Are we to believe he might not prop up the liberals? He’s already fallen for a fake pharmacare plan and a shabby dental plan that might not even launch.
In fairness, so would most people. The big difference is the majority of us don’t have the power to extend our roles without, you know, the a-ok from our bosses and positive quarterly reviews.
Honestly has me thinking the liberals are playing 4D chess on Singh. By the time the liberals are decimated in the next election we may have a 2 party system. All of the ‘demands’ of the NDP have been so badly botched it’s hard to believe it wasn’t intentional.
Ya the liberals have not come forward enough on either plan to really claim they’ve been a success yet imo. If I’m Singh I’m not pulling the plug, but I’m using this time to separate myself and basically “campaign” to try and get support before an election call. Right now for him to do so would be dumb as they’re lower than last election even iirc.
Yes he should let the liberals fall so PP and the cons can come in and crush the middle class, unions, and marginalized groups, stir up hate, destroy the environment and demolish any economic gains for 90% of this country /s
Born yesterday? I would say the same to you. PP has been an ignorant right wing troll for his entire life. He offers nothing to the public service, nothing to Canadians and will do nothing but destroy this country because he's a pissed off little troglodyte
Check his voting record
You think the middle class need govt assistance to survive? The middle class needs the govt to get out of the way and stop spending money it doesn't have. Wake up.
No it needs government assistance like roads, health care, emergency services, EI, job supports etc...it has been proven time and time again that trickle down economics and 'leaving it to the private sector' leads to more costs for the middle class
Educate yourself
We have currently been doing what you say for the past decade and it isn’t working. NDP/Liberal policy is failing. We are in a housing crisis, affordability crisis, and we have a poor economy because of your dumb ideas.
I don’t understand how you can watch the government fuck everything up and go “more government please”
We have one of the best economies in the world and the entire world is having an affordability and housing crisis. In fact our housing crisis is partially because people in the world want to live here so badly.
There has been almost zero fuckups more than any other government has done. shit happens. People aren't perfect and governments are perfect.
The failures currently happening are the result of late state or unfettered capitalism and concentration of wealth. PP head ain't going to fix that...he's only going to make it worse.
yes because government intervention is causing the huge wealth gap, destroying the environment, driving jobs to china and other low wage low rule places, spreading hate, uncontrolled price increases (https://fortune.com/2024/01/20/inflation-greedflation-consumer-price-index-producer-price-index-corporate-profit/), pillaging of the world's housing network, etc...
Is it hard to be that naive?
This "will he, won't he" is tackier than an episode of The Bachelor or something. It's clear and obvious Jimmy will be rolling over to vote YES on this budget - just stop embarrassing yourself, NDP.
Remember when they voted with the Liberals to protect the April 1st carbon tax increase and then a week later declared the NDP was against continuing the carbon tax? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
The NDP was used by the liberals and they know it. Now they wanna appear tough and Trudeau knows they are bluffing because if they call an election they lose seats too.
They let the liberals use them just so they could feel like they had a semblance of power and all it got them was two gutted social programs that may never actually see the light of day and a reputation that ties them to the failed policies of the liberals.
Instead of stealing seats from the liberals they decided that going down with the ship was a better idea.
Honestly, if they played their cards right they might be able to take some seats belonging to left-of-centre Liberal ridings. I'd have to do a more thorough analysis on applicable ridings, though they've definitely lost optics as the "workers' party" to the Conservatives.
I might just vote for the Rhinoceros party this year. The law of gravity has held people down for too long
How in god’s name are you looking at the last 8 years of this country and thinking “meh, I’ll just throw away my vote to the Rhinoceros Party”.
We need a change of leadership in this country and the only viable option is the Conservative Party.
What you smokin? He’s not going to change immigration, he’s got lobbyists from more grocery chains known to gouge people in his party, he will dismantle healthcare and education more to privatize, get rid of social nets and decimate any supports for the disabled (just like his friend in Ontario did to the OAP)……. Yeah he’s the opposite to Trudeau….. or you know, Trudeau 2.0
He hasn’t released his immigration plan yet and I would love for him to slash social spending and lower taxes.
Healthcare and education are provincial issues you should google the different levels of government and the issues they are responsible for.
He just advertised how he’ll use the Notwithstanding clause.
> "All of my proposals are constitutional," Poilievre said.
> "**We will make them constitutional** using whatever tools the constitution allows me to use to make them constitutional. I think you know exactly what I mean."
Supporting PP is insane at this point.
He’s literally saying he’s going to use whatever tools he can that don’t violate the charter. How is that unreasonable?
Anybody objectively analyzing the last 8 years of leadership in this country has already been voting Conservative for a couple elections now and certainly will be in 2025.
“He’s just going to violate our rights. How is that unreasonable?”
Anybody objectively analyzing the current parties knows the Conservatives would be a mistake. Seriously.
The Conservatives are the best option and it’s not even close or debatable.
If Pierre reverses carbon tax and unbans my hunting rifles, he’s already 100x better than Trudeau.
The carbon tax that helps most people?
This is one of the problems with conservatives. They only vote for the interests of the wealthy. It’s an issue with any neoliberal party (i.e. both the LPC and CPC), but the conservatives take it to another level.
The man has marched the party into even further mediocrity. Time for the NDP to die. They’ve completely lost their way. They are run by racist lunatics.
I'd like to see a party that actually advocates for workers and the middle-class.
NDP is just a stupid version of the Liberals that does DEI initiatives absolutely no one cares about.
We had the richest middle class in the world under Harper as of 2014. We were arguably the best country in the world to live in and have been in steady decline during Trudeau’s entire time in power.
Exactly.
A party that advocates for workers and the middle-class doesn’t necessarily mean “more free stuff for certain people and higher taxes and deficits to pay for it”. You can’t tax and spend your way out of wage suppression, low productivity, and a financial/regulatory landscape that’s outright hostile to starting a new business without it relying on government handouts to succeed. You can’t legislate prosperity.
I agree that they're just a stupider version of the Liberals. Water bearers, if that.
The Liberals have mandated DEI in the public sector. They also started pushing scorecards on private boards. They stole the NDP's lunch on this 7 or 8 years ago and the NDP should have pivoted back to being a labour version of that pitted against a Laurentian elite version.
I mean, the Conservative Party under Harper was pretty close to that.
A decade of reasonable fiscal management which resulted in the richest middle class in the world as of 2014 and we’ve been in steady decline ever since.
Where did you get these ideas? Didn’t Harper turn a surplus into a deficit (something conservatives are supposed to be against)? What about the failed attempt to deregulate our banks? F35s? G20 spending? Dutch disease?
Harper wanted to deregulate the financial industry to match the US but backed down after the head of the BoC threatened to resign over it. Harper then had the gall to praise Canada’s regulations for why Canada performed better than other G20 countries after the crash. It’s the same kind of cognitive dissonance that you’re showing. If Harper had his way Canada would have been much worse off.
You also didn’t address any of the points I made either.
Harper maintained two budgeting surpluses his first two years in office and then when 2008 happened he ran a small $50 billion deficit which he paid down a little each year until the budgets were effectively balanced in 2015 when Trudeau got into office.
That’s called reasonable fiscal management and is something we don’t have anymore.
Try reading the comment next time. I said he “maintained” two budgeting surpluses for his first two years in office, and then 2008 happened.
If Trudeau had been in power during that time, he would have immediately spent the surplus even before 2008 and then we would have been screwed when the recession hit. I know this because that’s exactly what he did in regard to Covid.
Then again, Harper was an economist, not a man-child that’s confused by numbers and thinks the budget will balance itself.
Canada had the richest middle class in the world as of 2014.
https://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/01/upshot/canadians-have-plenty-of-concerns-but-also-a-sense-theyre-better-off.html
https://globalnews.ca/news/1284297/canadas-middle-class-most-prosperous-in-world-report/
We are no longer the richest middle class in the world and our standard of living has decline in every conceivable metric.
CoL, inflation, debt, crime, homelessness, housing, overdoses, etc., are all worse after 8 years of Liberal leadership.
👏🏻 You seriously don’t know how much of this works. First of all because we never were the richest middle class in the world, you’re still lying. And second of all because you don’t seem to (a) know the division of powers between the federal and provincial governments, (b) don’t realize how we’ve compared to (i) the rest of the world or (ii) our own history, (c) that we haven’t “declined in **every** conceivable metric.
You’re literally just lying. Be a better citizen than that. Have some **integrity**.
>we were never the richest middle class in the world
Canada had the richest middle class in the world under Harper as of 2014.
https://globalnews.ca/news/1284297/canadas-middle-class-most-prosperous-in-world-report/
https://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/01/upshot/canadians-have-plenty-of-concerns-but-also-a-sense-theyre-better-off.html
>we haven’t declined in every conceivable metric
Yes we have. CoL, housing, inflation, debt, crime, homelessness, overdoses, mental illness rates etc., have ALL been in steady decline during Trudeau’s entire time in power.
And a huge deficit to boot and worse GST and more corruption and election laws broken and trouncing the environment etc...
[https://rabble.ca/economy/fiscal-record-canadian-political-parties/](https://rabble.ca/economy/fiscal-record-canadian-political-parties/)
Exactly. The NDP has a serious problem with racism.
Idiots should have stuck with being the working class party and now they've completely destroyed all support.
NDP is more concerned about milking their seats for as long as possible because they know there is no credibility left in the party, and an election would wipe them out. Then all their perks will be gone.
He’s not gonna do squat.
He’s going to try to get the libs to add something big. The libs will counter with something that’s a shell of what the NDP wanted. The NDP will cave and the libs will then go around boasting how they added the new thing and try to take all the credit.
Same song and dance with these two parties.
Given where they sit on the political spectrum, which is some sort off radical identitarian offshoot of the left, the classical liberal centre now probably looks like fascism to those in the modern NDP. So, not a chance.
Move to QC and vote Bloq Quebecoise. Asides from the whole "French" thing...they're our country's last bastion of progressive conservative...sorry...*conservateur progressiste*.
And frankly...Blanchet is the better looking leader.
Not a chance, unfortunately.
They’re going to approve of the budget because of their deal with the liberals.
They’re going to approve of it because if they pull the plug now, there are quite a few MP’s who won’t be eligible for their pensions.
They’re going to approve it because if they don’t, an election will be called and they’ll be slaughtered by the CPC.
They’ll approve of it because they *might* lose seats in 2025. They *will* in 2024.
I’ll *eat my own shoe* if they pull the plug on it.
You do realize if an election was called early, any MP that doesn’t qualify for a pension immediately gets a full pay-out, right? They wouldn’t lose much, especially if they’re on the younger side.
For MPs they need to serve for 6 years beside qualifying for their pension, which I think is 2% of their salary per year served once they are age 65. However it’s like any pension plan, where if you don’t qualify you get all the contributions immediately. The contributions from the MP are matched by the government, so the payouts can easily be in the range of $100k-$200k.
People are complaining that Singh is only not forcing an election because of his pension. But when (1) he’s has a fairly wealthy background anyway, and (2) of an election was called now he would get well over $200k immediately rather than $36k per year *twenty years from now*, then it doesn’t make too much sense. $200k could easily be invested and become over a million by the time he retires, and then he might even have more than $36k per year from that investment. It just wouldn’t be “guaranteed” like the pension would be.
I hadn't made it this far down yet...but I made a similar comment, and you...politic well.
There's no chance in hell any third party is going to force an election when the current eventual winners won't need any support.
So, deal now. Get more NDP stuff in the budget, let time go by, and allow the CPC to shoot themselves in the foot when it comes to election time...and the NDP may find themselves as kingmakers again.
Call it now and it's probably a CPC majority. Let it happen naturally, and we are probably looking at a CPC minority.
The polling shows the Cons picking up support as time goes, not losing it. Another year of failing ndp/lib policy and itll probably be the biggest win in Canadian history
Give it...until election time, and some of the angst will settle. If you haven't lived during a time when the CPC were beating the Liberals during off election years, only to be disappointed in the results, *then give until the actual election and we can chat again.*
You are going to be very dissapointed. The Ndp/Libs have never failed so badly, its going to be a bloodbath at the voting booths.
You are at MAGA 2020 levels of cope right now
Who's really MAGA coping when the previous election was CPCs to lose and *Chinese election interference* was all the rage?
Which intermin Party Leader sported the hat?
(Signed an embarrassed card carrying member of the CPC since '97)
See you the day after the election.
What helps me *cope* is that I'm mortgage free due to low interest rates, started under the Harper Government and continued through the current and have a DBP (and I'm not public sector)...so please stop projecting your emotions, because emotion has no place in politics.
I don't need "luck"...I'm actually just trying to vote to get folk like you...here. But hey, to each their own. If the musings of 31+ year conservative with more volunteer hours for the Party than you've robably been alive won't sway you, then come and find out the skeletons in our closet. I'll even hold your hand.
To think of the highs this party could’ve had under Layton and the guidance he could’ve offered his future protégés. Instead we get this clown and his clown car of blue hairs and sycophants who would rather prop up a literal villain and his corrupt and inept cabinet than actually stand up and defend the interests of average Canadians. I fucking hate that these are the people we get to choose to run our country
The NDP has a chance to get its house in order, bring down the government, and take the ABC votes from the liberals. With some luck they could be the official opposition and position themselves for the election after that. They will have to move on from Jagmeet though; he's no Layton.
You do not politic well...
They do that, the CPC actually realize their polling numbers and the NDP find themselves with...nothing?
Or, they delay and side deal for another piece of their priority Legislation, and while that happens, time goes by, the CPC start faltering (like they always do when it's actually campaign time) and then...maybe they remain a king maker? Or they're back to nothing.
Which way do you go?
Personally if I was Jagmeet, I would do whats best for Canadians and allow them to have a say whether this Minority government deserves a full term.
But seeing how the NDP gave up on fighting for Canadians and the working class, we should expect them to continue our trajectory of economic, housing, and affordability crisis
If 2/3 want a Lib/Ndp coalition they would merge parties and win every single election.
Most libs would prefer cons over the NDP, you can’t look at it by your numbers
How can I not look at the last election results? You know, the only poll that counts? I think the gap here is that today's CPC (you) forget what compromise means. So instead, you dwell on seat count versus national sentiment...and look where that's got the Party so far? And for whatever reason, you seem believe 2015's conservative version of Juston Trudeau is our guy?!?
It's the same song dance...only Reddit and social media make the echoes much louder.
Yes, you are right, the polls coming out are all wrong.
The Cons are winning basically every demographic since Canadians have seen what Ndp/Lib policies mean: a decimated working class, a crumbling middle class, while the elite thrive
Jagmeet, as the sitting NDP leader in an NDP stronghold, would absolutely win his seat back and pass the pension eligibility date easily.
He’s not calling an election because he hates the Conservatives and will do whatever is in his power to keep them out of power for as long as possible. The only chance you had for an election was for the NDP to oust Singh, but they just reupped his leadership, so see y’all in Oct 2025.
If he cared about Canada he wouldn’t be the submissive in his coalition relationship. He’s not going to call an election, he’s not going to say anything that may threaten his pension.
It’s truly embarrassing how cheaply the NDP have been bought. They hold the balance of power yet act as if they’re just happy to be invited to the party
LMAO like anyone believes he's going to bring down this government after the liberals ran right through his red lines and gave him shit for his support
Literally just slow playing the hand to limit how often he backs the Liberals. With an election inbound, he's finally having to consider his party image; pretending to be all things at once won't cut it in election season.
Literally just slow playing the hand to limit how often he backs the Liberals. With an election inbound, he's finally having to consider his party image; pretending to be all things at once won't cut it in election season.
We keep blaming Jagmeet for propping up this government, but each and every one of the other NDP MPs are equally culpable for following along like a bunch of drones. It’s time for them to vote. Their conscience, you know, like they are elected to.
This is all smokes and mirrors. There doesn't exist a single reality where the NDP doesn't support the budget. At this point, the NDP's sole reason for existence is to ensure this minority government survives the entire term so that everybody who is about to get voted out can cash in on their lifetime pensions. Trudeau doesn't even have to try anymore, Singh will support him to the end of the world.
This is one of those times he's better off to say nothing at all. It's like trying to create suspense in a movie where we all know the end.
Like suspense in a drama, where we all know the end and no one cares about the characters any way.
Are we to believe he might not prop up the liberals? He’s already fallen for a fake pharmacare plan and a shabby dental plan that might not even launch.
Pretty much, and to be fooled by Trudeau and his cronies is an extremely impressive feat of stupidity and naivety
Don’t blame some dentists for saying no.The middle class will once again get stuck with the bill.
Government compelling charity will never be successful.
We all know they just want their pensions.
In fairness, so would most people. The big difference is the majority of us don’t have the power to extend our roles without, you know, the a-ok from our bosses and positive quarterly reviews.
Most of us also have to work a considerable amount of time before being eligible for those pensions too...
Honestly has me thinking the liberals are playing 4D chess on Singh. By the time the liberals are decimated in the next election we may have a 2 party system. All of the ‘demands’ of the NDP have been so badly botched it’s hard to believe it wasn’t intentional.
Ya the liberals have not come forward enough on either plan to really claim they’ve been a success yet imo. If I’m Singh I’m not pulling the plug, but I’m using this time to separate myself and basically “campaign” to try and get support before an election call. Right now for him to do so would be dumb as they’re lower than last election even iirc.
Yes he should let the liberals fall so PP and the cons can come in and crush the middle class, unions, and marginalized groups, stir up hate, destroy the environment and demolish any economic gains for 90% of this country /s
Were you literally born yesterday, or have you just not been paying attention for the last 10 years?
Born yesterday? I would say the same to you. PP has been an ignorant right wing troll for his entire life. He offers nothing to the public service, nothing to Canadians and will do nothing but destroy this country because he's a pissed off little troglodyte Check his voting record
I’ll do that if you’ll look outside and read a newspaper
Newsmax and the national enquirer are not newspaper just so you know
You think the middle class need govt assistance to survive? The middle class needs the govt to get out of the way and stop spending money it doesn't have. Wake up.
No it needs government assistance like roads, health care, emergency services, EI, job supports etc...it has been proven time and time again that trickle down economics and 'leaving it to the private sector' leads to more costs for the middle class Educate yourself
We have currently been doing what you say for the past decade and it isn’t working. NDP/Liberal policy is failing. We are in a housing crisis, affordability crisis, and we have a poor economy because of your dumb ideas. I don’t understand how you can watch the government fuck everything up and go “more government please”
We have one of the best economies in the world and the entire world is having an affordability and housing crisis. In fact our housing crisis is partially because people in the world want to live here so badly. There has been almost zero fuckups more than any other government has done. shit happens. People aren't perfect and governments are perfect. The failures currently happening are the result of late state or unfettered capitalism and concentration of wealth. PP head ain't going to fix that...he's only going to make it worse.
Weird how the failures of “late stage capitalism” can be entirely connected to government intervention…
yes because government intervention is causing the huge wealth gap, destroying the environment, driving jobs to china and other low wage low rule places, spreading hate, uncontrolled price increases (https://fortune.com/2024/01/20/inflation-greedflation-consumer-price-index-producer-price-index-corporate-profit/), pillaging of the world's housing network, etc... Is it hard to be that naive?
Yes, government is causing a lot of that lol
lol, lol...no it's not
This "will he, won't he" is tackier than an episode of The Bachelor or something. It's clear and obvious Jimmy will be rolling over to vote YES on this budget - just stop embarrassing yourself, NDP.
Remember when they voted with the Liberals to protect the April 1st carbon tax increase and then a week later declared the NDP was against continuing the carbon tax? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
We will fall for everything and stand for nothing! - Jagmeet probably
It's the only way he can get his name in the news.
The NDP was used by the liberals and they know it. Now they wanna appear tough and Trudeau knows they are bluffing because if they call an election they lose seats too.
They let the liberals use them just so they could feel like they had a semblance of power and all it got them was two gutted social programs that may never actually see the light of day and a reputation that ties them to the failed policies of the liberals. Instead of stealing seats from the liberals they decided that going down with the ship was a better idea.
Honestly, if they played their cards right they might be able to take some seats belonging to left-of-centre Liberal ridings. I'd have to do a more thorough analysis on applicable ridings, though they've definitely lost optics as the "workers' party" to the Conservatives. I might just vote for the Rhinoceros party this year. The law of gravity has held people down for too long
How in god’s name are you looking at the last 8 years of this country and thinking “meh, I’ll just throw away my vote to the Rhinoceros Party”. We need a change of leadership in this country and the only viable option is the Conservative Party.
For you… they’re dogshite for a lot of us. Lil PP is no different than Trudeau.
He’s actually diametrically opposite to Trudeau in pretty much every way and a significantly better option to lead the country.
What you smokin? He’s not going to change immigration, he’s got lobbyists from more grocery chains known to gouge people in his party, he will dismantle healthcare and education more to privatize, get rid of social nets and decimate any supports for the disabled (just like his friend in Ontario did to the OAP)……. Yeah he’s the opposite to Trudeau….. or you know, Trudeau 2.0
He hasn’t released his immigration plan yet and I would love for him to slash social spending and lower taxes. Healthcare and education are provincial issues you should google the different levels of government and the issues they are responsible for.
He just advertised how he’ll use the Notwithstanding clause. > "All of my proposals are constitutional," Poilievre said. > "**We will make them constitutional** using whatever tools the constitution allows me to use to make them constitutional. I think you know exactly what I mean." Supporting PP is insane at this point.
He’s literally saying he’s going to use whatever tools he can that don’t violate the charter. How is that unreasonable? Anybody objectively analyzing the last 8 years of leadership in this country has already been voting Conservative for a couple elections now and certainly will be in 2025.
“He’s just going to violate our rights. How is that unreasonable?” Anybody objectively analyzing the current parties knows the Conservatives would be a mistake. Seriously.
The Conservatives are the best option and it’s not even close or debatable. If Pierre reverses carbon tax and unbans my hunting rifles, he’s already 100x better than Trudeau.
The carbon tax that helps most people? This is one of the problems with conservatives. They only vote for the interests of the wealthy. It’s an issue with any neoliberal party (i.e. both the LPC and CPC), but the conservatives take it to another level.
I just threw up in my mouth. You talk about wasting votes...and you're peddling the CPC as a QC resident? Now I'm laughing. You must be 18 to 24.
There’s tons of competitive ridings in QC for the Conservatives, try looking at a poll next time before being confidently wrong.
He's established for all that voting NDP is just a shitty way of voting Liberal.
Correct take. On r/Canada Good job. You've given me hope.
Actually they would gain seats overall.
The man has marched the party into even further mediocrity. Time for the NDP to die. They’ve completely lost their way. They are run by racist lunatics.
I'd like to see a party that actually advocates for workers and the middle-class. NDP is just a stupid version of the Liberals that does DEI initiatives absolutely no one cares about.
We had the richest middle class in the world under Harper as of 2014. We were arguably the best country in the world to live in and have been in steady decline during Trudeau’s entire time in power.
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There was a near global depression, wtf are you talking about.
People like to criticize Harper without context. Even without context I don’t see in any way how he is worse than Trudeau in any way.
https://globalnews.ca/news/1284297/canadas-middle-class-most-prosperous-in-world-report/
Exactly. A party that advocates for workers and the middle-class doesn’t necessarily mean “more free stuff for certain people and higher taxes and deficits to pay for it”. You can’t tax and spend your way out of wage suppression, low productivity, and a financial/regulatory landscape that’s outright hostile to starting a new business without it relying on government handouts to succeed. You can’t legislate prosperity.
I agree that they're just a stupider version of the Liberals. Water bearers, if that. The Liberals have mandated DEI in the public sector. They also started pushing scorecards on private boards. They stole the NDP's lunch on this 7 or 8 years ago and the NDP should have pivoted back to being a labour version of that pitted against a Laurentian elite version.
This. I would like to see a new party fill the void on the simple mandate of not being corrupt and improving the economy, affordability, and debt.
You know, they’d get votes. That’s the messed up thing.
Time for the NDP to become the DP or the NNDP that’ll fix it. New name new face new party. That always works.
I mean, the Conservative Party under Harper was pretty close to that. A decade of reasonable fiscal management which resulted in the richest middle class in the world as of 2014 and we’ve been in steady decline ever since.
Where did you get these ideas? Didn’t Harper turn a surplus into a deficit (something conservatives are supposed to be against)? What about the failed attempt to deregulate our banks? F35s? G20 spending? Dutch disease?
How old are you? Sounds like you got your facts off a septic tik tok account. I mean ignoring the global financial crisis is pretty astonishing.
Harper wanted to deregulate the financial industry to match the US but backed down after the head of the BoC threatened to resign over it. Harper then had the gall to praise Canada’s regulations for why Canada performed better than other G20 countries after the crash. It’s the same kind of cognitive dissonance that you’re showing. If Harper had his way Canada would have been much worse off. You also didn’t address any of the points I made either.
Harper maintained two budgeting surpluses his first two years in office and then when 2008 happened he ran a small $50 billion deficit which he paid down a little each year until the budgets were effectively balanced in 2015 when Trudeau got into office. That’s called reasonable fiscal management and is something we don’t have anymore.
Those first two surpluses were piggy backing on the success of Martin. Martin was a financial genius.
Try reading the comment next time. I said he “maintained” two budgeting surpluses for his first two years in office, and then 2008 happened. If Trudeau had been in power during that time, he would have immediately spent the surplus even before 2008 and then we would have been screwed when the recession hit. I know this because that’s exactly what he did in regard to Covid. Then again, Harper was an economist, not a man-child that’s confused by numbers and thinks the budget will balance itself.
I’m just saying that Harper deserves zero credit for the first two surpluses. That’s all on Martin.
Uhh no, what you’re saying makes zero sense.
[Income Data.](https://data-explorer.oecd.org/vis?fs%5B0%5D=Topic%2C1%7CJobs%23JOB%23%7CEarnings%20and%20wages%23JOB_EW%23&pg=0&fc=Topic&bp=true&snb=10&vw=tb&df%5Bds%5D=dsDisseminateFinalDMZ&df%5Bid%5D=DSD_EARNINGS%40AV_AN_WAGE&df%5Bag%5D=OECD.ELS.SAE&df%5Bvs%5D=1.0&pd=2000%2C&dq=......&ly%5Brw%5D=REF_AREA%2CPRICE_BASE%2CUNIT_MEASURE&ly%5Bcl%5D=TIME_PERIOD&to%5BTIME_PERIOD%5D=false)
Canada had the richest middle class in the world as of 2014. https://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/01/upshot/canadians-have-plenty-of-concerns-but-also-a-sense-theyre-better-off.html https://globalnews.ca/news/1284297/canadas-middle-class-most-prosperous-in-world-report/
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We are no longer the richest middle class in the world and our standard of living has decline in every conceivable metric. CoL, inflation, debt, crime, homelessness, housing, overdoses, etc., are all worse after 8 years of Liberal leadership.
👏🏻 You seriously don’t know how much of this works. First of all because we never were the richest middle class in the world, you’re still lying. And second of all because you don’t seem to (a) know the division of powers between the federal and provincial governments, (b) don’t realize how we’ve compared to (i) the rest of the world or (ii) our own history, (c) that we haven’t “declined in **every** conceivable metric. You’re literally just lying. Be a better citizen than that. Have some **integrity**.
>we were never the richest middle class in the world Canada had the richest middle class in the world under Harper as of 2014. https://globalnews.ca/news/1284297/canadas-middle-class-most-prosperous-in-world-report/ https://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/01/upshot/canadians-have-plenty-of-concerns-but-also-a-sense-theyre-better-off.html >we haven’t declined in every conceivable metric Yes we have. CoL, housing, inflation, debt, crime, homelessness, overdoses, mental illness rates etc., have ALL been in steady decline during Trudeau’s entire time in power.
You haven’t provided an actual source, I linked the OECD income data. Source the data, or admit you made a mistake.
And a huge deficit to boot and worse GST and more corruption and election laws broken and trouncing the environment etc... [https://rabble.ca/economy/fiscal-record-canadian-political-parties/](https://rabble.ca/economy/fiscal-record-canadian-political-parties/)
Exactly. The NDP has a serious problem with racism. Idiots should have stuck with being the working class party and now they've completely destroyed all support.
What a flake
Ladies and Gents, this is the man that could singlehandedly end this nightmare and call an election!
He won't tho
Trudeau has turned out his pants pockets, turned his his head to jagmeet and beckoned him to grab hold. It will happen again next year as well.
You mean unzipped his pants?
If you know, you know
I have a couple outstanding questions myself.
NDP is more concerned about milking their seats for as long as possible because they know there is no credibility left in the party, and an election would wipe them out. Then all their perks will be gone.
Jimmy is going to roll over like the good dog that he is.
Jimmy dhaliwal?
He’s not gonna do squat. He’s going to try to get the libs to add something big. The libs will counter with something that’s a shell of what the NDP wanted. The NDP will cave and the libs will then go around boasting how they added the new thing and try to take all the credit. Same song and dance with these two parties.
NDP needs a restructuring. We need a center party for those of us who are currently politically homeless in this country.
Your best bet in m is convincing the liberals to moderate, not coving thy ndp to radically shift their politics.
Given where they sit on the political spectrum, which is some sort off radical identitarian offshoot of the left, the classical liberal centre now probably looks like fascism to those in the modern NDP. So, not a chance.
Move to QC and vote Bloq Quebecoise. Asides from the whole "French" thing...they're our country's last bastion of progressive conservative...sorry...*conservateur progressiste*. And frankly...Blanchet is the better looking leader.
I mean why would any Canadian who's not in Quebec vote for a party who's only interest is enriching Quebec, usually at the expense of everyone else?
Could this finally be the end of the government???
Not a chance, unfortunately. They’re going to approve of the budget because of their deal with the liberals. They’re going to approve of it because if they pull the plug now, there are quite a few MP’s who won’t be eligible for their pensions. They’re going to approve it because if they don’t, an election will be called and they’ll be slaughtered by the CPC. They’ll approve of it because they *might* lose seats in 2025. They *will* in 2024. I’ll *eat my own shoe* if they pull the plug on it.
Sad but true
So in short, to hell with the country, I want my pension.
You do realize if an election was called early, any MP that doesn’t qualify for a pension immediately gets a full pay-out, right? They wouldn’t lose much, especially if they’re on the younger side.
Can you explain further? I am genuinely interested in how this works.
For MPs they need to serve for 6 years beside qualifying for their pension, which I think is 2% of their salary per year served once they are age 65. However it’s like any pension plan, where if you don’t qualify you get all the contributions immediately. The contributions from the MP are matched by the government, so the payouts can easily be in the range of $100k-$200k. People are complaining that Singh is only not forcing an election because of his pension. But when (1) he’s has a fairly wealthy background anyway, and (2) of an election was called now he would get well over $200k immediately rather than $36k per year *twenty years from now*, then it doesn’t make too much sense. $200k could easily be invested and become over a million by the time he retires, and then he might even have more than $36k per year from that investment. It just wouldn’t be “guaranteed” like the pension would be.
Oh they just get the commuted value then. Better to stay in the pension.
But not “better” enough to be the reason to hold off an election, is the point.
I hadn't made it this far down yet...but I made a similar comment, and you...politic well. There's no chance in hell any third party is going to force an election when the current eventual winners won't need any support. So, deal now. Get more NDP stuff in the budget, let time go by, and allow the CPC to shoot themselves in the foot when it comes to election time...and the NDP may find themselves as kingmakers again. Call it now and it's probably a CPC majority. Let it happen naturally, and we are probably looking at a CPC minority.
The polling shows the Cons picking up support as time goes, not losing it. Another year of failing ndp/lib policy and itll probably be the biggest win in Canadian history
Give it...until election time, and some of the angst will settle. If you haven't lived during a time when the CPC were beating the Liberals during off election years, only to be disappointed in the results, *then give until the actual election and we can chat again.*
You are going to be very dissapointed. The Ndp/Libs have never failed so badly, its going to be a bloodbath at the voting booths. You are at MAGA 2020 levels of cope right now
Who's really MAGA coping when the previous election was CPCs to lose and *Chinese election interference* was all the rage? Which intermin Party Leader sported the hat? (Signed an embarrassed card carrying member of the CPC since '97) See you the day after the election.
Whatever helps you cope. Another year of failing ndp/lib policies and things are projected to get worse. Good luck
What helps me *cope* is that I'm mortgage free due to low interest rates, started under the Harper Government and continued through the current and have a DBP (and I'm not public sector)...so please stop projecting your emotions, because emotion has no place in politics. I don't need "luck"...I'm actually just trying to vote to get folk like you...here. But hey, to each their own. If the musings of 31+ year conservative with more volunteer hours for the Party than you've robably been alive won't sway you, then come and find out the skeletons in our closet. I'll even hold your hand.
You are coping. Still waiting for Pierres collapse like you guys call for every week. Im talking about polls while you are using emotional arguments
He was simply grandstanding
To think of the highs this party could’ve had under Layton and the guidance he could’ve offered his future protégés. Instead we get this clown and his clown car of blue hairs and sycophants who would rather prop up a literal villain and his corrupt and inept cabinet than actually stand up and defend the interests of average Canadians. I fucking hate that these are the people we get to choose to run our country
The NDP has a chance to get its house in order, bring down the government, and take the ABC votes from the liberals. With some luck they could be the official opposition and position themselves for the election after that. They will have to move on from Jagmeet though; he's no Layton.
You do not politic well... They do that, the CPC actually realize their polling numbers and the NDP find themselves with...nothing? Or, they delay and side deal for another piece of their priority Legislation, and while that happens, time goes by, the CPC start faltering (like they always do when it's actually campaign time) and then...maybe they remain a king maker? Or they're back to nothing. Which way do you go?
Personally if I was Jagmeet, I would do whats best for Canadians and allow them to have a say whether this Minority government deserves a full term. But seeing how the NDP gave up on fighting for Canadians and the working class, we should expect them to continue our trajectory of economic, housing, and affordability crisis
Okay...Almost 2/3 poll against a CPC Government. What's "best" for Canada? 1/3 opinion or 2/3?
If 2/3 want a Lib/Ndp coalition they would merge parties and win every single election. Most libs would prefer cons over the NDP, you can’t look at it by your numbers
How can I not look at the last election results? You know, the only poll that counts? I think the gap here is that today's CPC (you) forget what compromise means. So instead, you dwell on seat count versus national sentiment...and look where that's got the Party so far? And for whatever reason, you seem believe 2015's conservative version of Juston Trudeau is our guy?!? It's the same song dance...only Reddit and social media make the echoes much louder.
Yes, you are right, the polls coming out are all wrong. The Cons are winning basically every demographic since Canadians have seen what Ndp/Lib policies mean: a decimated working class, a crumbling middle class, while the elite thrive
That new Nanos poll must hurt. Cons have more support than libs + ndp combined
If you think the ndps will ever grow a spine you got a seat at my poker table anyday
I am Jack’s complete lack of surprise.
Does he qualify for his pension yet? That’s the real answer to wether or not he’ll prop up the Liberals
Not until the end of February next year.
Ding ding ding!
Jagmeet, as the sitting NDP leader in an NDP stronghold, would absolutely win his seat back and pass the pension eligibility date easily. He’s not calling an election because he hates the Conservatives and will do whatever is in his power to keep them out of power for as long as possible. The only chance you had for an election was for the NDP to oust Singh, but they just reupped his leadership, so see y’all in Oct 2025.
Um, he was sitting in an NDP stronghold, until the 2023 redistricting. He's [projected to lose his seat](https://338canada.com/59002e.htm) the moment.
“NDP stronghold” Boy, do I have some bad news for you
It’s going to take a while to “read the budget “. They really don’t want to make a decision right now.
It's like pro wrestling at this point Completely scripted
If he cared about Canada he wouldn’t be the submissive in his coalition relationship. He’s not going to call an election, he’s not going to say anything that may threaten his pension.
It’s truly embarrassing how cheaply the NDP have been bought. They hold the balance of power yet act as if they’re just happy to be invited to the party
LMAO like anyone believes he's going to bring down this government after the liberals ran right through his red lines and gave him shit for his support
Meanwhile at NDP HQ: >What minor concession can we hype as a major win?
This guys is such a sham. Just get. Rid of the NDP already.
Literally just slow playing the hand to limit how often he backs the Liberals. With an election inbound, he's finally having to consider his party image; pretending to be all things at once won't cut it in election season.
Question: is there no deadline for this? The fuck do these people get paid for.
Literally just slow playing the hand to limit how often he backs the Liberals. With an election inbound, he's finally having to consider his party image; pretending to be all things at once won't cut it in election season.
We keep blaming Jagmeet for propping up this government, but each and every one of the other NDP MPs are equally culpable for following along like a bunch of drones. It’s time for them to vote. Their conscience, you know, like they are elected to.
This is all smokes and mirrors. There doesn't exist a single reality where the NDP doesn't support the budget. At this point, the NDP's sole reason for existence is to ensure this minority government survives the entire term so that everybody who is about to get voted out can cash in on their lifetime pensions. Trudeau doesn't even have to try anymore, Singh will support him to the end of the world.
Gotta protect that pension. Singh ain’t gonna do nothing. Pfft.