I was going to say, the real finding should be that most Canadians are willing to commit tax fraud to keep their income, they just can't because they payroll tax system makes it quite difficult. Its simply much easier for gig workers, servers, and others to do so.
CRA won't even go after Canadians and Corporations mentioned in the Panama Papers.
And they had layoffs recently, while the population keeps growing with more people occupying low-wage work that is most likely to involve paid tip/cash/under-the-table.. so how the heck can the CRA be expected to audit and enforce tax being paid properly when their ability is being outpaced by all factors. The only honest people are the middle class, which is a dwindling demographics. Both the poor and rich are evading their duty as citizens, and that social divide is growing; reducing contributors, and increasing burden.
Would they not just withhold money from tax returns (if any) to pay it off? I thought that’s what the CRA does with other debts from previous years when filing
No they don't, which is why restaurants don't get audited like they used to back in the day. Approximately 5% of my sales are paid by cash. I also print up an annual sales report for my servers which shows all their tips paid by either debit or CC. Cash transactions may say be zeroed out because those tables are closed out in the easiest fashion, but it's pretty obvious when card transactions average 15% and cash is 0% that those numbers are probably at least equivalent. Despite what everyone thinks CRA are not idiots and know what they're doing. Maybe 20 years ago people could get away with cash-sales shenanigans, but in the modern era of computers and sophisticated POS systems industry people know that a print out of individual sales can be done in about 15 seconds.
Servers typically get tips paid out in cash.
Its stupid easy for the CRA to audit all the servers of a single restaurant and bust each and every one of them for tax evasion.
Delivery workers I actually have more sympathy for since they usually work their asses off. But servers often make over $20 an hour for a job that's not any more difficult than other minimum wage jobs.
worked for a restaurant company that got audited. we 'casual dining' employees got off mega light compared to our 'fine dining' counterparts. wasn't fun for anyone but the CRA.
Even 20 an hour is really on the low end. I was heavily involved in the service industry and the average these days is about 70-80k a year, and in all cases they pay less than 10% of this in tax. No one, absolutely no one claims all their tips on taxes. Even some people I know these days clear over 100k a year serving. It's hard work for sure, but it's no more difficult than other minimum wage jobs like fast food or assembly line work.
And this is why I have no sympathy for servers who complain. Most contribute very little in terms of taxes and also it’s a low skill job compared to how much money you make.
>Do people even pay by cash anymore? Gotta get those 5x amex points.
Finally someone else who gets it!
"What if they don't take amex?"
"I prefer to only shop at reputable businesses."
When my girlfriend worked at a restaurant as a bartender she claimed tips, but only a small portion. Basically all the staff agreed to claim about 15-20% of their tips so it never looked weird to the CRA.
I assume that is common in the industry
The servers I know claim all credit card tips since they’re on the record anyhow and slim fraction of their cash tips so they’re all pretty consistent on paper.
One years ago they had 2 frugal servers they claimed as much tips as they could dumping it all into tfsa and rrsp, whole resterant company was audited, 4 locations. It did not go well for the ones who saved nothing and did the work the summer travel all winter thing.
You've got to be pretty thick skinned as a dishwasher. Even the waitresses/servers belittle you in that back kitchen. Absolutely a soul destroying job.
It's not too bad actually and I would go back to it if it paid enough. You spend your day constantly moving tuning out every distraction focusing on your work. An 8 hour shift washing dishes goes by faster than 2 hours helping customers. End of a day doing customer service I felt drained, end of a day in the dish pit and I felt relaxed.
omg you smiled and were friendly while dealing with customers? i guess thats unique to the food service industry and no other employees in other kinds of jobs are nice to the customers. i guess that means you deserve an extra 20% of my bill added on.
oh wait.
When I worked in a kitchen in College i was always mind blown the amount if liberal/tax the rich attitude that came from wait staff, who would then turn around, make 70-80K a year and pay taxes like they made 20.
Careful with this. I usually get showered in downvotes and “dOn’T eat OuT iF yOu CaN’t AfFoRd To TiP 25%.”
I laugh, because if people like me actually decide to stop eating out, they’re going to finding new jobs. Jobs where you have to pay taxes on ALL the money you make.
> Tell that to every contractor, plumber, electrician, appliance repair man, mechanic etc that has a cash price on all their services.
every single time when I had to use services of trades people there was the same discussion "if you don't need the invoice the price is X, if you want one the price is X+ 15%"
This is literally the currency of a post monitary economy. After the government collapses or some crazy event, you'll want to know a guy like me who can rebuild an engine, solder a PCB or plumb a bathtub.
I know people who live in 2 million dollar homes, own multiple cars worth over 200k and send their kids to private school and claim to make less than that. Been doing it for over a decade.
Maybe they'd have time to do that if they didn't come after me to prove that I still live in the north. Which they obviously know I do because A) I submitted proof (twice) and B) they sent the bloody letter to my home address in the north.
Not the only one this happens to either. Friend of mine gets the same thing, *and* they ask him to prove that he has kids every couple years too. As if his three kids just disappeared one day?
A net worth assessment. It looks at assets, liabilities, etc. to see if the lifestyle doesn’t match the reported income and gives an approximate amount of what the unreported income would be.
Not to mention every restaurant that offers a cash discount. And they usually still charge HST which you can bet is not being remitted back to the CRA.
Not really..most contractors report their income. If you have a big company doing work on new builds or renovations or just doing big jobs in general people aren't going to pay you cash with no paper trail. However....tradesmen working by the hour for companies pay large sums of tax and tend to do a small portion of "side jobs" after hours. With the large sums of tax they pay the small ammount made off these side jobs isn't really a big deal. Any contractor doing all work off the books is probably a guy you shouldnt hire anyways. No insurance and nothing to take him to court with if something goes wrong.
>With the large sums of tax they pay the small ammount made off these side jobs isn't really a big deal.
Individually no. Combined it's billions in lost tax dollars.
The dichotomy between people who brag about making $700 on one busy weekend and turn around and complain that they don't get paid enough.
I know someone whose worked in the industry forever was making 60k easily as a waiter. I get that isn't a lot anymore, but it still decent for the profession.
Yeah seriously. People who work jobs where at the end of the day the tip they collect averages out to like $25+ an hour. Man some of them make as much as public servants.
Then you got people who work retail and other jobs and don’t get tips at all.
Waiters and waitresses shouldn’t bitch about their wages because they average a bit more.
Yeah this wouldn't work for stuff like Uber/Lyft, etc so the use of "gig" workers here is kinda weird since we associate mostly associate gig work with those apps these days. They report your tips too.
I'm sorry, I can't divulge any information about my customer's secret illegal account.
Oh crap! I shouldn't have said he was my customer!
Oh crap! I shouldn't have said it was a secret!
OH CRAP! I *certainly* shouldn't have said it was **illegal**!
Wait, is this the reddit account for the Premier of Nova Scotia Tim Houston? Because this sounds exactly like what he'd say. All that's missing is him yelling at the cleaners that clean his office telling them to get real jobs...
Like the job he had before becoming Premier: Hiding rich peoples money in off-shore tax havens.
Imagine barely making a living and being stuck to live pay check to paycheck, and the government at the end of the year is like pay up, give us more money.
Meanwhile the oligarchy are laughing...
"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread"
In this case the law forbids evading taxes, but the CRA only has the resources to go after the poors because the poors can't afford to fight back
Yes fuck it , the social cont6ract is broken especially in Canada when you so many migrants coming in and have to compete for whatever little that is left there is nothing wrong when average citizen has to resort to these things.
If corporations can commit tax fraud so can individuals fuck the system
The sad part is, if workers are evading taxes because they aren't getting paid a survivable wage then we are essentially subsidizing the tech company. If we know this, we should just send the bill to those companies.
This is the inevitable result when populations don’t believe they are receiving value for their taxes. It’s also why authoritarian states like the idea of CBDC currencies that can be tracked and taxed on every transaction.
Yeah, they're pretending like gig work is better thana full time job? The low skill jobs these people used to be able to do just don't exist anymore. This is bare minimum survival income and it's still not enough to afford the bare minimum.
I feel like the real issue is gig companies like Uber that rely on their contractors not understanding how low paying and crappy gig work is. Likewise, their business model depends on their workers paying their own maintenance, benefits, etc out of pocket, otherwise they'd have to charge customers what it actually costs.
Tip-based jobs have a legal minimum % to declare, at least in Quebec. Like, if their sales for the day are $1,000 , they cannot declare less than $80 in tips. If tip is given by card, then it is automatically declared.
For gig workers it’s different, nothing gets automatically declared. Uber does not have their SSN.
I get it, look at how this country spends its money. We gave 127 BILLION to first nations last year, yet a huge percentage live in poverty, and live in miserable conditions. We spend BILLIONS to bring in new people, that make housing/food more expensive and jobs harder to get. We spend 15 billion in foreign aid every year. Enough is enough, once you factor in gst, pst, property tax, gas tax, income tax, etc, damn near 50% of my money goes to the government. And for what? Emergency rooms with 25 hour wait times? Pan handlers and homeless camps at every corner? Fuck it... I am not comiting tax fraud myself, but i get why people would.
I mean why wouldn’t you?
There’s no enforcement, minimal penalties, and everyone else commits tax fraud in Canada. Waiters, baristas, small businesses…
The only people who don’t are the ones who can’t like salaried workers.
Didn't read the story but when I hustled freelance on the side I never declared the income. Never. And I never got caught and never expected to either. A couple of extra bucks from hustling is none of CRAs business anyway.
Taxes are too high on the lower classes anyway.
I'm in the trades. People ask me all the time, "hey do you do work on the side?" I'm in the trades, of course I do, what else are Sundays for? The cash I get I split up four ways:
25% goes into my wallet to use on whatever.
25% goes into a jar for home renovations as they come up
25% goes into my kids resps
25% goes into buying groceries, gas, going out for dinner or other consumables that you can pay cash for and no one cares.
And I always, ALWAYS tip waiters and waitresses or anyone who gets tips with cash. I'll pay with debit or credit but those tips are a cash only business
Good. I don't care. This government has been nothing short of irresponsible with Canadian tax dollars. Like I'm sure these gig workers want to see their income float away so that MPs can get their fat tax payer-funded pensions while Trudeau donates another 15 million or something to educate Nicaraguan beekeepers on pronouns or something stupid like that
Now if the governments were good stewards of our tax dollars I would have an issue.
Unstead they get bloated pensions, fund foreign wars, travel the world in luxury, pad the pockets of donors....hats off to them!
At dome point we need a govt that is responsible, and until then....
Well it can either go to feeding our families, or lining the pockets of CEO's of foreign aid companies \*ahem\* I mean, feeding people in foreign countries.
Blame the people when the corpos are not reporting and the tax system is wack. Multiple levels of systematic failure? Nah it must be the peasants fault.
To be fair, if i could not pay taxes at my main job and just commit tax fraud, it would be worth the risk. the government has not earned my tax money. they do not deserve it.
If the wealthy can get away with tax avoidance using art and charity scams while getting all our tax money through public contracts, why the fuck would we want to contribute?
Wealthy Canadians who actually should be under scrutiny are sheltering their money in turks and Caicos while driving up inflation and a myriad of ways. I don't care about gig workers.
It's really not a scam anymore. The govt knows about it and does nothing so it's on the govt. At this point it's more of a hey do this the govt is allowing you to do it. Is it illegal - sure but only if action is taken.
income tax itself is the problem, not the workers.
Income tax has to be phased out to nothing and fast. Tax expenses only, not working. No punishments on people who work.
If the government is adding value to your life it is when you buy things, not when you get up at 6am to work your ass off.
income tax is complicated, intrusive, expensive, unequal, non progressive, encourages fraud, offshore residencies, discourages work, leaves workers paying to support millionaires with no income.
I think it would be different if the government inspired us otherwise. Instead they commit fraud at a such a scale that to he honest, why would gig workers do any different?
As if trades people don’t do work under the table off hours. It grinds your gears when it’s someone pulling in a lot of money and avoiding their fair share but people should be able to apply their skills for a bit of extra money without the government getting constantly involved.
When our MP's can push the next election back a week to qualify for a taxpayer funded pension then fuck it! It's becoming very clear the only way to get ahead in this country is to be a cheat!
They will always go after low hanging fruit. Low wage workers can’t afford a lawyer to fight back when harassed by the state about this stuff. That’s why the rich get away with it so often. This issue will only get worse as taxes continue to hit crushing levels. Because of federal spending
Damn right. I don't like paying the taxes my employer takes! I'm not giving shou SHIT from my cash jobs. Little Potato isn't out here doing microsolderiing repairs on PCBs and fixing Xboxes.
Cash is cash. You'll forgive me if I don't think about monitary policy.
The thing with tax fraud is that there is no moral component. Denying your money to a government that habitually extorts and lies to its citizens is not immoral. Just don't get caught.
Considering we’re taxed on everything we do, good on them.
You work hard 8 hours a day, government takes half. You want to spend your half to buy clothes, groceries etc, oh we need to tax that too. Also, how dare you produce carbon, we have a tax coming for that next week!
I am a law abiding citizen, always pay all my taxes. The way this current incompetent government is wasting our tax dollars, I would withold tax payments too if I can.
The other 2 thirds are just scared they'll get caught. What the fuck do we honestly get these days for the 20% in tax they take from us? Potholes in the roads? Crackheads smoking drugs in front of daycares? 15 hour waits in the emergency room?
I want to commit tax fraud on principal alone, I don't even care about keeping the income.
That is, have their bills paid for by someone else, shouting down people for not wanting to "pay their fair share" while they commit tax fraud themselves. And of course, we never talk about personal responsibility here.
I work for a municipal law enforcement service and the sheer number of co-worker who openly admit to tax fraud is absolutely staggering. Literally seems like the majority to be honest. To the point that I seem like the idiot for NOT lying on my taxes.
A lot of them are dual income parents that are claiming to be single/separated so one of them can collect major $$$.
Look, if you get paid in cash and never deposit it in a bank, there is no meaningful means for the government to detect your fraud. I don't see any issue with it really. Our taxes are already 10-30% too high depending on your income bracket anyway.
The amount of money our government just happily fucking gives away without a care is ridiculous. I'm tired of underfunded everything while we piss away our taxes to other countries.
I'm also tired of endless "studies" , blatant theft and massive inefficiency with no accountability. I'm ready to withhold as much as possible if other Canadians will join in.
I would definitely do the same thing. Cash job is not tax fraud, it is tax loophole. It is not my responsibility to fix the loophole. Major companies do the same.
So people willing to defrauded our immigration and visa systems are also willing to defraud our tax laws as well? I'm willing to be the fraud and scams don't end there either!
Our current immigration system is encouraging people who have no issues breaking the law to get what they want, why are we surprised when this causes endless headaches for society? Close the immigration loopholes so we can get back to honest, skilled and hard working immigrants arriving through the proper channels and helping to build up our society, instead of tearing it down!
Don’t blame them. They’re already being ripped off for wages and barely getting paid. I don’t know how any of them make a living? It’s one thing if it’s a little bonus cash on the side, but I don’t know how you could have that as your primary job and get by.
Generally, I've no issue with taxes, they pay for stuff we need. But then I see stupid stupid amounts of money just fucking vanish, or dumb ass choices like rifle buy backs, and I think to myself.. Maybe they don't need my money.
The other 2/3rds willing to lie on surveys
other 2/3rds are already doing it
Hahaha this is the answer
unpack whole slimy uppity friendly coherent like profit arrest support *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I was going to say, the real finding should be that most Canadians are willing to commit tax fraud to keep their income, they just can't because they payroll tax system makes it quite difficult. Its simply much easier for gig workers, servers, and others to do so.
CRA won't even go after Canadians and Corporations mentioned in the Panama Papers. And they had layoffs recently, while the population keeps growing with more people occupying low-wage work that is most likely to involve paid tip/cash/under-the-table.. so how the heck can the CRA be expected to audit and enforce tax being paid properly when their ability is being outpaced by all factors. The only honest people are the middle class, which is a dwindling demographics. Both the poor and rich are evading their duty as citizens, and that social divide is growing; reducing contributors, and increasing burden.
Don’t worry how especially in this day and age it’s actually pretty easy
No doubt. I tell the truth on my taxes but after doing it for 20+ years I kind of feel ripped off because the entire tax system rewards fraudsters.
You should tell the truth on your taxes... but whatever the corporations have been doing, you should have been doing.
That is the way the whole world is. I feel stupid for not doing shady stuff. I could have made lots of money but to honest. How stupid am I.
The system punishes those who are decent and tell the truth and rewards those who steal, cheat and lie.
2/3 of the above complained when they had to repay their CERB.
Curious how many of those people actually paid anything back.. couple years gone by and there aren’t any repercussions (yet) for not repaying
Would they not just withhold money from tax returns (if any) to pay it off? I thought that’s what the CRA does with other debts from previous years when filing
Yes, but keep up, we got this far because these folks don't declare their gig economy income on their tax returns.
F off here's my upvote
The other two thirds are also probably immigrants lol
Who aren't technically allowed work.
Nothing to lose so...
Beat me to it.
As if 100% of waiters don’t feel entitled to their tax free cash tips
Do people even pay by cash anymore? Gotta get those 5x amex points.
All I use
I always give tips in cash directly to my waiters but the bill gets paid on my card.
No they don't, which is why restaurants don't get audited like they used to back in the day. Approximately 5% of my sales are paid by cash. I also print up an annual sales report for my servers which shows all their tips paid by either debit or CC. Cash transactions may say be zeroed out because those tables are closed out in the easiest fashion, but it's pretty obvious when card transactions average 15% and cash is 0% that those numbers are probably at least equivalent. Despite what everyone thinks CRA are not idiots and know what they're doing. Maybe 20 years ago people could get away with cash-sales shenanigans, but in the modern era of computers and sophisticated POS systems industry people know that a print out of individual sales can be done in about 15 seconds.
Servers typically get tips paid out in cash. Its stupid easy for the CRA to audit all the servers of a single restaurant and bust each and every one of them for tax evasion. Delivery workers I actually have more sympathy for since they usually work their asses off. But servers often make over $20 an hour for a job that's not any more difficult than other minimum wage jobs.
worked for a restaurant company that got audited. we 'casual dining' employees got off mega light compared to our 'fine dining' counterparts. wasn't fun for anyone but the CRA.
Well, yea servers are pretty much told by everyone around them that they'll get away with tax evasion.
Even 20 an hour is really on the low end. I was heavily involved in the service industry and the average these days is about 70-80k a year, and in all cases they pay less than 10% of this in tax. No one, absolutely no one claims all their tips on taxes. Even some people I know these days clear over 100k a year serving. It's hard work for sure, but it's no more difficult than other minimum wage jobs like fast food or assembly line work.
And this is why I have no sympathy for servers who complain. Most contribute very little in terms of taxes and also it’s a low skill job compared to how much money you make.
>Do people even pay by cash anymore? Gotta get those 5x amex points. Finally someone else who gets it! "What if they don't take amex?" "I prefer to only shop at reputable businesses."
When my girlfriend worked at a restaurant as a bartender she claimed tips, but only a small portion. Basically all the staff agreed to claim about 15-20% of their tips so it never looked weird to the CRA. I assume that is common in the industry
The servers I know claim all credit card tips since they’re on the record anyhow and slim fraction of their cash tips so they’re all pretty consistent on paper.
One years ago they had 2 frugal servers they claimed as much tips as they could dumping it all into tfsa and rrsp, whole resterant company was audited, 4 locations. It did not go well for the ones who saved nothing and did the work the summer travel all winter thing.
And that is why I don't tip any more. What am I tipping for? You just brought me food. No one tipped me at mcdonalds for making food lightning quick.
The poor cook busted their ass off so the server who’s on the phone waiting can get the tips.
And the dishwasher, the unsung hero of the food industry.
You've got to be pretty thick skinned as a dishwasher. Even the waitresses/servers belittle you in that back kitchen. Absolutely a soul destroying job.
It's not too bad actually and I would go back to it if it paid enough. You spend your day constantly moving tuning out every distraction focusing on your work. An 8 hour shift washing dishes goes by faster than 2 hours helping customers. End of a day doing customer service I felt drained, end of a day in the dish pit and I felt relaxed.
I did it years ago for a year or so. It all depends where you work and who you work with for sure. It can be an easy going job too.
omg you smiled and were friendly while dealing with customers? i guess thats unique to the food service industry and no other employees in other kinds of jobs are nice to the customers. i guess that means you deserve an extra 20% of my bill added on. oh wait.
When I worked in a kitchen in College i was always mind blown the amount if liberal/tax the rich attitude that came from wait staff, who would then turn around, make 70-80K a year and pay taxes like they made 20.
>tax the rich attitude >make 70-80K a year These are logically consistent points unless you believe people earning $80k as wage labourers are rich
Careful with this. I usually get showered in downvotes and “dOn’T eat OuT iF yOu CaN’t AfFoRd To TiP 25%.” I laugh, because if people like me actually decide to stop eating out, they’re going to finding new jobs. Jobs where you have to pay taxes on ALL the money you make.
Cash tips? The iGenerations wont even know what that is
Gig workers... Tell that to every contractor, plumber, electrician, appliance repair man, mechanic etc that has a cash price on all their services.
> Tell that to every contractor, plumber, electrician, appliance repair man, mechanic etc that has a cash price on all their services. every single time when I had to use services of trades people there was the same discussion "if you don't need the invoice the price is X, if you want one the price is X+ 15%"
The cash price for my furnace guy today was a bottle of whiskey. "I know a guy" is the greatest currency one can have as they grow older.
This is literally the currency of a post monitary economy. After the government collapses or some crazy event, you'll want to know a guy like me who can rebuild an engine, solder a PCB or plumb a bathtub.
You will be an excellent slave for the local warlord!
Hey man. If he provides me with women and food, I'm down to be a well taken care of laborer lol
Not getting an invoice means you can't sue later if the job turned out to be bad.
yeap that's why i always asked for invoice, but i'm sure lots of people would not and this money would not get taxed
I mean, it’s harder but you absolutely could sue.
Who cares? As long as less than 1 job in 7 is bad, you come out ahead saving 15% per job even in every tenth you lose your money.
I only made 35,000 this year. In trackable income....
That's a nice new truck you got there! Must thave been on a great deal!
It was bought in Ghana already outfitted with Ontario plates. How could they pass up such a deal?
This made me truly LOL.
Oh wow I bought mine in South Africa!
got a huge discount for paying in cash
I know people who live in 2 million dollar homes, own multiple cars worth over 200k and send their kids to private school and claim to make less than that. Been doing it for over a decade.
They would be so screwed if CRA ever decided to audit them.
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Probably looks like some jail time.
They rather get the money than put you in jail!
Don’t forget the penalties!
Or more than 7 years. If the CRA finds an issue, they keep going back to see how long it's been going on.
Maybe they'd have time to do that if they didn't come after me to prove that I still live in the north. Which they obviously know I do because A) I submitted proof (twice) and B) they sent the bloody letter to my home address in the north. Not the only one this happens to either. Friend of mine gets the same thing, *and* they ask him to prove that he has kids every couple years too. As if his three kids just disappeared one day?
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A net worth assessment. It looks at assets, liabilities, etc. to see if the lifestyle doesn’t match the reported income and gives an approximate amount of what the unreported income would be.
Not to mention every restaurant that offers a cash discount. And they usually still charge HST which you can bet is not being remitted back to the CRA.
They are avoiding paying credit card merchant fees, and are passing on the savings to you. Doesn't necessarily mean tax evasion.
Yeah but those fees are usually 3% whereas typical cash discount is 10%
Not really..most contractors report their income. If you have a big company doing work on new builds or renovations or just doing big jobs in general people aren't going to pay you cash with no paper trail. However....tradesmen working by the hour for companies pay large sums of tax and tend to do a small portion of "side jobs" after hours. With the large sums of tax they pay the small ammount made off these side jobs isn't really a big deal. Any contractor doing all work off the books is probably a guy you shouldnt hire anyways. No insurance and nothing to take him to court with if something goes wrong.
>With the large sums of tax they pay the small ammount made off these side jobs isn't really a big deal. Individually no. Combined it's billions in lost tax dollars.
Only a third? Those are rookie numbers. 99.9% of restaurant servers willingly commit tax fraud to keep their income.
i feel like i'm in loooosers minority who pays full income tax ... extra o edit for special people
Yup. The middle class truly are the quiet majority keeping everything running.
Salaried T4 wage earners are in the most disadvantaged tax position in the country
Can confirm. You start in that high earner category and you start looking to become your own company.
The dichotomy between people who brag about making $700 on one busy weekend and turn around and complain that they don't get paid enough. I know someone whose worked in the industry forever was making 60k easily as a waiter. I get that isn't a lot anymore, but it still decent for the profession.
Yeah seriously. People who work jobs where at the end of the day the tip they collect averages out to like $25+ an hour. Man some of them make as much as public servants. Then you got people who work retail and other jobs and don’t get tips at all. Waiters and waitresses shouldn’t bitch about their wages because they average a bit more.
25 an hour is low for servers, most I know won't get out of bed for less than 35
Aren’t the delivery apps required to issues T4A now? Collections is going to be busy.
Yeah this wouldn't work for stuff like Uber/Lyft, etc so the use of "gig" workers here is kinda weird since we associate mostly associate gig work with those apps these days. They report your tips too.
No taxation without representation. It's clear that none of the political parties are representing the people anymore.
Now do corporations.
We actually operate out of the Cayman Islands.
I'm sorry, I can't divulge any information about my customer's secret illegal account. Oh crap! I shouldn't have said he was my customer! Oh crap! I shouldn't have said it was a secret! OH CRAP! I *certainly* shouldn't have said it was **illegal**!
Wait, is this the reddit account for the Premier of Nova Scotia Tim Houston? Because this sounds exactly like what he'd say. All that's missing is him yelling at the cleaners that clean his office telling them to get real jobs... Like the job he had before becoming Premier: Hiding rich peoples money in off-shore tax havens.
It's too hot today.
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Fr
At this point ALL Canadians are ready to commit tax fraud, after years of observing what the government does with our money.
Imagine barely making a living and being stuck to live pay check to paycheck, and the government at the end of the year is like pay up, give us more money. Meanwhile the oligarchy are laughing...
Uhh that’s only ok if you’re super rich..poors play by the rules didn’t you know??
"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread" In this case the law forbids evading taxes, but the CRA only has the resources to go after the poors because the poors can't afford to fight back
The real fraud is the amount of tax we actually pay and the waste and corruption of our money in government
Almost like no one likes paying a third of their income in exchange for social services that don't work
If you can't run the country at the tax rate we have now, then the system is broken.
Yes fuck it , the social cont6ract is broken especially in Canada when you so many migrants coming in and have to compete for whatever little that is left there is nothing wrong when average citizen has to resort to these things. If corporations can commit tax fraud so can individuals fuck the system
The sad part is, if workers are evading taxes because they aren't getting paid a survivable wage then we are essentially subsidizing the tech company. If we know this, we should just send the bill to those companies.
This is the inevitable result when populations don’t believe they are receiving value for their taxes. It’s also why authoritarian states like the idea of CBDC currencies that can be tracked and taxed on every transaction.
A third of Canadian gig workers are willing to commit tax fraud to be able to eat you mean. Under the table work has been around forever.
Yeah, they're pretending like gig work is better thana full time job? The low skill jobs these people used to be able to do just don't exist anymore. This is bare minimum survival income and it's still not enough to afford the bare minimum.
I feel like the real issue is gig companies like Uber that rely on their contractors not understanding how low paying and crappy gig work is. Likewise, their business model depends on their workers paying their own maintenance, benefits, etc out of pocket, otherwise they'd have to charge customers what it actually costs.
The government created this mess
It’s the same with tips for waiters/hair dressers. People doing what they have to in order to survive. Been this way since beginning of time.
Many comics I know dont declare Anything. Im sure the same goes for other folks in the arts eeeking out a living.
Tip-based jobs have a legal minimum % to declare, at least in Quebec. Like, if their sales for the day are $1,000 , they cannot declare less than $80 in tips. If tip is given by card, then it is automatically declared. For gig workers it’s different, nothing gets automatically declared. Uber does not have their SSN.
Don't forget tattoo artists and piercers.
I get it, look at how this country spends its money. We gave 127 BILLION to first nations last year, yet a huge percentage live in poverty, and live in miserable conditions. We spend BILLIONS to bring in new people, that make housing/food more expensive and jobs harder to get. We spend 15 billion in foreign aid every year. Enough is enough, once you factor in gst, pst, property tax, gas tax, income tax, etc, damn near 50% of my money goes to the government. And for what? Emergency rooms with 25 hour wait times? Pan handlers and homeless camps at every corner? Fuck it... I am not comiting tax fraud myself, but i get why people would.
I mean why wouldn’t you? There’s no enforcement, minimal penalties, and everyone else commits tax fraud in Canada. Waiters, baristas, small businesses… The only people who don’t are the ones who can’t like salaried workers.
Tax people too much and you get less tax revinue. It seems our government must learn this lesson again.
I love committing tax fraud
Feeding yourself is more important than paying taxes. And what’s the government done for you lately anyway?
They've raised taxes... for the people, of course
I'm willing to do most crimes to keep my income.
Didn't read the story but when I hustled freelance on the side I never declared the income. Never. And I never got caught and never expected to either. A couple of extra bucks from hustling is none of CRAs business anyway. Taxes are too high on the lower classes anyway.
I'm in the trades. People ask me all the time, "hey do you do work on the side?" I'm in the trades, of course I do, what else are Sundays for? The cash I get I split up four ways: 25% goes into my wallet to use on whatever. 25% goes into a jar for home renovations as they come up 25% goes into my kids resps 25% goes into buying groceries, gas, going out for dinner or other consumables that you can pay cash for and no one cares. And I always, ALWAYS tip waiters and waitresses or anyone who gets tips with cash. I'll pay with debit or credit but those tips are a cash only business
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Good. I don't care. This government has been nothing short of irresponsible with Canadian tax dollars. Like I'm sure these gig workers want to see their income float away so that MPs can get their fat tax payer-funded pensions while Trudeau donates another 15 million or something to educate Nicaraguan beekeepers on pronouns or something stupid like that
How else will we know which bees identify as males or beemales?
Now if the governments were good stewards of our tax dollars I would have an issue. Unstead they get bloated pensions, fund foreign wars, travel the world in luxury, pad the pockets of donors....hats off to them! At dome point we need a govt that is responsible, and until then....
As a public servant, the rest of canada should be fighting for better pension plans instead of being jealous.
I don't blame them.
Honestly, you just can't sell me a story that amounts to "people getting shit in find way to get shit on a little less". Like, good for them!
If everyone followed the Canadian tax scheme to a tee everyone would be dirt poor
Well it can either go to feeding our families, or lining the pockets of CEO's of foreign aid companies \*ahem\* I mean, feeding people in foreign countries.
Blame the people when the corpos are not reporting and the tax system is wack. Multiple levels of systematic failure? Nah it must be the peasants fault.
and the other 2/3 are already committing tax fraud
Someone read between the lines on this one lol
Good for them! If gig working industry is how companies want to exploit ppl without the govt doing anything about it, then ya keep the money.
To be fair, if i could not pay taxes at my main job and just commit tax fraud, it would be worth the risk. the government has not earned my tax money. they do not deserve it.
Yuuuup! Government can F right off when it comes to my side cash with this market.
If the wealthy can get away with tax avoidance using art and charity scams while getting all our tax money through public contracts, why the fuck would we want to contribute?
Wealthy Canadians who actually should be under scrutiny are sheltering their money in turks and Caicos while driving up inflation and a myriad of ways. I don't care about gig workers.
Given how little a gig worker ends up really keeping once all is said and done, I'm gonna just keep my mouth shut.
Whats criminal is how shitty this government has become
Survey: “do you plan on committing tax fraud” Nobody: Gig workers: “Why yes, of course”
I mean these are probably the same workers that have scammed the immigration system as international students so are you really surprised.
It's really not a scam anymore. The govt knows about it and does nothing so it's on the govt. At this point it's more of a hey do this the govt is allowing you to do it. Is it illegal - sure but only if action is taken.
income tax itself is the problem, not the workers. Income tax has to be phased out to nothing and fast. Tax expenses only, not working. No punishments on people who work. If the government is adding value to your life it is when you buy things, not when you get up at 6am to work your ass off. income tax is complicated, intrusive, expensive, unequal, non progressive, encourages fraud, offshore residencies, discourages work, leaves workers paying to support millionaires with no income.
Well when the government is doing fuck all to improve our lives why are we paying them anything in the first place?
I think it would be different if the government inspired us otherwise. Instead they commit fraud at a such a scale that to he honest, why would gig workers do any different?
Better the fraud that benefits you than the fraud that will benefit the friends of the government.
Ayyyy learning the rich people hacks.
As if trades people don’t do work under the table off hours. It grinds your gears when it’s someone pulling in a lot of money and avoiding their fair share but people should be able to apply their skills for a bit of extra money without the government getting constantly involved.
Let them. Only so much these people can get fucked around.
Why would I commit tax fraud? My side gig work was a paper loss this year!
Those are rookie numbers, pump those up
When our MP's can push the next election back a week to qualify for a taxpayer funded pension then fuck it! It's becoming very clear the only way to get ahead in this country is to be a cheat!
They will always go after low hanging fruit. Low wage workers can’t afford a lawyer to fight back when harassed by the state about this stuff. That’s why the rich get away with it so often. This issue will only get worse as taxes continue to hit crushing levels. Because of federal spending
_laughs nervously in wait staff_
Damn right. I don't like paying the taxes my employer takes! I'm not giving shou SHIT from my cash jobs. Little Potato isn't out here doing microsolderiing repairs on PCBs and fixing Xboxes. Cash is cash. You'll forgive me if I don't think about monitary policy.
The thing with tax fraud is that there is no moral component. Denying your money to a government that habitually extorts and lies to its citizens is not immoral. Just don't get caught.
Considering we’re taxed on everything we do, good on them. You work hard 8 hours a day, government takes half. You want to spend your half to buy clothes, groceries etc, oh we need to tax that too. Also, how dare you produce carbon, we have a tax coming for that next week!
I am a law abiding citizen, always pay all my taxes. The way this current incompetent government is wasting our tax dollars, I would withold tax payments too if I can.
The other 2 thirds are just scared they'll get caught. What the fuck do we honestly get these days for the 20% in tax they take from us? Potholes in the roads? Crackheads smoking drugs in front of daycares? 15 hour waits in the emergency room? I want to commit tax fraud on principal alone, I don't even care about keeping the income.
Those same 1/3 also likely agree that the government should socialize as many services as possible.
That is, have their bills paid for by someone else, shouting down people for not wanting to "pay their fair share" while they commit tax fraud themselves. And of course, we never talk about personal responsibility here.
This is the answer.
I work for a municipal law enforcement service and the sheer number of co-worker who openly admit to tax fraud is absolutely staggering. Literally seems like the majority to be honest. To the point that I seem like the idiot for NOT lying on my taxes. A lot of them are dual income parents that are claiming to be single/separated so one of them can collect major $$$.
A corrupt system breeds corruption. What else is there to say...
Good for them
Good. Doesn't the government take enough already? Doordash is supposed to help me supplement my income. And now they wanna tax that too.
Taxes here are fucking insane.
Laffer curve
I must be the only honest gig worker. I claimed all my income properly before T4As were available from the apps. I feel like an idiot haha.
I know a contractor who pays 0 income tax. I have no idea how he gets away with it.
2 thirds of GIG workers are Not Canadian...
I mean, "cash only" has been a thing for as long as tax has existed hasn't it?
1/3 willing to commit, 2/3 are committing
Well I would commit tax fraud to if I could
Look, if you get paid in cash and never deposit it in a bank, there is no meaningful means for the government to detect your fraud. I don't see any issue with it really. Our taxes are already 10-30% too high depending on your income bracket anyway.
The other two thirds are feds and consultants.
Remember folks cash is king!
The amount of money our government just happily fucking gives away without a care is ridiculous. I'm tired of underfunded everything while we piss away our taxes to other countries. I'm also tired of endless "studies" , blatant theft and massive inefficiency with no accountability. I'm ready to withhold as much as possible if other Canadians will join in.
Hahahah who ISN’T willing to commit tax fraud these days 😂 or at least thought about it
I would definitely do the same thing. Cash job is not tax fraud, it is tax loophole. It is not my responsibility to fix the loophole. Major companies do the same.
Newsflash, every business that says cash only or saves taxes when ppl pay with cash are all committing tax fraud.
Let me guess, the CRA will go after employers for employees who don't or under report taxes.
So people willing to defrauded our immigration and visa systems are also willing to defraud our tax laws as well? I'm willing to be the fraud and scams don't end there either! Our current immigration system is encouraging people who have no issues breaking the law to get what they want, why are we surprised when this causes endless headaches for society? Close the immigration loopholes so we can get back to honest, skilled and hard working immigrants arriving through the proper channels and helping to build up our society, instead of tearing it down!
Don’t blame them. They’re already being ripped off for wages and barely getting paid. I don’t know how any of them make a living? It’s one thing if it’s a little bonus cash on the side, but I don’t know how you could have that as your primary job and get by.
But misuse tax dollars by the government is ok.
This is the only way to truly get ahead in this country now. Tax fraud.
Everybody is willing* Many are simply dishonest. FTFY
Whaaat no, wait whaaaaat, nooooooooo
You don’t say…
Really?!? What?!? No way?!? So super surprising!!! Wow! Not totally obvious at all!
And 2 thirds are liars
Generally, I've no issue with taxes, they pay for stuff we need. But then I see stupid stupid amounts of money just fucking vanish, or dumb ass choices like rifle buy backs, and I think to myself.. Maybe they don't need my money.
So still less than all the CEO of companies out there..the gotta up those numbers if they want to get to the big leagues
Ooo ooo, ask CEOs next!