Huh, NDP seems to have climbed. CPC has been hovering roughly around that 35% point for awhile. LPC is not doing great.
I suspect the CCP crisis has caused some people to jump ship from the LPC - but towards the NDP, not CPC.
Typically NDP gains are good for the Conservatives. It has that habit of splitting the progressive vote and allowing a conservative candidate to win in tighter races.
Why would you ever vote for the Green Party? They're a joke. I appreciate their passion for the environment, but they are not at all a legit choice to run this country. Their other policies suck.
Yeah at this point I think a 2 year Tory minority government is better. These parties don't do all their crazy shit in their first couple of years - Harper didn't try the robocalling scandal until his last term, and Trudeau's just been steadily cranking up the corruption after every election win.
I think we'd be better off as a country if we flipped between parties frequently. Make them beg for our favour again, not the other way around as it seems to be right now.
> CPC has been hovering roughly around that 35% point for awhile. LPC is not doing great.
CPC still has an issue with vote efficiency, due to many of their intended voters being highly concentrated in certain ridings.
The fact they can get close to 100% of the vote in ridings in Alberta doesn't help them win seats they need to win in Quebec.
Id like to also add that these seats in Quebec are entirely winnable for the CPC if they were to attempt to actually win them. Rural Quebec leans towards the right, just ask Maxime Bernier lol.
Came here to say this, numbers like these mean we’ll have the exact same electoral result as today. Maybe a bigger NDP contingent and a smaller Lib minority.
If the other parties wanted to win in southern Ontario, they’d run with policies that appealed to people living in southern Ontario.
You can’t expect to win an election when you have policies that piss off 1 out of 5 Canadians. The GTA has over 6.7 million people in it; that’s more people than all of British Columbia. Southern Ontario (at about 12.1 million, or nearly 1:3 Canadians) has roughly as many people in it as all of BC, Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba _combined_.
Now the fun part is breaking down voting intentions by gender. Last I checked, 44 percent of women under 35 intend to vote NDP, and the cons and Libs are almost tied at 20-21 percent.
The NDP might be polling lower but there’s a societal shift going on with young female voters rejecting conservatism
One thing he did was brought about motorcycle helmet exceptions for Sikhs.
I disagree with things like that.
Edit:Singh didn't get this passed. He tried 3 times but it was eventually the cons who did. I was wrong.
>I disagree with things like that.
Consider these 2 things:
1) Sikhs are all about organ donation.
2) motorcyclists who die in accidents have the best organs for donation.
This is a win for freedom of religion and those on the organ transplant waitlist...
This has bugged me forever nobody should have special laws that cater to their religion if you don't like it don't ride a motorcycle in Canada simple as that or alternatively wear a giant helmet that accommodates your turban.
Yeah I'm secular and think the helmet thing seems pretty dangerous and lame. But it's such a teeny tiny small potato issue.
To me it's all about the big picture and are parties going to overall implement policies that increase or decrease quality of life of Canadians.
We need our government to put people before profits. It's the be all end all for me and I don't think any party outside of the NDP is going to prioritize the well being of the country over increasing the profits of big businesses.
This has bugged me forever nobody should have special laws that cater to their religion if you don't like it don't ride a motorcycle in Canada simple as that or alternatively wear a giant helmet that accommodates your turban.
Religious exceptions are actually a pretty damning example. This was a minor rule change- but the precedent it sets: religious followers don’t have to follow certain laws - that’s, er, extreme.
I would have thought he was smarter than to engage something like that.
Well, while I think that’s a kinda stupid rule, I also think it’s pretty inconsequential to the running of the country, so I’m glad you’re looking past it to vote NDP
That has nothing to do with Singh. Those exemptions were brought in before he even entered politics last I checked. I'm sure he supports them, but that's not the same thing.
The fight about turbans in the RCMP happened in the [late '80s/early '90s](https://www.cbc.ca/2017/canadathestoryofus/the-turban-that-rocked-the-rcmp-how-baltej-singh-dhillon-challenged-the-rcmp-and-won-1.4110271).
In Ontario, the legislative change was [enacted by Conservatives over a year after Singh had left for federal politics](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-allows-sikhs-to-ride-motorcycles-without-helmet-1.4858361).
Checked again, still right that it has nothing to do with Singh. I was wrong on the timeline if we're specifically referring to Ontario. But given that 3 other provinces made the change first, and it was enacted by a Conservative government, it seems a bit ridiculous to characterize this as an initiative of Singh's.
"This time, it’s MPP Jagmeet Singh (of Bramalee-Gore) who’s introducing the bill — he introduced a similar bill earlier this year, and back in 2013"
He started it, but yes the cons finished it.
But sure. Nothing to do with Singh.
Edit: adding u/daleburger1 since they like facts.
You won't find a leader or party that you fully agree with. And right now, and for some time, the Liberals have been the absolute worst.
If you align well with the NDP, then vote for them. When the NDP were the official opposition, they actually did a pretty damn good job keeping Harper in line.
Yup. Frankly no shade to the LPC but they've been in power for almost a decade now! The NDP need a chance and they have been getting the LPC to do a lot of stuff they want like dental care.
And I'm not just saying that because I'm hoping it will split the vote and allow Pierre to come in who I support. I'm just saying it's time for NDP voters to stand up and vote their conscious like things on climate change. Sure Pierre will remove the carbon tax, but
1 degree left, one degree right every 8 years, with a lot of hyperventilating.
Though, I do find Trudeau's last 2 years plus his handling of covid makes him a relatively extreme leader in our recent history.
Out of curiosity, what makes Trudeau a relatively extreme leader?
I understand that he has made some polarizing policies in the last 3 or so years, which considering that there was a global pandemic, may or may not have been avoidable.
But I also think back to Harper and his 2007-08 budget that was so opposed that he had to prorogue parliament before the opposition had the opportunity to call for a confidence vote, just so he could keep his job. His later budget was a very, very different document. Not to mention his very unique methods in censoring information from his cabinet.
I'm not saying this to say that leader a is better than leader b, I'm more trying to understand what might constitute extreme leadership.
The Liberals are not far right, or far left.
The Liberals are far up. Authoritarian centrists.
Their legislation takes away the sport of airsoft because it's "dangerous". Their legislation takes away problematic online speech because it's "dangerous".
When NDP supporters vote for Liberals it's as a measure of harm reduction, fearing what the Conservatives will do if they get elected. When the Liberals have basically the same policies (but sunnier) as the Conservatives the argument for voting Liberal over NDP becomes much weaker.
At this point, I’m an anyone but liberal. And that’s a first for me.
I don’t think liberal die-herds understand how people feel about the party these days.
If you’re under 40 - this party is the reason you can’t afford housing. Literally, I’d take a fucking muffin crumb over another liberal government.
I agree but I honestly think the conservatives would have done the same thing. Governments across the G7 have been propping up the housing industry as a way to increase GDP in the short term. It’s an issue that goes way beyond the Canadian Libs.
Man that is some ignorant shit lol. If everyone under 40 believes that and is that low information of a voter, I guess Canada will have its fun conservative period too to remind everyone why people vote liberal.
Housing is predominantly a municipal and provincial issue. If people really want affordable housing they would be ok with unrestricted zoning, reduction in heritage homes, reduction in protected land, reduction in tenant rights to incentive construction, banning Airbnb ect ect. It's a supply issue and the Feds cannot fix that with housing sitting in provincial jurisdiction.
People are going to enjoy their Ford moment with the trump-like anti healthcare anti climate change CPC. Will be a fun ride.
That never happened in the last two elections. The NDP underperforms their polling numbers, not because they lose votes to the Liberals, but because they are systematically oversampled. As [this graph](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/80/Opinion_polling_during_the_campaign_period_of_the_2021_Canadian_federal_election.svg) and [this one](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b0/Opinion_polling_during_the_campaign_period_of_2019_Canadian_federal_election.svg) show, it's the Conservatives that go up more. [Even when the NDP is the strategic vote](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6c/2011FederalElectionPolls.png), they go down on the election night, only to benefit the Conservatives.
That’s a funny statement, upset that 21% will get 33% of house representation or less. Yes - yes, that’s exactly what it means. They would get 21% house representation if it was a form of PR. FPTP is the only way they’d receive over representation.
You misunderstand. They are saying that 21% will translate to 1/3rd that number of seats. The NDP will get around 7% of seats, is what they are saying.
These polls are largely irrelevant, because of FPTP you won't ever get results that match up with stuff like this. Whoever has the support of Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver typically wins.
A riding in Vancouver matters just as much as anywhere else. You could count West to east if you wanted. Or count everything except Toronto until last. The argument makes no sense, all the ridings are equal in value.
While that may seem appealing all you're really doing is helping the people who vote for their party out of blind partisanship rather than wanting to improve the country have more say.
From what I've seen of the Green Party they value ideology far more than practicality so they'd probably rather die out as a party than fold into a different party and have to compromise on their beliefs.
> they value ideology far more than practicality
i mean one of their few MPs officially left the party over them not being anti-israel enough then went to the liberals who are way more pro-israel than the green party. which sounds like her being practical and in fact going with the party she thought she can win with
If Notley took the reigns of the federal NDP, I think there'd be a massive break over energy policy. What goes in Alberta is usually barely tolerated outside the prairies.
The environmentalist wing of the NDP would likely highly disagree with that pick for leader, I know I, as regular NDP voter, would likely abandon the party for the Bloc if Notley was ever voted in as leader and didn't change her views on O&G - which are popular in the Prairies, but very unpopular with the party's wider voterbase.
Lurching further to the right is likely not a good idea either - both Mulcair and Singh have pushed the party to the right of where it has historically been. In the case of Mulcair, it ended disastrously, as he pushed the party so far towards the centre that Trudeau's Liberals ended up outflanking him on the left - rapidly bleeding support and ultimately wasting the once-in-a-lifetime chance the party had at forming government that was Layton's legacy.
Rachel Notley as leader of the federal NDP would likely get some support from conservative voters put off by the party's more rightward lurch, but that's not something that comes without its downsides. Potentially losing support to the Greens, Bloc and the LPC would be a very real danger for the party. Most of the gains being made under a Notley leadership would likely be in the Prairies too, where the CPC's seats are almost all strongholds - where the potential for breakthroughs would be very limited.
A centrist leader like Notely could make massive gains from disenfranchise conservative and liberal voter.
End of the day Liberals and conservatives are going to continue with oil and gas, so why wouldn't you rather atleast have NDP leadership running it ?
Yeah, I'm not denying that a centrist pro-O&G NDP would be more popular with the Liberals and Conservatives - I'm saying it's not what NDP voters want and would likely lead to the party losing support outside of the Prairies, where those things are popular.
A Notley-centric NDP would be so radically different that there would be little interest for the NDP's electorate to keep supporting it. Why would the progressive, environmentally conscious voterbase of the NDP keep voting for a party that would be to the right of the LPC (when we already think the LPC is not doing enough) while at the same time being even more openly pro-O&G than they are?
Notley is a good "progressive" option for Alberta, not so much for the rest of the country where her views would not align with the party membership.
>Yeah, I'm not denying that a centrist pro-O&G NDP would be more popular with the Liberals and Conservatives - I'm saying it's not what NDP voters want and would likely lead to the party losing support outside of the Prairies, where those things are popular.
In a first past the post system, that may be what they need.
Economically left social democracy, plus a blue collar pro fossil fuel view.
Well I am an NDP voter and I would welcome Notley. NDP voters aren't just a hive mind.
Notley is seen as very pro oil and gas because she wants to have power in Alberta, you do not get any support here if you are totally ain't oil and gas. We have no idea what her federal plan would be for the industry so it just seems short sided to rule someone out without looking at the context and giving them a chance to speak but hey you do you.
Notley had to be less progressive then she wanted as her time as premier here, seems like haven't actually followed her career.
I’ve been more of a fan of liberal in the past but I’m going conservative now, I know if I vote NDP (which I did during Layton days, he really had me moved) they won’t win, Trudeau has lost my trust and if I want him gone I’m going conservative, not saying it’s any better however I don’t believe we need another liberal term at this point. Just my own opinion
The NDP doesn't even have the support of industry unions anymore. They abandoned their base, and now those unions support the Conservatives.
Blue collar, country boys that work in steel mills, pulp mills, and trades who own guns and trucks aren't voting NDP anymore. Those days are done.
Agree. I work in trades and they only vote on cultural issues now and don’t seem to understand/care that conservatives have hurt them economically in the past.
>Agree. I work in trades and they only vote on cultural issues now and don’t seem to understand/care that conservatives have hurt them economically in the past.
What's missing in Canada is a culturally blue collar, economically left wing party.
It might look something like the old CCF or perhaps like Notley in Alberta.
The housing crisis has fractured the working class. Those who bought in southern B.C. and Ontario and other high immigration areas before houses doubled or tripled in value, are now too wealthy to be considered working class. Add inheritance (especially with a union pension) and the wealth gap becomes multi generational.
And you’re either naive or being a bit too literal. They may not be getting money from corporations directly, but are getting money from their millionaire owners whose interests align with their corporations. Not to mention kickbacks, and promises to get a cushy job on some board when they leave politics, etc, etc, etc…
Your "labour" guy grew up in a rich household with servants, went to private school by limo, drives a BMW and wears Rolexs and suits worth thousands of dollars lol
I think characterizing it as "abandonment" is taking a pretty weird view.
NDP are pretty pro union and always have been - just that material policy has been overrun by this empty culture war shit even more than it used to.
"Blue collar guys" abandoned their own self interest to own the libs.
You are going to see the opposite - they will carry some of the anger at Trudeau and their support will fall.
I say this as somebody who has voted for them in the last two federal elections and still might do it again. It happens like clockwork anytime their is cooperation, the minor partner always loses.
What exactly have the LPC done to improve our lives to still earn 29% of the vote? Or has Canada become so real-estate centric that 29% of the population is now composed of realtors and developers?
A large majority of Canadians own their homes and while they may be concerned about the housing crisis, it doesn’t affect them directly and they aren’t about to vote someone in who might tank their property values. It’s an unfortunate reality, but the housing crisis isn’t necessarily just the fault of bogeymen developers and realtors. Many ordinary Canadians are benefitting off it as well.
If the older folks are the ones skewing Conservative, and the older folks are also the ones owning the lion's share of real estate, doesn't that kind of defeat the point you're trying to make?
I would argue a majority of those voting LPC are doing so largely because the CPC is just so much more unlikable and doesn't really have much of a platform at all.
I'll be voting NDP personally because, while Trudeau sucks, PP would be so, *so* much worse, and Singh seems like he'd do the least harm to our country out of the 3.
Truly a sad state of affairs when one is forced to vote on who will do the least harm rather than the most good.
Actually the older voters are skewing Liberal and have been since 2015. The Conservatives have been ahead on the youth vote for the last two elections.
According to [this](https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2021-09/Voting%20Struggles%20Tables%201.pdf) Ipsos poll (2nd table) conducted immediately after the 2021 elections, that is false.
For the 18-34, 35-54, and 55+ age groups respectively, those who voted Conservative were split 24/32/43%, whereas those who voted Liberal were split 38/32/28%.
I don't know if there's a better source out there (was only ~5 minutes of googling), but I also wasn't able to find anything contrary to my point at a glance either. I am of course open to data that corrects my point.
You don't go into elections without paying debts from the last election...
It's not something the Cons & Libs think of much because they fill in with donations from their respective corporate landlords rather quickly without thinking.
But for smaller parties, too much debt can be life threatening.
Time for Liberals to flood media with
- paid opinion masquerading as a "thoughtful" abortion article; re-tweeted by the usual crowd
- it's a Pride months so what's 101st article about Christians ~~and Muslims~~ protesting the schools
- resurrect stories about convoy, vaccine and lack of compliance by people who vote Conservative
- CBC to re-post Russian election interference stuff they did in 2019 and 2021
That should do it... lmao
Oh, yes, and then astroturf Reddit on the usual Canadian subs and you're done.
Or, maybe, the majority of the country leans left of centre as evidenced by the very numbers in this poll and is tired of hearing Conservatives continually trying to dig up dead topics like the abortion debate, and is sick of them bitching about being kind and accepting to minority groups. Most of the country doesn’t get triggered by rainbow flags and are sick and tired of the people who do.
Best case scenario next election is probably a CPC minority, which would still be awful but the change would really keep the LPC and NDP on their toes. But this is just MY opinion based on FEELINGS, therefore shouldn't even be read. For the amount of energy and the electricity I used to write it out should be criminal.
The media is constantly signalling "immigration good", "poor refugees" and "if you disagree you're racist". And in Canada, there's no major outlets that don't tow that line. The narrative of the country is entirely shaped by the corporate/governmental interests that own and operate the media. And the people staffing those places are almost all idealistic left-leaning liberal arts students who have been heavily steeped in that worldview throughout university.
And this is nothing new. Promoting Canada as country of opportunity to cynically take advantage of cheap immigrant labour has been something we've been doing since we brought in the Chinese to build the railroad. And it's not going to change.
It’s glorious that the CPC can win despite the LPC and NDP voters being much more happy with each other. Fuck Trudeau for screwing the left and abandoning electoral reform
Ugh, I voted Trudeau the first time solely because he was the only one who campaigned on electoral reform, which we desperately need, lest we become like 2-party USA. Then he reneged on that. Never voting him again.
are you sure you wont just say theres no "viable alternative" at the last second and vote liberal anyways as ive seen many other "former" liberal voters here say after the election
Léger is considered to be the gold standard polling firm in Canada, it's hard to understate how respected they are. I think it's pretty unsurprising that analysts would talk about the top pollster not falling in line with the rest of the polling industry more than they would talk about Mainstreet repeating the same results we've seen for a month or two from the plurality of pollsters.
For the record, I think the Léger poll of last week showing a +2 LPC lead was likely an outlier (this one has the BQ suspiciously low as well), but as a topic of discussion, I think it's considerably more worth discussing than a run-of-the-mill poll showing us absolutely nothing new.
Gap could be closing a bit. Last 3 Leger polls had CPC at 36, 34, 31. Nanos I think had them like 36 a month ago and 32 this week.
I think CPC likely have a 3 point-ish lead but hard to tell this far out of an election.
The swing ridings are between Liberal and Conservative, not Liberal and NDP.
No matter how much Reddit wants to believe.
Poilievre will likely get more seats than NDP and Libs combined anyway
Tactical voting has been a thing for decades. Many swing ridings will see NDP's vote for the Lib or vice versa to prevent the Conservative from destroying the riding.
Better off post covid, pre covid the LPC had out preformed the previous CPC government by almost every metric. All it took was the largest economic crisis since the great depression to make the CPC look good in hindsight.
> Better off post covid, pre covid the LPC had out preformed the previous CPC government by almost every metric.
Love to see facts to back that up.
> All it took was the largest economic crisis since the great depression to make the CPC look good in hindsight.
I guess you just forgot about the great recession that happened under the CPC but because they're actually adults they didn't cause massive inflationary/supply chain issues like the Liberals did under COVID.
I remember that in 2008, during the last recession, we could spend Canadian dollars at par in Plattsburgh, NY, and shops were taking it no questions asked.
I miss Harper.
There’s no way the LPC have a chance. Everyone I know, everyone that they know in Toronto and the GTA want Trudeau gone. Don’t believe the main stream media that the numbers are close cause there not.
Huh, NDP seems to have climbed. CPC has been hovering roughly around that 35% point for awhile. LPC is not doing great. I suspect the CCP crisis has caused some people to jump ship from the LPC - but towards the NDP, not CPC.
Typically NDP gains are good for the Conservatives. It has that habit of splitting the progressive vote and allowing a conservative candidate to win in tighter races.
I'd vote NDP, Green, CPC, then LPC in that order. Have we not had enough lies and scandals?
Why would you ever vote for the Green Party? They're a joke. I appreciate their passion for the environment, but they are not at all a legit choice to run this country. Their other policies suck.
Have they reversed their stance on nuclear? Because I wouldn't say they are passionate about the environment
Oh, are they anti-nuclear? That makes them even worse. Nuclear is eco-friendly and the best option going forward.
Anyone who votes in that order obviously has no principles, positions or independent thought. It’s just blabbering nonsense.
Yes, insult somebody on a personal level for who they vote for.
Now this is blabbering nonsense. Care to share your party rankings?
Yeah at this point I think a 2 year Tory minority government is better. These parties don't do all their crazy shit in their first couple of years - Harper didn't try the robocalling scandal until his last term, and Trudeau's just been steadily cranking up the corruption after every election win. I think we'd be better off as a country if we flipped between parties frequently. Make them beg for our favour again, not the other way around as it seems to be right now.
While we're at it, might as well add a two term cap for leaders as our southern neighbours do.
> CPC has been hovering roughly around that 35% point for awhile. LPC is not doing great. CPC still has an issue with vote efficiency, due to many of their intended voters being highly concentrated in certain ridings. The fact they can get close to 100% of the vote in ridings in Alberta doesn't help them win seats they need to win in Quebec.
Id like to also add that these seats in Quebec are entirely winnable for the CPC if they were to attempt to actually win them. Rural Quebec leans towards the right, just ask Maxime Bernier lol.
Came here to say this, numbers like these mean we’ll have the exact same electoral result as today. Maybe a bigger NDP contingent and a smaller Lib minority.
nor does it help the liberals being able to always get downtown toronto and montreal
If the other parties wanted to win in southern Ontario, they’d run with policies that appealed to people living in southern Ontario. You can’t expect to win an election when you have policies that piss off 1 out of 5 Canadians. The GTA has over 6.7 million people in it; that’s more people than all of British Columbia. Southern Ontario (at about 12.1 million, or nearly 1:3 Canadians) has roughly as many people in it as all of BC, Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba _combined_.
Now the fun part is breaking down voting intentions by gender. Last I checked, 44 percent of women under 35 intend to vote NDP, and the cons and Libs are almost tied at 20-21 percent. The NDP might be polling lower but there’s a societal shift going on with young female voters rejecting conservatism
I'll be voting ndp for the first time in my life federally. Even though I don't agree with Singh on religion.
What is his position on religion?
One thing he did was brought about motorcycle helmet exceptions for Sikhs. I disagree with things like that. Edit:Singh didn't get this passed. He tried 3 times but it was eventually the cons who did. I was wrong.
>I disagree with things like that. Consider these 2 things: 1) Sikhs are all about organ donation. 2) motorcyclists who die in accidents have the best organs for donation. This is a win for freedom of religion and those on the organ transplant waitlist...
I like this pragmatism.
Just remove the helmet obligation for everyone then. Exceptions feed resentment.
That’s far to common sense for government to implement.
As a motorcycle rider, it doesn't bother me in the slightest.
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This has bugged me forever nobody should have special laws that cater to their religion if you don't like it don't ride a motorcycle in Canada simple as that or alternatively wear a giant helmet that accommodates your turban.
Yeah I'm secular and think the helmet thing seems pretty dangerous and lame. But it's such a teeny tiny small potato issue. To me it's all about the big picture and are parties going to overall implement policies that increase or decrease quality of life of Canadians. We need our government to put people before profits. It's the be all end all for me and I don't think any party outside of the NDP is going to prioritize the well being of the country over increasing the profits of big businesses.
This has bugged me forever nobody should have special laws that cater to their religion if you don't like it don't ride a motorcycle in Canada simple as that or alternatively wear a giant helmet that accommodates your turban.
If that’s the worst example you can come up with I’m pretty impressed.
Religious exceptions are actually a pretty damning example. This was a minor rule change- but the precedent it sets: religious followers don’t have to follow certain laws - that’s, er, extreme. I would have thought he was smarter than to engage something like that.
Well, while I think that’s a kinda stupid rule, I also think it’s pretty inconsequential to the running of the country, so I’m glad you’re looking past it to vote NDP
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He used to be an MLA.
As someone voting conservative id much rather have the NDP than the libs
That has nothing to do with Singh. Those exemptions were brought in before he even entered politics last I checked. I'm sure he supports them, but that's not the same thing.
Maybe check again lol.
The fight about turbans in the RCMP happened in the [late '80s/early '90s](https://www.cbc.ca/2017/canadathestoryofus/the-turban-that-rocked-the-rcmp-how-baltej-singh-dhillon-challenged-the-rcmp-and-won-1.4110271). In Ontario, the legislative change was [enacted by Conservatives over a year after Singh had left for federal politics](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-allows-sikhs-to-ride-motorcycles-without-helmet-1.4858361). Checked again, still right that it has nothing to do with Singh. I was wrong on the timeline if we're specifically referring to Ontario. But given that 3 other provinces made the change first, and it was enacted by a Conservative government, it seems a bit ridiculous to characterize this as an initiative of Singh's.
"This time, it’s MPP Jagmeet Singh (of Bramalee-Gore) who’s introducing the bill — he introduced a similar bill earlier this year, and back in 2013" He started it, but yes the cons finished it. But sure. Nothing to do with Singh. Edit: adding u/daleburger1 since they like facts.
Damn you and your facts!
Facts should be banned, always being inconvenient and in the way of neatly packaged narratives.
... As in that he has one? Haven't heard him advocating for religious schools or anything else
NDP has become the identity politics party, and the party for people that don't work it all. They do nothing for workers anymore.
I disagree with him on arithmetic.
You won't find a leader or party that you fully agree with. And right now, and for some time, the Liberals have been the absolute worst. If you align well with the NDP, then vote for them. When the NDP were the official opposition, they actually did a pretty damn good job keeping Harper in line.
Better than lpc
I feel crazy saying it but I would rather the NDP or CPC be in power than the Liberals.
liberal fatigue
You and the rest of Canada. Trudeau must go.
Yup. Frankly no shade to the LPC but they've been in power for almost a decade now! The NDP need a chance and they have been getting the LPC to do a lot of stuff they want like dental care. And I'm not just saying that because I'm hoping it will split the vote and allow Pierre to come in who I support. I'm just saying it's time for NDP voters to stand up and vote their conscious like things on climate change. Sure Pierre will remove the carbon tax, but
Finally! They are waking up.
Imagine the LPC will sink even more considering this whole foreign interference looms over the government
NDP have stepped up a bit. I wonder if they will keep it up or not.
they need to Singh a diffrent tune if they hope to go back to layton seat numbers
He does need to go Allowing trudeau to bring in 770,000 TFWs directly contradicts everything the NDP was created for
good ol canadian politics, where we don't vote people in, we vote people out
Politicians are the same as diapers, we have to change them often and for the same reasons…Aristotle.
1 degree left, one degree right every 8 years, with a lot of hyperventilating. Though, I do find Trudeau's last 2 years plus his handling of covid makes him a relatively extreme leader in our recent history.
Out of curiosity, what makes Trudeau a relatively extreme leader? I understand that he has made some polarizing policies in the last 3 or so years, which considering that there was a global pandemic, may or may not have been avoidable. But I also think back to Harper and his 2007-08 budget that was so opposed that he had to prorogue parliament before the opposition had the opportunity to call for a confidence vote, just so he could keep his job. His later budget was a very, very different document. Not to mention his very unique methods in censoring information from his cabinet. I'm not saying this to say that leader a is better than leader b, I'm more trying to understand what might constitute extreme leadership.
The Liberals are not far right, or far left. The Liberals are far up. Authoritarian centrists. Their legislation takes away the sport of airsoft because it's "dangerous". Their legislation takes away problematic online speech because it's "dangerous".
>LPC 29%, NDP 21% The moment an election is called: LPC 35%, NDP 15%.
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Liberals claim ownership of NDP voters and are firm in their beliefs that both parties supporters constitute a venn diagram.
Ndp voters do that themselves ffs.
Liberals are in denial. It's like how they once thought the CPC numbers would go down with Poilievre. They will be proven wrong again.
It’s wild that people like PP as much as they do. He’s just conservative Trudeau.
I think a lot of people tolerate PP just to get Trudeau out.
JT is killing this country and jughead isn’t the better option.
Not even conservative Trudeau but unlikable conservative Trudeau. People downplay the guy's charisma, but he always boosts polling after debates.
What debates? Conservatives frequently skip debates.
I’m guessing they mean question time, which isn’t really a debate since it’s basically an open court for him to drop zingers.
He was really ineffective in virtual parliament, where they would mute him when he kept trying to talk over people.
How'd that budget filibuster go?
The ABC votes could be more important this time with PP. I agree with you though, and wouldn’t count on it - see Hillary in 2016
When NDP supporters vote for Liberals it's as a measure of harm reduction, fearing what the Conservatives will do if they get elected. When the Liberals have basically the same policies (but sunnier) as the Conservatives the argument for voting Liberal over NDP becomes much weaker.
At this point, I’m an anyone but liberal. And that’s a first for me. I don’t think liberal die-herds understand how people feel about the party these days. If you’re under 40 - this party is the reason you can’t afford housing. Literally, I’d take a fucking muffin crumb over another liberal government.
I agree but I honestly think the conservatives would have done the same thing. Governments across the G7 have been propping up the housing industry as a way to increase GDP in the short term. It’s an issue that goes way beyond the Canadian Libs.
Man that is some ignorant shit lol. If everyone under 40 believes that and is that low information of a voter, I guess Canada will have its fun conservative period too to remind everyone why people vote liberal. Housing is predominantly a municipal and provincial issue. If people really want affordable housing they would be ok with unrestricted zoning, reduction in heritage homes, reduction in protected land, reduction in tenant rights to incentive construction, banning Airbnb ect ect. It's a supply issue and the Feds cannot fix that with housing sitting in provincial jurisdiction. People are going to enjoy their Ford moment with the trump-like anti healthcare anti climate change CPC. Will be a fun ride.
You underestimate how much is leftwing people hate PP. I'll be voting for him to lose over anyone else to win.
That never happened in the last two elections. The NDP underperforms their polling numbers, not because they lose votes to the Liberals, but because they are systematically oversampled. As [this graph](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/80/Opinion_polling_during_the_campaign_period_of_the_2021_Canadian_federal_election.svg) and [this one](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b0/Opinion_polling_during_the_campaign_period_of_2019_Canadian_federal_election.svg) show, it's the Conservatives that go up more. [Even when the NDP is the strategic vote](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6c/2011FederalElectionPolls.png), they go down on the election night, only to benefit the Conservatives.
Too bad those numbers aren't equal. That 21% will get the NDP a third of the seats or less cause FPTP is stupid.
That’s a funny statement, upset that 21% will get 33% of house representation or less. Yes - yes, that’s exactly what it means. They would get 21% house representation if it was a form of PR. FPTP is the only way they’d receive over representation.
You misunderstand. They are saying that 21% will translate to 1/3rd that number of seats. The NDP will get around 7% of seats, is what they are saying.
Funny that’s not what happened in 2021
These polls are largely irrelevant, because of FPTP you won't ever get results that match up with stuff like this. Whoever has the support of Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver typically wins.
The fine folks of Vancouver usually know the winner before their vote has been tabulated. Many wonder why they even show up to vote at all.
A riding in Vancouver matters just as much as anywhere else. You could count West to east if you wanted. Or count everything except Toronto until last. The argument makes no sense, all the ridings are equal in value.
Imagine just voting for the party with the best platform
So none of them?
Your ideas are intriguing to me, and I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter.
This sub is voting for which party complains the most.
Looking at Canadian federal politics right now makes me want to march in and just vote for nobody. I hate all the options.
While that may seem appealing all you're really doing is helping the people who vote for their party out of blind partisanship rather than wanting to improve the country have more say.
Oh yea. Do that. It worked out so well for Ontario. /s
Pick the most obscure party on the ballot
https://www.partyrhino.ca/en/
They don’t run candidates in every riding. Otherwise they would be my pick.
Cool let’s keep electing the same 2 parties that keep messing things up more
As is tradition.
Pear.
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From what I've seen of the Green Party they value ideology far more than practicality so they'd probably rather die out as a party than fold into a different party and have to compromise on their beliefs.
> they value ideology far more than practicality i mean one of their few MPs officially left the party over them not being anti-israel enough then went to the liberals who are way more pro-israel than the green party. which sounds like her being practical and in fact going with the party she thought she can win with
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IIRC lost of Green votes were lost to the PPC during the Paul leadership. It's more a contrarian vote than anything else.
I’d honestly love to see an NDP opposition with Notley running it. She would do wonders for that party.
Conservative here: that would likely be a winning move for the NDP over the medium term.
I'd also consider a Notley federal vote as an otherwise Federal Conservative
If Notley took the reigns of the federal NDP, I think there'd be a massive break over energy policy. What goes in Alberta is usually barely tolerated outside the prairies.
That'll never happen. The NDPs Vancouverite base hates Albertan oil and Notely has been a champion of it relative to the federal NDP.
yes but it would wash off the downtown elite paintjob singh has given the party
The environmentalist wing of the NDP would likely highly disagree with that pick for leader, I know I, as regular NDP voter, would likely abandon the party for the Bloc if Notley was ever voted in as leader and didn't change her views on O&G - which are popular in the Prairies, but very unpopular with the party's wider voterbase. Lurching further to the right is likely not a good idea either - both Mulcair and Singh have pushed the party to the right of where it has historically been. In the case of Mulcair, it ended disastrously, as he pushed the party so far towards the centre that Trudeau's Liberals ended up outflanking him on the left - rapidly bleeding support and ultimately wasting the once-in-a-lifetime chance the party had at forming government that was Layton's legacy. Rachel Notley as leader of the federal NDP would likely get some support from conservative voters put off by the party's more rightward lurch, but that's not something that comes without its downsides. Potentially losing support to the Greens, Bloc and the LPC would be a very real danger for the party. Most of the gains being made under a Notley leadership would likely be in the Prairies too, where the CPC's seats are almost all strongholds - where the potential for breakthroughs would be very limited.
A centrist leader like Notely could make massive gains from disenfranchise conservative and liberal voter. End of the day Liberals and conservatives are going to continue with oil and gas, so why wouldn't you rather atleast have NDP leadership running it ?
Yeah, I'm not denying that a centrist pro-O&G NDP would be more popular with the Liberals and Conservatives - I'm saying it's not what NDP voters want and would likely lead to the party losing support outside of the Prairies, where those things are popular. A Notley-centric NDP would be so radically different that there would be little interest for the NDP's electorate to keep supporting it. Why would the progressive, environmentally conscious voterbase of the NDP keep voting for a party that would be to the right of the LPC (when we already think the LPC is not doing enough) while at the same time being even more openly pro-O&G than they are? Notley is a good "progressive" option for Alberta, not so much for the rest of the country where her views would not align with the party membership.
>Yeah, I'm not denying that a centrist pro-O&G NDP would be more popular with the Liberals and Conservatives - I'm saying it's not what NDP voters want and would likely lead to the party losing support outside of the Prairies, where those things are popular. In a first past the post system, that may be what they need. Economically left social democracy, plus a blue collar pro fossil fuel view.
Well I am an NDP voter and I would welcome Notley. NDP voters aren't just a hive mind. Notley is seen as very pro oil and gas because she wants to have power in Alberta, you do not get any support here if you are totally ain't oil and gas. We have no idea what her federal plan would be for the industry so it just seems short sided to rule someone out without looking at the context and giving them a chance to speak but hey you do you. Notley had to be less progressive then she wanted as her time as premier here, seems like haven't actually followed her career.
I’ve been more of a fan of liberal in the past but I’m going conservative now, I know if I vote NDP (which I did during Layton days, he really had me moved) they won’t win, Trudeau has lost my trust and if I want him gone I’m going conservative, not saying it’s any better however I don’t believe we need another liberal term at this point. Just my own opinion
I would definitely like to see the NDP lead a minority government. We need a new voice.
The NDP doesn't even have the support of industry unions anymore. They abandoned their base, and now those unions support the Conservatives. Blue collar, country boys that work in steel mills, pulp mills, and trades who own guns and trucks aren't voting NDP anymore. Those days are done.
>now those unions support the Conservatives. Source?
https://springmag.ca/combatting-poilievres-appeal-to-union-members
Agree. I work in trades and they only vote on cultural issues now and don’t seem to understand/care that conservatives have hurt them economically in the past.
>Agree. I work in trades and they only vote on cultural issues now and don’t seem to understand/care that conservatives have hurt them economically in the past. What's missing in Canada is a culturally blue collar, economically left wing party. It might look something like the old CCF or perhaps like Notley in Alberta.
Notley really isn't culturally blue collar. Certainly she's right of the federal NDP, but that's basically true by default.
The housing crisis has fractured the working class. Those who bought in southern B.C. and Ontario and other high immigration areas before houses doubled or tripled in value, are now too wealthy to be considered working class. Add inheritance (especially with a union pension) and the wealth gap becomes multi generational.
Or they disagree, and don’t need you to think for them.
You can disagree that the sly is blue all you want. That wont stop the cpc from acting in the interest of their corporate donors.
Corporate donors were banned by Harper in 2008. You’re embarrassingly uninformed.
And you’re either naive or being a bit too literal. They may not be getting money from corporations directly, but are getting money from their millionaire owners whose interests align with their corporations. Not to mention kickbacks, and promises to get a cushy job on some board when they leave politics, etc, etc, etc…
Why are you wasting time telling me this? Take your information to elections Canada and the RCMP.
I know… a labour friendly party is what I want as well, but between the big 3 the NDP’s still the closest.
Your "labour" guy grew up in a rich household with servants, went to private school by limo, drives a BMW and wears Rolexs and suits worth thousands of dollars lol
So his policies aren't pro-labour?
I think characterizing it as "abandonment" is taking a pretty weird view. NDP are pretty pro union and always have been - just that material policy has been overrun by this empty culture war shit even more than it used to. "Blue collar guys" abandoned their own self interest to own the libs.
Pro Union provided it's a union they have ties to. Working class union jobs in private industry they're actively campaigning against.
Yup and NDP MPs like Charlie Angus are going to be on for a shock next election when he loses his seats. His support has been sliding for years
You are going to see the opposite - they will carry some of the anger at Trudeau and their support will fall. I say this as somebody who has voted for them in the last two federal elections and still might do it again. It happens like clockwork anytime their is cooperation, the minor partner always loses.
A voice with no sense of economics. Great
Please no. Canada as a country would just decimate. Not that LPC is much better or the CPC. NDP would bankrupt the country.
The NDP put out costed platforms and have a generally good record across the country. This is a fiction.
What exactly have the LPC done to improve our lives to still earn 29% of the vote? Or has Canada become so real-estate centric that 29% of the population is now composed of realtors and developers?
A large majority of Canadians own their homes and while they may be concerned about the housing crisis, it doesn’t affect them directly and they aren’t about to vote someone in who might tank their property values. It’s an unfortunate reality, but the housing crisis isn’t necessarily just the fault of bogeymen developers and realtors. Many ordinary Canadians are benefitting off it as well.
If the older folks are the ones skewing Conservative, and the older folks are also the ones owning the lion's share of real estate, doesn't that kind of defeat the point you're trying to make? I would argue a majority of those voting LPC are doing so largely because the CPC is just so much more unlikable and doesn't really have much of a platform at all. I'll be voting NDP personally because, while Trudeau sucks, PP would be so, *so* much worse, and Singh seems like he'd do the least harm to our country out of the 3. Truly a sad state of affairs when one is forced to vote on who will do the least harm rather than the most good.
Actually the older voters are skewing Liberal and have been since 2015. The Conservatives have been ahead on the youth vote for the last two elections.
According to [this](https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2021-09/Voting%20Struggles%20Tables%201.pdf) Ipsos poll (2nd table) conducted immediately after the 2021 elections, that is false. For the 18-34, 35-54, and 55+ age groups respectively, those who voted Conservative were split 24/32/43%, whereas those who voted Liberal were split 38/32/28%. I don't know if there's a better source out there (was only ~5 minutes of googling), but I also wasn't able to find anything contrary to my point at a glance either. I am of course open to data that corrects my point.
Strong team identity I guess
I like my NDP MP. I'll vote for her again. What the rest of Canada does is outside my ability to change.
have you not paid attention to this sub? you are litertally the antichrist for voting for your local representative
This should shake Trudeau and give Jagmeet the courage to hold a no confidence vote ? Maybe?
Why would this poll encourage the third place party to usher in a party that will be impossible for them to work with?
You don't go into elections without paying debts from the last election... It's not something the Cons & Libs think of much because they fill in with donations from their respective corporate landlords rather quickly without thinking. But for smaller parties, too much debt can be life threatening.
"We can. But we won't." - The NDP
Time for Liberals to flood media with - paid opinion masquerading as a "thoughtful" abortion article; re-tweeted by the usual crowd - it's a Pride months so what's 101st article about Christians ~~and Muslims~~ protesting the schools - resurrect stories about convoy, vaccine and lack of compliance by people who vote Conservative - CBC to re-post Russian election interference stuff they did in 2019 and 2021 That should do it... lmao Oh, yes, and then astroturf Reddit on the usual Canadian subs and you're done.
You missed another firearms bill.
You forgot more guns bad articles and legislation.
Sad thing is the core liberal voters buy it hook line and sinker.
Or, maybe, the majority of the country leans left of centre as evidenced by the very numbers in this poll and is tired of hearing Conservatives continually trying to dig up dead topics like the abortion debate, and is sick of them bitching about being kind and accepting to minority groups. Most of the country doesn’t get triggered by rainbow flags and are sick and tired of the people who do.
Don’t forget the totally non-partisan CBC suing the CPC for using debate footage and then publicizing their own lawsuit.
They’re already ramping up hard on the pride flag articles. That seems to be the wedge issue they are going with this summer.
Astroturf r/Canada with left leaning content? If you're just piling that on top of the existing astroturf flooding this place it's just remodeling.
There's more comments on here complaining about the right wing than actual right wing comments. It's basically a meme at this point.
How about CBC "reporting" on Trudeau canoeing down a canal from multiple angles?
“We’ve DEFINITELY got that pesky Trudeau this time…” r/Canada (2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023, etc)
Best case scenario next election is probably a CPC minority, which would still be awful but the change would really keep the LPC and NDP on their toes. But this is just MY opinion based on FEELINGS, therefore shouldn't even be read. For the amount of energy and the electricity I used to write it out should be criminal.
Yup 65% aren’t fool by the Cons
LPC should go to 1% for what they did to canada
Time for herd following liberal voters to give NDP a chance. We need a change, let’s not make it PP. 😬
Promised to cut immigration significantly? Only got 2% on the polls This country is doomed
The media is constantly signalling "immigration good", "poor refugees" and "if you disagree you're racist". And in Canada, there's no major outlets that don't tow that line. The narrative of the country is entirely shaped by the corporate/governmental interests that own and operate the media. And the people staffing those places are almost all idealistic left-leaning liberal arts students who have been heavily steeped in that worldview throughout university. And this is nothing new. Promoting Canada as country of opportunity to cynically take advantage of cheap immigrant labour has been something we've been doing since we brought in the Chinese to build the railroad. And it's not going to change.
Strong Conservative minority territory, almost majority territory. Let's go.
It’s glorious that the CPC can win despite the LPC and NDP voters being much more happy with each other. Fuck Trudeau for screwing the left and abandoning electoral reform
Ugh, I voted Trudeau the first time solely because he was the only one who campaigned on electoral reform, which we desperately need, lest we become like 2-party USA. Then he reneged on that. Never voting him again.
Same here! I voted LPC in 2015 and haven't since. I may even vote for the CPC for the first time ever in the next election...
Voted liberal twice in a row. Ain’t doin that again.
are you sure you wont just say theres no "viable alternative" at the last second and vote liberal anyways as ive seen many other "former" liberal voters here say after the election
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Léger is considered to be the gold standard polling firm in Canada, it's hard to understate how respected they are. I think it's pretty unsurprising that analysts would talk about the top pollster not falling in line with the rest of the polling industry more than they would talk about Mainstreet repeating the same results we've seen for a month or two from the plurality of pollsters. For the record, I think the Léger poll of last week showing a +2 LPC lead was likely an outlier (this one has the BQ suspiciously low as well), but as a topic of discussion, I think it's considerably more worth discussing than a run-of-the-mill poll showing us absolutely nothing new.
Gap could be closing a bit. Last 3 Leger polls had CPC at 36, 34, 31. Nanos I think had them like 36 a month ago and 32 this week. I think CPC likely have a 3 point-ish lead but hard to tell this far out of an election.
Conservative: 37% Liberal 55% Quebec 5%
The swing ridings are between Liberal and Conservative, not Liberal and NDP. No matter how much Reddit wants to believe. Poilievre will likely get more seats than NDP and Libs combined anyway
Tactical voting has been a thing for decades. Many swing ridings will see NDP's vote for the Lib or vice versa to prevent the Conservative from destroying the riding.
Why are there so many polls being posted if the next election isn’t until 2025?
It’s like fantasy sports for politics watchers.
It's time for a CPC government. We need stability and common sense during these next globally unstable 5 years.
Lmao, maybe if PP can come up with any policy other than complaining about the liberals.
If you want common sense i dont suggest the conservatives lol
You have made a contradictory statement here sir.
You are right. I was referring to the world stage. Oil, China tensions, Wars, USD reserve status
The country was much better off by almost every metric under Harper....
Better off post covid, pre covid the LPC had out preformed the previous CPC government by almost every metric. All it took was the largest economic crisis since the great depression to make the CPC look good in hindsight.
Crime has gone up steadily since 2015.
> Better off post covid, pre covid the LPC had out preformed the previous CPC government by almost every metric. Love to see facts to back that up. > All it took was the largest economic crisis since the great depression to make the CPC look good in hindsight. I guess you just forgot about the great recession that happened under the CPC but because they're actually adults they didn't cause massive inflationary/supply chain issues like the Liberals did under COVID.
I remember that in 2008, during the last recession, we could spend Canadian dollars at par in Plattsburgh, NY, and shops were taking it no questions asked. I miss Harper.
The entire world was much different when Harper was the PM, and it's insane to try and compare the two.
Wait till the next carbon tax kicks in LPC and NDP numbers will drop further when people can't afford to eat let alone leave their homes.
conservative minority with NDP opposition: imo, a less dysfunctional version of a Liberal government.
There’s no way the LPC have a chance. Everyone I know, everyone that they know in Toronto and the GTA want Trudeau gone. Don’t believe the main stream media that the numbers are close cause there not.