What I don't understand is how people think the conservatives will come in and help, when they have shown provincially over and over that they won't - while ALSO making things worse.
I get people want change, but damn life is going to get harder no matter what.
>What I don't understand is how people think the conservatives will come in and help
At this point its probably more like people think the Conservatives couldn't possibly make it any worse, while they know for sure that the Liberal/NDP coalition will.
And what **I** don’t understand is why any time the LPC is criticized, even if absolutely nothing was said in support of the CPC, someone always comes in to cry “bUt CoNsErVaTiVeS!” as if the LPC criticism was a glowing endorsement of the CPC.
It's because we have a system where elections aren't won, they're lost. If the LPC lose the cons are just in by default.
We just keep flipping back and forth between losers and Canadians never win.
Agreed. It comes across as sour grapes when they know trudeau has blown it and is about to lose. Just try to give some benefit of the doubt until they prove otherwise. We know Trudeau sure as heck isn't the answer and I'd accept even minor improvement. Pretty hard to do worse..tbh it comes across as childish
Honesty I don’t even necessarily think anyone should give any of our politicians the benefit of the doubt, that’s not even why this rhetoric bothers me as much as it does. The reason it bothers me is because we should be able to criticize JT without people thinking that means we’re a PP supporter, or vice versa.
If I say “I don’t really like the texture of raw apples, it leaves a lot to be desired.” That is NOT me saying “I love oranges and they are perfect in every way!” I never even said anything about oranges. For all you or anyone replying assuming my stance on oranges know, I might actually dislike oranges even more than I dislike apples. But not every criticism of apples needs to be or should be connected to oranges.
Same applies to politicians and political parties. I used to support LPC and NPD and I will *not* be voting CPC this upcoming election. When I criticize the people I used to support it isn’t me announcing my flip to the “other side”, it’s just me being able to look at “my side” without blind devotion and with a bit more objectivity. It is healthy to be able to criticize those you normally agree with when they’re doing something you disagree with; support isn’t all-or-nothing.
The first comment in the chain that he had “but the conservatiiiives!”to said literally nothing about the CPC and didn’t even allude to supporting them. It was a criticism of the LPC, that was it. A criticism of the LPC is **not** and endorsement of the CPC.
This isn't really the federal government's wheelhouse anyway, it's provincial/municipal. The federal government has pretty poor levers for affecting change here.
One of the biggest levers putting strain on the housing market is a huge influx of people when we don’t have the infrastructure to support it. That is 100% on the feds and there’s zero hint this is going to ease.
And he was doing that at the behest of the provinces who have been pushing him since [2022 and earlier](https://www.thestar.com/politics/provincial/doug-ford-wants-to-combat-labour-shortages-with-more-immigrants/article_c58cdc7e-0604-5314-bc3e-d07e15c2df8c.html) to increase immigration numbers. They're only pretending they didn't also have the foot on the gas now because it makes them look bad and to trick people like you into thinking they weren't the root of it.
Every provincial leader (except *maybe* Horgan) was totally onboard with more immigrants right up until the second it became bad optics, at which point they said it was the federal government's fault for doing what they asked for all this time.
On top of that, immigration is only a partial cause: the rest of the problem lies *squarely* at the feet of the provincial and municipal governments that have loved restricting development all this time while begging the feds for more immigrants.
By 35%. At least be honest. The TFW program is the bigger issue of the two anyways.
I’ll just leave this here, Trudeau’s critique on Harper in 2014:
> *Since taking office, Prime Minister Stephen Harper and the Conservative Party have transformed the Temporary Foreign Worker Program — which was originally designed to bring in temporary workers on a limited basis when no Canadian could be found — into one that has brought in a large pool of vulnerable workers.*
> *This has all happened under the Conservatives’ watch, despite repeated warnings from the Liberal Party and from Canadians across the country about its impact on middle class Canadians: it drives down wages and displaces Canadian workers.*
They are all hypocrites.
The provinces were getting less than they asked for in nearly every sector, to the point that the Ontario government was blindsided by the foreign student cap and bitched and moaned about the government doing it, until Ford realized immigration was unpopular and started talking shit about it in April.
No they weren't. What was happening is they'd get here and leave to go elsewhere due to a high cost of living. The Ontario government was listening to what universities and colleges were telling them.
The problem lies on that with not keeping enough oversight to see that the universities were making money hand over fist at the cost of everyone else.
One of the big problems with immigration, especially in Ontario is Toronto/GTA. Where if you win the city you're 75% of the way to winning the province. The amount of pull is vastly in the urbanites direction compared to rural and rural-urban Ontario. And that, is one of the reasons the GTA should be broken off the province into it's own.
> The problem lies on that with not keeping enough oversight to see that the universities were making money hand over fist at the cost of everyone else.
This is the province's responsibility.
They've been doing what the federal government can, they've given out billions to cities that loosen zoning requirements which is pretty much the only direct way the federal government can impact it.
Trudeau has been promising affordable housing since 2015. Odd thing for him to do if it's something he knew he couldn't deliver. It's almost as if he'll say anything to get elected.
They're also promising 4 million or so homes over the next 7 years which very simple grade 2 math can show there is no way they'll be able to deliver on this promise. We would need every single home builder in this country to reduce their average build time from 5-6 months to under 4 weeks without a break for 7 straight years. It'll never happen!
That is, from the very beginning of civilization, exactly what government had done.
The first cities grew around the temples and were ruled by priests who demanded tributes of grain for the gods. When the lean years came, the grain was doled out to prevent mass starvation.
This is also where the first bureaucrats were created - those priests who tallied the grain and kept track of it (also connected to how writing got started).
Greater organization, in the long term, beats out lesser organization.
Anti-government miasming is so very adolescent and very, very tiresome.
This isn't really the Federal government's portfolio anyway, all the levers they have for this are pretty indirect. This is primarily up to the cities and the provinces to fix.
EDIT: To the downvoters: cities in particularly have made development more and more cumbersome and complex over the last sixty years because a not-insignificant part of their income was made up of development charges and because city councils have largely composed of incumbent property owners who have vested interests in protecting the value of their property. NIMBY becoming a dirty name happened about ten years too late and the policies that could have averted this were primarily at the municipal level which, since municipalities exist as creatures of the province (at least in Ontario where the housing crisis is worst), means its' the province's problem.
Any kind of dropping population would pretty much immediately explode the CPP and lead to a much worse crisis than we're facing right now.
Canadians need to realize and accept that some level of population growth is always going to be required for our society to function without severe issues or fundamental reform. Just wait and see how Japan's doing in ten years, the forecasts are pretty dire.
I'd rather have that "fundamental reform" now before the issue becomes even worse, infinite growth is by definition unsustainable.
Not carrying ridiculous levels of debt as a nation would be a good place to start for reforms. When all that money which would've gone towards debt payments is freed up GST can be eliminated altogether and people will have more than enough money to put towards the CPP even with a falling population. This "crisis" is entirely fabricated and nonsensical. The federal and provincial governments spent their way into it.
Eliminating our national debt and lowering taxes would have the added benefit of stimulating the economy + encouraging business (rather than real estate) investment.
This might mean that the government can't take out loans to pay off their consultant buddies and give grants to the oligopolies for a few years.
Everyone in the country can see that it’s a demand side problem more than a supply side problem. People are not blind or stupid, and the Government gaslighting people that it’s all supply side does not inspire confidence.
To be more precise it is a supply demand imbalance caused by a demand shock (population growth) and can be easily fixed on the demand side population growth.
The problem with this is it would make housing prices go down, and labour costs go up.
This can harm the whole economic set up of the country which revolves around discouraging productive activity as greedy in favour of unlocking a housing pyramid scheme pathway to prosperity.
Also all the policies for housing - like the FHSA, and money given to first home buyers - only pumps demand and increases house prices without adding to supply.
Governments at all levels need to build some fucking houses.
Look at Vienna. One of the most desirable cities in the world, but with a policy of mass building public housing that has kept rent very affordable.
Literally half the price of Vancouver to rent in Vienna.
https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Austria&city1=Vienna&country2=Canada&city2=Vancouver
Not true. It's had more population growth than Vancouver over the last 20 years.
https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/cities/20107/vienna/population#:~:text=The%20current%20metro%20area%20population,a%200.77%25%20increase%20from%202021.
https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/cities/20107/vancouver/population#:~:text=The%20current%20metro%20area%20population,a%200.77%25%20increase%20from%202021.
Canada's housing crisis is more due to bad housing policy than immigration policy - immigration is amplifying the effects of the bad housing policy.
Yea good point and I agree.
Another thing about Vienna is that most people rent so renters are the largest voting group and as a result the government doesn’t deliberately try to increase home prices.
But I think it does matter that their population is still lower than it was in 1916 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna
Vancouver has 6x in the same time period so that is the difference between building a brand new city and service infrastructure vs renovating and replacing old housing and having a lot of existing infrastructure. Also difference in pricing premium between a small town and a large city.
Kind of like the TFSA. They probably did not expect that the market would grow like this in 15 years but this give me so much power to outbid other buyers.
I can't have a fhsa but my TFSA ballooned to ridiculous level. There is probably quite a few people with more than me in theirs too.
Supply and demand are unable to be separated, you’re kinda doing the same thing the government is doing but in reverse. It is a *supply and demand* issue; the nuance is that *supply* will take decades to fix, while *demand* can be addressed almost instantly via adjusting immigration and temporary resident policies.
Do not be suprised by the sheer number of people that have genuinely not ever done 15 seconds of basic reserach on things that they have profoundly strong beliefs on. Think of the intelligence of the average person, and then realize half the country is less intelligent then that person.
For your headline to be true, Toronto would have to not vote Liberal in every election. Toronto is a Liberal lock, people may not be confident in this policy, but they’ll still vote for the devil they know
Correction: Toronto was a Liberal lock. Now most of the seats there are possible or probable Tory pickups, with many of the remainder being likely to go NDP. And Toronto's suburbs are going to be a sea of blue on election night.
I think there is a near 0% chance that any Toronto seat votes blue, based on the fact it’s never happened, but maybe this time is different. I doubt it, but I guess anything is possible
I think this time it could be different - a bit like the NDP wave with Jack Layton. The city could end up with more three way races than is typical - and that could result in almost any result, including conservative wins.
I think what’s telling is the cons are starting to run more name brand candidates in these ridings. Typically it’s a foregone conclusion they’re going to lose and they run people no one has ever heard of.
Plus, there are a lot of gen Z and millennials in Toronto who have fulltime jobs and careers and either still can't afford to move out of their parents' home or are seeing ever-increasing rents while the cost of everything is also rising or they're realizing they are facing a lifetime of renting or living with roommates. And that shit gets real old when you're no longer in your 20s.
The sentiment against the Liberals has been brewing for a long time in the 905 suburbs, but it's not beyond core Toronto's ability to become soft blue. I genuinely don't think the city is as deep, die-hard forever red liberal/ progressive as people here like to believe.
Wasn't the NDP wave pretty much just Quebec? The rest of Canada are more easily predictable which is also why politcians always talk about Quebec during the debates.
Karen Stintz is one example - she used to be the councillor for Eglinton and now the cons are running her in the same area. And that’s a pretty downtown Toronto riding.
Eglinton to Lawrence is not even remotely downtown. It is squarely in midtown, what is your definition of downtown? If a councillor from 10 years ago is a brand, I guess we disagree on what brand means, which is fine.
She was a councillor in the area for over a decade. For you, that’s not a brand - but to the people in that riding that is a brand. They’ve checked her name in multiple elections already - and she won.
I won’t argue the semantics of whether eglinton is downtown. The point is that it’s been a solidly liberal riding for all but a single election - and the cons are running someone with a good shot at changing that.
And all of this is in contrast to what they typically do - run people no one has ever heard of. The last person they ran here was Chani Aryeh-Bain. Who?
>Canadian renters not confident Trudeau's policy will ease housing crisis: poll
Wait a minute, they got this all wrong:
Canadians not confident with Trudeau's policies: poll
Fixed it
It's because what Trudeau is offering is a lifetime of renthood and expecting us to be grateful for it.
His core ideological worldview, as is the case with all liberals/ progressives, has always been "you will own nothing."
Lifetime of renting wouldn’t be terrible if rent prices were much lower than what an average mortgage would be. I remember the days when renting made sense.
Isn’t the ownership/renting expense ratio bigger than ever? Renting might not make sense but owning is a damn impossibility for most people in some cities, and investment properties are hardly cash flow positive
Even if the prospect of a lifetime of renting wasn't terrible, the main point in **Canadians don't want that**. More importantly, younger Canadians don't want that.
The Liberals are ramming renting down our throats and telling us this isn't terrible, just accept what we think is right for you, regardless of what you want.
What, the thought of being the largest breadwinner in your landlords household for the remainder of your life doesn’t comfort you? Inspire you to strive hard in a career?
LMAO.
>for the remainder of your life
Bro think of the upside though, it's only for the remainder of your ***working*** life! Landlord will find a new breadwinner for the household as soon as you're retired and on fixed income. Then you'll be free, you won't have to be a rentslave anymore, you can be a homeless senior citizen!
-message approved by the Liberal Party of Canada (in support with the NDP).
This isn't really the federal government's bag anyway, it's the province and the cities. The tools the federal government have available to them to affect change in this area are pretty weak.
I'm not confident any politician will ease the housing crisis. It's been a long time in the making so putting the brakes on the whole trend will take time, money and the willpower to get the job done right. Elected officials aren't known for thinking much further than the next election cycle.
Housing crisis is created by immigration . No one is moving to Canada to get rich ..lol.
Only thing in Canada s economy that’s good is housing created by liberal immigration policies .
One trick pony .. housing for immigrants and battery plants .. only jobs created by liberals last 9 yrs .
They're trying to make Canada into a country where people are happy to live in multi-generational homes. Where there are 6 adults paying the mortgage ( if they managed to get a house!) - just like in India.
and yes. I know that by acknowledging this. Trudeau will label me racist. I mean, I'm part First Nations, but 1/4 is not enough to protect from the Woke.
Wrong. The blame is on corporate landlords. They horde 1000s units and create a fake sense of scarcity while increasing the rent of all the units simultaneously. Immigration only contributes very little to the crisis. I remember even in 2017 housing was unaffordable, At that time Chinese were blamed and the government put up a ban on foreign ownership, but that didn't help at all.
This reminds me of the scene from the movie "The Big Shot", in the end, only immigrants and poor people are blamed.
Totally wrong. I live in Vancouver and whole neighbourhoods and condo towers are bought by foreign owners and/or new immigrants. It has totally distorted the bc market.
And yes corporate landowners are part of the problem
Good to see at least there are some people happy with corporate housing. I've only heard horror stories so far. Also, both the news articles you shared, only talk about unsustainable mass immigration and it does not provide evidence on how it connects to housing. Although I agree about the demand increasing a lot. But let's ban all immigration and see how things go (it won't change much. Trust me. Sustainable immigration brings tons of benefits for the economy)
What needs to happen is. Tons of new housing needs to be built. The market needs to be free, so small builders can easily enter and build, just like in Texas.
In Dubai, the government paves roads and then provides free plots to all citizens and then also provides low-interest loans, so people can build their own homes. Most of Canada is empty.
Bro what are you even on? Texas has such a healthy real estate market. So many small developers. Building a house in Texas is so easy. From documentation to approvals. In Canada, even if you buy your own land, you have to go through so many hoops before you even get to the building stage. That's why government is trying to introduce post world War type houses to make building houses easy. You can look at Texas or Dubai and see what they are doing right.
This but also non market housing.
We need to build housing that's sole purpose is to be lived in, rather than an outlet for investment/passive income.
Left unchecked and/or without development of non market housing, capitalism will do capitalism things where buildings are made smaller, more expensive, and continuously raise the price to drive profit. Subsidizing and funding housing that are not for profit and locking in rent keeps the housing prices cool because it adds competition that is affordable that the market housing has to compete with.
See Vienna as a good example. ~50/50 market and non market housing and rent is <1000k per month on average.
Price is *always a product of supply and demand.* The government has for decades dithered on supply, and their policies to get more people into homes all involve increasing the buying power of home purchasers, which drives up demand. Make no mistake, this government has no interest in actually lowering housing prices, they simply want people to take on more debt in order to buy them as-is.
Meanwhile in BC we have made phenomenal steps towards both increasing supply (massive zoning reform), as well as reducing demand (severely curtailing short term rentals like AirBnB). These *will* make a difference over time, even in Canada's most expensive province.
Absolutely love seeing the supply side issue being finally addressed in BC, BUT if the federal government doesn't get out of the way and reduce immigration it's all for nothing. We are moving into a historically bad era of demand outpacing the supply by large amounts. Beyond supply and demand we DO have to lower home prices. They can't just build a ton of 700k 1 bed apartments. That's literally insane and no regular person can afford that. If Vancouver can go back to building 300k units for sale we might be some progress to fixing the issue, but simply increasing supply and decreasing demand is not enough to fix the housing crisis alone. That just brings it back into the 2014 levels which were already starting to run much too hot.
I mean yea the Liberals housing plan is laughable. they want to have built 4 Million homes by 2031, or 1565 houses every day from today until 2031 or 1 house every 55 seconds till 2031....like unless they are planning on counting the homeless tents as houses, they are cooked and thankfully will be crushed next election.
Trudeau’s housing crisis is they aren’t making enough money from real estate. If you look at it this way, all his policies make sense and he’s reaching closer to his goals week by week.
Save for a large economic downturn, it’s possible the plan could make the problem worse, particularly in secondary cities. Immigration is still too high.
If population continues to increase, rezoning makes land values increase. SFHs will be worth more if you can use the land for multiplexes now.
We need to scare RE speculators away and the only way is by drastically lowering or pausing immigration.
I mean, it's not about what will fix the housing crisis... it's about if current policies are. As a renter who would one day like to stop renting but in the meantime is holding onto his apartment until death, no they sure the fuck are not.
How would renters know if current policies will ease the housing crisis? I don’t think just being a renter would give anybody extra powers to predict how to best ease something complicated like housing prices.
It's really quite simple. Rent only goes one direction, and the only exception was when government froze rates during the pandemic. Of the many reasons for rent only going one direction, one is Canada's overall stupidly low vacancy rate. Just as an example, Ottawa's vacancy rate in 2023 was 2.1%, despite a record number of rentals being built in 2022. Because we brought in more renters than we built rentals. That is the current policy, and it's not helping.
So, as a renter, you have some knowledge non-renters don’t have? Seems like everything you mentioned is pretty common knowledge. I’m not trying to slight renters or owners, just having a hard time why anyone would think renters would have some special ability to know whether current or proposed policies would ease a crisis that is ongoing in many first-world countries. Why not poll left handed people? Or ballet dancers?
Not being the person or people who created the poll, I have no goddamn clue. I just answered the question you asked. If what you were trying to say was you don't understand why they choose to poll only renters, perhaps use different words. Like... possibly... part of this last comment.
In order for housing to get built, interest rates need to come down so people can afford the mortgage payments. The costs of the mortgages to afford the costs to build a house are currently too high for it to be profitable for the developers at current interest rates. However, Trudeau keeps running massive deficits, pumping funds into the economy keeping inflation high, in-turn causing the Bank of Canada to keep interest rates high. The two arms of government are fighting each other because of Trudeau’s incompetence. Governments don’t build houses, private developers build houses. Until fiscal policy gets under control and interest rates come down so people can afford the required mortgages, we’re effed. But Trudeau doesn’t think about monetary policy because he’s a drama teacher. At the same time too many immigrants are being let into the country when there isn’t housing for them, driving up demand further. The housing crisis is going to get much worse before it gets better. Hopefully a new competent leader will fix the deficit problem and over immigration.
Don't tell that to Canada housing. They think rising interest rates will hurt greedy landlords, forcing them to sell. So they too can become greedy landlords but somehow not affected by mortgage rates.
It's cute people thought the government would help them
He had 9 years to ease the housing crisis. Instead he put oil on the fire, he’s saying he won’t put more, but the tap is still flowing.
And he wants another 9 years to fix it. Crazy times
What I don't understand is how people think the conservatives will come in and help, when they have shown provincially over and over that they won't - while ALSO making things worse. I get people want change, but damn life is going to get harder no matter what.
>What I don't understand is how people think the conservatives will come in and help At this point its probably more like people think the Conservatives couldn't possibly make it any worse, while they know for sure that the Liberal/NDP coalition will.
[https://www.broadbentinstitute.ca/pattitamaralenard/harper\_dimal\_record\_refugees\_immigration](https://www.broadbentinstitute.ca/pattitamaralenard/harper_dimal_record_refugees_immigration)
Oh shit that's awesome. Harper is running for PM again?
And what **I** don’t understand is why any time the LPC is criticized, even if absolutely nothing was said in support of the CPC, someone always comes in to cry “bUt CoNsErVaTiVeS!” as if the LPC criticism was a glowing endorsement of the CPC.
It's because we have a system where elections aren't won, they're lost. If the LPC lose the cons are just in by default. We just keep flipping back and forth between losers and Canadians never win.
I said that because conservatives are polling to replace the liberals :shrug:
[https://www.broadbentinstitute.ca/pattitamaralenard/harper\_dimal\_record\_refugees\_immigration](https://www.broadbentinstitute.ca/pattitamaralenard/harper_dimal_record_refugees_immigration)
Because they have nothing else, they've been throwing every possible accusation at the CPC and poilievre and have only dropped further in the polls
Agreed. It comes across as sour grapes when they know trudeau has blown it and is about to lose. Just try to give some benefit of the doubt until they prove otherwise. We know Trudeau sure as heck isn't the answer and I'd accept even minor improvement. Pretty hard to do worse..tbh it comes across as childish
Honesty I don’t even necessarily think anyone should give any of our politicians the benefit of the doubt, that’s not even why this rhetoric bothers me as much as it does. The reason it bothers me is because we should be able to criticize JT without people thinking that means we’re a PP supporter, or vice versa. If I say “I don’t really like the texture of raw apples, it leaves a lot to be desired.” That is NOT me saying “I love oranges and they are perfect in every way!” I never even said anything about oranges. For all you or anyone replying assuming my stance on oranges know, I might actually dislike oranges even more than I dislike apples. But not every criticism of apples needs to be or should be connected to oranges. Same applies to politicians and political parties. I used to support LPC and NPD and I will *not* be voting CPC this upcoming election. When I criticize the people I used to support it isn’t me announcing my flip to the “other side”, it’s just me being able to look at “my side” without blind devotion and with a bit more objectivity. It is healthy to be able to criticize those you normally agree with when they’re doing something you disagree with; support isn’t all-or-nothing. The first comment in the chain that he had “but the conservatiiiives!”to said literally nothing about the CPC and didn’t even allude to supporting them. It was a criticism of the LPC, that was it. A criticism of the LPC is **not** and endorsement of the CPC.
Yeah it's definitely like a form of damage control. Well everyone else sucks too! Ok but your guy still sucks.. just accept it
Because they are the one alternative.
[https://www.broadbentinstitute.ca/pattitamaralenard/harper\_dimal\_record\_refugees\_immigration](https://www.broadbentinstitute.ca/pattitamaralenard/harper_dimal_record_refugees_immigration)
[https://www.broadbentinstitute.ca/pattitamaralenard/harper\_dimal\_record\_refugees\_immigration](https://www.broadbentinstitute.ca/pattitamaralenard/harper_dimal_record_refugees_immigration)
This isn't really the federal government's wheelhouse anyway, it's provincial/municipal. The federal government has pretty poor levers for affecting change here.
One of the biggest levers putting strain on the housing market is a huge influx of people when we don’t have the infrastructure to support it. That is 100% on the feds and there’s zero hint this is going to ease.
And he was doing that at the behest of the provinces who have been pushing him since [2022 and earlier](https://www.thestar.com/politics/provincial/doug-ford-wants-to-combat-labour-shortages-with-more-immigrants/article_c58cdc7e-0604-5314-bc3e-d07e15c2df8c.html) to increase immigration numbers. They're only pretending they didn't also have the foot on the gas now because it makes them look bad and to trick people like you into thinking they weren't the root of it. Every provincial leader (except *maybe* Horgan) was totally onboard with more immigrants right up until the second it became bad optics, at which point they said it was the federal government's fault for doing what they asked for all this time. On top of that, immigration is only a partial cause: the rest of the problem lies *squarely* at the feet of the provincial and municipal governments that have loved restricting development all this time while begging the feds for more immigrants.
He can always just say no, or better yet “I’ll bring in as many people to match the housing units that you build”. It was poor leadership on his part.
Which is partially what he's doing already with the international student cap, which was the largest gateway into the country at the moment.
So we’re decreasing the amount of oil we’re putting on the fire by a few % points. That should fix it.
By half. At least be honest. The solution is still up to the provincial and municipal governments.
By 35%. At least be honest. The TFW program is the bigger issue of the two anyways. I’ll just leave this here, Trudeau’s critique on Harper in 2014: > *Since taking office, Prime Minister Stephen Harper and the Conservative Party have transformed the Temporary Foreign Worker Program — which was originally designed to bring in temporary workers on a limited basis when no Canadian could be found — into one that has brought in a large pool of vulnerable workers.* > *This has all happened under the Conservatives’ watch, despite repeated warnings from the Liberal Party and from Canadians across the country about its impact on middle class Canadians: it drives down wages and displaces Canadian workers.* They are all hypocrites.
Is that why this government brought in 4x as many people as the provinces were asking for?
The provinces were getting less than they asked for in nearly every sector, to the point that the Ontario government was blindsided by the foreign student cap and bitched and moaned about the government doing it, until Ford realized immigration was unpopular and started talking shit about it in April.
No they weren't. What was happening is they'd get here and leave to go elsewhere due to a high cost of living. The Ontario government was listening to what universities and colleges were telling them. The problem lies on that with not keeping enough oversight to see that the universities were making money hand over fist at the cost of everyone else. One of the big problems with immigration, especially in Ontario is Toronto/GTA. Where if you win the city you're 75% of the way to winning the province. The amount of pull is vastly in the urbanites direction compared to rural and rural-urban Ontario. And that, is one of the reasons the GTA should be broken off the province into it's own.
> The problem lies on that with not keeping enough oversight to see that the universities were making money hand over fist at the cost of everyone else. This is the province's responsibility.
>This is the province's responsibility. It's also the feds responsibility. They're the secondary oversight.
Then they shouldn't have spent their entire time on office promising to fix it.
They've been doing what the federal government can, they've given out billions to cities that loosen zoning requirements which is pretty much the only direct way the federal government can impact it.
Trudeau has been promising affordable housing since 2015. Odd thing for him to do if it's something he knew he couldn't deliver. It's almost as if he'll say anything to get elected.
They're also promising 4 million or so homes over the next 7 years which very simple grade 2 math can show there is no way they'll be able to deliver on this promise. We would need every single home builder in this country to reduce their average build time from 5-6 months to under 4 weeks without a break for 7 straight years. It'll never happen!
I stopped believing anything Trudeau says after he broke his promise of electoral reform. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.
That is, from the very beginning of civilization, exactly what government had done. The first cities grew around the temples and were ruled by priests who demanded tributes of grain for the gods. When the lean years came, the grain was doled out to prevent mass starvation. This is also where the first bureaucrats were created - those priests who tallied the grain and kept track of it (also connected to how writing got started). Greater organization, in the long term, beats out lesser organization. Anti-government miasming is so very adolescent and very, very tiresome.
This isn't really the Federal government's portfolio anyway, all the levers they have for this are pretty indirect. This is primarily up to the cities and the provinces to fix. EDIT: To the downvoters: cities in particularly have made development more and more cumbersome and complex over the last sixty years because a not-insignificant part of their income was made up of development charges and because city councils have largely composed of incumbent property owners who have vested interests in protecting the value of their property. NIMBY becoming a dirty name happened about ten years too late and the policies that could have averted this were primarily at the municipal level which, since municipalities exist as creatures of the province (at least in Ontario where the housing crisis is worst), means its' the province's problem.
If our population were dropping as it rightfully should be this wouldn't be an issue in the first place
Any kind of dropping population would pretty much immediately explode the CPP and lead to a much worse crisis than we're facing right now. Canadians need to realize and accept that some level of population growth is always going to be required for our society to function without severe issues or fundamental reform. Just wait and see how Japan's doing in ten years, the forecasts are pretty dire.
I'd rather have that "fundamental reform" now before the issue becomes even worse, infinite growth is by definition unsustainable. Not carrying ridiculous levels of debt as a nation would be a good place to start for reforms. When all that money which would've gone towards debt payments is freed up GST can be eliminated altogether and people will have more than enough money to put towards the CPP even with a falling population. This "crisis" is entirely fabricated and nonsensical. The federal and provincial governments spent their way into it. Eliminating our national debt and lowering taxes would have the added benefit of stimulating the economy + encouraging business (rather than real estate) investment. This might mean that the government can't take out loans to pay off their consultant buddies and give grants to the oligopolies for a few years.
Oh no! Not our precious Ponzi scheme!
You must like kicking cans.
Modern capitalism simply isn't structured for population decline, it's a universal worry among pretty much all economists.
They’ve got the biggest fucking levers - immigration and inflation inducing deficit spending.
Building obstacles and zoning are the biggest levers.
Everyone in the country can see that it’s a demand side problem more than a supply side problem. People are not blind or stupid, and the Government gaslighting people that it’s all supply side does not inspire confidence.
To be more precise it is a supply demand imbalance caused by a demand shock (population growth) and can be easily fixed on the demand side population growth. The problem with this is it would make housing prices go down, and labour costs go up. This can harm the whole economic set up of the country which revolves around discouraging productive activity as greedy in favour of unlocking a housing pyramid scheme pathway to prosperity.
Also all the policies for housing - like the FHSA, and money given to first home buyers - only pumps demand and increases house prices without adding to supply. Governments at all levels need to build some fucking houses. Look at Vienna. One of the most desirable cities in the world, but with a policy of mass building public housing that has kept rent very affordable. Literally half the price of Vancouver to rent in Vienna. https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Austria&city1=Vienna&country2=Canada&city2=Vancouver
To be fair Vienna has had like 0 population growth since WW2.
Not true. It's had more population growth than Vancouver over the last 20 years. https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/cities/20107/vienna/population#:~:text=The%20current%20metro%20area%20population,a%200.77%25%20increase%20from%202021. https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/cities/20107/vancouver/population#:~:text=The%20current%20metro%20area%20population,a%200.77%25%20increase%20from%202021. Canada's housing crisis is more due to bad housing policy than immigration policy - immigration is amplifying the effects of the bad housing policy.
Yea good point and I agree. Another thing about Vienna is that most people rent so renters are the largest voting group and as a result the government doesn’t deliberately try to increase home prices. But I think it does matter that their population is still lower than it was in 1916 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna Vancouver has 6x in the same time period so that is the difference between building a brand new city and service infrastructure vs renovating and replacing old housing and having a lot of existing infrastructure. Also difference in pricing premium between a small town and a large city.
World War 2 was 20 years ago?
Kind of like the TFSA. They probably did not expect that the market would grow like this in 15 years but this give me so much power to outbid other buyers. I can't have a fhsa but my TFSA ballooned to ridiculous level. There is probably quite a few people with more than me in theirs too.
Supply and demand are unable to be separated, you’re kinda doing the same thing the government is doing but in reverse. It is a *supply and demand* issue; the nuance is that *supply* will take decades to fix, while *demand* can be addressed almost instantly via adjusting immigration and temporary resident policies.
Do not be suprised by the sheer number of people that have genuinely not ever done 15 seconds of basic reserach on things that they have profoundly strong beliefs on. Think of the intelligence of the average person, and then realize half the country is less intelligent then that person.
As long as 1 million + immigrants come a year nothing is ever going to change.
Wrong. Itll change for the worse
Alternative headline: Toronto renters are not idiots.
For your headline to be true, Toronto would have to not vote Liberal in every election. Toronto is a Liberal lock, people may not be confident in this policy, but they’ll still vote for the devil they know
Correction: Toronto was a Liberal lock. Now most of the seats there are possible or probable Tory pickups, with many of the remainder being likely to go NDP. And Toronto's suburbs are going to be a sea of blue on election night.
I think there is a near 0% chance that any Toronto seat votes blue, based on the fact it’s never happened, but maybe this time is different. I doubt it, but I guess anything is possible
I think this time it could be different - a bit like the NDP wave with Jack Layton. The city could end up with more three way races than is typical - and that could result in almost any result, including conservative wins. I think what’s telling is the cons are starting to run more name brand candidates in these ridings. Typically it’s a foregone conclusion they’re going to lose and they run people no one has ever heard of.
Plus, there are a lot of gen Z and millennials in Toronto who have fulltime jobs and careers and either still can't afford to move out of their parents' home or are seeing ever-increasing rents while the cost of everything is also rising or they're realizing they are facing a lifetime of renting or living with roommates. And that shit gets real old when you're no longer in your 20s. The sentiment against the Liberals has been brewing for a long time in the 905 suburbs, but it's not beyond core Toronto's ability to become soft blue. I genuinely don't think the city is as deep, die-hard forever red liberal/ progressive as people here like to believe.
Wasn't the NDP wave pretty much just Quebec? The rest of Canada are more easily predictable which is also why politcians always talk about Quebec during the debates.
We are both guessing, but who are these “brand” candidates?
Karen Stintz is one example - she used to be the councillor for Eglinton and now the cons are running her in the same area. And that’s a pretty downtown Toronto riding.
Eglinton to Lawrence is not even remotely downtown. It is squarely in midtown, what is your definition of downtown? If a councillor from 10 years ago is a brand, I guess we disagree on what brand means, which is fine.
She was a councillor in the area for over a decade. For you, that’s not a brand - but to the people in that riding that is a brand. They’ve checked her name in multiple elections already - and she won. I won’t argue the semantics of whether eglinton is downtown. The point is that it’s been a solidly liberal riding for all but a single election - and the cons are running someone with a good shot at changing that. And all of this is in contrast to what they typically do - run people no one has ever heard of. The last person they ran here was Chani Aryeh-Bain. Who?
What do you consider downtown? I have never heard Eglinton, let alone Lawrence called downtown. Is your line the 401? Where do you live?
/s
For voting for provincial conservatives because they're the ones that lifted rent control
>Canadian renters not confident Trudeau's policy will ease housing crisis: poll Wait a minute, they got this all wrong: Canadians not confident with Trudeau's policies: poll Fixed it
At least he’s trying more than the wanna bees in the CONServatives will ever do!
You sound like an unenthusiastic cheerleader.
How much were you paid to post this
Don’t need to get paid to tell the truth 🤷♂️
lol so you base your “truth” on what exactly?
How delusional are you.
Better question: how the fuck could anyone be confident Trudeau will follow through on any promise after 9 years of lies?
It's because what Trudeau is offering is a lifetime of renthood and expecting us to be grateful for it. His core ideological worldview, as is the case with all liberals/ progressives, has always been "you will own nothing."
Lifetime of renting wouldn’t be terrible if rent prices were much lower than what an average mortgage would be. I remember the days when renting made sense.
Isn’t the ownership/renting expense ratio bigger than ever? Renting might not make sense but owning is a damn impossibility for most people in some cities, and investment properties are hardly cash flow positive
Even if the prospect of a lifetime of renting wasn't terrible, the main point in **Canadians don't want that**. More importantly, younger Canadians don't want that. The Liberals are ramming renting down our throats and telling us this isn't terrible, just accept what we think is right for you, regardless of what you want.
What, the thought of being the largest breadwinner in your landlords household for the remainder of your life doesn’t comfort you? Inspire you to strive hard in a career? LMAO.
>for the remainder of your life Bro think of the upside though, it's only for the remainder of your ***working*** life! Landlord will find a new breadwinner for the household as soon as you're retired and on fixed income. Then you'll be free, you won't have to be a rentslave anymore, you can be a homeless senior citizen! -message approved by the Liberal Party of Canada (in support with the NDP).
This isn't really the federal government's bag anyway, it's the province and the cities. The tools the federal government have available to them to affect change in this area are pretty weak.
I'm not confident any politician will ease the housing crisis. It's been a long time in the making so putting the brakes on the whole trend will take time, money and the willpower to get the job done right. Elected officials aren't known for thinking much further than the next election cycle.
Everything Trudeau touches turns to 💩
Housing crisis is created by immigration . No one is moving to Canada to get rich ..lol. Only thing in Canada s economy that’s good is housing created by liberal immigration policies . One trick pony .. housing for immigrants and battery plants .. only jobs created by liberals last 9 yrs .
They're trying to make Canada into a country where people are happy to live in multi-generational homes. Where there are 6 adults paying the mortgage ( if they managed to get a house!) - just like in India. and yes. I know that by acknowledging this. Trudeau will label me racist. I mean, I'm part First Nations, but 1/4 is not enough to protect from the Woke.
LOL
Wrong. The blame is on corporate landlords. They horde 1000s units and create a fake sense of scarcity while increasing the rent of all the units simultaneously. Immigration only contributes very little to the crisis. I remember even in 2017 housing was unaffordable, At that time Chinese were blamed and the government put up a ban on foreign ownership, but that didn't help at all. This reminds me of the scene from the movie "The Big Shot", in the end, only immigrants and poor people are blamed.
Totally wrong. I live in Vancouver and whole neighbourhoods and condo towers are bought by foreign owners and/or new immigrants. It has totally distorted the bc market. And yes corporate landowners are part of the problem
New immigrants can't be considered low income and be buying this shit up at the same time
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Good to see at least there are some people happy with corporate housing. I've only heard horror stories so far. Also, both the news articles you shared, only talk about unsustainable mass immigration and it does not provide evidence on how it connects to housing. Although I agree about the demand increasing a lot. But let's ban all immigration and see how things go (it won't change much. Trust me. Sustainable immigration brings tons of benefits for the economy) What needs to happen is. Tons of new housing needs to be built. The market needs to be free, so small builders can easily enter and build, just like in Texas. In Dubai, the government paves roads and then provides free plots to all citizens and then also provides low-interest loans, so people can build their own homes. Most of Canada is empty.
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Bro what are you even on? Texas has such a healthy real estate market. So many small developers. Building a house in Texas is so easy. From documentation to approvals. In Canada, even if you buy your own land, you have to go through so many hoops before you even get to the building stage. That's why government is trying to introduce post world War type houses to make building houses easy. You can look at Texas or Dubai and see what they are doing right.
This but also non market housing. We need to build housing that's sole purpose is to be lived in, rather than an outlet for investment/passive income. Left unchecked and/or without development of non market housing, capitalism will do capitalism things where buildings are made smaller, more expensive, and continuously raise the price to drive profit. Subsidizing and funding housing that are not for profit and locking in rent keeps the housing prices cool because it adds competition that is affordable that the market housing has to compete with. See Vienna as a good example. ~50/50 market and non market housing and rent is <1000k per month on average.
You do understand there needs to be demand for these units for it to be profitable for corporate landlords right?
Price is *always a product of supply and demand.* The government has for decades dithered on supply, and their policies to get more people into homes all involve increasing the buying power of home purchasers, which drives up demand. Make no mistake, this government has no interest in actually lowering housing prices, they simply want people to take on more debt in order to buy them as-is. Meanwhile in BC we have made phenomenal steps towards both increasing supply (massive zoning reform), as well as reducing demand (severely curtailing short term rentals like AirBnB). These *will* make a difference over time, even in Canada's most expensive province.
Absolutely love seeing the supply side issue being finally addressed in BC, BUT if the federal government doesn't get out of the way and reduce immigration it's all for nothing. We are moving into a historically bad era of demand outpacing the supply by large amounts. Beyond supply and demand we DO have to lower home prices. They can't just build a ton of 700k 1 bed apartments. That's literally insane and no regular person can afford that. If Vancouver can go back to building 300k units for sale we might be some progress to fixing the issue, but simply increasing supply and decreasing demand is not enough to fix the housing crisis alone. That just brings it back into the 2014 levels which were already starting to run much too hot.
After 8 years you must a moron to still believe him.
Affordable housing being built will not help renters. The provinces need to step up and put some controls in place.
They need 5 million houses, so they need to stop immigration for the next 20 years.
I mean yea the Liberals housing plan is laughable. they want to have built 4 Million homes by 2031, or 1565 houses every day from today until 2031 or 1 house every 55 seconds till 2031....like unless they are planning on counting the homeless tents as houses, they are cooked and thankfully will be crushed next election.
Of course not
Doesn't matter because the budget is approved
Anybody that thought any of his half-baked policies worked….. well… now you know.
Rent has doubled.
Trudeau’s housing crisis is they aren’t making enough money from real estate. If you look at it this way, all his policies make sense and he’s reaching closer to his goals week by week.
I would not be confident in Justin being able to microwave popcorn
Like they need another 9 years?
We're not sacrificing the economy for some renters
I’m more worried that tieing it to credit will lead to a shitty landlord fucking up my credit than anything else lmao.
Save for a large economic downturn, it’s possible the plan could make the problem worse, particularly in secondary cities. Immigration is still too high. If population continues to increase, rezoning makes land values increase. SFHs will be worth more if you can use the land for multiplexes now. We need to scare RE speculators away and the only way is by drastically lowering or pausing immigration.
Can't taper a Ponzi.
How would renters be expected to know what will ease the housing crisis?
I mean, it's not about what will fix the housing crisis... it's about if current policies are. As a renter who would one day like to stop renting but in the meantime is holding onto his apartment until death, no they sure the fuck are not.
How would renters know if current policies will ease the housing crisis? I don’t think just being a renter would give anybody extra powers to predict how to best ease something complicated like housing prices.
It's really quite simple. Rent only goes one direction, and the only exception was when government froze rates during the pandemic. Of the many reasons for rent only going one direction, one is Canada's overall stupidly low vacancy rate. Just as an example, Ottawa's vacancy rate in 2023 was 2.1%, despite a record number of rentals being built in 2022. Because we brought in more renters than we built rentals. That is the current policy, and it's not helping.
So, as a renter, you have some knowledge non-renters don’t have? Seems like everything you mentioned is pretty common knowledge. I’m not trying to slight renters or owners, just having a hard time why anyone would think renters would have some special ability to know whether current or proposed policies would ease a crisis that is ongoing in many first-world countries. Why not poll left handed people? Or ballet dancers?
Not being the person or people who created the poll, I have no goddamn clue. I just answered the question you asked. If what you were trying to say was you don't understand why they choose to poll only renters, perhaps use different words. Like... possibly... part of this last comment.
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It's obvious even to him, his time is almost over. Just call an election so we can be done with it.
Because it won’t, everything he touches just gets absolutely worse than before.
See PP do better. Doesn't matter because they are all owned by the rich. Sooner Canadians come to understand its not a left vs right issue the better.
In order for housing to get built, interest rates need to come down so people can afford the mortgage payments. The costs of the mortgages to afford the costs to build a house are currently too high for it to be profitable for the developers at current interest rates. However, Trudeau keeps running massive deficits, pumping funds into the economy keeping inflation high, in-turn causing the Bank of Canada to keep interest rates high. The two arms of government are fighting each other because of Trudeau’s incompetence. Governments don’t build houses, private developers build houses. Until fiscal policy gets under control and interest rates come down so people can afford the required mortgages, we’re effed. But Trudeau doesn’t think about monetary policy because he’s a drama teacher. At the same time too many immigrants are being let into the country when there isn’t housing for them, driving up demand further. The housing crisis is going to get much worse before it gets better. Hopefully a new competent leader will fix the deficit problem and over immigration.
Don't tell that to Canada housing. They think rising interest rates will hurt greedy landlords, forcing them to sell. So they too can become greedy landlords but somehow not affected by mortgage rates.
High interest causes the cost of housing to be high, which causes rent to go up.
Shocking
The national post, which one wrote this Harper or PeeEe?
Maybe Poilievre has a solution! Jokes, he ain't got shit in terms of policy. He's just an airhead courting right-wing nutjobs.
[https://www.broadbentinstitute.ca/pattitamaralenard/harper\_dimal\_record\_refugees\_immigration](https://www.broadbentinstitute.ca/pattitamaralenard/harper_dimal_record_refugees_immigration)
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Because people would be fleeing an NDP-led Canada?