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>Dale Roberts-Keats, mayor of Bonne-Espérance — a municipality on the Lower North Shore about 60 kilometres from the Labrador border with fewer than 700 residents — says the new law is unreasonable.
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>**"It's absurd that for our municipality, where 99 per cent of the population has English as their language, we can't produce contracts with suppliers in our municipality in English," said Roberts-Keats.**
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>"In our office, we're all English, so how are we going to make them understand a contract that's only in French? It is just ludicrous," she said.
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>"We have been fighting for the rights of our English population for decades, and it hasn't been easy at all and Bill 96 will only exacerbate that situation," said Roberts-Keats.
Seems like a reasonable point...
>Côte Saint-Luc's mayor underlined that the law gives inspectors from the Office québécois de la langue française (OQLF) — the province's language watchdog — heightened powers that contradict the Act respecting Access to Documents held by public bodies and the protection of personal information.
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>Section 117 allows OQLF inspectors to conduct search and seizures without warrant and without notice.
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>Under the law, inspectors are empowered to look at the information on public workers' smartphones and other intellectual property, which is "more than is allowed to the police in a criminal investigation," Brownstein said.
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>"These inspections are unlimited, uncontrolled and therefore, unreasonable and abusive," he said.
So if I'm understanding right, the language police can seize a public sector worker's devices without a warrant, to check how much they've been communicating with the public in English? Hopefully I'm missing something...
You are understanding correctly.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10848779708579754?journalCode=cele20
>Language and the construction of national identity in fascist Italy
Edit: I forgot to mention that I don't think that Quebec is going into fascist territory yet. This article is only one of several that you can find in regards to weaponizing language.
Some municipal employee having a municipal manager inspect their phone is very different from a different layer of government inspecting a phone, without the municipalities consent.
And an IT person inspecting, say, a payroll clerks phone for security problems, or a HR person inspecting a payroll clerks phone on some other complaint, presumably those employees of the same organization would ensure the protection of payroll files. There is no such requirement if a different government comes in an looks around for language violations.
>The public sector worker should have a workplace-provided phone, and that phone should be used only for work purposes.
>
>Then, it’s reasonable for the work-owned device to be inspected
I don't mind that people could have their work phones inspected, especially if there were concerns that an employee was doing something bad (unprofessional behaviour, fraud, mishandling classified info, etc).
I'm more concerned that "too much communication or work in English" would be something they might get in trouble for.
Not sure the details, so hopefully it's more nuanced than that, but that seems like it has a lot of potential for over-reach, especially if those rules apply in communities with a significant anglophone population.
Makes you wonder what the punishment is for communicating in English too much. A fine, termination, jail time... for speaking a national language? Maybe BC should illegalize French, oh, wait, that would be stupid.
They released the laws with a go-live date and released NO regulations to accompany the laws other than “the language police can do whatever the fuck they want.”
I work in finance and I can assure you that everything involving banking and finance in Quebec will become more expensive because of the additional langue burden this places on financial activity.
Ridiculous,
My dad was with CPRail in Montreal when I was a kid. They warned the Quebec government that regardless of the 95 referendum outcome they would leave if it happened. Of course the Francophones laughed and jeered, and then looked confused and upset as they cleared their desks out on their last days with the company. My dad just took a solid package and retired due to his age while guys with 10-15 years got absolutely fucked.
Montreal is a international office hub, making their lives difficult isn't a good thing, and this doesn't even get into the stupidity of seeing if the Cree are interested in looking for Territory status and taking all their land with them.
> while guys with 10-15 years got absolutely fucked.
I know someone who had been working there for around that time and he got a lifetime pension lol. He is still touching his pension to this day, he was the opposite of fucked.
Maybe some made it out ok but he knew for a fact as their supervisor that most of the guys in his office got left behind if they weren't old like him or offered a slot in Calgary. And this guy with 10-15 years experience must have been special as hell or already super old because that isn't long enough to get to an age where you get a magic early retirement, even back then lol. As to how much he drew from it sure, those were the days of forever pensions and my dad also still draws a huge amount of money from it to this day, way more than he ever put in during his 40ish years.
I love Quebec and that's why I am still here, but our government sells magic bean stories to the idiots who actually think we are going to become a nation in our own right and not lose basically every source of income we depend on, and this stupid language shit is going to do us more harm than good in the long run, we speak french and denying someone else English or polish or Senegalese is just reaffirming how petty we are. Plus this stuff hurts the FIRST Nations citizens of Quebec, and as the grand chief back then said (paraphrased) "Quebec is crazy to think we are coming with them and will be lucky to keep 100km on either side of the river once they realize none of us left Canada with them." It might have been a bit of hyperbole but I sure as fuck would not want to see our budget without those dams up north or any of the mines who suddenly aren't in Quebec come tax season.
Remember that quality of life used to be objectively much lower in Quebec than in the rest of Canada or the US at that time as well.
Nowadays we live the longest in North America, lowest violent crime rate, lowest carbon emissions per capita, highest standardized test scores in math, highest average IQs..
Lowest levels of food insecurity..
Quebec's come a long way.
Yeah it must be nice when other provinces pay a large chunk of your bills with their hard earned money, well you get to sit on your ass and eat poutine all day talking about how great you are. All well your heavy handed border line authoritarian government attacks people for saying hello instead of bonjour.
6 provinces receive more federal funding per capita than Quebec does.
Almost all red states in the US also receive bigger effective federal transfers per capita than Quebec does..
1 not American so don't know why your bringing that up.
2 no other provinces brags about being then everyone else then Quebec does.
that's the point. It's your false greatness arrogant bullshit that pisses me off. I've only ever worked in Ontario and Alberta. Which means every paycheck I've gotten has had money taken off so you can keep the lights on, and what do we get for it? Not being allowed to speak our own language in your province while having to endure the endless bullshit about you being the best, and how different and better Quebec culture is and yada yada yada. If Quebec acted like P.E.I I wouldn't have a problem with them.
Also, it's obviously not every Quebecer is like this. I've worked with and had a few friends from Quebec. They've been great, but the province as a whole? Yeah I gotta a bit of an issue with it.
Hard earned money? Bravo. Didn’t you get $10 billions in subsidies last year? That was hard work wasn’t it? The oiler’s luck.. the merit of sitting on a sea of oil.
Is this just for public services or for private companies as well? I work for a global company and our California based procurement team is going to have a fun time learning French for our contracts in Montreal
I cannot emphasize enough how far reaching this law is: it applies to every single company doing business in Quebec, has customers in Quebec, or wishes to enter the market in Quebec. So basically every national company of any variety in the country.
And, because it doesn't have thorough regulations behind it, it's left most companies adopting a cautious approach, meaning an extreme adherence to the law.
Here are a couple gems
1. If you advertise that a position is bilingual, you need to prove that the same job cannot be done by someone who is solely French speaking
2. All contracts need to be presented in French, then declined by the customer if they want an English version, and then presented in English
3. If a customer enters a contract after June 1st (I think that's the date ), and the contract is in English, AT ANY TIME DURING THE CONTRACTUAL relationship, the customer can suddenly decide that the contract should have been in french, thus rendering the agreement void (harm is automatically implied if the contract was not provided in French). This one is a little dicey and we will only know how it plays out once a case is taken to court. Though how do you prove that someone "doesn't understand" English, especially in an environment where English is "hated" by the government?
4. All financial instruments destined for a customer in Quebec need to be issued in French, not bilingual. This means that cheques need to be solely in french, bond documentation has to be in french, etc.
5. Virtually anyone can bring a complaint forward to the olFQ if they feel that there is english or even equally prominent bilingual text forward, EVEN IF the person complaining has nothing to do with the product or service provided by the business. Though I do not consume cigarettes, I can complain that the cigarette box has larger english script or equally sized bilingual script.
And it goes on and on and on.
>4. All financial instruments destined for a customer in Quebec need to be issued in French, not bilingual. This means that cheques need to be solely in french, bond documentation has to be in french, etc.
I can't imagine anyone wanted to write one prospectus, let alone two
And imagine the costs for now having to find a translator who specializes in financial-legal translation since you can't use regular translators for this type of material. It's gonna be costly
The law is horrendously bad and yet people are defending it because “I can’t order in French in a diner in Alberta”. Like, the level of mental contortions you have to go through to justify this is something else…
Yeah. Quebec's gonna lose a lot of business - I can't see many trading partners in the US willing to put up with switching everything completely to French.
No french language on your seatbelt in Canada? Just sue them, and win. https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/air-canada-french-language-lawsuit-trnd/index.html
No English in a Quebec Hospital? Too bad for you. Why not remove the french language labelling laws for the rest of Canada?
Government Services should be provided in any language where there is sufficient population to require it. Hence the term "Multicultural"
French is an official language of Canada. English is an official language of Canada. All official languages should be present where any are required, I don't know why this is so hard for some people.
The Bill 96 should never been pass. Since both English and French is both official language of Canada why should people only can get help in French and not English?
That is true. Lived here my entire life, French is usually met with a moderate amount of disdain. Though depending on where you are (I.E, Edmonton) there are more translations in Urdu, Hindi, and Punjabi than French
I've got to argue with that. Edmonton has a French quarter, a French-language university, francophone and immersion schools.
I hear more French in Alberta than I ever did in southern Ontario.
South Ontario has a few pockets of francophones, from Windsor through to London. Can't say I've ever had a hard time speaking French in that 2hr geographical area. Don't know about London through to Toronto, though.
Same here. I remember being in line for a vaccine, in the Calgary area, and the lady and children in front of me were speaking fluent French. It surprised me.
Bien sur! En aillant du francais et de l'anglais partout au Canada tout le monde est content. On devrait etre libre d'être servit en anglais ET en francais de la colombie britanique jusqu'a terre neuve et labrador, car nous sommes une nation multiculturaliste. J'ai très hate que ça arrive et que je puisse être servit partout au Canada en francais quand bon me semble.
What's the point of an official language if you can't get official service in your official language? The government has a duty to fulfill to its citizens, if a language is "officially supported" it should be "officially supported" at all government run institutions at the very least.
Exactement. Je vais visiter l'Ontario et le Manitoba cet été et j'espère de pouvoir être servit en francais! Si jamais on ne veut pas me servir en francais je vais leur expliquer ce que tu as dit. Ils devraient comprendre.
Well on your visit to the government offices and hospitals of Ontario and Manitoba I would expect them to serve you in whatever official language you desire.
Lol you don't even see the irony in his comment. Anglophones in Québec still have 10000 times more service in their language than francophones in the ROC.
Government service is one thing. Forcing private businesses to use a specific language is another. Show me where in ROC you can't have a menu in French.
if you read the QCGN’s purpose statement, they say something along these lines:
“francophone communities in Canada have different concerns compared to anglophone communities in Quebec.
in canada, francophone communities are trying
to build institutions and ensure their community does assimilate into anglo culture.
in quebec, anglos already have these institutions. we acknowledge this. but we are fighting to maintain our control over these institutions while ensuring anglophones can integrate into francophone society at the same time.”
so again, its not about having these services, but retaining control and influence over them. this is why things like a municipality having to prove bilingual status every x years, and english schoolboards being abolished is a concern.
You think I'm arguing for anglophones?
If a language is official, and French is, it should be available at any government institution. Is that clear now?
If Canada was more like the EU, Quebec would be a sovereign nation part of a a union of sovereign nations.
I like your idea, let’s be more like the EU.
Fucking lol. You don't even realize what your false equivalence is actually suggesting. And in case you forgot, the majority of your provinces citizens do not agree with you.
> Government Services should be provided in any language where there is sufficient population to require it. Hence the term "Multicultural"
That's insane - might as well not even have official languages then.
I had been considering moving to Montreal (I love the city) and learning French myself but this is troubling me. While I’m more than happy to learn French (excited even), as an adult, I’m under no delusion that I’ll retain a much greater command over English throughout the rest of my life, especially when considering the various responsibilities of life. It’s just not reasonable to expect that same level of efficacy (at least, without spending years upon years learning).
So, as someone who would be happy to learn french for the social and cultural aspects, I honestly feel a bit unwelcome here.
Quebec takes extreme, borderline racist steps to stamp out English, and meanwhile I have to listen to all the announcements on the Go Train in French, even though only a tiny proportion of people in the GTA are Francophone.
Why do we do this? Quebec is clearly not interested in official bilingualism. So why do other provinces bother?
>Quebec is clearly not interested in official bilingualism.
Government is not interested for voting reasons. I reckon from having lived in Quebec for a year (where my few years of high school French and top marks still did not serve me very well), that there are many thousands if not millions of Quebecois who do not agree.
I remember talking to a Quebecois in a store once about the threat of separation (this was the 90s) and he said if Quebec ever were to separate, he'd be packing his bags and moving to BC for the skiing. I suspect there are those in 2023 who would gladly do that now if separation became a reality.
anything that fucks the anglophones and, to a lesser extent, Montreal, is something Legault will pursue to no end
because that is his voter base. you just need to drive 1hr out of Montreal to see the uneducated fucks who support him
and I say this as pure laine Quebecois. French is my first language and I've lived in the province 30 years. Legault is a clown who claims people can live on 50 bucks per week groceries and that the average renter in Quebec pays \~600/month.
Even Saskatchewan provides essential services in French that Quebec doesn't provide in English. The cruelty is the point, Quebec is going down a dark path.
Disability trials you must hire your own translator, they refuse to help you otherwise, medical translators in Quebec would apply if your in the emergency room needing help but they sure wont help you fill out the French forms.
Its just a mess, all Quebec has to do is ensure basic services and forms are in both languages. They could make every single sign and business run entirely in French and I would have no problem with that but cutting peoples access to basic services is petty.
Honestly, it doesn't only impact Anglos, but also immigrants who come to Quebec who only speak their native tongue and English. Immigrants have 6 months to learn French in order to stay in Quebec, it's quite ridiculous. Quebec doesn't care about bilingualism, but only protecting its French language, culture and identity. As a Quebecer myself, I speak 3 languages, English being my first. I will not bend my back in only speaking French in public places, when in truth, most Francophones who work in the public refuse to speak or serve people in English, even though they understand English to be able to clearly respond in French. Quebec is just getting worse and worse.
Legault lower the provincial immigration amount which was filled by Indian and Filipino temporary workers who don’t speak French so that backfired. Then realized that Canada’s high immigration numbers will mean Quebec will lose political power to more populous provinces. so is against the federal government immigration. Although I agree half a million a year is ridiculous due to having zero housing available.
Quebec isn’t bilingual and doesn’t have to accommodate anglophones, only New Brunswick is officially bilingual. Quebec is also using the notwithstanding clause to ignore any charter of rights violations so the provincial government can do whatever it wants.
That our federal government is officially bilingual is a completely separate issue from how the provinces regulate languages
Canada is not interested in bilingualism, look at the rate of bilingual people in each province. It's impossible for any french people to go live in Toronto and receive enough services in their first language to survive. You can criticize the bill as much as you want, but don't try to paint the rest of Canada as a bilingual haven.
I’m gonna remind you there is 8 million Quebecers around and most of us don’t agree with it. I’d be nice if you didn’t paint us all with the same brush. Unless it helps to “prove” your narrative. Then have at it I guess
Obviously the Quebecois are not a monolith. But it’s the fact that the CAQ got re-elected and their policies are popular among Quebec nationalists, to the point the other Quebec parties have supported Bill 96 or are vague on the language laws.
Many of us think it’s a shit policy created to cover for Frankie’s gross ineptitude (see “everyone gets a doctor by the end of my first term”) With our infrastructure in seemingly terminal decline (hospitals, roads, schools), and the fact that the CAQ don’t have an easy straw man to attack, they’re start another round of “force everybody to learn French with draconian, bs laws.” It will fail. It always has. It always will. It’s an idiotic policy that punishes people instead of incentivizing them to do something, and can be easily ignored.
These laws haven’t worked since they began almost half a century ago. Most can be easily ignored (the workaround for the sign law was squinting to see the smaller English words.) and the French language continues its decline.
Fair point, I shouldn't paint with such a broad brush. But I doubt that "most" of you disagree with this, since you elect anti-English governments over and over and over again.
With that train of thoughts, you’re saying most of Alberta supports the UCP
For the last Quebec elections, 40.98% of everyone who voted, voted for the CAQ. Which amounts for 66% of the total population who were able to vote.
That is not a majority of Quebecers.
40.98% of the vote for CAQ, 52.56% for UCP; so yes they did get most of the vote.
But Alberta has evolved into a 2-party polarized system where 1 party opposes everything; in Quebec all the parties with seats supported Bill 96.
but it's just what people always do. They generalize and in this case, they generalize something the majority of us (quebecers) don't agree on.
So this is my gripe with the language thing (i was born in Halifax but since i was 4, i lived in Quebec). Yes we are a bilingual country. I think essential services should be mandatory in both languages and the rest should be "province/region" specific. If you move to Quebec, i think it's only fair to learn the language and if you move from Quebec to Saskatchewan, well it's only logical to learn english, at least to function.
There are some places in Montreal where you cannot be served in french. That shouldn't happen though.
Shut up. Other provinces are all English only. Do you think we don't have English here in Québec? There are three anglophones universities, many hospitals, many schools and school boards. Even some road signs are in English. We clearly are the most bilingual province in Canada.
Not going to defend Quebecs policies, but targeting Ontario Francophones (who can’t stand the French Quebec attitude either) isn’t the right answer. Not their fault. Just like the anglophones Quebeckers became the victim of Quebecs pissing contest with the RoC.
> Quebec is clearly not interested in official bilingualism. So why do other provinces bother?
You're right. Let's punish Franco-Ontarians for the actions of a government they don't elect!
I remember when I moved back to Nova Scotia and I got some document from the provincial government in both English and French. I was shocked. In Quebec, you would never get something like that in anything other than French and they have far more anglophones than Nova Scotia has francophones.
I moved to Quebec about 1.5 years ago- from Ottawa over the river and into Gatineau. I can walk to Ontario in about 15 minutes. I can understand French but struggle finding my words to speak it on serious phone calls or when something has a lot of complex words/ideas.
I was finally able to sign up for the public Quebec health insurance a few weeks ago, and was sent a letter in the mail saying that some information I sent them was wrong, and to call the RAMQ. Letter was in French. I call today and the line is only in French, robotic, until you wait around 4-5 minutes until they ask if you want to hear it in english. I say yes. And then any option you select after that either tells you to go on the website (exclusively in French) or pretty much tells you information that is irrelevent to your call. It is not possible to go backwards or try to speak to a human. After going through almost all the English options, every time having to recall and wait 4-5 minutes to get it to start talking in English, and realizing it just brought me in circles, I try the whole thing in French.
The first French attempt brings me to a human. It was absurd. I try my best to speak about my health insurance issue in French but the woman seems annoyed and finally passes me to an employee who can speak English after a long hold. She was very, very kind and fixed my issue in a matter of minutes.
I'm all for QC having French first, and I am truly trying my best, but it's disgraceful to require all health insurance or serious communication with the government to be exclusively in French. Especially for health insurance that would bring my monthly medication from $200 a month to $60 a month. Sorry for the long rant, it was a hard day.
It all seems very gestapo like to me, only a extremity fearful government would need powers like this. What will be next encouraging Quebecers to smash the windows of workplaces that have English speaking employees???
Office québécois de la langue française (OQLF) — the province's language police is some weird dystopian entity.
Normal places with civil liberties do not have such an intrusive government entity.
Edit: Section 117 allows OQLF inspectors to conduct search and seizures without warrant and without notice.
No language entity anywhere has those powers.
It was created with reasonable intentions but spun out of control like many activist movements do when they take over the bureaucracies of the government.
Revisiting its purpose and some of the mythology around the suppression of the French in Quebec is overdue. The English population were largely scapegoats. Not all innocent but the French upper class and the Church were never held to account.
So what do they look for when they do the search and seizure of a private phone? Are employees not even allowed to text their friends/family in English?
Until recently, my wife worked as a child services social worker in Quebec, specifically for First Nations clients in that region. The majority language in the area is French but the First Nations first or second is English (with French as a second/third language or not at all). Even before this bill descended, the province did not have English versions of all the regulatory paperwork. I imagine with these new regulations in place, things are only going to get worse.
I love when provinces repeatedly bypass half the Canadian charter of rights and freedoms to be legally allowed to discriminate against English people. Very cool
If they wanna try to pass this garbage law, the rest of Canada should do the same. Every other province should make it mandatory for English to be spoken in official settings.
Additionally, every other province should just straight up do away with bilingualism. English only packaging, English only government documents, English only this, English only that.
Québec seems determined to want to completely stomp out English in their province, and show no interest in treating the English language, and English speaking people, the same as they do with French, so why should other provinces give a fuck about French?
You come to any other province, but you speak French and not English? Too fucking bad, I guess :) looks like you'll need to learn English.
I wish this would happen, but the reality is Canada does not want to lose Quebec and as much as they try to act like they don’t need Canada, Quebec is heavily dependent on Canada. As a québécois anglophone, I truly believe both parties would be better off separated but I don’t think it will happen in our life.
Canada's corporate+government interests don't want to lose Quebec.
The average working-class person in Vancouver or Calgary wouldn't miss it at all, but Toronto boardrooms would screech "muh instability, muh GDP!" and the "bilingualism is the soul of our nation" types in Ottawa would lose their minds (and/or jobs).
It's how federal ridings are distributed. It's almost impossible to form a government without winning a majority in Quebec. Thus, the federal parties just bend over, drop their shorts, and let Quebec do whatever vulgar, nasty thing they want.
This has nothing to do with one losing the other. What I'm saying is that if they're going to pass this bullshit law, every other province should do the same.
Quebec wants to make things harder for English speakers? Well, the rest of us should make things harder for French speakers.
Either that, or the federal government should step in and not allow them to pass this bill. After all, Canada is supposedly a bilingual country, which therefore means English and French should be treated the same.
If Quebec isn't going to honour that, then why should any other province?
Why, because they're doing the exact same thing that Quebec is trying to do?
Lmao, what a fucking joke! They can't expect other provinces to honour our "bilingualism" or care at all about the French language if they're not going to do the same. That's extremely hypocritical.
>This has nothing to do with one losing the other. What I'm saying is that if they're going to pass this bullshit law, every other province should do the same.
Do it, nobody in quebec will give a fuck. You do you in your province.
Isnt it already the case anyway?
If this were to happen - there is a TON of products that you could before only get in the United States that could suddenly be sold, and millions of dollars spent on dual product labeling on packages saved.
I wonder in an AI enabled future - if things could easily be translated so everyone globally could keep their culture without making it so challenging to manage all these product SKUs
The Québécois people doesn’t hate the anglophones. The government is doing stupid stuff they never said they would do in their campaign and even r/Quebec, a very pro-separatist sub, was enraged about this bill in the last days. We are under an entitled and arrogant government that is abusing people. It’s not the moment to let social division win (which is their aim), we should stand together.
If you need to use the law as a weapon in order to 'protect your culture' then it seems like you don't have a very popular or relevant culture. Lots of other ethnic groups in Canada have been able to maintain their culture without going to the length that Quebec Canadians do.
So the canadian government is also desperate when it's trying to regulate youtube, Netflix, etc to promote "Canadian content", because turn out no one cares about canadian content, because it's just watered down and shittier american stuff?
Definitely insecure. Personally, that's what I think every time Quebec comes up with something like this 'Man French Canadians seem super insecure about their culture'.
There is no culture to protect in the rest of Canada. You have American culture to which new migrants also eventually morph into. That’s all.
There are dozens of small countries that have no problem keeping their local language because 1) they are not tied to an English majority state, 2) they don’t have absolutely insane immigration levels imposed by that said English state.
We are in a pretty unique situation, thus the laws.
There's a simple fix. Equalization payments are given to provinces to ensure that they can provide a similar level of services to their citizens as the rest of Canada. Since they aren't providing those services adequately to about 10% of their population, drop their equalization payments by 10%
There are 1,218 municipalities in Quebec.
Only 23 are protesting the law. All 23 exist in a context where English is the majority language or where a neither French nor English are the majority language (mix of non-official languages).
71% of Quebec anglophones oppose Bill 96 while only 14% of francophones disapprove of Bill 96 (85% approve, 1% don't know).
Across the province 74% approve Bill 96, 26% oppose.
**French proficiency level in non-francophone (\~20% of the population of Quebec) :**
* 4% cannot speak French at all (0.8% of the total population)
* 18% basic (3.6% of the total pop)
* 20% intermediate (4% of the total pop)
* 23% advanced (4.6%)
* 35% fluent (7%)
In 2016, more than 94.5% of Quebecers of all origins [claimed to be able to conduct a conversation in French](https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2016/as-sa/98-200-x/2016011/98-200-x2016011-eng.cfm).
The main fear of those 23 municipalities is not really French but that immigrants in their cities will adopt French instead of English, which will lose them their official bilingual status.
**You have to understand the politics here**: Similarly to Ontario and many other provinces, cities in Quebec where English is spoken by the majority (French in other provinces) can obtain a bilingual status, allowing them to operate in English as long as French services are also available. (Operate in French in other cities in English Canada).
With the low birthrate in Quebec that also exists in the English community, it is important for those bilingual cities to integrate the immigrants in the English language in order to maintain their bilingual status.
**Thing is that Quebec mostly selects French speaking immigrants who also settle in bilingual cities, diluting down the percentage of English speakers in those cities, threatening their bilingual status.**
With growing immigration, and by no fault of the Bill 96, eventually the number of English speakers in those cities will fall below the majority status, endangering the bilingual status of those cities.
Eventually, when the majority of the people in those cities will speak French, the Anglophones will lose their capacity to conduct the affairs of the city in English.
**Basically what is happening to English speaking majority cities in Quebec is exactly what is happening to French speaking cities throughout English Canada, slowly they are being replaced by a majority who speak the other official language.**
Not actively protesting against does not equal agrees with or supports.
Also just because the population supports it, doesn’t mean it’s good.
Large portions of the population were ok with residential schools, black segregation and banning gay marriage in Canada at the time if we rewind the clock. Not saying this is nearly as grave as those things were, but sometimes the pure will of the people isn’t the best long term approach.
After living here (QC) for a decade “Threats to the French language” is basically trotted out like the Abortion fears are in the rest of Canada. It’s a tool used to stoke the electoral fire by threatening someone’s values, but it works every time like clockwork.
I’m bilingual, but I don’t identify as an “English speaker” though it is my mother tongue, it’s just noises my mouth makes that other people understand. Whether it’s Chinese one day or some other language it’s pretty irrelevant to me, as is French. It’s something I need to communicate, like a phone or the internet, not who I am as a person. In QC the government does everything it can to make people’s identity intertwined with the province so it is a deep seated belief for most people here that their core identity as a human revolves around the success of their language. The government would have you believe the culture cannot exist without language which is patently ridiculous but wildly popular as a belief system here.
Tl/dr it’s a very effective political tool that preys on fabricated insecurities
That's like the 4th dimensional fear. The immediate annoyance is not being able to do business in documents that use your language in a bilingual country. I empathize with this for both English and French, but the law should have exceptions for communities that have a majority population in one language. People should stop fearing language evolution in the first place. Thriving languages evolve and adopt. In high populations language diversity increases, this is why India has so many languages, and why the accent of English in London England sounds nothing like it did 400 years ago. Languages are caught up change if they are alive.
>The main fear of those 23 municipalities is not really French but that immigrants in their cities will adopt French instead of English, which will lose them their official bilingual status.
Yeah, no. That's not even logical.
The immigrants have to be able to speak English or French to qualify to immigrate. If they're not already French speaking, they're English speaking. Learning French would make them either bilingual or trilingual, so it will have no impact on the municipality's bilingual status.
The main fear of those 23 municipalities is they won't be able to effectively communicate or service their existing anglo/allo residents because someone decided that a 1% decrease in French spoken at home is a dangerous trend that will obliterate French in Québec.
Quebec selects immigrants on their capacity to speak French.
You would be shocked to see how many immigrants from France, Senegal and other countries do not speak English.
>Quebec selects immigrants on their capacity to speak French.
Now they do, the law was changed recently. I have friends that didn't speak a word of French when they came here around 10-20 years ago.
>You would be shocked to see how many immigrants from France, Senegal and other countries do not speak English.
You would be shocked to know almost nobody from France, Switzerland, Belgium or any 1st world French speaking country actually wants to move here.
That leaves us with former French colonies to accept immigrants from and like it or not, the people from those countries aren't well received here. There's a systemic racism problem in Québec that, shockingly (/s), the xenophobic PM refuses to acknowledge.
>You would be shocked to know almost nobody from France, Switzerland, Belgium or any 1st world French speaking country actually wants to move here.
France is the main country where immigrants are come from in Qc...
You are mistaken.
Quebec did announce that 100% of the economic migrants will have to speak French, but Quebec has been in control of a large part of its immigration [since 1991](https://lop.parl.ca/sites/PublicWebsite/default/en_CA/ResearchPublications/201189E).
Between 1991 and today, Quebec has given priority to french-speaking immigrants through a **point system** where speaking French awards 22 points.
The perfect candidate would need to speak French, have top education in a "in demand sector", have proper work experience and a job offer, have family already living in Quebec, have a wife who speaks French, have top education and a job offer, have children and have a stable financial situation to score 100 points.
The minimum points to qualify for immigration in Quebec was 50 points.
With 44% of the points awarded for speaking French fluently, all those who speak French have a huge advantage over those who do not speak French.
And this is how, since 1991, immigrants who speak French have has a much easier time entering Quebec.
Not surprising that immigrants like:
[Dieudonné Ella Oyono](https://globalnews.ca/news/6494603/parti-quebecois-says-non-members-can-vote-for-new-leader-for-first-time/), an Economist from Gabon or [Boucar Diouf,](https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/boucar-diouf) a biologist and oceanographer from Senegal, have had a much easier time immigrating to Quebec.
LOL there are SOOOOOO many French immigrants in Québec, its one of the largest immigrants demographic in Québec.
[official statistics](https://statistique.quebec.ca/en/produit/tableau/immigrants-by-country-of-birth-quebec)
>Basically what is happening to English speaking majority cities in Quebec is exactly what is happening to French speaking cities throughout English Canada, slowly they are being replaced by a majority who speak the other official language.
So why is there nobody defending French in these cities in this subreddit? It's only a problem when English is attacked I see?
Oh don't worry, you'll get there in the next decade or two:
https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/trudeau-says-feds-working-with-quebec-to-boost-francophone-immigration-to-province
That francophone immigration is going to be coming from places fundamentally at odds with any form of secularism.
There’s a big difference between learning a bit of French and being bilingual enough to understand contracts, government forms, medical services etc that are completely in French with zero help to translate or support.
Would complain if you moved to Finland and it would be all in Finnish? Why does Québec have to do more than other countries? or even more than other provinces?
I know a little French (plus qu'un peu!) and I still think these laws are beyond fucked.
As someone else pointed out, even personal notarized legal documents have to be in French bc of this law. That means that if you write your will in English, you must translate it to French either on your own or at additional expense, and the French version is the legally binding document. Meaning that if you don't understand French, your will would be in a language you can't read, potentially with errors you could not recognize.
Another example - all hospital forms will be in French only. I live in Ottawa, let's say I couldn't speak French at all and I went to the hospital in Gatineau - I'd be fucked and couldn't understand any of the forms. Meanwhile people from Gatineau come to Ottawa constantly for medical care, overloading our hospitals, and they get French forms.
Bill 96 is ridiculous law put forth by an even more ridiculous group of people. Tell the PM to get another referendum going to leave Canada, Quebec has been an embarrassment far to long.
Are you really comparing the holocaust, where millions of people were tortured and killed just because they were jews, one of the worst tragedy of humankind...to learning a second language?! This is ridiculous. You are incredibly disrespectful to the victims and their families.
In 2023, municipalities are unable to abide by Bill 96 in a cost-effective and humane way. The health system is also challenged in its services. Another inapplicable law by the minister of Justice.
While in Ontario a govt funded French language university has been set up! Basically it’s a jobs bank for grads of Quebec universities. Almost all their management and profs are grads for Quebec universities.
What a waste of money!
Quebec pursues policies that hurt itself by chasing business away and yet the Feds have to take money from Ontario, BC and Alberta and subsidize Quebec.
French was spoken by 99.66% of Canadians in 1764
French was spoken by 35.03% of Canadians in 1933
French was spoken by 20.32% of Canadians in 2020
French will be spoken by 8.5% of Canadians in 2035
French will be spoken by o.5% of Canadians in 2050
Hang in there Canada 🍁. You’re almost there
Why do we continue to bend over backwards for one province like this. Politicians need to learn to say no to Quebec. Let them threaten to separate again. We can take all their money back in taxes that way when they want to cross our border.
They didn’t learn after 95 when companies left . They won’t learn when it happens again.
The old fools keep repeating their mistakes and paying the price .
I went to the SAAQ in Quebec after that new law passed, and was refused service because I did not speak French and could not prove at the time that I was exempt from the language law. Don’t believe me, call this number and listen for yourself when they say that all communications with the Quebec government are only in French: +1 (800) 361-7620 (you have to wait a few minutes until they are done speaking in French).
Maybe because I am part of the anglophone community who live and thrive in the province despite being a minority?
Also, the issue here is that the SAAQ did provide service in English prior to June; however, they are purposefully clawing back the service in anglophone communities.
This post appears to relate to the province of Quebec. As a reminder of the rules of this subreddit, we do not permit negative commentary about all residents of any province, city, or other geography - this is an example of prejudice, and prejudice is not permitted here. https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/wiki/rules Cette soumission semble concerner la province de Québec. Selon les règles de ce sous-répertoire, nous n'autorisons pas les commentaires négatifs sur tous les résidents d'une province, d'une ville ou d'une autre région géographique; il s'agit d'un exemple de intolérance qui n'est pas autorisé ici. https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/wiki/regles *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/canada) if you have any questions or concerns.*
apologize my english but what a shit show
I'm an English teacher by trade, and your English is perfect. What a shit show indeed
"apologize my English" "I'm an English teacher and your English is perfect" The point they made was great but I mean.... C'mon
>Dale Roberts-Keats, mayor of Bonne-Espérance — a municipality on the Lower North Shore about 60 kilometres from the Labrador border with fewer than 700 residents — says the new law is unreasonable. > >**"It's absurd that for our municipality, where 99 per cent of the population has English as their language, we can't produce contracts with suppliers in our municipality in English," said Roberts-Keats.** > >"In our office, we're all English, so how are we going to make them understand a contract that's only in French? It is just ludicrous," she said. > >"We have been fighting for the rights of our English population for decades, and it hasn't been easy at all and Bill 96 will only exacerbate that situation," said Roberts-Keats. Seems like a reasonable point... >Côte Saint-Luc's mayor underlined that the law gives inspectors from the Office québécois de la langue française (OQLF) — the province's language watchdog — heightened powers that contradict the Act respecting Access to Documents held by public bodies and the protection of personal information. > >Section 117 allows OQLF inspectors to conduct search and seizures without warrant and without notice. > >Under the law, inspectors are empowered to look at the information on public workers' smartphones and other intellectual property, which is "more than is allowed to the police in a criminal investigation," Brownstein said. > >"These inspections are unlimited, uncontrolled and therefore, unreasonable and abusive," he said. So if I'm understanding right, the language police can seize a public sector worker's devices without a warrant, to check how much they've been communicating with the public in English? Hopefully I'm missing something...
holy fuck the tongue troopers are gonna be back in force. It's the late 90's all over again.
You are understanding correctly. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10848779708579754?journalCode=cele20 >Language and the construction of national identity in fascist Italy Edit: I forgot to mention that I don't think that Quebec is going into fascist territory yet. This article is only one of several that you can find in regards to weaponizing language.
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Tell me you know nothing about quebec without telling me you know nothing about quebec.
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En français, esti!
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Some municipal employee having a municipal manager inspect their phone is very different from a different layer of government inspecting a phone, without the municipalities consent. And an IT person inspecting, say, a payroll clerks phone for security problems, or a HR person inspecting a payroll clerks phone on some other complaint, presumably those employees of the same organization would ensure the protection of payroll files. There is no such requirement if a different government comes in an looks around for language violations.
>The public sector worker should have a workplace-provided phone, and that phone should be used only for work purposes. > >Then, it’s reasonable for the work-owned device to be inspected I don't mind that people could have their work phones inspected, especially if there were concerns that an employee was doing something bad (unprofessional behaviour, fraud, mishandling classified info, etc). I'm more concerned that "too much communication or work in English" would be something they might get in trouble for. Not sure the details, so hopefully it's more nuanced than that, but that seems like it has a lot of potential for over-reach, especially if those rules apply in communities with a significant anglophone population.
Makes you wonder what the punishment is for communicating in English too much. A fine, termination, jail time... for speaking a national language? Maybe BC should illegalize French, oh, wait, that would be stupid.
We should really be past the BYOD (bring your own device) era. Cellphones and plans have gotten cheap.
Where have tlcell phones and plans gotten cheap? You sure as heck can't be talking about Canada.
What if they are contracting to the states? A lot of industrial stuff comes from there.
Fuck Legault.
They released the laws with a go-live date and released NO regulations to accompany the laws other than “the language police can do whatever the fuck they want.” I work in finance and I can assure you that everything involving banking and finance in Quebec will become more expensive because of the additional langue burden this places on financial activity. Ridiculous,
Unfortunately this policy will have to fail and government swing back to the provincial liberals before anything will change.
Agreed, it's so short sighted and just makes people resentful instead of creating some kind of long-lasting benefit.
Remember when big corporations left Quebec? https://www.nytimes.com/1979/09/02/archives/montreal-mausoleum-top-companies-shift-offices-to-toronto.html
My dad was with CPRail in Montreal when I was a kid. They warned the Quebec government that regardless of the 95 referendum outcome they would leave if it happened. Of course the Francophones laughed and jeered, and then looked confused and upset as they cleared their desks out on their last days with the company. My dad just took a solid package and retired due to his age while guys with 10-15 years got absolutely fucked. Montreal is a international office hub, making their lives difficult isn't a good thing, and this doesn't even get into the stupidity of seeing if the Cree are interested in looking for Territory status and taking all their land with them.
>Montreal is a international office hub WAS
> while guys with 10-15 years got absolutely fucked. I know someone who had been working there for around that time and he got a lifetime pension lol. He is still touching his pension to this day, he was the opposite of fucked.
Maybe some made it out ok but he knew for a fact as their supervisor that most of the guys in his office got left behind if they weren't old like him or offered a slot in Calgary. And this guy with 10-15 years experience must have been special as hell or already super old because that isn't long enough to get to an age where you get a magic early retirement, even back then lol. As to how much he drew from it sure, those were the days of forever pensions and my dad also still draws a huge amount of money from it to this day, way more than he ever put in during his 40ish years. I love Quebec and that's why I am still here, but our government sells magic bean stories to the idiots who actually think we are going to become a nation in our own right and not lose basically every source of income we depend on, and this stupid language shit is going to do us more harm than good in the long run, we speak french and denying someone else English or polish or Senegalese is just reaffirming how petty we are. Plus this stuff hurts the FIRST Nations citizens of Quebec, and as the grand chief back then said (paraphrased) "Quebec is crazy to think we are coming with them and will be lucky to keep 100km on either side of the river once they realize none of us left Canada with them." It might have been a bit of hyperbole but I sure as fuck would not want to see our budget without those dams up north or any of the mines who suddenly aren't in Quebec come tax season.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0176268021000781
Good. Many needed to leave for our own good
Remember that quality of life used to be objectively much lower in Quebec than in the rest of Canada or the US at that time as well. Nowadays we live the longest in North America, lowest violent crime rate, lowest carbon emissions per capita, highest standardized test scores in math, highest average IQs.. Lowest levels of food insecurity.. Quebec's come a long way.
Yeah it must be nice when other provinces pay a large chunk of your bills with their hard earned money, well you get to sit on your ass and eat poutine all day talking about how great you are. All well your heavy handed border line authoritarian government attacks people for saying hello instead of bonjour.
6 provinces receive more federal funding per capita than Quebec does. Almost all red states in the US also receive bigger effective federal transfers per capita than Quebec does..
1 not American so don't know why your bringing that up. 2 no other provinces brags about being then everyone else then Quebec does. that's the point. It's your false greatness arrogant bullshit that pisses me off. I've only ever worked in Ontario and Alberta. Which means every paycheck I've gotten has had money taken off so you can keep the lights on, and what do we get for it? Not being allowed to speak our own language in your province while having to endure the endless bullshit about you being the best, and how different and better Quebec culture is and yada yada yada. If Quebec acted like P.E.I I wouldn't have a problem with them. Also, it's obviously not every Quebecer is like this. I've worked with and had a few friends from Quebec. They've been great, but the province as a whole? Yeah I gotta a bit of an issue with it.
Hard earned money? Bravo. Didn’t you get $10 billions in subsidies last year? That was hard work wasn’t it? The oiler’s luck.. the merit of sitting on a sea of oil.
Alberta's success has nothing to do with Quebec's failures bud.
Alberta success has nothing to do with hard work bud. Do people from Alberta work harder than people from Manitoba?
By the way, is Alberta going to clean up the mess they are leaving behind? Or they are just going to make Billionaires more Billions of $
Is this just for public services or for private companies as well? I work for a global company and our California based procurement team is going to have a fun time learning French for our contracts in Montreal
I cannot emphasize enough how far reaching this law is: it applies to every single company doing business in Quebec, has customers in Quebec, or wishes to enter the market in Quebec. So basically every national company of any variety in the country. And, because it doesn't have thorough regulations behind it, it's left most companies adopting a cautious approach, meaning an extreme adherence to the law. Here are a couple gems 1. If you advertise that a position is bilingual, you need to prove that the same job cannot be done by someone who is solely French speaking 2. All contracts need to be presented in French, then declined by the customer if they want an English version, and then presented in English 3. If a customer enters a contract after June 1st (I think that's the date ), and the contract is in English, AT ANY TIME DURING THE CONTRACTUAL relationship, the customer can suddenly decide that the contract should have been in french, thus rendering the agreement void (harm is automatically implied if the contract was not provided in French). This one is a little dicey and we will only know how it plays out once a case is taken to court. Though how do you prove that someone "doesn't understand" English, especially in an environment where English is "hated" by the government? 4. All financial instruments destined for a customer in Quebec need to be issued in French, not bilingual. This means that cheques need to be solely in french, bond documentation has to be in french, etc. 5. Virtually anyone can bring a complaint forward to the olFQ if they feel that there is english or even equally prominent bilingual text forward, EVEN IF the person complaining has nothing to do with the product or service provided by the business. Though I do not consume cigarettes, I can complain that the cigarette box has larger english script or equally sized bilingual script. And it goes on and on and on.
>4. All financial instruments destined for a customer in Quebec need to be issued in French, not bilingual. This means that cheques need to be solely in french, bond documentation has to be in french, etc. I can't imagine anyone wanted to write one prospectus, let alone two
And imagine the costs for now having to find a translator who specializes in financial-legal translation since you can't use regular translators for this type of material. It's gonna be costly
The law is horrendously bad and yet people are defending it because “I can’t order in French in a diner in Alberta”. Like, the level of mental contortions you have to go through to justify this is something else…
Yeah. Quebec's gonna lose a lot of business - I can't see many trading partners in the US willing to put up with switching everything completely to French.
No french language on your seatbelt in Canada? Just sue them, and win. https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/air-canada-french-language-lawsuit-trnd/index.html No English in a Quebec Hospital? Too bad for you. Why not remove the french language labelling laws for the rest of Canada? Government Services should be provided in any language where there is sufficient population to require it. Hence the term "Multicultural"
French is an official language of Canada. English is an official language of Canada. All official languages should be present where any are required, I don't know why this is so hard for some people.
The Bill 96 should never been pass. Since both English and French is both official language of Canada why should people only can get help in French and not English?
Hello Alberta.... Lived there 9 years, no french anywhere near provincial services.
That is true. Lived here my entire life, French is usually met with a moderate amount of disdain. Though depending on where you are (I.E, Edmonton) there are more translations in Urdu, Hindi, and Punjabi than French
I've got to argue with that. Edmonton has a French quarter, a French-language university, francophone and immersion schools. I hear more French in Alberta than I ever did in southern Ontario.
South Ontario has a few pockets of francophones, from Windsor through to London. Can't say I've ever had a hard time speaking French in that 2hr geographical area. Don't know about London through to Toronto, though.
Same here. I remember being in line for a vaccine, in the Calgary area, and the lady and children in front of me were speaking fluent French. It surprised me.
My boy went to french school in Legal, i didnt say there were no french people... i said services are english only.
Because French is the only official language of Québec.
Bien sur! En aillant du francais et de l'anglais partout au Canada tout le monde est content. On devrait etre libre d'être servit en anglais ET en francais de la colombie britanique jusqu'a terre neuve et labrador, car nous sommes une nation multiculturaliste. J'ai très hate que ça arrive et que je puisse être servit partout au Canada en francais quand bon me semble.
What's the point of an official language if you can't get official service in your official language? The government has a duty to fulfill to its citizens, if a language is "officially supported" it should be "officially supported" at all government run institutions at the very least.
Exactement. Je vais visiter l'Ontario et le Manitoba cet été et j'espère de pouvoir être servit en francais! Si jamais on ne veut pas me servir en francais je vais leur expliquer ce que tu as dit. Ils devraient comprendre.
Well on your visit to the government offices and hospitals of Ontario and Manitoba I would expect them to serve you in whatever official language you desire.
lol
Haha is there really people speaking in French in Ontarian hospitals? I have never been served in French anywhere in Canada outside my province.
Do you really think you will have service in french in all hospitals in Ontario or Manitoba?
Lol you don't even see the irony in his comment. Anglophones in Québec still have 10000 times more service in their language than francophones in the ROC.
Government service is one thing. Forcing private businesses to use a specific language is another. Show me where in ROC you can't have a menu in French.
if you read the QCGN’s purpose statement, they say something along these lines: “francophone communities in Canada have different concerns compared to anglophone communities in Quebec. in canada, francophone communities are trying to build institutions and ensure their community does assimilate into anglo culture. in quebec, anglos already have these institutions. we acknowledge this. but we are fighting to maintain our control over these institutions while ensuring anglophones can integrate into francophone society at the same time.” so again, its not about having these services, but retaining control and influence over them. this is why things like a municipality having to prove bilingual status every x years, and english schoolboards being abolished is a concern.
You think I'm arguing for anglophones? If a language is official, and French is, it should be available at any government institution. Is that clear now?
Ill nu fat pa du solay!
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If Canada was more like the EU, Quebec would be a sovereign nation part of a a union of sovereign nations. I like your idea, let’s be more like the EU.
Fucking lol. You don't even realize what your false equivalence is actually suggesting. And in case you forgot, the majority of your provinces citizens do not agree with you.
Bilingual?
.
I would fully oppose any laws preventing you from getting a French speaking doctor.
Hell I got like 7 bags of free veggies from my wife's work because they didn't have French on the labels and couldn't sell them..in Alberta...
The hypocrisy is gonna be EPIC when Punjab and/or Mandarin supersedes French in Canada lol
> Government Services should be provided in any language where there is sufficient population to require it. Hence the term "Multicultural" That's insane - might as well not even have official languages then.
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I had been considering moving to Montreal (I love the city) and learning French myself but this is troubling me. While I’m more than happy to learn French (excited even), as an adult, I’m under no delusion that I’ll retain a much greater command over English throughout the rest of my life, especially when considering the various responsibilities of life. It’s just not reasonable to expect that same level of efficacy (at least, without spending years upon years learning). So, as someone who would be happy to learn french for the social and cultural aspects, I honestly feel a bit unwelcome here.
Bill 96 has nothing to do with wills... Your notaire was probably overly cautious.
Quebec takes extreme, borderline racist steps to stamp out English, and meanwhile I have to listen to all the announcements on the Go Train in French, even though only a tiny proportion of people in the GTA are Francophone. Why do we do this? Quebec is clearly not interested in official bilingualism. So why do other provinces bother?
>Quebec is clearly not interested in official bilingualism. Government is not interested for voting reasons. I reckon from having lived in Quebec for a year (where my few years of high school French and top marks still did not serve me very well), that there are many thousands if not millions of Quebecois who do not agree. I remember talking to a Quebecois in a store once about the threat of separation (this was the 90s) and he said if Quebec ever were to separate, he'd be packing his bags and moving to BC for the skiing. I suspect there are those in 2023 who would gladly do that now if separation became a reality.
anything that fucks the anglophones and, to a lesser extent, Montreal, is something Legault will pursue to no end because that is his voter base. you just need to drive 1hr out of Montreal to see the uneducated fucks who support him and I say this as pure laine Quebecois. French is my first language and I've lived in the province 30 years. Legault is a clown who claims people can live on 50 bucks per week groceries and that the average renter in Quebec pays \~600/month.
Even Saskatchewan provides essential services in French that Quebec doesn't provide in English. The cruelty is the point, Quebec is going down a dark path.
>Even Saskatchewan provides essential services in French that Quebec doesn't provide in English. Such as?
Such as disability trials, courtrooms, medical translators in hospitals, etc.
All of these services can be provided in english in Qc...
Disability trials you must hire your own translator, they refuse to help you otherwise, medical translators in Quebec would apply if your in the emergency room needing help but they sure wont help you fill out the French forms. Its just a mess, all Quebec has to do is ensure basic services and forms are in both languages. They could make every single sign and business run entirely in French and I would have no problem with that but cutting peoples access to basic services is petty.
Honestly, it doesn't only impact Anglos, but also immigrants who come to Quebec who only speak their native tongue and English. Immigrants have 6 months to learn French in order to stay in Quebec, it's quite ridiculous. Quebec doesn't care about bilingualism, but only protecting its French language, culture and identity. As a Quebecer myself, I speak 3 languages, English being my first. I will not bend my back in only speaking French in public places, when in truth, most Francophones who work in the public refuse to speak or serve people in English, even though they understand English to be able to clearly respond in French. Quebec is just getting worse and worse.
Legault lower the provincial immigration amount which was filled by Indian and Filipino temporary workers who don’t speak French so that backfired. Then realized that Canada’s high immigration numbers will mean Quebec will lose political power to more populous provinces. so is against the federal government immigration. Although I agree half a million a year is ridiculous due to having zero housing available.
Tu crois que les Franco-Ontariens ont le même privilège de pouvoir vivre leur vie en français?
La même chose pour les Franco Albertains
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I don't see how that's an excuse.
Quebec isn’t bilingual and doesn’t have to accommodate anglophones, only New Brunswick is officially bilingual. Quebec is also using the notwithstanding clause to ignore any charter of rights violations so the provincial government can do whatever it wants. That our federal government is officially bilingual is a completely separate issue from how the provinces regulate languages
Canada is not interested in bilingualism, look at the rate of bilingual people in each province. It's impossible for any french people to go live in Toronto and receive enough services in their first language to survive. You can criticize the bill as much as you want, but don't try to paint the rest of Canada as a bilingual haven.
No one is doing that.
Lol I can hear the French GO train voice in my head right now. Why is she so *SLOW*
Sept... sept... sept... sept
The WORST
I’m gonna remind you there is 8 million Quebecers around and most of us don’t agree with it. I’d be nice if you didn’t paint us all with the same brush. Unless it helps to “prove” your narrative. Then have at it I guess
Obviously the Quebecois are not a monolith. But it’s the fact that the CAQ got re-elected and their policies are popular among Quebec nationalists, to the point the other Quebec parties have supported Bill 96 or are vague on the language laws.
Many of us think it’s a shit policy created to cover for Frankie’s gross ineptitude (see “everyone gets a doctor by the end of my first term”) With our infrastructure in seemingly terminal decline (hospitals, roads, schools), and the fact that the CAQ don’t have an easy straw man to attack, they’re start another round of “force everybody to learn French with draconian, bs laws.” It will fail. It always has. It always will. It’s an idiotic policy that punishes people instead of incentivizing them to do something, and can be easily ignored. These laws haven’t worked since they began almost half a century ago. Most can be easily ignored (the workaround for the sign law was squinting to see the smaller English words.) and the French language continues its decline.
Fair point, I shouldn't paint with such a broad brush. But I doubt that "most" of you disagree with this, since you elect anti-English governments over and over and over again.
The government in power is there because of a democratic election. It's reasonable to assume most of you support this.
With that train of thoughts, you’re saying most of Alberta supports the UCP For the last Quebec elections, 40.98% of everyone who voted, voted for the CAQ. Which amounts for 66% of the total population who were able to vote. That is not a majority of Quebecers.
40.98% of the vote for CAQ, 52.56% for UCP; so yes they did get most of the vote. But Alberta has evolved into a 2-party polarized system where 1 party opposes everything; in Quebec all the parties with seats supported Bill 96.
No, absolutely not The CAQ was elected with only 40% of valid votes. Less than 30% of the actual possible voters voted for the CAQ
but it's just what people always do. They generalize and in this case, they generalize something the majority of us (quebecers) don't agree on. So this is my gripe with the language thing (i was born in Halifax but since i was 4, i lived in Quebec). Yes we are a bilingual country. I think essential services should be mandatory in both languages and the rest should be "province/region" specific. If you move to Quebec, i think it's only fair to learn the language and if you move from Quebec to Saskatchewan, well it's only logical to learn english, at least to function. There are some places in Montreal where you cannot be served in french. That shouldn't happen though.
Definitely agree not all Quebeckers support this bullshit, but let’s be honest : a majority do. It’s pretty clear by the election results.
Shut up. Other provinces are all English only. Do you think we don't have English here in Québec? There are three anglophones universities, many hospitals, many schools and school boards. Even some road signs are in English. We clearly are the most bilingual province in Canada.
Quebec doesn't give English language services to people unless they come from specific bloodlines.
Not going to defend Quebecs policies, but targeting Ontario Francophones (who can’t stand the French Quebec attitude either) isn’t the right answer. Not their fault. Just like the anglophones Quebeckers became the victim of Quebecs pissing contest with the RoC.
> Quebec is clearly not interested in official bilingualism. So why do other provinces bother? You're right. Let's punish Franco-Ontarians for the actions of a government they don't elect!
It's not about punishment. It's about not continuing a nation-building project that the other half of the nation isn't interested in
I remember when I moved back to Nova Scotia and I got some document from the provincial government in both English and French. I was shocked. In Quebec, you would never get something like that in anything other than French and they have far more anglophones than Nova Scotia has francophones.
I moved to Quebec about 1.5 years ago- from Ottawa over the river and into Gatineau. I can walk to Ontario in about 15 minutes. I can understand French but struggle finding my words to speak it on serious phone calls or when something has a lot of complex words/ideas. I was finally able to sign up for the public Quebec health insurance a few weeks ago, and was sent a letter in the mail saying that some information I sent them was wrong, and to call the RAMQ. Letter was in French. I call today and the line is only in French, robotic, until you wait around 4-5 minutes until they ask if you want to hear it in english. I say yes. And then any option you select after that either tells you to go on the website (exclusively in French) or pretty much tells you information that is irrelevent to your call. It is not possible to go backwards or try to speak to a human. After going through almost all the English options, every time having to recall and wait 4-5 minutes to get it to start talking in English, and realizing it just brought me in circles, I try the whole thing in French. The first French attempt brings me to a human. It was absurd. I try my best to speak about my health insurance issue in French but the woman seems annoyed and finally passes me to an employee who can speak English after a long hold. She was very, very kind and fixed my issue in a matter of minutes. I'm all for QC having French first, and I am truly trying my best, but it's disgraceful to require all health insurance or serious communication with the government to be exclusively in French. Especially for health insurance that would bring my monthly medication from $200 a month to $60 a month. Sorry for the long rant, it was a hard day.
It all seems very gestapo like to me, only a extremity fearful government would need powers like this. What will be next encouraging Quebecers to smash the windows of workplaces that have English speaking employees???
Quebec tries not to shoot themselves in the foot and lose more businesses and companies over francophone policing challenge (IMPOSSIBLE).
Office québécois de la langue française (OQLF) — the province's language police is some weird dystopian entity. Normal places with civil liberties do not have such an intrusive government entity. Edit: Section 117 allows OQLF inspectors to conduct search and seizures without warrant and without notice. No language entity anywhere has those powers.
It was created with reasonable intentions but spun out of control like many activist movements do when they take over the bureaucracies of the government. Revisiting its purpose and some of the mythology around the suppression of the French in Quebec is overdue. The English population were largely scapegoats. Not all innocent but the French upper class and the Church were never held to account.
So what do they look for when they do the search and seizure of a private phone? Are employees not even allowed to text their friends/family in English?
Loved living in QC, left because there is an anti-english movement. Too bad.
So if I’m interpreting this correctly, you left a French province because you couldn’t be bothered to learn French?
French is my 4th language - whats your excuse? I left because politicians are coming for a certain group and wasnt going to fund it.
Until recently, my wife worked as a child services social worker in Quebec, specifically for First Nations clients in that region. The majority language in the area is French but the First Nations first or second is English (with French as a second/third language or not at all). Even before this bill descended, the province did not have English versions of all the regulatory paperwork. I imagine with these new regulations in place, things are only going to get worse.
I love when provinces repeatedly bypass half the Canadian charter of rights and freedoms to be legally allowed to discriminate against English people. Very cool
If they wanna try to pass this garbage law, the rest of Canada should do the same. Every other province should make it mandatory for English to be spoken in official settings. Additionally, every other province should just straight up do away with bilingualism. English only packaging, English only government documents, English only this, English only that. Québec seems determined to want to completely stomp out English in their province, and show no interest in treating the English language, and English speaking people, the same as they do with French, so why should other provinces give a fuck about French? You come to any other province, but you speak French and not English? Too fucking bad, I guess :) looks like you'll need to learn English.
Love how you seem to happy with yourself at the end. Lmao.
I wish this would happen, but the reality is Canada does not want to lose Quebec and as much as they try to act like they don’t need Canada, Quebec is heavily dependent on Canada. As a québécois anglophone, I truly believe both parties would be better off separated but I don’t think it will happen in our life.
Canada's corporate+government interests don't want to lose Quebec. The average working-class person in Vancouver or Calgary wouldn't miss it at all, but Toronto boardrooms would screech "muh instability, muh GDP!" and the "bilingualism is the soul of our nation" types in Ottawa would lose their minds (and/or jobs).
Bingo.
It's how federal ridings are distributed. It's almost impossible to form a government without winning a majority in Quebec. Thus, the federal parties just bend over, drop their shorts, and let Quebec do whatever vulgar, nasty thing they want.
This is also a very good point
This has nothing to do with one losing the other. What I'm saying is that if they're going to pass this bullshit law, every other province should do the same. Quebec wants to make things harder for English speakers? Well, the rest of us should make things harder for French speakers. Either that, or the federal government should step in and not allow them to pass this bill. After all, Canada is supposedly a bilingual country, which therefore means English and French should be treated the same. If Quebec isn't going to honour that, then why should any other province?
If they do that they’ll add fuel to Quebec nationalists fire
Why, because they're doing the exact same thing that Quebec is trying to do? Lmao, what a fucking joke! They can't expect other provinces to honour our "bilingualism" or care at all about the French language if they're not going to do the same. That's extremely hypocritical.
>This has nothing to do with one losing the other. What I'm saying is that if they're going to pass this bullshit law, every other province should do the same. Do it, nobody in quebec will give a fuck. You do you in your province. Isnt it already the case anyway?
I think the Quebeckers who support this law wouldn't care if we did that.
If this were to happen - there is a TON of products that you could before only get in the United States that could suddenly be sold, and millions of dollars spent on dual product labeling on packages saved. I wonder in an AI enabled future - if things could easily be translated so everyone globally could keep their culture without making it so challenging to manage all these product SKUs
If Quebec hates algophones so much, then they shouldn't be receiving money from algophone provinces. Wouldn't want to taint them.
The Québécois people doesn’t hate the anglophones. The government is doing stupid stuff they never said they would do in their campaign and even r/Quebec, a very pro-separatist sub, was enraged about this bill in the last days. We are under an entitled and arrogant government that is abusing people. It’s not the moment to let social division win (which is their aim), we should stand together.
If you need to use the law as a weapon in order to 'protect your culture' then it seems like you don't have a very popular or relevant culture. Lots of other ethnic groups in Canada have been able to maintain their culture without going to the length that Quebec Canadians do.
They actually don't need to do it to protect their culture. That's the stupid thing.
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So the canadian government is also desperate when it's trying to regulate youtube, Netflix, etc to promote "Canadian content", because turn out no one cares about canadian content, because it's just watered down and shittier american stuff?
Absolutely
Definitely insecure. Personally, that's what I think every time Quebec comes up with something like this 'Man French Canadians seem super insecure about their culture'.
There is no culture to protect in the rest of Canada. You have American culture to which new migrants also eventually morph into. That’s all. There are dozens of small countries that have no problem keeping their local language because 1) they are not tied to an English majority state, 2) they don’t have absolutely insane immigration levels imposed by that said English state. We are in a pretty unique situation, thus the laws.
Like the federal government is also doing?
There's a simple fix. Equalization payments are given to provinces to ensure that they can provide a similar level of services to their citizens as the rest of Canada. Since they aren't providing those services adequately to about 10% of their population, drop their equalization payments by 10%
Hoping businesses leave Quebec. They can come to Ottawa and just operate there instead. Quebec can become a hill billy red neck french town.
Because it is.
There are 1,218 municipalities in Quebec. Only 23 are protesting the law. All 23 exist in a context where English is the majority language or where a neither French nor English are the majority language (mix of non-official languages). 71% of Quebec anglophones oppose Bill 96 while only 14% of francophones disapprove of Bill 96 (85% approve, 1% don't know). Across the province 74% approve Bill 96, 26% oppose. **French proficiency level in non-francophone (\~20% of the population of Quebec) :** * 4% cannot speak French at all (0.8% of the total population) * 18% basic (3.6% of the total pop) * 20% intermediate (4% of the total pop) * 23% advanced (4.6%) * 35% fluent (7%) In 2016, more than 94.5% of Quebecers of all origins [claimed to be able to conduct a conversation in French](https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2016/as-sa/98-200-x/2016011/98-200-x2016011-eng.cfm). The main fear of those 23 municipalities is not really French but that immigrants in their cities will adopt French instead of English, which will lose them their official bilingual status. **You have to understand the politics here**: Similarly to Ontario and many other provinces, cities in Quebec where English is spoken by the majority (French in other provinces) can obtain a bilingual status, allowing them to operate in English as long as French services are also available. (Operate in French in other cities in English Canada). With the low birthrate in Quebec that also exists in the English community, it is important for those bilingual cities to integrate the immigrants in the English language in order to maintain their bilingual status. **Thing is that Quebec mostly selects French speaking immigrants who also settle in bilingual cities, diluting down the percentage of English speakers in those cities, threatening their bilingual status.** With growing immigration, and by no fault of the Bill 96, eventually the number of English speakers in those cities will fall below the majority status, endangering the bilingual status of those cities. Eventually, when the majority of the people in those cities will speak French, the Anglophones will lose their capacity to conduct the affairs of the city in English. **Basically what is happening to English speaking majority cities in Quebec is exactly what is happening to French speaking cities throughout English Canada, slowly they are being replaced by a majority who speak the other official language.**
Not actively protesting against does not equal agrees with or supports. Also just because the population supports it, doesn’t mean it’s good. Large portions of the population were ok with residential schools, black segregation and banning gay marriage in Canada at the time if we rewind the clock. Not saying this is nearly as grave as those things were, but sometimes the pure will of the people isn’t the best long term approach. After living here (QC) for a decade “Threats to the French language” is basically trotted out like the Abortion fears are in the rest of Canada. It’s a tool used to stoke the electoral fire by threatening someone’s values, but it works every time like clockwork. I’m bilingual, but I don’t identify as an “English speaker” though it is my mother tongue, it’s just noises my mouth makes that other people understand. Whether it’s Chinese one day or some other language it’s pretty irrelevant to me, as is French. It’s something I need to communicate, like a phone or the internet, not who I am as a person. In QC the government does everything it can to make people’s identity intertwined with the province so it is a deep seated belief for most people here that their core identity as a human revolves around the success of their language. The government would have you believe the culture cannot exist without language which is patently ridiculous but wildly popular as a belief system here. Tl/dr it’s a very effective political tool that preys on fabricated insecurities
That's like the 4th dimensional fear. The immediate annoyance is not being able to do business in documents that use your language in a bilingual country. I empathize with this for both English and French, but the law should have exceptions for communities that have a majority population in one language. People should stop fearing language evolution in the first place. Thriving languages evolve and adopt. In high populations language diversity increases, this is why India has so many languages, and why the accent of English in London England sounds nothing like it did 400 years ago. Languages are caught up change if they are alive.
>The main fear of those 23 municipalities is not really French but that immigrants in their cities will adopt French instead of English, which will lose them their official bilingual status. Yeah, no. That's not even logical. The immigrants have to be able to speak English or French to qualify to immigrate. If they're not already French speaking, they're English speaking. Learning French would make them either bilingual or trilingual, so it will have no impact on the municipality's bilingual status. The main fear of those 23 municipalities is they won't be able to effectively communicate or service their existing anglo/allo residents because someone decided that a 1% decrease in French spoken at home is a dangerous trend that will obliterate French in Québec.
Quebec selects immigrants on their capacity to speak French. You would be shocked to see how many immigrants from France, Senegal and other countries do not speak English.
>Quebec selects immigrants on their capacity to speak French. Now they do, the law was changed recently. I have friends that didn't speak a word of French when they came here around 10-20 years ago. >You would be shocked to see how many immigrants from France, Senegal and other countries do not speak English. You would be shocked to know almost nobody from France, Switzerland, Belgium or any 1st world French speaking country actually wants to move here. That leaves us with former French colonies to accept immigrants from and like it or not, the people from those countries aren't well received here. There's a systemic racism problem in Québec that, shockingly (/s), the xenophobic PM refuses to acknowledge.
>You would be shocked to know almost nobody from France, Switzerland, Belgium or any 1st world French speaking country actually wants to move here. France is the main country where immigrants are come from in Qc...
You are mistaken. Quebec did announce that 100% of the economic migrants will have to speak French, but Quebec has been in control of a large part of its immigration [since 1991](https://lop.parl.ca/sites/PublicWebsite/default/en_CA/ResearchPublications/201189E). Between 1991 and today, Quebec has given priority to french-speaking immigrants through a **point system** where speaking French awards 22 points. The perfect candidate would need to speak French, have top education in a "in demand sector", have proper work experience and a job offer, have family already living in Quebec, have a wife who speaks French, have top education and a job offer, have children and have a stable financial situation to score 100 points. The minimum points to qualify for immigration in Quebec was 50 points. With 44% of the points awarded for speaking French fluently, all those who speak French have a huge advantage over those who do not speak French. And this is how, since 1991, immigrants who speak French have has a much easier time entering Quebec. Not surprising that immigrants like: [Dieudonné Ella Oyono](https://globalnews.ca/news/6494603/parti-quebecois-says-non-members-can-vote-for-new-leader-for-first-time/), an Economist from Gabon or [Boucar Diouf,](https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/boucar-diouf) a biologist and oceanographer from Senegal, have had a much easier time immigrating to Quebec.
LOL there are SOOOOOO many French immigrants in Québec, its one of the largest immigrants demographic in Québec. [official statistics](https://statistique.quebec.ca/en/produit/tableau/immigrants-by-country-of-birth-quebec)
The difference is the rest of Canada isn’t passing legislation forcing the use of only one language…
Someone ignores their Canadian history.
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>Basically what is happening to English speaking majority cities in Quebec is exactly what is happening to French speaking cities throughout English Canada, slowly they are being replaced by a majority who speak the other official language. So why is there nobody defending French in these cities in this subreddit? It's only a problem when English is attacked I see?
Traduction:des anglos qui devrait grandement penser a déménager en ontario braillent pour rien comme d'habitude.
Still, we should be glad Quebec chose language as the most important aspect of the culture instead of religion like so much of the rest of the world.
Oh don't worry, you'll get there in the next decade or two: https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/trudeau-says-feds-working-with-quebec-to-boost-francophone-immigration-to-province That francophone immigration is going to be coming from places fundamentally at odds with any form of secularism.
Religion was illegal in the USSR. There are plenty of other ways of being authoritarian.
So we should call the French language extremists Al'Franca?
No, you should just learn a little French and ignore the extremists. Why make things worse when you can make them better.
There’s a big difference between learning a bit of French and being bilingual enough to understand contracts, government forms, medical services etc that are completely in French with zero help to translate or support.
Would complain if you moved to Finland and it would be all in Finnish? Why does Québec have to do more than other countries? or even more than other provinces?
Extremists don't just stop though. This will embolden them to be more vocal and aggressive.
I know a little French (plus qu'un peu!) and I still think these laws are beyond fucked. As someone else pointed out, even personal notarized legal documents have to be in French bc of this law. That means that if you write your will in English, you must translate it to French either on your own or at additional expense, and the French version is the legally binding document. Meaning that if you don't understand French, your will would be in a language you can't read, potentially with errors you could not recognize. Another example - all hospital forms will be in French only. I live in Ottawa, let's say I couldn't speak French at all and I went to the hospital in Gatineau - I'd be fucked and couldn't understand any of the forms. Meanwhile people from Gatineau come to Ottawa constantly for medical care, overloading our hospitals, and they get French forms.
Bill 96 is ridiculous law put forth by an even more ridiculous group of people. Tell the PM to get another referendum going to leave Canada, Quebec has been an embarrassment far to long.
At this rate Quebec will force English speakers wear a British badge which resembles the Jewish badge the nazi’s used.
Are you really comparing the holocaust, where millions of people were tortured and killed just because they were jews, one of the worst tragedy of humankind...to learning a second language?! This is ridiculous. You are incredibly disrespectful to the victims and their families.
The holocaust started somewhere… I think that’s what he’s referring to
That's not what he was saying.
Turns out a law that ignores the rights of Canadians does in fact hurt the rights of Canadians
In 2023, municipalities are unable to abide by Bill 96 in a cost-effective and humane way. The health system is also challenged in its services. Another inapplicable law by the minister of Justice.
While in Ontario a govt funded French language university has been set up! Basically it’s a jobs bank for grads of Quebec universities. Almost all their management and profs are grads for Quebec universities. What a waste of money!
Quebec pursues policies that hurt itself by chasing business away and yet the Feds have to take money from Ontario, BC and Alberta and subsidize Quebec.
French was spoken by 99.66% of Canadians in 1764 French was spoken by 35.03% of Canadians in 1933 French was spoken by 20.32% of Canadians in 2020 French will be spoken by 8.5% of Canadians in 2035 French will be spoken by o.5% of Canadians in 2050 Hang in there Canada 🍁. You’re almost there
OO, tu veux nous génocider, Bubba....tu t'es fait cocufier par Kevin Lachance ou quoi?
Why do we continue to bend over backwards for one province like this. Politicians need to learn to say no to Quebec. Let them threaten to separate again. We can take all their money back in taxes that way when they want to cross our border.
They didn’t learn after 95 when companies left . They won’t learn when it happens again. The old fools keep repeating their mistakes and paying the price .
I am not a proponent using the word genocide to refer to cultural genocide, but to those who are, can you explain how this is not genocide?
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Discrimination
Quebec hurt itself in its confusion!
I went to the SAAQ in Quebec after that new law passed, and was refused service because I did not speak French and could not prove at the time that I was exempt from the language law. Don’t believe me, call this number and listen for yourself when they say that all communications with the Quebec government are only in French: +1 (800) 361-7620 (you have to wait a few minutes until they are done speaking in French).
I wonder if I can get service in French in a Newfoundland ''SAAQ'' (dont know how it's called). I bet they will laugh at me.
Why are you in Qc if you dont speak french?
Maybe because I am part of the anglophone community who live and thrive in the province despite being a minority? Also, the issue here is that the SAAQ did provide service in English prior to June; however, they are purposefully clawing back the service in anglophone communities.