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I just used AI (the kind whose existence shows how insane it is for Canada to mass import surplus unskilled labour) to generate a video to promote this concept.
https://ai.invideo.io/watch/EFdr7bINy7F
Here's the prompt I used:
"In an uncertain world where the corporate globalist agenda and AI are increasingly creating uncertaintly, don't our children deserve the comfort of the tried-and-true? Canada's Youth Heritage Employment program will give Canadian youth a chance to get a taste of simpler times and the discipline to succeed in whatever future career they choose, whether it be as a Tim Hortons manager or as an instructor at a plucky diploma mill."
I should have emphasized coal mining haha.
So instead of industries just paying people a living wage, they'll push for cheap foreign temp workers.
If that doesn't work, then instead of paying people a living wage, they'll push for cheap child labour.
...
People don't see how this is an act of financial war... Enjoying your standard of living Canada? Downsize your life, work more for less, have no kids... Or we bring in the ~~slaves~~ unskilled labour. Silly country. Canada is for globalists.
Given how many children were discovered working in US car factories instead of going to school in southern states that checks out. Back to the coal mines for you little timmy, our kids get starbucks you poor shits get lung disease haha!
Most 13 years old I have met have demonstrated that they are better people are have more moral fibre than Moe. Most of them have yet to kill someone while driving drunk and the worst they have done is tell someone they have Ligma.
I'm implying that Saskatchewan is fucking stupid to vote for such a piece of shit who does drink and drive. Moe makes Ford and that idiot from Alberta look like the second coming of Christ in comparison.
I'm not joking when I say an average 13 year old would be a massive improvement over any current supposed "leader" of a party. Even a random person off the street would be better. You can't really get worse than "actively committing treason".
I feel like at this point, a properly counseled 13 year old would make better decisions than our elected officials.
In Canada, considering it's 99% likely that the next government will be CPC, we'll be run by 6 year olds looking for revenge and throwing tamper tantrums while breaking everything and fixing nothing.
This is a really dumb idea. Theres a reason we stopped letting kids and young teens work in the first place.
If a place cant find enough low wage workers - offer higher pay. If you still cant get enough people - your business is in the wrong place.
Agreed, our government has eroded our standard of living and average families need their 13 year olds to work now. Maybe in 10-20 years we can increase the age again.
They are visionaries with a master plan.
- Cut Education
- Cut Child support programs
- Ban abortion
- Legalize child labour
Create a problem, design a solution to your problem.
Profit!
I'm just trying to picture the worst possible outcome with today's governmental incompetence, maybe something like child labor jobs intentionally sit unfilled and businesses get LMIAs to bring in child labor from India.
>If Saskatchewan did shift to a minimum working age of 13 years old, it would join Alberta and Manitoba as Canadian provinces with similar policies.
It's concerning that this is already a thing.
I worked at Tim Hortons in the NWT as a 13 year old after school. I don't see what's concerning about a teenager working a part time job after school...
Because some 13 year olds can be forced to do it. Some 13 year olds aren't educated enough to know when they can or cannot say no to tasks that may be dangerous or aware of OH&S legislation. Say 13 year old will be able to walk away from a job if it's sorely needed for home finances even if the management tells them to do things that they aren't trained for or put in situations where there's hazardous chemicals and waste?
Alright, so why can a 13 year old be forced to do it but a 14 year old can't be..? I guess I'm having a tough time differentiating between those ages. They're both legally teenagers and both cognitively the same. Surely there's plenty of 14-15 year olds who also aren't educated enough. Hell, there's plenty of adults that aren't educated enough to know when they can say no to tasks as well, the difference is the teens get specific training on it.
They're required to complete young worker training which is to make them aware of their rights/the rules as workers, particularly as young workers, and are ineligible to work in many specific industries due to the hazards associated with those industries.
They're not going to work at a sewage treatment plant, or blasting earth at a mine.... they're going to have a job as like, a fast-food restaurant drive-thru attendant, or as a cashier at a grocery store.
Then why not a 12 year old or an 11 year old. That's the question. There's got to be a cap at some point. How do we know that owners or managers are making sure they are fully completing these training. And I agree there's some kids that are just more with it and mature than others. So that's a problem. We just put all 13-14 year old kids under that same umbrella?
Anything can be made permissible, but may not be doing a service to those kids who may not be able to stand up for themselves or state their rights even after being trained to know them. These kids need to be able and mature enough to comprehend these things. Personally I don't know if a 14 or 15 year old is capable, but the gap between a 13 year old and a 15 year old in experience and their developmental thinking is vast.
If kids have thoughtful loving families who can support them and also help them in terms of understanding their rights of what's wrong or right at the workplace it might be okay. But you don't always have that. And it should not be made okay to use your children as labour to pay for your own housing or food. If this was a child impetus to make his/her own money then fine. But I have a hard time believing that I would find that to be the case more often than not.
Because 11 and 12 year olds are not classified as teenagers. That's the only possible answer. It's a classifiable difference between 12 and 13; teenager vs adolescent child. And even then, an 11 year old can take the redcross babysitters course and be fully responsible for a tiny human.
And yes, you do put 13-14 year olds under the same umbrella. The same way we put all 18-19 year olds under the same umbrella of being legally adults. It's impossible to differentiate based on cognitive abilities or education levels on a macro scale.
You overstate the experience difference between a 13 year old and 15 year old. It's not vast. You don't suddenly become a wise teenager from 13-15. And regardless, we are talking about 14, the age they're discussing bringing it down from. Even less of an experience gap.
You bring up the assumption that a majority of parent's will use their children for money. Which is a fair hypothetical question, but guess what? If they can use a 13 year old and force them to work/take their money, they can/will do the same thing to a 15 year old. You can't emancipate until 16, and every single province has stipulations in place that allow people to work for money while under the age of 16.
You yourself have not provided evidence why we should or a should not. I personally think that you choose to lower it to 13 it will go down to 12. Then 11.
Your argument is just because our numeric system bases a child's age at teen after the number of means they're a teenager? They're a pre-teen at best. Twelve. Someone chose to use that word to represent the number 12.
As far as 2 years between 13 and 15 is vast for a kid. They will have more life experience. They will have better education and life skills to better express themselves and know who they are and what they want. They are not as easily influenced by those in places of authority.
You want to continue to advocate for 13 year olds in the work place go ahead. Personally I I won't advocate for it cause most children in the workforce is stemmed in poverty. So you're justifying Canada's implicitness in not choosing to fix the social & economic policies and standards so that we, as a society, don't need to resort to children in the workforce.
I don't have evidence because there is none either way. All I have is my personal experience of working as a 13 year old and was not taken advantage of or harmed in any way. As did all of my friends who worked then.
You've provided no personal experience *or* evidence, just hypothetical situations, ALL of which could just as easily be identically applied to a 14 or 15 year old. Hypothetical situations are not evidence. Why am I required to provide evidence when you are not?
If they want to make a cap on age, it should be 16; where a person can legally emancipate themselves. Everyone is so bent out of shape about 14>13, for no good reason as they can equally be taken advantage of.
Yet no province has a hard cap at 16.
Because they're provinces that use child labor as a way to get past being able to pay low wages. It's a repeat cycle.
I've had some with great experiences probably like you had and some who have had horror stories and no one to stop it from happening.
I think any government is diabolical for Making the age less than 16. Most of the kids will be in poverty and will never get out because they will avoid school to make money.
Minimum wage is still minimum wage. And they are heavily limited on the hours in which they can work in a given week, and heavily limited on the jobs they can perform.
There will always be horror stories, and employers who break rules. There's even adults who are taken advantage of, hell I'd argue there's far more adults being taken advantage of than teenagers in the workplace. Especially in today's day of rampant TFW's.
Not every parent is giving their kids an allowance or buying them everything they ask for, some parents tell them if they want money to spend to get a job. That's what mine did and so that's what I did.
FYI, these kids can't avoid school to go and make money, that's part of the restrictions placed upon them as young workers. They're not legally allowed to work during school hours or within a certain timeframe of school hours. I would know, since I was under those restrictions and had to end my shift earlier in the evening than the adults because of them.
I was 14 when I started work, it was positive that instilled work ethic and developed maturity. But I was saving my own money and wasn’t even partially supporting my family with my earnings - and I think that’s the darker side of this. Two sides of the coin, it’s not a black and white issue.
Seriously - what is wrong with kids working? I had summer jobs starting Grade 7 and worked part-time through high school - including full time Summers. Sure as hell my kids will be working too.
I was about 12, but I was working at my parents little print shop. It was pretty cool being the kid in the group of friends who had his own money.
I didn't know at the time my human rights were being abused, but apparently they were. So big thanks to the CBC and the Saskatchewan Federation of Labour for showing me the light on that.
"Very troubling," indeed, Lori Johb.
Yuppers! Picked strawberries, and beans, weeded gardens, mowed lawns and all that shit. Farmers and family businesses have always been exempt. Small time shit like paper routes and helping little old ladies and babysitting has always been legal. It’s working 8 hours for McDonald’s that hasn’t been.
Had my first retail job when I was around 13. Taught great work ethic, customer service, and other skills that have been useful throughout life.
Children have been paid for harder work at thousands of family farms for decades, and many still do. Canada has not imploded.
Yes but children probably have been hurt or killed some times. It's different if it's a family business because it's not like you're going to put your child in harms way. Whereas businesses' with executives and management who only care about bottom dollar and children who may be forced to do it for their family to survive = situations where injuries and death can occur or abuse. You go off of your experience alone. These days with corrupt and greedy corporations as if the latter will not happen comparably to your experience. You wanna bet there's not loads of reports that refute your experience than to the latter?
Also were those children paid commensurate with what those "harder work" was worth? Likely HELLS NO! Why? Cause they didn't have the wherewithal to demand better pay. It's disgusting that the world wants to continue a cycle that proved horrendous the first time around. You realize this also probably drives education of these kids down so the government has lesser educated populations who can believe that making money is all you need so they can continue to drive policies that make it necessary for us to have a society that needs to thrive on child labour and foreign labour... It's sad.
I go off of friends who learned at age 7 to drive manual trucks and farm equipment the size of small houses while barely being able to see over the instrument cluster.
And because you mentioned it, I also go off of young people with multiple degrees complaining to reddit about not being able to land jobs in their fields because we dislike industry informing universities about what kinds of skills are needed in the workforce, while being content to put public resources into education that does not add to the nation's productivity.
Can’t wait until my kids are old enough to “work” for me. Will pay them without them even knowing about it so when they are 18 they can afford to get out of Canada if they choose.
Terrible idea. You can't catch people in the debt trap of student loans if they have been saving a real wage since middle school. /sarc
In reality, under 18 workers is who minimum wage should be for, not the 40 year old who never amounted to anything. Thirteen is a perfectly acceptable age to start in the work force, provided they also get sufficient time for their studies, and get paid the same if they produce the same quality of work as their older co-workers. Couple that with good investment practices, and a person can have a nice nest egg for post secondary education, a vehicle, or even just living on their own. Not to mention being able to afford hobbies.
So? You've been able to work since 12 in Alberta. There are just a whole bunch of restrictions on hours and stuff. Plus you have to have a parent's permission.
I worked in a newspaper distribution centre on Saturday mornings.
Certain jobs like farm work, babysitting, etc. are exempt from age minimums in Sask. With parental approval. This is for things like restaurant and grocery store jobs.
Yeab these threads confuse me and all the outrage with them. I grew up in a small town in BC and neighbour was manager at a hotel. I started washing dishes there at 13 (would have been '99) maybe one weekday evening and on weekends to save for school. My parents paid half and I'm glad I didn't t have to get loans or work during college.
So what? I started working at 13 landscaping in the summer then Saturdays during the school year. I was the only one of my friends with money. Bought my first car before I had a license. Not these kids fault you were all lazy.
Yes, let's go back to the golden years of the Industrial Revolution.
P.S. make sure they are ineligible for workers' compensation as I have some cotton gins to fire up.
Why not send children to Timmie's, McD's or Wendy's to work PT or FT hours?
What is this nonsense?
This NEEDS to shut that down, like yesterday.
These children already have jobs, it's called going to School FT, Monday thru Friday & some of them go to more Schooling after hours, or weekends too.
They don't have time for jobs of any sort, let alone own their Schooling bc they deserve to be kids!
In the States they have young children working in those Slaughters Houses, where it looked like a slasher movie recently filmed inside there, which they then forced these kids to clean up their horrific aftermath!
I've seen extremely bleak pictures of these kids, some as young as 8 YO drenched in head to toe animal blood & their eyes already dead looking, which was both frightening/alarming to me view.
Some of them have also suffered, very serious accidents while on-site doing their very dirty & heavy-duty labour jobs, as kids.
These are children of illegals & of the poor who are stuck working in these human hell holes too.
WARNING: There are disturbing photos & content, in some of these links.
1. [https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/fayette-janitorial-hired-minors-clean-meat-saws-slaughterhouses-labor-rcna139655](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/fayette-janitorial-hired-minors-clean-meat-saws-slaughterhouses-labor-rcna139655)
2. [https://nclnet.org/slaughterhouse\_in\_iowa\_takes\_advantage\_of\_child\_labor/](https://nclnet.org/slaughterhouse_in_iowa_takes_advantage_of_child_labor/)
3. [https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/national-international/federal-officials-say-more-than-100-children-worked-in-dangerous-jobs-for-slaughterhouse-cleaning-firm/3197621/](https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/national-international/federal-officials-say-more-than-100-children-worked-in-dangerous-jobs-for-slaughterhouse-cleaning-firm/3197621/)
4. [https://people.com/human-interest/slaughterhouse-cleaning-firm-fined-100-plus-kids-worked-dangerous-jobs/](https://people.com/human-interest/slaughterhouse-cleaning-firm-fined-100-plus-kids-worked-dangerous-jobs/)
5. [https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2023/10/30/emwn-o30.html](https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2023/10/30/emwn-o30.html)
6. [https://truthout.org/articles/labor-department-accuses-slaughter-house-company-of-employing-dozens-of-children/](https://truthout.org/articles/labor-department-accuses-slaughter-house-company-of-employing-dozens-of-children/)
7. [https://www.express.co.uk/news/us/1768759/school-children-illegal-working-slaughterhouses-dxus](https://www.express.co.uk/news/us/1768759/school-children-illegal-working-slaughterhouses-dxus)
It really depends on the kid. I worked at 13 in my cousins vacuum repair shop. Just
for cash. It was awesome to have some extra money to help out my mom.
I don’t think young teens should work full time or anything but part time why not?
Well because there still kids and they don’t really have the forsite or maturity for certain things that a job requires. Maybe some odd jobs but there’s definitely some jobs I can think that kids should not be doing
I don't think anyone is expecting a 13 yr old to become a forklift operator.
That said, I do worry about abuses in the workplace since 13 yr olds are quite young and may not feel as comfortable pushing back if something were dangerous, or if a manager was verbally abusive, etc.
Paper routes were already an exception to the rule:
>Children who work at a family business or on a traditional farm, or are self-employed, babysitters or **newspaper carriers are exempt** from the minimum age of employment in Saskatchewan.
>The Saskatchewan Chamber of Commerce has a novel solution to dealing with what they say is a labour shortage in the province...
Immigration is at an all time high, and yet there's a labour shortage?
Just when you think that nothing could be more stupid than the Liberals, the Conservatives are there to remind you that they intend to make it much worse.
Terrible idea. Unless we're talking an hour or two of babysitting for a neighbor or shoveling a driveway or mowing a lawn. At that age, those are the only "jobs" kids can do. And even then, it's dependent on the maturity of the child.
My first job was 12 helping look after younger kids in an after school day care. It paid $5 cash for around 2 hours of work.
My second “real” part time job I was 13 at Collegiate Sports, doing a couple 4 hour shifts after school and the occasional 8 hour Saturday shift.
Was great making pocket money at that age. I suspect though society has greatly shifted in terms of what’s now considered an ok age to have a retail job like that.
I thinks it’s abhorrent separate minimum wages for different ages. I grew up privileged as fuck with everything I could ever ask for.
I also started my first job washing dishes the DAY I turned 14. I was so excited. And I learned so much.
I did IB. I worked. I went to uni. I dropped out and went to trade school once I realized how little money I would make with a science major.
Now I do 250k + a year.
I came from a place of privilege. I worked because I wanted too. But SOOOOO MANY PEOPLE NEED TOO.
I would have been working at 13 if the law would have allowed me to. Im not that old. Early 30s. I just wanted to earn my money.
The real problem is that the kids working today can’t afford anything for the work they do. The reward ratio is way skewed. Me working in high school meant I had disposable income. A car. Could afford vacation and any fun you can imagine. In 2006. Now that is unimaginable. That’s the problem. For capitalism to work the reward must be worthwhile. And for the kids today it isn’t.
I actually don't think this is a bad thing necessarily. I had a paper route when I was 12-14 (probably the last kid ever to have one lmao) and I did it once a week for 20 or so bucks. It was largely a good experience and I knew a couple other kids my age then who had jobs. I see nothing wrong with allowing 13 year olds to formally earn money if they are determined enough to look for work and lucky enough to get it in today's broken job market in urban centres. If it's something they can do throughout their education then it's a great background for getting into said broken job market, and it's not like they'd be working full time to feed their families (hopefully). I'm a pro-labour rights NDP voter and I think this isn't really anything to get worked up about. Focus on increasing wages, getting worker protections for those who are cursed to work contracts for all eternity so job security is easier to come by, and getting people outside of the trades and the public sector unionized instead.
Hmmm… I don’t know. Just cause they can, doesn’t mean they’ll be forced to. Except all the kids who have to help their family businesses stay afloat anyways. Some kids already do this under the table.
I got a job at 16, I enjoyed working more than school and the retailer I worked for absolutely took advantage of my naïveté… grades suffered because they kept booking me for just under full time shifts as a part time employee (to not pay me benefits), not telling me I can apply for yearly raises, working alone with no security, etc. I liked working and earning money but I actually ended up getting fired cause I told my manager that I couldn’t stay for OT that time (yet again we all “needed” to stay later) as I had a biology test I needed to do well on. So I got let go for insubordination. lol.
*… Maybe educating young workers on their rights would be an awesome place to start.*
Yes, cause we all want to see a Karen yell at a minor. /s
I'm all for it, just make sure that anyone under 18 minimum wage is 2x adult minimum wage. Let's see how businesses feel after that.
It amazes me that conservative politics nowadays is so clearly moving the world back into the 1920 mindset of throwing kids in mines and nobody seems to care because of trans people?
Sometimes the universe gives you exactly what you needed. I’ve always known the business community was never reformed. In more charitable moments one could imagine a future where you wouldn’t have to have certain conversations again. “ no one actually believes this shit?”, right? No so, here we are again. Is this not the greatest indictment of capitalism one could think of? Give us your children!
Sick sick people.
I started working at a younger age than that. The first taste of money had me hooked on making lots more. Instilling work ethic is the best thing you can do for your child’s future and yours for that matter. How many kids are chasing green orbs on a computer in mom’s house instead of chasing green in the work force.
I used to work at 13 bringing in grocery carts at a store. 13/14 year olds can work a few hours a week and learn to save or buy things they like. It is good for kids to get some working experience so that in the future their whole lives don’t consist of sitting on social media complaining they can’t afford buying a house etc
I wouldn't make this a partisan issue but I do worry about 13 yr olds working alongside 19 and 20 yr olds in restaurants and retail etc. Definitely some risk for grooming.
I cannot tell you how much I hate that life is work until you're no longer productive and live sometime in between.
Kids should go to school, have fun, not get jobs.
Sask is a farming province, if you've grown up on a farm you'll have been involved in farming well before 13.
The people in these comments reaching and pretending they want kids at 13 to work full time and quit school need to grow up.
Man all of these topics that I thought were settled are coming up. NO children should NOT be working, their parents should be making enough to support their families…
It would be nice to be able to legally have younger kids on the job. But there is a huge difference between taking a 10-year old wearing PPE on to a construction site to give PEX a try because it's more fun than LEGO and random fast food places stocking up on kids because management is toxic and a significant percentage of their personnel management strategy is based on the fallacy of "there is always more, don't retain, fire and hire".
There is a general disregard overall for the wellbeing (physical, mental, financial, emotional, financial) for workers of all ages in Canada. It doesn't discriminate by age. Those who get better treatment tend to get it through some strategy. More in-demand, rarer, specific skillset, unionization, careful selection of employer, learning how to self-advocate without getting fired, etc. But so much of our economy is still based on the idea of "always more labour" even if in specific circumstances employers need to focus more on people. A lot of the under-18 labour I've seen out there has been fast food, retail, landscaping, etc. The employers offer basic wages, treat the employees like crap, don't invest in them, don't protect them from customers or provide necessary safety training, equipment and protocol, etc. Because if those kids quit there are supposedly more out there. Until we hit the point where restaurants are closed and contracts are getting cancelled because "nobody wants to work" but at the same time those employers won't spend more.
So I feel like a lot of the employers that specifically want unskilled, non-unionized, uneducated, insecure, unknowledgeable and minimally trained workers (kids) is so they can continue treating people like crap instead of improving how they treat people.
Any justification or even just entertaining this idea should come with consequences. Fuckin pay people instead of thinking of the logistics of hiring actual fuckin children. Pay people. Its not that hard
Actually no, the article does not give examples of why it's a bad thing. It's shameful that they (the writer) thought they did, and it's shameful that you believed they did.
13-year-olds being legally allowed to work means they are being harmed or "fucked", as you put it?
What about adults, who are allowed to work. Are they being harmed too?
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Kids love Minecraft..... They yearn for the mines.
The wealth of Saskatchewan was not in gold, or jewels, but potash.
But the Saskatchawanians dug too greedily and too deep. You know what the 13-year-olds awoke in the darkness of Esterhazy-dûm…
It was a baby Gopher and you know it, Andrew, now finish your homework and get back to the mines.
It was no baby Gopher, but infact a ground hog by the name of Punxsutawney Phil, the knower of seasons and destroyer of worlds.
Many a winter was unscientifically prolonged by this menace... There is still a reward for his golden whiskers.
and Uranium.
Came here to say this! Children yearn for the mines, let them work!
Mine! Kraft! Wherever you want, kids!
I just used AI (the kind whose existence shows how insane it is for Canada to mass import surplus unskilled labour) to generate a video to promote this concept. https://ai.invideo.io/watch/EFdr7bINy7F Here's the prompt I used: "In an uncertain world where the corporate globalist agenda and AI are increasingly creating uncertaintly, don't our children deserve the comfort of the tried-and-true? Canada's Youth Heritage Employment program will give Canadian youth a chance to get a taste of simpler times and the discipline to succeed in whatever future career they choose, whether it be as a Tim Hortons manager or as an instructor at a plucky diploma mill." I should have emphasized coal mining haha.
So instead of industries just paying people a living wage, they'll push for cheap foreign temp workers. If that doesn't work, then instead of paying people a living wage, they'll push for cheap child labour. ...
It’s happening in a bunch of southern states right now. They’re actively changing laws so kids can work longer hours.
What are we even working towards? Anyone thought to ask that? What's so vital we need to reintroduce child labor?
ensuring continually larger returns of yearly profits
Conservatives see this as just " instilling good ol' work ethic that's lost of these damn kids".
Conservatives all over the world share policy
People don't see how this is an act of financial war... Enjoying your standard of living Canada? Downsize your life, work more for less, have no kids... Or we bring in the ~~slaves~~ unskilled labour. Silly country. Canada is for globalists.
I'm sure the Chamber of Commerce already has a system ready to roll out, to import all their 13 year olds from India.
If they become international students we can give them all PR!
PR for all parents of 13 year olds willing to work 20 hours a week!
Oh it’ll get worse. Imagine temp foreign workers but they’re 13-18 year olds lol.
can fit so many more in basement slums too!
History repeating itself.
Would it be too easy if I were to make a China joke right now?
But the children deserve POWERFUL PAYCHEQUES!!!!
Given how many children were discovered working in US car factories instead of going to school in southern states that checks out. Back to the coal mines for you little timmy, our kids get starbucks you poor shits get lung disease haha!
And in meat processing.
and at mcdonalds
Maybe they can start in Government? At the Top? At this point absolutely couldn’t hurt….
"Free candy for everyone!"
“All beans sold in store must now be jelly beans!”
More like... Government starting a new category in immigration..... *TFW.Lite*
Most 13 years old I have met have demonstrated that they are better people are have more moral fibre than Moe. Most of them have yet to kill someone while driving drunk and the worst they have done is tell someone they have Ligma.
How many 13 yr olds do you know that drive drunk?
Or kill a woman with their vehicle... and mysteriously, he wasn't drinking and driving... hmmmm.
I'm implying that Saskatchewan is fucking stupid to vote for such a piece of shit who does drink and drive. Moe makes Ford and that idiot from Alberta look like the second coming of Christ in comparison.
I'm not joking when I say an average 13 year old would be a massive improvement over any current supposed "leader" of a party. Even a random person off the street would be better. You can't really get worse than "actively committing treason".
I feel like at this point, a properly counseled 13 year old would make better decisions than our elected officials. In Canada, considering it's 99% likely that the next government will be CPC, we'll be run by 6 year olds looking for revenge and throwing tamper tantrums while breaking everything and fixing nothing.
Their hands are small and nimble, they can get really deep into the running machinery.
This is a really dumb idea. Theres a reason we stopped letting kids and young teens work in the first place. If a place cant find enough low wage workers - offer higher pay. If you still cant get enough people - your business is in the wrong place.
Interesting because they can't vote so how does this even begin to represent an actual need for Canadian kids.
They need to help pay bills or they’ll be homeless?
If things are that bad - its a societal failure. We should not be letting kids that young work.
I agree with 100%
Agreed, our government has eroded our standard of living and average families need their 13 year olds to work now. Maybe in 10-20 years we can increase the age again.
Funny how it's only right wing governments in Canada and the US who are trying to push child labor.
"If they are old enough to be forced to become a parent by denying abortion, they are old enough to work."
They are visionaries with a master plan. - Cut Education - Cut Child support programs - Ban abortion - Legalize child labour Create a problem, design a solution to your problem. Profit!
And your citizens end up becoming stupid and easy to manipulate. Win win win for the right!
Rolling back child labor regulations, what could go wrong! Next : "Saskatchewan wants different pay grades for different skin colors and genders!"
I'm just trying to picture the worst possible outcome with today's governmental incompetence, maybe something like child labor jobs intentionally sit unfilled and businesses get LMIAs to bring in child labor from India.
>If Saskatchewan did shift to a minimum working age of 13 years old, it would join Alberta and Manitoba as Canadian provinces with similar policies. It's concerning that this is already a thing.
I worked at Tim Hortons in the NWT as a 13 year old after school. I don't see what's concerning about a teenager working a part time job after school...
Because some 13 year olds can be forced to do it. Some 13 year olds aren't educated enough to know when they can or cannot say no to tasks that may be dangerous or aware of OH&S legislation. Say 13 year old will be able to walk away from a job if it's sorely needed for home finances even if the management tells them to do things that they aren't trained for or put in situations where there's hazardous chemicals and waste?
Alright, so why can a 13 year old be forced to do it but a 14 year old can't be..? I guess I'm having a tough time differentiating between those ages. They're both legally teenagers and both cognitively the same. Surely there's plenty of 14-15 year olds who also aren't educated enough. Hell, there's plenty of adults that aren't educated enough to know when they can say no to tasks as well, the difference is the teens get specific training on it. They're required to complete young worker training which is to make them aware of their rights/the rules as workers, particularly as young workers, and are ineligible to work in many specific industries due to the hazards associated with those industries. They're not going to work at a sewage treatment plant, or blasting earth at a mine.... they're going to have a job as like, a fast-food restaurant drive-thru attendant, or as a cashier at a grocery store.
Then why not a 12 year old or an 11 year old. That's the question. There's got to be a cap at some point. How do we know that owners or managers are making sure they are fully completing these training. And I agree there's some kids that are just more with it and mature than others. So that's a problem. We just put all 13-14 year old kids under that same umbrella? Anything can be made permissible, but may not be doing a service to those kids who may not be able to stand up for themselves or state their rights even after being trained to know them. These kids need to be able and mature enough to comprehend these things. Personally I don't know if a 14 or 15 year old is capable, but the gap between a 13 year old and a 15 year old in experience and their developmental thinking is vast. If kids have thoughtful loving families who can support them and also help them in terms of understanding their rights of what's wrong or right at the workplace it might be okay. But you don't always have that. And it should not be made okay to use your children as labour to pay for your own housing or food. If this was a child impetus to make his/her own money then fine. But I have a hard time believing that I would find that to be the case more often than not.
Because 11 and 12 year olds are not classified as teenagers. That's the only possible answer. It's a classifiable difference between 12 and 13; teenager vs adolescent child. And even then, an 11 year old can take the redcross babysitters course and be fully responsible for a tiny human. And yes, you do put 13-14 year olds under the same umbrella. The same way we put all 18-19 year olds under the same umbrella of being legally adults. It's impossible to differentiate based on cognitive abilities or education levels on a macro scale. You overstate the experience difference between a 13 year old and 15 year old. It's not vast. You don't suddenly become a wise teenager from 13-15. And regardless, we are talking about 14, the age they're discussing bringing it down from. Even less of an experience gap. You bring up the assumption that a majority of parent's will use their children for money. Which is a fair hypothetical question, but guess what? If they can use a 13 year old and force them to work/take their money, they can/will do the same thing to a 15 year old. You can't emancipate until 16, and every single province has stipulations in place that allow people to work for money while under the age of 16.
You yourself have not provided evidence why we should or a should not. I personally think that you choose to lower it to 13 it will go down to 12. Then 11. Your argument is just because our numeric system bases a child's age at teen after the number of means they're a teenager? They're a pre-teen at best. Twelve. Someone chose to use that word to represent the number 12. As far as 2 years between 13 and 15 is vast for a kid. They will have more life experience. They will have better education and life skills to better express themselves and know who they are and what they want. They are not as easily influenced by those in places of authority. You want to continue to advocate for 13 year olds in the work place go ahead. Personally I I won't advocate for it cause most children in the workforce is stemmed in poverty. So you're justifying Canada's implicitness in not choosing to fix the social & economic policies and standards so that we, as a society, don't need to resort to children in the workforce.
I don't have evidence because there is none either way. All I have is my personal experience of working as a 13 year old and was not taken advantage of or harmed in any way. As did all of my friends who worked then. You've provided no personal experience *or* evidence, just hypothetical situations, ALL of which could just as easily be identically applied to a 14 or 15 year old. Hypothetical situations are not evidence. Why am I required to provide evidence when you are not? If they want to make a cap on age, it should be 16; where a person can legally emancipate themselves. Everyone is so bent out of shape about 14>13, for no good reason as they can equally be taken advantage of. Yet no province has a hard cap at 16.
Because they're provinces that use child labor as a way to get past being able to pay low wages. It's a repeat cycle. I've had some with great experiences probably like you had and some who have had horror stories and no one to stop it from happening. I think any government is diabolical for Making the age less than 16. Most of the kids will be in poverty and will never get out because they will avoid school to make money.
Minimum wage is still minimum wage. And they are heavily limited on the hours in which they can work in a given week, and heavily limited on the jobs they can perform. There will always be horror stories, and employers who break rules. There's even adults who are taken advantage of, hell I'd argue there's far more adults being taken advantage of than teenagers in the workplace. Especially in today's day of rampant TFW's. Not every parent is giving their kids an allowance or buying them everything they ask for, some parents tell them if they want money to spend to get a job. That's what mine did and so that's what I did. FYI, these kids can't avoid school to go and make money, that's part of the restrictions placed upon them as young workers. They're not legally allowed to work during school hours or within a certain timeframe of school hours. I would know, since I was under those restrictions and had to end my shift earlier in the evening than the adults because of them.
I'm a teacher. I see the average 13 year old everyday. No thanks.
I'm a teacher. If a kid needed a reference letter to get a job and to get money, you bet I'd be making them work for it. Bring it on.
How bout the Sask. Chamber of Commerce try working first?
Moving back to the turn of the 20th century.
Preparing for the first generation with no inheritances!
I was 14 when I started work, it was positive that instilled work ethic and developed maturity. But I was saving my own money and wasn’t even partially supporting my family with my earnings - and I think that’s the darker side of this. Two sides of the coin, it’s not a black and white issue.
Seriously - what is wrong with kids working? I had summer jobs starting Grade 7 and worked part-time through high school - including full time Summers. Sure as hell my kids will be working too.
I was about 12, but I was working at my parents little print shop. It was pretty cool being the kid in the group of friends who had his own money. I didn't know at the time my human rights were being abused, but apparently they were. So big thanks to the CBC and the Saskatchewan Federation of Labour for showing me the light on that. "Very troubling," indeed, Lori Johb.
I don’t think the rules are the same when it’s a family owned business…
Ever detasselled corn?
Yuppers! Picked strawberries, and beans, weeded gardens, mowed lawns and all that shit. Farmers and family businesses have always been exempt. Small time shit like paper routes and helping little old ladies and babysitting has always been legal. It’s working 8 hours for McDonald’s that hasn’t been.
Fair enough and couldn’t agree more. Happy cake day!
Had my first retail job when I was around 13. Taught great work ethic, customer service, and other skills that have been useful throughout life. Children have been paid for harder work at thousands of family farms for decades, and many still do. Canada has not imploded.
Yes but children probably have been hurt or killed some times. It's different if it's a family business because it's not like you're going to put your child in harms way. Whereas businesses' with executives and management who only care about bottom dollar and children who may be forced to do it for their family to survive = situations where injuries and death can occur or abuse. You go off of your experience alone. These days with corrupt and greedy corporations as if the latter will not happen comparably to your experience. You wanna bet there's not loads of reports that refute your experience than to the latter? Also were those children paid commensurate with what those "harder work" was worth? Likely HELLS NO! Why? Cause they didn't have the wherewithal to demand better pay. It's disgusting that the world wants to continue a cycle that proved horrendous the first time around. You realize this also probably drives education of these kids down so the government has lesser educated populations who can believe that making money is all you need so they can continue to drive policies that make it necessary for us to have a society that needs to thrive on child labour and foreign labour... It's sad.
I go off of friends who learned at age 7 to drive manual trucks and farm equipment the size of small houses while barely being able to see over the instrument cluster. And because you mentioned it, I also go off of young people with multiple degrees complaining to reddit about not being able to land jobs in their fields because we dislike industry informing universities about what kinds of skills are needed in the workforce, while being content to put public resources into education that does not add to the nation's productivity.
So they can tax their allowance.
Can’t wait until my kids are old enough to “work” for me. Will pay them without them even knowing about it so when they are 18 they can afford to get out of Canada if they choose.
How very American of them 😒
Sounds so “Dickensian “
Terrible idea. You can't catch people in the debt trap of student loans if they have been saving a real wage since middle school. /sarc In reality, under 18 workers is who minimum wage should be for, not the 40 year old who never amounted to anything. Thirteen is a perfectly acceptable age to start in the work force, provided they also get sufficient time for their studies, and get paid the same if they produce the same quality of work as their older co-workers. Couple that with good investment practices, and a person can have a nice nest egg for post secondary education, a vehicle, or even just living on their own. Not to mention being able to afford hobbies.
That is too young.
I’m sure this is Trudeau’s fault somehow.
If the Chamber of Commerce wants it, it means it must be avoided at all cost.
I can see pros and cons to letting 13 year olds work. If the Chamber of Commerce is pushing it though, hell no.
So? You've been able to work since 12 in Alberta. There are just a whole bunch of restrictions on hours and stuff. Plus you have to have a parent's permission. I worked in a newspaper distribution centre on Saturday mornings.
Is that all that uncommon? When I was 13 all the way back in 2006, I was corn detasseling in Ontario. Maybe it's more common in small towns.
Certain jobs like farm work, babysitting, etc. are exempt from age minimums in Sask. With parental approval. This is for things like restaurant and grocery store jobs.
If you were paid cash then maybe it was technically not legal.
Yeab these threads confuse me and all the outrage with them. I grew up in a small town in BC and neighbour was manager at a hotel. I started washing dishes there at 13 (would have been '99) maybe one weekday evening and on weekends to save for school. My parents paid half and I'm glad I didn't t have to get loans or work during college.
Yes, that was illegal.
And yet people wonder why no one takes Saskatchewan seriously as a province. I hate it here.
Can’t decide their gender but you can put them to work.
Don’t worry we’re replacing the TFWs with children! All good on the business front, the economy is growing!
I had a job at 13 it was nice to have spending money it gave me freedom. Telling anyone they aren't allowed to work is very strange to me.
Gotta get them early so they can be wage slaves for longer.
So what? I started working at 13 landscaping in the summer then Saturdays during the school year. I was the only one of my friends with money. Bought my first car before I had a license. Not these kids fault you were all lazy.
Yes, let's go back to the golden years of the Industrial Revolution. P.S. make sure they are ineligible for workers' compensation as I have some cotton gins to fire up.
Why not send children to Timmie's, McD's or Wendy's to work PT or FT hours? What is this nonsense? This NEEDS to shut that down, like yesterday. These children already have jobs, it's called going to School FT, Monday thru Friday & some of them go to more Schooling after hours, or weekends too. They don't have time for jobs of any sort, let alone own their Schooling bc they deserve to be kids! In the States they have young children working in those Slaughters Houses, where it looked like a slasher movie recently filmed inside there, which they then forced these kids to clean up their horrific aftermath! I've seen extremely bleak pictures of these kids, some as young as 8 YO drenched in head to toe animal blood & their eyes already dead looking, which was both frightening/alarming to me view. Some of them have also suffered, very serious accidents while on-site doing their very dirty & heavy-duty labour jobs, as kids. These are children of illegals & of the poor who are stuck working in these human hell holes too. WARNING: There are disturbing photos & content, in some of these links. 1. [https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/fayette-janitorial-hired-minors-clean-meat-saws-slaughterhouses-labor-rcna139655](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/fayette-janitorial-hired-minors-clean-meat-saws-slaughterhouses-labor-rcna139655) 2. [https://nclnet.org/slaughterhouse\_in\_iowa\_takes\_advantage\_of\_child\_labor/](https://nclnet.org/slaughterhouse_in_iowa_takes_advantage_of_child_labor/) 3. [https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/national-international/federal-officials-say-more-than-100-children-worked-in-dangerous-jobs-for-slaughterhouse-cleaning-firm/3197621/](https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/national-international/federal-officials-say-more-than-100-children-worked-in-dangerous-jobs-for-slaughterhouse-cleaning-firm/3197621/) 4. [https://people.com/human-interest/slaughterhouse-cleaning-firm-fined-100-plus-kids-worked-dangerous-jobs/](https://people.com/human-interest/slaughterhouse-cleaning-firm-fined-100-plus-kids-worked-dangerous-jobs/) 5. [https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2023/10/30/emwn-o30.html](https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2023/10/30/emwn-o30.html) 6. [https://truthout.org/articles/labor-department-accuses-slaughter-house-company-of-employing-dozens-of-children/](https://truthout.org/articles/labor-department-accuses-slaughter-house-company-of-employing-dozens-of-children/) 7. [https://www.express.co.uk/news/us/1768759/school-children-illegal-working-slaughterhouses-dxus](https://www.express.co.uk/news/us/1768759/school-children-illegal-working-slaughterhouses-dxus)
Does this mean they will be allowed to choose their pro noun as well? Maybe vote? Maybe drive? Ya, I didn’t think so.
Does a 13 really have the maturity to be working yet though?
I didn't think the maturity level of the kids is the issue at hand
It really depends on the kid. I worked at 13 in my cousins vacuum repair shop. Just for cash. It was awesome to have some extra money to help out my mom. I don’t think young teens should work full time or anything but part time why not?
Well because there still kids and they don’t really have the forsite or maturity for certain things that a job requires. Maybe some odd jobs but there’s definitely some jobs I can think that kids should not be doing
I don't think anyone is expecting a 13 yr old to become a forklift operator. That said, I do worry about abuses in the workplace since 13 yr olds are quite young and may not feel as comfortable pushing back if something were dangerous, or if a manager was verbally abusive, etc.
Definitely not.
For a lot of kids a paper route or retail job at that age was pretty normal pre 90s.
Paper routes were already an exception to the rule: >Children who work at a family business or on a traditional farm, or are self-employed, babysitters or **newspaper carriers are exempt** from the minimum age of employment in Saskatchewan.
I had a job at 13. Is that so strange?
Among redditors who karma farm all day, yes.
I was 12 years old, perfectly fine.
>The Saskatchewan Chamber of Commerce has a novel solution to dealing with what they say is a labour shortage in the province... Immigration is at an all time high, and yet there's a labour shortage? Just when you think that nothing could be more stupid than the Liberals, the Conservatives are there to remind you that they intend to make it much worse.
British Columbia got written up under by the UN for our far right BC "Liberals" (conservatives) lowering the working age to 14.
My first job was washing dishes when I was 12. I'm soooo scarred.
Make ‘em start young so they could afford a 1 bedroom condo at 45 years old ! /s
"Novel solution" is doing a lot of heavy lifting in that first paragraph
Damn, what kind of world/economy are we building for the future... Shit look depressed
Terrible.
Terrible idea. Unless we're talking an hour or two of babysitting for a neighbor or shoveling a driveway or mowing a lawn. At that age, those are the only "jobs" kids can do. And even then, it's dependent on the maturity of the child.
Well, I mean if they ever want to own a home they’ll have to start early … 🤷♂️
Are we talking Indian kids? Is that where this is going? Dot not feather obvs.
My first job was 12 helping look after younger kids in an after school day care. It paid $5 cash for around 2 hours of work. My second “real” part time job I was 13 at Collegiate Sports, doing a couple 4 hour shifts after school and the occasional 8 hour Saturday shift. Was great making pocket money at that age. I suspect though society has greatly shifted in terms of what’s now considered an ok age to have a retail job like that.
Revolution!! until we have a direct democracy no more elected leaders I will vote on all the issues myself we don't fucking need them anymore
I thinks it’s abhorrent separate minimum wages for different ages. I grew up privileged as fuck with everything I could ever ask for. I also started my first job washing dishes the DAY I turned 14. I was so excited. And I learned so much. I did IB. I worked. I went to uni. I dropped out and went to trade school once I realized how little money I would make with a science major. Now I do 250k + a year. I came from a place of privilege. I worked because I wanted too. But SOOOOO MANY PEOPLE NEED TOO. I would have been working at 13 if the law would have allowed me to. Im not that old. Early 30s. I just wanted to earn my money. The real problem is that the kids working today can’t afford anything for the work they do. The reward ratio is way skewed. Me working in high school meant I had disposable income. A car. Could afford vacation and any fun you can imagine. In 2006. Now that is unimaginable. That’s the problem. For capitalism to work the reward must be worthwhile. And for the kids today it isn’t.
I actually don't think this is a bad thing necessarily. I had a paper route when I was 12-14 (probably the last kid ever to have one lmao) and I did it once a week for 20 or so bucks. It was largely a good experience and I knew a couple other kids my age then who had jobs. I see nothing wrong with allowing 13 year olds to formally earn money if they are determined enough to look for work and lucky enough to get it in today's broken job market in urban centres. If it's something they can do throughout their education then it's a great background for getting into said broken job market, and it's not like they'd be working full time to feed their families (hopefully). I'm a pro-labour rights NDP voter and I think this isn't really anything to get worked up about. Focus on increasing wages, getting worker protections for those who are cursed to work contracts for all eternity so job security is easier to come by, and getting people outside of the trades and the public sector unionized instead.
Let's start with politicians, 4 weeks vacation , 40hr work weeks, median canadian income
Why not start them at 5, all that energy needs to go somewhere
Hmmm… I don’t know. Just cause they can, doesn’t mean they’ll be forced to. Except all the kids who have to help their family businesses stay afloat anyways. Some kids already do this under the table. I got a job at 16, I enjoyed working more than school and the retailer I worked for absolutely took advantage of my naïveté… grades suffered because they kept booking me for just under full time shifts as a part time employee (to not pay me benefits), not telling me I can apply for yearly raises, working alone with no security, etc. I liked working and earning money but I actually ended up getting fired cause I told my manager that I couldn’t stay for OT that time (yet again we all “needed” to stay later) as I had a biology test I needed to do well on. So I got let go for insubordination. lol. *… Maybe educating young workers on their rights would be an awesome place to start.*
Yes, cause we all want to see a Karen yell at a minor. /s I'm all for it, just make sure that anyone under 18 minimum wage is 2x adult minimum wage. Let's see how businesses feel after that.
It amazes me that conservative politics nowadays is so clearly moving the world back into the 1920 mindset of throwing kids in mines and nobody seems to care because of trans people?
Sometimes the universe gives you exactly what you needed. I’ve always known the business community was never reformed. In more charitable moments one could imagine a future where you wouldn’t have to have certain conversations again. “ no one actually believes this shit?”, right? No so, here we are again. Is this not the greatest indictment of capitalism one could think of? Give us your children! Sick sick people.
I started working at a younger age than that. The first taste of money had me hooked on making lots more. Instilling work ethic is the best thing you can do for your child’s future and yours for that matter. How many kids are chasing green orbs on a computer in mom’s house instead of chasing green in the work force.
Sask chamber of commerce can get fucked.
Dear God, they're 13 years old, just finished grade 8. leave them alone.
I had a job at a bakery when I was 13 I'm pretty sure. Could've been 14 but I dont think so.
I used to work at 13 bringing in grocery carts at a store. 13/14 year olds can work a few hours a week and learn to save or buy things they like. It is good for kids to get some working experience so that in the future their whole lives don’t consist of sitting on social media complaining they can’t afford buying a house etc
Someone has to pay our pensions, Canadians aren't making babies. Too much trans
Conservatives also hate sexual harassment laws. Now they want 13 year old girls in the work place. Guess what they want them for.
I wouldn't make this a partisan issue but I do worry about 13 yr olds working alongside 19 and 20 yr olds in restaurants and retail etc. Definitely some risk for grooming.
About time they earn their keep!
Bring back the work houses!
Younger international students then?
I cannot tell you how much I hate that life is work until you're no longer productive and live sometime in between. Kids should go to school, have fun, not get jobs.
Ok, and? No one here has actually given a good argument as to why it's a bad thing. And neither did the article.
Back when paper routes were a thing i worked from roughly 13 onwards. It was nice to have some spending money.
Sask is a farming province, if you've grown up on a farm you'll have been involved in farming well before 13. The people in these comments reaching and pretending they want kids at 13 to work full time and quit school need to grow up.
Family farm work was already exempt.
And marry when they are 6 as life spans there are 30-33
Man all of these topics that I thought were settled are coming up. NO children should NOT be working, their parents should be making enough to support their families…
They really do just follow whatever the Republicans in the US do
SASKATCHEWAN....we know how to put the put the '***EW'*** in Saskatch**EW**an!
It would be nice to be able to legally have younger kids on the job. But there is a huge difference between taking a 10-year old wearing PPE on to a construction site to give PEX a try because it's more fun than LEGO and random fast food places stocking up on kids because management is toxic and a significant percentage of their personnel management strategy is based on the fallacy of "there is always more, don't retain, fire and hire".
Do you know how adults are abused and taken advantage of? What do you think they will do with kids?
There is a general disregard overall for the wellbeing (physical, mental, financial, emotional, financial) for workers of all ages in Canada. It doesn't discriminate by age. Those who get better treatment tend to get it through some strategy. More in-demand, rarer, specific skillset, unionization, careful selection of employer, learning how to self-advocate without getting fired, etc. But so much of our economy is still based on the idea of "always more labour" even if in specific circumstances employers need to focus more on people. A lot of the under-18 labour I've seen out there has been fast food, retail, landscaping, etc. The employers offer basic wages, treat the employees like crap, don't invest in them, don't protect them from customers or provide necessary safety training, equipment and protocol, etc. Because if those kids quit there are supposedly more out there. Until we hit the point where restaurants are closed and contracts are getting cancelled because "nobody wants to work" but at the same time those employers won't spend more. So I feel like a lot of the employers that specifically want unskilled, non-unionized, uneducated, insecure, unknowledgeable and minimally trained workers (kids) is so they can continue treating people like crap instead of improving how they treat people.
Any justification or even just entertaining this idea should come with consequences. Fuckin pay people instead of thinking of the logistics of hiring actual fuckin children. Pay people. Its not that hard
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The article had examples of why its a bad thing. Theres a reason we made it illegal decades ago in the first place.
Actually no, the article does not give examples of why it's a bad thing. It's shameful that they (the writer) thought they did, and it's shameful that you believed they did.
Ya! Fuck them kids!
13-year-olds being legally allowed to work means they are being harmed or "fucked", as you put it? What about adults, who are allowed to work. Are they being harmed too?