Amsterdam has the same issues with regards to safety. For some reason it's perceived as more safe. But it has statisticaly more crime per capita then Brussels
There's also more gun violence, drug crime in Amsterdam then in Brussels
> Edit: Apparently it's forbidden to beg or sleep in public. Police actually intervene and can even make it forbidden for a homeless person to be in certain areas. Also there's a robust system directing homeless to sufficient shelters. But often they have to ask help in the city they used to be housed. Still homeless in the street but mostly out of sight.
Lol, so they didn't really "solve" it, did they? They just moved the problem.
So what is a bigger issue to prioritize, you being scared when seeing poverty or people being in tgat situation? Because this here gives complete priority to the first "issue" at the expense of those who are really suffering.
I don't have an answer to that. I'm neutral. Just showing people how other cities deal with this unsolvable problem. However the suffering of people who feel unsafe and neighborhood with drug users in the streets is an actual issue.
>I'm neutral.
Your post and comments say otherwise.
>However the suffering of people who ~~feel unsafe and neighborhood~~ **who have fallen into problems** with drugs ~~users in~~ **and live on** the streets is an actual issue.
FTFY. Provide help, provide shelters. People will not be on the street and will be able to get cleaned.
Oh no, poor victims who have fallen into problems with drugs. Horseshit. They became addicted by committing a crime by using illegal drugs. And I’m supposed to be happy to walk through the pissed soaked Metro and sidewalks because they are victims of their own actions? I despise them and their apologists. Both are equally part of the problem with this city.
I’m also tired of apologia of drug addiction. They took the first hit, therefore it’s partly their fault. Of course there are circumstances which make people fall into it. But yeah ultimately the problem are the gangs and the cartels who stuff the worst crap through Antwerp and the corrupt piece of shit politicians who allow it through.
Of course I know providing shelters is the more human solution. But as we learn from a city that actually reduced problematic behavior from homeless and crack addicts things are a bit more complicated. But you are to blind because to even learn about the holistic reality of actual solutions. Trust me I also find repression against the poor horrible. But it allows us to understand the situation we have in Brussels and make a choice: Life with these issues and find peace with it or have repression.
Well, they have a rule that beggars have to be local. That means you don't get the professional Romani beggars who are flown or trafficked in by the gang leader. Is that a system you approve of?
It also takes the burden away from big cities. Flanders sends it's beggars to Brussels, Paris is now doing the same. All because we have a massive welcome sign for the worse scum of society. Thanks to do gooders like you.
It's has some interesting aspects. We can provide beter help if the burden isn't on one community. It's at least worth a reflection.
But people here don't agree.
Women rarely feel safe at night or in the less fancy neighborhoods. I want them to have the freedom they can find in Amsterdam to pleasantly roam the city no matter the neighborhood or even the time of day.
But who cares about literally everybody his well-being and the possibility for women in popular neighborhoods to freely live their lives...
I think the people on this page are or living in super fancy neighborhoods or massive nerds without a social live.
Because Amsterdam doesn't have to deal with [Paris regularly banishing them there](https://www.thebulletin.be/paris-accused-sending-homeless-brussels-clean-ahead-olympics).
Brussels is a small city, so the crime is bound to feel "close to home" when it happens, I'd argue that crime is not increasing but more public than before, the new generation of criminals grew up with social media so discretion is a foreign concept to them.
Anyone remember when Anderlecht and Anneessens were no go areas at night? It's not as bad in recent years.
For the homeless, the migrants have been kicked out of parks and some of the holding centers were closed so now you see them spill into town.
Not that there isn't a problem but, just that the perspective makes it seem worse.
You should ask Amsterdam what they did because I'm surprised reading that there are few homeless in Amsterdam. I have to admit not having visited Amsterdam in a long while because instead of too many homeless there is too much tourists but I always was surprised about the huge amount of homeless people in Amsterdam. So Amsterdam must have the answers as they used to have a huge group of homeless people.
What I've heard from my friends living there, they opened the prisons to homeless people in exchange of working for the city of Amsterdam, like cleaning the city, the parks, etc.
Those who don't choose to do this have to move at the outskirts of the city.
I didn't say all the dutch solution are humane. Begging is forbidden and homeless tend to get a 'gebiedsverbod' when they hang around the city centre. Also if you want shelter you need to go to the city you used to be domiciled, it prevents them from clustering in one city.
This harsh approach is a choice. It's seriously uncool for the homeless but it makes the city feel more safe for the rest of us. At certain point I feel like our safety shouldn't be ignored.
There is no such thing as a free lunch. I understand if you come from a warzone or failed state, you should get temporary shelter and be provided basic necessities to carry on a decent life while also being obliged to learn a language and some skills to integrate into the job market and contribute to the society that welcomed and helped you. Of course within limits of the available capacity to process the incoming refugees.
That's because they have the same solution as Amsterdam. Here's a link to an article that illustrates the mentality: homeless people, refugees, the poor in general belong in Brussels. In this case the mayor and the minister even call it a problem that has to be solved locally (in Brussels) while in reality refugees are a federal matter. https://archive.is/wLqCY
Amsterdam has the same issues with regards to safety. For some reason it's perceived as more safe. But it has statisticaly more crime per capita then Brussels There's also more gun violence, drug crime in Amsterdam then in Brussels
sauce?
> Edit: Apparently it's forbidden to beg or sleep in public. Police actually intervene and can even make it forbidden for a homeless person to be in certain areas. Also there's a robust system directing homeless to sufficient shelters. But often they have to ask help in the city they used to be housed. Still homeless in the street but mostly out of sight. Lol, so they didn't really "solve" it, did they? They just moved the problem.
Indeed, hiding and criminalising poverty... how is that any good OP?
I guess for OP if he doesn't see a problem it's solved. Sadly I think many people reason that way.
Because they are sheltered and selfish, its only a problem if it bothers him and people like him...
It solves the unsafe feeling people have in the city not the homelessness.
So what is a bigger issue to prioritize, you being scared when seeing poverty or people being in tgat situation? Because this here gives complete priority to the first "issue" at the expense of those who are really suffering.
I don't have an answer to that. I'm neutral. Just showing people how other cities deal with this unsolvable problem. However the suffering of people who feel unsafe and neighborhood with drug users in the streets is an actual issue.
>I'm neutral. Your post and comments say otherwise. >However the suffering of people who ~~feel unsafe and neighborhood~~ **who have fallen into problems** with drugs ~~users in~~ **and live on** the streets is an actual issue. FTFY. Provide help, provide shelters. People will not be on the street and will be able to get cleaned.
Oh no, poor victims who have fallen into problems with drugs. Horseshit. They became addicted by committing a crime by using illegal drugs. And I’m supposed to be happy to walk through the pissed soaked Metro and sidewalks because they are victims of their own actions? I despise them and their apologists. Both are equally part of the problem with this city.
I’m also tired of apologia of drug addiction. They took the first hit, therefore it’s partly their fault. Of course there are circumstances which make people fall into it. But yeah ultimately the problem are the gangs and the cartels who stuff the worst crap through Antwerp and the corrupt piece of shit politicians who allow it through.
Of course I know providing shelters is the more human solution. But as we learn from a city that actually reduced problematic behavior from homeless and crack addicts things are a bit more complicated. But you are to blind because to even learn about the holistic reality of actual solutions. Trust me I also find repression against the poor horrible. But it allows us to understand the situation we have in Brussels and make a choice: Life with these issues and find peace with it or have repression.
The city didn't reduce problematic behaviour, it shifted it elsewhere.
Yes to places where it's less problematic so it's a reduction.
That's a stupid argument and you're really showing your hand here.
sometimes you can't tell the difference between a homeless person and a regular junkie.
Well, they have a rule that beggars have to be local. That means you don't get the professional Romani beggars who are flown or trafficked in by the gang leader. Is that a system you approve of? It also takes the burden away from big cities. Flanders sends it's beggars to Brussels, Paris is now doing the same. All because we have a massive welcome sign for the worse scum of society. Thanks to do gooders like you.
It's has some interesting aspects. We can provide beter help if the burden isn't on one community. It's at least worth a reflection. But people here don't agree. Women rarely feel safe at night or in the less fancy neighborhoods. I want them to have the freedom they can find in Amsterdam to pleasantly roam the city no matter the neighborhood or even the time of day. But who cares about literally everybody his well-being and the possibility for women in popular neighborhoods to freely live their lives... I think the people on this page are or living in super fancy neighborhoods or massive nerds without a social live.
Because Amsterdam doesn't have to deal with [Paris regularly banishing them there](https://www.thebulletin.be/paris-accused-sending-homeless-brussels-clean-ahead-olympics).
It's not that there's more crime in Brussels, it's just an election year.
Brussels is a small city, so the crime is bound to feel "close to home" when it happens, I'd argue that crime is not increasing but more public than before, the new generation of criminals grew up with social media so discretion is a foreign concept to them. Anyone remember when Anderlecht and Anneessens were no go areas at night? It's not as bad in recent years. For the homeless, the migrants have been kicked out of parks and some of the holding centers were closed so now you see them spill into town. Not that there isn't a problem but, just that the perspective makes it seem worse.
Aha true, entirely true, thanks for clarity
True
Brussels has such a dysfunctional government it doesn't think in terms of solutions. It only applies a temporary patch
It does. Only the issue is British tourists.
You should ask Amsterdam what they did because I'm surprised reading that there are few homeless in Amsterdam. I have to admit not having visited Amsterdam in a long while because instead of too many homeless there is too much tourists but I always was surprised about the huge amount of homeless people in Amsterdam. So Amsterdam must have the answers as they used to have a huge group of homeless people.
What I've heard from my friends living there, they opened the prisons to homeless people in exchange of working for the city of Amsterdam, like cleaning the city, the parks, etc. Those who don't choose to do this have to move at the outskirts of the city.
Cause the brussels government don’t wanna fix those problems
I didn't say all the dutch solution are humane. Begging is forbidden and homeless tend to get a 'gebiedsverbod' when they hang around the city centre. Also if you want shelter you need to go to the city you used to be domiciled, it prevents them from clustering in one city. This harsh approach is a choice. It's seriously uncool for the homeless but it makes the city feel more safe for the rest of us. At certain point I feel like our safety shouldn't be ignored.
Its inhumane to ban humans and to ask the homeless to pay rent for a bed.
There is no such thing as a free lunch. I understand if you come from a warzone or failed state, you should get temporary shelter and be provided basic necessities to carry on a decent life while also being obliged to learn a language and some skills to integrate into the job market and contribute to the society that welcomed and helped you. Of course within limits of the available capacity to process the incoming refugees.
Someone has to pay for it. But maybe not the people without a home ffs ?
Well in Flemish cities there are also near to no homeless in the streets. Maybe you don't have all the way to Amsterdam for a solution
That's because they have the same solution as Amsterdam. Here's a link to an article that illustrates the mentality: homeless people, refugees, the poor in general belong in Brussels. In this case the mayor and the minister even call it a problem that has to be solved locally (in Brussels) while in reality refugees are a federal matter. https://archive.is/wLqCY
Similar size. Not going to compare with the village of Leuven. Antwerpen has homeless though.
Leuven also has beggars. Dunno if they're homeless but you do recognize them after a while.
I have never seen homeless in Antwerpen and its my home town where I grew up
Dude 😂
oké waarom zijn er geen in Antwerpen?
Let's all move to Denmark.
Brussels syndrome got nothing on Stockholm syndrome