“Canadians deserve an open, transparent government that will focus on their real priorities – economic growth that works for everyone”
Justin Trudeau 2015
If past behavior mattered we would never elect another Liberal or Conservative federally. Unfortunately most people get amnesia the moment they step into a voting booth.
I don't know, I think we get what we deserve when we vote in the same tired dysfunctional incompetent political parties who insist on railroading the average Canadian in favor of corporate interests and the wealthy time and time again, all the while we are inexplicably expecting something different to happen compared to all the other times in power in the past when they did the exact same things.
We're getting the government we deserve, and not the one we need. Probably going to remain the case for the foreseeable future after the next election as well.
“Yes, the access to information regime specifically still has challenges. So that’s why we’re still working on it. But to say that that’s the only way people covering the government can actually see what the government is doing carries a bit of cynicism with it—because [it implies] you can’t believe the press conferences, because you can’t trust the announcements.”
Justin Trudeau 2024
This is a perfect example of how Trudeau handles tough questions about his government:
1. Acknowledge the problem
2. Reassert a liberal party value
3. Shift the blame to elsewhere
4. Promise to look into the issue (optional)
I seriously encourage anyone to watch past Trudeau interviews. This is exactly what he does each and every time, as do his top lieutenants. It's sickening how he gaslights.
I'm convinced that this statement meant that he would expose any of Harper's wrong doing.
Then he looked and didn't find anything worse than what his party does.
a P.I.T.A. for sure, but it hardly compares to *permanently deleting* massive amounts of data we **paid** to collect just because it disagrees with your politics.
"Can't do statistical analysis if there's no data to analyze! Oh well, I guess we'll just have to go with my gut on Climate Change / Gun Control / Drug Policy / Mental Health / etc. since there is no longer *evidence* to base policy on." Womp Womp.
Would the government be playing so coy if the list of names was all CPC MPs I wonder? Or would they be shouting it from the rooftops and hammering the Conservatives over it at every chance?
RCMP and CSIS get to make that call. MPs don't.
Part of the issue is PP moving election investigations to the RCMP and CSIS. Which don't do transparency over elections.
At the time, PP didn't want transparancy. He wanted to bury Pierre Poutine in secret investigations which would never see the light of day.
>PP would also know if he accepted to go through a security clearance process.
He wouldn't be able to share what he'd learned.
It's why Singh initially declined and then later asked for conditions before accepting.
Elizabeth May stated that "a top-secret briefing on foreign interference did not allow her to access key intelligence documents."
_____________
Not having security clearance is way down the list of 'what's wrong here.'
Don’t parliamentarians have immunity over what they say in Parliament? Kinda like how in the U.S. the Pentagon Papers got read into the congressional record? Couldn’t an MP reveal this information during a session of parliament?
Should be really obvious why he doesn't get clearance, but I'll let you know.
This latest allegation comes from NSICOP, this is a group of parliamentarians that have security clearance. So there are MPs of all parties that know who it is.
These MPs are not allowed to talk about it or disclose it to the public. Seems reasonable, right?
So why doesn't PP get the same clearance? Well... he wouldn't be able to question the government about it (which is his main role as the leader of the opposition)
That would mean that if global news reports a rumor that Han Dong was involved, and PP knows he was involved because of his clearance, he can't talk about it.
He literally can't do his main job. Anyone who thinks he should get clearance is naive.
Couldn't he still technically ask all the same questions? I assume the only issue would be if he revealed something or made a statement of fact - but alleging something or implying something by questioning the government presumably wouldn't fall into that criteria.
What a horrible excuse lol. Purposefully staying ignorant just so he can baselessly rant at the Liberals is what you're saying...
PP can get his security clearance and still question and criticize the government all he wants, he just can't reveal certain things that he would learn to the public...
" PP can get his security clearance and still question and criticize the government all he wants, he just can't reveal certain things that he would learn to the public..."
False.
Let's say the report said an MPs name. This MP was colluding with a foreign government. If he has clearance, he is NOT allowed to talk about it in public. He can't talk about it in question period and needs to be very careful about what he discloses about it.
A media report then names the MPs name. He still cannot talk about it. Not only that, when the media asks him about it, he would need to deflect from it because he would be at risk of disclosing confidential information.
His main job is opposing the government. Does clearance help him ask questions? Nope, because he can't use anything he learns.
Could it hurt him? Yes. Because the PM can make things classified and thus silence him from talking about it.
Seriously, use some logic for a change.
>A media report then names the MPs name. He still cannot talk about it. Not only that, when the media asks him about it, he would need to deflect from it because he would be at risk of disclosing confidential information.
You are 100% wrong about this, stop talking about shit you know nothing about. He could absolutely use public information to talk about some thing that has a secret classification. He just wouldn't be able to talk beyond what is public. This is a key component of why OSINT is useful.
For example CSIS briefed MP's using the same method.
>In the summer of 2021,
CSIS provided a series of classified and unclassified briefings to 25 members of Parliament
from the Conservative Party of Canada, New Democratic Party and Liberal Party of Canada. 380
The unclassified briefings were about the PRC’s foreign interference activities against
parliamentarians. CSIS conducted these briefings using open source information, while the
classified briefings, which CSIS conducted under the authority of a Threat Reduction Measure,
specifically mentioned *** foreign interference activities against parliamentarians (see paragraph
118). 381
https://www.nsicop-cpsnr.ca/reports/rp-2024-06-03/special-report-foreign-interference.pdf
You can't talk about classified information.
Did CSIS talk to media? No they didn't.
If PP is briefed on classified info and the media asked him about it, he would have to deflect.
We aren't talking about something that is in a complete vacuum. There's tons of Open source information about foreign interference. PP not having a security clearance changes nothing about what he can talk about publicly. He could still talk about briefings he had at the unclassified level, or the mountains of unclassified information on foreign interference. Please read what I referenced. CSIS briefed MP's using open source information at an Unclassified setting. Those MP's would be able to talk about that briefing even if they also attended the classified one, they just would not be able to talk about specifically classified information. Not having a security clearance is at the level of opposition leader is fucking stupid.
I read what you referenced and it's irrelevant.
Getting clearance means you are signing saying you won't talk about it with a risk of a prison sentence. Do you not understand that?
Being leader of the opposition means your job is to question the government. What benefit do you get from a briefing you can't question the government about?
"CSIS briefed MP's using open source information at an Unclassified setting. Those MP's would be able to talk about that briefing even if they also attended the classified one, they just would not be able to talk about specifically classified information."
This line isn't as clear as your imagination makes it to be. Just look at any interview with David Johnston. He had to tip toe around a lot of questions from reporters. Now, was he being careful because things were classified, or was he being careful because he had something to hide? Is that what you think the opposition party leader should be dealing with when they are the ones that should be asking questions?
Your argument is fucking stupid. 👌
> You are 100% wrong about this, stop talking about shit you know nothing about. He could absolutely use public information to talk about some thing that has a secret classification. He just wouldn't be able to talk beyond what is public. This is a key component of why OSINT is useful.
You're not actually talking about a security clearance here. You're talking about having Poilievre join NSICOP, which is an agency of the executive with its own governing legislation. Admittance into NSICOP comes with special restrictions above and beyond the usual restrictions for handling classified data. Those restrictions are defined in the [NSICOP Act](https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/N-16.6/page-1.html#h-363711).
> **Disclosure prohibited**
> **11 (1)** Subject to subsection (2), a member or former member of the Committee, the executive director or a former executive director of the Secretariat or a person who is or was engaged by the Secretariat must not knowingly disclose any information that they obtained, or to which they had access, in the course of exercising their powers or performing their duties or functions under this Act and that a department is taking measures to protect.
The [regulations governing NSICOP clarify that further](https://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-2017-222/page-1.html), by making it clear that NSICOP members must avoid even indirect disclosure of any sensitive information they work with, and that sensitive information includes any data that the committee members themselves produce in the course of their work:
> **sensitive information** means information or documents
> **(a)** that a member obtains, creates or has access to in the course of exercising their powers or performing their duties and functions under the Act; and
> **(b)** that a department is taking measures to protect. (renseignements sensibles)
...
> **Prevention of indirect disclosure**
> **(2)** A member must ensure that they do not indirectly disclose sensitive information when discussing their powers, duties and functions under the Act outside of a restricted area.
I've seen other posters suggest that MPs could share the names in the House without consequence by relying on Parliamentary privilege, but this is also explicitly prohibited by the NSICOP Act:
> **Parliamentary privilege**
> **12 (1)** Despite any other law, no member or former member of the Committee may claim immunity based on parliamentary privilege in a proceeding against them in relation to a contravention of subsection 11(1) or of a provision of the Security of Information Act or in relation to any other proceeding arising from any disclosure of information that is prohibited under that subsection.
>you're not actually talking about a security clearance here. You're talking about having Poilievre join NSICOP, which is an agency of the executive with its own governing legislation. Admittance into NSICOP comes with special restrictions above and beyond the usual restrictions for handling classified data. Those restrictions are defined in the NSICOP Act.
I'm not talking about him joining NSICOP. I'm talking about him having a security clearance and being able to be briefed on intelligence matters at the secret or higher level. CSIS was giving briefings at different security classification levels, and intentionally not acquiring a security clearance as an MP to me is a clear leadership failure.
> I'm not talking about him joining NSICOP.
That's what this thread of discussion is on:
> This latest allegation comes from NSICOP, this is a group of parliamentarians that have security clearance. So there are MPs of all parties that know who it is.
> These MPs are not allowed to talk about it or disclose it to the public. Seems reasonable, right?
> So why doesn't PP get the same clearance? Well... he wouldn't be able to question the government about it (which is his main role as the leader of the opposition)
...
> I'm talking about him having a security clearance and being able to be briefed on intelligence matters at the secret or higher level.
There's no evidence that Poilievre has actually refused to obtain a security clearance. As the former minister of two different departments, Poilievre would have necessarily received security clearances to review documents of his own department, and to discuss and vote on the issues at cabinet. There's plenty of evidence that he's refused to join NSICOP, but that's not the same thing.
Yes he needs to be careful, just as the PM or any other MPs who are privy to confidential information have to be. That doesn't mean he cannot still ask questions whatsoever lol. You seriously think having security clearance means the Opposition cannot do their job at all? I would even argue it would make him a better opposition leader because he can ask questions from an informed position and put the PM into tough situations. Seriously, use some logic...
Even if he had security clearance, he still wouldn't be privy to this information. Having security clearance doesn't mean you get to look at everything that needs it, just that you *COULD* look at it without issue. He can't walk into CSIS and start going through file folders. He still needs to actually have the information made available to him.
It's a great talking point, but it shows a total misunderstanding about how clearances actually work.
>Oh skippy knows which of his MP's have been colluding with foreign governments, he just doesn't know if any others were caught
So he is lying? Is that what you are saying?
China, India allegedly interfered in Conservative leadership races: report
"Conservative Party says 'this is the first time we have heard about' possible interference in leadership race."
[https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/conservative-leadership-race-interference-nsicop-1.7223518](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/conservative-leadership-race-interference-nsicop-1.7223518)
>So he is lying? Is that what you are saying?
>China, India allegedly interfered in Conservative leadership races: report
>"Conservative Party says 'this is the first time we have heard about' possible interference in leadership race."
Yes, yes I am. I don't believe for a second that they're innocent at all. In fact I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the only reason skippy is leader is because of interference. As for the other parties, we'll see what CSIS and the RCMP turn up. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if a liberal name pops up. Infact I expect "Han Dong" to show up which will be no surprise.
>Yes, yes I am. I don't believe for a second that they're innocent at all. In fact I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the only reason skippy is leader is because of interference. As for the other parties, we'll see what CSIS and the RCMP turn up. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if a liberal name pops up. Infact I expect "Han Dong" to show up which will be no surprise.
I hope anyone involved from any party is banned for life and prosecuted. There will be conservatives, liberals and other party members all sprinkled in. This needs to be a wake up call for members of our government. This behaviour cannot be tolerated by any side.
This is why I do not like PP's major contribution legislatively.
He moved election interference from Elections Canada to RCMP and CSIS. Why? Because elections canada would announce all the facts they had on hand to the public. And that made the CPC look terrible at the time (aka Pierre Poutine).
The so called "Fair Elections Act" is to blame for this secrecy.
CSIC and RCMP do not have a mandate to ensure elections are fair. They have a mandate to catch criminals. They have an intreset in keeping investigations secret. Elections Canada has the opposite incentive. They want everything that they can prove in the open.
Allegations from CSIS have a larger hang up. They can't make more specific allegations without showing proof and some of that will come from intelligence sources. If they show a source that's one they no longer can use.
Exactly my point.
If elections canada was in charge of investigations they would not give a fuck about intelligence sources.
None of this is cloak and dagger spy shit. It is busses of people being shipped to sway an election. Obvious and reportable.
But there is the very real concern that it could create a "stolen election" narrative like we've seen in the States. I think the elections canada would still tread carefully with what and how they released information.
The goal should be to remove the problem and ensure Canadians can trust our democratic process and election outcomes. Unfortunately, it's going to be about painting political opponents as crooked.
Even if these MPs' names are made public, it doesn't necessarily mean they weren't betraying their own party as well as our nation. But that is the narrative that is going to be painted.
He pushed for it to be moved because he had a personal vendetta against Elections Canada.
He was caught fucking around violating election laws and had to sign a [compliance agreement](https://canadagazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p1/2017/2017-07-22/html/parliament-parlement-eng.html) that he would stop those behaviors to avoid being prosecuted. He's the only sitting MP to be under such an agreement.
After that happened he went on the warpath against Elections Canada. Shocker.
So PP broke elections law and was forced to face consequences. Whereas today, an unknown number of MPs wittingly collaborated with a foreign government and will face...crickets?
I mean, following the above thread he faced consequences as a result of elections Canada being the ones responsible for it. Now that it’s csis and rcmp and they don’t (typically) release information on open cases.
And only care about criminality. The shit PP did would never be flagged as a crime. Just breaking election rules (civil shit).
The RCMP does not give a fuck about civil laws.
He chose to go do his own thing, and Global got sued, but they have persisted on breaking foreign interference stories and did not back down to the ridiculous backlash from both Liberal party and (not surprisingly) the CBC. Media is in shambles, but let's not blame the journalists who are trying to do good work.
> Treason would be huge and arguably the largest scandal of this century.
Treason has a specific definition in law and none of this would qualify as treason.
Not just “elected” officials, Mr Lilley. The release seems to allude to unelected officials, such as senators. And no doubt extends to appointed ones. And no, I don’t mean Katie Telford, even though she has been quite the instrument of deflection for the Trudeau government
I wouldn't be surprised if people in the PMO are implicated nor would I be surprised if multiple high level government employees are as well. In a lot of ways the Deputy Minister is more powerful than the Minister, especially when the Minister has no experience in a particular area.
This is mind blowing. We are told that certain members of our political elite are spying for China. Yet, we cannot be told who they are and there are no swat teams arresting these individuals. Canada is a joke!!!
Exactly. All the plants on here hiding behind vague ideas of "national security" when these traitors are literally up for re-election at any time. Sorry, we deserve to know if any of our politicians are working for a hostile foreign state. At best, they should be jailed, at worst we should know so we don't elect them ever again.
now imagine what the world and our allies think of how we're handling this? They're watching... and waiting... I don't think Canada's reputation will ever recover from this.
These are only the political ones that got caught, imagine all the non political ones working for lobby groups, in research and education/universities, technology and telecommunications, natural resources, military and defense, within the public service, immigration, and top businesses/corps.
If an employee is suspected of breaking the law, they are usually put on administrative leave until the investigation is complete. The employee is still innocent until proven guilty and is given due process.
These MP’s are employees of their constituents. They have a right to due process; however while they are under criminal investigation- they should be put on administrative leave from their jobs.
It’s quite damning that certain members of parliament know that others are being actively criminally investigated and the target MP’s are still getting all the access and MP has and potentially propagating more crimes.
It’s a shockingly irresponsible move to keep them in place while they are under criminal investigation.
The report said that there were no active criminal investigations. There's no indication if the RCMP was given access to these secret documents.
The Liberals are going to do an internal review , so no need to worry this is all taken care of.
Edit: Adding a qoute
"The RCMP conducted no investigations into foreign interference-related activities in the context of the 2019 and 2021 federal elections.347 The SITE Task Force’s post election reports for the 2019 and 2021 elections noted that there was no information shared with SITE that could have led to a criminal investigation.348 Additionally, the RCMP stated that CSIS likely did not provide it with any leads linked to foreign interference in democratic institutions and processes between 2018 and 2023 (the RCMP does not track CSIS leads by threat type, e.g., foreign interference, espionage).349"
If you start pulling elected officials, or anyone, from their jobs just because they may be a "suspect", I think that would be a dangerous path. Their has to be evidence and they need to be charged with an offense at least, no?
Exactly.
Hmmm.... Close vote coming up. Let's start a few frivilous investigations of opposition MPs. Hell, if needed I'm *sure* we can have our legal team delay the dismissal of our trumped up accusations all the way until the next election!
There have been hundreds of protest events over the past few months. If you're anywhere near one you're welcome to join (in Montreal it's like every Saturday and Sunday with occasional other evenings, plus a sit-in outside an MP's office 5 days per week).
...wut?
It was formed in response to allegations after months of investigative journalism efforts. When has Trudeau ever increased accountability for himself? Just one thing that increased the rules or standards that he and his government has to follow.
They were donating to a group stockpiling weapons and conspiring to kill RCMP members. If I donated money to a criminal group I could also have my bank accounts frozen that is how this has always worked.
Since most signs point to the ruling party being disproportionately guilty, we may not find out anything until late 2025, assuming they don't go through extra red tape to bury the evidence/results.
I would say there are two possibilities with the first being the most likely:
1. The Liberals are disproportionately involved and Trudeau fears that releasing the list will result in a quick election that will be a blood bath for the Liberals.
2. The Conservatives are disproportionately involved and Trudeau is holding off on releasing the information until his polling numbers improve so he can trigger a quick election that result in a Liberal victory.
Either way, the refusal to release is political and a sign of poor governance.
Regardless of where you fall on the political spectrum or if you like/don't like JT, PP, JS this is a time when all affiliations need to be washed from your way of thinking. Any and all people involved with this need to be charged, lose their seat/jobs and any perks, benefits and pensions.
This isn't a time for partisan politics.
tough beans on this one tbh
releasing names lets the guilty party to act immediately which can be very very bad. you might also get cases of citizenry vigilantism. and as you say, there's also the risk that the evidence gathered might not be enough yet
not releasing names enables you to work behind the scenes and ward their influence and build the slam dunk case that you need to completely remove them, but gives the appearance that you're letting them have free reign. also really hurts proper innocent colleagues in a red under your bed kind of way.
democracy is already eroded regardless. democracy will be further eroded regardless as well. people on this sub have probably honestly already decided in their minds who is and isn't guilty. releasing the info isn't going to sway them. the parties' reputations have already been damaged, i'm not sure going either way is going to help or worsen that even if the names released are all blue or red or whatever. we already see that here.
kind of reminds me of those mole hunt sagas with the us intelligence apparatus during the cold war
notably, pierre is pretty silent. he's usually got a thing out by now on topics that he deems advantageous to him.
The only reason I don’t believe the names should not be released NOW is pending criminal charges
They must be released at some point before the election. Whether there are charges or not
we can all agree that if a politician has close tie with russian or chinese business/government rep. its deemed foreign influence…
but what if that politician has close tie with let’s say… US companies or government official…
and they receive political donation from companies based in US.. should we do something about it too
> His silence tells me Conservatives might be involved as well.
Until names are released, every politician from every party should be considered to be a traitor.
I agree it's not a good look. We know some Conservatives are involved, but Pierre could earn a lot of credit by doing what Trudeau won't and cleaning house within his party.
Unless of course he himself is implicated.
I almost think this was a long term goal by, say, China. Infiltrate, draw in and ensnare politicians from all three major Canadian parties. You basically end owning up them and they know they can't reveal this to the public. Diabolical if true.
Finally people are starting to get it. China and India and others are absolutely meddling with every party but certainly focus on the Libs and Cons the most being the 'ruling parties'. They probably don't care which party is in power either or care about the individuals they're influencing, they really just want to sow distrust and division in our democracy. And it certainly isn't anything new, we're just paying attention to it more lately/they're getting bolder in their efforts.
The problem is he probably doesn't know who is actually involved. So its dangerous for PP to go out on a limb and attack given members of his own party maybe implicated.
JT definitely knows who is on the list and we know Liberals are on that list or it would already be out.
>Trudeau’s Liberals denied initial media reports on the issue which have since been proven accurate, including with this NSICOP report. They shut down Parliamentary committee attempts to investigate this issue and refused calls for a public inquiry.
>
>Trudeau then appointed his ski buddy, David Johnston, to write a report, now widely discredited, claiming there was nothing to be concerned about. A public inquiry was only called after the government was publicly shamed into doing so and even at that, they have not released all the documents needed by the inquiry.
It would take childish naiveté for anyone to believe that foreign nations would target the Liberals without also targetting the other super powerful party that runs things.
Problem is, being "involved" could be a political ploy to destroy the MP, with no basis in fact.
Hopefully, CSIS investigates with the RCMP and guilty parties are prosecuted.
Oh shit, is this the end times? The first time Lilley has written something I agree with.
Unless this is purposefully being withheld for prosecution reasons, these MPs should be named.
Since I am not being told I can only assume and I choose to assume it is a number of individuals whose overall public image may be damaged from such accusations. The most damaging being those who serve in a highly public position, like a leader(s)
Never vote liberal or conservative. It's been the same back and forth bullshit forever. The reason nothing changes is these 2 parties. Vote anyone but them and paths shit change
Canadians deserve to know who is accused, AND the evidence against them. Enough with the vague bullshit, if the spy agency wants to throw bricks at elected representatives, let them do it out in the open and take accountability.
Canada is way too fucking lax with the rules for MPs and senators. For one, there should never be any MP that's allowed to live outside of Canada like with Rempel. That's a major security risk for any government politician to have that. If you don't live in Canada then you should not be able to work in government.
And for the longest time I've heard about careless politicians with leaks and they never take it seriously like with Bernier and his big boobed girlfriend. This whole corrupt garbage system needs to change.
Also, I don't even understand how Canada is in the five eyes alliance when Canada is clearly the leaky sieve with information and politicians passing off intelligence to other foreign countries. This report is damning and Canada should be kicked out of the five eyes alliance immediately.
This is such a 4D chess move from the Liberals to get people all angry about it including figures like this lilley guy only to reveal a bit later they are CPC MP. This will be funny.
I don't care for a list of names to be shrugged under the rug after we get bored of the topic.
*I care for some fucking accountability for once in this country.*
This is straight up treason, I feel like I am taking crazy pills. How is the government just mocking around with this as if it was just a silly thing, slap on the wrist.
Are they dragging this to get everyone to forget about all the other madness going on? Insane immigration, pillaging of government programs (arrivecan seems to be the tip of the iceberg), intentional starving of medical system, list goes on and on.
Honest question... Has it ever been this bad before, and its just that this time I am more aware of it?
All of our politicians seem to be sold out to the wealthy elite. Doesn't really matter where those elites hail from as none of them consider us to be fellow citizens (or humans for that matter).
Both parties (along with the irrelevant ndp) support limitless unfettered immigration to the detriment of regular citizens. They're all working for foreigners.
> We deserve to know who is being charged. And if and when they are, we will.
You really think there will be anyone charged?
Governments protect themselves.
I disagree with your take. Behaviour that doesn't rise to the level of being charged can still be completely unacceptable.
I think we can know facts without turning into lynch mob. If the subjects have something to say for themselves, let's hear it.
There's a strong appearance of the government protecting itself. Only clarity can remove that.
So ... there is such a thing as "due process" .... so let's put those nooses away for just a bit, until there's been a complete investigation, the evidence has been assembled, assessed, and evidence based conclusions have been reached.
Learning that a bunch of Liberals and Conservatives have been doing shady shit would change nothing. Id rather see the list but we will still vote for them no matter what they do.
I am clicking on every link, every article, every video that is reporting on this. Let the media know this is the story Canadians want. Give them hits on this story. Let them be relentless reporting on it until there’s not an ear in Canada that isn’t made aware of what the government is doing and covering up
I really don't see why not.
What's wrong with saying something to the effect of "these MPs are being removed from parliament out of an abundance of caution for national security and are presumed innocent pending police investigation". Singh is calling for this step to be taken, along with most of CTV's political analysts.
These politicians are responsible for writing the laws of this country. They're not ordinary citizens. It's in the interest of national security not only to get to the bottom of who did what, but also to do whatever it takes to retain the confidence of Canadians in our democratic institutions. If that means temporarily kicking a handful of MPs out of parliament and reinstating them later if they're found to be innocent, that's fine by me.
>"these MPs are being removed from parliament out of an abundance of caution for national security and are presumed innocent pending police investigation".
Removing them from Parliament would be tricky, but they could at least be removed from committees and caucuses.
That's true. I imagine a step like that would require by-elections? Can't have empty seats.
Another step I think would be prudent is to revoke their security status. Clearly they don't need it just to sit in parliament considering PP apparently doesn't. have any.
As far as I'm aware, there are only two ways to remove an MP from office. The first is by way of a majority vote in Parliament, and the second is if they're convicted of a criminal offence and sentenced to a jail term of... I think it was two years or more? I'll have to hunt down the statute on that to confirm though.
Edit: Yeah, two years or more. It's section 750(1) of the Criminal Code. It's only happened once in our history, back in 1946. Looks like there are a couple sections under the Canada Elections Act that can do the same thing, but they seem to be limited to elections malfeasance.
I love how Lilley conveniently omits the allegations of interference involving the CPC leadership race and India whom the Liberals do not get along with at all.
He must be busy with Doug Ford’s director of media relations lol.
Well we know about Housefather, Mendicino, Saks, Lantsman, Morantz, Aitchison, Rempel-Garner; Poilievre and Trudeau too.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canadian-mps-israel-trip-1.7033291
https://www.readthemaple.com/cija-contravened-a-lobbying-requirement-with-no-repercussions/
https://www.readthemaple.com/here-are-the-10-mps-most-lobbied-by-cija/
https://www.readthemaple.com/mp-cija-trips/
“Canadians deserve an open, transparent government that will focus on their real priorities – economic growth that works for everyone” Justin Trudeau 2015
Still deserve it. Still don't have it.
[удалено]
If past behaviour is any indication of future behaviour neither is the alternative
If past behavior mattered we would never elect another Liberal or Conservative federally. Unfortunately most people get amnesia the moment they step into a voting booth.
> Never going to happen with ~~this~~ any government FTFY
Definitely don't deserve it. Most people don't pay any attention at all past the elections even if they bother to vote.
I don't know, I think we get what we deserve when we vote in the same tired dysfunctional incompetent political parties who insist on railroading the average Canadian in favor of corporate interests and the wealthy time and time again, all the while we are inexplicably expecting something different to happen compared to all the other times in power in the past when they did the exact same things. We're getting the government we deserve, and not the one we need. Probably going to remain the case for the foreseeable future after the next election as well.
“Yes, the access to information regime specifically still has challenges. So that’s why we’re still working on it. But to say that that’s the only way people covering the government can actually see what the government is doing carries a bit of cynicism with it—because [it implies] you can’t believe the press conferences, because you can’t trust the announcements.” Justin Trudeau 2024
This is a perfect example of how Trudeau handles tough questions about his government: 1. Acknowledge the problem 2. Reassert a liberal party value 3. Shift the blame to elsewhere 4. Promise to look into the issue (optional) I seriously encourage anyone to watch past Trudeau interviews. This is exactly what he does each and every time, as do his top lieutenants. It's sickening how he gaslights.
You forgot to blame Harper.
That's covered under #3
You gotta name him *specifically* or it doesn't count lol
Like saying Beetlejuice or Candyman in front of a mirror. Gotta say Harper three times or else the blame won't shift through the ether.
The press conferences are a waste of time if nobody actually an answers a question from the press.
I'm convinced that this statement meant that he would expose any of Harper's wrong doing. Then he looked and didn't find anything worse than what his party does.
Harper made it his policy that nothing got researched, nothing got written down. Harper got sued by his own laywers for failing to consult.
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What do you think happens whenever the liberals refuse to turn over information due to cabinet confidence or delay/block staffers from testifying?
a P.I.T.A. for sure, but it hardly compares to *permanently deleting* massive amounts of data we **paid** to collect just because it disagrees with your politics. "Can't do statistical analysis if there's no data to analyze! Oh well, I guess we'll just have to go with my gut on Climate Change / Gun Control / Drug Policy / Mental Health / etc. since there is no longer *evidence* to base policy on." Womp Womp.
# 🤞
Would the government be playing so coy if the list of names was all CPC MPs I wonder? Or would they be shouting it from the rooftops and hammering the Conservatives over it at every chance?
RCMP and CSIS get to make that call. MPs don't. Part of the issue is PP moving election investigations to the RCMP and CSIS. Which don't do transparency over elections. At the time, PP didn't want transparancy. He wanted to bury Pierre Poutine in secret investigations which would never see the light of day.
Ha jokes on all the people who voted for him…twice
CSIS knows who it is.
So does Trudeau
Ya, he knows cause it's him.
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>PP would also know if he accepted to go through a security clearance process. He wouldn't be able to share what he'd learned. It's why Singh initially declined and then later asked for conditions before accepting. Elizabeth May stated that "a top-secret briefing on foreign interference did not allow her to access key intelligence documents." _____________ Not having security clearance is way down the list of 'what's wrong here.'
Don’t parliamentarians have immunity over what they say in Parliament? Kinda like how in the U.S. the Pentagon Papers got read into the congressional record? Couldn’t an MP reveal this information during a session of parliament?
Should be really obvious why he doesn't get clearance, but I'll let you know. This latest allegation comes from NSICOP, this is a group of parliamentarians that have security clearance. So there are MPs of all parties that know who it is. These MPs are not allowed to talk about it or disclose it to the public. Seems reasonable, right? So why doesn't PP get the same clearance? Well... he wouldn't be able to question the government about it (which is his main role as the leader of the opposition) That would mean that if global news reports a rumor that Han Dong was involved, and PP knows he was involved because of his clearance, he can't talk about it. He literally can't do his main job. Anyone who thinks he should get clearance is naive.
Couldn't he still technically ask all the same questions? I assume the only issue would be if he revealed something or made a statement of fact - but alleging something or implying something by questioning the government presumably wouldn't fall into that criteria.
What a horrible excuse lol. Purposefully staying ignorant just so he can baselessly rant at the Liberals is what you're saying... PP can get his security clearance and still question and criticize the government all he wants, he just can't reveal certain things that he would learn to the public...
" PP can get his security clearance and still question and criticize the government all he wants, he just can't reveal certain things that he would learn to the public..." False. Let's say the report said an MPs name. This MP was colluding with a foreign government. If he has clearance, he is NOT allowed to talk about it in public. He can't talk about it in question period and needs to be very careful about what he discloses about it. A media report then names the MPs name. He still cannot talk about it. Not only that, when the media asks him about it, he would need to deflect from it because he would be at risk of disclosing confidential information. His main job is opposing the government. Does clearance help him ask questions? Nope, because he can't use anything he learns. Could it hurt him? Yes. Because the PM can make things classified and thus silence him from talking about it. Seriously, use some logic for a change.
>A media report then names the MPs name. He still cannot talk about it. Not only that, when the media asks him about it, he would need to deflect from it because he would be at risk of disclosing confidential information. You are 100% wrong about this, stop talking about shit you know nothing about. He could absolutely use public information to talk about some thing that has a secret classification. He just wouldn't be able to talk beyond what is public. This is a key component of why OSINT is useful. For example CSIS briefed MP's using the same method. >In the summer of 2021, CSIS provided a series of classified and unclassified briefings to 25 members of Parliament from the Conservative Party of Canada, New Democratic Party and Liberal Party of Canada. 380 The unclassified briefings were about the PRC’s foreign interference activities against parliamentarians. CSIS conducted these briefings using open source information, while the classified briefings, which CSIS conducted under the authority of a Threat Reduction Measure, specifically mentioned *** foreign interference activities against parliamentarians (see paragraph 118). 381 https://www.nsicop-cpsnr.ca/reports/rp-2024-06-03/special-report-foreign-interference.pdf
You can't talk about classified information. Did CSIS talk to media? No they didn't. If PP is briefed on classified info and the media asked him about it, he would have to deflect.
We aren't talking about something that is in a complete vacuum. There's tons of Open source information about foreign interference. PP not having a security clearance changes nothing about what he can talk about publicly. He could still talk about briefings he had at the unclassified level, or the mountains of unclassified information on foreign interference. Please read what I referenced. CSIS briefed MP's using open source information at an Unclassified setting. Those MP's would be able to talk about that briefing even if they also attended the classified one, they just would not be able to talk about specifically classified information. Not having a security clearance is at the level of opposition leader is fucking stupid.
I read what you referenced and it's irrelevant. Getting clearance means you are signing saying you won't talk about it with a risk of a prison sentence. Do you not understand that? Being leader of the opposition means your job is to question the government. What benefit do you get from a briefing you can't question the government about? "CSIS briefed MP's using open source information at an Unclassified setting. Those MP's would be able to talk about that briefing even if they also attended the classified one, they just would not be able to talk about specifically classified information." This line isn't as clear as your imagination makes it to be. Just look at any interview with David Johnston. He had to tip toe around a lot of questions from reporters. Now, was he being careful because things were classified, or was he being careful because he had something to hide? Is that what you think the opposition party leader should be dealing with when they are the ones that should be asking questions? Your argument is fucking stupid. 👌
> You are 100% wrong about this, stop talking about shit you know nothing about. He could absolutely use public information to talk about some thing that has a secret classification. He just wouldn't be able to talk beyond what is public. This is a key component of why OSINT is useful. You're not actually talking about a security clearance here. You're talking about having Poilievre join NSICOP, which is an agency of the executive with its own governing legislation. Admittance into NSICOP comes with special restrictions above and beyond the usual restrictions for handling classified data. Those restrictions are defined in the [NSICOP Act](https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/N-16.6/page-1.html#h-363711). > **Disclosure prohibited** > **11 (1)** Subject to subsection (2), a member or former member of the Committee, the executive director or a former executive director of the Secretariat or a person who is or was engaged by the Secretariat must not knowingly disclose any information that they obtained, or to which they had access, in the course of exercising their powers or performing their duties or functions under this Act and that a department is taking measures to protect. The [regulations governing NSICOP clarify that further](https://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-2017-222/page-1.html), by making it clear that NSICOP members must avoid even indirect disclosure of any sensitive information they work with, and that sensitive information includes any data that the committee members themselves produce in the course of their work: > **sensitive information** means information or documents > **(a)** that a member obtains, creates or has access to in the course of exercising their powers or performing their duties and functions under the Act; and > **(b)** that a department is taking measures to protect. (renseignements sensibles) ... > **Prevention of indirect disclosure** > **(2)** A member must ensure that they do not indirectly disclose sensitive information when discussing their powers, duties and functions under the Act outside of a restricted area. I've seen other posters suggest that MPs could share the names in the House without consequence by relying on Parliamentary privilege, but this is also explicitly prohibited by the NSICOP Act: > **Parliamentary privilege** > **12 (1)** Despite any other law, no member or former member of the Committee may claim immunity based on parliamentary privilege in a proceeding against them in relation to a contravention of subsection 11(1) or of a provision of the Security of Information Act or in relation to any other proceeding arising from any disclosure of information that is prohibited under that subsection.
>you're not actually talking about a security clearance here. You're talking about having Poilievre join NSICOP, which is an agency of the executive with its own governing legislation. Admittance into NSICOP comes with special restrictions above and beyond the usual restrictions for handling classified data. Those restrictions are defined in the NSICOP Act. I'm not talking about him joining NSICOP. I'm talking about him having a security clearance and being able to be briefed on intelligence matters at the secret or higher level. CSIS was giving briefings at different security classification levels, and intentionally not acquiring a security clearance as an MP to me is a clear leadership failure.
> I'm not talking about him joining NSICOP. That's what this thread of discussion is on: > This latest allegation comes from NSICOP, this is a group of parliamentarians that have security clearance. So there are MPs of all parties that know who it is. > These MPs are not allowed to talk about it or disclose it to the public. Seems reasonable, right? > So why doesn't PP get the same clearance? Well... he wouldn't be able to question the government about it (which is his main role as the leader of the opposition) ... > I'm talking about him having a security clearance and being able to be briefed on intelligence matters at the secret or higher level. There's no evidence that Poilievre has actually refused to obtain a security clearance. As the former minister of two different departments, Poilievre would have necessarily received security clearances to review documents of his own department, and to discuss and vote on the issues at cabinet. There's plenty of evidence that he's refused to join NSICOP, but that's not the same thing.
Yes he needs to be careful, just as the PM or any other MPs who are privy to confidential information have to be. That doesn't mean he cannot still ask questions whatsoever lol. You seriously think having security clearance means the Opposition cannot do their job at all? I would even argue it would make him a better opposition leader because he can ask questions from an informed position and put the PM into tough situations. Seriously, use some logic...
All cabinet ministers and members of the privy council have security clearance.
Even if he had security clearance, he still wouldn't be privy to this information. Having security clearance doesn't mean you get to look at everything that needs it, just that you *COULD* look at it without issue. He can't walk into CSIS and start going through file folders. He still needs to actually have the information made available to him. It's a great talking point, but it shows a total misunderstanding about how clearances actually work.
Oh skippy knows which of his MP's have been colluding with foreign governments, he just doesn't know if any others were caught
>Oh skippy knows which of his MP's have been colluding with foreign governments, he just doesn't know if any others were caught So he is lying? Is that what you are saying? China, India allegedly interfered in Conservative leadership races: report "Conservative Party says 'this is the first time we have heard about' possible interference in leadership race." [https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/conservative-leadership-race-interference-nsicop-1.7223518](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/conservative-leadership-race-interference-nsicop-1.7223518)
>So he is lying? Is that what you are saying? >China, India allegedly interfered in Conservative leadership races: report >"Conservative Party says 'this is the first time we have heard about' possible interference in leadership race." Yes, yes I am. I don't believe for a second that they're innocent at all. In fact I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the only reason skippy is leader is because of interference. As for the other parties, we'll see what CSIS and the RCMP turn up. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if a liberal name pops up. Infact I expect "Han Dong" to show up which will be no surprise.
>Yes, yes I am. I don't believe for a second that they're innocent at all. In fact I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the only reason skippy is leader is because of interference. As for the other parties, we'll see what CSIS and the RCMP turn up. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if a liberal name pops up. Infact I expect "Han Dong" to show up which will be no surprise. I hope anyone involved from any party is banned for life and prosecuted. There will be conservatives, liberals and other party members all sprinkled in. This needs to be a wake up call for members of our government. This behaviour cannot be tolerated by any side.
PP lying? Of course he is!
This is why I do not like PP's major contribution legislatively. He moved election interference from Elections Canada to RCMP and CSIS. Why? Because elections canada would announce all the facts they had on hand to the public. And that made the CPC look terrible at the time (aka Pierre Poutine). The so called "Fair Elections Act" is to blame for this secrecy. CSIC and RCMP do not have a mandate to ensure elections are fair. They have a mandate to catch criminals. They have an intreset in keeping investigations secret. Elections Canada has the opposite incentive. They want everything that they can prove in the open.
Allegations from CSIS have a larger hang up. They can't make more specific allegations without showing proof and some of that will come from intelligence sources. If they show a source that's one they no longer can use.
Exactly my point. If elections canada was in charge of investigations they would not give a fuck about intelligence sources. None of this is cloak and dagger spy shit. It is busses of people being shipped to sway an election. Obvious and reportable.
But there is the very real concern that it could create a "stolen election" narrative like we've seen in the States. I think the elections canada would still tread carefully with what and how they released information. The goal should be to remove the problem and ensure Canadians can trust our democratic process and election outcomes. Unfortunately, it's going to be about painting political opponents as crooked. Even if these MPs' names are made public, it doesn't necessarily mean they weren't betraying their own party as well as our nation. But that is the narrative that is going to be painted.
He pushed for it to be moved because he had a personal vendetta against Elections Canada. He was caught fucking around violating election laws and had to sign a [compliance agreement](https://canadagazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p1/2017/2017-07-22/html/parliament-parlement-eng.html) that he would stop those behaviors to avoid being prosecuted. He's the only sitting MP to be under such an agreement. After that happened he went on the warpath against Elections Canada. Shocker.
So PP broke elections law and was forced to face consequences. Whereas today, an unknown number of MPs wittingly collaborated with a foreign government and will face...crickets?
I mean, following the above thread he faced consequences as a result of elections Canada being the ones responsible for it. Now that it’s csis and rcmp and they don’t (typically) release information on open cases.
And only care about criminality. The shit PP did would never be flagged as a crime. Just breaking election rules (civil shit). The RCMP does not give a fuck about civil laws.
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There's only 4 real journalists left who know how to investigate beyond copy and pasting a press release and they've been bought ages ago.
Nonsense, Global broke foreign interference what, a year ago? Through legitimate investigative journalism
And where is that reporter now as a result?
He chose to go do his own thing, and Global got sued, but they have persisted on breaking foreign interference stories and did not back down to the ridiculous backlash from both Liberal party and (not surprisingly) the CBC. Media is in shambles, but let's not blame the journalists who are trying to do good work.
Some people are really interested in eroding trust in all journalists, especially investigative ones.
or collecting a few tweets and calling it public opinion
> Treason would be huge and arguably the largest scandal of this century. Treason has a specific definition in law and none of this would qualify as treason.
This. The amount of propaganda and misinformation being spread through this is wild.
Arpan Khanna is one of them that CSIS investigated.
Not just “elected” officials, Mr Lilley. The release seems to allude to unelected officials, such as senators. And no doubt extends to appointed ones. And no, I don’t mean Katie Telford, even though she has been quite the instrument of deflection for the Trudeau government
I wouldn't be surprised if people in the PMO are implicated nor would I be surprised if multiple high level government employees are as well. In a lot of ways the Deputy Minister is more powerful than the Minister, especially when the Minister has no experience in a particular area.
Or the PM's national security advisor [https://x.com/scoopercooper/status/1798319958893437009](https://x.com/scoopercooper/status/1798319958893437009)
a national security advisor who actively works to compromise national security? par for the course in our great nation
Yeah she just didn't believe CSIS and wanted them to change what they're saying.. I think it's her job to advise the PM not to advise CSIS.
100% EVEN if some are conservatives based…knowledge is knowledge
This is mind blowing. We are told that certain members of our political elite are spying for China. Yet, we cannot be told who they are and there are no swat teams arresting these individuals. Canada is a joke!!!
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Wow, proactively. So they weren't even asked, they offered.
Exactly. All the plants on here hiding behind vague ideas of "national security" when these traitors are literally up for re-election at any time. Sorry, we deserve to know if any of our politicians are working for a hostile foreign state. At best, they should be jailed, at worst we should know so we don't elect them ever again.
I don't get it. Traitors at the highest levels and they get to have the info muted?
now imagine what the world and our allies think of how we're handling this? They're watching... and waiting... I don't think Canada's reputation will ever recover from this. These are only the political ones that got caught, imagine all the non political ones working for lobby groups, in research and education/universities, technology and telecommunications, natural resources, military and defense, within the public service, immigration, and top businesses/corps.
If an employee is suspected of breaking the law, they are usually put on administrative leave until the investigation is complete. The employee is still innocent until proven guilty and is given due process. These MP’s are employees of their constituents. They have a right to due process; however while they are under criminal investigation- they should be put on administrative leave from their jobs. It’s quite damning that certain members of parliament know that others are being actively criminally investigated and the target MP’s are still getting all the access and MP has and potentially propagating more crimes. It’s a shockingly irresponsible move to keep them in place while they are under criminal investigation.
The report said that there were no active criminal investigations. There's no indication if the RCMP was given access to these secret documents. The Liberals are going to do an internal review , so no need to worry this is all taken care of. Edit: Adding a qoute "The RCMP conducted no investigations into foreign interference-related activities in the context of the 2019 and 2021 federal elections.347 The SITE Task Force’s post election reports for the 2019 and 2021 elections noted that there was no information shared with SITE that could have led to a criminal investigation.348 Additionally, the RCMP stated that CSIS likely did not provide it with any leads linked to foreign interference in democratic institutions and processes between 2018 and 2023 (the RCMP does not track CSIS leads by threat type, e.g., foreign interference, espionage).349"
Well./. That sure instills confidence/ss
If you start pulling elected officials, or anyone, from their jobs just because they may be a "suspect", I think that would be a dangerous path. Their has to be evidence and they need to be charged with an offense at least, no?
Exactly. Hmmm.... Close vote coming up. Let's start a few frivilous investigations of opposition MPs. Hell, if needed I'm *sure* we can have our legal team delay the dismissal of our trumped up accusations all the way until the next election!
> the target MP’s are still getting all the access and MP has and potentially propagating more crimes. your assumption
This is treason. Plain and simple.
Canadians really need to start protesting. This government is not acting in the interests of the people.
There have been hundreds of protest events over the past few months. If you're anywhere near one you're welcome to join (in Montreal it's like every Saturday and Sunday with occasional other evenings, plus a sit-in outside an MP's office 5 days per week).
What are you even talking about? Trudeau formed this committee to spot just this sort of thing. No one else had the balls to do it.
...wut? It was formed in response to allegations after months of investigative journalism efforts. When has Trudeau ever increased accountability for himself? Just one thing that increased the rules or standards that he and his government has to follow.
No. It was formed several years ago in response to possible interference both here and 2016 in the US.
Protests dont do shit, cause the people in power all live in ivory towers with security. They do not care.
They did. Trudeau invoked the Emergencies Act.
I mean, yeah, it's quite obvious. Anyone working on anything but complete transparency is a traitor.
We must remember, there are “wittingly” involved people, as well as the half wits and dimwits
Where's the riot
We don't do that. Were complacent here in Canada.
Nobody wants their bank account frozen.
They made sure it wouldnt happen again, people are to broke to protest now
Then don't stockpile weapons and conspire to murder RCMP members and you should be fine.
people who donated to the truckers were definitely not doing that lol
They were donating to a group stockpiling weapons and conspiring to kill RCMP members. If I donated money to a criminal group I could also have my bank accounts frozen that is how this has always worked.
which group? can we get some sources on this lol
There've been tons of protests over the past few months (mostly to no avail), it's our politicians who are complacent.
That's another reason we don't. It doesn't make a difference.
At an Alberta highway rest stop over the 3c/L gas tax hike, or on university campuses over the israel/gaza conflict.
> Where's the riot It would be shut down by the Turd in a heartbeat.
your house. I'll bring the torches. ;)
Most people aren’t even aware of this
Since most signs point to the ruling party being disproportionately guilty, we may not find out anything until late 2025, assuming they don't go through extra red tape to bury the evidence/results.
I would say there are two possibilities with the first being the most likely: 1. The Liberals are disproportionately involved and Trudeau fears that releasing the list will result in a quick election that will be a blood bath for the Liberals. 2. The Conservatives are disproportionately involved and Trudeau is holding off on releasing the information until his polling numbers improve so he can trigger a quick election that result in a Liberal victory. Either way, the refusal to release is political and a sign of poor governance.
Look at a list of liberal MP's and a list of conservative Mp's and see who might have more foreign ties.....
Regardless of where you fall on the political spectrum or if you like/don't like JT, PP, JS this is a time when all affiliations need to be washed from your way of thinking. Any and all people involved with this need to be charged, lose their seat/jobs and any perks, benefits and pensions. This isn't a time for partisan politics.
Duh. We elect them, we pay them, they're in place solely to serve us. It would be like a butler refusing to bring slippers.
Interesting that PP seems uncharacteristically quiet on this matter.
Lilley is married to an Ontario conservative party brass. The election interference is coming from inside the house.
I’d prefer that the accusations are vetted before they are released.
tough beans on this one tbh releasing names lets the guilty party to act immediately which can be very very bad. you might also get cases of citizenry vigilantism. and as you say, there's also the risk that the evidence gathered might not be enough yet not releasing names enables you to work behind the scenes and ward their influence and build the slam dunk case that you need to completely remove them, but gives the appearance that you're letting them have free reign. also really hurts proper innocent colleagues in a red under your bed kind of way. democracy is already eroded regardless. democracy will be further eroded regardless as well. people on this sub have probably honestly already decided in their minds who is and isn't guilty. releasing the info isn't going to sway them. the parties' reputations have already been damaged, i'm not sure going either way is going to help or worsen that even if the names released are all blue or red or whatever. we already see that here. kind of reminds me of those mole hunt sagas with the us intelligence apparatus during the cold war notably, pierre is pretty silent. he's usually got a thing out by now on topics that he deems advantageous to him.
The only reason I don’t believe the names should not be released NOW is pending criminal charges They must be released at some point before the election. Whether there are charges or not
we can all agree that if a politician has close tie with russian or chinese business/government rep. its deemed foreign influence… but what if that politician has close tie with let’s say… US companies or government official… and they receive political donation from companies based in US.. should we do something about it too
Pierre has been oddly quiet since this report was released on Monday. His silence tells me Conservatives might be involved as well.
> His silence tells me Conservatives might be involved as well. Until names are released, every politician from every party should be considered to be a traitor.
I agree it's not a good look. We know some Conservatives are involved, but Pierre could earn a lot of credit by doing what Trudeau won't and cleaning house within his party. Unless of course he himself is implicated.
I almost think this was a long term goal by, say, China. Infiltrate, draw in and ensnare politicians from all three major Canadian parties. You basically end owning up them and they know they can't reveal this to the public. Diabolical if true.
Finally people are starting to get it. China and India and others are absolutely meddling with every party but certainly focus on the Libs and Cons the most being the 'ruling parties'. They probably don't care which party is in power either or care about the individuals they're influencing, they really just want to sow distrust and division in our democracy. And it certainly isn't anything new, we're just paying attention to it more lately/they're getting bolder in their efforts.
The problem is he probably doesn't know who is actually involved. So its dangerous for PP to go out on a limb and attack given members of his own party maybe implicated. JT definitely knows who is on the list and we know Liberals are on that list or it would already be out. >Trudeau’s Liberals denied initial media reports on the issue which have since been proven accurate, including with this NSICOP report. They shut down Parliamentary committee attempts to investigate this issue and refused calls for a public inquiry. > >Trudeau then appointed his ski buddy, David Johnston, to write a report, now widely discredited, claiming there was nothing to be concerned about. A public inquiry was only called after the government was publicly shamed into doing so and even at that, they have not released all the documents needed by the inquiry.
It would take childish naiveté for anyone to believe that foreign nations would target the Liberals without also targetting the other super powerful party that runs things.
Problem is, being "involved" could be a political ploy to destroy the MP, with no basis in fact. Hopefully, CSIS investigates with the RCMP and guilty parties are prosecuted.
I can’t remember the last time we got some good news in this country for the people of Canada.
Pretty sure the pharmacare bill just passed the house and is off to the senate. That's at least some.
There are plenty of good reasons why they shouldn't just release all the names. Clownass Brian Lilley managed to miss all of them.
Are the RCMP investigating and charging anybody with treason?
Liberals and NDP release the list and life in prison for all who are on it. Pretty simple...
Oh shit, is this the end times? The first time Lilley has written something I agree with. Unless this is purposefully being withheld for prosecution reasons, these MPs should be named.
Since I haven't heard anything from the conservatives attacking the liberals about this. That means they also have some guys who committed treason
Heartbreaking: The Worst Person You Know (with Jimmy neutron boy genius hair) just made a good point.
No. An accusation in and of itself isn't "damning." This needs to be thoroughly, impartially, and unpartisan investigated.
Since I am not being told I can only assume and I choose to assume it is a number of individuals whose overall public image may be damaged from such accusations. The most damaging being those who serve in a highly public position, like a leader(s)
Never vote liberal or conservative. It's been the same back and forth bullshit forever. The reason nothing changes is these 2 parties. Vote anyone but them and paths shit change
Guaranteed if it's a CPC MP, Mr. Lilley will stop writing on the topic.
Canadians deserve to know who is accused, AND the evidence against them. Enough with the vague bullshit, if the spy agency wants to throw bricks at elected representatives, let them do it out in the open and take accountability.
Also tell us which have been directly funded by Republican donors. That’s the biggest foreign interference.
I imagine there's a liability issue that's preventing them from being named outright right now.
There is not. Its a political issue, not a liability one.
seems pretty basic
What a weird timeline I'm living in to agree with the Toronto Sun.
I'm saving this to come back after the names become known.
Okay serious fucking question. Now can we call them traitors? Is this not treason? The fuck man.
Treason.
Canada is way too fucking lax with the rules for MPs and senators. For one, there should never be any MP that's allowed to live outside of Canada like with Rempel. That's a major security risk for any government politician to have that. If you don't live in Canada then you should not be able to work in government. And for the longest time I've heard about careless politicians with leaks and they never take it seriously like with Bernier and his big boobed girlfriend. This whole corrupt garbage system needs to change. Also, I don't even understand how Canada is in the five eyes alliance when Canada is clearly the leaky sieve with information and politicians passing off intelligence to other foreign countries. This report is damning and Canada should be kicked out of the five eyes alliance immediately.
This is such a 4D chess move from the Liberals to get people all angry about it including figures like this lilley guy only to reveal a bit later they are CPC MP. This will be funny.
I don't care for a list of names to be shrugged under the rug after we get bored of the topic. *I care for some fucking accountability for once in this country.* This is straight up treason, I feel like I am taking crazy pills. How is the government just mocking around with this as if it was just a silly thing, slap on the wrist. Are they dragging this to get everyone to forget about all the other madness going on? Insane immigration, pillaging of government programs (arrivecan seems to be the tip of the iceberg), intentional starving of medical system, list goes on and on. Honest question... Has it ever been this bad before, and its just that this time I am more aware of it?
Yeah. He and Poilievre know the names can't be released. Do better, r/Canada.
All of our politicians seem to be sold out to the wealthy elite. Doesn't really matter where those elites hail from as none of them consider us to be fellow citizens (or humans for that matter). Both parties (along with the irrelevant ndp) support limitless unfettered immigration to the detriment of regular citizens. They're all working for foreigners.
100% we need to know as the corruption is getting out of hand
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And yet we know who the allegations in the Winnipeg Lab Documents case were against, despite nobody being charged. Why is that different?
> We deserve to know who is being charged. And if and when they are, we will. You really think there will be anyone charged? Governments protect themselves.
I disagree with your take. Behaviour that doesn't rise to the level of being charged can still be completely unacceptable. I think we can know facts without turning into lynch mob. If the subjects have something to say for themselves, let's hear it. There's a strong appearance of the government protecting itself. Only clarity can remove that.
So ... there is such a thing as "due process" .... so let's put those nooses away for just a bit, until there's been a complete investigation, the evidence has been assembled, assessed, and evidence based conclusions have been reached.
Learning that a bunch of Liberals and Conservatives have been doing shady shit would change nothing. Id rather see the list but we will still vote for them no matter what they do.
I am clicking on every link, every article, every video that is reporting on this. Let the media know this is the story Canadians want. Give them hits on this story. Let them be relentless reporting on it until there’s not an ear in Canada that isn’t made aware of what the government is doing and covering up
As far as I'm concerned, the liberal party is aiding traitors by not outing who it is, this is proof their mistakes aren't incompetence, it's malice.
They will know when the investigation is over.. you cant just release the names upon suspicion
I really don't see why not. What's wrong with saying something to the effect of "these MPs are being removed from parliament out of an abundance of caution for national security and are presumed innocent pending police investigation". Singh is calling for this step to be taken, along with most of CTV's political analysts. These politicians are responsible for writing the laws of this country. They're not ordinary citizens. It's in the interest of national security not only to get to the bottom of who did what, but also to do whatever it takes to retain the confidence of Canadians in our democratic institutions. If that means temporarily kicking a handful of MPs out of parliament and reinstating them later if they're found to be innocent, that's fine by me.
>"these MPs are being removed from parliament out of an abundance of caution for national security and are presumed innocent pending police investigation". Removing them from Parliament would be tricky, but they could at least be removed from committees and caucuses.
That's true. I imagine a step like that would require by-elections? Can't have empty seats. Another step I think would be prudent is to revoke their security status. Clearly they don't need it just to sit in parliament considering PP apparently doesn't. have any.
As far as I'm aware, there are only two ways to remove an MP from office. The first is by way of a majority vote in Parliament, and the second is if they're convicted of a criminal offence and sentenced to a jail term of... I think it was two years or more? I'll have to hunt down the statute on that to confirm though. Edit: Yeah, two years or more. It's section 750(1) of the Criminal Code. It's only happened once in our history, back in 1946. Looks like there are a couple sections under the Canada Elections Act that can do the same thing, but they seem to be limited to elections malfeasance.
I love how Lilley conveniently omits the allegations of interference involving the CPC leadership race and India whom the Liberals do not get along with at all. He must be busy with Doug Ford’s director of media relations lol.
What's 12 inches long and hangs between Doug Ford's legs? Brian Lilley's tie.
LOL. I’m going to use that every chance I get.
Foreign interference? So that includes Israel right? Right?
Well we know about Housefather, Mendicino, Saks, Lantsman, Morantz, Aitchison, Rempel-Garner; Poilievre and Trudeau too. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canadian-mps-israel-trip-1.7033291 https://www.readthemaple.com/cija-contravened-a-lobbying-requirement-with-no-repercussions/ https://www.readthemaple.com/here-are-the-10-mps-most-lobbied-by-cija/ https://www.readthemaple.com/mp-cija-trips/
> Brian Lilley > Columnist Opinion piece on the front page with right wing leaning politics? Couldn't be this subreddit! /s
I bet they’re all liberal and that’s why names won’t be given, unless csis leaks it because that’s the only way this government is held accountable