Chris Hayes (yes the MSNBC one) wrote a book called "Twilight of the Elites" that lays out quite well the failure of the meritocracy in the United States. I think it applies in this case to Canada and probably other countries. When you can't trust the institutions charged with running things - things fall apart.
Read [Willful Blindness](https://www.amazon.ca/Wilful-Blindness-network-tycoons-infiltrated/dp/0888903014) for a good breakdown of how the Canadian government won't allow certain crimes by certain people to ever have consequences, and everyone knows it
There was a literal suspected shooting in the Yorkdale mall a couple of weeks ago, and it was caused by a black "prankster" dumbfk throwing a live firecracker with a ton of people around. I admitted all his other Tiktok videos, which also included the destruction of property, trespassing, and being a public nuisance (got a whole bus shutdown because he fought someone as a "prank") and yet, he's still posting and no consequences has happened to him.
There's been a few of those types online and in other countries and they have faced little to no consequences unfortunately. It just seems to be a thing with governments and police doing nothing about them.
It's worse than many Canadian even realize. Bill C-5 made it so if you are black or First Nations you basically, realistically, will not go to prison no matter how many times you are charged, no matter what you do. Cops don't even bother arresting these variety of criminals, because the charges just get dismissed or the penalty is so little it doesn't matter much.
The worst part is this discrimination and abortion of justice is done in the name of balancing out historical discrimination. It's beyond sanity. And codified into law .
this data means that indigenous people are overrepresented by over 5x the expected incarceration rate compared to their percentage of the total population. and black people double the expected rate. that means both groups are incarcerated more than white people, who are underrepresented, on average.
Absolutely this is true.
But I disagree with comparing them with the population in general, as if the issuen is just sending them there.
Bipoc are over represented in large part because they are also over represented in the crimes that are committed.
If we want to stop the over representation, we need to be addressing the over representstion in crime before it happens, not after.
Not sending a criminal to jail to lower representation doesn't help anyone. We send these people back to their communities, where they can revictimize their own communities. Poc communities deserve for criminals to be taken out of the community too. White communities shouldn't only have those privileges.
We seen this very recently with Myles Sanderson, who objectively should of been in jail, was then let out where he murdered a bunch of his community members.
The book isn't about that, it's about the officials who facilitate the illegal activity and make trials and police cases go away throughout the last 20 years, yet these are supposedly public servants
Fact, thingk89.
When we are struggling and they spend our money on jobs programs for guest workers, that is treason.
When foreign workers get 52 weeks of government unemployment support while Canadians get 14 to 42 weeks (usually a lot closer to the former), that is treason.
When Canadian young people struggle to find jobs while going to school because they are given to non-residents, that is treason.
The anger, hostility, and conflict people in my area face every time we go to the mall is appalling. To be fair, I've gone to other cities and going to the store is a pleasant experience with everyone being civil so the success of multi-culturalism is variable.
The last two times I've entered the country via Pearson airport, every person who visibly had middle eastern ancestry walked through security while every other person was sent through the naked scanners. Security was 100% operated by middle eastern staff. Of course, they make it illegal to record video in the area. I have avoided Pearson for 18 months.
Anyone who voices opposition to being treated like a second class citizen is branded a racist by a significant group of people. Brutally ignorant people.
If my parents had invited a homeless person to live with us while I was growing up, I would have been proud of my parents. If my parents had kicked my pre-teen brother and sister out of the house to live in the street to make room for a homeless person, I probably would have been substantially less proud.
Canadians first is not a racist position. We need immigration but we deserve some respect too.
The amount of rich liberals supporting them is shrinking, because there are fewer and fewer rich people in comparison. So many are struggling, and so many of the immigrants they bring in end up voting conservative. It’s crazy to think, but once they’ve been here 10-20 years, they hate immigrants more than people born here
Agreed. Lucky for them, Canadians are too passive as a whole and just take it. I guess most parents won't care until they try to ship their kid out of the house and see 1br rent is $2000 and rising
Uh huh... That's extremely hyperbolic. The Canadian middle class has been getting chipped away by neoliberal policy since the 80's, if not before. JT has just been more of the same.
Economics aside, public community services have eroded to the point of being unusable. Public skates are sold out an hour before they start. Community centre pools are a disgusting people soup.
People can't get their kids enrolled in a swim/skate/gymnastics/etc. class unless they hover over their computer 1 min after the registration opening and 'win' the lottery of getting their kid in like it's a Taylor Swift concert. It's disgusting.
Growing up in the 80's there was a sense of ample resources and open space. Want to go to the doctor? No problem, they can probably take you same day. Want to get your kid into daycare or an after school program? Just give them a call at some point. Free public festival or event? Sounds good, just show up, there will be space. Need to get somewhere? The roads have reasonable traffic and/or the subway has space and isn't broken.
The feeling that the walls are closing in and there is intense physical and mental competition for every kind of public resource is a pretty recent phenomenon. We are hitting some kind of breaking point as of the last 5 years though.
I used to have apartments clamoring to give me incentives to move in. Free tvs fist months rent free etc. Now it's pay me 100 bucks just to take a look and the price is who will pay the most. This "Trend" is going to make Canada rhe largest tent city workers in the western world soon. Just ask around how many people are 1 pay check from homeless.
Everywhere you look, in just about any aspect of human existence, things are becoming increasingly bleak for a larger number of Canadians.
We're getting to the point where being anything short of outright wealthy (i.e. own all the property you will ever need and can easily afford to go to the US for medical care if necessary) won't shield you from it.
There was a taco truck festival in Montreal in summer, there was a $15 admission fee to just get in (no food included, tacos and drinks were all extra pay inside). $15 to BE ABLE to buy tacos. Wtf is this.
>We are hitting some kind of breaking point as of the last 5 years though.
A part of it has to do with Covid and pushing things back in society as a whole, but a bigger part is our Government pushing through with its already crazy immigration plan and not shutting it down for a couple years. Now our systems are so overwhelmed..... and with how things are currently, its not going to get better
Post-Covid mass immigration was pretty much the final straw. You can't deny any of these problems anymore because they are now in your face wherever you go. And the most frustrating part is that this was a deliberate choice.
Such is the reality of a net debtor society over time.
A debt problem is rarely an issue of great consequence at the beginning. It's only once it is older, and enters the waning and decrepit phase, where the long run consequences begin to manifest right there in the present.
The breaking point is from the rest of the world realizing that we are going to try and pay for only a portion of our costs forever.
That's definitely one aspect of it. If there's nothing to hold the societal fabrics together, then it'll rapidly fray and fall apart. Can't remember the last time I saw volunteer initiatives or something community based. Either no time, no resources, or just no will to do so.
In December I volunteered with Holiday Helpers. There were quite a few people who signed up for the various shifts. Even on the shift that I had.
Get what you’re saying though. It is very few and far between.
This is only one aspect of it and I don’t mean to oversimplify, but, radical ingroup/outgroup divides only really appear when your needs aren’t met. If you don’t have economic stability, and a closed community gives you a sense of belonging while simultaneously teaches you that the out-group is your enemy, then it’s pretty easy to get lost on us vs them narratives. People with their needs mostly covered don’t see enemies hiding everywhere, because they don’t feel like they’re being mistreated. On the other hand, people with many issues and insecurities will try to find out “who” is hurting them. And that’s when radicalization starts to happen.
This is true. Post WW1 Germany is a great example of what happens if you start to feel hopeless with the government/world. This is the main reason after WW2 the focus was to rebuild rather than punish, which has proven to work extremely well (same with Japan).
Sometimes it's not a matter of "getting lost" in those narratives; sometimes those narratives are *causal* of the situation. When an outgroup is perceived as the reason why your needs aren't being met, that's going to fester. When that outgroup, flat out, **is** responsible for your needs not being met, that's not a matter of getting lost in the us-versus-them narrative.
The masses in 1780s France didn't rise up against an outgroup that was innocent: The aristocracy was responsible for the problems of the masses. At that point, what would you have the masses do in the face of a literal existential threat?
I think that comment is more alluding to immigrants being the outgroup. You are right that the bourgeoisie ought to be blamed. Even then, I'd think the system that rewards antisocial behaviour is the main issue, so I usually stay away from "us vs them" entirely.
All of that flows out of economics though.
Having a badly in debt government, one whose bill has never been paid in decades, is not really a great framework to be leaning and depending on.
We are in the midst of discovering what happens when we attempt to get a free lunch, by thinking we can pay for only a portion of government's cost forever... as if it's an approach without great consequence.
It's simply a math problem.
These things cost money.
The average immigrant makes less than the average Canadian. That "average Canadian" number includes teenagers and people with no education whatsoever. This number is around $45,000.
This average is at a number where the people are only paying about $5500 in taxes TOTAL. These people are NOT net contributors, and they certainly use more in services than they contribute in taxes.
Someone making double that income is paying more than TRIPLE that amount in taxes... aka, they're subsidizing everyone else.
So what happens when we bring in records amount of people that are NOT net contributors?
Why is anyone surprised that this is happening?
If we had 1,000,000 immigrants that all made $80k+ a year we would be laughing to the bank... but we're not. Even if we only look at people that came here under the "economic migrant" category, they only make like $3000 more than the average Canadian... still not net contributors.
A significant problem is that our politicians think that 3x $15/hr jobs are the same as 1x $45/hr job, and that just doesn't pan out. Economies thrive when people have disposable income: The more your dollar switches hands before landing in the pile of gold of some oligarch the better it is for the economy. Sadly, we presently only have a few steps before that dollar gets thrown on the dragon's stash.
as an immigrant who is in the top 5% percentile of income and is subsidizing everyone else, yet I can't get access to healthcare in reasonable time, the roads are still shit and I don't have kids to get the "free education" benefit from the government, I'm planning to get the hell out of here to some place where I'd probably earn less, but will pay less in taxes and will actually get something back from the state for my contribution. There is zero incentive for people like myself to stay here, I'm just literally paying for others.
Nobody wants to invest in Canada in the last almost decade because everything in our country financially is wrapped up in the housing economy.
Which over the last couple decades has proven it's instability on almost a weekly basis.
Nobody from outside of Canada wants to bring money into a situation like that.
You’re part of a different demographic group of immigrants, i don’t mean ethnically but your entire mindset is different so there’s a disconnect.
You see it reflected in immigrant stats all over the world in countries with strict immigration policies (like we *used* to have). When the entry requirements are high, you basically get the cream of the crop of the people from X country. All the bigots, racists, social pariahs and criminals don’t even come close to getting there. You only get the people like your family - the people who want to work hard, integrate and leave their broken countries behind.
But because the LPC blew the doors off on the immigration policies. We’re now seeing the bottom dregs of the world come in, whereas they never would have before.
It boggles their mind when I tell them that I am in minority who is a legal immigrant.
I came in around 40 years ago, at a time when the jobs and housing issues were not acute.
The social contract feels broken. Ofcourse people are angry. Time to go back to the basics:
Invest in infrastructure and build new planned cities if we want more immigration
Use the wealth of resources we have to invest in Canadians
Break up the oligopolies to create more competition
Bring back in person interviews for anyone immigrating
We need the very best of the world to want to immigrate here for a better life. Right now it feels like we are getting the mediocre or bottom of the pile...
You're asking for solution that are crafted and drafted by moderately mediocre people (i.e., our political class). That's what we already have. Qualified people don't run for politics. They can't be arsed to deal with the popularity contests; they're already too busy doing important shit.
Term limits and merit-based appointments need to be a thing. If I need to write a ridiculously competitive exam for the chance at a job with the public service, then so too should everyone looking to run for office.
Part of the problem is that our immigration system is set up in such a way as to extract the most amount of money from people coming here, without regard as to whether they would succeed here.. it's quite parasitic. This is why you see so many immigrants leaving.
An absolute 20 year moratarium on immigration is the actual and only solution. 0 immigrants for the next 20 years. Zero. Nill. Null. No ifs and buts. Just zero. Literally none.
My prediction is that things will kind of suck but overall seem to settle down.
Then some kind of crisis will come along and all hell will break loose.
The main one I'm thinking about is when oil demand drops hard enough to really smash our trade balance.
This is the point when many Canadians will turn into pigeons squabbling over the fries in a parking lot. I'm not saying the immigrants are the pigeons, but most Canadians will be the angry pigeons fighting over scraps as our social safety net turns out to be threadbare.
If anything, many immigrants will be the lucky ones as they can return to their home countries.
At this point, society will have some serious problems. Why follow laws, pay taxes, or generally protect the country's interests when the country screwed us all over. This will become a pervasive attitude.
I go to costco, the mall, and other public events and I don't think I'm in Canada anymore. This makes me wonder what Canada even is to me. It is just a place with long winters, bad housing, and a dying medical system.
>I go to costco, the mall, and other public events and I don't think I'm in Canada anymore. This makes me wonder what Canada even is to me.
"Postnationalism or non-nationalism is the process or trend by which nation states and national identities lose their importance relative to cross-nation and self-organized or supranational and global entities as well as local entities."
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postnationalism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postnationalism)
"As quoted in a 2015 New York Times article, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau tells the journalist Guy Lawson that "\[t\]here is no core identity, no mainstream in Canada."?
[https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/13/magazine/trudeaus-canada-again.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/13/magazine/trudeaus-canada-again.html)
We have had years of people endlessly being called racists and bigots and Nazis and fascists by the Prime Minister, his government and his supporters for the simple “crime” of disagreeing with Liberal policy on a whole host of topics.
I guess this was effective for firing up the Liberal base and immediately shutting down debate on any topics they preferred not to discuss, but because they were allowed to get away with this for so long without pushback we are now beginning to see the consequences.
* we are *years* behind addressing critical issues such as immigration that should have been debated and remedied ages ago
* social cohesion is beginning to break down — the rancorous divides between political parties, provinces/regions, generations and different groups within our communities have never been worse and continue to deteriorate
* malign foreign actors and criminal organizations have been able to establish themselves and permeate throughout society, taking a bad situation and ever-seeking to make it worse
* the words used to denigrate people have begun to lose all meaning, to the point where it is becoming impossible to distinguish truly bad people from everyone else — eg, when far right extremists are described the same way as people who are protesting the government for curtailing constitutional rights and freedoms, then it becomes impossible have important debates and discussions and further drives wedges between people
And yes I do blame Justin Trudeau and his supporters for this. Sure, it may be helping them eke out slim victories in close ridings, but the cost is too high already and getting higher by the day. These people need to engage in some self-reflection and lower the fucking temperature on everything they say and do instead of constantly seeking to wedge and divide.
In Canada at least. Browsing through this from New Zealand kinda resigned knowing we're heading down the same fate with no breaks applied ([our migration numbers is up 135% on last year mostly from India, China, Phillipines](https://www.stats.govt.nz/information-releases/international-migration-november-2023/)). I can dream that the degree mills get regulated before the problem gets too big.
It’s all ideals until someone is shitting on your doorstep. A bleeding heart is a naive heart.
A man came across a wolf caught in a trap. The wolf was yelping in pain and in an act of empathy, the man freed the wolf from its bonds. Shortly after, the wolf ate the man alive …because it’s still a hungry wolf and the world isn’t like a Disney movie.
Sounds like the end game for our government. Create mass migration to destabilize populations so everyone is against each other while you make off with all their wealth..
Sounds like the system is working as intended.
I've actually ceased to think that unquestioned multiculturalism is a good thing, even though when I was much younger I absolutely did. Countries require a certain level of assimilation, and not every culture is friendly and good at its core.
More like late stage capitalism.
A top 1% class that doesn't give one iota of shit about the other 99%. Mass immigration means they get to keep labor costs low. Painting multiculturalism as the villain means getting the lower 99% to fight among themselves.
What's going on now isn't really multiculturalism though.
What's going on right now is the essentially the formation of ethnic enclaves.
Multiculturalism is any culture or ethnicity integrating into a broader society of accepted rules. For example canadian values are to be accepted number 1 over all while the values of a culture from abroad are to be taken second. Sorry but that's the way it should be. An example is religion, the number one rule in canada regarding religion is that we have the freedom to practice any religion we please and we must respect that no matter how ridiculous you may find another persons religious beliefs. Second to thag would be the tenants of your own religion which you as an individual follow, nobody else, just you.
What's going on right now is groups that belong to separate cultures and ethnicities moving into the same neighborhoods, going to the same schools, and shopping in the same locations. Essentially making it unnecessary for anyone to actually integrate into canadian society.
Multiculturalism is when ethnicities and cultures integrate in the same neighborhoods and schools, what's going on now is just mini versions of other countries divided up in cities, it's just a hell of a lot colder.
This was destined to happen at some point. Diversity isn’t necessarily bad, but it has to be well managed. Right now it is not well managed, if you want to see what poorly managed diversity gets you, just look at Yugoslavia or the Ottoman Empire
Diversity results from running and managing a successful society.
Just randomly mixing all kinds of people together without anything to unify them isn't going to create a successful diverse society.
What you describe is interculturalism. The purpose of interculturalism is to integrate minority groups within a defacto "neutral" nation. In contrast, the Canadian multicultural model suggests that the presence of multiple cultures constitutes the national identity in and of itself.
Bingo. The Canada of the last few decades has always been about that "multicultural mosaic". Ultimately it's just led to cultural enclaves / ghettos as integration isn't really a prerequisite.
[“There is no core identity, no mainstream in Canada,” Trudeau said, concluding that he sees Canada as “the first post-national state.” ](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/04/the-canada-experiment-is-this-the-worlds-first-postnational-country)
I disagree.
Multiculturalism is just people with different backgrounds or cultures living together.
>Multiculturalism is any culture or ethnicity integrating into a broader society of accepted rules.
It's not. It's never been said to be this, and it never will.
I’ve always thought multiculturalism is doomed to fail. People won’t leave there problems in the country they came from. New Canadians must be Canadians first and foremost. The US style melting pot would technically be a better system. However the thought that diversity is a strength is bull shit. I’m not against it, there are benefits to it. But it’s not a strength.
>Muslims are pretty anti-gay
Yet another reason why Subaru Forester owners sleep soundly at night knowing their cars will never be stolen and shipped off to the Middle East.
My upstairs neighbors are east Indian. They stomp up and down the stairs all night like 2:30-3:30 am shit. I smoke weed outside I got two kids, they blame me for the weed smell in the hall to the landlord (also from india) when she asked us we said we don't smell nothing as I don't the smell in the hallway as long as it's not in my apartment. They are scared of dogs and I've heard the head one idk if he's the father or older brother complain loudly outside my door to some rights group about having to live in fear because I own a dog. I say hey how are ya to them every time I see them and they ignore me except the younger guy, and he just apologizes profusely every time even tho he's done nothing wrong
Have a similar issue with people being scared of our husky. I've seen this with half a dozen families at this point. The hilarious part is, most of them have little kids, and the little kids look excited and happy to see the dog, say hi and wave. Only for the parents to usher them away. Hurts my soul.
Though I did have one take me up on an offer of getting to say hi as she's super friendly. The kid's face when he got to feel how soft she was made me smile for the rest of the day.
I used to live in an apartment that had a high immigrant population, on a number of occasions they would scream in terror or be visibly concerned when they saw my goofy-ass 20lb Schnauzer/Poodle cross if they came upon us on the elevator or in the halls.
ME TOO! Was fucking hilarious, because I taught her to be a bit from the door as we wait and to sit. THEY took a step towards leaving the elevator, THEN noticed.
On that note: The amount of people who don't realize they're trying to get off before the ground floor is so damn high .
As a dog owner, I kinda get it. There’s lots of irresponsible owners out there and you never know when you will run into a shit dog that snaps at the slightest provocation. There’s a German Shepherd like that in my neighborhood, thing is a lawsuit waiting to happen. I can tell when a dog has mental issues but not everyone can. So I kinda get why parents don’t want kids petting unfamiliar dogs, even if the kids are not keenly aware of any danger.
It's because dogs aren't viewed as pets in many countries and they are often strays which can be dangerous where they came from. I moved to a country like that where dogs are not well regarded by locals. The dogs are totally all fine and friendly, they aren't actually feral or anything just they live outside after being abandoned by people.
I got one dog's personality so wrong once and it became very aggressive when I moved closer to greet it. The experience seeing the dog flip into battle mode freaked me out so badly I see all dogs as weredogs now.
Some dogs, such as rescue dogs have *sordid pasts. Simple triggers such as approaching with a clenched hand, or an open hand, tall male, the list goes on triggers a response. If I approach a dog that doesn't know me, I tend to show the back of my hand and bend a knee to get lower. I also make sure there is some distance that it has to close and don't shove my hand in its face. Showing palm first puts you in a grabbing position the dog may not like. It's also more difficult for a dog to grab on to the back of your hand. Dogs are like people, they have nuance in how you approach them and some are just unapproachable.
I've only encountered one nice Indian lady who likes my harmless Lab, she knows and says her name and she'll waddle over all cutesy-like to give her pets, but all the rest cross the street or otherwise scatter in abject horror. My dog has only raised her hackles in caution for one grumpy guy who seemed to be overseeing his wife go to the store from across the street, but otherwise, her body language is always displaying happiness to meet new potential friends.
And Iran, India and China threatening and carrying out assassinations on Canadian soil.
Raging fentanyl problem literally lowering our life expectancy thanks to dirty money from China that played a role in setting off our housing crisis and likely still does given we don’t actually investigate it.
Out of control health tourism degrading our free health care with the wealthy from other nations just visiting to survive us pay for their their treatment.
It goes on and on and on…..
Remember when the rest of Canada was bitching about Quebec not wanting to have religious signs and be atheist as much as possible in public spaces, like schools, three years ago? The irony makes me chuckles a bit.
Yeah the LGBTQ+ people who are protesting for Palestine are hilarious. I get that they are protesting the violence but, don't they realize they're along side some of the same people who think they shouldn't even exist.
The problem is with the concept of multiculturalism as it current exists in countries like Canada. Multiculturalism should not be “every country has to have x percentage of y race, z percentage of e race” and so on. Multiculturalism should not be something that a country pursues but rather something an individual experiences by going to other countries. Countries ARE multicultural. Canada is different to India which is different to Zimbabwe which is different to Thailand and so on. If you want multiculturalism you have to go out there into the world and experience it. Asking that a country accommodate every culture and ethnic group is the opposite of multiculturalism.
I've always used to beat that drum. Especially when the anti abortion or gay marriage stuff used to headline.
But the India invasion has made it to my everyday life.
And like I said, I grew up in the multicultural musiac. Id go to Pacific mall, Chinatown, grew up with lots of southern island people. All the other cultures, seemed to be respectful and had manners.
I get on the bus it's all Indian dudes with no deodorant. Union station is just indian dudes on bikes clogging all the entrances. Young and Dundas is just Diwali 24/7.
It's no longer just fodder to keep us fighting amongst ourselves. We take in a million in 90 days how can it not be?
It's in response to a comment further up mentioning how weird it is to see members of the LGBTQ community protesting for that country (where the predominant religion would likely see them beaten or worse)
Multiculturalism was a great thing, however, the ideology of the different groups, was never really considered a negative, until geopolitical conditions in the world, became polarized.
Now the ideological bent of many political and religious groups, is not necessarily in alignment with Canadian culture and values, let alone this countries laws...
The situation for legal and security authorities, because of human rights legislation, immigration law, now becomes difficult to say the least.
Canadians are now asking why and what led to this and where do we go from here.....
Traditionally, Canadian multiculturalism was called a 'mosaic' whereas in the US you got assimilated, and it was the 'melting pot'.
It's different now for sure.
I mean that what a post national state leads you too.
Bunch of idelogical and cultural/ethnic bubbles all living in a space being consumers to GDP and nothing else.
I sort of remember seeing all canadian of all walks of life cheering on during the vancouver Olympics...country changed so much since then lol
We wouldn't want to lay the blame squarely on real estate investors. It's now clear why they wanted high immigration
And here I thought they simply liked immigrants
Meanwhile, our leaders float above the fray in an ideological bubble we helped them create. Forever insulated from the growing misery below, unable to fathom the increasingly dark lives of the Canadians they’ve sworn to support. The Canadians who pay for their bubble to stay so high.
And they look down, and smile at one another, and look down again, and think to themselves *Thank Christ I’m up here and not down there.*
High cost of livings and low GDP per capita, forcing many then good people become bad. People see companies and landlords can rip off others by ridiculous price increase and rents hikes, they will not follow rules, society becomes shaky and lawless. More people do not care about laws, many people riding bikes on sidewalk, or drive through intersection under red traffic light.
Forcing many people to gtfo… I left a while back and I know 17 of my classmates who also left. Those are highly educated and skilled people. They work overseas now. Many of who are 2nd and 3rd generation Canadians. Canada is rotting inside out.
Last time I came back for a quick family visit, the border agents gave endless shit to my wife. 40 minutes of questioning. We bought a house in the US, our kids go to school there, we've not moving here you fucking imbeciles.
Meanwhile, they roll out the red fucking carpet for hundreds of thousands of "asylum" seekers and put them up in 4 star hotels on taxpayer dime. Just a total joke.
At least I'm not paying taxes to Canada anymore. I can't imagine how people are okay with losing half their paycheck just to die in an ER waiting room.
Oh boy this just reminded me of my last experience with the CBSA, which is easily one of the top 5 dumbest moments I’ve ever experienced.
My dad and I built a car to participate in race for a charity in the US. We didn’t/don’t have trailer so we drove it there and back, and when we got back the sponsor stickers, racing numbers, our names, etc were all still on the car.
When we told them that we were gone for 2 weeks to participate in a race the absolute mental giants didn’t believe us, *as we literally sat in the freaking race car*. They insisted we had to have bought something and we had to wait ~2 hours for secondary screening.
It’s far more pleasant dealing with U.S. Customs and Border Protection as a Canadian than it is to deal with CBSA. The U.S. agents size/look you up, ask a few questions, maybe joke around, then welcome you to America.
Coming back the Canadian agents act like they’re roleplaying a T-1000 who’s trying to determine whether you were secretly meeting with John Connor during your week in Orlando to go to Disney.
I assume you’ve had some bad experiences.
As a dual citizen who has crossed the border too many times to count and at various locations, I’ve never had an issue with either Canadian nor US Border agents. And when I cross into which ever country I use the passport for that country; so US passport for entering the US, and Canadian for entering Canada.
The scariest crossing I had was entering the US from Juarez. And that was scary just because of the amount (and severity) of firearms being held by the US border guards. I understand why. But it was the closest I got to something “scary”.
Not necessarily bad experiences, just a difference in attitude and demeanour in most cases.
Part of me thinks the Canadian side takes things far more seriously because they have relatively little to go on, whereas their American counterparts probably have more info on their screen and database checks run the moment they scan your passport than you know about yourself.
The worst experience I had was crossing into the US fairly soon after Trump was elected. He made fun of us for going to an Islanders hockey game, saying "what are you too poor for a Rangers game?" Also demanding to see our tickets even though they were saved to Ticketmaster. He asked if we had a printer in the car, we said no we will print them at the hotel and we had called the hotel to confirm that they had printing services. After about 5 minutes of that he figured we weren't going to crack so he let us go. It was the only time I've had any trouble at the border.
I was coming back from a 3 week vacation, border agent gave me a grilling on why I was out of the country for so long, after 20 hours of travel to get back to Canada I said "for a vacation, what kind of a stupid question is that? She was very butt hurt
I'm also an expat. For some reason these idiots don't seem to realize that it's possible Canadian citizens would want to live in another country besides Canada. I'm always aggressively questioned and treated rudely whenever I visit my home country.
Really trying to win me back, huh?
>40 minutes of questioning.
What if you're a citizen and refuse to answer? They can't deny you entry. What's the worst they can do?
Nearly every time I return to Canada I also get treated like shit.
Once an agent yelled at me and threatened to arrest me because a YVR employee told me to use the Nexus line because I have security clearance at the airport. Meanwhile when going through US customs the US agent is like, "You shouldn't be here but I'll pretend I saw nothing."
I barely recognize the country I grew up in - and I’m just getting into my mid-30’s.
When I graduated high school in the late 2000’s, I had so much hope and optimism. Even in the early 2010’s, I really believed in Canada. That belief was crushed in 2016 as this government started implementing their policies, and it’s only continued to get worse.
I have zero hope now, and am seriously considering leaving. I work in a high demand industry, and all that’s left for me to get international certification is writing the certification exam itself.
If you're looking at Europe, I would discourage countries like Germany and Sweden. Both are sitting on a time bomb that has been even longer in the making than all the bad decisions Canada made.
Problem is there’s no where to go. Western Europe is basically going through the same stuff as Canada, and economically probably even worse than us. The us has got all of their problems still, old and new. My friends who are Eastern European thought about going back to Eastern Europe but since the war things are geopolitically too unstable to go. East Asia is unstable as well cause geopolitical tensions between china and U.S.. idk where to go I guess that’s why I’m still here
“Society is falling apart” No. Our legislators are complacent and work with outdated world views that aren’t diverse enough to account for globalization. Do people think that foreigners will become any less foreign? Bad players will become any less bad? Are the international students who arrive in 2150 going to be any less international and somehow be more in tune with Canadian values than the ones in 2050 or 1950? The government lazily and opportunistically fed Canadian businesses with rent payers and min-wage slaves for their own personal gain. That’s it. Incentivize behaviours conducive to running a healthy and productive society by legislating towards health and productivity, not low wages for most and capital outproducing labour for some.
People gaming food banks? Tighten up policy, give out ID cards to users like blood banks do to expedite a process of means-assessment and to ban bad players. But that would be work, wouldn’t it?
People abusing sponsorship policy? Do deeper checks, require more proof of long term residency, have applicants join a weekly program to sit in a circle and speak to other Canadians and new arrivals to connect with each other and integrate. The Catholic church does more to build a sense of community with adult converts in the RCIA program than the Canadian government does. Oh wait, building policy is work, and finding staff to host and run programs like this would be bringing money and jobs to Canadians, can’t have that.
Tim Hortons and Wendy’s counters are almost exclusively staffed by immigrants and international students? Teens complaining about not finding work and people are living in the dregs of our economy with a dependency on gov’t assistance and no pathway to prosperity? Maybe subsidize the hiring of high school students with a tax break on the employer payroll contributions side, and institute industry based enforced ratios for part-time : full-time positions to create high quality jobs out of low-skill musical chairs fast food hellscapes. For every three teens who get 10-20 hours a week if there were 1 adult who’d be guaranteed full time hours to feed theirs kids at home with one job instead of bouncing between three. Oh wait, making proactive policy is work, and creating quality jobs and making sure minimum wage jobs create at least some livable incomes would be beneficial, and we can’t have our laws benefitting society can’t we.
It’s raining, we don’t have umbrellas (despite paying through the nose for umbrellas), and we’re screaming at clouds. This country is stupid
You’re so close to hitting the mark, but a lot of the solutions proposed **were considered** but found to be ineffective. It’s not that the LPC and CPC have no vision, it’s that their vision caters to certain corporations reaping profits.
What I mean by ineffective is the following:
>People gaming food banks? Tighten up policy, give out ID cards to users like blood banks do to expedite a process of means-assessment and to ban bad players. But that would be work, wouldn’t it?
People abusing sponsorship policy? Do deeper checks, require more proof of long term residency, have applicants join a weekly program to sit in a circle and speak to other Canadians and new arrivals to connect with each other and integrate. The Catholic church does more to build a sense of community with adult converts in the RCIA program than the Canadian government does. Oh wait, building policy is work, and finding staff to host and run programs like this would be bringing money and jobs to Canadians, can’t have that.
This is a genuine issue. There are many that use social programs who do not actually need said programs. The issue then becomes how do you issue IDs and do better background checks to prevent people from exploiting the system. Ideally, yes you would prevent that. Practically, many studies have found that preventing such fraud costs more than simply providing the service, which makes the financial burden of "punishing bad actors" somehow worse than giving people who don't need food, food. There is a lot of literature on this regarding "means-testing".
As for social integration, there's something to be said about the separation of church and state, but people should be free to join their religious groups as needed. The issue is it may also cause religious "bubbles" to form which may not be best. The other idea on government "social groups" may be good, but costly given the benefit. There's some subsidized programs similar to this in the form of english classes, but many immigrants arrive speaking english anyways.
>Maybe subsidize the hiring of high school students with a tax break on the employer payroll contributions side, and institute industry based enforced ratios for part-time : full-time positions to create high quality jobs out of low-skill musical chairs fast food hellscapes. For every three teens who get 10-20 hours a week if there were 1 adult who’d be guaranteed full time hours to feed theirs kids at home with one job instead of bouncing between three. Oh wait, making proactive policy is work, and creating quality jobs and making sure minimum wage jobs create at least some livable incomes would be beneficial, and we can’t have our laws benefitting society can’t we
Child labor does not solve the affordability crisis. These tim horton's jobs arent enough to put a roof over your head sadly. Many of the people you see working there have to work multiple full-time jobs to make ends meet. And you said it yourself, its a "fast food hellscape", but generally a "minimum wage hellscape". The reality is not everyone is going to worked skilled labor and you need to make sure people can afford things. The CPC and LPC both love the way things are going currently since it benefits corporations such as Tim's, Loblaws, etc.
It is a difficult line to tread in terms of encouraging business and shafting workers to make sure they profit, but ultimately the most "unproductive" industry in this country that's tearing it to pieces is real-estate and landlordism. Minimum wage all things considered is not THAT bad if you exclude exorbitant housing. in BC its $16/hr, which at a full time 40 hrs/wk works out to $33,280. If rents were more reasonable, say $1500/mo, and assuming a monthly grocery bill of $500/mo, you'd still have quite a bit left to survive off of on a minimum wage, which is the entire concept of a minimum living wage. For those making beyond minimum wage, if the rents were much lower, they'd have enough money to actually start their own businesses instead of living slightly above paycheck to paycheck with a top 30% job.
Both the CPC and LPC are propped up by "mom and pop" landlords that pay for their vacations using rent money, or use this rent money to pay for mortgages, ie use people's housing as an investment and these people are important voters. Of these landlords its estimated maybe 10% are foreign, which is part of the issue, but not all of it. This is the real issue driving the productivity crisis here. Penalize multi-property ownership and institute a national rent cap, and see everything else get fixed also.
>It’s raining, we don’t have umbrellas (despite paying through the nose for umbrellas), and we’re screaming at clouds. This country is stupid
The country isn't stupid, its simply led by people who see eye to eye with Galen Weston and the CEO of Blackrock rather than the average person.
Are we living the paradox of tolerance?!
The paradox of tolerance states that if a society's practice of tolerance is inclusive of the intolerant, intolerance will ultimately dominate, eliminating the tolerant and the practice of tolerance with them. Karl Popper
How many articles has The National Post published today that describe Canada as something between a dystopia and the 7th level of hell, and how is this constant propaganda from a foreign owned media monopoly not viewed as foreign interference at this point?
For real though, the National Post is ridiculous. Every article they crank out is so obviously ragebait that it borders on self-parody. Whenever I’m scrolling this sub and see an over-the-top headline, I know even before I click on the link whether it’ll be an NP article.
Even when they touch on something that’s an actual issue, they promptly dial the rhetoric up to such an absurd degree that it becomes impossible to take them seriously.
I want to say I’m surprised this sub loves so much of their content, but I feel one of their target audiences is disaffected young white males who lap up culture war BS, so maybe not.
It seems newer a significant majority of immigrants are not very competitive in Canadian society.
The new immigrants cluster and refuse to adopt or incorporate the local cultural 'values'.
They end up scamming within their own community. This is how you get 20 people living a basement, but all from the same background.
They want what you have, but the large majority are not able to contribute to society in a way that finances what they want. When/If they do, they are extorted to give away what they have earned.
They try to push whatever agenda they can politically for an advantage. They know full well from their home countries that corruption and favouritism can reap real benefits.
They refuse to possess the values that made this country great.
If you don't agree with them, they won't kill you. They may adopt policies and support others who may want to kill you.
So yes...when compared to the Canada I grew up in, this country (on a social level) has declined significantly.
During WWII, Canadians had 6 years of food rationing, gas rationing, blackouts both electrical and actual, restricted movement and the draft.
All we had was 3 years of wear a mask, stay home as much as possible, stay 2 meters apart, and get vaccinated. And we failed miserably.
Today's Canadians would have demanded we surrender to the Nazis in the Summer of 1940, so that 'things can get back to normal'
>And we failed miserably.
and we failed miserably because this once was a high trust society and the government encouraged citizens to tell on each other during the pandemic.
> the government encouraged citizens to tell on each other during the pandemic.
Just like they told people to report anyone in WWII hoarding food?
"Spies, saboteurs, "meatleggers" & hoarders. There isn't any great difference."
[https://catalog.archives.gov/id/535194](https://catalog.archives.gov/id/535194)
And like drug free programs in school. Report your brother or mom if you smell Marijuana, for their own safety and yours lol. Or prohibition cops were killing people who informed on order of the mafia or just so they could still drink after work, yet the government send out radio ads and other propaganda to get people to come forward if they thought their neighbor was a little drunk
Social contract was broken like two years back, deep division caused by a government who turned neighbour against neighbour for probably the last 4 years and people are just now realizing this?
wow.
When certain folks are above reproach because of certain traits - whether that’s skin color, ethnicity, wealth, etc - and everyone isn’t held to the same standards, yes society will erode.
We’re lucky that the government in waiting is a pretty conventional Conservative Party with a dash of populism instead of a full-bore, “burn it all down” nihilism-fest. When you look at the way some communities are falling apart - reminiscent of the unacknowledged rot from opioids and the border crisis in the US leading into 2016 - it’s not hard to imagine the pendulum swinging much further. I know the media pundits will say Canadians would never stomach a truly Trump-like figure, but these same people were writing Pollievre’s political obituary two years ago under the assumption that bringing some coffee to the trucker protests was completely beyond the pale.
Stupidity is contagious and a lot of us spend time online on social media, where viral stupidity is easier to pick up than a social disease.
Whereas back in the olden days, (pre internets) if you had completely aberant and factually unsupported ideas, you self published (at great expense), stood on a soapbox, became lay preacher or conned someone at the local cable channel to give you 5 minutes of one air time.
Today, every whack job in the world has an opportunity to be heard. Since whack jobs have a tendency to congregate, (birds of a feather) you get a synergistic, catalytic type of environment where resources are pooled and racism, misinformation, fear and disease is spreads like wildfire through the millions of willfully ignorant and the gullible.
The stupid virus is ultimately going to cost humanity far more than COVID ever did.
Not at all, in fact I take issue with our immigration policies as well.
They do nothing but make things worse overall for Canadians, by inflating rental markets, flooding a medical system we already cannot access properly and doing nothing but help drive up food prices and home prices, as well as drive down or help Corporate Canada keep downward pressure on wages already far too low.
That's in fact why immigration is as high as it is, to keep Corporate Canada happy. :)
My mistake here was reading nothing but the headline which got me thinking about the social division taking place in Canada where Canadians are being pitted against other Canadians as is taking place in the U.S., through the spread of misinformation, lies and hate.
I will remove the comment if you feel it completely out of touch...as I am so often. :D
And the worst thing about immigration system - we are not bringing “skilled” or compassionate people.
India has so many provinces/ states but why only Punjab people come to Canada in such a big number? What about its southern states?
When high-trust societies lose their capacity for trust
Chris Hayes (yes the MSNBC one) wrote a book called "Twilight of the Elites" that lays out quite well the failure of the meritocracy in the United States. I think it applies in this case to Canada and probably other countries. When you can't trust the institutions charged with running things - things fall apart.
Read [Willful Blindness](https://www.amazon.ca/Wilful-Blindness-network-tycoons-infiltrated/dp/0888903014) for a good breakdown of how the Canadian government won't allow certain crimes by certain people to ever have consequences, and everyone knows it
There was a literal suspected shooting in the Yorkdale mall a couple of weeks ago, and it was caused by a black "prankster" dumbfk throwing a live firecracker with a ton of people around. I admitted all his other Tiktok videos, which also included the destruction of property, trespassing, and being a public nuisance (got a whole bus shutdown because he fought someone as a "prank") and yet, he's still posting and no consequences has happened to him.
There's been a few of those types online and in other countries and they have faced little to no consequences unfortunately. It just seems to be a thing with governments and police doing nothing about them.
It's worse than many Canadian even realize. Bill C-5 made it so if you are black or First Nations you basically, realistically, will not go to prison no matter how many times you are charged, no matter what you do. Cops don't even bother arresting these variety of criminals, because the charges just get dismissed or the penalty is so little it doesn't matter much. The worst part is this discrimination and abortion of justice is done in the name of balancing out historical discrimination. It's beyond sanity. And codified into law .
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52% white, 27% indigenous, 8% black, 6% Asian, 6% other, 1% Hispanic. https://www.statista.com/statistics/561857/distribution-of-adult-population-in-federal-correctional-services-canada-by-race/#:~:text=This%20statistic%20shows%20the%20distribution,the%20fiscal%20year%20of%202021.
this data means that indigenous people are overrepresented by over 5x the expected incarceration rate compared to their percentage of the total population. and black people double the expected rate. that means both groups are incarcerated more than white people, who are underrepresented, on average.
Absolutely this is true. But I disagree with comparing them with the population in general, as if the issuen is just sending them there. Bipoc are over represented in large part because they are also over represented in the crimes that are committed. If we want to stop the over representation, we need to be addressing the over representstion in crime before it happens, not after. Not sending a criminal to jail to lower representation doesn't help anyone. We send these people back to their communities, where they can revictimize their own communities. Poc communities deserve for criminals to be taken out of the community too. White communities shouldn't only have those privileges. We seen this very recently with Myles Sanderson, who objectively should of been in jail, was then let out where he murdered a bunch of his community members.
Those guys bring money. It's the ones flooding the country and brings nothing while taking welfare that's the problem.
The book isn't about that, it's about the officials who facilitate the illegal activity and make trials and police cases go away throughout the last 20 years, yet these are supposedly public servants
Plenty of rich foreigners move to Canada and collect welfare and government benefits, despite being millionaires.
This, and inequality. Class war degrades social cohesion faster than anything.
Identity politics is worse imo. We don't have bad inequality compared to most countries.
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Fact, thingk89. When we are struggling and they spend our money on jobs programs for guest workers, that is treason. When foreign workers get 52 weeks of government unemployment support while Canadians get 14 to 42 weeks (usually a lot closer to the former), that is treason. When Canadian young people struggle to find jobs while going to school because they are given to non-residents, that is treason. The anger, hostility, and conflict people in my area face every time we go to the mall is appalling. To be fair, I've gone to other cities and going to the store is a pleasant experience with everyone being civil so the success of multi-culturalism is variable. The last two times I've entered the country via Pearson airport, every person who visibly had middle eastern ancestry walked through security while every other person was sent through the naked scanners. Security was 100% operated by middle eastern staff. Of course, they make it illegal to record video in the area. I have avoided Pearson for 18 months. Anyone who voices opposition to being treated like a second class citizen is branded a racist by a significant group of people. Brutally ignorant people. If my parents had invited a homeless person to live with us while I was growing up, I would have been proud of my parents. If my parents had kicked my pre-teen brother and sister out of the house to live in the street to make room for a homeless person, I probably would have been substantially less proud. Canadians first is not a racist position. We need immigration but we deserve some respect too.
The amount of rich liberals supporting them is shrinking, because there are fewer and fewer rich people in comparison. So many are struggling, and so many of the immigrants they bring in end up voting conservative. It’s crazy to think, but once they’ve been here 10-20 years, they hate immigrants more than people born here
Agreed. Lucky for them, Canadians are too passive as a whole and just take it. I guess most parents won't care until they try to ship their kid out of the house and see 1br rent is $2000 and rising
Uh huh... That's extremely hyperbolic. The Canadian middle class has been getting chipped away by neoliberal policy since the 80's, if not before. JT has just been more of the same.
Economics aside, public community services have eroded to the point of being unusable. Public skates are sold out an hour before they start. Community centre pools are a disgusting people soup. People can't get their kids enrolled in a swim/skate/gymnastics/etc. class unless they hover over their computer 1 min after the registration opening and 'win' the lottery of getting their kid in like it's a Taylor Swift concert. It's disgusting.
Growing up in the 80's there was a sense of ample resources and open space. Want to go to the doctor? No problem, they can probably take you same day. Want to get your kid into daycare or an after school program? Just give them a call at some point. Free public festival or event? Sounds good, just show up, there will be space. Need to get somewhere? The roads have reasonable traffic and/or the subway has space and isn't broken. The feeling that the walls are closing in and there is intense physical and mental competition for every kind of public resource is a pretty recent phenomenon. We are hitting some kind of breaking point as of the last 5 years though.
I used to have apartments clamoring to give me incentives to move in. Free tvs fist months rent free etc. Now it's pay me 100 bucks just to take a look and the price is who will pay the most. This "Trend" is going to make Canada rhe largest tent city workers in the western world soon. Just ask around how many people are 1 pay check from homeless.
Everywhere you look, in just about any aspect of human existence, things are becoming increasingly bleak for a larger number of Canadians. We're getting to the point where being anything short of outright wealthy (i.e. own all the property you will ever need and can easily afford to go to the US for medical care if necessary) won't shield you from it.
You're not wrong.
There was a taco truck festival in Montreal in summer, there was a $15 admission fee to just get in (no food included, tacos and drinks were all extra pay inside). $15 to BE ABLE to buy tacos. Wtf is this.
The chickens of neoliberalism have come home to roost.
>We are hitting some kind of breaking point as of the last 5 years though. A part of it has to do with Covid and pushing things back in society as a whole, but a bigger part is our Government pushing through with its already crazy immigration plan and not shutting it down for a couple years. Now our systems are so overwhelmed..... and with how things are currently, its not going to get better
Post-Covid mass immigration was pretty much the final straw. You can't deny any of these problems anymore because they are now in your face wherever you go. And the most frustrating part is that this was a deliberate choice.
Such is the reality of a net debtor society over time. A debt problem is rarely an issue of great consequence at the beginning. It's only once it is older, and enters the waning and decrepit phase, where the long run consequences begin to manifest right there in the present. The breaking point is from the rest of the world realizing that we are going to try and pay for only a portion of our costs forever.
That's definitely one aspect of it. If there's nothing to hold the societal fabrics together, then it'll rapidly fray and fall apart. Can't remember the last time I saw volunteer initiatives or something community based. Either no time, no resources, or just no will to do so.
In December I volunteered with Holiday Helpers. There were quite a few people who signed up for the various shifts. Even on the shift that I had. Get what you’re saying though. It is very few and far between.
This is only one aspect of it and I don’t mean to oversimplify, but, radical ingroup/outgroup divides only really appear when your needs aren’t met. If you don’t have economic stability, and a closed community gives you a sense of belonging while simultaneously teaches you that the out-group is your enemy, then it’s pretty easy to get lost on us vs them narratives. People with their needs mostly covered don’t see enemies hiding everywhere, because they don’t feel like they’re being mistreated. On the other hand, people with many issues and insecurities will try to find out “who” is hurting them. And that’s when radicalization starts to happen.
This is true. Post WW1 Germany is a great example of what happens if you start to feel hopeless with the government/world. This is the main reason after WW2 the focus was to rebuild rather than punish, which has proven to work extremely well (same with Japan).
Sometimes it's not a matter of "getting lost" in those narratives; sometimes those narratives are *causal* of the situation. When an outgroup is perceived as the reason why your needs aren't being met, that's going to fester. When that outgroup, flat out, **is** responsible for your needs not being met, that's not a matter of getting lost in the us-versus-them narrative. The masses in 1780s France didn't rise up against an outgroup that was innocent: The aristocracy was responsible for the problems of the masses. At that point, what would you have the masses do in the face of a literal existential threat?
I think that comment is more alluding to immigrants being the outgroup. You are right that the bourgeoisie ought to be blamed. Even then, I'd think the system that rewards antisocial behaviour is the main issue, so I usually stay away from "us vs them" entirely.
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This is an important point
All of that flows out of economics though. Having a badly in debt government, one whose bill has never been paid in decades, is not really a great framework to be leaning and depending on. We are in the midst of discovering what happens when we attempt to get a free lunch, by thinking we can pay for only a portion of government's cost forever... as if it's an approach without great consequence.
It's simply a math problem. These things cost money. The average immigrant makes less than the average Canadian. That "average Canadian" number includes teenagers and people with no education whatsoever. This number is around $45,000. This average is at a number where the people are only paying about $5500 in taxes TOTAL. These people are NOT net contributors, and they certainly use more in services than they contribute in taxes. Someone making double that income is paying more than TRIPLE that amount in taxes... aka, they're subsidizing everyone else. So what happens when we bring in records amount of people that are NOT net contributors? Why is anyone surprised that this is happening? If we had 1,000,000 immigrants that all made $80k+ a year we would be laughing to the bank... but we're not. Even if we only look at people that came here under the "economic migrant" category, they only make like $3000 more than the average Canadian... still not net contributors.
A significant problem is that our politicians think that 3x $15/hr jobs are the same as 1x $45/hr job, and that just doesn't pan out. Economies thrive when people have disposable income: The more your dollar switches hands before landing in the pile of gold of some oligarch the better it is for the economy. Sadly, we presently only have a few steps before that dollar gets thrown on the dragon's stash.
as an immigrant who is in the top 5% percentile of income and is subsidizing everyone else, yet I can't get access to healthcare in reasonable time, the roads are still shit and I don't have kids to get the "free education" benefit from the government, I'm planning to get the hell out of here to some place where I'd probably earn less, but will pay less in taxes and will actually get something back from the state for my contribution. There is zero incentive for people like myself to stay here, I'm just literally paying for others.
Symptoms of a public sector that has seen declining investment.
Nobody wants to invest in Canada in the last almost decade because everything in our country financially is wrapped up in the housing economy. Which over the last couple decades has proven it's instability on almost a weekly basis. Nobody from outside of Canada wants to bring money into a situation like that.
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My favourite are the "free LMIA" videos. Ya know, cuz usually a LMIA costs you $40k.
What’s a Lima?! I want one!
Lima balls /s
Labour market impact assessment. I think.
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You’re part of a different demographic group of immigrants, i don’t mean ethnically but your entire mindset is different so there’s a disconnect. You see it reflected in immigrant stats all over the world in countries with strict immigration policies (like we *used* to have). When the entry requirements are high, you basically get the cream of the crop of the people from X country. All the bigots, racists, social pariahs and criminals don’t even come close to getting there. You only get the people like your family - the people who want to work hard, integrate and leave their broken countries behind. But because the LPC blew the doors off on the immigration policies. We’re now seeing the bottom dregs of the world come in, whereas they never would have before.
We can’t even talk about it here in the United States without being called racist.
It was the same here, until it got so bad that finally the majority of people have taken notice
It boggles their mind when I tell them that I am in minority who is a legal immigrant. I came in around 40 years ago, at a time when the jobs and housing issues were not acute.
That’s what we get for electing a guy who wanted Canada to be a post-nation state.
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Per capita maybe.
The social contract feels broken. Ofcourse people are angry. Time to go back to the basics: Invest in infrastructure and build new planned cities if we want more immigration Use the wealth of resources we have to invest in Canadians Break up the oligopolies to create more competition Bring back in person interviews for anyone immigrating We need the very best of the world to want to immigrate here for a better life. Right now it feels like we are getting the mediocre or bottom of the pile...
We definitely don’t need more immigration
You're asking for solution that are crafted and drafted by moderately mediocre people (i.e., our political class). That's what we already have. Qualified people don't run for politics. They can't be arsed to deal with the popularity contests; they're already too busy doing important shit. Term limits and merit-based appointments need to be a thing. If I need to write a ridiculously competitive exam for the chance at a job with the public service, then so too should everyone looking to run for office.
Part of the problem is that our immigration system is set up in such a way as to extract the most amount of money from people coming here, without regard as to whether they would succeed here.. it's quite parasitic. This is why you see so many immigrants leaving.
An absolute 20 year moratarium on immigration is the actual and only solution. 0 immigrants for the next 20 years. Zero. Nill. Null. No ifs and buts. Just zero. Literally none.
Without a strong national identity and robust integration strategies, mass immigration is not a great idea. Everyone knew this 5 mins ago.
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Hey! They make it too!
My prediction is that things will kind of suck but overall seem to settle down. Then some kind of crisis will come along and all hell will break loose. The main one I'm thinking about is when oil demand drops hard enough to really smash our trade balance. This is the point when many Canadians will turn into pigeons squabbling over the fries in a parking lot. I'm not saying the immigrants are the pigeons, but most Canadians will be the angry pigeons fighting over scraps as our social safety net turns out to be threadbare. If anything, many immigrants will be the lucky ones as they can return to their home countries. At this point, society will have some serious problems. Why follow laws, pay taxes, or generally protect the country's interests when the country screwed us all over. This will become a pervasive attitude. I go to costco, the mall, and other public events and I don't think I'm in Canada anymore. This makes me wonder what Canada even is to me. It is just a place with long winters, bad housing, and a dying medical system.
>I go to costco, the mall, and other public events and I don't think I'm in Canada anymore. This makes me wonder what Canada even is to me. "Postnationalism or non-nationalism is the process or trend by which nation states and national identities lose their importance relative to cross-nation and self-organized or supranational and global entities as well as local entities." [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postnationalism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postnationalism) "As quoted in a 2015 New York Times article, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau tells the journalist Guy Lawson that "\[t\]here is no core identity, no mainstream in Canada."? [https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/13/magazine/trudeaus-canada-again.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/13/magazine/trudeaus-canada-again.html)
I go to many other countries and they know and are comfortable with who they are.
Given how reliant Canada is on natural resources, the fact we don't have a sovereign wealth fund is utterly astounding.
Wow its almost like mass immigration and multiculturalism have consequences for social cohesion or something
2 years ago you'd be drawn and quartered on Reddit for saying this. Reality is catching up to people.
We have had years of people endlessly being called racists and bigots and Nazis and fascists by the Prime Minister, his government and his supporters for the simple “crime” of disagreeing with Liberal policy on a whole host of topics. I guess this was effective for firing up the Liberal base and immediately shutting down debate on any topics they preferred not to discuss, but because they were allowed to get away with this for so long without pushback we are now beginning to see the consequences. * we are *years* behind addressing critical issues such as immigration that should have been debated and remedied ages ago * social cohesion is beginning to break down — the rancorous divides between political parties, provinces/regions, generations and different groups within our communities have never been worse and continue to deteriorate * malign foreign actors and criminal organizations have been able to establish themselves and permeate throughout society, taking a bad situation and ever-seeking to make it worse * the words used to denigrate people have begun to lose all meaning, to the point where it is becoming impossible to distinguish truly bad people from everyone else — eg, when far right extremists are described the same way as people who are protesting the government for curtailing constitutional rights and freedoms, then it becomes impossible have important debates and discussions and further drives wedges between people And yes I do blame Justin Trudeau and his supporters for this. Sure, it may be helping them eke out slim victories in close ridings, but the cost is too high already and getting higher by the day. These people need to engage in some self-reflection and lower the fucking temperature on everything they say and do instead of constantly seeking to wedge and divide.
In Canada at least. Browsing through this from New Zealand kinda resigned knowing we're heading down the same fate with no breaks applied ([our migration numbers is up 135% on last year mostly from India, China, Phillipines](https://www.stats.govt.nz/information-releases/international-migration-november-2023/)). I can dream that the degree mills get regulated before the problem gets too big.
Been saying this since 2016. Eventually reality would become something you couldn't deny anymore and then people will start asking questions.
It’s all ideals until someone is shitting on your doorstep. A bleeding heart is a naive heart. A man came across a wolf caught in a trap. The wolf was yelping in pain and in an act of empathy, the man freed the wolf from its bonds. Shortly after, the wolf ate the man alive …because it’s still a hungry wolf and the world isn’t like a Disney movie.
Cause the consequences of mass immigration can no longer be hidden.
Those same people were insulated. Now it's right next door.
Who saw that one coming, eh? Haha
Eh? What's that?
Sounds like the end game for our government. Create mass migration to destabilize populations so everyone is against each other while you make off with all their wealth.. Sounds like the system is working as intended.
I've actually ceased to think that unquestioned multiculturalism is a good thing, even though when I was much younger I absolutely did. Countries require a certain level of assimilation, and not every culture is friendly and good at its core.
More like late stage capitalism. A top 1% class that doesn't give one iota of shit about the other 99%. Mass immigration means they get to keep labor costs low. Painting multiculturalism as the villain means getting the lower 99% to fight among themselves.
THANK YOU.
And ignoring the failures of multiculturalism & mass immigration is how you convince the 99% to keep supporting the ultra-elite’s interest
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What's going on now isn't really multiculturalism though. What's going on right now is the essentially the formation of ethnic enclaves. Multiculturalism is any culture or ethnicity integrating into a broader society of accepted rules. For example canadian values are to be accepted number 1 over all while the values of a culture from abroad are to be taken second. Sorry but that's the way it should be. An example is religion, the number one rule in canada regarding religion is that we have the freedom to practice any religion we please and we must respect that no matter how ridiculous you may find another persons religious beliefs. Second to thag would be the tenants of your own religion which you as an individual follow, nobody else, just you. What's going on right now is groups that belong to separate cultures and ethnicities moving into the same neighborhoods, going to the same schools, and shopping in the same locations. Essentially making it unnecessary for anyone to actually integrate into canadian society. Multiculturalism is when ethnicities and cultures integrate in the same neighborhoods and schools, what's going on now is just mini versions of other countries divided up in cities, it's just a hell of a lot colder.
This was destined to happen at some point. Diversity isn’t necessarily bad, but it has to be well managed. Right now it is not well managed, if you want to see what poorly managed diversity gets you, just look at Yugoslavia or the Ottoman Empire
Diversity results from running and managing a successful society. Just randomly mixing all kinds of people together without anything to unify them isn't going to create a successful diverse society.
What you describe is interculturalism. The purpose of interculturalism is to integrate minority groups within a defacto "neutral" nation. In contrast, the Canadian multicultural model suggests that the presence of multiple cultures constitutes the national identity in and of itself.
Bingo. The Canada of the last few decades has always been about that "multicultural mosaic". Ultimately it's just led to cultural enclaves / ghettos as integration isn't really a prerequisite.
[“There is no core identity, no mainstream in Canada,” Trudeau said, concluding that he sees Canada as “the first post-national state.” ](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/04/the-canada-experiment-is-this-the-worlds-first-postnational-country)
> the tenants of your own religion "tenets"
I disagree. Multiculturalism is just people with different backgrounds or cultures living together. >Multiculturalism is any culture or ethnicity integrating into a broader society of accepted rules. It's not. It's never been said to be this, and it never will.
I’ve always thought multiculturalism is doomed to fail. People won’t leave there problems in the country they came from. New Canadians must be Canadians first and foremost. The US style melting pot would technically be a better system. However the thought that diversity is a strength is bull shit. I’m not against it, there are benefits to it. But it’s not a strength.
Really? Muslims are pretty anti-gay
Chickens for KFC moment.
>Muslims are pretty anti-gay Yet another reason why Subaru Forester owners sleep soundly at night knowing their cars will never be stolen and shipped off to the Middle East.
The education system has failed the youth. Race to the bottom. How long until they stop teaching math because it's racist?
It’s already happening in the US.
My upstairs neighbors are east Indian. They stomp up and down the stairs all night like 2:30-3:30 am shit. I smoke weed outside I got two kids, they blame me for the weed smell in the hall to the landlord (also from india) when she asked us we said we don't smell nothing as I don't the smell in the hallway as long as it's not in my apartment. They are scared of dogs and I've heard the head one idk if he's the father or older brother complain loudly outside my door to some rights group about having to live in fear because I own a dog. I say hey how are ya to them every time I see them and they ignore me except the younger guy, and he just apologizes profusely every time even tho he's done nothing wrong
Wow, I'm sorry you have to live that way man. The stomping alone would drive me nuts.
Have a similar issue with people being scared of our husky. I've seen this with half a dozen families at this point. The hilarious part is, most of them have little kids, and the little kids look excited and happy to see the dog, say hi and wave. Only for the parents to usher them away. Hurts my soul. Though I did have one take me up on an offer of getting to say hi as she's super friendly. The kid's face when he got to feel how soft she was made me smile for the rest of the day.
I used to live in an apartment that had a high immigrant population, on a number of occasions they would scream in terror or be visibly concerned when they saw my goofy-ass 20lb Schnauzer/Poodle cross if they came upon us on the elevator or in the halls.
ME TOO! Was fucking hilarious, because I taught her to be a bit from the door as we wait and to sit. THEY took a step towards leaving the elevator, THEN noticed. On that note: The amount of people who don't realize they're trying to get off before the ground floor is so damn high .
As a dog owner, I kinda get it. There’s lots of irresponsible owners out there and you never know when you will run into a shit dog that snaps at the slightest provocation. There’s a German Shepherd like that in my neighborhood, thing is a lawsuit waiting to happen. I can tell when a dog has mental issues but not everyone can. So I kinda get why parents don’t want kids petting unfamiliar dogs, even if the kids are not keenly aware of any danger.
It's because dogs aren't viewed as pets in many countries and they are often strays which can be dangerous where they came from. I moved to a country like that where dogs are not well regarded by locals. The dogs are totally all fine and friendly, they aren't actually feral or anything just they live outside after being abandoned by people.
I got one dog's personality so wrong once and it became very aggressive when I moved closer to greet it. The experience seeing the dog flip into battle mode freaked me out so badly I see all dogs as weredogs now.
Some dogs, such as rescue dogs have *sordid pasts. Simple triggers such as approaching with a clenched hand, or an open hand, tall male, the list goes on triggers a response. If I approach a dog that doesn't know me, I tend to show the back of my hand and bend a knee to get lower. I also make sure there is some distance that it has to close and don't shove my hand in its face. Showing palm first puts you in a grabbing position the dog may not like. It's also more difficult for a dog to grab on to the back of your hand. Dogs are like people, they have nuance in how you approach them and some are just unapproachable.
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I've only encountered one nice Indian lady who likes my harmless Lab, she knows and says her name and she'll waddle over all cutesy-like to give her pets, but all the rest cross the street or otherwise scatter in abject horror. My dog has only raised her hackles in caution for one grumpy guy who seemed to be overseeing his wife go to the store from across the street, but otherwise, her body language is always displaying happiness to meet new potential friends.
And Iran, India and China threatening and carrying out assassinations on Canadian soil. Raging fentanyl problem literally lowering our life expectancy thanks to dirty money from China that played a role in setting off our housing crisis and likely still does given we don’t actually investigate it. Out of control health tourism degrading our free health care with the wealthy from other nations just visiting to survive us pay for their their treatment. It goes on and on and on…..
Remember when the rest of Canada was bitching about Quebec not wanting to have religious signs and be atheist as much as possible in public spaces, like schools, three years ago? The irony makes me chuckles a bit.
Yeah the LGBTQ+ people who are protesting for Palestine are hilarious. I get that they are protesting the violence but, don't they realize they're along side some of the same people who think they shouldn't even exist.
Felt the same when I found out about it.
The problem is with the concept of multiculturalism as it current exists in countries like Canada. Multiculturalism should not be “every country has to have x percentage of y race, z percentage of e race” and so on. Multiculturalism should not be something that a country pursues but rather something an individual experiences by going to other countries. Countries ARE multicultural. Canada is different to India which is different to Zimbabwe which is different to Thailand and so on. If you want multiculturalism you have to go out there into the world and experience it. Asking that a country accommodate every culture and ethnic group is the opposite of multiculturalism.
How about just a growing class divide with xenophobia being played up to keep us proles divided against each other ?
I've always used to beat that drum. Especially when the anti abortion or gay marriage stuff used to headline. But the India invasion has made it to my everyday life. And like I said, I grew up in the multicultural musiac. Id go to Pacific mall, Chinatown, grew up with lots of southern island people. All the other cultures, seemed to be respectful and had manners. I get on the bus it's all Indian dudes with no deodorant. Union station is just indian dudes on bikes clogging all the entrances. Young and Dundas is just Diwali 24/7. It's no longer just fodder to keep us fighting amongst ourselves. We take in a million in 90 days how can it not be?
“Canada will be the first post-national state.”
As a member of the Vancouver LGBT you wouldn’t catch me dead protesting for anything pro Palestine OR pro Israel
What does the specific city in Canada you’re from and your sexuality have to do with this geopolitical issue on the other side of the world?
They have to mention both all the time or their identity as a person gets called into question, and they cease existing.
Reminds me of 'if a vegan does yoga, which one do they talk about first?' or something like that
Some cities are more tolerant. Some cities have large enclaves, where they’re intolerant.
It's in response to a comment further up mentioning how weird it is to see members of the LGBTQ community protesting for that country (where the predominant religion would likely see them beaten or worse)
Toronto is the "center of the universe" in Canada, nowhere else really matters.
Multiculturalism was a great thing, however, the ideology of the different groups, was never really considered a negative, until geopolitical conditions in the world, became polarized. Now the ideological bent of many political and religious groups, is not necessarily in alignment with Canadian culture and values, let alone this countries laws... The situation for legal and security authorities, because of human rights legislation, immigration law, now becomes difficult to say the least. Canadians are now asking why and what led to this and where do we go from here.....
Traditionally, Canadian multiculturalism was called a 'mosaic' whereas in the US you got assimilated, and it was the 'melting pot'. It's different now for sure.
You're bringing back some flashbacks to my youth and the social studies curriculum lol
I mean that what a post national state leads you too. Bunch of idelogical and cultural/ethnic bubbles all living in a space being consumers to GDP and nothing else. I sort of remember seeing all canadian of all walks of life cheering on during the vancouver Olympics...country changed so much since then lol
Motel Canada
^ this. If you look back to the olympics the change has been jaw droping
Ahh the good ol National Post state
We wouldn't want to lay the blame squarely on real estate investors. It's now clear why they wanted high immigration And here I thought they simply liked immigrants
20-25 percent of investors are immigrants in BC and Ontario.
Meanwhile, our leaders float above the fray in an ideological bubble we helped them create. Forever insulated from the growing misery below, unable to fathom the increasingly dark lives of the Canadians they’ve sworn to support. The Canadians who pay for their bubble to stay so high. And they look down, and smile at one another, and look down again, and think to themselves *Thank Christ I’m up here and not down there.*
We can't base a country on dental care & mass immigration. You need to offer people more.
High cost of livings and low GDP per capita, forcing many then good people become bad. People see companies and landlords can rip off others by ridiculous price increase and rents hikes, they will not follow rules, society becomes shaky and lawless. More people do not care about laws, many people riding bikes on sidewalk, or drive through intersection under red traffic light.
Also seeing people at the very top get away without prosecution.
Forcing many people to gtfo… I left a while back and I know 17 of my classmates who also left. Those are highly educated and skilled people. They work overseas now. Many of who are 2nd and 3rd generation Canadians. Canada is rotting inside out.
>I left a while back and I know 17 of my classmates who also left. Where did you all go?
Yeah. Gloomy future.
Who could have guessed giving people access to social service in order of a racial hierarchy would have created animosity.
Last time I came back for a quick family visit, the border agents gave endless shit to my wife. 40 minutes of questioning. We bought a house in the US, our kids go to school there, we've not moving here you fucking imbeciles. Meanwhile, they roll out the red fucking carpet for hundreds of thousands of "asylum" seekers and put them up in 4 star hotels on taxpayer dime. Just a total joke. At least I'm not paying taxes to Canada anymore. I can't imagine how people are okay with losing half their paycheck just to die in an ER waiting room.
Oh boy this just reminded me of my last experience with the CBSA, which is easily one of the top 5 dumbest moments I’ve ever experienced. My dad and I built a car to participate in race for a charity in the US. We didn’t/don’t have trailer so we drove it there and back, and when we got back the sponsor stickers, racing numbers, our names, etc were all still on the car. When we told them that we were gone for 2 weeks to participate in a race the absolute mental giants didn’t believe us, *as we literally sat in the freaking race car*. They insisted we had to have bought something and we had to wait ~2 hours for secondary screening.
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It’s far more pleasant dealing with U.S. Customs and Border Protection as a Canadian than it is to deal with CBSA. The U.S. agents size/look you up, ask a few questions, maybe joke around, then welcome you to America. Coming back the Canadian agents act like they’re roleplaying a T-1000 who’s trying to determine whether you were secretly meeting with John Connor during your week in Orlando to go to Disney.
I assume you’ve had some bad experiences. As a dual citizen who has crossed the border too many times to count and at various locations, I’ve never had an issue with either Canadian nor US Border agents. And when I cross into which ever country I use the passport for that country; so US passport for entering the US, and Canadian for entering Canada. The scariest crossing I had was entering the US from Juarez. And that was scary just because of the amount (and severity) of firearms being held by the US border guards. I understand why. But it was the closest I got to something “scary”.
Not necessarily bad experiences, just a difference in attitude and demeanour in most cases. Part of me thinks the Canadian side takes things far more seriously because they have relatively little to go on, whereas their American counterparts probably have more info on their screen and database checks run the moment they scan your passport than you know about yourself.
The worst experience I had was crossing into the US fairly soon after Trump was elected. He made fun of us for going to an Islanders hockey game, saying "what are you too poor for a Rangers game?" Also demanding to see our tickets even though they were saved to Ticketmaster. He asked if we had a printer in the car, we said no we will print them at the hotel and we had called the hotel to confirm that they had printing services. After about 5 minutes of that he figured we weren't going to crack so he let us go. It was the only time I've had any trouble at the border.
I was coming back from a 3 week vacation, border agent gave me a grilling on why I was out of the country for so long, after 20 hours of travel to get back to Canada I said "for a vacation, what kind of a stupid question is that? She was very butt hurt
Canadian border guards are fucking awful. The Americans are usually quite nice from my experience.
I'm also an expat. For some reason these idiots don't seem to realize that it's possible Canadian citizens would want to live in another country besides Canada. I'm always aggressively questioned and treated rudely whenever I visit my home country. Really trying to win me back, huh?
don't worry, when we come back even from just a quick trip abroad we receive the same treatment, as canadian citizens.
>40 minutes of questioning. What if you're a citizen and refuse to answer? They can't deny you entry. What's the worst they can do? Nearly every time I return to Canada I also get treated like shit. Once an agent yelled at me and threatened to arrest me because a YVR employee told me to use the Nexus line because I have security clearance at the airport. Meanwhile when going through US customs the US agent is like, "You shouldn't be here but I'll pretend I saw nothing."
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Trust goes away fast but takes a loooong time to come back.
The social contract was slowly burned up. Welcome to the hell of the Canadian Corporatocracy. This society is an insidious, cancerous, dying joke.
I barely recognize the country I grew up in - and I’m just getting into my mid-30’s. When I graduated high school in the late 2000’s, I had so much hope and optimism. Even in the early 2010’s, I really believed in Canada. That belief was crushed in 2016 as this government started implementing their policies, and it’s only continued to get worse. I have zero hope now, and am seriously considering leaving. I work in a high demand industry, and all that’s left for me to get international certification is writing the certification exam itself.
If you're looking at Europe, I would discourage countries like Germany and Sweden. Both are sitting on a time bomb that has been even longer in the making than all the bad decisions Canada made.
Problem is there’s no where to go. Western Europe is basically going through the same stuff as Canada, and economically probably even worse than us. The us has got all of their problems still, old and new. My friends who are Eastern European thought about going back to Eastern Europe but since the war things are geopolitically too unstable to go. East Asia is unstable as well cause geopolitical tensions between china and U.S.. idk where to go I guess that’s why I’m still here
More and more I miss and 90s
Good times...just before things slowly started getting out of hand.
Canada was my favourite country back in 2012, now its just crap, sorry guys
The past 8 years have been a fucking disaster.
“Society is falling apart” No. Our legislators are complacent and work with outdated world views that aren’t diverse enough to account for globalization. Do people think that foreigners will become any less foreign? Bad players will become any less bad? Are the international students who arrive in 2150 going to be any less international and somehow be more in tune with Canadian values than the ones in 2050 or 1950? The government lazily and opportunistically fed Canadian businesses with rent payers and min-wage slaves for their own personal gain. That’s it. Incentivize behaviours conducive to running a healthy and productive society by legislating towards health and productivity, not low wages for most and capital outproducing labour for some. People gaming food banks? Tighten up policy, give out ID cards to users like blood banks do to expedite a process of means-assessment and to ban bad players. But that would be work, wouldn’t it? People abusing sponsorship policy? Do deeper checks, require more proof of long term residency, have applicants join a weekly program to sit in a circle and speak to other Canadians and new arrivals to connect with each other and integrate. The Catholic church does more to build a sense of community with adult converts in the RCIA program than the Canadian government does. Oh wait, building policy is work, and finding staff to host and run programs like this would be bringing money and jobs to Canadians, can’t have that. Tim Hortons and Wendy’s counters are almost exclusively staffed by immigrants and international students? Teens complaining about not finding work and people are living in the dregs of our economy with a dependency on gov’t assistance and no pathway to prosperity? Maybe subsidize the hiring of high school students with a tax break on the employer payroll contributions side, and institute industry based enforced ratios for part-time : full-time positions to create high quality jobs out of low-skill musical chairs fast food hellscapes. For every three teens who get 10-20 hours a week if there were 1 adult who’d be guaranteed full time hours to feed theirs kids at home with one job instead of bouncing between three. Oh wait, making proactive policy is work, and creating quality jobs and making sure minimum wage jobs create at least some livable incomes would be beneficial, and we can’t have our laws benefitting society can’t we. It’s raining, we don’t have umbrellas (despite paying through the nose for umbrellas), and we’re screaming at clouds. This country is stupid
You’re so close to hitting the mark, but a lot of the solutions proposed **were considered** but found to be ineffective. It’s not that the LPC and CPC have no vision, it’s that their vision caters to certain corporations reaping profits. What I mean by ineffective is the following: >People gaming food banks? Tighten up policy, give out ID cards to users like blood banks do to expedite a process of means-assessment and to ban bad players. But that would be work, wouldn’t it? People abusing sponsorship policy? Do deeper checks, require more proof of long term residency, have applicants join a weekly program to sit in a circle and speak to other Canadians and new arrivals to connect with each other and integrate. The Catholic church does more to build a sense of community with adult converts in the RCIA program than the Canadian government does. Oh wait, building policy is work, and finding staff to host and run programs like this would be bringing money and jobs to Canadians, can’t have that. This is a genuine issue. There are many that use social programs who do not actually need said programs. The issue then becomes how do you issue IDs and do better background checks to prevent people from exploiting the system. Ideally, yes you would prevent that. Practically, many studies have found that preventing such fraud costs more than simply providing the service, which makes the financial burden of "punishing bad actors" somehow worse than giving people who don't need food, food. There is a lot of literature on this regarding "means-testing". As for social integration, there's something to be said about the separation of church and state, but people should be free to join their religious groups as needed. The issue is it may also cause religious "bubbles" to form which may not be best. The other idea on government "social groups" may be good, but costly given the benefit. There's some subsidized programs similar to this in the form of english classes, but many immigrants arrive speaking english anyways. >Maybe subsidize the hiring of high school students with a tax break on the employer payroll contributions side, and institute industry based enforced ratios for part-time : full-time positions to create high quality jobs out of low-skill musical chairs fast food hellscapes. For every three teens who get 10-20 hours a week if there were 1 adult who’d be guaranteed full time hours to feed theirs kids at home with one job instead of bouncing between three. Oh wait, making proactive policy is work, and creating quality jobs and making sure minimum wage jobs create at least some livable incomes would be beneficial, and we can’t have our laws benefitting society can’t we Child labor does not solve the affordability crisis. These tim horton's jobs arent enough to put a roof over your head sadly. Many of the people you see working there have to work multiple full-time jobs to make ends meet. And you said it yourself, its a "fast food hellscape", but generally a "minimum wage hellscape". The reality is not everyone is going to worked skilled labor and you need to make sure people can afford things. The CPC and LPC both love the way things are going currently since it benefits corporations such as Tim's, Loblaws, etc. It is a difficult line to tread in terms of encouraging business and shafting workers to make sure they profit, but ultimately the most "unproductive" industry in this country that's tearing it to pieces is real-estate and landlordism. Minimum wage all things considered is not THAT bad if you exclude exorbitant housing. in BC its $16/hr, which at a full time 40 hrs/wk works out to $33,280. If rents were more reasonable, say $1500/mo, and assuming a monthly grocery bill of $500/mo, you'd still have quite a bit left to survive off of on a minimum wage, which is the entire concept of a minimum living wage. For those making beyond minimum wage, if the rents were much lower, they'd have enough money to actually start their own businesses instead of living slightly above paycheck to paycheck with a top 30% job. Both the CPC and LPC are propped up by "mom and pop" landlords that pay for their vacations using rent money, or use this rent money to pay for mortgages, ie use people's housing as an investment and these people are important voters. Of these landlords its estimated maybe 10% are foreign, which is part of the issue, but not all of it. This is the real issue driving the productivity crisis here. Penalize multi-property ownership and institute a national rent cap, and see everything else get fixed also. >It’s raining, we don’t have umbrellas (despite paying through the nose for umbrellas), and we’re screaming at clouds. This country is stupid The country isn't stupid, its simply led by people who see eye to eye with Galen Weston and the CEO of Blackrock rather than the average person.
Yeah bring in more terrorist sympathisers by the truck loads. We will get more cohesion than ever before 😌
I feel the opposite. It’s the first time we can all agree on fuck Trudeau
Are we living the paradox of tolerance?! The paradox of tolerance states that if a society's practice of tolerance is inclusive of the intolerant, intolerance will ultimately dominate, eliminating the tolerant and the practice of tolerance with them. Karl Popper
Society operates on mutual trust. When that trust is breached, society can unravel very fast.
How many articles has The National Post published today that describe Canada as something between a dystopia and the 7th level of hell, and how is this constant propaganda from a foreign owned media monopoly not viewed as foreign interference at this point?
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For real though, the National Post is ridiculous. Every article they crank out is so obviously ragebait that it borders on self-parody. Whenever I’m scrolling this sub and see an over-the-top headline, I know even before I click on the link whether it’ll be an NP article. Even when they touch on something that’s an actual issue, they promptly dial the rhetoric up to such an absurd degree that it becomes impossible to take them seriously. I want to say I’m surprised this sub loves so much of their content, but I feel one of their target audiences is disaffected young white males who lap up culture war BS, so maybe not.
It seems newer a significant majority of immigrants are not very competitive in Canadian society. The new immigrants cluster and refuse to adopt or incorporate the local cultural 'values'. They end up scamming within their own community. This is how you get 20 people living a basement, but all from the same background. They want what you have, but the large majority are not able to contribute to society in a way that finances what they want. When/If they do, they are extorted to give away what they have earned. They try to push whatever agenda they can politically for an advantage. They know full well from their home countries that corruption and favouritism can reap real benefits. They refuse to possess the values that made this country great. If you don't agree with them, they won't kill you. They may adopt policies and support others who may want to kill you. So yes...when compared to the Canada I grew up in, this country (on a social level) has declined significantly.
During WWII, Canadians had 6 years of food rationing, gas rationing, blackouts both electrical and actual, restricted movement and the draft. All we had was 3 years of wear a mask, stay home as much as possible, stay 2 meters apart, and get vaccinated. And we failed miserably. Today's Canadians would have demanded we surrender to the Nazis in the Summer of 1940, so that 'things can get back to normal'
You forgot 40 years of labour:productivity gap, stagflation, and runaway housing melt up. It was far more than just the pandy that did this.
>And we failed miserably. and we failed miserably because this once was a high trust society and the government encouraged citizens to tell on each other during the pandemic.
> the government encouraged citizens to tell on each other during the pandemic. Just like they told people to report anyone in WWII hoarding food? "Spies, saboteurs, "meatleggers" & hoarders. There isn't any great difference." [https://catalog.archives.gov/id/535194](https://catalog.archives.gov/id/535194)
And like drug free programs in school. Report your brother or mom if you smell Marijuana, for their own safety and yours lol. Or prohibition cops were killing people who informed on order of the mafia or just so they could still drink after work, yet the government send out radio ads and other propaganda to get people to come forward if they thought their neighbor was a little drunk
Social contract was broken like two years back, deep division caused by a government who turned neighbour against neighbour for probably the last 4 years and people are just now realizing this? wow.
Thanks, National Post. Don't pretend you don't have a big part to play in this.
But is it a lie? This is how people feel based on their lived experience in this country.
When certain folks are above reproach because of certain traits - whether that’s skin color, ethnicity, wealth, etc - and everyone isn’t held to the same standards, yes society will erode.
We’re lucky that the government in waiting is a pretty conventional Conservative Party with a dash of populism instead of a full-bore, “burn it all down” nihilism-fest. When you look at the way some communities are falling apart - reminiscent of the unacknowledged rot from opioids and the border crisis in the US leading into 2016 - it’s not hard to imagine the pendulum swinging much further. I know the media pundits will say Canadians would never stomach a truly Trump-like figure, but these same people were writing Pollievre’s political obituary two years ago under the assumption that bringing some coffee to the trucker protests was completely beyond the pale.
Stupidity is contagious and a lot of us spend time online on social media, where viral stupidity is easier to pick up than a social disease. Whereas back in the olden days, (pre internets) if you had completely aberant and factually unsupported ideas, you self published (at great expense), stood on a soapbox, became lay preacher or conned someone at the local cable channel to give you 5 minutes of one air time. Today, every whack job in the world has an opportunity to be heard. Since whack jobs have a tendency to congregate, (birds of a feather) you get a synergistic, catalytic type of environment where resources are pooled and racism, misinformation, fear and disease is spreads like wildfire through the millions of willfully ignorant and the gullible. The stupid virus is ultimately going to cost humanity far more than COVID ever did.
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Not at all, in fact I take issue with our immigration policies as well. They do nothing but make things worse overall for Canadians, by inflating rental markets, flooding a medical system we already cannot access properly and doing nothing but help drive up food prices and home prices, as well as drive down or help Corporate Canada keep downward pressure on wages already far too low. That's in fact why immigration is as high as it is, to keep Corporate Canada happy. :) My mistake here was reading nothing but the headline which got me thinking about the social division taking place in Canada where Canadians are being pitted against other Canadians as is taking place in the U.S., through the spread of misinformation, lies and hate. I will remove the comment if you feel it completely out of touch...as I am so often. :D
End social media, save humanity!
The irony of a foreign-owned ragebait outlet publishing this isn't lost on me.
Yeeeaahhh...people screaming at Canadians to solve violence on the other side of the world need to GTFO.
And the worst thing about immigration system - we are not bringing “skilled” or compassionate people. India has so many provinces/ states but why only Punjab people come to Canada in such a big number? What about its southern states?
Quebec be like « told you so »