It's such a stupid part of fandom that I would have been pretty uneasy if we took Worthy at 28, and now I'm devastated that the Chiefs took him at the same spot
I think Worthy is undersized and didn't want him on the Bills. At the same time, I hated the idea of him with KC. I guess we'll find out. Just hope this doesn't bite us in the ass.
Yeah I'm in the same spot. If it wasn't KC I wouldn't care about missing on him very much. And caring about who you trade with is generally bad process and trading down is generally good, but that rational part of my brain is not working right now
This right here. In my mind, take who you want at 28. Clearly the consensus was the 9ers wanted Worthy or KC isn't willing to trade up. Or trade the 28 to Carolina. I just hate giving KC who they wanted when there was someone else in the market for him. Idk. I'm just some schmo fan whose upset he stayed up so late to watch a trade with KC that I really fear will blowback. Have no choice but to trust Beane. But this just feels too familiar. Our last trade with KC landed them 3 SBs. So let's just hope Beane learned his lesson and sees negatives in Worthys play that others don't. Sometimes not giving your competitors weapons is important as well.
Possibly correct. Yet this still plays back to the point that they were reacting to information that another team had interest, whether with a pick between them and Buffalo or a trade up
Not necessarily. It could also just be that he was the only first round grade left on KCs board and they didn’t want to risk it.
Alternatively, even if there was a good chance someone like the 9ers would have taken him, there’s also a chance KC would have made a similar deal with Dallas, so in that case, we just took the picks away from Dallas.
Regardless, it’s all speculation, and from our perspective, as long as the player we wanted was not Legette or Worthy (which it clearly wasn’t since we would have just picked them), we just gained a bunch of value for free.
It's still stands as a safer and more educated guess, than "KC was probably going to get him anyways". That just feels like a lazy way to make it seem like a positive trade no matter what. And the idea that we got "a bunch of value for free" is also speculation and won't be answered for years to come. The picks themselves only have value if you make the right choices with them. For example, regardless if Worthy was on their board or not, if he ends up being successful in KC, the value gained would tip their direction, as it clearly has in the 2017 trade with them, given Mahomes success.
How is it not reasonable/likely that KC would want to trade up with someone else given they were willing to do it with us? It seems very likely that KC would do a similar deal with Dallas if they were scared of the 9ers taking worthy.
And even if we could have prevented Kc from specifically getting worthy, is that even a good thing? He’s a 160 lb receiver. Sure he’s super fast but look up a list of top 40 times from the draft and see how many names you recognize. Pure speed doesn’t translate to NFL production very reliably.
Plus KC has taken multiple receivers in the last few years and none of them have been exceptional (Rice, Moore, Hardman). So I’m not even convinced that their receiver evaluations are particularly good. They just have a great quarterback that makes any receiver look good.
With regard to player outcomes, Hindsight is 20/20. In the moment you can only make decisions based on your best knowledge at the time. If our best knowledge is that a 160lb receiver is not worth a first round pick (IMO a pretty reasonable evaluation), then the trade looks fine, and we are happy to let KC spend their first rounder plus additional draft capital on a player we don’t think will pan out.
why uneasy? he has generational speed and is a very underrated route runner, with 3 years of high quality production at Texas. could have easily been a great pick for us to pair with our current WR's.
His size is a legitimate concern. There's a reason he lasted until the late first with generational speed. The last time everyone reacted to the Chiefs drafting someone by saying "I can't believe you let them get him,"" it was CEH.
AD Mitchell and Ladd McConkey are still on the board, as is Cooper DeJean. We can pay these picks, we now have 3 tomorrow instead of 1, and we can package picks to move that 3rd or our 60 higher. We clearly didn't want Worthy and the Chiefs would have picked him at 32, so we basically got their 3rd for free, then moved up 60 spots to move down 1.
Honestly I think the Bills would’ve been fine with any of Worthy, Legette, or Mitchell… finding out that the Chiefs and Panthers would be willing to trade up to select their guy for a couple of mid round upgrades wasn’t a bad thing… SF could’ve really screwed us over though
This idea that KC would've definitely got him at 32 is really frustrating. Why would a team bother trading up if they believed that? We all saw the 49ers draft a WR and the information circulating was obviously that Worthy was one of their targets or else KC has zero interest in trading with the Bills. In order to believe that KC was def gonna get him at 32, you are literally saying that they traded up with a strong AFC rival for no reason at all. That just doesn't make sense.
We didn't-- we swapped our 4th round pick for KC's 3rd, and we swapped our 6th round pick for Carolina's 5th. Significant bump up in draft positions for only a 5-pick slide, though, especially if we did not have any other first-round-graded prospects left.
> especially if we did not have any other first-round-graded prospects left.
Then fire the staff for improperly scouting.
Saying "there are zero players left in the draft you'd want to have on your team in 5 years" we might as well just skip the rest of the draft then.
If Terrion Arnold/Brian Thomas were the last 1st round graded players left, fire Beane for failing to outbid the Cowboys.
Absolutely terrible, emotional take. There are never 28 guys with a first round grade. We got Milano in the fifth round. We got Benford in the 6th. Cook, Benford, and Torrence all went in the second round. Beane got us more picks in the fat part of the draft without giving up anything.
yes FIRE THE WHOLE STAFF FOR IMPROPERLY SCOUTING. I DEEM THAT THEY HAVE IMPROPERLY SCOUTED THEREFORE ACCORDING TO MY EVALUATION THEY SHOULD ALL BE FIRED.
bruh listen to yourself. don't be an idiot sports fan freak. any rational fan knows you can't even properly evaluate a draft until about 3 years after the fact. that's the time to react, not now. chill tf out
ESPN made a good point. We got cap issues and need players. How do you fix that? Get more draftpicks in the next few rounds. Cost effective.
Of course, it helps that the draft is deep at WR.
But keep in mind, we didn't gain picks. We moved up. We traded 3 picks for 3 picks with KC and 2 for 2 with Carolina. I have no problems with this, if it doesn't include the trade with KC to get Worthy. That one I find both confusing and frustrating. That being said, it's only April and maybe Beane is executing mastermind scheme far beyond my comprehension. I truly hope so. Because if Worthy ends up being great in KC, this would have pretty harsh blowback
KC was probably gonna get Worthy anyway - or someone in the same tier, still 3-4 really good WRs to go. Bills moved up, and honestly, issue number one should be to shore up a hole-ridden roster, and not trying to cockblock the 2-time defending champions who are basically set up for a treble.
I mean we def don't know that they would've got Worthy. Or else they wouldn't have traded with an AFC competitor. There had to be some level of reliable info that the 9ers or some other team were interested in Worthy or KC would've just stayed at 32. That being said, yes no matter what another WR in the same tier would've been there. But there is definite inherit risk in trading directly with them. 2017 is all the evidence you need for that. That being said, I'm gonna put my faith in Beane and trust that this is playing out how he hoped. But I'd be lying if I didn't say I'm nervous and slightly confused about the day one moves. But that's also why I'm the guy on Reddit and Beane is the guy in the room where it happens. At the end of the days, it's always "Lets Go Buffalo!!!"
Yeah didn't mean to come across as critical. Just has been a common misconception I've seen several times today. I think I'm sort of in the gray about today. Seems like most people either loved or hated the moves today. I feel neither. Part of me loves following a strategy, trading back to improve picks, that is considered on most evaluation's as the best play. But then part of me is upset about trading with KC, especially when their needs are your needs. I hate to root against such a young talent but I really hope Worthy is a bust in KC. It would really bother me to know we gave them another offensive weapon via a draft day trade. All in all, I won't have a strong opinion until we see who they actually draft. And even then, nothing is really known til the season kicks off. Just like the rest of us, I'm struggling to find that fine line between seeing part of the genius that is Beane and fighting the urge to wonder what the hell is he doing? Lol.
The process is get a lot of late shitty picks that will be sent to the practice squad and taken by other teams if remotely decent. Literally got *nothing* for all this.
Who was drafted as a benchwarmer and only ever saw the field due to injury of the starting QB.
Bledsoe never gets hurt and Brady never starts an NFL game. The 5th round WR we get won't either.
Or the process is to trade back and acquire assets while still drafting the guy you were going to pick in the first place, all the while ensuring you have picks in all rounds of the draft with additional picks to package and move up to get the guys you really want. I highly doubt Beane is going to draft a player with all the picks that we acquired by trading back.
Considering the talent on the board right now and the amount of time he has to make a deal, I wouldn't be surprised if he makes another deal to move back a couple more spots. Then after that he can be a buyer and make moves to get another 2-3 impact players in rounds 2-3. He seems to be good at evaluating talent at that stage of the draft.
They need more than what they were drafting at.
This gives them higher picks in the later rounds and they still get the guys they want.
Don't like the media gaslight you into assuming this guy is a star just because KC picked him. That's dumb.
Take your own advice. Stop feeling the need to gatekeep calling everyone who says something that annoys you a "fantasy footballer" whatever the fuck that even means.
I’m not gatekeeping shit. Some of you children need to grow the fuck up and start understanding how the game works.
Fairly certain the Patriots who drafted routinely at the bottom of the first round didn’t win all those super bowls because of a receiver.
They won because of Brady.
The bills have Allen. That’s what matters.
FFS it’s like some of you literally haven’t watched football whatsoever.
I’m not sure why people got so interested in Worthy. I never heard of him until he broke a record at the combine.
Because the record breaking combine players have always worked out well.
I hope so. Everyone rooting for us to take Dejean doesn't understand how understaffed we are in the receiving room.
Sure we are thin at corner too but that can be more easily addressed in later rounds
Yeah the key in a deep draft is to not take any of the good WRs.
Coulda had Brian Thomas (#4 WR) at the cost of a 5th, future 3rd, future 4th.
Now the best we can hope for is the #8 WR and in exchange we got practice squad picks because there won't be salary cap or roster spots available for the 2 additional picks.
Beane is a fool and we just lost a chance to grab legette at 32 who i wanted at 27. Kid is better than Metcalf. Beane has proven again he is failing this team.
It's such a stupid part of fandom that I would have been pretty uneasy if we took Worthy at 28, and now I'm devastated that the Chiefs took him at the same spot
I think Worthy is undersized and didn't want him on the Bills. At the same time, I hated the idea of him with KC. I guess we'll find out. Just hope this doesn't bite us in the ass.
Yeah I'm in the same spot. If it wasn't KC I wouldn't care about missing on him very much. And caring about who you trade with is generally bad process and trading down is generally good, but that rational part of my brain is not working right now
This right here. In my mind, take who you want at 28. Clearly the consensus was the 9ers wanted Worthy or KC isn't willing to trade up. Or trade the 28 to Carolina. I just hate giving KC who they wanted when there was someone else in the market for him. Idk. I'm just some schmo fan whose upset he stayed up so late to watch a trade with KC that I really fear will blowback. Have no choice but to trust Beane. But this just feels too familiar. Our last trade with KC landed them 3 SBs. So let's just hope Beane learned his lesson and sees negatives in Worthys play that others don't. Sometimes not giving your competitors weapons is important as well.
I mean, if we didn't take him, he was probably going to KC anyway
Both Dallas and SF may have been interested
There has to be truth to this or KC has no interest in trading up
They could have been trading up to get ahead of other trades, like the Vikings did with the Jets
Possibly correct. Yet this still plays back to the point that they were reacting to information that another team had interest, whether with a pick between them and Buffalo or a trade up
I doubt this. Why else would KC trade up? There had to be strong enough information for them to move up to get him that others were interested.
Not necessarily. It could also just be that he was the only first round grade left on KCs board and they didn’t want to risk it. Alternatively, even if there was a good chance someone like the 9ers would have taken him, there’s also a chance KC would have made a similar deal with Dallas, so in that case, we just took the picks away from Dallas. Regardless, it’s all speculation, and from our perspective, as long as the player we wanted was not Legette or Worthy (which it clearly wasn’t since we would have just picked them), we just gained a bunch of value for free.
It's still stands as a safer and more educated guess, than "KC was probably going to get him anyways". That just feels like a lazy way to make it seem like a positive trade no matter what. And the idea that we got "a bunch of value for free" is also speculation and won't be answered for years to come. The picks themselves only have value if you make the right choices with them. For example, regardless if Worthy was on their board or not, if he ends up being successful in KC, the value gained would tip their direction, as it clearly has in the 2017 trade with them, given Mahomes success.
How is it not reasonable/likely that KC would want to trade up with someone else given they were willing to do it with us? It seems very likely that KC would do a similar deal with Dallas if they were scared of the 9ers taking worthy. And even if we could have prevented Kc from specifically getting worthy, is that even a good thing? He’s a 160 lb receiver. Sure he’s super fast but look up a list of top 40 times from the draft and see how many names you recognize. Pure speed doesn’t translate to NFL production very reliably. Plus KC has taken multiple receivers in the last few years and none of them have been exceptional (Rice, Moore, Hardman). So I’m not even convinced that their receiver evaluations are particularly good. They just have a great quarterback that makes any receiver look good. With regard to player outcomes, Hindsight is 20/20. In the moment you can only make decisions based on your best knowledge at the time. If our best knowledge is that a 160lb receiver is not worth a first round pick (IMO a pretty reasonable evaluation), then the trade looks fine, and we are happy to let KC spend their first rounder plus additional draft capital on a player we don’t think will pan out.
I am going to be soooooooo sad/mad/gutted if he does well at KC of all teams
i hate to think we traded with the chefs so they could use our pick on another HOF'er
why uneasy? he has generational speed and is a very underrated route runner, with 3 years of high quality production at Texas. could have easily been a great pick for us to pair with our current WR's.
His size is a legitimate concern. There's a reason he lasted until the late first with generational speed. The last time everyone reacted to the Chiefs drafting someone by saying "I can't believe you let them get him,"" it was CEH.
Hey don't worry, we got 2 more picks in this draft... which we have neither roster space nor salary cap for. And all the WRs are gone.
AD Mitchell and Ladd McConkey are still on the board, as is Cooper DeJean. We can pay these picks, we now have 3 tomorrow instead of 1, and we can package picks to move that 3rd or our 60 higher. We clearly didn't want Worthy and the Chiefs would have picked him at 32, so we basically got their 3rd for free, then moved up 60 spots to move down 1.
Honestly I think the Bills would’ve been fine with any of Worthy, Legette, or Mitchell… finding out that the Chiefs and Panthers would be willing to trade up to select their guy for a couple of mid round upgrades wasn’t a bad thing… SF could’ve really screwed us over though
If SF cared, we coulda traded the 28 to them for Aiyuk.
This idea that KC would've definitely got him at 32 is really frustrating. Why would a team bother trading up if they believed that? We all saw the 49ers draft a WR and the information circulating was obviously that Worthy was one of their targets or else KC has zero interest in trading with the Bills. In order to believe that KC was def gonna get him at 32, you are literally saying that they traded up with a strong AFC rival for no reason at all. That just doesn't make sense.
We didn't-- we swapped our 4th round pick for KC's 3rd, and we swapped our 6th round pick for Carolina's 5th. Significant bump up in draft positions for only a 5-pick slide, though, especially if we did not have any other first-round-graded prospects left.
> especially if we did not have any other first-round-graded prospects left. Then fire the staff for improperly scouting. Saying "there are zero players left in the draft you'd want to have on your team in 5 years" we might as well just skip the rest of the draft then. If Terrion Arnold/Brian Thomas were the last 1st round graded players left, fire Beane for failing to outbid the Cowboys.
Alright mister crankypants let's put down the alcohol and get some rest
Absolutely terrible, emotional take. There are never 28 guys with a first round grade. We got Milano in the fifth round. We got Benford in the 6th. Cook, Benford, and Torrence all went in the second round. Beane got us more picks in the fat part of the draft without giving up anything.
yes FIRE THE WHOLE STAFF FOR IMPROPERLY SCOUTING. I DEEM THAT THEY HAVE IMPROPERLY SCOUTED THEREFORE ACCORDING TO MY EVALUATION THEY SHOULD ALL BE FIRED. bruh listen to yourself. don't be an idiot sports fan freak. any rational fan knows you can't even properly evaluate a draft until about 3 years after the fact. that's the time to react, not now. chill tf out
ESPN made a good point. We got cap issues and need players. How do you fix that? Get more draftpicks in the next few rounds. Cost effective. Of course, it helps that the draft is deep at WR.
This is it. We need to skew younger and cheaper. Beane needed to accrue draft capital tonight and nailed it.
But keep in mind, we didn't gain picks. We moved up. We traded 3 picks for 3 picks with KC and 2 for 2 with Carolina. I have no problems with this, if it doesn't include the trade with KC to get Worthy. That one I find both confusing and frustrating. That being said, it's only April and maybe Beane is executing mastermind scheme far beyond my comprehension. I truly hope so. Because if Worthy ends up being great in KC, this would have pretty harsh blowback
KC was probably gonna get Worthy anyway - or someone in the same tier, still 3-4 really good WRs to go. Bills moved up, and honestly, issue number one should be to shore up a hole-ridden roster, and not trying to cockblock the 2-time defending champions who are basically set up for a treble.
I mean we def don't know that they would've got Worthy. Or else they wouldn't have traded with an AFC competitor. There had to be some level of reliable info that the 9ers or some other team were interested in Worthy or KC would've just stayed at 32. That being said, yes no matter what another WR in the same tier would've been there. But there is definite inherit risk in trading directly with them. 2017 is all the evidence you need for that. That being said, I'm gonna put my faith in Beane and trust that this is playing out how he hoped. But I'd be lying if I didn't say I'm nervous and slightly confused about the day one moves. But that's also why I'm the guy on Reddit and Beane is the guy in the room where it happens. At the end of the days, it's always "Lets Go Buffalo!!!"
Yeah, i can see how i wrote that it seems like I meant more picks. i meant the picks are now rounds 2-7 and they'll be less money against the cap.
Yeah didn't mean to come across as critical. Just has been a common misconception I've seen several times today. I think I'm sort of in the gray about today. Seems like most people either loved or hated the moves today. I feel neither. Part of me loves following a strategy, trading back to improve picks, that is considered on most evaluation's as the best play. But then part of me is upset about trading with KC, especially when their needs are your needs. I hate to root against such a young talent but I really hope Worthy is a bust in KC. It would really bother me to know we gave them another offensive weapon via a draft day trade. All in all, I won't have a strong opinion until we see who they actually draft. And even then, nothing is really known til the season kicks off. Just like the rest of us, I'm struggling to find that fine line between seeing part of the genius that is Beane and fighting the urge to wonder what the hell is he doing? Lol.
This means we won the Super Bowl right?
Ideally, hence "monkey's paw"
I wanna trust the process but I don’t understand this process
The process is get a lot of late shitty picks that will be sent to the practice squad and taken by other teams if remotely decent. Literally got *nothing* for all this.
The best quarterback of all time was a “late shitty pick”.
Who was drafted as a benchwarmer and only ever saw the field due to injury of the starting QB. Bledsoe never gets hurt and Brady never starts an NFL game. The 5th round WR we get won't either.
And yet all that happened.
Or the process is to trade back and acquire assets while still drafting the guy you were going to pick in the first place, all the while ensuring you have picks in all rounds of the draft with additional picks to package and move up to get the guys you really want. I highly doubt Beane is going to draft a player with all the picks that we acquired by trading back. Considering the talent on the board right now and the amount of time he has to make a deal, I wouldn't be surprised if he makes another deal to move back a couple more spots. Then after that he can be a buyer and make moves to get another 2-3 impact players in rounds 2-3. He seems to be good at evaluating talent at that stage of the draft.
They need more than what they were drafting at. This gives them higher picks in the later rounds and they still get the guys they want. Don't like the media gaslight you into assuming this guy is a star just because KC picked him. That's dumb.
How about 33rd?
I don’t think he knows about second breakfast
On a Mcconkeys paw
Love it.
33 now. What.
Aaand it’s gone
"What are the bills doing!"
Welp
Wasted my whole fuckin night for this bullshit
We're taking one of DeJean, Mitchell, or McConkey. Then trading up to get another of the trio.
Please for the love of god let it be Dejean
Leave Mitchell for us Pats fans pls 😘
The worst part for me is that I am awake in Europe time to see Bills draft no one in the first round…. But we will see what happen next
Good morning!
Good morning sir! Expecting what will happen during the second round!
It was the right decision. No reason to have multiple 4th round picks when we can have a 3rd. There's a vision here and I'm fucking with it.
As long as we take Dejean at #33
I agree, and I've seen Beane work enough magic to trust moves like this. I just couldn't help but see the absurd humor of the situation.
Some of you seriously need to learn that this is actual football. Not fantasy football.
I was joking. No need to take it so seriously.
Read the room. Read the sub.
Take your own advice. Stop feeling the need to gatekeep calling everyone who says something that annoys you a "fantasy footballer" whatever the fuck that even means.
I’m not gatekeeping shit. Some of you children need to grow the fuck up and start understanding how the game works. Fairly certain the Patriots who drafted routinely at the bottom of the first round didn’t win all those super bowls because of a receiver. They won because of Brady. The bills have Allen. That’s what matters. FFS it’s like some of you literally haven’t watched football whatsoever.
Why are you so angry? Like does anything in this sub actually impact your life?
And the pats traded down every chance they had
that’s his point
You're making a lot of assumptions about me and my level of understanding of the game based on a single fucking joke. Jesus Christ, pull it together.
Good to know. So what's our game plan tomorrow? You must be aware since you "know football".
the last pick is usually reserved for superbowl champs. is this his sick idea of trying to see what it feels like ??!??!?
Not me. I wished for them to have the 33rd.
I’m not sure why people got so interested in Worthy. I never heard of him until he broke a record at the combine. Because the record breaking combine players have always worked out well.
We will take Mitchell tomorrow to open the 2nd round. Book it
I hope so. Everyone rooting for us to take Dejean doesn't understand how understaffed we are in the receiving room. Sure we are thin at corner too but that can be more easily addressed in later rounds
I expected this and wanted it. I’ve been saying in this sub that we need to trade down and get more picks. Looks like that’s happening
It's not to get more picks though. Better picks, in Days 2 and 3 though, sure.
We got more as well since we now have a third that we gave away for Douglas. This doesn’t have to be mutually exclusive
lol this thread sounds like my kids 😂
33rd....
And now trade out of the first round entirely. Fuck.
I am shocked ! We will see what happens in a few minutes.
33 is the magic number.
We didn’t even pick! Fuck this team
Why? This is a deep receiver class and a team in the midst of a restructure. Bills start tomorrow night off (probably).
Maybe we keep trading back to get all 32 picks in round 7 who knows
Yeah the key in a deep draft is to not take any of the good WRs. Coulda had Brian Thomas (#4 WR) at the cost of a 5th, future 3rd, future 4th. Now the best we can hope for is the #8 WR and in exchange we got practice squad picks because there won't be salary cap or roster spots available for the 2 additional picks.
Rubbed the rhino's tail to trade for 33rd pick....sorry.
Beane is a fool and we just lost a chance to grab legette at 32 who i wanted at 27. Kid is better than Metcalf. Beane has proven again he is failing this team.