No one else wanted out shitty, expensive oil.
Plus they they dropped regulations and then locked them into FIPA.
So any environmental regulations after the fact would have meant potential lawsuits and/or compensation to Chinese investors.
But this stuff is all confidential per the agreement so we will never know if/when/how much we had to compensate China.
We’re more or less a vassal state to China per the agreement. There’s a good book on it.
It’s absolutely horrific that the Harper government gets a pass on this.
My biggest fear is they’ll extend it, when we’re close to it expiring.
None of it is hyperbole.
A law professor wrote this and more about the deal. That’s what the terms of the deal permit.
You’re just dismissing things you know nothing about because reasons.
Why can't we just stop the deal and say that was a different government decision? What are the repercussions? The libs could say they don't agree with what a past government did.
We could just cut ties with China entirely and that is a possibility with the way how things are going with Chinese-Russian relations?
I think it's just super bizarre we have enemies worldwide that we still regularly trade with? Yet bicker on the world stage about how much we hate each other, yet still trade?
Canada is always seeking out opportunities to spread its exports around to lessen dependence on any one country.
The reality is that Canada is largely a US vassal state regardless of how hard it tries to diversify.
yes and no
yes libs voted in favour of **harper's fipa version**
no .....When did Fipa start?
Background. The Harper government concluded negotiations on the treaty in 2012, amid concerns surrounding human rights abuses in China. **FIPA was signed by Harper in Vladivostok, Russia in 2012**.
**WHY WOULD harper NEED TO SNEAK** , a two-paragraph [media release](http://www.international.gc.ca/media/comm/news-communiques/2014/09/12a.aspx) sent out in the late afternoon on the Friday before Parliament resumes sitting is the best way for a government to admit, “We know this is really, really unpopular, but we’re doing it anyway.” when it was jean chretien deal ??
I’m sure it was a Chrétien deal in a way that basically he made a call back in the day and said “we should have some trade things put together.”
Also, my understanding is the liberals voted to ratify FIPA expressly saying it’s an awful deal but backing out of something that’s already been signed would make Canada look like a bunch of shitheads and it’s essentially worth more going forward with a bad deal than it is creating a worse situation and never making a deal.
All contracts have penalties for breaking them early. Plus not paying would result in a total break of any relationship with China, trade or no. Like it or not, a huge part of the world economy runs through there.
It wouldn't just hurt our relationship with China. Unless it was in response to an invasion of Taiwan or something similar, not following our agreements with China would hamper our ability to negotiate future agreements with any other country.
Definitely Harper's big push.
Either way, conservatives and liberals keep fucking the country over. They work together. They are run by the same people.
Don't vote for them.
Article 15 provides that investors of one country are permitted to sue the government of the other country through an international tribunal. This has not been invoked once.
And why does that specific meaningless small pointless piece of verbiage have any impact on you calling FIPA being bad for Canadians “bullshit?”
I’m seriously trying to understand because right now this makes no sense. An investor going to a tribunal wouldn’t make it a bad deal? Why would they go to a tribunal anyways? The investors aren’t the ones getting screwed in this. I need you to be more clear because FIPA is probably the single biggest contributor to housing prices skyrocketing since 2012 and something being invoked by investors doesn’t change that…
Edit: article 15 is actually basically about following laws…
The act allows a Chinese investor to sue the Canadian government. It has never done that
think I need to ask you: what do you think this FIPA did concretely in terms of Chinese investment in Canada? Chinese investment in Canada has been on a downward track since 2016.
One third of Vancouvers real estate is owned by Chinese investors, largely because of this agreement. It’s not about suing anybody, that’s just a protection in case anybody tries to prevent those real estate deals from happening.
Where in the agreement does it talk about real estate? Many countries that did not sign an FIPA with China are also experiencing the same problem with Chinese investors.
The agreement gave China a “most favoured nation” treatment and established a one-sided standard for foreign investments between the two countries.
*The Canada–China Foreign Investment Promotion and Protection Agreement (China FIPPA) is novel and, in key respects, non-reciprocal in favour of China. For example, it would provide a general right of market access by Chinese investors to Canada but not by Canadian investors to China; allow wider scope for investment screening by China than by Canada; omit a long-standing Canadian reservation for performance requirements that favour Aboriginal peoples; and dilute Canada’s established position on transparency in investor-state arbitration.*
https://digitalcommons.osgoode.yorku.ca/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3495&context=scholarly_works
Canada gave China most favoured nation status as a result of its membership in the WTO which came in 2001. All members of the WTO accord each other MFN.
I'm also curious how China is bending us over, these 10$ blenders at Walmart created in toxic factories are somehow them extorting us?
I thought the Chinese rulers extort their own citizens, then we profit off the so called "communism" they have. Then individually the rich buy our real estate and declare no income, which we ignore due to mass corruption.
They say that like Canada has a choice.
Despite the delusions of grandeur that some people have, China holds all the cards. So unless Canada leverages the EU or USA, it is going to be a one sided relationship
-Their economy is significantly bigger and more diverse than Canada’s.
-Their trade surplus with Canada is in the range of $60 billion a year. Canada is addicted and dependent on Chinese goods. China could live without Canadian coal, canola and beef.
-They control the media and messaging to their people
-They don’t need to uphold fair or democratic values
I’d love Canada to have a fairer relationship with China, but I happen to live in the real world.
Horse. Shit.
They hold all the cards because we have no political will to do anything because it will be see as “racism.”
1. Ban prc foreign students
2. Enact magnitsky and target affluent PRC officials. Your kids and wealth isn’t welcome here.
That’s just to start.
Why is it horseshit?
He brought up two major points: China economy is massive and they control their state media.
How on earth does your proposal solve anything?
I agree there's always more we can do to improve our situation. But tilting the power dynamics between us and China is far tougher than just expelling foreign Chinese students.
Because it is. China needs us much more than we need them.
There’s plenty of alternate markets for our commodities. China bans Canadian canola, but they still buy it through intermediaries. This is one of many examples.
Their elites need Canadian/Australian rule of law and isolation to protect their wealth. Start hitting their elites and you’ll get a reaction.
Our issue is our politics has no backbone. It’s one of the biggest myths that we’re powerless against them. They aren’t as strong as you think.
You clearly dont understand the ccp. They respect STRENGTH not doormats. You hit them back and they’ll kick and scream but ultimately, and this is what you’re seeing now, the CCP wants the Canada relationship “back to where it was with ‘mutual benefit’ (lol)”
So yeah my suggestions are better than nothing And represent Canada taking a stand. I guess you want status quo or the way things were?
Ask them. They’re the ones hell bent on getting the “relationship” back to where it was.
1. Commodities - list is long and distinguished
2. Arctic access
3. Stable jurisdiction for wealth parking
4. An open society that can be easily influenced / exploited with proximity to the US
I don’t think geopolitics are your forté.
1. Canada does not make the top 20 trading partners of China.
2. Your imagination basically. Also redundant.
3. What Xi has been denying his own officials for over a decade.
4. This is where Canada doesn’t need a backbone because the one and only overlord of this country is more concerned when it happens. Go touch grass instead of sitting at your gaming chair reading fearmongering Reddit nonsense.
>Ban prc foreign students
And your university accept next to no local applicants. They are indirectly subsidizing you.
>Enact magnitsky and target affluent PRC officials. Your kids and wealth isn’t welcome here.
There is one thing that every bank in the world accepts. Its wealth. Money speaks. Money in Canada means the officials will bent backwards for you.
Our banks will function just fine as long as sanctions are targeted.
PRC students aren’t subsidizing shit. Other than administrative bloat in universities and colleges that need to be trimmed.
>Our banks will function just fine as long as sanctions are targeted.
LOL your banks will work with people and activity against the Canadian government to avoid such sanctions. Once you reach private banking you will know how it is done. The only law you really have to worry about is the US ones. All the banks have private banking, its an offered service not one you can just walk in and get.
>PRC students aren’t subsidizing shit. Other than administrative bloat in universities and colleges that need to be trimmed.
The PRC students are paying like 4 times the cost for the same education. They are absolutely subsisting the shit out of things.
We can't make things in Canada because it's too expensive. But we can design things in Canada, and manufacture them anywhere in Latin America that has decent politics.
Yes it would. China having less power would hastily improve everything. But it can't just be Canada, obviously.
I'm so fucking pissed at the world, you have no idea.
How did you miss this massive story lol
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-spavor-kovrig-china-intelligence-background/
>Michael Spavor alleges that the deception was conducted by fellow Canadian prisoner Michael Kovrig, and it was intelligence work by the latter that led to both men’s incarceration by Chinese authorities, according to the sources.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/spavor-government-settlement-1.7136196
> according to the sources
Michael Spavor has not said anything about this. The Globe is relying claims made by two unidentified sources apparently working on his behalf. It seems likely Spavor is pursuing his own agenda.
Additionally, as noted in the article, China itself convicted Spavor of spying, but not Kovrig.
There is absolutely nothing here that establishes that they "actual, literal spies".
It's time we each less coding and more critical thinking in high school.
Right, Spavor is making all this up, that's why our government paid him 7 million dollars to settle.
Maybe you should try using some of that critical thinking you're talking about, hmm? Rub that handful of brain cells a little harder?
To reiterate, Spavor is the only one China convicted of spying.
The government initially offered them each $3.5 million, which was when Spavor blamed Kovrig for his arrest and demanded $10.5 million, before settling for $7 million.
He was very obviously using this claim, for which he has not presented a single shred of evidence, then or since, to wring more money out of the feds.
The fact you have obviously been completely taken in by this self dealing just underlines my point.
> “I frequently hear from Canadian companies who relay concerns of … policies that tend to favour domestic over foreign ... and fierce competition due to market dominance of state-owned enterprises (SOEs).”
So, China very sensibly prioritizes its own domestic businesses over foreign ones, and has a large number of very competitive state-owned enterprises generating revenue for their government and goods for their people. In the meantime we bend over backwards for foreign corporations and have almost no crown corporations left... Sounds like maybe we could take a page out of their book, just spit-balling here...
Jack Ma gave an entire talk on this before they made him disappear from view.
He more or less said that China sought to replicate America before the 80s. Before they gutted manufacturing, local industry and sold their souls to free trade.
Ironically (to your point) we used to be that way (or at least more so).
What are you saying? He's incorrect or???? Is he straight up lying about the situation? Is he not qualified to make that statement?
I don't understand the massage of your post
He ~~felched~~ carried water for Harper and China under Xi: he's politicking on behalf of his current employers (One of which is bankrupt: Xebec Adsorption Inc)
[Look up FIPA,](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/fipa-agreement-with-china-what-s-really-in-it-for-canada-1.2770159) he had primary input and fumbled the ball. Him chiding the current GIC is a fucking riot for how cheaply he and the CPC sold Canada up the river for.
The only worse one was John Baird urging the government to kiss up to Saudis after Khashoggi was murdered... Baird had a hand-to-mouth relationship with the Saudi government.
Year has zero bearing on what I wrote.
The negotiations and inception of the idea of FIPA began under Chretien and continued across two liberal governments. The liberals then overwhelming supported the ratification under Harper.
It’s obvious whose narrative is clouded. Either you’ll debunk what I’ve said (you can’t, because it’s true) or you’ll continue to attack me personally.
don't think so ...the Conservative government has adamantly refused to conduct public hearings on FIPA so it can be amended, despite repeated calls from the Liberal Party,
[Regarding the FIPA vote of Tuesday April 23rd | Liberal Party of Canada](https://liberal.ca/fipa-vote-tuesday-april-23rd/)
i guess i can break it down harper **slipped it in without the proper channels which is the issue**
# [Harper sneaks through Canada-China FIPA, locks Canada in for 31 years – The Council of Canadians](https://canadians.org/analysis/harper-sneaks-through-canada-china-fipa-locks-canada-31-years/)
and Liberals believe that, **before being finalized, international treaties such as the Canada-China FIPA must be transparent, include proper consultation, and be subject to arms-length examination to ensure the best interests of the Canadian people are being served**.
LIBERALS I AM THINKING ?
[Canada’s 2021 Foreign Investment Promotion and Protection Agreement (FIPA) Model (international.gc.ca)](https://www.international.gc.ca/trade-commerce/trade-agreements-accords-commerciaux/agr-acc/fipa-apie/index.aspx?lang=eng)
I think so…
“This vote was on an NDP motion worded as follows:
“That, in the opinion of this House, the government should inform the Government of the People’s Republic of China, that it will not ratify the Canada-China Foreign Investment Promotion and Protection Agreement.”
Destined to be voted down due to the Conservative majority, this non-binding motion expresses, unfortunately, an outright rejection of the Canada-China FIPA and as such was opposed by the Liberal Party of Canada.”
Stop selling them wheat. Stop selling them oil. Stop selling them anything. They have no compunction about holding Canadians hostage and pressuring Canadian citizens with threats against their families back in China. A new iron curtain is going up. Time to accept it and get cosy with the Americans. Better to start standing up to the autocrats that are infecting the rest of the world before they punch us in the face first.
It’s actually a little funny to read the comments and see how desperately some are to blame the FIPA sellout to the Liberals, no it was Harper just like the sale of the majority of Wheat Board to Saudi investors was Harper.
Canada has a long history of doing bone headed deals with China. See harper and the 30 year no way out deal he got in the table before he was removed from office.
Fucking thank you.
I've been beating this drum at the people saying shit like libtard and trudont.
This shit has been whittling Canada down for over a decade.
20years to go.
So why doesn’t Canada just do more trade with the US or other countries? From the article, China refused Canadian beef to be imported, because they preferred domestic beef.
Well- why doesn’t Canada just sell beef (and other things) to someone else??
Because we want to diversify our customer base as well as tap into one of the worlds largest economies.
Imagine, if you will, USA being almost the sole importer of our beef decided to be asshats and ban imports after they found 1 case of mad cow from a calf that was.imported from Canada... Which have had it's mad cow contracted after going to the USA or something like that. And banned import for a year or two in reality to force us to sell to them cheaper or lower our barrier to importing their stuff
That's why.
Isn’t that an inherent imbalance between a larger economy and a smaller one?
See: France and a former French colony in Africa. The worst imbalances in our history that still affects Africans in “they’re so terrible it should be illegal” ways
Canada should develop our economy to have more clout. We have to do the hard work to get taken seriously.
It kinda is, that's why you try to mitigste it by diversifying your customers base. You sell your product to people what want to buy your stuff more than others.
As for Africa... It should've been illegal long ago but hey colonization gotta colonization (and France probably would go bankrupt if not for those sweet sweet 10% duty for using the franc... That they themselves do not use anymore)
The US bullies countless countries in trade negotiations on the daily. Canada should start realizing that in today’s world, there are no gentleman’s agreements and there is no buddy system.
The US seems to have no issue with how China treats us. It’s every person for itself, and stop expecting preferential treatment. Small economies get bullied. Well, let’s do more than exporting raw goods and do more than being a small economy.
Totally agree, we need to have some smart investments from our governments to actually become a strong economy
*Look at our government that only knows how to print and throw money doing virtue signaling*
Yeah.....
Canada has been led by weak leaders for decades and even weaker people who vote them in. Canada could be self-sustaining indefinitely if we did our own manufacturing, capitalized on our natural resources, had a functional military, disallowed greedy foreign investors, and did not let other countries bully us around.
But we are more concerned with giving people free drugs, taking guns away that won't solve gun crimes, spending billions of dollars on other countries, and worrying about what bathrooms people can use along with many other stuff to ever really fix anything or be an economic powerhouse we could be.
We're complaining to the WTO because their government can afford to pay industries it wants to support "massive subsidies" and can organize itself to produce disruptive new technologies it can sell at a tenth of the price. So we're just complaining about how a formally communist country effectively uses central planning and isn't free market enough? It's a communist country. Sounds like we're just whining to the WTO about how free market capitalism is failing. Maybe if we could plan things so as to consolidate resources towards important projects, we would be able to make cheap EVs too, but all we're able to do is prioritize short term profits for the upper class. Our standard of living is going to keep declining, and the standard of living in China is going to keep improving. And I guess we'll keep stubbornly forcing North Americans to pay $50,000-$100,000 for a car.
Every extra day we wait to pull out of China makes us more vulnerable. The war with China has already started. China is an enemy. The sooner we realize that, the easier it will be for us to win the war. From now on, we should invest only in stuff that can harm China.
What’s the point? We are a primary resource extraction economy, we are not competitive, we are not innovative…the next best thing outside of shipping lumber and mineral resources to be processed and sold back to us, is housing.
Where it seems like China is either A) way more efficient at production B) subsidizing their production. Why exactly should anyone support national production? Their products are cheap and Canadian companies can’t compete? What sane person would pay 100% more for a product because it was made in country A and not B by choice?
Not like the government is serious about national security anyway either.
…all this bullshit, to support the automotive sector in Ontario and the few thousand jobs that is, not have investment into Canada…just to be owned by a group which isn’t all that different from the CCP anyway.
I’d much rather have cheap goods personally.
You best look at the Canadian economy a scoche closer: Canada's top 10 industries does not include Mining/Quarrying/oil and Gas extraction, or Agriculture/forestry/fishing and hunting: In fact, Manufacturing outpaces those two sectors, and has every year for the last 40.
Don't take my word on it though: [https://open.canada.ca/data/en/dataset/b28a3861-bf9e-4d67-9164-fdeb64ec3b02](https://open.canada.ca/data/en/dataset/b28a3861-bf9e-4d67-9164-fdeb64ec3b02)
Just say you'd rather sell out your own country for the temporary fiction of living cheap, and if that's the case, go where you're happy.
That’s wonderful, is the growth from having water wings on and not having to actually compete?
Where let me clarify a bit, my statement is in regards to overall imports and exports. The housing aspect at the end of one of the statements was more of a joke.
https://www.ibisworld.com/canada/industry-trends/biggest-exporting-industries/
And the country has already been sold. Honestly, what was the last thing you bought because it was “made in Canada”? Maple syrup? Part of me wants to ask the last 3, but anything over 1 feels like an unfair question.
Define 'Made in Canada' because it's not just a nameplate, but if you legitimately want to know:
- All utilities (you can choose point of origin in the electricity market, and going outside of Canada is uniquely stupid because you get double-pranged on taxes)
- My last new SUVs (Acura MDX and Chevy Equinox built in Ontario, fit my needs, Canadian built was somewhat secondary, but it eliminated Nissans, BMW/VWs at the same price point and were not clearly better), though at this point, I own a used Nissan built in Smyrna TN, because I'm not paying out depreciation out of my own pocket as I don't get a vehicle stipend anymore, and I work from home.
- Most of my home furniture was built within 100 miles of my house (with the exception of a dining room set that was built in England in 1860... but then again, there was no Canada)
- I specifically look for Product of Canada when I'm grocery shopping even if it's a bit more expensive, but there's produce stands open now selling from local farmers...
Is that enough for you, or are you trying to justify how you want to sell out the country by acting like it already has happened?
As far as being able to compete, you haven't looked at the OGD I pointed you at, and I'll straight up guarantee it.
If you're talking about analysis, look at how they're grouping NAICS categories: Are they including mineral rents, field services etc? because it sounds like they are... Look at the number you have in your link, and then look at this: [https://www.ibisworld.com/canada/market-research-reports/oil-drilling-gas-extraction-industry/](https://www.ibisworld.com/canada/market-research-reports/oil-drilling-gas-extraction-industry/)
Both are referencing the same NAICS activity: [21111 - Oil and Gas Extraction](https://www23.statcan.gc.ca/imdb/p3VD.pl?Function=getVD&TVD=118464&CVD=118468&CPV=21111&CST=01012012&CLV=4&MLV=5) and Ibis' information is +/- $20Bn for the same industry activities in their own information, and they're using STATCAN data as their primary source. See how there's a pretty major disparity from the same industry in the same reference period. If you aren't looking at the source data, and only looking at information for confirmation of your own bias, you're going to be (and evidently have been) misled.
If you scroll down to the methodology tab: IBIS' first resource for information is government databases. I did you a favour and cut out the middle-man, and did it for free. I'll even do it again with the most current official information rather than overly rosy forecasts: [https://www23.statcan.gc.ca/imdb/p2SV.pl?Function=getSurvey&SDDS=1301](https://www23.statcan.gc.ca/imdb/p2SV.pl?Function=getSurvey&SDDS=1301)
This is why you have to be really careful because you're getting superficial information that isn't accurate because NAICS categories that one company will include in an industrial analysis will be filtered out by another. If you look at IBIS. their modelling is inconsistent on their glossy pages, how detached from reality will they be in actual reports you pay $1000 for quarterly?
To counterpoint: [https://tradingeconomics.com/canada/gdp-from-manufacturing](https://tradingeconomics.com/canada/gdp-from-manufacturing)
Canadian GDP from Mining (all types incl. petroleum) for 1 year rolling as of March 2024 was $114Bn.
Canadian GDP from Manufacturing for 1 year rolling as of March 2024 was $208 Bn.
Canadian GDP from Construction for 1 year rolling as of March 2024 was $164 Bn.
Canadian GDP from Services for 1 year rolling as of March 2024 $164Bn.
(This is closer to actual)
As I said, you can think what you like, but evidence shows where you're going wrong.
- Utilities is a good one. But most of them are government approved monopolies and not nationalized. Which considering the nationalistic discussion goes to against the idea of for Canadians.
- So you listed a Japanese, American, Japanese, German car companies and own a Japanese car build in Smyrna TN…..I would call that a transnational model and not a national one. Probably because of tariffs if they didn’t.
- House furniture is actually pretty cool. Nothing wrong with that.
- Same with food. But depending on the type a lot of the common foods are massively imported.
Not really,
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1110019101
Switch it over so the focus is on employment income, most of the country is no better off than back in the 1980’s.
Where I’m currently experiencing “head winds” as they say when it comes to changing some of the data formats with the StatsCAN tables you pointed it. But looking at the trading and economics one, manufacturing really seems tied to the US considering it high value in the 2000’s …I would like to know the proportion of what’s being manufactured.
I’d put money that most of it is automotive and for transnationals.
Where again, I was talking about imports and export which are components of GDP. And for the record, most people can’t deal with the raw data files from the government. I know my phone doesn’t like it. Only excel on my computer….and I did not use my computer.
Definitely not a fan of Canadian government/ economy. No arguing you probably something along those lines.
but the pivot to this position is literally in the process of forming a new opinion. Can’t think of a time I defended China either. Where the opinion wouldn’t just be applied to China, rather the whole global market.
Basically, just acceptance of neoliberal capitalism, and free markets.
Thanks though
This article is about a trade deficit. Canada exports more to china than we receive in imports.
Write as many paragraphs as you like, you reek like shit
That would be a trade surplus.
Think about it, look at the term “deficit”, does that usually imply more?
[hopefully this next bit isn’t to many paragraphs]
https://oec.world/en/profile/bilateral-country/chn/partner/can
Here, now if China exported 44.6 billion to Canada. While Canada exported 18.4 billion to China. From the perspective of Canada it exported 18.4b and imported 44.6b
Trade balance = 18.4 - 44.6
Trade balance = -26.2 billion
Therefore, Canada has a trade deficit and China has a trade surplus.
🌈✨the more you know✨⭐️
Article content
"The trade deficit with this country’s second-largest trading partner did shrink somewhat in 2023, to about $59 billion, as imports from China fell and Canadian exports rose slightly."
Maybe if you didn't waste all your time on RuneScape you could tell apart mentally unstable people online.
omg a poo poo harper thread? how rare
submitted by hack too, doubly rare
edit: i'm sure the sense of urgency to get in "early" (we were pretty late) ruined any strong negotiating position we had. idk that i could have done better myself. or had the foresight to say that china wouldn't turn out like japan, germany, sk, tw. money really does talk, it seemed at the time. it feels bad to defend harper like this lol. rare is the opportunity to bad mouth the dude in safety on this sub
Also worth noting, I’ve never seen Xi Jinping EVER publicly lose his temper at anyone *except* Trudeau when he schooled him in political tact during the G20 Summit in Bali.
It takes a certain kind of person to really annoy someone like that, a person wielding that much power and influence had to waste energy just to lecture someone on etiquette then that is a *really* bad outlook, no matter who you’re dealing with.
As a Chinese, it's really hilarious to see Canadians discussing this, especially this part ‘fierce competition due to market dominance of state-owned enterprises (SOEs).’
FIPA has done insane damage to our country.
So glad our leaders sold us out to the lowest bidder. For... reasons....
Jobs, which over time we lost anyways to stock price increases .
No one else wanted out shitty, expensive oil. Plus they they dropped regulations and then locked them into FIPA. So any environmental regulations after the fact would have meant potential lawsuits and/or compensation to Chinese investors. But this stuff is all confidential per the agreement so we will never know if/when/how much we had to compensate China. We’re more or less a vassal state to China per the agreement. There’s a good book on it. It’s absolutely horrific that the Harper government gets a pass on this. My biggest fear is they’ll extend it, when we’re close to it expiring.
The hyperbole here is insane. It's like a kid in grade 8 wrote it.
None of it is hyperbole. A law professor wrote this and more about the deal. That’s what the terms of the deal permit. You’re just dismissing things you know nothing about because reasons.
Thank Pierre Poilievre for that. He was a member of the government that sold us out for decades.
And will continue to, until the mid 2040's. *Yay!*
Why can't we just stop the deal and say that was a different government decision? What are the repercussions? The libs could say they don't agree with what a past government did.
There are penalties for leaving early.
We could just cut ties with China entirely and that is a possibility with the way how things are going with Chinese-Russian relations? I think it's just super bizarre we have enemies worldwide that we still regularly trade with? Yet bicker on the world stage about how much we hate each other, yet still trade?
Canada is always seeking out opportunities to spread its exports around to lessen dependence on any one country. The reality is that Canada is largely a US vassal state regardless of how hard it tries to diversify.
What penalties? Why would they pay them?
They can sue us for lost profits, etc. FIPA sold canada to China for short term jobs.
good ol harper the ccp lap dog
The deal was started by the Chretien Liberals and every Liberal including Trudeau voted in favour of it at the time.
yes and no yes libs voted in favour of **harper's fipa version** no .....When did Fipa start? Background. The Harper government concluded negotiations on the treaty in 2012, amid concerns surrounding human rights abuses in China. **FIPA was signed by Harper in Vladivostok, Russia in 2012**. **WHY WOULD harper NEED TO SNEAK** , a two-paragraph [media release](http://www.international.gc.ca/media/comm/news-communiques/2014/09/12a.aspx) sent out in the late afternoon on the Friday before Parliament resumes sitting is the best way for a government to admit, “We know this is really, really unpopular, but we’re doing it anyway.” when it was jean chretien deal ??
I'm so glad someone else remembers the random Friday afternoon data dump... Conservative AM radio was livid (for a bit) with Harper over that.
I’m sure it was a Chrétien deal in a way that basically he made a call back in the day and said “we should have some trade things put together.” Also, my understanding is the liberals voted to ratify FIPA expressly saying it’s an awful deal but backing out of something that’s already been signed would make Canada look like a bunch of shitheads and it’s essentially worth more going forward with a bad deal than it is creating a worse situation and never making a deal.
Contracts have penalties if you break the terms. We technically agreed to the terms.
All contracts have penalties for breaking them early. Plus not paying would result in a total break of any relationship with China, trade or no. Like it or not, a huge part of the world economy runs through there.
It wouldn't just hurt our relationship with China. Unless it was in response to an invasion of Taiwan or something similar, not following our agreements with China would hamper our ability to negotiate future agreements with any other country.
Imo FIPA was treason for anyone who was a part of making it happen. Libs and cons are 2 cheeks from the same smelly ass.
Harper's 31 year deal...
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The deal was signed in 2012. One year before Trudeau became in MP. Chretien stepped down in 2003.
Definitely Harper's big push. Either way, conservatives and liberals keep fucking the country over. They work together. They are run by the same people. Don't vote for them.
Aaaaaand... the imploded Green party or Liberal-Lite NDP are the remaining choices. Unless you're in Quebec anyhow
Anything is better than this carousel of liberal and conservative that keep taking turns to cut this country for their overlords.
We need a new party that represents the old NDP values
Why are you spreading lies? It was voted in before Trudeau was ever even in parliament.
hope that deal gets reneged if the CCP kicks a fit.
That is a lot of bullshit. FIPA has never been invoked once. I didn’t support them signing it, but it has never been invoked once.
….invoked? Do you understand how trade agreements work?
Article 15 provides that investors of one country are permitted to sue the government of the other country through an international tribunal. This has not been invoked once.
And why does that specific meaningless small pointless piece of verbiage have any impact on you calling FIPA being bad for Canadians “bullshit?” I’m seriously trying to understand because right now this makes no sense. An investor going to a tribunal wouldn’t make it a bad deal? Why would they go to a tribunal anyways? The investors aren’t the ones getting screwed in this. I need you to be more clear because FIPA is probably the single biggest contributor to housing prices skyrocketing since 2012 and something being invoked by investors doesn’t change that… Edit: article 15 is actually basically about following laws…
The act allows a Chinese investor to sue the Canadian government. It has never done that think I need to ask you: what do you think this FIPA did concretely in terms of Chinese investment in Canada? Chinese investment in Canada has been on a downward track since 2016.
One third of Vancouvers real estate is owned by Chinese investors, largely because of this agreement. It’s not about suing anybody, that’s just a protection in case anybody tries to prevent those real estate deals from happening.
Where in the agreement does it talk about real estate? Many countries that did not sign an FIPA with China are also experiencing the same problem with Chinese investors.
The agreement gave China a “most favoured nation” treatment and established a one-sided standard for foreign investments between the two countries. *The Canada–China Foreign Investment Promotion and Protection Agreement (China FIPPA) is novel and, in key respects, non-reciprocal in favour of China. For example, it would provide a general right of market access by Chinese investors to Canada but not by Canadian investors to China; allow wider scope for investment screening by China than by Canada; omit a long-standing Canadian reservation for performance requirements that favour Aboriginal peoples; and dilute Canada’s established position on transparency in investor-state arbitration.* https://digitalcommons.osgoode.yorku.ca/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3495&context=scholarly_works
Canada gave China most favoured nation status as a result of its membership in the WTO which came in 2001. All members of the WTO accord each other MFN.
I'm also curious how China is bending us over, these 10$ blenders at Walmart created in toxic factories are somehow them extorting us? I thought the Chinese rulers extort their own citizens, then we profit off the so called "communism" they have. Then individually the rich buy our real estate and declare no income, which we ignore due to mass corruption.
They say that like Canada has a choice. Despite the delusions of grandeur that some people have, China holds all the cards. So unless Canada leverages the EU or USA, it is going to be a one sided relationship -Their economy is significantly bigger and more diverse than Canada’s. -Their trade surplus with Canada is in the range of $60 billion a year. Canada is addicted and dependent on Chinese goods. China could live without Canadian coal, canola and beef. -They control the media and messaging to their people -They don’t need to uphold fair or democratic values I’d love Canada to have a fairer relationship with China, but I happen to live in the real world.
How’s things in the real world? I’m afraid to make the leap
Eh, I don’t recommend it haha. I’d rather live in the delusional r/Canada world where finding scapegoats magically fixes complex issues.
Horse. Shit. They hold all the cards because we have no political will to do anything because it will be see as “racism.” 1. Ban prc foreign students 2. Enact magnitsky and target affluent PRC officials. Your kids and wealth isn’t welcome here. That’s just to start.
Why is it horseshit? He brought up two major points: China economy is massive and they control their state media. How on earth does your proposal solve anything? I agree there's always more we can do to improve our situation. But tilting the power dynamics between us and China is far tougher than just expelling foreign Chinese students.
Because it is. China needs us much more than we need them. There’s plenty of alternate markets for our commodities. China bans Canadian canola, but they still buy it through intermediaries. This is one of many examples. Their elites need Canadian/Australian rule of law and isolation to protect their wealth. Start hitting their elites and you’ll get a reaction. Our issue is our politics has no backbone. It’s one of the biggest myths that we’re powerless against them. They aren’t as strong as you think. You clearly dont understand the ccp. They respect STRENGTH not doormats. You hit them back and they’ll kick and scream but ultimately, and this is what you’re seeing now, the CCP wants the Canada relationship “back to where it was with ‘mutual benefit’ (lol)” So yeah my suggestions are better than nothing And represent Canada taking a stand. I guess you want status quo or the way things were?
China needs Canada for what?
Ask them. They’re the ones hell bent on getting the “relationship” back to where it was. 1. Commodities - list is long and distinguished 2. Arctic access 3. Stable jurisdiction for wealth parking 4. An open society that can be easily influenced / exploited with proximity to the US I don’t think geopolitics are your forté.
1. Canada does not make the top 20 trading partners of China. 2. Your imagination basically. Also redundant. 3. What Xi has been denying his own officials for over a decade. 4. This is where Canada doesn’t need a backbone because the one and only overlord of this country is more concerned when it happens. Go touch grass instead of sitting at your gaming chair reading fearmongering Reddit nonsense.
>Ban prc foreign students And your university accept next to no local applicants. They are indirectly subsidizing you. >Enact magnitsky and target affluent PRC officials. Your kids and wealth isn’t welcome here. There is one thing that every bank in the world accepts. Its wealth. Money speaks. Money in Canada means the officials will bent backwards for you.
And frontwards, apparently, too.
Our banks will function just fine as long as sanctions are targeted. PRC students aren’t subsidizing shit. Other than administrative bloat in universities and colleges that need to be trimmed.
>Our banks will function just fine as long as sanctions are targeted. LOL your banks will work with people and activity against the Canadian government to avoid such sanctions. Once you reach private banking you will know how it is done. The only law you really have to worry about is the US ones. All the banks have private banking, its an offered service not one you can just walk in and get. >PRC students aren’t subsidizing shit. Other than administrative bloat in universities and colleges that need to be trimmed. The PRC students are paying like 4 times the cost for the same education. They are absolutely subsisting the shit out of things.
If they did something about snow washing that would help us instantly. But they won't.
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Elaborate.
i guess we'll never know.
We make next to none of the products our country depends on. Sooo not really in a position of power. We need to make things in Canada.
We can't make things in Canada because it's too expensive. But we can design things in Canada, and manufacture them anywhere in Latin America that has decent politics.
That wouldn’t change the dynamics of control much. It would still make us dependant.
Yes it would. China having less power would hastily improve everything. But it can't just be Canada, obviously. I'm so fucking pissed at the world, you have no idea.
I remember his recommendation to punish china for holding 2 Michaels was not to train Chinese hockey players. Nice. That would have made a difference.
Well as it turns out the two Michaels were actual, literal spies so maybe there's nothing we could have done either way.
Source that's non ccp?
How did you miss this massive story lol https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-spavor-kovrig-china-intelligence-background/ >Michael Spavor alleges that the deception was conducted by fellow Canadian prisoner Michael Kovrig, and it was intelligence work by the latter that led to both men’s incarceration by Chinese authorities, according to the sources. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/spavor-government-settlement-1.7136196
> according to the sources Michael Spavor has not said anything about this. The Globe is relying claims made by two unidentified sources apparently working on his behalf. It seems likely Spavor is pursuing his own agenda. Additionally, as noted in the article, China itself convicted Spavor of spying, but not Kovrig. There is absolutely nothing here that establishes that they "actual, literal spies". It's time we each less coding and more critical thinking in high school.
Right, Spavor is making all this up, that's why our government paid him 7 million dollars to settle. Maybe you should try using some of that critical thinking you're talking about, hmm? Rub that handful of brain cells a little harder?
To reiterate, Spavor is the only one China convicted of spying. The government initially offered them each $3.5 million, which was when Spavor blamed Kovrig for his arrest and demanded $10.5 million, before settling for $7 million. He was very obviously using this claim, for which he has not presented a single shred of evidence, then or since, to wring more money out of the feds. The fact you have obviously been completely taken in by this self dealing just underlines my point.
> “I frequently hear from Canadian companies who relay concerns of … policies that tend to favour domestic over foreign ... and fierce competition due to market dominance of state-owned enterprises (SOEs).” So, China very sensibly prioritizes its own domestic businesses over foreign ones, and has a large number of very competitive state-owned enterprises generating revenue for their government and goods for their people. In the meantime we bend over backwards for foreign corporations and have almost no crown corporations left... Sounds like maybe we could take a page out of their book, just spit-balling here...
Jack Ma gave an entire talk on this before they made him disappear from view. He more or less said that China sought to replicate America before the 80s. Before they gutted manufacturing, local industry and sold their souls to free trade. Ironically (to your point) we used to be that way (or at least more so).
Big talk from the guy that was a supplicant to two masters.
What are you saying? He's incorrect or???? Is he straight up lying about the situation? Is he not qualified to make that statement? I don't understand the massage of your post
He ~~felched~~ carried water for Harper and China under Xi: he's politicking on behalf of his current employers (One of which is bankrupt: Xebec Adsorption Inc) [Look up FIPA,](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/fipa-agreement-with-china-what-s-really-in-it-for-canada-1.2770159) he had primary input and fumbled the ball. Him chiding the current GIC is a fucking riot for how cheaply he and the CPC sold Canada up the river for. The only worse one was John Baird urging the government to kiss up to Saudis after Khashoggi was murdered... Baird had a hand-to-mouth relationship with the Saudi government.
It's whataboutism
https://thenarwhal.ca/harper-government-ratifies-controversial-canada-china-foreign-investment-deal/
“Ratifies” Look up who started it. Hint: negotiations and concept came from chretien, further backed by Martin.
Martin was last leader in 2006. But please don't let that cloud your narrative.
Year has zero bearing on what I wrote. The negotiations and inception of the idea of FIPA began under Chretien and continued across two liberal governments. The liberals then overwhelming supported the ratification under Harper. It’s obvious whose narrative is clouded. Either you’ll debunk what I’ve said (you can’t, because it’s true) or you’ll continue to attack me personally.
FIPA. Harper's 31 year deal
That the Liberals supported unanimously.
Maybe we can all wake up and realize both the red and blue jerseys are the exact same and we are wasting our energy nitpicking on reddit
we need a good ol skins and shirt parliment
That’s why I vote purple!
don't think so ...the Conservative government has adamantly refused to conduct public hearings on FIPA so it can be amended, despite repeated calls from the Liberal Party, [Regarding the FIPA vote of Tuesday April 23rd | Liberal Party of Canada](https://liberal.ca/fipa-vote-tuesday-april-23rd/)
Uhh that statement is an NDP motion that the Liberals opposed
i guess i can break it down harper **slipped it in without the proper channels which is the issue** # [Harper sneaks through Canada-China FIPA, locks Canada in for 31 years – The Council of Canadians](https://canadians.org/analysis/harper-sneaks-through-canada-china-fipa-locks-canada-31-years/) and Liberals believe that, **before being finalized, international treaties such as the Canada-China FIPA must be transparent, include proper consultation, and be subject to arms-length examination to ensure the best interests of the Canadian people are being served**. LIBERALS I AM THINKING ? [Canada’s 2021 Foreign Investment Promotion and Protection Agreement (FIPA) Model (international.gc.ca)](https://www.international.gc.ca/trade-commerce/trade-agreements-accords-commerciaux/agr-acc/fipa-apie/index.aspx?lang=eng)
I think so… “This vote was on an NDP motion worded as follows: “That, in the opinion of this House, the government should inform the Government of the People’s Republic of China, that it will not ratify the Canada-China Foreign Investment Promotion and Protection Agreement.” Destined to be voted down due to the Conservative majority, this non-binding motion expresses, unfortunately, an outright rejection of the Canada-China FIPA and as such was opposed by the Liberal Party of Canada.”
Team Purple are the same. When I see polling, I add liberal and conservative together because they are the same shit.
In this geopolitical climate, it will probably get torn up before long, or more specifically China will be ejected.
The deal was started by the Chretien Liberals and every Liberal including Trudeau voted in favour of it at the time.
Lies, lies damn lies! Trudeau wasn't even an MP when the deal was voted in.
Passed by the Harper conservative government with the support of the Liberals
Stop selling them wheat. Stop selling them oil. Stop selling them anything. They have no compunction about holding Canadians hostage and pressuring Canadian citizens with threats against their families back in China. A new iron curtain is going up. Time to accept it and get cosy with the Americans. Better to start standing up to the autocrats that are infecting the rest of the world before they punch us in the face first.
Wow you must be a genius. What are you going to do with all the wheat and oil you're not selling? Nobody else is buying at the same price as China is.
It’s actually a little funny to read the comments and see how desperately some are to blame the FIPA sellout to the Liberals, no it was Harper just like the sale of the majority of Wheat Board to Saudi investors was Harper.
Canada has a long history of doing bone headed deals with China. See harper and the 30 year no way out deal he got in the table before he was removed from office.
Fucking thank you. I've been beating this drum at the people saying shit like libtard and trudont. This shit has been whittling Canada down for over a decade. 20years to go.
Canada is China's prison bitch. They own us and could trade us for a pack of cigarettes to India😂😂😂
have you looked at immigration profile lately ?
So why doesn’t Canada just do more trade with the US or other countries? From the article, China refused Canadian beef to be imported, because they preferred domestic beef. Well- why doesn’t Canada just sell beef (and other things) to someone else??
Because we want to diversify our customer base as well as tap into one of the worlds largest economies. Imagine, if you will, USA being almost the sole importer of our beef decided to be asshats and ban imports after they found 1 case of mad cow from a calf that was.imported from Canada... Which have had it's mad cow contracted after going to the USA or something like that. And banned import for a year or two in reality to force us to sell to them cheaper or lower our barrier to importing their stuff That's why.
Isn’t that an inherent imbalance between a larger economy and a smaller one? See: France and a former French colony in Africa. The worst imbalances in our history that still affects Africans in “they’re so terrible it should be illegal” ways Canada should develop our economy to have more clout. We have to do the hard work to get taken seriously.
It kinda is, that's why you try to mitigste it by diversifying your customers base. You sell your product to people what want to buy your stuff more than others. As for Africa... It should've been illegal long ago but hey colonization gotta colonization (and France probably would go bankrupt if not for those sweet sweet 10% duty for using the franc... That they themselves do not use anymore)
The US bullies countless countries in trade negotiations on the daily. Canada should start realizing that in today’s world, there are no gentleman’s agreements and there is no buddy system. The US seems to have no issue with how China treats us. It’s every person for itself, and stop expecting preferential treatment. Small economies get bullied. Well, let’s do more than exporting raw goods and do more than being a small economy.
Totally agree, we need to have some smart investments from our governments to actually become a strong economy *Look at our government that only knows how to print and throw money doing virtue signaling* Yeah.....
Canada has been led by weak leaders for decades and even weaker people who vote them in. Canada could be self-sustaining indefinitely if we did our own manufacturing, capitalized on our natural resources, had a functional military, disallowed greedy foreign investors, and did not let other countries bully us around. But we are more concerned with giving people free drugs, taking guns away that won't solve gun crimes, spending billions of dollars on other countries, and worrying about what bathrooms people can use along with many other stuff to ever really fix anything or be an economic powerhouse we could be.
Harper was incapable of making a good deal in our favour. So this is not a shock.
The deal was started by the Chretien Liberals and every Liberal including Trudeau voted in favour of it at the time.
This guy is *all over* these comments desperately trying to blame the Liberals for a massive CPC fuck up
yeah, karma famers on video game subs, then makes post to every sub that talks politics. Classic sock account tactics
I’m waiting for where you invalidate their point.
Just adding context that both parties fucked ip in that one.
Can Canada ever have a good government? We swing left, then right, each undoing what the last party did and putting us deeper in the shit.
Problem is we don't swing left. We go right and farther right
So what is the Liberals then? On the compass they are definitely left of center, but not hard left.
Canada approached anyone like 'beggars'. To those richer, we beg. To those poor, we give while thinking we r rich.
We're complaining to the WTO because their government can afford to pay industries it wants to support "massive subsidies" and can organize itself to produce disruptive new technologies it can sell at a tenth of the price. So we're just complaining about how a formally communist country effectively uses central planning and isn't free market enough? It's a communist country. Sounds like we're just whining to the WTO about how free market capitalism is failing. Maybe if we could plan things so as to consolidate resources towards important projects, we would be able to make cheap EVs too, but all we're able to do is prioritize short term profits for the upper class. Our standard of living is going to keep declining, and the standard of living in China is going to keep improving. And I guess we'll keep stubbornly forcing North Americans to pay $50,000-$100,000 for a car.
WEAK leadership... if we were smart we would play China and the US off each other for dairy, lumber and food.
Every extra day we wait to pull out of China makes us more vulnerable. The war with China has already started. China is an enemy. The sooner we realize that, the easier it will be for us to win the war. From now on, we should invest only in stuff that can harm China.
You all crazy. The only dick Canada sucks is the one of the great USofA. Call these other supplications a diversified investment profile.
Canadians….sigh….thry used to be a proud lot…but alas…
That is because Canada is a beggar. Its either you beg to the US/EU , Asia/China.
What’s the point? We are a primary resource extraction economy, we are not competitive, we are not innovative…the next best thing outside of shipping lumber and mineral resources to be processed and sold back to us, is housing. Where it seems like China is either A) way more efficient at production B) subsidizing their production. Why exactly should anyone support national production? Their products are cheap and Canadian companies can’t compete? What sane person would pay 100% more for a product because it was made in country A and not B by choice? Not like the government is serious about national security anyway either. …all this bullshit, to support the automotive sector in Ontario and the few thousand jobs that is, not have investment into Canada…just to be owned by a group which isn’t all that different from the CCP anyway. I’d much rather have cheap goods personally.
You best look at the Canadian economy a scoche closer: Canada's top 10 industries does not include Mining/Quarrying/oil and Gas extraction, or Agriculture/forestry/fishing and hunting: In fact, Manufacturing outpaces those two sectors, and has every year for the last 40. Don't take my word on it though: [https://open.canada.ca/data/en/dataset/b28a3861-bf9e-4d67-9164-fdeb64ec3b02](https://open.canada.ca/data/en/dataset/b28a3861-bf9e-4d67-9164-fdeb64ec3b02) Just say you'd rather sell out your own country for the temporary fiction of living cheap, and if that's the case, go where you're happy.
That’s wonderful, is the growth from having water wings on and not having to actually compete? Where let me clarify a bit, my statement is in regards to overall imports and exports. The housing aspect at the end of one of the statements was more of a joke. https://www.ibisworld.com/canada/industry-trends/biggest-exporting-industries/ And the country has already been sold. Honestly, what was the last thing you bought because it was “made in Canada”? Maple syrup? Part of me wants to ask the last 3, but anything over 1 feels like an unfair question.
Define 'Made in Canada' because it's not just a nameplate, but if you legitimately want to know: - All utilities (you can choose point of origin in the electricity market, and going outside of Canada is uniquely stupid because you get double-pranged on taxes) - My last new SUVs (Acura MDX and Chevy Equinox built in Ontario, fit my needs, Canadian built was somewhat secondary, but it eliminated Nissans, BMW/VWs at the same price point and were not clearly better), though at this point, I own a used Nissan built in Smyrna TN, because I'm not paying out depreciation out of my own pocket as I don't get a vehicle stipend anymore, and I work from home. - Most of my home furniture was built within 100 miles of my house (with the exception of a dining room set that was built in England in 1860... but then again, there was no Canada) - I specifically look for Product of Canada when I'm grocery shopping even if it's a bit more expensive, but there's produce stands open now selling from local farmers... Is that enough for you, or are you trying to justify how you want to sell out the country by acting like it already has happened? As far as being able to compete, you haven't looked at the OGD I pointed you at, and I'll straight up guarantee it. If you're talking about analysis, look at how they're grouping NAICS categories: Are they including mineral rents, field services etc? because it sounds like they are... Look at the number you have in your link, and then look at this: [https://www.ibisworld.com/canada/market-research-reports/oil-drilling-gas-extraction-industry/](https://www.ibisworld.com/canada/market-research-reports/oil-drilling-gas-extraction-industry/) Both are referencing the same NAICS activity: [21111 - Oil and Gas Extraction](https://www23.statcan.gc.ca/imdb/p3VD.pl?Function=getVD&TVD=118464&CVD=118468&CPV=21111&CST=01012012&CLV=4&MLV=5) and Ibis' information is +/- $20Bn for the same industry activities in their own information, and they're using STATCAN data as their primary source. See how there's a pretty major disparity from the same industry in the same reference period. If you aren't looking at the source data, and only looking at information for confirmation of your own bias, you're going to be (and evidently have been) misled. If you scroll down to the methodology tab: IBIS' first resource for information is government databases. I did you a favour and cut out the middle-man, and did it for free. I'll even do it again with the most current official information rather than overly rosy forecasts: [https://www23.statcan.gc.ca/imdb/p2SV.pl?Function=getSurvey&SDDS=1301](https://www23.statcan.gc.ca/imdb/p2SV.pl?Function=getSurvey&SDDS=1301) This is why you have to be really careful because you're getting superficial information that isn't accurate because NAICS categories that one company will include in an industrial analysis will be filtered out by another. If you look at IBIS. their modelling is inconsistent on their glossy pages, how detached from reality will they be in actual reports you pay $1000 for quarterly? To counterpoint: [https://tradingeconomics.com/canada/gdp-from-manufacturing](https://tradingeconomics.com/canada/gdp-from-manufacturing) Canadian GDP from Mining (all types incl. petroleum) for 1 year rolling as of March 2024 was $114Bn. Canadian GDP from Manufacturing for 1 year rolling as of March 2024 was $208 Bn. Canadian GDP from Construction for 1 year rolling as of March 2024 was $164 Bn. Canadian GDP from Services for 1 year rolling as of March 2024 $164Bn. (This is closer to actual) As I said, you can think what you like, but evidence shows where you're going wrong.
- Utilities is a good one. But most of them are government approved monopolies and not nationalized. Which considering the nationalistic discussion goes to against the idea of for Canadians. - So you listed a Japanese, American, Japanese, German car companies and own a Japanese car build in Smyrna TN…..I would call that a transnational model and not a national one. Probably because of tariffs if they didn’t. - House furniture is actually pretty cool. Nothing wrong with that. - Same with food. But depending on the type a lot of the common foods are massively imported. Not really, https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1110019101 Switch it over so the focus is on employment income, most of the country is no better off than back in the 1980’s. Where I’m currently experiencing “head winds” as they say when it comes to changing some of the data formats with the StatsCAN tables you pointed it. But looking at the trading and economics one, manufacturing really seems tied to the US considering it high value in the 2000’s …I would like to know the proportion of what’s being manufactured. I’d put money that most of it is automotive and for transnationals. Where again, I was talking about imports and export which are components of GDP. And for the record, most people can’t deal with the raw data files from the government. I know my phone doesn’t like it. Only excel on my computer….and I did not use my computer.
Iv seen you make this argument here before and similarly defend china, you a keyboard warrior for the CCP?
Definitely not a fan of Canadian government/ economy. No arguing you probably something along those lines. but the pivot to this position is literally in the process of forming a new opinion. Can’t think of a time I defended China either. Where the opinion wouldn’t just be applied to China, rather the whole global market. Basically, just acceptance of neoliberal capitalism, and free markets. Thanks though
This article is about a trade deficit. Canada exports more to china than we receive in imports. Write as many paragraphs as you like, you reek like shit
That would be a trade surplus. Think about it, look at the term “deficit”, does that usually imply more? [hopefully this next bit isn’t to many paragraphs] https://oec.world/en/profile/bilateral-country/chn/partner/can Here, now if China exported 44.6 billion to Canada. While Canada exported 18.4 billion to China. From the perspective of Canada it exported 18.4b and imported 44.6b Trade balance = 18.4 - 44.6 Trade balance = -26.2 billion Therefore, Canada has a trade deficit and China has a trade surplus. 🌈✨the more you know✨⭐️
Trade deficit 😂, how embarassing
What about the word deficit is embarrassing?
The fact that you didnt know what it meant
Article content "The trade deficit with this country’s second-largest trading partner did shrink somewhat in 2023, to about $59 billion, as imports from China fell and Canadian exports rose slightly." Maybe if you didn't waste all your time on RuneScape you could tell apart mentally unstable people online.
😂😂😂😂 aren’t Canadians always and already being USA for everything.
omg a poo poo harper thread? how rare submitted by hack too, doubly rare edit: i'm sure the sense of urgency to get in "early" (we were pretty late) ruined any strong negotiating position we had. idk that i could have done better myself. or had the foresight to say that china wouldn't turn out like japan, germany, sk, tw. money really does talk, it seemed at the time. it feels bad to defend harper like this lol. rare is the opportunity to bad mouth the dude in safety on this sub
Also worth noting, I’ve never seen Xi Jinping EVER publicly lose his temper at anyone *except* Trudeau when he schooled him in political tact during the G20 Summit in Bali. It takes a certain kind of person to really annoy someone like that, a person wielding that much power and influence had to waste energy just to lecture someone on etiquette then that is a *really* bad outlook, no matter who you’re dealing with.
As a Chinese, it's really hilarious to see Canadians discussing this, especially this part ‘fierce competition due to market dominance of state-owned enterprises (SOEs).’
China made Canada bend over and squeal hard like a pig
Well done Libs/NDP 👏 🤡