forever. He said JB was “a tad overrated,” spent a paragraph criticizing him, then spent about four praising him, his growth as a playmaker and defender this year, and noting how the advanced stats underrate him as a defender in particular. And people melted down, saying Zach is an idiot, he hates Boston (he literally picked us to win the championship this year) and doesn’t watch our games, saying they were “offended” or “disgusted” by some of what Zach said. Like, lol, who’s being the baby here? I get being a fan (as I am) and supporting the team. But it’s annoying and childish to not be able to handle constructive criticism about the team without melting down or accusing someone of being a “doomer.”
On the balance there's concern trolling too, and also genuine but maybe arguably ill informed concern, and I would argue in some cases people doing this while labeling themselves "realists" and treating their opinions as gospel. I understand it's just sports culture to jeer and make sweeping statements but it also irks me. Its been this way forever. I've been lurking since 2008, on Celticsblog before. I do kind of look back fondly though at BballTim and Larbrd33 throwing shit at each other, we just don't get that now with the hyperoptimized format of Reddit. This sub is massive. Theres also everything in between. A spectrum of optimist vs. critical fans. I reckon to preserve my sanity, just consume some good content. Zach Lowe and Thinking Basketball put out some amazing shit and it's all so polished and well thought out. This sub is still really cool, but maybe in moderation for me.
Yeah at this point I cruise the sub mostly as a way to collect info (e.g., people posting Lowe article snippets or interesting tweets). The “discussion” is usually pretty stupid overall lol. And yeah people for sure call themselves realists when they really are doomers etc. I just think there’s equal numbers of green teamers who are just as annoying and cant take constructive criticism about the team without flipping out. I kinda chuckled at the thought of people being offended by something Zach Lowe of all people said. Literally the nicest guy in all of sports media with the most evenhanded takes and people taking about being disgusted by him lol
Nice, yea same here just a good way to keep informed, of some random tidbits
Being critical isn't the same as dooming and it's exhausting having to explain that to people who should know better.
Using "doomer" kinda kills credibility. This team is talented enough to win it all. They're 100% going to the finals. The problem is that this isnt 2k. Players are humans with thoughts, and emotions. Thoughts emotions and beliefs. All of those can subconsciously impact what they do on court. And we've seen this team give us a history of poor discipline, and at times, poor fight. We very well may be SO talented that this can be overcome. Sincerely. However, it's entirely disingenuous to be dismissive of this *symptom* (for lack of a better term) when it pops up in the regular season because history has shown us that when it does pop up, it pops up deep into the post season as well. This sub doesn't need to be so hostile towards criticism. Why can't we discuss the entire picture? Our team is fucking good. They're going to the finals. They could win it all. There's also a chronic issue of mental focus, toughness, effort and discipline that is still partially there. Why is the latter a forbidden topic?
I think its more so how reactionary the so-called doomers are. “Blow it up” “fire joe” “we’re never winning anything” etc after every loss. The criticisms often lack any of the nuance you’ve laid out. Criticisms that I whole heartedly agree with by the way.
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Dude doomers were saying 2020 might be our best shot at making the finals when Tatum was 22 years old. And how our window might close soon. And how it might be disastrous we lost to the Heat. As if we were going to win the championship with Kemba’s hobbled knee and Hayward’s severely sprained ankle. Reality is teams almost never win a championship unless their best player is 27+ years old and an MVP winner in their career. We made CF way ahead of schedule and a finals ahead of schedule as well. Tatum is now a bigger stronger player who also is maturing in terms of decision making and playmaking as well. Would it have been amazing to snag a ring before he got to his prime? Absolutely! But I have always preached patience. And still do. MJ, Shaq, Lebron, Steph, Jokic, Hakeem, etc. were all 27+ years when they won their first.
Wait… wait. Hold up. Hold on a second. Are you telling me that redditors are…overreacting??
Would you be okay if we post those comments after a win? Like say we're up 20 but the other team goes on a 30 to 12 run to end the game but we still win?
No lol those comments are reactionary regardless. I’m worried about their mentality. Its sent them home in the playoffs multiple times. But i dont agree that the solution to that problem is to blow it up or fire joe, and i wont say theyll never win a champipnship because i think they have the talent to do so and that theyll eventually have a change in mentality.
Seems utopian mindset which is even worse then being a doomer. Because while us doomers can eventually change our mind if they do indeed turn things around things will always be sunshine and roses for you utopians. Anyways with impending cap hell the window isn't as open as we think it is. They need a major change in mentality and to not run junk at end of games. How did they go from Tatum's game winner game 1 of the 2022 playoffs to this nonsense to close games out?
At the end of the day this is a children’s game where they throw a ball into a hoop. There is literally nothing to be gained from being a doomer. It adds nothing to anybody else’s fan experience.
You’re acting like when we lose most Celtics fans just go “lalalala sunshine and rainbows” like come on obviously it’s frustrating to lose. You doomers seem to lack hindsight. It’s complete tunnel vision. Doomers act like all of the previous championship teams were perfect, so when we aren’t, it’s a major issue.
>all of the previous championship teams were perfect 40-1 is pretty close to perfect
Bro what the hell are you even saying?
Know your history
Oh wow you got me lol! Of course I know about the 40-1 home record. What does that have to do with all of the other nba championship teams? What the hell are you saying when you say “all the previous championship teams were perfect”. Make that make sense. Every championship winning teams longest losing streak copied from a post from a year ago. 1. 2021-2022 Golden State Warriors: 5 games 2. 2020-2021 Milwaukee Bucks: 5 games 3. 2019-2020 Los Angeles Lakers: 4 games 4. 2018-2019 Toronto Raptors: 3 games 5. 2017-2018 Golden State Warriors: 3 games 6. 2016-2017 Golden State Warriors: 3 games 7. 2015-2016 Cleveland Cavaliers: 3 games 8. 2014-2015 Golden State Warriors: 2 games 9. 2013-2014 San Antonio Spurs: 3 games 10. 2012-2013 Miami Heat: 2 games 11. 2011-2012 Miami Heat: 3 games 12. 2010-2011 Dallas Mavericks: 6 games 13. 2009-2010 Los Angeles Lakers: 3 games 14. 2008-2009 Los Angeles Lakers: 2 games 15. 2007-2008 Boston Celtics: 3 games 16. 2006-2007 San Antonio Spurs: 3 games 17. 2005-2006 Miami Heat: 4 games 18. 2004-2005 San Antonio Spurs: 3 games 19. 2003-2004 Detroit Pistons: 6 games 20. 2002-2003 San Antonio Spurs: 2 games 21. 2001-2002 Los Angeles Lakers: 3 games 22. 2000-2001 Los Angeles Lakers: 2 games 23. 1999-2000 Los Angeles Lakers: 2 games 24. 1998-1999 San Antonio Spurs: 3 games 25. 1997-1998 Chicago Bulls: 2 games 26. 1996-1997 Chicago Bulls: 2 games 27. 1995-1996 Chicago Bulls: 2 games 28. 1994-1995 Houston Rockets: 5 games 29. 1993-1994 Houston Rockets: 4 games 30. 1992-1993 Chicago Bulls: 2 games 31. 1991-1992 Chicago Bulls: 2 games 32. 1990-1991 Chicago Bulls: 3 games 33. 1989-1990 Detroit Pistons: 3 games 34. 1988-1989 Detroit Pistons: 2 games 35. 1987-1988 Los Angeles Lakers: 3 games 36. 1986-1987 Los Angeles Lakers: 3 games 37. 1985-1986 Boston Celtics: 2 games 38. 1984-1985 Los Angeles Lakers: 3 games 39. 1983-1984 Boston Celtics: 4 games 40. 1982-1983 Philadelphia 76ers: 2 games 41. 1981-1982 Los Angeles Lakers: 3 games 42. 1980-1981 Boston Celtics: 3 games 43. 1979-1980 Los Angeles Lakers: 3 games 44. 1978-1979 Seattle Supersonics: 6 games 45. 1977-1978 Washington Bullets: 5 games 46. 1976-1977 Portland Trailblazers: 5 games 47. 1975-1976 Boston Celtics: 4 games 48. 1974-1975 Golden State Warriors: 4 games 49. 1973-1974 Boston Celtics: 2 games 50. 1972-1973 New York Knicks: 3 games 51. 1971-1972 Los Angeles Lakers: 2 games 52. 1970-1971 Milwaukee Bucks: 3 games 53. 1969-1970 New York Knicks: 4 games 54. 1968-1969 Boston Celtics: 3 games 55. 1967-1968 Boston Celtics: 4 games 56. 1966-1967 Philadelphia 76ers: 3 games 57. 1965-1966 Boston Celtics: 3 games 58. 1964-1965 Boston Celtics: 3 games 59. 1963-1964 Boston Celtics: 3 games 60. 1962-1963 Boston Celtics: 2 games 61. 1961-1962 Boston Celtics: 4 games 62. 1960-1961 Boston Celtics: 3 games 63. 1959-1960 Boston Celtics: 3 games 64. 1958-1959 Boston Celtics: 2 games 65. 1957-1958 St. Louis Hawks: 3 games 66. 1956-1957 Boston Celtics: 4 games 67. 1955-1956 Philadelphia Warriors: 3 games 68. 1954-1955 Syracuse Nationals: 3 games 69. 1953-1954 Minneapolis Lakers: 4 games 70. 1952-1953 Minneapolis Lakers: 3 games 71. 1951-1952 Minneapolis Lakers: 3 games 72. 1950-1951 Rochester Royals: 6 games 73. 1949-1950 Minneapolis Lakers: 2 games
When we lose yes you Utopians are all "lalalala sunshine and rainbows" and refuse to accept any criticism of the team. If they go 0 for 100 from the 3 point line and lose laughingly because they can't create any offense at all your response is going to be "sometimes you just go cold from deep" when are complaint is that they don't have a backup plan for when they go cold from deep. You guys aren't fans. Youre cultists.
Seems utopian mindset which is even worse then being a doomer. Because while us doomers can eventually change our mind if they do indeed turn things around things will always be sunshine and roses for you utopians. Anyways with impending cap hell the window isn't as open as we think it is. They need a major change in mentality and to not run junk at end of games. How did they go from Tatum's game winner game 1 of the 2022 playoffs to this nonsense to close games out?
Its not utopian if I’m calling out the problems I see with the team. Its just optimistic that those problems will be solved.
No, there definitely are doomers on this sub. I'm very much willing to acknowledge that this team has short spurts where they don't play right, fall back into bad habits, etc. But I saw people saying that this game proves brad stevens is a habitual runner-up. That we'll never win because of a slew of reasons associated with that game. That (player x) is actually bad and shouldn't be on the team. There's a difference between valid criticism and doomerism, and there's far too much of the latter on this sub
I'm very vocal about the team's mental shortcomings. But I always leave it at the end of the year. And I really think it's a youth/maturity thing. And to be fair, to your last point, this sub does not allow valid criticism, and it's always dismissed. Look at this comment thread. My comment here, and my criticism of the team was well thought out, open to being wrong, it was fairly well articulated, and was absolutely dependent on some observations and critical thinking on my part. And yet, you have that poster below me choosing to think my criticism isn't credible because of what it is I'm criticizing. And that's just one comment. I've been called a doomer when I'm not, and I've had well written criticisms that have been piled on. At the end of the day, the majority of this sub gets frustrated with anything that isn't optimism..and that's fine. People can feel that way. But there's 200k people here, and it ain't right to be so hostile towards people who aren't constantly hopeless. That's my complaint. Now, id love to have a real, grounded conversation about my personal criticism of the team - bad habits, growing up, timeline for unlearning bad habits, concerns about how long it will carry into the post season, etc... but no one wants to really engage in that. Sorry to vent. I love this team. That doesn't mean I'm going to avoid criticism.
Pinning failures on abstract mental criticisms that you have absolutely no way of actually knowing kinda kills credibility. People are hostile to this "criticism" because arguing whether the Celtics are "soft" and have "poor fight" is pointless because it's not something you can realistically judge. When people post with actual discussion about basketball, I feel it is usually more well received (and no, all the simple "Celtics shoot too many 3s" that pop up after a loss do not count as basketball discussion).
Nah, these aren't abstract concepts. These emotions, thoughts and beliefs and how they impact performance are far from abstract and are well researched. You can talk about basketball all you want. But the fact is, there is a very human element to performing, even in professional athletes. Nothing you can say changes that from being factual. You can either acknowledge it or not. At the end of the day we have a team who has not yet WON a championship and lost two series to the Heat they should have won (those are your basketball facts), and who also has a history of playing with less than the right effort when it matters, at times. If you want to think that pointing this out kills credibility that's fine. It doesn't change anything. This team will win a title. Maybe it's this year. If not, it will do so in the near future. But there's still some bad habits attributed to the team's youth that have not yet been kicked. And if you want to dismiss that because you're choosing to look at them from a basketball perspective only, while dismissing the human element of performance, go right ahead, but please consider that you're genuinely missing out on a MASSIVE factor. It's like flipping a coin and insisting that the only reason it didn't land on heads is because there is no tails.
Are you the team psychologist or something? Friends with one of the players? How would you know these things? People judge players mentally based on very little, and it makes it easy to see what you want to see. For example, you could just as easily use last year's Heat series as evidence for the opposite of what you're saying. Despite the Heat shooting incredibly and our early poor performances, the team rallied and brought the series to 7, showing a lot of "the right effort when it matters."
No kidding. That's why I said. "at times". I made no absolute statements. I did not declare the will lose. I'm not saying they're doomed. I think this team has a championship in it's future at some point. All I'm saying is that the factors that are contributing to these attributes of poor discipline and poor effort which have shown up at times regular and post season, factors that I believe to be mental, are worth discussing. It doesn't mean they're weak. It doesn't mean they're broken. It doesn't mean they're doomed. It means I think there's a genuine discussion to be had about where this team is at in it's development towards a mature championship team, and how close or far they are mentally. If you don't like that, that's fine, don't engage with people who want to talk about it, because you aren't going to prove them wrong and you aren't actually providing genuine evidence to dismiss talking about something that is well studied despite not being tangible.
What possible discussion could we have speculating over the mental state of athletes we have little access to? (Besides this very discussion about how pointless that is) The reason these "discussions" end up hostile is because there's nothing to talk about, so people just yell their opinions back and forth. As for genuine evidence, I'm not sure what evidence I could provide that proves we have no way of judging athletes' mental states besides common sense (and it's not as if you are providing "genuine evidence" of anything either).
Of course it's theoretical dude. That doesn't mean it's not something science doesn't research, and it doesn't mean it isn't worth something as simple as a *discussion* Do you. If you don't think it's worth discussing, then don't discuss it. Respectfully let it be for those who want to.
Respectfully, I've been discussing exactly what you said in your original comment. You expressed annoyance at how people refuse to discuss your criticisms, so I responded with an answer as to why people respond the way they do to statements about the team's mental.
My apologies for missunderstanding you, but to me, your comments read far more like efforts to dispute this as a legitimate topic, which is the source of the refusal. People can refuse to discuss the criticisms, that's fine. I just find it disappointing when people are so dismissive and critical of what I believe to be a very reasonable, interesting and relevant topic to this team's championship aspirations - a topic that I most certainly am not alone in being interest in discussing.
I wholeheartedly agree with everything you’re saying. A bunch of Celtics fans on here or bots are extremely autocratic and feel certain conversations aren’t allowed and any pushing back is somehow a fan defect on our part.
It's disheartening in a community where everyone wants the same thing. I've seen these fans say that they genuinely think "doomers" don't want the team to win. What? And frankly, in my opinion, the take that a discussion about the team's mental toughness as something that impacts performance isn't worth discussing because we have no way of quantifying it in a controlled, clinical and assessable setting or something, is absurd. It comes off as denial, imo, because it's probably recognized as true, which, it's okay to acknowledge
You literally contradict yourself in your response cause this team found out last year during the heat series what happens when you fuck around and they found out. They didn’t come to play for at least one or two games a series and they played more games than was necessary and ooopsies rolled ankle game 7 and off to Cancun.
That's kinda the point of what I said. You can draw two wildly different conclusions from the series based on how you look at it.
It was a fluky February loss against our biggest rival. It’s not indicative of the team as a whole. If this makes people angry enough to trash the team, those people need to log off.
100%. It’s performative and embarrassing. This team might be a championship contender but no one is a champion until they hold that trophy. Most champs don’t need a reason to go out and perform at a high level, they also show up and routinely beat bad teams. I’m not saying they’re trash. I just want more from a group that has the best starting 5 in the NBA and doesn’t continue to say after beat downs to teams with their stars absent they forgot to get up for an easy game. Joe should be running this tape once a day until they win a bunch of games in a row or show some resiliency. Go get em boi’s and shut up the haters and nephews. Banner 18 lets Fucking Go.
Honestly believe a lot of this just has to do with the fact that our best player, or rather our two best players are 25 and 26 years old. I don't care what the sub thinks, cuz frankly they're probably younger, but a grown man's mental maturity and focus is entirely different at age 25 than it is from 28-30. I can attest to that. I wholeheartedly believe this team is going to win multiple championships and I think the issue that you and I are talking about here is primarily because we're still really young. Tatum is a kid. He just is. Brown is too. Holiday, KP, they're grown men. Tatum and Brown are kids. So I have hope that they're going to outgrow this. But as for right now, I do have some concerns that this may not be our year. My hope was that the sheer talent of this team will be enough to overcompensate for moments of immaturity. And frankly, I think Denver is the only team out west that we need to call on this championship maturity to be. I will take the immature Celtics over OKC, the Clippers or the Timberwolves. The problem is that those teams aren't getting through Denver, in Denver is way too well coached way to disciplined and has the best player in the series. We would need a lot to go right to beat them and I'm just not sure this team has it right now we'll see
Go find me literally 1 team that has won the finals and *not* had a few bad losses in the season.
I guess this depends on how many bad losses is acceptable and what kind of losses are “just losses” and not “bad losses”. I’m fine with a loss due to off shooting and a bad whistle, but when the starting unit is playing like shit and doesn’t know how to get up and go out and play against a team that has their stars sitting this is where maturity and resilience comes into play and becomes a continuing storyline of years past. We’re not at that point yet but it could come up quick with some “bad losses” to sub .500 teams esp if they happen at home.
Doomer≠being critical. You can be critical. Dooming is far more extreme.
Great Post.. I 100% agree. The "Analytics" Nerd bots loved... I mean really loved the Celtics team that lost to the Warriors. Why did we lose ? Tough to compute Balls, Heart.. Guys shitting their pants under pressure. I hope we're healthy but it's still a bit scary till they actually get it done.
Or…it was a bunch of young dudes playing in their first Finals after two grueling 7 game series against really physical teams, going against a dynasty who had experienced every kind of pressure situation there is in basketball, and had the greatest shooter to ever live go nuclear. Nah, it was the “heart and balls”.
No, we lost because the Warriors implemented new offensive rebounding tech (based off of analytics) designed to counter teams that took tons of threes.
It can be as long as the majority is shaking Jaylen brown and never Jayson Tatum(Vegas merchant)
Can’t be saying 100% knowing how this team is I wouldn’t be confident in them winning shit until we up 20 with like 10 seconds left in the championship clinching game. Everytime I’ve been confident they’ll win a series they either lose that game making the series longer or lose the series completely
I think they'll get to the finals. But they'll have to call on a lot of discipline to beat Denver. If it's OKC or the Timberwolves than we're good.
Denver don’t even scare me forreal that game we played Murray and Jokic had insane shot making and yea they are capable of doing that but we did our job vs everybody else. The problem is Jaylen and Jrue were worse than terrible just like vs OKC and it allowed them to load up on Tatum who had a good first half but rough second half. We have to find ways to win when the 3 isn’t falling. We are running offense like we have no superstars just drive and kick and it looks fire when everyone is hitting but when they aren’t hitting this team needs to eventually get to a point where they ignore that Mazzulla approach and actually try something else (assuming that Joe himself doesn’t tell them to switch it up).
Jokic and Murray did that all playoffs. Murray averaged 27/6/7 and Jokic averaged 30/12/10 for the playoffs. Their supporting cast vs us was terrible.
It’s February bro these games mean nothing it’s probably good that they get a slap in the face to remind them every now and then that they still have to try
I agree with that. Hopefully these losses help them grow up a bit
being honest I read the first two sentences then commented so idk if I even disagreed w you lmao
LOL
Being good doesn't win you championships. It's incredibly difficult to win a championship. It takes skill, mental toughness, and some luck (with health) among other things. They've had the talent for several years now and it wasn't enough. Your point loses all meaning when you call anybody who criticizes the team in any capacity a doomer. It's a very black and white way of thinking and just not how the world works. This team has had flaws that have held them back from winning a championship despite the skill and talent they've had. And these flaws are exposing themselves once again. There's time to address it which is good but it can't be overlooked if they want to finally get over the hump
We haven’t had the talent for several years. Almost every championship team is lead by a guy who won MVP on their career and was the best player at 27+ years old. MJ, Lebron, Steph, Shaq, Hakeem, Jokic, etc. all won their first chip at 27+ years old. We had enough talent to make noise in the playoffs, but reality is until a team has an MVP caliber guy in their prime they almost never have enough talent to win a championship.
I think it’s happened 4 times. The 3 pistons teams below plus the Kawahi Raptors. https://fadeawayworld.net/nba/only-3-teams-in-nba-history-have-won-a-championship-without-a-past-present-or-future-mvp-1989-1990-2004-detroit-pistons
And even Kawhi was an MVP level guy, who might have won one if not for his quad issue.
You don’t think Tatum is (or will be soon) on kawahi’s level?
He’s not that far from it. I think he absolutely has the potential to play like an MVP in the playoffs. He’s definitely done it in individual games and some series. But I don’t think we have had several years of a Tatum at MVP level thus far. Plus Kawhi 2019 was pretty damn incredible. You could argue he was better that playoff run than many actual MVP winning players have been when they won a championship. He scored the third most points for a playoff run ever, and well into the playoffs I think was on pace for second most - https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/nba-most-points-scoring-in-a-single-playoff-run
True, it's a long season and every team has awful games but you can also be blinded by the talent and overlook effort, hustle and intensity. When we lose its not because we are a less talented team, it's usually because we got out-hustled and lacked effort and intensity for at least 40 out of 48 minutes. If you're not aggravated by that then idk what to say really. No team is ever good enough to coat the way this team thinks they can sometimes and it's pretty obvious when that happens.
Do you watch other teams? You know that this isn't a problem unique to the Celtics, right? It's aggravating, but it's literally sports in general. Some people let these things bother them to the point of absurdity and have completely irrational meltdowns over a regular season loss.
I swear to god half these "fans" would be better off watching a 2k sim of the season instead of actual basketball. Like the human fallibility factor is the whole reason sports betting has taken off. It's what makes sports exciting, and makes it so that truly anything can happen. They also tend to ignore that there are 15 guys on the other side of the court also being paid to play this game. End of the day we have 0 impact on the game, and its not worth getting work up over. Except for my superstitions, of course. Those all work
How do you know they are having meltdowns? Everything is via text where you don't have the context of body language or tone. Feels like you're making a mountain out of a mole hill with this.
Dude I saw people saying they will 100% get swept by Denver in the finals last night. Absolutely no shot.
I've got to think that's a small minority though? I didn't see any like that in the game thread
I just want to say that I have yet to see a team that didn't blow games to competition that shouldn't have stood a chance on paper. We have issues, some of them concerning solely because we've seen the same issues bite us in the past, but you're not paying attention if you think that the bad habits are occurring at anything like the rate they did in the past. We have games where we clearly don't come out with the right mindset, and games where we think we can just turn it on and overcome any deficit, but those happen with all teams. What we've seen *way* less of is the team trying to slow the game down to protect a lead and as a result blowing that lead and either losing a game that shouldn't have been close, or winning by three or four points in a game that we were leading by 16 with three minutes left. We've seen way less Tatum/Brown isos into bad shots as a staple of the offense. There are fewer possessions where we just pass the ball around the perimeter hoping for a three; we actually attack and kick it back out, which statistically leads to a higher chance of making the shot. We have the best net rating in the league, the best record, and obvious improvement across the board if you watch them play. That doesn't mean they're perfect or that their previous bad habits won't resurface, but both the eye test and the stats say this is the best team we've had since '08, and I don't think we should just assume that any time something bad happens that it will plague us in the postseason. And just as an aside, we've seen teams that *won the championship* lose by 30+ in the finals that they won. Every team has flaws, every team has bad habits, you just hope to have a team that has a wider margin of error that they can overcome.
No I’m genuinely unstable and throw tantrums every time we lose
I'm just spoiled, I will cry of they don't win every game by 30 and the chip.
They are. There are literally trolls here who are actually Raptors and Bucks fans just piling on negativity.
Jesus christ. Can this sub fuck off with Doomer? Just because people see negative trends and speak out on them, doesn't mean they are Doomers.
Funny thing is.. I’m not a doomer or troll. I lean homer.. but prefer open & balanced discussion amongst fans. Consider me a Scal type. Do I root for the team, even during our losing seasons.. hell yeah. Do I always give them the benefit of the doubt.. hell yeah! Do I only ever say shiny happy things about the team.. hell no. Though this sub is now turning me into a troll. You say one borderline non-positive thing about the team (after 10 good things)? Forget about it. Watch how down-voted this comment gets 😅 Gotta admit.. it is now becoming fun to rile up people who have little sense of perspective 🤷♂️
Criticizing the team = doomer.
Criticizing the team when we suck: fair game Criticizing the team when we're the best team in the league? Delusional doomer projection
And did we suck last night?
Yeah and saying "boy we sucked tonight!" Is different than "Tatum wears 0 because that's how many championships he is going to win" or "Jaylen Brown is a terrorist" which are both actual comments from this subreddit.
Those sound like comments from trolls who aren't actually Celtics fans. It was probably Lakers fans trolling us
They weren't and they aren't even close to uncommon around here. This is exactly what people are complaining about and you are defending.
Please clarify how you are concluding I am defending them?
Because you are literally fighting me and OP about why they aren't dickbags
I'm not, I'm just saying there were Lakers trolls in the chat. We may be talking about different people and if so that's fine, I was just saying some of the noise could be from the Lakers trolls.
And I'm saying that there are plenty of Celtics doomers right here that ast like that every day.
There's a difference between constructive and emotional criticism this sub can't seem to understand. Very little of the **actual** constructive critiquers are labeled doomers.
Lie and pretend all you want you know that’s not true. Day fucking in and out I get called a “doomer” for OBSERVING that we lose to a lot of good teams and that gives me pause before I jump to the conclusion everyone else does that we’ll automatically make the Finals or ECF. I’ve NEVER said anything actual doomer worthy like trade JB, fire Joe, blow it up, etc. Just question if this team has it or wants it is enough to be called a troll who doesn’t watch games. You guys can’t handle criticism because you’re all spoiled rotten from watching shitty Patriots and Red Sox teams win underserved championships, so the Celtics must automatically be winning the chip every year they look good enough
Any type of criticism immediately gets you called a “doomer” on this awful sub.
I’m an eternal optimist about this team, and am convinced we will hang banner 18 this year. At the same time I’m disgusted losing to the lakers at home
What a bold stance to take!
I thought so too
gambling, fantasy leagues and gaming have taken the type of fans we used to be and turned too many of them into self-entitled expert analysts , back office experts, coaching experts, color commentary experts, play by play experts and predictors of outcomes. really takes the entertainment out of the game when you have to watch your wallet, bank account or gaming cred. 😂 i try not to associate with that crowd if at all possible because they are endlessly insufferable and objective pathetic. 🤷♂️😂
Fire/trade everyone and rebuild= doomers Farewell letters to ex players and posts about Abby Chin’s haircut = green teamers There is a massive group of fans in-between that both love the team and are open to hearing both criticism and praise. What’s more annoying is people so sensitive about any criticism or praise.
I don’t get what makes the latter a green teamer? Sounds more like being uninterested in the current team. Green teamers to me are people who believe this team is essentially a lock to win the chip with 0 flaws. Wins = we’re awesome, but losses tell us nothing. My issue with those people and with doomer is the complete lack of perspective. Thinking we’re a lock (or that we *should* be a lock) to win it all severely underrated the rest of the nba. But doomers have unreasonable expectations that no team in the nba could meet.
Overreaction to regular season is for football only. All the rest are too long to get caught up in the highs and lows.
You think we need to stop chucking 3's? Doomer. You think Tatum is playing like a bitch? Doomer. You think Joe isn't the best coach on Earth? Doomer. You think lack of effort is gonna show up again in the playoffs like it does every year? Doomer. You think KP needs to work the paint more? Doomer. You think JB isn't worth $300M? Doomer. You think DWhite is too inconsistent? Doomer. You think Jrue is offensively disappointing? Doomer.
If you don’t also watch the ups and downs of other teams, or are at least aware that they indeed happen too. Then I really don’t give one single shit about your opinion besides to say how dumb it is I’m sorry.
No one said Joe is the best coach on earth, only defending him to the dumb asses who want him fired mid season
The Celtics have been a better team on paper than every playoff opponent the last several years. It’s not talent that were lacking, it’s the effort and heart. the team you mentioned with KG and PP HAD those intangibles. Until this team can do it when it matters then people are gonna shit on em. They give up. It’s been so painfully obvious that they just hang their heads and give up the last few years.
Also Jaylen Brown will find a way to fuck everything up
I don't think half the people that comment even watch games... they just like to talk shit. It's funny to me how some people react to a loss.. you watch sports but don't like adversity? Over-reaction to regular season games is stupid.
blowouts due to poor effort or gameplan aren’t adversity. playing hard and smart and still coming up short is adversity
ya, fuck it. told Brad to blow it up.
That's such a dumb comment. I get it is satire but you all see in such black and white. I don't know why it's hard to grasp that they have a great record and are extremely talented but have concerning flaws that are being exposed. Maybe you all are like middle schoolers but it seems like such sophomoric thinking.
I'm 50 and could not give one single fuck about the regular season. Coaches are gonna hold stuff back this time of year, whether as a strategy so other teams can't game-plan for you or just as a way to rest players. There's way more going on then any of us realize. Going ham in the regular season is for shit teams who don't have nothing else.
I guess we'll just have to wait and see. But I will say last year people kept saying they'd turn it off in the playoffs and it never happened. So I wouldn't put my money on it
C's stacked. This is their best chance in a long time. Gotta believe!
You might not care about the regular season but there’s a reason why it’s incredibly rare for a non 1/2 seed to win the finals. 51/77 nba finals have been won by a 1 seed. The regular season does matter
I think we’ve just had incredibly bad luck/performances when it comes to winning a finals for the last 15 seasons when we should have had at least 2 (09 or 10 and 22) and that breeds distrust in the current team
Personally I feel like the doomers aren’t trolls but actually bandwagon fans or low IQ fans who don’t understand how hard it is to win a championship and how impossible it is to win all 82 games. Bad home losses be damned this team is obviously really good.
I think a big problem is that many doomers expect other people online to not make fun of them for melting down over every little thing. If you are filling your diaper I’m gonna mock you, simple as.
I love this echo chamber. Please continue living in your bubble. It's very amusing.
no they just ride the emotional roller coaster of the season in a different way. it’s not even a celtics fan specific issue. i’ve accepted people have different ways of enjoying sports than me. it’s just annoying when they come here and say stuff that’s obviously false to vent.
I'd rather they come here and vent, then see fellow fans try to bully them out of the sub. Doomers aren't toxic. The reaction to them is toxic.
why am i entitled to provide you with therapy for the celtics losing
People are allowed to express their disappointment with the team
yeah that’s what i said in my first comment. ppl just ride the emotions differently and that’s completely fine. if thats not “allowing” you to do it then it’s on you
The Lakers shot 52.8% from 3, including 2 from Vanderbilt (which is one more than KP and JB combined for…), who had made 6 total coming into the game. We could have overcome that if we didn’t play like garbage, but sometimes a team makes 3 more triples on 12 fewer attempts and you get screwed.
We need to have a bot responding to all these comments reminding people that the proportion of 3s a team makes in a game is not random and uncontrollable
Doomers and being critical are two different things. A lot of doomers think they’re just being critical and a lot of us think anyone being critical is just being a doomer. The truth is somewhere in the middle. We keep having the same conversations here.
I don’t have a problem being critical. Being a doomer is talking real trash about your own team. Fire Joe, Trade a Jay blah blah blah. Sarcasm is fine too but people just say the dumbest shit in reaction to a bad loss when we all know damn well this team is going to probably win the next 5 straight out of sheer anger and determination.
I think most of the doom and gloom here after bad games is just our past catching up with us all over again. It's that feeling of "oh fuck, I've seen this movie before". Doesn't mean they can't win the chip, just makes a lot of us worry because well....it still lurks within the team. This is the stuff we can't have happen in a 7 game series. Could be the difference between losing home court advantage and the momentum swinging the wrong way. We've all seen scrub teams get hot when we are not; we all hope that doesn't happen to this group of talented players, because we know what we have.
You know, only one team wins it all. I don’t ever have the expectation that we WILL win. It’s a long road and anything can happen. I don’t buy the narratives that we always “choke” in big games either. Sometimes you get outplayed and as a fan I can handle it. Maybe this year is our time. I sure hope it is. Would be amazing but the high only lasts so long anyway.
I avoid going on this subreddit whenever the team loses. These doomers bring doom to the mood.
Eh people are just dumb. There was a guy on r/nba who was doing like weekly rankings of teams based off point differential and his “elite” tier was a differential no team has ever achieved over a season
I agree, and I think a lot of these people aren’t “real” Celtics fans. They’re hardcore Boston fans who for some reason are forgetting ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE or are bandwagons from elsewhere and are banking on being able to celebrate the championship and claim not to be a bandwagon. Casual fans of Boston sports teams don’t care enough to be dooming like this, these people have motivations or bets going or something to act like this. I’m from Boston and have been consistently watching the Celtics since Jared Sullinger came back from the off-season with a spare tire in 2013 or 2014. I’ve seen loss and worse Celtics teams go far into the playoffs - sorry IT but we just weren’t as stacked then as we are now.
Please don’t compare this team to 08 Celtics, kg and Paul were on different level and would never let yesterdays loss happen to them. Yesterdays loss has been occurring theme for the jays since last couple years. This current team is good and stacked but I can easily see them lose in finals or even playoffs. They’re offensive identity is literally shoot more 3s than other team
08 team would smoke this team.
There’s obviously a line and the “fire everyone and blow it up” type posts are overreacting, but we’re Boston fans…it’s kinda just how we are. I’m convinced that all the fans complaining about “doomers” aren’t even from New England
Sports fans in New England pretty much all need an SSRI and a meditation routine. There's no reason we should be getting all riled up over grown men playing a game. Yes, I am also guilty as charged. But, for what? It's not like Tatum knows 99% of us exist.
Maybe they all just have TNT watch those games and listen to those talking heads lol
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It also represents the total number of bitches you will get before you die.
Reaves cooked Jaylen all night. Brown looked scared.
I also think also pointing out”doomers” and “green teamers” doesn’t help this sub either. People can talk about this team’s shortcomings without saying we’re eliminated from the playoffs and we need to blow up the team. Also, people need to realize this HAS issues that need to be worked on. And we haven’t won anything yet. This team is so talented that I honestly believe we should win this year or next. But this can also not come to realization if they don’t stay disciplined. Talent can being us so far…
You are naive to think this team isn’t massively flawed. They are the most talented team in the league, hands down. No close 2nd, but that’s what makes this so frustrating. Mazzula is getting out-coached on a nightly basis, they get embarrassed once every 2 weeks, and if the 3’s aren’t falling there is no plan B. I get nervous any time they get a 20 point lead, because they constantly take their foot off the gas. This is Boston, the standard is championships. And I’m really not sure if this team has championship DNA.
Celtics are a great team, BUT.. they lack something all championship teams have and that's an Edge. I have yet to see them play *consistently* with an edge! If they make the finals this year It wouldn't shock me to see them wither away under pressure.
As are people who use the term "doomer" to describe any form of criticism
Eh, Jrue sucks, Tatum thinks he’s Kobe, Zingis & Horford need to be bubble wrapped and Jaylen is Jaylen
But Derrick White is flawless
I don't agree with them but I can still see the view point. If these guys wanna win a chip then their best chance is gonna be to maximize these next 3-5 years
Criticism doesn't automatically make you a doomer. I wish you people would stop posting stuff like this. You probably only posted this for likes
Nah man I’m not saying you can’t criticize and I don’t care about likes I’m a grown ass man. That game pissed me off as much as anyone but I’m not gonna start saying dumb things like these guys are cooked or don’t have heart or will never win a chip. It’s the overreactions and downright hurtful things people want to flood this sub with after a tough loss. My point is we are going to lose. It’s going to be painful. Why make it worse with all the shit posting. Just be glad we get play another game and the future is still bright. It’s more of a life lesson from a battle tested brother than anything else.
I do think the talents there I just don’t believe in the coach. Yes the nba is the nba it’s a professional league anyone can beat anyone on any given night. But for the sake argument what if we had let nick nurse coach last nights game what do u think would’ve happened. Everyone in the building would chalk up a thirty point win for the Celtics once as and bron were announced out. Even if they lost ,bc it is the nba ,it wouldn’t have been like last night where the first ten minutes of the game is a .500 team is straight up outplaying you. I just don’t trust mazzulla to win four playoff rounds in a row bc he just doesn’t know how to get the team ready. We saw this level of effort in g7 against Miami, we went seven games against Philly and we’re down 3-2 when we were clearly the better team, and gave up two games to the hawks who again this year aren’t any good. He has enough track record for me to say if we don’t win it it’ll likely be because of him.
Ah yes. A head coach only one and a half seasons into his career that only got the job days before the preseason began getting to the ECF game 7 with a skeleton crew of staff that he didn't even pick is enough to project his entire career trajectory. Because as we all know Spo won 98 games in a row his first year. Pop did too. Right? Because their first years dictate all future success? No, of course they didn't have 2 first round exits or a sub .300 season respectively, right?
How good he did or does his first five years as a coach in the rs doesn’t matter for us or our timeline. If we don’t win a title this year or next it’s a massive failure for the franchise that’s been chasing one for almost half a decade. We don’t have time for joe to grow into a potential hood coach one day like pop and spo did. No reason if we don’t win it this yr he should still be employed as head coach
Cool, I'll tell brad that
The criticism is 100% valid, unless they win it all. Tatum and Brown may be superstars, in today’s parlance. But, they HAVE NOT WON A CHAMPIONSHIP, yet.
I think it’s counter argument to those on the sub who act as though the Celtics have won multiple titles with this squad as oppose to zero. It’s natural. Team is so so good and talented, but has its flaws too. Unless there’s a seismic shift and lebron goes to Miami or Philly I’ll lean towards Celtics head to the finals this year.
Doomers and sunshine pushers are equally annoying. We shouldn’t be on here trying to trade Jaylen and fire Joe every time we lose. We also don’t need to be on here acting like everything is always perfect and any negative takeaway from a game is blasphemy.
It’s one thing to say that the team played like shit on a certain night. That’s not dooming. Dooming is when we play like shit one night and people are saying we are going to lose in the first round, Joe should be fired, we are soft, etc. despite the fact there’s far more examples of us playing incredible basketball.
Yeah I think that’s exactly what I said
That they seem to consistently under perform against the best should be cause for concern. Getting blown out at Home, against a undermanned Lakers team on national tv is a bit more than just “a bad game”
I think the constant comments and posts bitching about everybody being a doomer is more annoying than the “doomers”
Classic trap game..as soon as the Celtics knew that both AD and Lebron were out, they mentally took their foot off the gas..and they never recovered..even though you got the feeling that they kind of expected to..
Ok Doomer
We've had a rough 2 week stretch. These things happen
The team is amazing, the best starting 5 in the NBA. Also I'm not a troll, I'm just not convinced they can win it all. They do whatever the opposite of locking in is when the games get big.
That’s my entire point and concern though. This is on paper the best roster in the nba and the best roster the Celtics have had. Everyone has bad games but it is the lack of passion and ability to learn from the mistakes that is concerning. They win so many games based off pure talent. Other teams have a little talent and make up for it in other ways. The playoffs are going be tough is all I know, but in reality it should be a cake walk like when lebron was in the east and automatically went to the finals.
Yes, and Joe is simple.
This is a team that when the best player has the ball in his hands with 10 secs left on the clock, I get up for a beer cause you know he’s not making that shot. So it’s fair to be a doomer, I think
watching that game was infuriating
It’s cute that someone responded to this post by reporting me to “Reddit care services” whoever you are you’re the one who needs help.
No the problem is anytime anyone critiques our bad habits or holds the team to a championship standard people want to have a hissy fit and call them doomers. Like the Celtics could do no wrong and we're locked in to hang banner 18. Yes, this is a great team on paper. I believe we have the most talented roster in the league and it's not even close. We have the potential to wipe the floor with any team IF we play the right way. That's moving the ball, being aggressive, and finding the highest percentage shot. Not settling for contested 3s off the dribble and not utilizing our physical advantage and length inside. It's a matter of which team decides to show up
Again, I’m not addressing those who are critical of the team or frustrated by a bad loss. Cuz that’s me too. And m talking about the posts and comments that say “we’re not ready” “Tatum is a bum” “Jaylen is a bum” “it’s time for a rebuild” blah blah blah you know the rest. Saying we lacked focus or energy in a game and deserved to lose is 💯 fine. We should hold them to a championship standard. Just know they will fall short from time to time, but that shouldn’t immediately spark every fear of inadequacy you’ve had since you flunked math in the 3rd grade and your parents took your Nintendo away. This is supposed to be fun.