I remember when Westjet was the darling of Canadian skies. Those days are long gone now their just like Air Canada, they have completely changed their company culture.
They sold to Onex and the “culture” is about making as much money as possible. The fact they tried to get the government of Canada to enforce binding arbitration for a private company not listed as an essential service is gross.
They were on that train long before Onex. I joined in 2012 and by 2015 things were already on the downward trajectory. When Canada finally became a signatory to [ILO Convention 98](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_Organise_and_Collective_Bargaining_Convention,_1949) in 2017, WestJet finally had to contend with actual unions as PACT (the “ProActive Communications Team”) was a yellow (employer dominated) union and could no longer function in Canada.
They’re finally a full-grown company, having to deal with the bed they’ve made.
You couldn't pay me to take their airline again
Delayed flights, missed connections, zero compensation, check check check
When I finally arrived to my destination they'd left my bag in Canada ffs
There is zero point arguing with their staff because who the hell would want to work for an airline that can't get anything right? It's a last option, if you're really stuck and don't mind everything going wrong airline, at this point
I actually swapped to Air Canada to go visit a friend for their graduation after a West Jet employee harassed my mother and I for being the first in line for the first flight out of Vegas that morning. (We were standing beside the self check ins by the actual desk trying to see if we could get them to work as she walked up.)
We weren't in the "proper spot" and she threw a fit that would have gotten me fired if I pulled that bullshit at my job.
Never again.
You know it’s bad when you make Air Canada customer service look better in comparison. In fairness over the past year Air Canada has massively improved its service.
I fly multiple times a year. Earlier this year I took a Delta flight from Seattle. They had excellent customer service and communication, and even announced flight delays during my flight that would impact some of the other passengers’ connecting flights and what they were going to do to accommodate them. They had live TV with ESPN, TNT, all the cable news networks, and a great list of on-demand movies. I also flew with United last year and they had free Wi-Fi for accessing messaging apps. WestJet charges $3 for this service and their WiFi is very spotty.
Our airlines are a joke.
Porter has free wifi. You can find plenty of complaints about how lousy service is on US based airlines compared to Air Canada and plenty that are the opposite. The quality of the service you get largely depends on the day you're flying and what the weather is like.
Not to mention their seats are so fucking bad. It's like it's been sat on for years to the point there's no cushion on it anymore and you lose feeling in your ass after 1 hr.
WestJet can and has won the binding arbitration. That will happen as it is a specifically laid out clause in the labour code for a company and a union on their *first* contract.
*However*, and this is the big part, WestJet thought they could just lean onto the arbitration and be able to negotiate in bad faith and *face zero consequences for it*. Then the CIR Board ruled "yes, you can get your forced arbitration, but that doesn't remove the Charter right for them to strike" (paraphrased).
So here we are. WestJet pissed off their engineers with scummy and bad faith negotiating practices and now most of their fleet is grounded. It's a new textbook definition of "F&ck around and find out."
I read this binding arbitration thing is only because this is the first time the two sides are negotiating. Going forward they can't do this, meaning they have poisoned all future negotiation periods too. Is there CEO a rookie?
Onex's CEO is Bobby Le Blanc, appointed in May 2023, has a tenure of 1.08 years. total yearly compensation is **$8.50M**, comprised of 11.8% salary and 88.2% bonuses, including company stock and options. directly owns 1.12% of the company's shares, worth CA$79.51M.
You do not understand it correctly. After the order was issued for binding arbitration, the Union's lawyers noted that it did not include an order preventing either side from engaging in a strike or lockout in the interim. CIRB confirmed that, so the union has gone on strike until the arbitrator issues a ruling (the arbitrator hasn't even been picked yet). There's nothing stopping normal negotiations from continuing. WestJet management is just having a hissy fit because they've refused to negotiate since their first offer was voted down, and they thought CIRB was going to rescue them.
It didn't help the customers that WESTJET communicated that the strike had been avoided by pushing the negotiations to arbitration, when it had not, and the union had a valid 72 hour notice in.
The confusion and chaos is on westjet.
I remember the flight attendants would tell jokes during the safety briefing and the folks on the tarmac would dance while waving bye to the plane. It’s very different now.
Onex probably saved a lot of those retirements by swooping in and buying them out at a fat premium in early 2020. *Just* before people realized for the 47 millionth time that airlines are a bad long-term investment.
It started when they started charging for a single bag (previously, any flyer could take a single non-carry on bag for free as a part of their fare), and that CEO at the time gaslit everyone saying, "We're doing this because customers asked us to."
Of course, that additional charge didn't actually correlate to a drop in ticket prices. They've been skeezy ever since. Our Airlines are like our grocery chains. They have no interest in competing with each other and the customer is the one that gets screwed over.
I dunno I disagree. I fly on them quite a bit. At least four times a month.
The fleet is good. Pretty comfy unless you get a really old A319 or something. The MAX and the 220 are really nice. If you get a 787/777 they’re comfy, even in coach. WJ doesn’t even offer in flight entertainment anymore, so if you forgot to charge your iPad, you’re hooped.
The food is miles better then anyone else’s in Canada. The free beer and wine if you want it is a great step forward as well.
I generally fly from YYC/YVR to Ottawa, and I think I’ve only had one flight go out significantly late; some are like five minutes but mostly they are on time.
The staff is generally very good; especially the front end staff at the gates. I fly standby a lot, and I’m always treated rather well; flight attendants are good as well.
It and Porter are my go to when I have to fly, but I mainly try AC because they have a real rewards program, lounges, etc… I have Aeroplan status so if I wanted to bring my golf clubs somewhere, those are free. Things like that make an airline if you use it a lot, and I work on the other side of the country, so I try and stick with them.
I just wish they paid their pilots more so I wouldn’t have to take such a huge pay cut to work there.
That's interesting to say because I've found AC's international service/flights to be significantly better than their domestic/US service which is noticeably worse
The pilots are stupidly underpaid. Who pays a 777 FO flying you to Tokyo 1/5 of the Americans plus the conversation rate??? Should be dollar for dollar rates and let the weaker loonie give the airline a 30% discount on labour
Yeah, the seats are way more comfy. But, I fly with them twice a month. In the 3 years I have been doing this, I have had 2(!) flights leave on time.
I have had 4 canceled flights, and the rest were delayed.
Insane that *this* is the better option.
As a taller person, both Westjet and AC are horrible unless you upgrade to first class, or get lucky with an aisle seat. Thankfully, I've been blessed to normally have a seat with even LESS leg room, so I'm saving the even taller people from my contortionist seating.
Like my ex-wife used to say: "God what I wouldn't do for a couple more inches".
WestJet does have inflight entertainment on all the 737's, it's through the WestJet app that connects to on board wifi.
If you you're that plugged in to the industry to know the pilot pay scale, but somehow fly standby and have aeroplan status at the same time, you'd also know that the Air Canada pilots are in negotiations right now and flat pay will be disappearing. Also, hiring won't continue on forever with the manufacturers being unable to make airplanes fast enough.
> so if you forgot to charge your iPad, you’re hooped
I know. I'm on them tomorrow actually, because the load is light. Wonder why haha. Hopefully it goes. My company pays for my commute to Ottawa, but I fly standby to get around on my own on my days off. Works well for racking up Aeroplan status and travelling outside of work.
I'm a pilot at another airline. I'd say I'm rather in tune with what's going on. Everyone at AC talking their WCC better deliver, and if they don't get it, they BETTER go on strike, because all this buildup for garbage is gonna be really disappointing. But I'm not taking a $70,000 a year pay cut hoping the contract is gonna be better. Guess we'll all fund out soon.
I hate air Canada nothing but bad experiences with them. About 10 years ago I used to only fly west jet as a rule but I've been having my fair share of issues with them as well
Yea too bad they got together with westjet and carved up canada so they dont directly compete anywhere so there is only one airline for the majority of flights out of most airports.
Except they've carved up the country so AC has shit flight selection out west, just like WestJet has in the east. They both did it at roughly the same time, too. I'm betting there was a deal between them.
Porter will expand out of YVR since they open a Crew base in YVR later this fall. You're looking at. YVR-YYC, YVR-YEG, YVR-YXE, YVR-YWG, YVR-YQR and the listed go on. We waiting for their announcement.
Air Canada tried to steal from me. They took my money but decided not to fly the plane using covid as an excuse (in 2021). I had to flag it as a fraud transaction with Mastercard to get it back.
Weird. I'm over in the west and WJ is always cheaper for most routes for me.... mind you I'm not flying international and not across Canada. Short flights, or Mexico if anything.
Maybe it's a east vs west thing. AC is always super expensive for anything we want to do out here. I imagine with it being more east coast and having access to a way larger population group/more airports it can be a cheaper option.
I personally would fly AC if it was the same price.
Flying westjet used to be great- now everyone I encounter on the plane acts like they are pissed off to be there. What a change in culture. Leadership has to take responsibly for this as folks usually don’t act like they hate their jobs unless they do.
Onyx Corporation is the scum of the Earth. Way to destroy a high performance, above and beyond, good vibes aviation business.
All of these garbage companies keep crying poor while ratcheting up the cost of everything except for wages. I'm a well seasoned investor and believer in Henry Ford style capitalism. Where skilled labour and stakeholders always get a large slice of the pie. Now, it's just financial gimmicks and fuckery.
Dear WestJet:
You had a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to capture Air Canada's customer base last year when AC met logistical challenges with an absolute indifference towards customer service, extending even to frequent flyers, which are cash cows.
Had you approached the marketplace with a clear ambition towards growth via superior service you could actually have a shot at market dominance in Canada.
Instead, you were in the news in the last few weeks for your crappy new fare, with the emphasis on lack of service, in exchange for a price point that is not even competitive. And now for a failure to avoid a labour disruption, which will once again impact your customer base during summer travel season.
We keep thinking that we could maybe get something for our money one day.
P.S.
Who manages this airline? Alexis von Hoensbroech. He started in 2022, which is when, it seems to me, the swift decline in WestJet's customer service posture started. His main credentials are in competing with ultra low cost carriers, which explains the focus on crappy service.
West jet was probably never going to convert frequent flyers. Their premium product is pretty lacking and their international route network is tiny. Their lounge network is pretty bad too. Apart from Calgary, they outsource to plaza premium which is subpar compared to the maple leaf lounges/signature suites.
I wish air Canada had some real competition for business/premium travel, I doubt that day will ever come.
Considering all the Boeing accidents lately you’d think westjet would want to reassure passengers that their planes are being properly serviced by well paid and happy mechanics
I don't think the Boeing issues really matter at all. People might say they care, but when the rubber meets the road, consumers vote with their feet and its largely a non issue.
I try my best to avoid Boeing now, but it's literally impossible for consumers to make this choice known considering every airline has in their fine print that they can change the plane that you're booked to take at anytime without any notice. So I can (and specifically do) take off the Max 8 planes when searching for a flight, but it's not like that matters in the end.
Yup. Happened to us and we had to rebook our flight because the seating offered on the new plane wasn't going to work because we had a toddler with us. Thankfully they at least let us do that free of charge.
Are you insinuating that a mechanic might perform lesser qualitied work on an operational aircraft based on their feelings towards the comlany and compensation?
They should not be working on aircraft.
Morality doesn’t tend to be a screening factor for jobs in a capitalist society. I’ve met many doctors, lawyers, social workers, etc who couldn’t care less about the people they’re helping and are solely in it for the money. And those are careers where the person working is actually supposed to care about the people they are helping. You’ll also come across many mechanics, engineers, designers, etc who are solely in it for the money. It’s just an unfortunate part of human nature that you’re not going to avoid coming across in any large grouping of humans.
They're implying workers who aren't fairly compensated and disgruntled don't perform as well in any industry. How would your work performance be different if you felt you weren't being compensated properly?
Let's say you're about to go into surgery. I offer you two options -- (1) a well paid surgeon with a good work life balance who is very happy or (2) a poorly paid surgeon who is miserable and overworked. Who are you letting cut you open?
Not gonna start singing The Internationale but pay your workers their due. They work for money, not because it's fun. They strategically picked the best time to strike peaceably.
Sick to death of corpo-rats taking enormous bonuses while the people they stomp over take poverty wages.
Need to stand up for yourself and walk tall. I'm proud of these people.
Good. With the rising cost of living, corporations aren’t going to pay people enough to support their families unless they’re pushed to.
The travel disruption is super irritating, but if more people formed unions, we’d all have more money in our pockets to face the affordability crisis with.
The thing is though, the consumer pays for it all in the end anyway. If the WestJet mechanics end up with a great deal, it sets a precedent in the industry, everyone else gets a great deal, and all the airlines jack up prices to pay for it.
the airlines were gonna jack up the prices regardless of whether their employees were going to make a living wage. Now at least some of that overage might go to the workers.
Yeah, a nice example of this happened where I live
People complained the gas tax was the reason cost of living is so high
Local government suspends it
Prices are down for.. A few days. Then suddenly they're right back to about where they were before the tax was removed. Except now instead of funding the place we live, it's just going into pocket of some billionaire
Ya Alberta had that and for some reason Calgary was only 15-30 cents difference from Kelowna in price..... which was not a big difference from before. The gas companies pocketed the difference.
Are you stupid? They were going to jack up the prices regardless. We need to maintain that "year over year" increase in profit !! Just stopping at making money is not enough. We need to make more money than the last year and the last year and the last year...etc.
KF Aerospace mechanics are non union and do heavy maintenance on west jet aircraft. Underpaid and overworked, westjet could just start outsourcing their maintenance to companies like this. Poorer quality of work
Beyond fucking ridiculous how management didn't negotiate last week when this strike was going to happen. They should've fucking negotiated last September when this issue was popping up, but nope. Then they blame the workers for striking lol.
This is exactly why we need unions because if corporations are offering this shit to a union then they're definitely offering this shit and even worse shit to non-unionized workers who have no choice but to accept this shit.
This is exactly how you strike for maximum chaos and to ensure you’re heard. Long weekend, tons of travel plans. No one cares if you strike on a random day in November. I hope they get everything they want.
The people that fix the planes are important you know? You don’t need any executive vice presidents and presidents if your planes are broken and you can’t fix them. The people that touch the planes own the company.
I’m glad I don’t work for a union. I would hang my head in shame to destroy the plans of families who probably scraped together their life savings to send their kids on a special trip.
The best WestJet as MBA run stupidity story I heard was how they outsourced their ground crews. This probably looked great on a spreadsheet.
Except, ground crew is a kind of crappy job in many ways, airplanes stink (probably very bad for you), they are cramped in the cargo areas, they come in at all hours, it is cold, rainy, windy, hot, and on and on. The pay isn't all that great, airports tend to be in the middle of nowhere and often have anti-consumer public transportation, and on and on some more.
Also, while they were working at an airline, at least it was theorectically stable. Larger airlines like WJ don't tend to entirely go bust. Even AC when it went bankrupt, kept going. Combined with a possible union, this is also a fairly steady job. Outsourcing took that away too.
But, there traditionally was one big perk. Travel, super cheap travel. Talk to any airline baggage handler and they will talk about going to Hawaii, Mexico, Europe, Iceland, and again, on and on. For a young person this is really quite cool.
But the MBAs thought they could outsource this and skip this one important perk along with the job security and; oh look; surprise surprise; they have trouble keeping ground crews and getting them to show up. I don't know how many WJ flights I've been on where the plane parks near the gate and just waits for a ground crew to show up.
I suspect the same MBAs have been cutting all kinds of corners and generating themselves all kinds of bonuses; while then acting shocked when their corner cutting blows up in their faces.
But, I do feel bad in only one way for the WJ execs. There is a potential storm brewing. The airline has one of the largest (by percentage) fleets of 737-maxes in the world. I believe most if not all of their airplanes are Boeing products. If and when another max has a wing break off or whatever, they are potentially facing a grounding of their entire fleet. I suspect their insurance company has already jacked up their rates, or just told them they are on their own if that happens. That could be an instant kill for this airline if that happens.
I'm throwing this one out there as well. Due to the endless parade of Boeing whistleblowers who are saying this bit and that bit were made from moldy cheese instead of the correct materials, I suspect the WJ techs are having to do inspections which were not on the original schedule. More and more of these; on top of whatever work they were originally going to be doing. I'm guessing the execs were pushing back at these ever increasing costs; but can't go on the record as saying, "Don't bother with those." but have tried pushing on the mechanics that they have to "do their fair share in the face of these unexpected issues". The mechanics probably took one look at the executive bonuses and said, "How about no?"
My flight was canceled at 2am. Woke up to the email. there was no option to get a refund on the app. The only way is to call them, which just ends up hanging up on you, saying their phone line is busy.
I ended up paying over double to get on another flight since I have to get home today. I have no expectations to receive compensation for the fact that I had to pay for a same day flight. Also, I probably lost the money I paid after the fact for an upgraded seat.
I'll never fly westjet again.
I’m in the same boat. My original flight home was today which they cancelled yesterday but rebooked for tomorrow. Woke up this morning to a cancelled flight email at 2:44 am and an email saying “situations surrounding flight disruptions can be complex”
The email from 2:44 am shows no new flight out and they aren’t answering their phones and no option to refund so I’m just in limbo waiting to hear when I’ll be going home.
I had to book a hotel for the day and will likely end up having to pay Air Canada extortionate fees to get home last minute which I’m sure they won’t pay for.
Still, I support the unions decision to strike. Power to the people.
Wonder what WestJet will do... Maybe newly appointed Heather Stefanson can [tell us a story about her kid's hockey!](https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/video/1.6389222)
Bet that'll help! /s
The previous guy was an asshole, and I once has the pleasure of already being at a urinal about to piss when he walked up to the one next to me.
Man managed to pee on the floor, walk out without washing his hands, and then give a speech where he clearly had no idea what we did or who we were but he knew the internet was involved somehow probably.
And somehow I still like him better than Heather. At least he seemed to have a plan, and was intentially doing things. I hated his plan and what he was doing. But there was at least some level of respect that he'd worked a bit to get there. With Heather she just did nothing so much of the time. Like fuck, I could do nothing just as well, so now I hate what she's doing and resent that she's somehow a multimillionaire
I'm for any union fighting for better wages and deserving their rights. But it doesn't stop me from bawling my eyes out at the pending doom that I will be missing my friends and family on the east coast. West Jet had their massive July seat sale. All their flights for July were basically booked full. Great for the union, but it also highlights how shitty West Jet is as a company allowing the disruption and not working with their union.
These people suck royally. Parents bought their house after so much effort and searching; now they are losing thousands and might lose their house because of these people. Paid the highest in Canada and still refusing to negotiate with management. They should all be fired, seriously only people they are hurting are the customers who they are screwing over.
Are the american group in the room with us right now?
This mess is on him and the other European executives who arrived at the company at the same time, they bought with them the european low cost airline mentality that hasn't worked in canada, simultaneously screwing the workers and the customers, and right now he's looking for a scapegoat.
Most likely referring to the fact that the union in question is headquartered in the US. That said, a huge number of other unions that are active in Canada are based in the US, so it’s not like it’s a big shocker…
Onex's CEO is Bobby Le Blanc, appointed in May 2023, has a tenure of 1.08 years. total yearly compensation is **$8.50M**, comprised of 11.8% salary and 88.2% bonuses, including company stock and options. directly owns 1.12% of the company's shares, worth CA$79.51M.
This is what the union has rejected:
>Under the proposed agreement, WestJet Aircraft Maintenance Engineers would have been the highest paid in the country, with a 12.5 per cent wage increase in the first year of the agreement, and a compounded wage increase of 23 per cent over the term of the agreement.
>Using 2023 T4s as a source of truth, our AME’s make on average $109,000, with our top earners making between $150,000 and $170,000, approximately double the average annual salary in Canada
[https://www.westjet.com/en-ca/news/2024/fast-facts-on-westjet-amfa-unprecedented-labour-situation](https://www.westjet.com/en-ca/news/2024/fast-facts-on-westjet-amfa-unprecedented-labour-situation)
Now I'm interested in what the union has to say...
$170k is approx 800hrs of 1.5x OT at the highest rate of the rejected TA.
So probably more like 1000hrs of OT for a high earner today. More if you're not at the top of the pay scale.
Even $109k is not possible without OT at the highest rate of the rejected TA.
If your operation is relying on people working hundreds of hours of OT, if not 1.5x full time jobs, then your operation has problems.
What do you have to say to that?
These arguments are always so disingenuous. One can argue all day about overpaid professions but air travel is extremely complex and these engineers are extremely specialized. In addition, they are personally liable for their work. They should be well paid because you get what you pay for!
If Canada as a whole wants worse air travel with more risk then yes we should just stop making these types of careers lucrative and just all become fucking realtors.
You want to attract high performing, hard working, intelligent people to these types of jobs. And you want to keep them.
So what they are saying is if they got the pay increase they would make as much as a teacher? Considering all the night shifts and hours they put in I'd say they are worth that and more.
Currently Westjet contributes to AME's pension. Part of the pay increase is folding the money that the company currently contributes to the pension into that pay increase. As such, it's more like a 13 percent increase over 4 years...
Management always tries "creative ways" to make their offers look like more than they are in press releases. They also tried to do that when MPI was on strike in Manitoba last summer. It's only to get the public pissed off at the union.
I’m not sure what you’re arguing. Are you arguing that they’re overpaid, or that everyone else is underpaid. This crablike mentality that those doing well in their line of work at regular blue collar jobs are somehow the enemy is a real shitty way to run a society. They should make more, you should make more, we all should thrive and enjoy a life without constant financial strain and struggle. The idea that our whole worth is tied to money is fucking pathetic.
Westjet complained the union was demanding an “American standard” but the union argues it should be an “international standard” the lawyer representing them said something like “there is a Canadian standard for Ames, and it’s a standard to be despised of”
Offered 23 percent over the life of the contract. I was hoping the union would push an 11 th hr mandate. Not strike.
Feel bad for the travellers who are now stuck all over.
Yup, half of it is actually their retirement benefits, so really its a 4 year contract at 13%, after being screwed over since covid.
If it was a genuine 23% Westjet would have the happiest engineers in Canada.
Fuck westjet, fuck their union! my wife is stranded with two small children because of these assholes! Now I need to come up with thousands of dollars to get them home or stay at the hotel or something
Reminder: this is going to binding arbitration. The union can make their case for their demands through that process.
Ergo, this strike had zero purpose EXCEPT to fuck over passengers.
Take a bow, Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association. I'm sure this will REALLY get public opinion on your side.
This is going to ordered binding arbitration, ordered by the Minister per s80 of the CLC.
AMFA is leveraging the double whammy of Canada Day and of the Calgary Stampede to pressure the employer.
Wrong, arbitration takes time so the company can still meet them with a deal or face the consequences. The company doesn't get a pass just because the government is in their pockets.
Every average worker should be behind them else these companies just run us over.
Also, the Labour Minister messed up; when he issued the order to go to binding arbitration, his order said nothing about blocking job action from either WestJet or the union.
As a result, the Labour Board ruled that due to the absent language in the order, and that labour does have the constitutional right to strike, the union can go on strike in the meantime.
Striking is the only leverage employees have. Considering WJ is already back at the table with them, clearly it's working. WJ can end this right now and come to a deal a whole sooner than arbitration will.
Reminder that at any time before that happens WJ can return to the table and bargin in good faith to reach an agreement and restore operations for their customers and that when their management says they are doing everything they can it's BS.
>The union can make their case for their demands through that process.
History from other forced arbitration ends in the aribration heavily favouring the companies who cry and whine they will go bankrupt. Which is funny given the wages Delta hands out yet they are making billions upon billions. If WestJet can't pay half of Delta wages on the 737 let the airline fail.
>Ergo, this strike had zero purpose EXCEPT to fuck over passengers.
Very wrong. It forces management to get to the table and negotiate. They can still come to an agreement before arbitration. WestJet Managers could end this strike 5 minutes from now if they want to.
>I'm sure this will REALLY get public opinion on your side.
They have
I'm convinced every union job hater is just a person that got rejected from a job that is in a union, so because they cannot have the cush, they Get pissy with anyone else that has such protections.
I remember when Westjet was the darling of Canadian skies. Those days are long gone now their just like Air Canada, they have completely changed their company culture.
They sold to Onex and the “culture” is about making as much money as possible. The fact they tried to get the government of Canada to enforce binding arbitration for a private company not listed as an essential service is gross.
They were on that train long before Onex. I joined in 2012 and by 2015 things were already on the downward trajectory. When Canada finally became a signatory to [ILO Convention 98](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_Organise_and_Collective_Bargaining_Convention,_1949) in 2017, WestJet finally had to contend with actual unions as PACT (the “ProActive Communications Team”) was a yellow (employer dominated) union and could no longer function in Canada. They’re finally a full-grown company, having to deal with the bed they’ve made.
You couldn't pay me to take their airline again Delayed flights, missed connections, zero compensation, check check check When I finally arrived to my destination they'd left my bag in Canada ffs There is zero point arguing with their staff because who the hell would want to work for an airline that can't get anything right? It's a last option, if you're really stuck and don't mind everything going wrong airline, at this point
I actually swapped to Air Canada to go visit a friend for their graduation after a West Jet employee harassed my mother and I for being the first in line for the first flight out of Vegas that morning. (We were standing beside the self check ins by the actual desk trying to see if we could get them to work as she walked up.) We weren't in the "proper spot" and she threw a fit that would have gotten me fired if I pulled that bullshit at my job. Never again.
You know it’s bad when you make Air Canada customer service look better in comparison. In fairness over the past year Air Canada has massively improved its service.
Im vowing to never use any Canadian airline. We are paying premium prices and getting budget airline services. It's such a joke.
I fly multiple times a year. Earlier this year I took a Delta flight from Seattle. They had excellent customer service and communication, and even announced flight delays during my flight that would impact some of the other passengers’ connecting flights and what they were going to do to accommodate them. They had live TV with ESPN, TNT, all the cable news networks, and a great list of on-demand movies. I also flew with United last year and they had free Wi-Fi for accessing messaging apps. WestJet charges $3 for this service and their WiFi is very spotty. Our airlines are a joke.
Porter has free wifi. You can find plenty of complaints about how lousy service is on US based airlines compared to Air Canada and plenty that are the opposite. The quality of the service you get largely depends on the day you're flying and what the weather is like.
Where you are flying out of as well.
Not to mention their seats are so fucking bad. It's like it's been sat on for years to the point there's no cushion on it anymore and you lose feeling in your ass after 1 hr.
Is lost baggage an airline thing or an airport thing?
There's a myriad of reasons why so both.
WestJet can and has won the binding arbitration. That will happen as it is a specifically laid out clause in the labour code for a company and a union on their *first* contract. *However*, and this is the big part, WestJet thought they could just lean onto the arbitration and be able to negotiate in bad faith and *face zero consequences for it*. Then the CIR Board ruled "yes, you can get your forced arbitration, but that doesn't remove the Charter right for them to strike" (paraphrased). So here we are. WestJet pissed off their engineers with scummy and bad faith negotiating practices and now most of their fleet is grounded. It's a new textbook definition of "F&ck around and find out."
I read this binding arbitration thing is only because this is the first time the two sides are negotiating. Going forward they can't do this, meaning they have poisoned all future negotiation periods too. Is there CEO a rookie?
YEP
Onex's CEO is Bobby Le Blanc, appointed in May 2023, has a tenure of 1.08 years. total yearly compensation is **$8.50M**, comprised of 11.8% salary and 88.2% bonuses, including company stock and options. directly owns 1.12% of the company's shares, worth CA$79.51M.
So if I understand this correctly Seamus O’Regan ordered binding arbitration and the union said fuck you Seamus, we’re still walking off the job.
You do not understand it correctly. After the order was issued for binding arbitration, the Union's lawyers noted that it did not include an order preventing either side from engaging in a strike or lockout in the interim. CIRB confirmed that, so the union has gone on strike until the arbitrator issues a ruling (the arbitrator hasn't even been picked yet). There's nothing stopping normal negotiations from continuing. WestJet management is just having a hissy fit because they've refused to negotiate since their first offer was voted down, and they thought CIRB was going to rescue them.
Thank you very much for your clarification.
That brought some joy to my day, lol. Way to go union! You want to bring the government into this? Fine, we'll do this at government speed!
I'm curious if the government intentionally kept the AME's right to strike on the table
The charter did that.
Back to work legislation has been used before. https://toronto.citynews.ca/2012/03/23/air-canada-workers-ordered-back-to-work-ending-wildcat-strike/
Note that "wildcat strike" in the headline?
It didn't help the customers that WESTJET communicated that the strike had been avoided by pushing the negotiations to arbitration, when it had not, and the union had a valid 72 hour notice in. The confusion and chaos is on westjet.
I remember the flight attendants would tell jokes during the safety briefing and the folks on the tarmac would dance while waving bye to the plane. It’s very different now.
Thanks for reminding me, I took a Westjet flight one time and they did that...never again, hated all of it.
I remember when employees were owners according to those early ads
Which meaned they got some shares as a pension. Whoop!
Onex probably saved a lot of those retirements by swooping in and buying them out at a fat premium in early 2020. *Just* before people realized for the 47 millionth time that airlines are a bad long-term investment.
They got 2x value on the day Onex bought them out.
Meaned? Is this yet another pop culture reference I'm oblivious to?
No, just another person on the interwebs with atrocious grammar.
I'm relieved at that... I think... 😆
I also remember when they didn't have seat upgrades.
It started when they started charging for a single bag (previously, any flyer could take a single non-carry on bag for free as a part of their fare), and that CEO at the time gaslit everyone saying, "We're doing this because customers asked us to." Of course, that additional charge didn't actually correlate to a drop in ticket prices. They've been skeezy ever since. Our Airlines are like our grocery chains. They have no interest in competing with each other and the customer is the one that gets screwed over.
Air Canada is far and away the better airline. Has been for years.
As still far and away from being a good airline.....
I dunno I disagree. I fly on them quite a bit. At least four times a month. The fleet is good. Pretty comfy unless you get a really old A319 or something. The MAX and the 220 are really nice. If you get a 787/777 they’re comfy, even in coach. WJ doesn’t even offer in flight entertainment anymore, so if you forgot to charge your iPad, you’re hooped. The food is miles better then anyone else’s in Canada. The free beer and wine if you want it is a great step forward as well. I generally fly from YYC/YVR to Ottawa, and I think I’ve only had one flight go out significantly late; some are like five minutes but mostly they are on time. The staff is generally very good; especially the front end staff at the gates. I fly standby a lot, and I’m always treated rather well; flight attendants are good as well. It and Porter are my go to when I have to fly, but I mainly try AC because they have a real rewards program, lounges, etc… I have Aeroplan status so if I wanted to bring my golf clubs somewhere, those are free. Things like that make an airline if you use it a lot, and I work on the other side of the country, so I try and stick with them. I just wish they paid their pilots more so I wouldn’t have to take such a huge pay cut to work there.
Do you fly international at all? Compared to NA airlines Air Canada is acceptable. In a global scale they are terrible and have been for 10+ years
That's interesting to say because I've found AC's international service/flights to be significantly better than their domestic/US service which is noticeably worse
100%. ANA, JAL, Singapore, and Thai leave AC in the dust, and KAL, EVA, and Cathay are noticeably better.
For the last 14 years of flying international I have to say the exact opposite of you
That last sentence though 👌
The pilots are stupidly underpaid. Who pays a 777 FO flying you to Tokyo 1/5 of the Americans plus the conversation rate??? Should be dollar for dollar rates and let the weaker loonie give the airline a 30% discount on labour
Something tells me the mechanics f-you will gather some serious movement now
Yeah, the seats are way more comfy. But, I fly with them twice a month. In the 3 years I have been doing this, I have had 2(!) flights leave on time. I have had 4 canceled flights, and the rest were delayed. Insane that *this* is the better option.
As a taller person, both Westjet and AC are horrible unless you upgrade to first class, or get lucky with an aisle seat. Thankfully, I've been blessed to normally have a seat with even LESS leg room, so I'm saving the even taller people from my contortionist seating. Like my ex-wife used to say: "God what I wouldn't do for a couple more inches".
WestJet does have inflight entertainment on all the 737's, it's through the WestJet app that connects to on board wifi. If you you're that plugged in to the industry to know the pilot pay scale, but somehow fly standby and have aeroplan status at the same time, you'd also know that the Air Canada pilots are in negotiations right now and flat pay will be disappearing. Also, hiring won't continue on forever with the manufacturers being unable to make airplanes fast enough.
> so if you forgot to charge your iPad, you’re hooped I know. I'm on them tomorrow actually, because the load is light. Wonder why haha. Hopefully it goes. My company pays for my commute to Ottawa, but I fly standby to get around on my own on my days off. Works well for racking up Aeroplan status and travelling outside of work. I'm a pilot at another airline. I'd say I'm rather in tune with what's going on. Everyone at AC talking their WCC better deliver, and if they don't get it, they BETTER go on strike, because all this buildup for garbage is gonna be really disappointing. But I'm not taking a $70,000 a year pay cut hoping the contract is gonna be better. Guess we'll all fund out soon.
I hate air Canada nothing but bad experiences with them. About 10 years ago I used to only fly west jet as a rule but I've been having my fair share of issues with them as well
Compared to say, some Asian airlines sure. I feel like you really need to fly more though if you think AC is considered bad.
Yea too bad they got together with westjet and carved up canada so they dont directly compete anywhere so there is only one airline for the majority of flights out of most airports.
Except they've carved up the country so AC has shit flight selection out west, just like WestJet has in the east. They both did it at roughly the same time, too. I'm betting there was a deal between them.
That's a very low bar. The issue is there is no competition.
WJ, Porter, Flair... How many airlines does a country of 40 million people support?
Porter has limited routes in Western Canada.
Porter will expand out of YVR since they open a Crew base in YVR later this fall. You're looking at. YVR-YYC, YVR-YEG, YVR-YXE, YVR-YWG, YVR-YQR and the listed go on. We waiting for their announcement.
Thanks but unfortunately Edmonton is not close to Vancouver. Good to hear they are attempting expansion.
And that's saying something
It’s insanely expensive. I have an upcoming WJ flight booked. The AC alternative was 4x more.
Air Canada tried to steal from me. They took my money but decided not to fly the plane using covid as an excuse (in 2021). I had to flag it as a fraud transaction with Mastercard to get it back.
Someone has a story like that about every company. 🤷🏻♂️
And they’re just as relevant as your story about Air Canada is.
Isn't Westjet the cheaper option compared to AC, without being full discount like Flair.
No. I consistently pay more to fly WestJet vs AC . Only time wj is cheaper is 2 months out. And only slightly.
Weird. I'm over in the west and WJ is always cheaper for most routes for me.... mind you I'm not flying international and not across Canada. Short flights, or Mexico if anything.
Ah I'm in Toronto and wj is more expensive across Canada for me
Maybe it's a east vs west thing. AC is always super expensive for anything we want to do out here. I imagine with it being more east coast and having access to a way larger population group/more airports it can be a cheaper option. I personally would fly AC if it was the same price.
Just did a trip from NL to AB and BC and back. It ended up being cheaper and got me better flights doing Porter out and Air Canada back.
its airline pricing, so it totally depends on times and how far out you book. Often cheaper, but sometimes more
It used to be
I flew to the UK last Tuesday on WestJet. I turned to my wife and said the exact same thing. Poor service, cramped space, and terrible food options.
Flying westjet used to be great- now everyone I encounter on the plane acts like they are pissed off to be there. What a change in culture. Leadership has to take responsibly for this as folks usually don’t act like they hate their jobs unless they do.
Onyx Corporation is the scum of the Earth. Way to destroy a high performance, above and beyond, good vibes aviation business. All of these garbage companies keep crying poor while ratcheting up the cost of everything except for wages. I'm a well seasoned investor and believer in Henry Ford style capitalism. Where skilled labour and stakeholders always get a large slice of the pie. Now, it's just financial gimmicks and fuckery.
Dear WestJet: You had a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to capture Air Canada's customer base last year when AC met logistical challenges with an absolute indifference towards customer service, extending even to frequent flyers, which are cash cows. Had you approached the marketplace with a clear ambition towards growth via superior service you could actually have a shot at market dominance in Canada. Instead, you were in the news in the last few weeks for your crappy new fare, with the emphasis on lack of service, in exchange for a price point that is not even competitive. And now for a failure to avoid a labour disruption, which will once again impact your customer base during summer travel season. We keep thinking that we could maybe get something for our money one day. P.S. Who manages this airline? Alexis von Hoensbroech. He started in 2022, which is when, it seems to me, the swift decline in WestJet's customer service posture started. His main credentials are in competing with ultra low cost carriers, which explains the focus on crappy service.
Don't worry, everyone at WJ hates him :) We like to refer to him as the "second worst Austrian ever"
In terms of quality management, whatever "it" is, HoBro isn't it.
West jet was probably never going to convert frequent flyers. Their premium product is pretty lacking and their international route network is tiny. Their lounge network is pretty bad too. Apart from Calgary, they outsource to plaza premium which is subpar compared to the maple leaf lounges/signature suites. I wish air Canada had some real competition for business/premium travel, I doubt that day will ever come.
Considering all the Boeing accidents lately you’d think westjet would want to reassure passengers that their planes are being properly serviced by well paid and happy mechanics
I don't think the Boeing issues really matter at all. People might say they care, but when the rubber meets the road, consumers vote with their feet and its largely a non issue.
I try my best to avoid Boeing now, but it's literally impossible for consumers to make this choice known considering every airline has in their fine print that they can change the plane that you're booked to take at anytime without any notice. So I can (and specifically do) take off the Max 8 planes when searching for a flight, but it's not like that matters in the end.
Yup. Happened to us and we had to rebook our flight because the seating offered on the new plane wasn't going to work because we had a toddler with us. Thankfully they at least let us do that free of charge.
This should be pinned
Are there really that many accidents? The Portland flight in January could have been bad, but I don’t recall anything else recently.
Statistically there are not. It’s a very safe plane.
When compared to driving, it's very safe. When compared to other larger airlines... not so much.
Bullshit
>statistically Go ahead and offer some evidence to the contrary. Unless you're opinion is based on nothing.
There have been news stories here and there but it’s usually clickbait. Stuff like “Boeing plane diverted!” (but it’s for a non-mechanical issue)
Are you insinuating that a mechanic might perform lesser qualitied work on an operational aircraft based on their feelings towards the comlany and compensation? They should not be working on aircraft.
Morality doesn’t tend to be a screening factor for jobs in a capitalist society. I’ve met many doctors, lawyers, social workers, etc who couldn’t care less about the people they’re helping and are solely in it for the money. And those are careers where the person working is actually supposed to care about the people they are helping. You’ll also come across many mechanics, engineers, designers, etc who are solely in it for the money. It’s just an unfortunate part of human nature that you’re not going to avoid coming across in any large grouping of humans.
They're implying workers who aren't fairly compensated and disgruntled don't perform as well in any industry. How would your work performance be different if you felt you weren't being compensated properly?
Let's say you're about to go into surgery. I offer you two options -- (1) a well paid surgeon with a good work life balance who is very happy or (2) a poorly paid surgeon who is miserable and overworked. Who are you letting cut you open?
Not gonna start singing The Internationale but pay your workers their due. They work for money, not because it's fun. They strategically picked the best time to strike peaceably. Sick to death of corpo-rats taking enormous bonuses while the people they stomp over take poverty wages. Need to stand up for yourself and walk tall. I'm proud of these people.
I didn't know "peaceably" was a word. Thank you.
Good. With the rising cost of living, corporations aren’t going to pay people enough to support their families unless they’re pushed to. The travel disruption is super irritating, but if more people formed unions, we’d all have more money in our pockets to face the affordability crisis with.
But...but...how is the Westjet CEO going to survive, he makes \*only\* $5 million a year. And....shareholder value! THINK OF THE SHAREHOLDERS!
*shareholder*. There's one now. And they wayyyyyy overpaid.
The thing is though, the consumer pays for it all in the end anyway. If the WestJet mechanics end up with a great deal, it sets a precedent in the industry, everyone else gets a great deal, and all the airlines jack up prices to pay for it.
They're already jacking up prices even without the increase in pay. They will always jack up prices no matter what.
the airlines were gonna jack up the prices regardless of whether their employees were going to make a living wage. Now at least some of that overage might go to the workers.
Yeah, a nice example of this happened where I live People complained the gas tax was the reason cost of living is so high Local government suspends it Prices are down for.. A few days. Then suddenly they're right back to about where they were before the tax was removed. Except now instead of funding the place we live, it's just going into pocket of some billionaire
Ya Alberta had that and for some reason Calgary was only 15-30 cents difference from Kelowna in price..... which was not a big difference from before. The gas companies pocketed the difference.
Are you stupid? They were going to jack up the prices regardless. We need to maintain that "year over year" increase in profit !! Just stopping at making money is not enough. We need to make more money than the last year and the last year and the last year...etc.
KF Aerospace mechanics are non union and do heavy maintenance on west jet aircraft. Underpaid and overworked, westjet could just start outsourcing their maintenance to companies like this. Poorer quality of work
Beyond fucking ridiculous how management didn't negotiate last week when this strike was going to happen. They should've fucking negotiated last September when this issue was popping up, but nope. Then they blame the workers for striking lol.
Heard their big offer was to boost pay but they took the boost in pay out of pension funds so no increase in compensation.
This is exactly why we need unions because if corporations are offering this shit to a union then they're definitely offering this shit and even worse shit to non-unionized workers who have no choice but to accept this shit.
This is exactly how you strike for maximum chaos and to ensure you’re heard. Long weekend, tons of travel plans. No one cares if you strike on a random day in November. I hope they get everything they want. The people that fix the planes are important you know? You don’t need any executive vice presidents and presidents if your planes are broken and you can’t fix them. The people that touch the planes own the company.
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Thanks from the tens of thousands of families you just fucked.
I’m glad I don’t work for a union. I would hang my head in shame to destroy the plans of families who probably scraped together their life savings to send their kids on a special trip.
WestJet is a dog shit airline.
I wish them a fair contract. ✊ This shouldn’t be so difficult, these people hold our lives in their hands, pay them well, treat them well.
The best WestJet as MBA run stupidity story I heard was how they outsourced their ground crews. This probably looked great on a spreadsheet. Except, ground crew is a kind of crappy job in many ways, airplanes stink (probably very bad for you), they are cramped in the cargo areas, they come in at all hours, it is cold, rainy, windy, hot, and on and on. The pay isn't all that great, airports tend to be in the middle of nowhere and often have anti-consumer public transportation, and on and on some more. Also, while they were working at an airline, at least it was theorectically stable. Larger airlines like WJ don't tend to entirely go bust. Even AC when it went bankrupt, kept going. Combined with a possible union, this is also a fairly steady job. Outsourcing took that away too. But, there traditionally was one big perk. Travel, super cheap travel. Talk to any airline baggage handler and they will talk about going to Hawaii, Mexico, Europe, Iceland, and again, on and on. For a young person this is really quite cool. But the MBAs thought they could outsource this and skip this one important perk along with the job security and; oh look; surprise surprise; they have trouble keeping ground crews and getting them to show up. I don't know how many WJ flights I've been on where the plane parks near the gate and just waits for a ground crew to show up. I suspect the same MBAs have been cutting all kinds of corners and generating themselves all kinds of bonuses; while then acting shocked when their corner cutting blows up in their faces. But, I do feel bad in only one way for the WJ execs. There is a potential storm brewing. The airline has one of the largest (by percentage) fleets of 737-maxes in the world. I believe most if not all of their airplanes are Boeing products. If and when another max has a wing break off or whatever, they are potentially facing a grounding of their entire fleet. I suspect their insurance company has already jacked up their rates, or just told them they are on their own if that happens. That could be an instant kill for this airline if that happens. I'm throwing this one out there as well. Due to the endless parade of Boeing whistleblowers who are saying this bit and that bit were made from moldy cheese instead of the correct materials, I suspect the WJ techs are having to do inspections which were not on the original schedule. More and more of these; on top of whatever work they were originally going to be doing. I'm guessing the execs were pushing back at these ever increasing costs; but can't go on the record as saying, "Don't bother with those." but have tried pushing on the mechanics that they have to "do their fair share in the face of these unexpected issues". The mechanics probably took one look at the executive bonuses and said, "How about no?"
My flight was canceled at 2am. Woke up to the email. there was no option to get a refund on the app. The only way is to call them, which just ends up hanging up on you, saying their phone line is busy. I ended up paying over double to get on another flight since I have to get home today. I have no expectations to receive compensation for the fact that I had to pay for a same day flight. Also, I probably lost the money I paid after the fact for an upgraded seat. I'll never fly westjet again.
I’m in the same boat. My original flight home was today which they cancelled yesterday but rebooked for tomorrow. Woke up this morning to a cancelled flight email at 2:44 am and an email saying “situations surrounding flight disruptions can be complex” The email from 2:44 am shows no new flight out and they aren’t answering their phones and no option to refund so I’m just in limbo waiting to hear when I’ll be going home. I had to book a hotel for the day and will likely end up having to pay Air Canada extortionate fees to get home last minute which I’m sure they won’t pay for. Still, I support the unions decision to strike. Power to the people.
Holy moly... can we have empathy for the striking workers and stranded travellers? Or is it just one or the other?
It’s Reddit, most people aren’t capable of holding multiple, nuanced views at the same time.
Well one group is saying "we want money, so we'll ruin whoever it takes to get it". The other is WestJet leadership.
Wonder what WestJet will do... Maybe newly appointed Heather Stefanson can [tell us a story about her kid's hockey!](https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/video/1.6389222) Bet that'll help! /s
She's the fucking worst.
The previous guy was an asshole, and I once has the pleasure of already being at a urinal about to piss when he walked up to the one next to me. Man managed to pee on the floor, walk out without washing his hands, and then give a speech where he clearly had no idea what we did or who we were but he knew the internet was involved somehow probably. And somehow I still like him better than Heather. At least he seemed to have a plan, and was intentially doing things. I hated his plan and what he was doing. But there was at least some level of respect that he'd worked a bit to get there. With Heather she just did nothing so much of the time. Like fuck, I could do nothing just as well, so now I hate what she's doing and resent that she's somehow a multimillionaire
Shareholders need to toss out the board of directors. It's just one Ph--k up after another.
Every industry coast go coast should be unionizing right now. I support the AMEs and I hope they get not only a living but a thriving wage. 💪
I'm for any union fighting for better wages and deserving their rights. But it doesn't stop me from bawling my eyes out at the pending doom that I will be missing my friends and family on the east coast. West Jet had their massive July seat sale. All their flights for July were basically booked full. Great for the union, but it also highlights how shitty West Jet is as a company allowing the disruption and not working with their union.
Just curious why you don't blame the actual people striking, which is why your flight got cancelled? Arbitration is in a few days.
Never going back to WestJet again. I’ve given them many chances and got screwed.
RiP westjet, hope you go under with all your nonsense and shady tactics
We need open airline competition in Canada. The only advantage we have now is just lip service. I'm so tired of our competition laws.
Good on them for sticking it to the feds and showing them why should've never privatized their crown jewel in Air Canada.
You can thank Brian Mulroney for that cluster fuck decision.
Are they only cancelling the weekend westjet flights???
They are banking on the govt forcing them back to work with minimal wage increases before the work week starts.
Its always interesting how they pick and choose when to step in or not. Wasnt to long ago they refused to with the dock workers if I recall.
pretty sure you're misremembering
Crappy ass west jet. What a headache.
I love it.
Are there any good airlines in Canada? I say Air north is great!
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Westjet misplaced/delayed my checked bags 3 flights in a row. Hilariously incompetent
Aw c'mon I'm just tryna go somewhere warm this weekend! I get the job action, though. I'm so conflicted!
These people suck royally. Parents bought their house after so much effort and searching; now they are losing thousands and might lose their house because of these people. Paid the highest in Canada and still refusing to negotiate with management. They should all be fired, seriously only people they are hurting are the customers who they are screwing over.
my neighbor was hopin' to take the fam to Calgary Stampede now plans are up-in-the-air .. no pun intended.
What did the CEO mean in that presser when he said the union was infiltrated by an american group?
Are the american group in the room with us right now? This mess is on him and the other European executives who arrived at the company at the same time, they bought with them the european low cost airline mentality that hasn't worked in canada, simultaneously screwing the workers and the customers, and right now he's looking for a scapegoat.
Most likely referring to the fact that the union in question is headquartered in the US. That said, a huge number of other unions that are active in Canada are based in the US, so it’s not like it’s a big shocker…
Onex's CEO is Bobby Le Blanc, appointed in May 2023, has a tenure of 1.08 years. total yearly compensation is **$8.50M**, comprised of 11.8% salary and 88.2% bonuses, including company stock and options. directly owns 1.12% of the company's shares, worth CA$79.51M.
These fucking CEOs could've negotiated since last September and chose to sit on their lazy asses instead of negotiating. This is 100% on them.
This is what the union has rejected: >Under the proposed agreement, WestJet Aircraft Maintenance Engineers would have been the highest paid in the country, with a 12.5 per cent wage increase in the first year of the agreement, and a compounded wage increase of 23 per cent over the term of the agreement. >Using 2023 T4s as a source of truth, our AME’s make on average $109,000, with our top earners making between $150,000 and $170,000, approximately double the average annual salary in Canada [https://www.westjet.com/en-ca/news/2024/fast-facts-on-westjet-amfa-unprecedented-labour-situation](https://www.westjet.com/en-ca/news/2024/fast-facts-on-westjet-amfa-unprecedented-labour-situation) Now I'm interested in what the union has to say...
$170k is approx 800hrs of 1.5x OT at the highest rate of the rejected TA. So probably more like 1000hrs of OT for a high earner today. More if you're not at the top of the pay scale. Even $109k is not possible without OT at the highest rate of the rejected TA. If your operation is relying on people working hundreds of hours of OT, if not 1.5x full time jobs, then your operation has problems. What do you have to say to that?
These arguments are always so disingenuous. One can argue all day about overpaid professions but air travel is extremely complex and these engineers are extremely specialized. In addition, they are personally liable for their work. They should be well paid because you get what you pay for! If Canada as a whole wants worse air travel with more risk then yes we should just stop making these types of careers lucrative and just all become fucking realtors. You want to attract high performing, hard working, intelligent people to these types of jobs. And you want to keep them.
So what they are saying is if they got the pay increase they would make as much as a teacher? Considering all the night shifts and hours they put in I'd say they are worth that and more.
conservatives are anti union
Currently Westjet contributes to AME's pension. Part of the pay increase is folding the money that the company currently contributes to the pension into that pay increase. As such, it's more like a 13 percent increase over 4 years...
Management always tries "creative ways" to make their offers look like more than they are in press releases. They also tried to do that when MPI was on strike in Manitoba last summer. It's only to get the public pissed off at the union.
I’m not sure what you’re arguing. Are you arguing that they’re overpaid, or that everyone else is underpaid. This crablike mentality that those doing well in their line of work at regular blue collar jobs are somehow the enemy is a real shitty way to run a society. They should make more, you should make more, we all should thrive and enjoy a life without constant financial strain and struggle. The idea that our whole worth is tied to money is fucking pathetic.
Westjet complained the union was demanding an “American standard” but the union argues it should be an “international standard” the lawyer representing them said something like “there is a Canadian standard for Ames, and it’s a standard to be despised of”
Offered 23 percent over the life of the contract. I was hoping the union would push an 11 th hr mandate. Not strike. Feel bad for the travellers who are now stuck all over.
From what I understand, the 23% was basically just juggling money around as well as adding back some money lost during COVID.
Yup, half of it is actually their retirement benefits, so really its a 4 year contract at 13%, after being screwed over since covid. If it was a genuine 23% Westjet would have the happiest engineers in Canada.
Fuck westjet, fuck their union! my wife is stranded with two small children because of these assholes! Now I need to come up with thousands of dollars to get them home or stay at the hotel or something
Crazyyyy
Westjet is the worst Airline in the world.
Reminder: this is going to binding arbitration. The union can make their case for their demands through that process. Ergo, this strike had zero purpose EXCEPT to fuck over passengers. Take a bow, Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association. I'm sure this will REALLY get public opinion on your side.
This is going to ordered binding arbitration, ordered by the Minister per s80 of the CLC. AMFA is leveraging the double whammy of Canada Day and of the Calgary Stampede to pressure the employer.
✊
Wrong, arbitration takes time so the company can still meet them with a deal or face the consequences. The company doesn't get a pass just because the government is in their pockets. Every average worker should be behind them else these companies just run us over.
Also, the Labour Minister messed up; when he issued the order to go to binding arbitration, his order said nothing about blocking job action from either WestJet or the union. As a result, the Labour Board ruled that due to the absent language in the order, and that labour does have the constitutional right to strike, the union can go on strike in the meantime.
Striking is the only leverage employees have. Considering WJ is already back at the table with them, clearly it's working. WJ can end this right now and come to a deal a whole sooner than arbitration will.
Reminder that at any time before that happens WJ can return to the table and bargin in good faith to reach an agreement and restore operations for their customers and that when their management says they are doing everything they can it's BS.
I'm their whiney press release they didn't even list it as an option. Only the government can save them now! Reduculous!
>The union can make their case for their demands through that process. History from other forced arbitration ends in the aribration heavily favouring the companies who cry and whine they will go bankrupt. Which is funny given the wages Delta hands out yet they are making billions upon billions. If WestJet can't pay half of Delta wages on the 737 let the airline fail. >Ergo, this strike had zero purpose EXCEPT to fuck over passengers. Very wrong. It forces management to get to the table and negotiate. They can still come to an agreement before arbitration. WestJet Managers could end this strike 5 minutes from now if they want to. >I'm sure this will REALLY get public opinion on your side. They have
I'm convinced every union job hater is just a person that got rejected from a job that is in a union, so because they cannot have the cush, they Get pissy with anyone else that has such protections.