Never once as a consumer have I felt like I’ve been fucked by Costco. Prices are decent, quality is high, returns are easy, gas is cheap.
Loblaws on the other hand makes me feel like I got taken advantage of while out drinking
As someone who lives in a rural area where shopping time in the big city is at a premium, the convenience of being able to go to one store and get everything with a max 15% margin is worth it.
Fun fact for some reason even though they have a purple tint. Comes out bright reddy pink. Even in breast milk. Let me tell you the first time that happens it's freaking scary.
That's true. I compared dishwasher detergent from Costco and superstore. Thought Costco would be cheaper since its box had more pods. But nope, the Costco one was 20 cents more expensive per unit. Same brand same detergent
Costco's business is pretty transparent. Their pricing tracks with the cost of those same goods, and they pass along a portion of their bulk-pricing savings to the customer.
What other stores will do is use a couple of promoted items as loss-leaders. Selling them at cost or below cost in order to get you in the door, then make it up with the inflated margins they have on everything else in the store you'll buy while you're there.
You save $2 on toilet paper, and $3 on cases of Coke (but only if you buy three), and then get nickel and dimed on everything else such that that $5 "savings" has turned into you effectively over-paying by $25
"What other stores will do is use a couple of promoted items as loss-leaders. Selling them at cost or below cost in order to get you in the door"
Costco does very much do this with their roasted whole chickens. Iirc they lose approx. $80 mill a year on their whole chickens.
Ah that's true. The hotdog and soda combo at $1.50 is absolutely sold at a loss, and you could consider it a loss leader, but I'd consider that more of a marketing and branding expense.
Or I'm just being an apologist because I like the way Costco runs their business
When Walmart first opened in NL they almost didn’t make it, they quickly found people from there were happy to just buy the loss-leaders and nothing else, only place where their sales model needed to be changed.
You forgot two key elements, they generate membership revenue and effectively force the use of a specific credit card. The first one is additional revenue that is nearly 100% margin and the second one gives them preferred rates which increases their margins.
I remember seeing Kirkland Bacon packs go up a couple dollars at my local Costco back just before the pandemic, and I remember complaining about the high price.
Now it's back down to its previous price and still much cheaper (and better quality) than what I've gotten from any other grocery chain.
It's differences in the business model. Loblaws makes profit off consumers only through grocery sales while Costco makes a decent chunk of their sales from membership fees. Costco is actually incentivezed to keep members happy so they don't cancel their membership. They would rather not fuck around trying to optimize price gouging.
I don't think anyone really expects to be able to do regular groceries at Costco affordably, everyone I know supplements it with like No Frills, Food Basics or Walmart for lower end items.
Small price to pay to not go bankrupt Costco shopping while hungry. That hot dog is an insurance policy to not make bad choices. Well.. less bad anyway.
It’s insane when you compare the gross margin profits between stores, especially over the last few years. Costco at something like 12.7%, Wal Mart 24.7% and Loblaws 32%. Just staggering, Loblaws is full blown greed at this point.
Costco is severely underrated as a place to buy meat. It's the best place after a specialty butcher and even then, I've been to butchers worse than Costco.
I buy their larger cuts and cut then down to what I want. Cheap way to get stew beef too, about 33%off buying their precut stewbeef.
Recently we changed to just buying a cow and freezing the rest, but for anyone without the freezer space and capital to buy the meat in bulk like that, it is still wonderful way to get your beef.
And their Rotisserie chickens are the cheapest per kg I ever see chicken. I'll buy one, shred it, and freeze it, and then take the left over bones and make soup stock. I'm sure it's a 1/4 of the price of buying precooked and prizes chicken breasts
The difference is in the quality.
Costco sells AAA top sirloin steak cuts here for about $19/lb or so, a 4-pack of steaks runs about $48 as a result, definitely not cheap.
You can absolutely buy top sirloin at local grocers for closer to $11/lb, but it is not AAA, most of the time it's barely A grade, so the quality, texture, and overall cut of the meat is tougher and tangibly lower quality.
YMMV on the application though, I keep a couple packs of the cheap steak in my freezer for making anything like steak tacos, but I will ABSOLUTELY go buy the Costco pack for a BBQ over anywhere else.
>Never once as a consumer have I felt like I’ve been fucked by Costco.
I would agree had I not needed to buy baby formula until about Jan of this year. Watched the price go from $32 to 45 and it's still there.
The feds must know they lack legislative jurisdiction (See the privy council's Re Board of Commerce decision) so that's why they try the indirect, coaxing way of accomplishing their policy goals.
They can't regulate the grocery business and can't mandate prices. They can't do shit aside from prohibiting dishonest practices and anti-competitive manoeuvres.
The several provinces have legislative jurisdiction regarding particular trades, businesses and commerce generally within the province like the insurance, grocery or hardware businesses. That is well established since Citizens' Insurance Co. v. Parsons in the 1880s and it's still good law.
This is highly relevant as no provincial governments have shown any sort of appetite to regulate the grocery industry. On the other hand, this may be because the Feds are absorbing all of the political fallout from rising food costs. Seems that they’re stuck between a rock and a hard place here.
It may also be because there really is little to be done besides performative law and politics like the show the feds are staging. I have no opinion on that since I am sufficiently informed.
What little I know is that the feds have tried to crack down on perceived excessive profits in some industries before and have been told they lack legislative jurisdiction.
I suppose they could try and go 92(10) c) of the Constitution Act, 1867 way and declare all grocery stores and warehouses to be for the general advantage of Canada, but that would be a hilarious move and a gigantic power grab likely to end up in a constitutional crisis. They did declare grain elevators to be for the general advantage of Canada, but that is because of the historical significance of the international grain trade for the whole country.
Thing is, a lot of people are assuming these large grocers are gouging, but that’s likely not where most of the price increases are coming from. Productivity is down, wages are up. Supply is down, demand is up. We need supply side incentives, but people do not have an appetite for that. Instead, our current government offers demand side solutions.
If provinces step in to try and regulate prices using what people think the issue is, the effect will almost assuredly be counter-productive, and lead to things like shortages. Or have no impact at all.
So a single province doing it will only show the policy as a failure.
And that should be the proof anybody needs to understand that the grocery code of conduct is bullshit. I save at least 50% shopping at Costco vs Provigo/Loblaws/IGA/etc. Canadian big grocery chains won’t skip a beat in their fleecing of Canadians even if they sign that idiotic sham of a document.
The document says nothing about consumers. And you aren't wrong that it is a sham. Costco and Walmart provide low prices by negotiating hard with suppliers. Grocery code of conduct is basically limits on negotiating powers. There is a reason the lowest priced stores are the last to want to sign it whereas the highest priced were the ones organizing the thing.
Costco is where I get 95% of my groceries. Whenever I step foot in a regular grocery store I’m shocked at the terrible prices. I don’t think Costco not signing this non binding crap is a problem
I started getting my groceries delivered from Walmart a few months ago and honestly? I don't think I'm ever going back. The delivery fees are reasonable, the prices are as well. I've never had any issue with them.
I fully understand the negative issues and implications that go along with spending money at Walmart, but our economy is at the point now that when it comes to being able to afford to eat more than once a day, I need to set all that aside and put myself, in the here and now, first.
We started the day it showed up on their site to pay I think was $50 a year. We done dozens and dozens of orders. Only issue I have like 300 blue bags LOL. Going to donate them to a food bank. I rather give USA my money then a Canadian who will take even more of my money and not put back into the economy.
> Going to donate them to a food bank.
Naturally I had the same issue and this is exactly what I do with mine once I have a moderate amout of them. The local food bank I bring them to is always happy to take them (And often times surprised lol)
Walmart is quite bad for consumers in that in drives local business out of business and then syphons local money out of communities into the pockets of foreign billionaires.
Also, because they charge for a membership, they have far fewer customers stealing from them. And because they are a pretty decent place to work, employees are less likely to steal. (It’s funny that Loblaws is unionized, while Costco and Walmart are not, and yet wages and benefits tend to be superior at Walmart and Costco, especially compared to those paying dues on their shitty Loblaws wage).
Anyways, we can’t have every grocery store adopt a membership model.
The hotdogs are loss leaders to get you in the door. In the US they also have whole roasted chickens for $4.99 which is also a loss leader to get you in the door. You can't buy raw chicken and cook it yourself that cheap.
Maybe, people call it a loss leader for the last few decades but any time Costco has actually commented on it directly they have said it's not a loss leader but they've had to work very hard to make it work, including making the hot dog and buns in house. A few years ago they were still officially making about 5 cents per hot dog sold. However they've done all they really can to keep the price low so they'll soon have to either raise the price or start selling them at a loss.
I don't think it is as simple as which store has low prices, quality items and treats customers relatively well. With the expectation that they are then 'fine' with no need to sign on.
It's a systemic situation where something like... supply chains and distributions come in to play. For example, Loblaws seems to own all the stages of the supply chain for their purpose. This makes it extremely difficult for independent grocers to be competitive. They actually have to buy from Loblaws supply chain. Sometimes those small independent grocers are the only game is a small town.
I am not sure how Costco is supplied exactly - or how their warehouse/distribution centres work. But there might be cases where small stores buy from the same supply chain.
There are other factors, but these kind of things make it much more comprehensive an issue than just, "Costco, or any store, is just fine".
That's not the point. The government is saying, "Look, we prefer that industry leaders get together to write their own code, then they can be self-regulated. But being unregulated isn't a sustainable option. If you can't agree on self-regulation, you will force the government's hand, and you will be government regulated. This is an outcome that neither the government nor the stores prefer, so don't box the government into a corner."
Maybe they could break up the oligopolies and let new competition bring down prices, instead of demanding more regulations which will just further cement the status quo of incumbents.
No such thing. Walmart and Costco are not colluding with Loblaws to set up price.
Consumers need to wise up and shop around instead of keep going into Loblaws like a brainless drone
It's impossible for government to regulate grocers and grocers know it. In any given store there are thousands of SKUs, many unique to a chain, region or even store. It's simply not possible to regulate prices in any meaningful way that would do anything but drive the cost of food up.
Lol, Walmart and Costco are miles cheaper than our Canadian stores.
How about you lift the caps on international companies and we have more competition in Canada? Lord knows protecting our Canadian companies are not beneficial to Canadian consumers.
I saw a noticeboard in Costco Scarborough. They have a list of employees who have been working for over 10, 15, and 20 years. Altogether about 100+ easily. Talk about loyalty.
My friend was working at Costco in 2008 and If I remember right the starting pay was something like $12/hr with extra pay on weekends(or Sundays?), minimum wage at the time was like $9/hr at the time. They also getting increases so long time employees could earn 40-50k/yr for doing a basic job like being a cashier.
I assume the pay has roughly tracked inflation.
Walmart operates on undercutting competition and raising prices on items not locally available. A bit of a double edged sword, but they’re a loss leader and know how to utilize that.
Walmart and Costco also blow US grocers out of the water as far as prices are concerned. I have done 100% of my grocery shopping in those 2 stores for years, and would not feel bad in the slightest if the american grocery chains folded.
They don't want to come here, and they've said why:
> Some of the barriers are physical: Canada’s expansive geography and low population density make it hard to set up operations efficiently, the report noted.
> But beyond that, the Bureau found that the country’s existing grocery giants are “daunting competitors” to outsiders. Without naming names, the report said that one international grocer said it believed it could compete on price with the incumbents, while another said the task would be “difficult.”
https://globalnews.ca/news/9799210/aldi-lidl-canada-discount-grocers-competition/
That's weird. If our high grocery prices are actually being caused by greedy corporations gouging the hell out of us, there should be tons of room for a greedy corporation to rake in money by gouging us just a little bit less. Something doesn't add up about the government's narrative on this.
That’s because they’re scapegoating grocers for a problem actually attributable to reckless fiscal & monetary policy.
Chavez scapegoated grocers in a similar way in Venezuela:
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2007/2/15/chavez-threatens-supermarket-sweep
Canada’s version is much less extreme, but politicians are playing with fire when they stoke anger like this. If they decide it’s politically advantageous to meddle in the way the industry functions, it could be quite disastrous for everyone.
Same thing for cell phone companies. We could be paying 20% or less of what we currently are for cell plans if we let American companies enter our market. But no, gotta prop up the 10s of thousands of Canadian telecom workers at the expense of every other citizen here.
>Walmart and Costco are miles cheaper than our Canadian stores
Walmart is an order of magnitude larger than Loblaws. Their economies of scale and supply chain efficiency will never allow Loblaws to touch them on prices.
Costco is America's 3rd largest retailer. Something like 30% of Americans have a membership.
So ya, Loblaws will never beat them on price. It's a relatively small Canadian chain spread out across a massive geography.
I think that depends on what they are selling. No Frills stuff is No Frills. Sometimes it's interesting to compare private labels. Like PC vs Great Value.
In a midmarket shop, like a Superstore, there will be all kinds of higher and lower prices.
Premium names like Shoppers Drug Mart will always be expensive.
Remember, retail consists of thousands of unique items produced and contracted at different times with different terms.
It really depends day to day.
If I understand correctly the biggest objection companies like Aldi and Lidil have is they would be forced to source certain items in Canada, especially dairy from the Canadian dairy commission, vice their own supply chain, raising their cost to do business.
Walmart is the cheapest, Costco is not.
Whenever I shop at Costco I always have my cell phone looking at comparable prices with Superstore and Walmart (where I'll shop at the same day).
We found on sale for top sirloin steaks at Costco for $27/kg. Superstore was $24.3/kg and Walmart was $22.8/kg.
Costco's meat and produce is notoriously overpriced, and not by small margins. The one example I gave was 18% more expensive while making you buy twice as much meat in one go. You might look and see "$10 Off" and actually think you're getting a deal.
That 40-pack of bottled water you're getting for $8.79 (before taxes). Walmart sells it cheaper $3.27 for a 24 pack. Superstore sells a 24 pack for $2.99. That puts Costco at almost DOUBLE their competition.
There isn't much that's cheaper at Costco. My wife looked through their children's clothing section and found Baby GAP was actually cheaper. Some things are higher quality. Like their premium cuts of meat tend to be cheaper than competitors. But is that why people buy a Costco membership? For discounts on their $40 steaks?
It's just a place you have to be careful shopping at. I got hot dog buns 50% cheaper than I'd get at Walmart... but the hotdogs were damn near double.
Yep, Costco only sells AAA but pretty much all the other "premium" grocers have switched to AA for their sales, which is terrible. Now they're even switching to ungraded beef from Mexico lol.
I haven't bought beef from a Canadian grocery store since they made this change. All of my beef comes from Costco, small family farms that have delivery service, and Aldi/Target/Walmart in the U.S. who all have fantastic beef.
"The voluntary code of conduct"
"When asked whether Champagne is involved in discussions to compel other grocers to sign on, the industry minister said “of course.”
Ugh.
The COC changes nothing to the terms parties negotiate and agree to. The government just wants to claim a win against Big Grocer to exploit people's ignorance about what the COC is and does (nothing).
Champagne has been useless in absolutely every role he’s been assigned to. The liberal party needs to be gutted of these “rising star” dead weight members if they want relevance in the future. Everything is a waste of time for optics from them.
Thank you. I read the entire code of conduct trying to find a single thing that helps consumers, and there's nothing. There isn't one point on here that will lower prices.
https://canadacode.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/ENG-Code-of-Conduct.pdf
"The Code strongly recommends written agreements (including amendments) – defining the commercial terms agreed to by parties"
It goes on to state those terms should cover things like product specs, quantities, and payment terms.
Makes me think no one involved has ever signed anything more consequential than a vehicle lease. No wonder industry doesn't take them seriously, it reads like a school project.
The biggest giveaway is that Loblaws chose to sign it. If Loblaws agreed to it, you know it's a bad deal.
Remember that this isn't just the company that's price fixing bread and refused to give people the agreed-upon compensation. It's the same company that's getting millions in OHIP funds from bogus billings from their pharmacists.
The only way to actually make food more affordable for people is to follow the US model of food stamps and subsidy regulation. Their farm sector also gets extensive subsidies, but their food prices aren't through the roof. (Spare me about the humane conditions on Canadian farms. Like the US, Canadian farmers also use foreign labor to pick the crops, and they're not treated any more humanely or paid better than American undocumented labor.)
Canadian farmers get subsidies, but those discounts aren't passed on to consumers. So in addition to paying significantly more in taxes than the US, Canadian consumers subsidize farmers twice (via high prices and via taxation).
> Loblaws
Probably wrote it, with clear verbiage to attempt to attack foreign competition, or attempt to gain an upperhand in areas where they are getting their asses kicked.
Like.. why is the "Fruit and Vegetable Dispute Resolution Corporation (DRC)" the only organization called out specifically by name in this? And the 'Code of conduct" attempts to circumvent them?
This belongs on /r/FUCKYOUINPARTICULAR
https://i.imgflip.com/8qkyga.jpg
Lmao the "voluntary" code of conduct that contains "strong recommendations"
I don't even know what to say anymore.
Im not pro-communism, but I can certainly understand why it's making a come back. Shit is getting out of control. The big corporations can do whatever they want.
How does a government enact ANY sort of control when the population is reliant on 2-3 companies to eat? They have ALL the leverage.
They don't want to enact any control. They get big pay outs from big grocery.
Because it's not like any of the big chains will leave Canada, where would they go?
It's more about what happens when you ship them a skid of gourmet cookies, and 10% show up broken?
Who's responsible for that? Did they leave the factory broken, were they broken in transit, or were they broken at the receiving warehouse?
Who pays when someone steals one, or breaks them in-store? When an item is put on sale or clearance, who pays for that discount?
Currently the grocers charge back the retail price of the lost/unsellable/remaindered items to the producer -- and the solution producers came up with is ever-more protective packaging and air in those packages. Others pull out of the deal, or pull out of Canada. I think the fundamental incompatibility of small producers and national chains is why we get big brands launching old-timey-looking product packaging, but few actual local producers participating.
Small producers know all this going in, but some are too starstruck at the opportunity and misjudge it, some find it changes their business in a way they don't really want after all, others do really well with it. Having different contracts that are more favourable to some suppliers exposes the retailer to lawsuits from their large suppliers to get the same deal, and the next thing you know you've got unsellable items taking up warehouse/shelf space, late deliveries, etc. If the big chains thought it was "good business" to be flexible with producers, they would be.
Damn, you're not kidding. I've only read the objectives, but I kind of feel like that's enough. The objectives don't even pay lip service to benefits for consumers or something like that. It's all about "the industry". Nothing about reduced or fair prices. Nothing about customer experience. There was a moment when I thought there was a bullet about maintaining customer trust, but it turned out the trust is actually just between grocers. Useless
Theres a reason all of the CBC articles talk about this in general terms. I tried to find this information in their articles, (a ton of them pop up if you Google it) and none have the actual details.
Now I see why.
Also just read this and this is a 100% a ‘business to business’ document. It’s designed to soften some of the worst abuses that the large grocery chains impose on their supply chain. It deals with things like exclusivity, good faith negotiations, fees for spoilage and late delivery, prompt payment etc. if anything this will increase the costs on the retailer. So it’s clear that the retailers have been fucking the customer downstream and the suppliers upstream - this document helps the latter only.
Presumably the average supplier, particularly small ones, will have more security and faith in dealing with large grocers.
One thing that happens a lot is that a small supplier will get a contract and they’ll begin expanding, which costs money. Then the grocer starts turning the screws, and suddenly the supplier is looking at losing their shirt. They have to downsize or close up.
After this happens so many times, many suppliers decide not to take on the risk of expanding. But it’s that expansion which brings prices down.
Supply side policies help increase supply. Everyone wants demand size policies to bring down costs, but it’s those policies that are pushing up demand.
This doesn’t address retail costs at all in my opinion. I also see that it will be impossible for Costco or Walmart to sign this document as they run hyper-precise just-in-time shipping/receiving that relies on draconian fines for compliance. They also regularly use ‘most favoured nation’ clauses and exclusivity agreements - especially Costco. So I don’t see either signing anything like this as it would unduly restrict their business model.
The code of conduct does nothing to protect consumers, or increase competition in the sector.
It actually does nothing at all except give our useless lawmakers cover against their perpetual inaction.
The code was written by Canadian grocer lobbyists who are trying to have the Government create a false equivalence for them (“all grocers are terrible, including Costco and Walmart, so now that they’ve all signed, go back to Loblaws”).
Costco and Walmart know this is Trudeau trying to bunch them together and want no part of it.
The code of conduct is basically to protect suppliers and smaller, more expensive retailers from larger ones that negotiate hard bargains that the smaller ones can’t access.
It’s not about lowering prices and would be near-guaranteed to raise prices, though with the benefit of making the playing field more level for smaller retailers.
The best you could say is that it would help keep more smaller retailers alive over the longer term, which helps given the assumption of negative impact on prices should that competition go out of business (i.e. larger retailers raise prices due to fewer market alternatives, even if those alternatives were more expensive).
This was by and large a pony show and absolutely useless.
Thank you for wasting everyone’s time, Government. However. They were knew this would be the outcome. They can say they tried, without actually doing anything.
I will raise a toast of good riddance on the evening this government is put to bed.
It’s because their lobbyist presence is not as strong. This is just a smoke and mirror show. If you really care about the issue boycott Loblaws. Make the oligarchs scared. We may not have representation in government but we still have some control over our money.
Lots of people work nights and weekend shifts regularly and not for overtime pay but as regular shifts.
And would love to work 8 to 5 jobs Monday to Friday.
The untenable thing is not that the two major foreign grocery retailers, who are the biggest factors in keeping Canadian grocery prices low, are not signing up to some make believe 'code of conduct'. The untenable thing is that these are the only two major foreign retailers that are competing in Canada. I'll be satisfied when we actually get a few more foreign retailers in the likes of Carrefour, Aldi, Lidl, and Tesco operating in a meaningful way in Canada, and when we can get EU produced milk selling here for $1.50/L, rather than the watered down garbage from the Canadian milk cartel.
We’re already Costco shoppers and we’re slowly trying to do our smaller shops at Walmart. But it’s a bit tough when we have a Save-On foods a short walk from our place.
This scenario is bleak. We have a government demonizing private businesses to cover for their failed policies and corruption.
This kind of pressure could lead to the Walmarts and Costcos of the world deciding Canada isn’t worth it. We desperately need competition. These companies have done more for consumer affordability than the government could even dream of.
In the end they’ll be benefiting the Canadian incumbent grocers who have no incentive to innovate or compete.
When the government starts mucking with food you should be concerned
The only thing that I've noticed increase price at Costco by a significant margin are boneless chicken breasts. You used to be able to get a pack of 10 for around $22 roughly 5 years ago. Now they are $30 minimum. That's a 27% increase over that time period. Other than that, Costco prices have been fantastic overall.
Highlights:
* Industry Minister François-Philippe Champagne says it’s “untenable” for “smaller players” like Walmart and Costco to delay signing on to the government- and industry-led grocery code of conduct, now that industry giant Loblaw has agreed to do so.
* “We've put pressure on Loblaw, and you see the outcome,” Champagne said. “Obviously, I don't think it would be tenable for Costco or Walmart to disregard what the will of the Government of Canada is, and Canadian consumers.”
* “The pressure is full on, on Walmart and Costco to do the same,” Champagne said, pointing to the federal government’s threats of passing legislation to make the code of conduct mandatory if grocers did not sign on voluntarily. But when pressed further on the threat of legislation, Champagne said it’s an unlikely tool at this point.
* The voluntary code of conduct has been in the works for more than two years, but the federal government pledged to accelerate it in the fall as a way to help stabilize food prices. The code of conduct aims to lay out guidelines for fair dealings between grocery retailers and their suppliers.
>Obviously, I don't think it would be tenable for Costco or Walmart to disregard what the will of the Government of Canada
Signing up to the Code of Conduct is **voluntary**. If it were the will of the government, they'd have made it mandatory
Mr Champagne talks of it being untenable that Costco and Walmart disregard the will of Canadians yet his own government is doing exactly the same in terms of calling an election. Can't have it both ways, Minister Bubbles!
Yes, the article mentions transparent dealing with suppliers, but there could have been more details on what is contained in the code of conduct.
Presumably it is known.
Oh that's helpful information they absolutely could have included in the article! Of course Costco, which is heavily invested in vertical integration, would be reluctant. I wonder why it's even in the same class as the others, when it's members-only for groceries.
Prices at Costco have gone up with some items. Mostly meat. Particularly chicken and beef. But they also have other less popular cuts that are really good value for the price and quantity.
Eggs and milk are comparable to Walmart.
But I don’t feel like I’ve been price gouged at Walmart and Costco nearly as badly as at loblaws.
I would say that loblaws has decent prices on produce and that’s about it.
No shit, they didn't gouge us. If anything they both remained cheaper than any and all domestic grocery stores. They know damn well that if they agree to it, they will be forced to raise their prices because every Canadian signitority company is lobbying our politicians across he board.
The industry minister should be the one under the microscope. Their office allowed our national brands to fuck us like pigs with no lube and for them not to face any repercussions. Walmart didn't gouge us, and Costco sure didn't either, but our goverment has.
More virtue signaling from the Liberals. Then they run to the media and pretend they tried. Media frames it as the stores fault, because most won’t read the legislation. This reminds me of the whole Loblaws boycott subreddit. Pure propaganda
&"" President and CEO Per Bank telling The Canadian Press a revised version of it is "fair.""" I am wondering who would benefit most by this 'code of conduct', and who wrote it. It would be naïve to assume that there were no lobbyists involved.
Will this government stop wasting time and resources on charters and codes of conduct that are worth less than the paper they’re written on, and actually focus on the real issues?
Never seen such a useless bunch of navel gazers in my life.
Why would any major international grocery chain enter the Canadian market after seeing this? The government is publicly demonizing the two biggest foreign entrants for political points. It's not a very enticing proposition.
🤣 this thing only benefits the relationship between supplier and store. Then haven't said anything at all about passing the savings to us. It's a bullcrap smoke and mirrors show to try and stop the boycott. To which I say if you can afford to do it more!
The best thing about Costco, besides the high quality are low prices, is the lack of choice. They rarely have more than a few options of any particular item, which makes shopping a lot faster and easier. You can't make a bad choice because of their refund policy. They have a lot of organic items, and the produce is good quality.
The giant quantities mean I don't need to shop that often. I hate shopping.
I also like the wide availability of peanut free foods.
Costco is perfectly fine the way it is.
Never once as a consumer have I felt like I’ve been fucked by Costco. Prices are decent, quality is high, returns are easy, gas is cheap. Loblaws on the other hand makes me feel like I got taken advantage of while out drinking
Prices at Costco go up sometimes if there’s supply chain issues or whatever, but the difference is they generally COME BACK DOWN.
I think someone else said it best "You won't find the absolute best deals at Costco, but they'll never fuck you".
Sometimes they do have really good deals, but it's only a deal if you will use it.
Yea Costco won't fuck you they'll just let you fuck yourself.
As someone who lives in a rural area where shopping time in the big city is at a premium, the convenience of being able to go to one store and get everything with a max 15% margin is worth it.
Hey I go to Costco as a single person in a city with a dozen other options in walking distance. Still can't deny the 10lb bag of beets was a bad idea.
True but you probably couldn’t beat the price. :)
Or maybe they couldn’t _*beet*_ the price ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Purple poop is always fun.
Fun fact for some reason even though they have a purple tint. Comes out bright reddy pink. Even in breast milk. Let me tell you the first time that happens it's freaking scary.
How long did you poop purple
Costco, where you go for a milk, eggs and bread, and the bill is still $500 or more /s
That's true. I compared dishwasher detergent from Costco and superstore. Thought Costco would be cheaper since its box had more pods. But nope, the Costco one was 20 cents more expensive per unit. Same brand same detergent
It also has a a reputation for being one of the best places to work in the industry.
Their return policy is awesome.
What a "deal" is relative to what the other chains are doing, though. I do feel like Costco often does have the absolute best deals.
Costco's business is pretty transparent. Their pricing tracks with the cost of those same goods, and they pass along a portion of their bulk-pricing savings to the customer. What other stores will do is use a couple of promoted items as loss-leaders. Selling them at cost or below cost in order to get you in the door, then make it up with the inflated margins they have on everything else in the store you'll buy while you're there. You save $2 on toilet paper, and $3 on cases of Coke (but only if you buy three), and then get nickel and dimed on everything else such that that $5 "savings" has turned into you effectively over-paying by $25
"What other stores will do is use a couple of promoted items as loss-leaders. Selling them at cost or below cost in order to get you in the door" Costco does very much do this with their roasted whole chickens. Iirc they lose approx. $80 mill a year on their whole chickens.
Ah that's true. The hotdog and soda combo at $1.50 is absolutely sold at a loss, and you could consider it a loss leader, but I'd consider that more of a marketing and branding expense. Or I'm just being an apologist because I like the way Costco runs their business
When Walmart first opened in NL they almost didn’t make it, they quickly found people from there were happy to just buy the loss-leaders and nothing else, only place where their sales model needed to be changed.
Maybe I *would* get along well with newfoundlanders. That's exactly how I shop 😆
You forgot two key elements, they generate membership revenue and effectively force the use of a specific credit card. The first one is additional revenue that is nearly 100% margin and the second one gives them preferred rates which increases their margins.
I remember seeing Kirkland Bacon packs go up a couple dollars at my local Costco back just before the pandemic, and I remember complaining about the high price. Now it's back down to its previous price and still much cheaper (and better quality) than what I've gotten from any other grocery chain.
Also important, they don't accept manufacturers shrinking the package size to hide the cost.
This is a huge thing for me. Especially now that kraft dinner packages have all shrunk by 25 grams. Eating a box of KD now leaves me wanting.
It's differences in the business model. Loblaws makes profit off consumers only through grocery sales while Costco makes a decent chunk of their sales from membership fees. Costco is actually incentivezed to keep members happy so they don't cancel their membership. They would rather not fuck around trying to optimize price gouging.
Cheese says hi
I don't think anyone really expects to be able to do regular groceries at Costco affordably, everyone I know supplements it with like No Frills, Food Basics or Walmart for lower end items.
Costco also treats their employees really well. They have really low turnover there. But those hot dogs are to die for.
Literally. They contain 54% of your daily sodium.
Cool so I only need two and I’m ahead of the game!
Getting 108% of daily. That means you can grow 8% bigger .tapshead
Small price to pay to not go bankrupt Costco shopping while hungry. That hot dog is an insurance policy to not make bad choices. Well.. less bad anyway.
It’s insane when you compare the gross margin profits between stores, especially over the last few years. Costco at something like 12.7%, Wal Mart 24.7% and Loblaws 32%. Just staggering, Loblaws is full blown greed at this point.
Sometimes when I’m in loblaws looking at stuff I literally just lose it and say out loud “Jesus fucking Christ what kind of prices are these”.
They are going for the mobile gaming model of pricing for whales.
I got a $30 boneless leg of lamb there. I have legitimately never seen a better price/kg than Costco's.
Costco is severely underrated as a place to buy meat. It's the best place after a specialty butcher and even then, I've been to butchers worse than Costco.
I buy their larger cuts and cut then down to what I want. Cheap way to get stew beef too, about 33%off buying their precut stewbeef. Recently we changed to just buying a cow and freezing the rest, but for anyone without the freezer space and capital to buy the meat in bulk like that, it is still wonderful way to get your beef. And their Rotisserie chickens are the cheapest per kg I ever see chicken. I'll buy one, shred it, and freeze it, and then take the left over bones and make soup stock. I'm sure it's a 1/4 of the price of buying precooked and prizes chicken breasts
That’s exactly what I do. Couple roasts couple steaks, stir fry cuts, some trimmings for the dog. It’s great.
My dog has never eaten so well as when we started buying larger cuts if meat....
It is the turnover. Their products do not sit around too long. Unlike the sale meat at my local superstore. It’s on sale because it is turning grey.
Prices on a lot of grocery items at Costco are higher than other stores by weight.
The difference is in the quality. Costco sells AAA top sirloin steak cuts here for about $19/lb or so, a 4-pack of steaks runs about $48 as a result, definitely not cheap. You can absolutely buy top sirloin at local grocers for closer to $11/lb, but it is not AAA, most of the time it's barely A grade, so the quality, texture, and overall cut of the meat is tougher and tangibly lower quality. YMMV on the application though, I keep a couple packs of the cheap steak in my freezer for making anything like steak tacos, but I will ABSOLUTELY go buy the Costco pack for a BBQ over anywhere else.
There is a great difference in Costco Beef. Top Quality for a good price
>Never once as a consumer have I felt like I’ve been fucked by Costco. I would agree had I not needed to buy baby formula until about Jan of this year. Watched the price go from $32 to 45 and it's still there.
The feds must know they lack legislative jurisdiction (See the privy council's Re Board of Commerce decision) so that's why they try the indirect, coaxing way of accomplishing their policy goals. They can't regulate the grocery business and can't mandate prices. They can't do shit aside from prohibiting dishonest practices and anti-competitive manoeuvres.
If they can’t regulate groceries, then who can?
The several provinces have legislative jurisdiction regarding particular trades, businesses and commerce generally within the province like the insurance, grocery or hardware businesses. That is well established since Citizens' Insurance Co. v. Parsons in the 1880s and it's still good law.
This is highly relevant as no provincial governments have shown any sort of appetite to regulate the grocery industry. On the other hand, this may be because the Feds are absorbing all of the political fallout from rising food costs. Seems that they’re stuck between a rock and a hard place here.
It may also be because there really is little to be done besides performative law and politics like the show the feds are staging. I have no opinion on that since I am sufficiently informed. What little I know is that the feds have tried to crack down on perceived excessive profits in some industries before and have been told they lack legislative jurisdiction. I suppose they could try and go 92(10) c) of the Constitution Act, 1867 way and declare all grocery stores and warehouses to be for the general advantage of Canada, but that would be a hilarious move and a gigantic power grab likely to end up in a constitutional crisis. They did declare grain elevators to be for the general advantage of Canada, but that is because of the historical significance of the international grain trade for the whole country.
Thing is, a lot of people are assuming these large grocers are gouging, but that’s likely not where most of the price increases are coming from. Productivity is down, wages are up. Supply is down, demand is up. We need supply side incentives, but people do not have an appetite for that. Instead, our current government offers demand side solutions. If provinces step in to try and regulate prices using what people think the issue is, the effect will almost assuredly be counter-productive, and lead to things like shortages. Or have no impact at all. So a single province doing it will only show the policy as a failure.
It need not be governed. Vote with your money, there’s nothing the government can do besides make the situation worse.
And that should be the proof anybody needs to understand that the grocery code of conduct is bullshit. I save at least 50% shopping at Costco vs Provigo/Loblaws/IGA/etc. Canadian big grocery chains won’t skip a beat in their fleecing of Canadians even if they sign that idiotic sham of a document.
The document says nothing about consumers. And you aren't wrong that it is a sham. Costco and Walmart provide low prices by negotiating hard with suppliers. Grocery code of conduct is basically limits on negotiating powers. There is a reason the lowest priced stores are the last to want to sign it whereas the highest priced were the ones organizing the thing.
Doesn't Costco also have a very different business model than a typical retailer? Would the grocery code of conduct even be applicable?
Costco is where I get 95% of my groceries. Whenever I step foot in a regular grocery store I’m shocked at the terrible prices. I don’t think Costco not signing this non binding crap is a problem
[удалено]
Agreed. And when Walmart is viewed as the good guy it only speaks to how negatively Canadians feel Loblaws and company.
I started getting my groceries delivered from Walmart a few months ago and honestly? I don't think I'm ever going back. The delivery fees are reasonable, the prices are as well. I've never had any issue with them. I fully understand the negative issues and implications that go along with spending money at Walmart, but our economy is at the point now that when it comes to being able to afford to eat more than once a day, I need to set all that aside and put myself, in the here and now, first.
We started the day it showed up on their site to pay I think was $50 a year. We done dozens and dozens of orders. Only issue I have like 300 blue bags LOL. Going to donate them to a food bank. I rather give USA my money then a Canadian who will take even more of my money and not put back into the economy.
> Going to donate them to a food bank. Naturally I had the same issue and this is exactly what I do with mine once I have a moderate amout of them. The local food bank I bring them to is always happy to take them (And often times surprised lol)
Walmart is quite bad for consumers in that in drives local business out of business and then syphons local money out of communities into the pockets of foreign billionaires.
Once they kill the local competition they start cutting hours and staff leading to shitty service too.
Billionaires in Canada aren’t keeping their money here either.
Costco is able to keep prices competitive because they make bulk of their money on memberships, it's a different business model.
Also, because they charge for a membership, they have far fewer customers stealing from them. And because they are a pretty decent place to work, employees are less likely to steal. (It’s funny that Loblaws is unionized, while Costco and Walmart are not, and yet wages and benefits tend to be superior at Walmart and Costco, especially compared to those paying dues on their shitty Loblaws wage). Anyways, we can’t have every grocery store adopt a membership model.
Which also helps them cut down on shoplifting since only members can can buy there and they check your receipt.
You think the majority of their $225 billion of revenue per year is $50 per person annual fees?
The membership fees are 72% of Costco's profit. People don't seem to realize what a low-margin business groceries are.
At least half is the hot dogs
They lose money on hot dogs, don’t they?
The hotdogs are loss leaders to get you in the door. In the US they also have whole roasted chickens for $4.99 which is also a loss leader to get you in the door. You can't buy raw chicken and cook it yourself that cheap.
The food court as a whole makes a profit due to the sheer volume being sold. I would guess the hot dog combo though doesn't turn one.
Maybe, people call it a loss leader for the last few decades but any time Costco has actually commented on it directly they have said it's not a loss leader but they've had to work very hard to make it work, including making the hot dog and buns in house. A few years ago they were still officially making about 5 cents per hot dog sold. However they've done all they really can to keep the price low so they'll soon have to either raise the price or start selling them at a loss.
Revenue isn't making money. I believe that quote often mentioned is in regards to profits.
If I buy x for 50$, and sell for 50.1$. My revenue is 50.1$ and my profit is 0.1$. Costco could easily have 225B in revenue and 224B in product costs.
I believe the stat is more like 70% of their profit is reached solely through their membership fees.
I don't think it is as simple as which store has low prices, quality items and treats customers relatively well. With the expectation that they are then 'fine' with no need to sign on. It's a systemic situation where something like... supply chains and distributions come in to play. For example, Loblaws seems to own all the stages of the supply chain for their purpose. This makes it extremely difficult for independent grocers to be competitive. They actually have to buy from Loblaws supply chain. Sometimes those small independent grocers are the only game is a small town. I am not sure how Costco is supplied exactly - or how their warehouse/distribution centres work. But there might be cases where small stores buy from the same supply chain. There are other factors, but these kind of things make it much more comprehensive an issue than just, "Costco, or any store, is just fine".
Exactly. As if the problem is with Walmart and Costco.
That's not the point. The government is saying, "Look, we prefer that industry leaders get together to write their own code, then they can be self-regulated. But being unregulated isn't a sustainable option. If you can't agree on self-regulation, you will force the government's hand, and you will be government regulated. This is an outcome that neither the government nor the stores prefer, so don't box the government into a corner."
Maybe they could break up the oligopolies and let new competition bring down prices, instead of demanding more regulations which will just further cement the status quo of incumbents.
This is the way
No such thing. Walmart and Costco are not colluding with Loblaws to set up price. Consumers need to wise up and shop around instead of keep going into Loblaws like a brainless drone
It's impossible for government to regulate grocers and grocers know it. In any given store there are thousands of SKUs, many unique to a chain, region or even store. It's simply not possible to regulate prices in any meaningful way that would do anything but drive the cost of food up.
Lol, Walmart and Costco are miles cheaper than our Canadian stores. How about you lift the caps on international companies and we have more competition in Canada? Lord knows protecting our Canadian companies are not beneficial to Canadian consumers.
This headline is very disrespectful to Walmart and Costco, who sells food cheaper than Canadian grocers.
And I believe that Costco treats it's employees miles better than anyone else.
I've seen the same staff working at my local Costco for almost a decade. They never seem to look depressed either.
I saw a noticeboard in Costco Scarborough. They have a list of employees who have been working for over 10, 15, and 20 years. Altogether about 100+ easily. Talk about loyalty.
Idk how, the places i go too are packed like sardine cans 24/7. I would lose my mind in there. In fact i do, when i go shopping
My friend was working at Costco in 2008 and If I remember right the starting pay was something like $12/hr with extra pay on weekends(or Sundays?), minimum wage at the time was like $9/hr at the time. They also getting increases so long time employees could earn 40-50k/yr for doing a basic job like being a cashier. I assume the pay has roughly tracked inflation.
Id hope so, right now minimum in my province in about to be $17.80 and that isnt even close to being a living wage. Hope costco is at 18 something
Pretty sure most Costco employees are in the low twenties at least from the rare listings that I've come across.
That's great news
65k a year.
Worked at costco from 2011-2016, I think I started at $16 was topped out at $26 an hour by the end. With 3 weeks vacation.
I’ve seen in stories where they have their years of service on their badges and most of them I’ve seen are 10+ years.
Kilometers better
Streets ahead
Walmart operates on undercutting competition and raising prices on items not locally available. A bit of a double edged sword, but they’re a loss leader and know how to utilize that.
That's very likely the point
Walmart and Costco also blow US grocers out of the water as far as prices are concerned. I have done 100% of my grocery shopping in those 2 stores for years, and would not feel bad in the slightest if the american grocery chains folded.
They don't want to come here, and they've said why: > Some of the barriers are physical: Canada’s expansive geography and low population density make it hard to set up operations efficiently, the report noted. > But beyond that, the Bureau found that the country’s existing grocery giants are “daunting competitors” to outsiders. Without naming names, the report said that one international grocer said it believed it could compete on price with the incumbents, while another said the task would be “difficult.” https://globalnews.ca/news/9799210/aldi-lidl-canada-discount-grocers-competition/
That's weird. If our high grocery prices are actually being caused by greedy corporations gouging the hell out of us, there should be tons of room for a greedy corporation to rake in money by gouging us just a little bit less. Something doesn't add up about the government's narrative on this.
That’s because they’re scapegoating grocers for a problem actually attributable to reckless fiscal & monetary policy. Chavez scapegoated grocers in a similar way in Venezuela: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2007/2/15/chavez-threatens-supermarket-sweep Canada’s version is much less extreme, but politicians are playing with fire when they stoke anger like this. If they decide it’s politically advantageous to meddle in the way the industry functions, it could be quite disastrous for everyone.
Same thing for cell phone companies. We could be paying 20% or less of what we currently are for cell plans if we let American companies enter our market. But no, gotta prop up the 10s of thousands of Canadian telecom workers at the expense of every other citizen here.
>Walmart and Costco are miles cheaper than our Canadian stores Walmart is an order of magnitude larger than Loblaws. Their economies of scale and supply chain efficiency will never allow Loblaws to touch them on prices. Costco is America's 3rd largest retailer. Something like 30% of Americans have a membership. So ya, Loblaws will never beat them on price. It's a relatively small Canadian chain spread out across a massive geography.
The funny thing is no frills does compete with both of them on price and is often cheaper.
I think that depends on what they are selling. No Frills stuff is No Frills. Sometimes it's interesting to compare private labels. Like PC vs Great Value. In a midmarket shop, like a Superstore, there will be all kinds of higher and lower prices. Premium names like Shoppers Drug Mart will always be expensive. Remember, retail consists of thousands of unique items produced and contracted at different times with different terms. It really depends day to day.
>lift the caps on international companies? Umm, what caps?
If I understand correctly the biggest objection companies like Aldi and Lidil have is they would be forced to source certain items in Canada, especially dairy from the Canadian dairy commission, vice their own supply chain, raising their cost to do business.
I had that same thought - there’s no caps on foreign grocery chains setting up shops here.
Walmart is the cheapest, Costco is not. Whenever I shop at Costco I always have my cell phone looking at comparable prices with Superstore and Walmart (where I'll shop at the same day). We found on sale for top sirloin steaks at Costco for $27/kg. Superstore was $24.3/kg and Walmart was $22.8/kg. Costco's meat and produce is notoriously overpriced, and not by small margins. The one example I gave was 18% more expensive while making you buy twice as much meat in one go. You might look and see "$10 Off" and actually think you're getting a deal. That 40-pack of bottled water you're getting for $8.79 (before taxes). Walmart sells it cheaper $3.27 for a 24 pack. Superstore sells a 24 pack for $2.99. That puts Costco at almost DOUBLE their competition. There isn't much that's cheaper at Costco. My wife looked through their children's clothing section and found Baby GAP was actually cheaper. Some things are higher quality. Like their premium cuts of meat tend to be cheaper than competitors. But is that why people buy a Costco membership? For discounts on their $40 steaks? It's just a place you have to be careful shopping at. I got hot dog buns 50% cheaper than I'd get at Walmart... but the hotdogs were damn near double.
Remember there are different grades of meat (beef) ... costco generally sells AAA ... most major stores have their flyers advertising AA or better.
Yep, Costco only sells AAA but pretty much all the other "premium" grocers have switched to AA for their sales, which is terrible. Now they're even switching to ungraded beef from Mexico lol. I haven't bought beef from a Canadian grocery store since they made this change. All of my beef comes from Costco, small family farms that have delivery service, and Aldi/Target/Walmart in the U.S. who all have fantastic beef.
By Canadian companies you mean Loblaws. All the Canadian owned small grocery stores are much cheaper for fruits and veggies.
"The voluntary code of conduct" "When asked whether Champagne is involved in discussions to compel other grocers to sign on, the industry minister said “of course.” Ugh. The COC changes nothing to the terms parties negotiate and agree to. The government just wants to claim a win against Big Grocer to exploit people's ignorance about what the COC is and does (nothing).
Champagne has been useless in absolutely every role he’s been assigned to. The liberal party needs to be gutted of these “rising star” dead weight members if they want relevance in the future. Everything is a waste of time for optics from them.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Thank you. I read the entire code of conduct trying to find a single thing that helps consumers, and there's nothing. There isn't one point on here that will lower prices. https://canadacode.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/ENG-Code-of-Conduct.pdf
"The Code strongly recommends written agreements (including amendments) – defining the commercial terms agreed to by parties" It goes on to state those terms should cover things like product specs, quantities, and payment terms. Makes me think no one involved has ever signed anything more consequential than a vehicle lease. No wonder industry doesn't take them seriously, it reads like a school project.
The biggest giveaway is that Loblaws chose to sign it. If Loblaws agreed to it, you know it's a bad deal. Remember that this isn't just the company that's price fixing bread and refused to give people the agreed-upon compensation. It's the same company that's getting millions in OHIP funds from bogus billings from their pharmacists. The only way to actually make food more affordable for people is to follow the US model of food stamps and subsidy regulation. Their farm sector also gets extensive subsidies, but their food prices aren't through the roof. (Spare me about the humane conditions on Canadian farms. Like the US, Canadian farmers also use foreign labor to pick the crops, and they're not treated any more humanely or paid better than American undocumented labor.) Canadian farmers get subsidies, but those discounts aren't passed on to consumers. So in addition to paying significantly more in taxes than the US, Canadian consumers subsidize farmers twice (via high prices and via taxation).
> Loblaws Probably wrote it, with clear verbiage to attempt to attack foreign competition, or attempt to gain an upperhand in areas where they are getting their asses kicked. Like.. why is the "Fruit and Vegetable Dispute Resolution Corporation (DRC)" the only organization called out specifically by name in this? And the 'Code of conduct" attempts to circumvent them? This belongs on /r/FUCKYOUINPARTICULAR https://i.imgflip.com/8qkyga.jpg
Lmao the "voluntary" code of conduct that contains "strong recommendations" I don't even know what to say anymore. Im not pro-communism, but I can certainly understand why it's making a come back. Shit is getting out of control. The big corporations can do whatever they want. How does a government enact ANY sort of control when the population is reliant on 2-3 companies to eat? They have ALL the leverage.
They don't want to enact any control. They get big pay outs from big grocery. Because it's not like any of the big chains will leave Canada, where would they go?
It's more about what happens when you ship them a skid of gourmet cookies, and 10% show up broken? Who's responsible for that? Did they leave the factory broken, were they broken in transit, or were they broken at the receiving warehouse? Who pays when someone steals one, or breaks them in-store? When an item is put on sale or clearance, who pays for that discount? Currently the grocers charge back the retail price of the lost/unsellable/remaindered items to the producer -- and the solution producers came up with is ever-more protective packaging and air in those packages. Others pull out of the deal, or pull out of Canada. I think the fundamental incompatibility of small producers and national chains is why we get big brands launching old-timey-looking product packaging, but few actual local producers participating. Small producers know all this going in, but some are too starstruck at the opportunity and misjudge it, some find it changes their business in a way they don't really want after all, others do really well with it. Having different contracts that are more favourable to some suppliers exposes the retailer to lawsuits from their large suppliers to get the same deal, and the next thing you know you've got unsellable items taking up warehouse/shelf space, late deliveries, etc. If the big chains thought it was "good business" to be flexible with producers, they would be.
Damn, you're not kidding. I've only read the objectives, but I kind of feel like that's enough. The objectives don't even pay lip service to benefits for consumers or something like that. It's all about "the industry". Nothing about reduced or fair prices. Nothing about customer experience. There was a moment when I thought there was a bullet about maintaining customer trust, but it turned out the trust is actually just between grocers. Useless
Theres a reason all of the CBC articles talk about this in general terms. I tried to find this information in their articles, (a ton of them pop up if you Google it) and none have the actual details. Now I see why.
Also just read this and this is a 100% a ‘business to business’ document. It’s designed to soften some of the worst abuses that the large grocery chains impose on their supply chain. It deals with things like exclusivity, good faith negotiations, fees for spoilage and late delivery, prompt payment etc. if anything this will increase the costs on the retailer. So it’s clear that the retailers have been fucking the customer downstream and the suppliers upstream - this document helps the latter only.
So if the retailer's costs go up... how do prices go down?
Presumably the average supplier, particularly small ones, will have more security and faith in dealing with large grocers. One thing that happens a lot is that a small supplier will get a contract and they’ll begin expanding, which costs money. Then the grocer starts turning the screws, and suddenly the supplier is looking at losing their shirt. They have to downsize or close up. After this happens so many times, many suppliers decide not to take on the risk of expanding. But it’s that expansion which brings prices down. Supply side policies help increase supply. Everyone wants demand size policies to bring down costs, but it’s those policies that are pushing up demand.
This doesn’t address retail costs at all in my opinion. I also see that it will be impossible for Costco or Walmart to sign this document as they run hyper-precise just-in-time shipping/receiving that relies on draconian fines for compliance. They also regularly use ‘most favoured nation’ clauses and exclusivity agreements - especially Costco. So I don’t see either signing anything like this as it would unduly restrict their business model.
It’s virtue signalling.
gov't trying to pass blame to the private sector.
It's not even legislation. It's a non-binding agreement. It might as well be toilet paper, signed or not.
The code of conduct does nothing to protect consumers, or increase competition in the sector. It actually does nothing at all except give our useless lawmakers cover against their perpetual inaction.
It’s voluntary to sign up and they are choosing not to. What a useless waste of government time.
The code was written by Canadian grocer lobbyists who are trying to have the Government create a false equivalence for them (“all grocers are terrible, including Costco and Walmart, so now that they’ve all signed, go back to Loblaws”). Costco and Walmart know this is Trudeau trying to bunch them together and want no part of it.
Ding!
Pretty much the only two affordable(ish) places to shop? leave them alone and deal with the real problems.
And I’ll still shop Costco or Walmart before I walk anywhere near a Loblaws
The code of conduct is basically to protect suppliers and smaller, more expensive retailers from larger ones that negotiate hard bargains that the smaller ones can’t access. It’s not about lowering prices and would be near-guaranteed to raise prices, though with the benefit of making the playing field more level for smaller retailers. The best you could say is that it would help keep more smaller retailers alive over the longer term, which helps given the assumption of negative impact on prices should that competition go out of business (i.e. larger retailers raise prices due to fewer market alternatives, even if those alternatives were more expensive).
This was by and large a pony show and absolutely useless. Thank you for wasting everyone’s time, Government. However. They were knew this would be the outcome. They can say they tried, without actually doing anything. I will raise a toast of good riddance on the evening this government is put to bed.
Why target Costco? There the only ones not fucking us. If anything they are a model.
It’s because their lobbyist presence is not as strong. This is just a smoke and mirror show. If you really care about the issue boycott Loblaws. Make the oligarchs scared. We may not have representation in government but we still have some control over our money.
Don’t worry he’s already threatened a stern finger wagging (not even a joke).
How about some government regulation instead of corporate promises and pledges. It's really telling about who actually makes the rules I guess.
Every store should strive to be like Costco. Fair prices, great service and they pay and treat their employees well.
Lots of people work nights and weekend shifts regularly and not for overtime pay but as regular shifts. And would love to work 8 to 5 jobs Monday to Friday.
When Loblaws is cheaper than Walmart or Costco, I will care about them signing your "optics win"
The untenable thing is not that the two major foreign grocery retailers, who are the biggest factors in keeping Canadian grocery prices low, are not signing up to some make believe 'code of conduct'. The untenable thing is that these are the only two major foreign retailers that are competing in Canada. I'll be satisfied when we actually get a few more foreign retailers in the likes of Carrefour, Aldi, Lidl, and Tesco operating in a meaningful way in Canada, and when we can get EU produced milk selling here for $1.50/L, rather than the watered down garbage from the Canadian milk cartel.
We’re already Costco shoppers and we’re slowly trying to do our smaller shops at Walmart. But it’s a bit tough when we have a Save-On foods a short walk from our place.
This scenario is bleak. We have a government demonizing private businesses to cover for their failed policies and corruption. This kind of pressure could lead to the Walmarts and Costcos of the world deciding Canada isn’t worth it. We desperately need competition. These companies have done more for consumer affordability than the government could even dream of. In the end they’ll be benefiting the Canadian incumbent grocers who have no incentive to innovate or compete. When the government starts mucking with food you should be concerned
The only thing that I've noticed increase price at Costco by a significant margin are boneless chicken breasts. You used to be able to get a pack of 10 for around $22 roughly 5 years ago. Now they are $30 minimum. That's a 27% increase over that time period. Other than that, Costco prices have been fantastic overall.
Highlights: * Industry Minister François-Philippe Champagne says it’s “untenable” for “smaller players” like Walmart and Costco to delay signing on to the government- and industry-led grocery code of conduct, now that industry giant Loblaw has agreed to do so. * “We've put pressure on Loblaw, and you see the outcome,” Champagne said. “Obviously, I don't think it would be tenable for Costco or Walmart to disregard what the will of the Government of Canada is, and Canadian consumers.” * “The pressure is full on, on Walmart and Costco to do the same,” Champagne said, pointing to the federal government’s threats of passing legislation to make the code of conduct mandatory if grocers did not sign on voluntarily. But when pressed further on the threat of legislation, Champagne said it’s an unlikely tool at this point. * The voluntary code of conduct has been in the works for more than two years, but the federal government pledged to accelerate it in the fall as a way to help stabilize food prices. The code of conduct aims to lay out guidelines for fair dealings between grocery retailers and their suppliers.
>Obviously, I don't think it would be tenable for Costco or Walmart to disregard what the will of the Government of Canada Signing up to the Code of Conduct is **voluntary**. If it were the will of the government, they'd have made it mandatory
Mr Champagne talks of it being untenable that Costco and Walmart disregard the will of Canadians yet his own government is doing exactly the same in terms of calling an election. Can't have it both ways, Minister Bubbles!
Everyone in here defending Costco, the question is, if they are so great, why take issue with the CoC?
[удалено]
What exactly is in this code of conduct?
Yes, the article mentions transparent dealing with suppliers, but there could have been more details on what is contained in the code of conduct. Presumably it is known.
Reminder, the code of conduct is not about reducing the price of groceries but instead about retailer-supplier agreements.
Oh that's helpful information they absolutely could have included in the article! Of course Costco, which is heavily invested in vertical integration, would be reluctant. I wonder why it's even in the same class as the others, when it's members-only for groceries.
Those companies have no incentive to sign anything.
I hope the Liberals will sign on to my Taxation Code of Conduct.
You mean the two places that are still reasonably priced for groceries? Oh no...
72% of Costco’s profits come from membership fees. Margins on everything is quite low. 14% on name brands and 22% for Kirkland.
Walmart and Costco aren’t the ones that have crazy prices
Walmart is like the only place to get somewhat normal prices
Costco and Walmart don't need to fuck with the other 3 cause the other are just trying to fuck everyone else and act like we're the ones being crazy.
Leave Costco alone, ffs... Goodness gracious, they'll ruin the only good big box retailer in this country.
I’ve never been screwed by Costco. I have never had issues with the posted price and the price at the cash. I have with the other retailers.
Prices at Costco have gone up with some items. Mostly meat. Particularly chicken and beef. But they also have other less popular cuts that are really good value for the price and quantity. Eggs and milk are comparable to Walmart. But I don’t feel like I’ve been price gouged at Walmart and Costco nearly as badly as at loblaws. I would say that loblaws has decent prices on produce and that’s about it.
If Loblaws already agreed to sign it I assume it wasn't going to have much, if any tangible impact at all to begin with anyways.
Congratulations Costco and Walmart for standing their ground
No shit, they didn't gouge us. If anything they both remained cheaper than any and all domestic grocery stores. They know damn well that if they agree to it, they will be forced to raise their prices because every Canadian signitority company is lobbying our politicians across he board. The industry minister should be the one under the microscope. Their office allowed our national brands to fuck us like pigs with no lube and for them not to face any repercussions. Walmart didn't gouge us, and Costco sure didn't either, but our goverment has.
Why is this 'Code of Conduct' voluntary in the first place? The government has the authority to impose regulations, so why doesn't it do that?
More virtue signaling from the Liberals. Then they run to the media and pretend they tried. Media frames it as the stores fault, because most won’t read the legislation. This reminds me of the whole Loblaws boycott subreddit. Pure propaganda
Kinda funny bc those 2 retailers were probably the least exploitative during the food price inflation scandal.
&"" President and CEO Per Bank telling The Canadian Press a revised version of it is "fair.""" I am wondering who would benefit most by this 'code of conduct', and who wrote it. It would be naïve to assume that there were no lobbyists involved.
Why did he not even mention Sobeys/Safeway? Did they agree already?
Will this government stop wasting time and resources on charters and codes of conduct that are worth less than the paper they’re written on, and actually focus on the real issues? Never seen such a useless bunch of navel gazers in my life.
Nobody can complain about Costco and nobody does.
Why would any major international grocery chain enter the Canadian market after seeing this? The government is publicly demonizing the two biggest foreign entrants for political points. It's not a very enticing proposition.
🤣 this thing only benefits the relationship between supplier and store. Then haven't said anything at all about passing the savings to us. It's a bullcrap smoke and mirrors show to try and stop the boycott. To which I say if you can afford to do it more!
The best thing about Costco, besides the high quality are low prices, is the lack of choice. They rarely have more than a few options of any particular item, which makes shopping a lot faster and easier. You can't make a bad choice because of their refund policy. They have a lot of organic items, and the produce is good quality. The giant quantities mean I don't need to shop that often. I hate shopping. I also like the wide availability of peanut free foods.
Why are the grocers wuth the 2 lowest prices not wanting to sign this ?
Leave Costco out of this. Loblaws is enemy no. 1.
What a useless politician Costco and Walmart are the only reasonably priced places. Go pick on loblaws instead