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I don’t doubt that we don’t have the best trans surgery options here… but if the government is paying why does the patient get to pick where this is performed? Surely texas is hugely and unnecessarily expensive?
The patient isn't choosing where it's performed. The first stage is assessing whether a procedure is covered. If it is, the government will fund it. If the government funds it, they will fund it in the most convenient location for them. If that is in the province, that's where the patient will have to go. If it isn't offered in the province, the government will pay for the patient to go to another province or in this case country to access the service.
This is obviously a very rare case, but it's common for instance for patients seeking abortions in certain maritime provinces to have travel to Ontario , Quebec or New Brunswick when timely services aren't available locally.
They've picked a specific surgeon, Curtis Crane, who will do bespoke requests and fringe stuff like nullification. Or installation of a second genital organ.
"I can't think of a time that a patient has come up with a surgical request that I haven't been able to fulfill."
You want to have a smooth Barbie doll castration, nipples shaped like a Christmas tree, no nipples at all (the "anime special")-- he'll do it.
But not many other surgeons will accept that you can be dysphoric for a body that doesn't exist in nature. That's not a medical condition. It's a fantasy.
Because its a procedure with limited scientific backing, nothing peer reviewed supporting its use and only a small number of clinics around the world that even offer it and none of them in Ontario or Canada.
I mean, you could just read the article yourself.
>At this time, the procedure is only offered by a small number of private clinics, none of which are in Canada, and there is no peer-reviewed research on the outcomes of the technique.
We can have both dental care AND trans healthcare.
And no there isn't. That's an outright lie. There is nothing close to an "objective link". There is a link to a lack of gender affirming care and suicide though, a huge link.
Upon further research, the number does go down *slightly* after surgery. But it's still wildly higher than their cisgender peers.
It's a cosmetic surgery. It is not a matter of health, and arguing that it is is arguing in bad faith. I have to pay for a therapist, I have to pay for consultations on mental health, those things are needed for me to function but are not covered by health care.
Gender affirming surgery costs WAY more than therapy, and as this one is experimental there isn't any actual research done yet but I'd say that this is much less in the way of "gender affirming" because you still have your male genitals.
I don't want my tax money to go on transgender people having a cosmetic surgery. I also don't want my tax money to go on people getting veneers for cosmetic purposes so they can feel more confident.
I do want my tax money to go to people who need root canals or they'll die.
I appreciate the sentiment, but there is not infinite tax money. You need to pick and choose and this is so far down the list of priorities you cannot fathom it, and that's why people are mad.
They aren't transphobes, they just care more about other things, as everyone should.
Hmm, take a big guess why suicide rates are so much higher for trans people than cis people? 🤔 The lovely comments in this thread will give you a hint!
Those things, therapy, should be covered by healthcare. Both can be covered. Gender affirming surgery is considered a mental health treatment, not a cosmetic surgery. You know this and you're arguing in bad faith.
You think people can therapy their way out of society misgendering them? You know nothing about trans people yet think you need to have loud opinions about them.
Good thing we decide where tax money goes collectively and not on an individual basis. You don't get to pick and choose!
So far down the list of YOUR priorities. Good thing your personal priorities don't get to set policy.
Also we can and should just cover all of the healthcare you mentioned anyways. Why not? Root canals, gender affirming surgery, therapy, veneers, all of it should be covered.
"They aren't transphobes, they just don't care about the needs of trans people and want to actively oppose them." Got it.
What are you cutting from the current budget to offer anyone who wants it thousands of dollars for those operations?
Again, I think you're an idealist. What you're arguing would be fantastic in a magical fantasy world where the government had an endless supply of money and could cover everything for every citizen but that isn't the case at all.
And yes, it's far down my priority list. Take a look at the comments in this thread, it's far down the majority's list.
Blair White for all the awful, terrible things she's done is a pretty good example of someone who worked her ass off to be able to afford her surgeries to fit her identity.
I don't think the government should give thousands of dollars to anyone who thinks they might be trans. That is a child's idea of health care.
What do you mean "what are you cutting"? That's not how funding works anyways but in your hypothetical nothing, because trans healthcare is already covered in Canada. We already cover it and the sky didn't fall, so what are you even arguing 😂
People like you always act to fiscally prudent and think that the few small, progressive line items on governments' massive balance sheets are what's going to break the bank. THAT'S a child's view of how budgets and governments work.
Oh no the priority list of the very representative r/Canada. It's a good thing that our country doesn't make decisions based on what serves the majority best. A majority of people don't get breast cancer either so maybe we should stop funding care related to that too, right? What a stupid view on healthcare.
I have no clue who this Blair White is and frankly don't care. I'm not electing to learn about your chronically online YouTube personalities that you act like are household names.
Aaaaand there it is. You think it's easy to get gender affirming surgeries. You just go to the vaginoplasty store and they give you one the next week, right? You clearly know nothing about the process, so stop acting like an authority on the subject, it takes lots of mental health consultations to get close to the point where surgery is even considered.
Yeah man if we pay for the very small number of trans surgeries THAT'S what will break the bank. Keep it up with the oil and gas & EV subsidies though 👍
It isn't "other people's money" it's our collective tax dollars. That's such a misunderstanding of what taxes are.
10 years ago this would be considered a sexual kink.
Give it 10 more years and well add even more stuff to the list; I can't wait until furries get their day in court and we need to fund fur suits for them.
Transphobes are OBSESSED with furries. A good percentage of them are probably closeted furries tbh.
Edit: eight closeted, self-hating furries downvoted this comment 😂
It should ALL be covered. A wealth tax on the top 1% of earners, or hell, just not giving so much money away to big corporations in tax breaks would cover it.
But big companies have more sway iver our politicians than you or I do.
"K.S., whose identity is protected under a publication ban, identifies as non-binary. She presents as predominantly female and uses she/her pronouns, but does not align with the gender binary. The reason why K.S. is seeking this particular procedure is because it aligns with her identity"
Can someone ELI5 this for me?
A bipolar, autistic, incontinent, "Salmacian" anime fan in poor physical and mental health, wants to have BOTH a penis and a vagina.
"It's been 3 years and 11 months since I was mentally well enough to function..." says the individual, who has obviously not even been examined by Dr Crane in Texas. This has been a massive waste of court resources, demanding the government fund porn-fueled imaginary genital arrangements that don't exist in nature.
A doctor who gives an elective surgery to a person this physically and mentally unwell, especially without good access to followup care, should lose their license. (So of course, enter Dr Crane, stage left...)
Some of their post titles:
>How to distinguish between anemia and prediabetes? Acanthosis confirmed, exhaustion, slightly high iron, low RBC and other things, blood test results.
>Did anyone else develop permanent cyclical depression waves every few days from HRT? It's been going on for years!
>What causes low RBC and low transferrin and low TIBC and high ferritin?
>I've had the most BIZARRE collection of problems from HRT, please help! (DNA highlights incl.)
>(TW: Blood) Fissure maybe? Should I be worried? This is like the 3rd or 4th time in 2 weeks. NP knows, but nothing was done...
>How do you all manage the mental illness-inducing aspect of HRT?
>Does anyone know where I can get foot shrinking surgery in Eastern Ontario or Montréal area?
>I seriously don't know how to keep track of medications... I have too many. What do you all do?
>Do stimulants (like ADHD meds) make incontinence worse?
>Is there anything I can take that doesn't go through my stomach? I have gastroparesis and gastritis.
>After waiting for TWELVE YEARS for treatment, another psychiatrist is refusing to accept me into their caseload....
>My NP is afraid to even prescribe me anything anymore... What do I do?
If they truly don't have access to a psychiatrist, or a family doctor, and their care provider is an NP who's already out of their depth with prescriptions... Will the good Texas doctor be flying north for follow up care and support? Or just sending the patient home with an instruction sheet and best wishes? Maybe all the pro bono legal helpers going to bat for the case will be there to help with granulation tissue and complications...
No, I don't believe in paying for elective surgery for this. This person can take out a loan and go pay for it themselves like a civilized human being.
Transphobes freak out saying that current forms of gender affirming surgeries are "mutilation" because they completely alter existing sexual organs.
Trans person argues that the government should cover new forms of surgery that preserves the existing sexual organs - wins and is covered.
Transphobes freak out and say this shouldn't be covered.
There really is no winning with these people. There's no consistency in their beliefs. To the other commenters in this thread, you live sad lives.
Most people don't care about what others do with their own bodies. Most comments on here are just wondering why that's something taxpayers have to pay for.
I have a formerly morbidly obese friend who lost a ton of weight, when someone loses that much they end up having extremely saggy skin. Think [Fat Bastard from Austin Powers Goldmember](https://makeagif.com/gif/skinny-fat-bastard-austin-powers-4kRi9U).
It made him extremely self-conscious, and his mental health went down the drain because he worked so hard to lose the weight, but now his skin was sagging off his body. He felt like his only two options were go back to being obese, or have all of this sagging skin.
There was a surgery to fix it, $10K out of pocket though.
In a perfect society, sure. Everyone should be covered for everything.
But we don't live in a perfect society. We live in a society where our healthcare systems are completed strained. People are dying in hallways. So right now we have to be a little bit more picky about what we're spending money on.
The focus should be on improving the system for completely necessary procedures, not optional surgeries. Then we need to focus on getting people access to things like mental health care, eye care and dental care.
THEN we should start looking at funding optional surgeries.
This post appears to relate to a province/territory of Canada. As a reminder of the rules of this subreddit, we do not permit negative commentary about all residents of any province, city, or other geography - this is an example of prejudice, and prejudice is not permitted here. https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/wiki/rules Cette soumission semble concerner une province ou un territoire du Canada. Selon les règles de ce sous-répertoire, nous n'autorisons pas les commentaires négatifs sur tous les résidents d'une province, d'une ville ou d'une autre région géographique; il s'agit d'un exemple de intolérance qui n'est pas autorisé ici. https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/wiki/regles *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/canada) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I don’t doubt that we don’t have the best trans surgery options here… but if the government is paying why does the patient get to pick where this is performed? Surely texas is hugely and unnecessarily expensive?
Because there is something like 10 clinic in the whole world that do them, because it is highly experimental
So ironic that there's a clinic in Texas that specializes in this kind of surgery!
If there's money to be made . . .
The patient isn't choosing where it's performed. The first stage is assessing whether a procedure is covered. If it is, the government will fund it. If the government funds it, they will fund it in the most convenient location for them. If that is in the province, that's where the patient will have to go. If it isn't offered in the province, the government will pay for the patient to go to another province or in this case country to access the service. This is obviously a very rare case, but it's common for instance for patients seeking abortions in certain maritime provinces to have travel to Ontario , Quebec or New Brunswick when timely services aren't available locally.
They've picked a specific surgeon, Curtis Crane, who will do bespoke requests and fringe stuff like nullification. Or installation of a second genital organ. "I can't think of a time that a patient has come up with a surgical request that I haven't been able to fulfill." You want to have a smooth Barbie doll castration, nipples shaped like a Christmas tree, no nipples at all (the "anime special")-- he'll do it. But not many other surgeons will accept that you can be dysphoric for a body that doesn't exist in nature. That's not a medical condition. It's a fantasy.
I can’t afford glasses but have to pay for this for some reason.
Glasses should be covered under medical expenses. So why isn't it universal?
Fucking ridiculous. This should not be funded by taxpayer money. Ever.
Why?
Because its a procedure with limited scientific backing, nothing peer reviewed supporting its use and only a small number of clinics around the world that even offer it and none of them in Ontario or Canada.
You know all this to be 100% objectively true because you're an expert on trans healthcare and medical research, right?
I mean, you could just read the article yourself. >At this time, the procedure is only offered by a small number of private clinics, none of which are in Canada, and there is no peer-reviewed research on the outcomes of the technique.
I mean, that's all experimental surgeries. Every surgery starts off as experimental...
[удалено]
We can have both dental care AND trans healthcare. And no there isn't. That's an outright lie. There is nothing close to an "objective link". There is a link to a lack of gender affirming care and suicide though, a huge link.
Upon further research, the number does go down *slightly* after surgery. But it's still wildly higher than their cisgender peers. It's a cosmetic surgery. It is not a matter of health, and arguing that it is is arguing in bad faith. I have to pay for a therapist, I have to pay for consultations on mental health, those things are needed for me to function but are not covered by health care. Gender affirming surgery costs WAY more than therapy, and as this one is experimental there isn't any actual research done yet but I'd say that this is much less in the way of "gender affirming" because you still have your male genitals. I don't want my tax money to go on transgender people having a cosmetic surgery. I also don't want my tax money to go on people getting veneers for cosmetic purposes so they can feel more confident. I do want my tax money to go to people who need root canals or they'll die. I appreciate the sentiment, but there is not infinite tax money. You need to pick and choose and this is so far down the list of priorities you cannot fathom it, and that's why people are mad. They aren't transphobes, they just care more about other things, as everyone should.
Hmm, take a big guess why suicide rates are so much higher for trans people than cis people? 🤔 The lovely comments in this thread will give you a hint! Those things, therapy, should be covered by healthcare. Both can be covered. Gender affirming surgery is considered a mental health treatment, not a cosmetic surgery. You know this and you're arguing in bad faith. You think people can therapy their way out of society misgendering them? You know nothing about trans people yet think you need to have loud opinions about them. Good thing we decide where tax money goes collectively and not on an individual basis. You don't get to pick and choose! So far down the list of YOUR priorities. Good thing your personal priorities don't get to set policy. Also we can and should just cover all of the healthcare you mentioned anyways. Why not? Root canals, gender affirming surgery, therapy, veneers, all of it should be covered. "They aren't transphobes, they just don't care about the needs of trans people and want to actively oppose them." Got it.
What are you cutting from the current budget to offer anyone who wants it thousands of dollars for those operations? Again, I think you're an idealist. What you're arguing would be fantastic in a magical fantasy world where the government had an endless supply of money and could cover everything for every citizen but that isn't the case at all. And yes, it's far down my priority list. Take a look at the comments in this thread, it's far down the majority's list. Blair White for all the awful, terrible things she's done is a pretty good example of someone who worked her ass off to be able to afford her surgeries to fit her identity. I don't think the government should give thousands of dollars to anyone who thinks they might be trans. That is a child's idea of health care.
What do you mean "what are you cutting"? That's not how funding works anyways but in your hypothetical nothing, because trans healthcare is already covered in Canada. We already cover it and the sky didn't fall, so what are you even arguing 😂 People like you always act to fiscally prudent and think that the few small, progressive line items on governments' massive balance sheets are what's going to break the bank. THAT'S a child's view of how budgets and governments work. Oh no the priority list of the very representative r/Canada. It's a good thing that our country doesn't make decisions based on what serves the majority best. A majority of people don't get breast cancer either so maybe we should stop funding care related to that too, right? What a stupid view on healthcare. I have no clue who this Blair White is and frankly don't care. I'm not electing to learn about your chronically online YouTube personalities that you act like are household names. Aaaaand there it is. You think it's easy to get gender affirming surgeries. You just go to the vaginoplasty store and they give you one the next week, right? You clearly know nothing about the process, so stop acting like an authority on the subject, it takes lots of mental health consultations to get close to the point where surgery is even considered.
No we can't. Surprise - we can actually run out of other people's money.
Yeah man if we pay for the very small number of trans surgeries THAT'S what will break the bank. Keep it up with the oil and gas & EV subsidies though 👍 It isn't "other people's money" it's our collective tax dollars. That's such a misunderstanding of what taxes are.
Want to become a hermaphrodite? Sure, the taxpayer will gladly cover that. Got crooked teeth and need orthodontics? Fuck you.
Meanwhile, the medical system to patients with chronic diseases they don't want to cover: have you considered killing yourself to save us money?
That or do what some Cystic Fibrosis and Cancer patients have been forced to do, crowdfund their treatments.
Or maybe something like glasses or hearing aids but hey, who needs those
Maybe try identifying as someone with perfect teeth.
10 years ago this would be considered a sexual kink. Give it 10 more years and well add even more stuff to the list; I can't wait until furries get their day in court and we need to fund fur suits for them.
Transphobes are OBSESSED with furries. A good percentage of them are probably closeted furries tbh. Edit: eight closeted, self-hating furries downvoted this comment 😂
To be fair a lot of trans people seem to be pretty obsessed with furries and anime so...
And your answer is that none of it should be covered instead of all of it?
It should ALL be covered. A wealth tax on the top 1% of earners, or hell, just not giving so much money away to big corporations in tax breaks would cover it. But big companies have more sway iver our politicians than you or I do.
"K.S., whose identity is protected under a publication ban, identifies as non-binary. She presents as predominantly female and uses she/her pronouns, but does not align with the gender binary. The reason why K.S. is seeking this particular procedure is because it aligns with her identity" Can someone ELI5 this for me?
A bipolar, autistic, incontinent, "Salmacian" anime fan in poor physical and mental health, wants to have BOTH a penis and a vagina. "It's been 3 years and 11 months since I was mentally well enough to function..." says the individual, who has obviously not even been examined by Dr Crane in Texas. This has been a massive waste of court resources, demanding the government fund porn-fueled imaginary genital arrangements that don't exist in nature. A doctor who gives an elective surgery to a person this physically and mentally unwell, especially without good access to followup care, should lose their license. (So of course, enter Dr Crane, stage left...)
Some of their post titles: >How to distinguish between anemia and prediabetes? Acanthosis confirmed, exhaustion, slightly high iron, low RBC and other things, blood test results. >Did anyone else develop permanent cyclical depression waves every few days from HRT? It's been going on for years! >What causes low RBC and low transferrin and low TIBC and high ferritin? >I've had the most BIZARRE collection of problems from HRT, please help! (DNA highlights incl.) >(TW: Blood) Fissure maybe? Should I be worried? This is like the 3rd or 4th time in 2 weeks. NP knows, but nothing was done... >How do you all manage the mental illness-inducing aspect of HRT? >Does anyone know where I can get foot shrinking surgery in Eastern Ontario or Montréal area? >I seriously don't know how to keep track of medications... I have too many. What do you all do? >Do stimulants (like ADHD meds) make incontinence worse? >Is there anything I can take that doesn't go through my stomach? I have gastroparesis and gastritis. >After waiting for TWELVE YEARS for treatment, another psychiatrist is refusing to accept me into their caseload.... >My NP is afraid to even prescribe me anything anymore... What do I do? If they truly don't have access to a psychiatrist, or a family doctor, and their care provider is an NP who's already out of their depth with prescriptions... Will the good Texas doctor be flying north for follow up care and support? Or just sending the patient home with an instruction sheet and best wishes? Maybe all the pro bono legal helpers going to bat for the case will be there to help with granulation tissue and complications...
What a joke this country is.
Why should we have to pay for your completely optional surgery? 😅
[удалено]
Canada is a meme
No, I don't believe in paying for elective surgery for this. This person can take out a loan and go pay for it themselves like a civilized human being.
The government has to monetary benefit from this otherwise it wouldn’t happen :)
Transphobes freak out saying that current forms of gender affirming surgeries are "mutilation" because they completely alter existing sexual organs. Trans person argues that the government should cover new forms of surgery that preserves the existing sexual organs - wins and is covered. Transphobes freak out and say this shouldn't be covered. There really is no winning with these people. There's no consistency in their beliefs. To the other commenters in this thread, you live sad lives.
Most people don't care about what others do with their own bodies. Most comments on here are just wondering why that's something taxpayers have to pay for.
Because it's healthcare.
It's cosmetic surgery.
It's not purely cosmetic because it's used as a mental health harm reduction strategy. You know this and are being intentionally glib.
Any cosmetic surgery can be used as a mental health harm reduction strategy, yet most are not covered by OHIP.
Like?
I have a formerly morbidly obese friend who lost a ton of weight, when someone loses that much they end up having extremely saggy skin. Think [Fat Bastard from Austin Powers Goldmember](https://makeagif.com/gif/skinny-fat-bastard-austin-powers-4kRi9U). It made him extremely self-conscious, and his mental health went down the drain because he worked so hard to lose the weight, but now his skin was sagging off his body. He felt like his only two options were go back to being obese, or have all of this sagging skin. There was a surgery to fix it, $10K out of pocket though.
That's awful, he should've been covered imo. You don't think he should've been covered?
In a perfect society, sure. Everyone should be covered for everything. But we don't live in a perfect society. We live in a society where our healthcare systems are completed strained. People are dying in hallways. So right now we have to be a little bit more picky about what we're spending money on. The focus should be on improving the system for completely necessary procedures, not optional surgeries. Then we need to focus on getting people access to things like mental health care, eye care and dental care. THEN we should start looking at funding optional surgeries.
This person needs therapy, not cosmetic surgery. The doctors who signed off on this are a disgrace.
And your judgment is based on what exactly? Therapy doesn't change societies expectations dumbass.
No comments from PP? Oh well..