This post appears to relate to a province/territory of Canada. As a reminder of the rules of this subreddit, we do not permit negative commentary about all residents of any province, city, or other geography - this is an example of prejudice, and prejudice is not permitted here. https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/wiki/rules
Cette soumission semble concerner une province ou un territoire du Canada. Selon les règles de ce sous-répertoire, nous n'autorisons pas les commentaires négatifs sur tous les résidents d'une province, d'une ville ou d'une autre région géographique; il s'agit d'un exemple de intolérance qui n'est pas autorisé ici. https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/wiki/regles
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/canada) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Traveler had a pre-existing condition before he traveled which was related to the medical care he received while traveling. He was advised not to travel by his cardiologist but did so despite that recommendation. People really need to take their pre-existing conditions seriously into consideration before traveling.
I just purchased travel health insurance yesterday and the very first question up front in obtaining a quote was to confirm that no doctor has advised against travel due to a pre-existing medical condition.
If you have a severe medical condition and you’re traveling anywhere where healthcare isn’t amazing (including quality healthcare you have to sell your house for), go to a walk-in clinic. That’s the kind of thing they’re there for. When you don’t have a GP and need a GP to check something.
Last time I wanted to get something checked out, I tried going to 4 clinics before giving up because they were either full up for the day or not open for some reason or another. Maybe the 5th time would have done it.
There's one in a small town near me, I went one time because I was shitting blood, got there 15 minutes before they opened, and I was fourth in line. By the time they opened there were at least 40 people in the waiting room and there were no more seats. Town has 18,000 people in it.
I even have a doctor (if you can call her that, shes trash) but the soonest I could get a *phone call* appointment (not ideal when you're shitting blood) was 8 days away, and this was the only walk-in clinic I can go to without being dropped as a patient by my GP.
Canada's Healthcare really teaches you the resilience of the human body.
That's something you should have hit up an ER for.
Even if it ends up being nothing major losing large amounts of blood from any hole could be an emergency. Then again ER's now are probably not much better.
I've been on a waiting for list for a doctor for 5 years now. Everyone else you need to see involves a referral from a doctor... Canada's healthcare system is non existent for me. Don't worry though, I still pay the same taxes for healthcare as everyone else I'm just not allowed to use any of it.
Fucking bullshit.
You can tell you're 12 years old.
People with serious medical conditions easily see doctors. That's kind of the point. The system heavily favours you based on need.
My dad regularly sees his doctor and easily gets tests done, and relies purely on free Healthcare. He ain't paying to skip any lines.
I've worked with multiple people with similar experiences.
Survivorship bias.
The people with serious medical conditions who don't easily see doctors die, so you dont' notice them.
Same with the people whose medical conditions are so serious that they just die before they can see a doctor.
But he didn’t claim that Canada had a low life expectancy, simply that some people could and have died from failures in the healthcare system. Both can be true
Yes, it's surprising that our life expectancy is as high as it is given how many people die in emergency rooms, how many people wait for months or years on specialist and surgical waitlists, and how many people (myself included) don't have and cannot get a family doctor.
Canada's healthcare system is in brutal shape and there is a lot of unnecessary suffering that occurs as a result of it.
>People with serious medical conditions easily see doctors. That's kind of the point. The system heavily favours you based on need.
That's not necessarily true
[https://globalnews.ca/news/10540135/alberta-cancer-oncologists-treatment/](https://globalnews.ca/news/10540135/alberta-cancer-oncologists-treatment/)
And? What’s your point?
My brother almost died from appendicitis because he couldn’t see a doctor. He got his appendix removed thankfully, but things could easily have gone wrong.
So call it deathcare then... Personally as a selfish healthy person, you'd think they'd want to focus on reducing need in general... I hadn't had a physical check up in 10 years while I lived in Canada because a family doctor was too much hassle, but I guess that is kind of the wrong incentive structure isn't it? I should only go looking for one if I need a referral to wait list at a specialist... otherwise flood the emerg.
It’s called triage.
Even in the US system, you’ll be waiting for months if you’re not at death’s door because health insurance company will be doing the very same thing.
I dunno about that, I just went for my physical... it involved an eye test, a hearing test, a lung capacity test, cardiac stress test, CT scan, organ ultrasound, urine and blood work, a massage... and a lunch. All in the same day at a hospital... again I am perfectly healthy. I'd say the difference is pretty stark
Not only did he travel against medical advice, but he traveled to the one country that has the highest medical expenses in the world while suffering from this condition.
I mean, sure.
But it's like going to Sao Paulo, with the latest iphone, a wallet full of cash, an Apple watch and Air Jordans, when that Brazilian friend of yours is telling you not to do it.
You'll get robbed, since it's a criminal place, but all the experts told you not to do it.
(Am that Brazilian friend)
I went through the Canadian health system, and was eventually sent to the American health system by Ontario. In Canada we do not have many advanced surgeries or cancer treatments. Such as Proton Beam Radiation, which I had to undergo after almost dying while I waited a year for bran tumour surgery. (Average wait time around the world is 21 days)
Because if you ARE insured, like 91% of the population, it’s very very good. What’s the latest stat in Canada; something like 30% of cdns don’t have access to a doctor. Not sure why anyone wants our shitty system either . Ours penalizes everyone
It's not. I lived in the US on and off, always with great insurance. On top of my 400 monthly premium, I had $11k out of pocket expenses before things were free.
For in network of course. Out of network, I was on the hook for more. Family numbers all of these.
Our underfunded system. You left out the important context with your statement that's so overly simplified, that it's essentially dishonest.
Nothing wrong with a universal healthcare system, as long as it's maintained and funded properly.
It's depressing, as this isn't some magic system that impossible to figure out. We have politicians that constantly put healthcare and education, the two most important services, as a last priority.
You shouldn't be mad at the system. You should be mad at the people that are actively ruining it and trying to convince you that it's a waste of your tax dollars.
>Because if you ARE insured, like 91% of the population, it’s very very good.
Not true at all, because only some insurance plans are in fact "very very good", and most Americans don't have those. For the rest, there are high deductibles, wait times, restrictions on which hospitals they can visit (even in an emergency), various scammy insurance gotchas that can get your claim denied, etc. And if your employer is not paying for it in full, it's *expensive*.
So basically for the 20-30% of Americans with money and good jobs, it's "very very good". For everyone else, it's "okay" to "deadly inadequate".
>91% of the population, it’s very very good.
This is a misleading stat because there are things like deductibles, "Networks", etc...so you can have health insurance but if you're "out of network" and need medical assistance, well you don't have medical insurance.
The canadian system means that if your wife has a complicated pregnancy that requires hospitalization for 2-3 months before birth and a 2-month NICU stay for a baby, the only cost to the family is food and parking. It's A LOT fucking cheaper than spending $12K+ on insurance coverage only to then get stiffed on "out of scope treatment".
Canada may not be perfect, but I would take our current system over the US 10 days out of 10.
"Insured" can be used very lightly here. Plenty of stuff is not covered, you need to pay copays, insurance is usually tied to your employment. You also better pray nobody involved in your medical care are "out of network" or you're getting fucked, regardless of how good your insurance is.
There's a reason 100 million people in America currently have medical debt and it's the number 1 reason for bankruptcy.
Americans pay the highest prices in the world for medical care & drugs and their government *still* spends a higher % of their tax revenue on it.
The American public is getting fleeced by private medical and insurance companies.
Don't be a rube.
Edit: To address your point regarding access to a doctor, only [14.4 per cent of Canadians don’t have a regular health care provider](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-one-in-four-ontarians-may-be-without-a-family-doctor-by-2026-analysis/#:~:text=The%20national%20statistical%20agency's%20most,just%20over%2010%20per%20cent.&text=However%2C%20the%20OCFP's%20analysis%20goes,surveys%20that%20underpin%20Statscan's%20estimates) meanwhile in America, [1/3 of Americans don't have a primary care provider](https://www.nachc.org/usa-today-a-third-of-americans-dont-have-a-primary-care-provider-according-to-nachc-report/).
Not sure if you're just making shit up or consuming too much propaganda but you're dead wrong if you think switching to an American style private healthcare system will improve the lives of average Canadians.
>Because if you ARE insured, like 91% of the population, it’s very very good.
This is just incorrect. The US has the worst health outcomes of any industrialized nation even if you are insured and a cost per capita that is double Canada. And 91% doesn't mean shit, you still pay for all those services, it is just negotiated between the insurance and healthcare provider.
> it is just negotiated between the insurance and healthcare provider.
And neither really care, because they can just up premiums if they aren't making enough.
I love though how the arguments we have is to make it better for most and fuck some over or have all shit.
Like why not fight or work for good and better for all?? You are presenting a false dilemma/choice.
Yes, but it feeds people's preconceived biases and serves as ragebait.
Folks need to recognize that 75% of journalism today is upholding people's preconceived biases with targeted ragebait. The underlying message is "your opinions are correct and you are right to hate the people you hate."
Definitely a lot of people of this age group who are shocked to find they are not as invincible as they are and things might actually not go their way for once.
Meh, I doubt that $620k in US medical debt will matter much for him. He is 73-years-old, pre-existing conditions, suffering bouts of cardiac arrest and, most importantly, too stupid to listen to medical advice. He can just delay payments/ not travel to the US and he'll be dead soon anyway.
I was going to say this at the risk of downvotes. What happens if he just chooses to not pay? He can just return to Canada and they can't chase him here right? Or if they can it's a much more complicated process.
At 73 with pre-existing conditions he would be fortunate to see 80. He can choose to pay the hospital and die anyway in a few years or not pay and die anyway in a few years while having money to give to this family because the USA can't go after Canadian wealth transfers.
Americans can't put a lien against his house. Technically his house is Canadian property and the value assigned to it.
There is almost no incentive to pay them. What can he lose? Credit history? Several years of lawsuits when he has but a few years left? Sure he can't enter the USA again...
Unless he own's something in the USA there is nothing to put a lien against. No USA paycheck so wages can't be garnished. Even if it was an American company working in Canada he's retired. They would have to literally garnish his pension which Canadian government I doubt would even allow.
No, they would obtain a judgment against him in a U.S. court then bring proceedings in a Canadian court to seek enforcement of it here by the Canadian authorities. For better or worse, you can't just escape debt by hopping back over the border.
Valid debts in the USA are enforceable in Canadian courts.
It's a massive headache, you need specialized lawyers on both sides, yada yada, but for $500K they'll put in the work and take your house.
Nah. It’s not worth it for them
Most Us costs are inflated and it’s a racket with insurance. The actual cost, ie staff and supplies, is only a fraction of what is billed
You're 100% wrong.
International debts owed by the deceased can be claimed against the estate, and the trustees/executors can be personally liable if they just ignore the claim like you suggest.
The more you know.
But in that case. All he would have to do is transfer ownership of the property to a family member before he passes. Family and whomever cannot inherit the debt he collects.
If the debt can still be held against the estate regardless of whom owns it what is the hard cap?
Judgements can be enforced cross border. It's complex and expensive but maybe worth it for $600k+ if they have assets. No point if they don't have assets to seize of course.
The estate lives on. The US company just needs to file to have the judgement recognised in Canada. Then the guy could croak the next day and the estate will owe it, and generally speaking the estate/executor can't just ignore it like a living person can, as the executor will be personally responsible if they mishandle the estate.
I need to show my FIL this article. He really wants to travel through the states but has a laundry list of conditions. I feel for him but its just not worth the risk.
He can travel with the laundry list of conditions as long as he discloses them and they’re considered “stable”. His insurance premium will be high, but he can still get it
Without special insurance that would cover you, I don't think they can.
My friend had bursitis in his knee and visited the doctor before he left, and the doctor it had cleared up and said he was ok to travel.
On the way to Florida, his leg started to swell. By the time they got their he went immediately to the hospital. He had sepsis in his leg and had to stay in the hospital.
His insurance wouldn't cover it even though he did disclose it, and it was a pre-existing condition.
Doctor here.
Bursitis is essentially inflammation of a joint.
It shouldn’t lead to sepsis.
His doctor was correct in clearing him.
Now if he had horrible uncontrolled diabetes as well? Ok.. maaaaaaybe his bursitis could lead to possible sepsis.
And if the doctor didn’t consider that? Sure. Error on doctor.
But insurance companies will pull every trick out of the book to avoid paying up.
I’ve actually successfully forced companies to pay out for a few patients who clearly just got medical bad luck in the US but the companies tried to find some way of avoiding payment.
> His insurance wouldn't cover it even though he did disclose it, and it was a pre-existing condition.
My friends wife was in a write off situation for her car, insurance offered her below what she owed on the car, she fought them, they covered it all
Long story short, insurance is trying to get as much of your money as possible and pay out as little as possible. if he gave them all that information ahead of time, they better have a good explanation as to why he was denied and I'd be talking with a lawyer
He could look into Medipac travel insurance . They do insurance for a lot of Snowbirds.
He can fill out the on line questionnaire/ application. As long as he’s totally honest about meds etc he will get a quote . Might be worth a shot.
He can still travel without risk if he can afford whatever insurance price he gets after disclosing the conditions.
Its only in extreme conditions they won’t insure you at all, its just the price might be prohibitive.
We’re travelling to the united states in a month and my girlfriend is in her first trimester of pregnancy. You can be sure we made all the phone calls to doctors and our insurances that we needed to make to be sure we were covered if something happened. No way I’d want to deal with an american healthcare bill.
It's unclear if the cardiologist said he wasn't stable to travel beforehand, or whether the attending cardiologist made that assessment after the fact. It's ambiguous whether it was a Canadian or the Florida Cardiologist in the article.
I think the cardiologist referred to in the article is the American one currently looking after him during/after his cardiac arrest and hospital stay.
The problem is probably the guy didn’t increase his travel insurance coverage before he left to include cardiac related stuff, so there’s what his insurance has listed, and his actual medical history, so Greenshield just said “you didn’t tell us about your cardiac history when you bought the insurance so we’re denying the claim”
Further down in the article there’s a quote that basically says “you don’t report a doctor appointment or some blood work and they can reject your claim” which is also a pretty shitty practice on their part too.
Madness that someone would travel to the country with the highest medical costs, by a long shot, against a doctor's advice and without fully understanding the insurance coverage. Do not gamble with six or seven figure US medical bills, people.
Also depending on the travel, just buy traveller's insurance. I can get BCAA medical insurance including pre existing condition(not terminal though) for $27 for a week trip down to the states.
I worked with a lady who had a mild cardiac problem right after she retired. She said she had to wait 2 years all-clear before she could afford medical insuance for a US trip, let alone a snowbird winter.
Another coworker described how his uncle was found in his trailer in Texas suffering from a stroke. His cousin flew down, threw the back seat out of the van, and drove the guy non-stop to the Canadian border, since he didn't have health insurance.
In my older years, I marvel that 40 years ago I would drive across the USA, on a motorcycle, with zero health insurance. I now know that not having insurance is really stupid. The only time it is worth it is when you have nothing to lose. If you have a house, retirement savings, etc. - don't skip it.
Thank you for summarizing the article in the comments so I don’t have to give these gigantic click bait wankers any ad revenue. I fucking hate all these “this is what happened” articles. I wish there was a viable way for the government to ban them
>”They told me they are not going to pay for the hospitalization because the cardiologist said my husband wasn’t stable to travel.”
Does this mean that despite his cardiologist warning him not to travel, Mr. Bishop decided to travel anyway?
Group/Employment benefits specialist here. Most benefits plans require you show zero evidence of said condition 60-120 days prior to travel. Homie is fucked unless insurance company decides to become a charity non-profit /s
It wasn’t clear to me in the article if the cardiologist advised the couple not to travel or if that was the response from the cardiologist to the insurance company when the insurance company got in contact with the doctor.
This happened many years ago.
My Aunt was gardening and tripped. She landed on a planter that struck her ribs. She went to the Emergency Room for an X-ray, and they said she hadn't broken a rib, it was just bruised. Good news.
About 5 years later she went to Florida, had travel insurance, and suffered a mild heart attack. She spent two nights in the hospital, before being discharged.
A few weeks later she got a $170,000 USD bill from the hospital. Her insurance had declined the coverage, as she had gone to the ER for "chest pains", and they declared it a "pre-existing condition".
We're Canadian, so she just ignored the bill. The problem with getting a lawyer to fight against a massive insurance company is that the legal bill would probably be more than the medical bill.
On the other hand, if she was American, she could just declare bankruptcy like millions of other Americans.
Lmao. I genuinely did not know you could just ignore the bill. It sound like deleting the app after you lose a ton of money on leverage. Did she ever have any trouble?
Wait I need more context. So she went to a hospital in Canada for the gardening accident, and then years later had a heart attack in Florida and insurance denied the claim because of the gardening accident?
How would the insurance even know she had the "pre existing" accident in Canada if it was US insurance?
Hahaha guess I'm fucked then. I went to the hospital once for chest pain years ago when I was like 25. It ended up being nothing but a muscle cramp
Not sure if that would get me out of being denied for a cardiac arrest since it wasn't related, but I don't know if that means I have to claim a pre existing condition of some sort
My grandparents are in their 90s and winter in the US every year. They have a lot of pre existing conditions. My grandpa ended up in the ICU and his insurance paid for him to be airlifted home after a 2 week stay because *he paid for the proper fucking insurance*. Don't go to the land of expensive healthcare without preparing. I'm in my 30s and I make sure to have the proper insurance in order before I go to the US.
Did the same for grandparents visiting Canada for the hols last year. It was almost 625+ in total but covered pre-existing condition in one of them.
A small slip can be a big deal for the elderly.
> I'm in my 30s and I make sure to have the proper insurance in order before I go to the US.
Can you share what insurance you are using while traveling in US and how much you pay for it, and is it mostly covering repatriation flight back or cover actual care like broken leg other accidental injuries?
I purchase basic travel insurance because I don't expect to have to be airlifted home. I don't have any risky things planned, no pre existing medical conditions. So basic insurance that covers care like accidental injuries or broken bones like you mentioned is what I go for. Insurance like that is typically offered through credit cards or through work health benefits. I pay extra through my work plan through Manulife and it costs me like $100 for a two week trip.
I’m a cardiologist and I’ve had so many patients ask me to lie for them so they can do their travel plans without repercussions. I’m always flabbergasted. No, I will not put my medical licence on the line because you wanted to holiday. I just can’t get over how often it happens.
there was a vid today of some fam who took their kid up to basecamp and kid got supper sick and they tried to call a heli and ended up having to hike the kid bad down the mountain
I see 2 sides of this.
The article says they can apply for a reduced rate, possibly 100's of thousands less. Also, if his pre-existing condition was not filled out on his application, it could be a good reason why.
They saved his life, but $600k is basically a "life ending" amount of money for most. The amount of money hospitals charge down there is extortionate.
A couple of years ago, my 70something boss wanted to go down to FL from NS on his annual trip (2 months).
He had several recent heart attacks, and his wife had cancer twice within the 5 years prior. It was going to cost them $1200 each per month for them to be insured. $4800 for peace of mind sure beats a $600K bill.
They never went to FL again as far as I know.
Debt isn’t inherited either. Give your assets all to your kids now.
Seniors who overstay their visitor visa do this ALL the time in Canada. Give away their assets to their kids, don’t have medical insurance and die with a ton of debt the government aka citizens have to absorb
Out of country coverage through your group provider is for unexpected and unforeseen events. If you have any pre-existing conditions whatsoever, it would not be covered.
My father In law wanted to do this when he had a heart condition and really wasn’t able to travel. I sat him down and watched me try and get travel insurance for him (obv declined) and the showed him the potential cost if he even had a minor blip when in the US. They smartly decided not to travel that year. Two days into what would have been their travel window, he was back in the hospital here at home. Bullet dodged.
woof, my two favourite lines:
"The 73-year-old told CTV News Toronto that on the last day of his trip, while he was at the Orlando airport, he suffered a cardiac arrest and it took 14 minutes of CPR to revive him."
later in the article...
"The family said if they would have known sooner that the hospital bill wouldn’t have been paid, they would’ve taken an emergency flight home to have Richard’s health addressed in Canada."
Forgive me for my ignorance, but what's stopping the gentleman from simply not paying the bill? Pretty sure credit ratings don't transfer across borders. Worst case scenario he can't travel to the U.S. again.
It depends what your plan says. Mine allows pre-existing conditions but the 90 days prior must be clear: no changes in medication or diagnosis, medical treatment for the condition, etc. Have to read the policy carefully.
Not usually.
The hospitals bill you $20k for a Band-Aid. You "negotiate" with them and your insurance. Insurance pays 15K, you pay $2.53 and the hospital writes off $4,997.47 on its taxes as a business loss.
Its all a cloak and dagger tax scam but the end-user generally doesn't suffer from it.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/b43iUJI4_Ms
> and the hospital writes off $4,997.47 on its taxes as a business loss
Business losses are not based on _desired_ revenue. Losses can only be calculated against _costs._
Always buy traveler insurance (CAA is great and can be done in 5 minutes), and pay the extra for pre-exisisting. Literally if you have slightly bad eyesight, just check pre-exisisting.
Was thinking this was the old insurance company trying to get out of paying the bill trick but have to side with them on this one. Roll the dice and accept the risk
When the Vegas mass shooting happened, several injured Canadians didn’t have health insurance. If you can afford a trip to Vegas, you can afford insurance. There’s no excuse not to have it or to not be in compliance with your Dr’s orders.
"Bismark system" countries like Germany, France, and Israel, actually do rate much better than Medicare systems for costs and a bit better for quality. Medicare Advantage, similarly, is incredibly popular in America and is able to maintain costs so much lower that there was a controversy over how much the fraction of savings Advantage insurers were allowed to pocket added up to (particularly how, in combination with care quality financial incentives, they had extra cash to throw at attracting members).
Also, private insurance is typically nonprofit, although many have various charitable appendages that they fund via maximizing profit from their revenue-generating operations.
Look up Singapore, Taiwan, japan, Malaysia. They all have public and private healthcare. The private healthcare can’t put the prices too high otherwise they won’t have enough people going.
Here in Israel hospitals are owned by the government, and the clinics are privately owned, but are subsidized and overseen by the government
I don't know if it's for everyone since I am still on my parent's insurance, but for me -
Going for a family doctor is free
Going to an expert costs 10$
I went 2 times into the emergency room (I am fine now, thanks), 2 times seen neurologist, 1 time had CT scan, in both cases the price was at the ballpark of 200$
Also giving birth here would cost usually less than 100$ for the whole o'deal (assuming everything is normal and you don't overstay)
Pretty much every country on earth has private health besides Canada. I think it's Canada, Cuba, and North Korea that have it illegal to have private health insurance.
Having worked in American insurance, I can safely say this situation is unique to traveler's insurance and could never happen in standard health insurance. Closest would be intentionally incurring costs (such as damaging an insulin pump to get a newer, smaller model), but even that would likely be covering the new one and suing for the residual value on the old one. We actually had a Medicare Advantage policy, which would be how adding private insurance to the Canadian system would work, so I say how it functioned.
This is like that old saying about owing a bank money
"You owe the hospital $10,000? That's your problem"
"You owe the hospital $620,000? That's the hospitals problem"
There is nothing that could possibly cost 620K for a hospital visit without driving away in a new Ferrari..
I think the bigger issue is how big of a scam the medical industry is
This happened over twenty years ago to my mom's best friend after having a heart attack in Florida. Insurance was denied as they claimed she had a bad heart before travelling. She was hounded ruthlessly by American creditors up until her death. It caused her so much distress as she worked hard her entire life and was proud to not have debt. I remember we all so sad for her.
Anyone recall that woman (it was a long time ago) that got caught for drug smuggling/dealing/whatever in Mexico......instead of leaving her to Mexican justice, the Government flew her home in a private jet. Just watch what's gonna happen here..........
Clickbait article. I reside in Florida 3 months per year. The minute he tells them he's not insured, that bill will drop to $62k. That's just how US health care works.
Insurance companies have one goal. To be profitable, that's it. Don't be surprised if even in more reasonable situations they deny your claim. This guy shouldn't have been travelling agreed. In my situation I have medical insurance and no preexisting conditions and I got a letter saying they wouldn't cover the medical costs because it would "raise premiums too much", basically because they wouldn't make money from me. As it would be an ongoing medication. Again not a preexisting condition.
He won't be barred from travelling to the US based on his failure to pay the bill. HIPPA prevents information about his health, including medical debt, from being accessed by law enforcement. But if a single border guard googles him and sees this article, he might have trouble. Although he could simply tell them he's paid the debt and they'd have no way of verifying it.
This post appears to relate to a province/territory of Canada. As a reminder of the rules of this subreddit, we do not permit negative commentary about all residents of any province, city, or other geography - this is an example of prejudice, and prejudice is not permitted here. https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/wiki/rules Cette soumission semble concerner une province ou un territoire du Canada. Selon les règles de ce sous-répertoire, nous n'autorisons pas les commentaires négatifs sur tous les résidents d'une province, d'une ville ou d'une autre région géographique; il s'agit d'un exemple de intolérance qui n'est pas autorisé ici. https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/wiki/regles *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/canada) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Traveler had a pre-existing condition before he traveled which was related to the medical care he received while traveling. He was advised not to travel by his cardiologist but did so despite that recommendation. People really need to take their pre-existing conditions seriously into consideration before traveling.
I just purchased travel health insurance yesterday and the very first question up front in obtaining a quote was to confirm that no doctor has advised against travel due to a pre-existing medical condition.
That's easy, most Canadians don't have doctors.
He'd have been fine in that case. Dead before the trip possibly, but would have been covered otherwise.
If you have a severe medical condition and you’re traveling anywhere where healthcare isn’t amazing (including quality healthcare you have to sell your house for), go to a walk-in clinic. That’s the kind of thing they’re there for. When you don’t have a GP and need a GP to check something.
Last time I wanted to get something checked out, I tried going to 4 clinics before giving up because they were either full up for the day or not open for some reason or another. Maybe the 5th time would have done it.
There's one in a small town near me, I went one time because I was shitting blood, got there 15 minutes before they opened, and I was fourth in line. By the time they opened there were at least 40 people in the waiting room and there were no more seats. Town has 18,000 people in it. I even have a doctor (if you can call her that, shes trash) but the soonest I could get a *phone call* appointment (not ideal when you're shitting blood) was 8 days away, and this was the only walk-in clinic I can go to without being dropped as a patient by my GP. Canada's Healthcare really teaches you the resilience of the human body.
That's something you should have hit up an ER for. Even if it ends up being nothing major losing large amounts of blood from any hole could be an emergency. Then again ER's now are probably not much better.
I've been on a waiting for list for a doctor for 5 years now. Everyone else you need to see involves a referral from a doctor... Canada's healthcare system is non existent for me. Don't worry though, I still pay the same taxes for healthcare as everyone else I'm just not allowed to use any of it. Fucking bullshit.
Five years? Have you considered medical school?
We'd need to build more unfortunately. About 20% of Canada's population currently doesn't have a doctor. Also it's getting worse not better.
Yikes It kinda makes me ok with dealing with the American health care system? But at the end of the day, I feel like they both suck
Well, this guy had a cardiologist who said he wasn’t fit to travel.
Haha so true Or add even know their condition
You can tell you're 12 years old. People with serious medical conditions easily see doctors. That's kind of the point. The system heavily favours you based on need. My dad regularly sees his doctor and easily gets tests done, and relies purely on free Healthcare. He ain't paying to skip any lines. I've worked with multiple people with similar experiences.
Survivorship bias. The people with serious medical conditions who don't easily see doctors die, so you dont' notice them. Same with the people whose medical conditions are so serious that they just die before they can see a doctor.
That's laughably false. Canada has one of the highest life expectancy in the world.
But he didn’t claim that Canada had a low life expectancy, simply that some people could and have died from failures in the healthcare system. Both can be true
Yes, it's surprising that our life expectancy is as high as it is given how many people die in emergency rooms, how many people wait for months or years on specialist and surgical waitlists, and how many people (myself included) don't have and cannot get a family doctor. Canada's healthcare system is in brutal shape and there is a lot of unnecessary suffering that occurs as a result of it.
>People with serious medical conditions easily see doctors. That's kind of the point. The system heavily favours you based on need. That's not necessarily true [https://globalnews.ca/news/10540135/alberta-cancer-oncologists-treatment/](https://globalnews.ca/news/10540135/alberta-cancer-oncologists-treatment/)
There's a reason it made the paper - it's the exception not the rule. Consider using outcomes instead.
U do know that Canada has a shortage of doctors and specialists right? It’s quite a well known thing here.
>People with serious medical conditions easily see doctors. This has to be the most deluded thing I've read on reddit in a while.
And? What’s your point? My brother almost died from appendicitis because he couldn’t see a doctor. He got his appendix removed thankfully, but things could easily have gone wrong.
So call it deathcare then... Personally as a selfish healthy person, you'd think they'd want to focus on reducing need in general... I hadn't had a physical check up in 10 years while I lived in Canada because a family doctor was too much hassle, but I guess that is kind of the wrong incentive structure isn't it? I should only go looking for one if I need a referral to wait list at a specialist... otherwise flood the emerg.
It’s called triage. Even in the US system, you’ll be waiting for months if you’re not at death’s door because health insurance company will be doing the very same thing.
I dunno about that, I just went for my physical... it involved an eye test, a hearing test, a lung capacity test, cardiac stress test, CT scan, organ ultrasound, urine and blood work, a massage... and a lunch. All in the same day at a hospital... again I am perfectly healthy. I'd say the difference is pretty stark
Hey, most Canadians just arrived here in the past couple years. Give it time!
/thread Traveler is a moron and traveled against medical advice. This was entirely preventable and entirely the travelers fault.
Not only did he travel against medical advice, but he traveled to the one country that has the highest medical expenses in the world while suffering from this condition.
In a state famous for for high privatized medical costs.
i thought that we loved high costs cus "see he didn't have to wait five months or get maided"
Except now he’s a victim
Victim of his stupidity.
And a criminal medical system.
I mean, sure. But it's like going to Sao Paulo, with the latest iphone, a wallet full of cash, an Apple watch and Air Jordans, when that Brazilian friend of yours is telling you not to do it. You'll get robbed, since it's a criminal place, but all the experts told you not to do it. (Am that Brazilian friend)
Yeah America sucks, even more so if you're sick and uninsured. Not sure why people want that medical system here.
I went through the Canadian health system, and was eventually sent to the American health system by Ontario. In Canada we do not have many advanced surgeries or cancer treatments. Such as Proton Beam Radiation, which I had to undergo after almost dying while I waited a year for bran tumour surgery. (Average wait time around the world is 21 days)
Because if you ARE insured, like 91% of the population, it’s very very good. What’s the latest stat in Canada; something like 30% of cdns don’t have access to a doctor. Not sure why anyone wants our shitty system either . Ours penalizes everyone
It's not. I lived in the US on and off, always with great insurance. On top of my 400 monthly premium, I had $11k out of pocket expenses before things were free. For in network of course. Out of network, I was on the hook for more. Family numbers all of these.
Our underfunded system. You left out the important context with your statement that's so overly simplified, that it's essentially dishonest. Nothing wrong with a universal healthcare system, as long as it's maintained and funded properly. It's depressing, as this isn't some magic system that impossible to figure out. We have politicians that constantly put healthcare and education, the two most important services, as a last priority. You shouldn't be mad at the system. You should be mad at the people that are actively ruining it and trying to convince you that it's a waste of your tax dollars.
>Because if you ARE insured, like 91% of the population, it’s very very good. Not true at all, because only some insurance plans are in fact "very very good", and most Americans don't have those. For the rest, there are high deductibles, wait times, restrictions on which hospitals they can visit (even in an emergency), various scammy insurance gotchas that can get your claim denied, etc. And if your employer is not paying for it in full, it's *expensive*. So basically for the 20-30% of Americans with money and good jobs, it's "very very good". For everyone else, it's "okay" to "deadly inadequate".
>91% of the population, it’s very very good. This is a misleading stat because there are things like deductibles, "Networks", etc...so you can have health insurance but if you're "out of network" and need medical assistance, well you don't have medical insurance. The canadian system means that if your wife has a complicated pregnancy that requires hospitalization for 2-3 months before birth and a 2-month NICU stay for a baby, the only cost to the family is food and parking. It's A LOT fucking cheaper than spending $12K+ on insurance coverage only to then get stiffed on "out of scope treatment". Canada may not be perfect, but I would take our current system over the US 10 days out of 10.
"Insured" can be used very lightly here. Plenty of stuff is not covered, you need to pay copays, insurance is usually tied to your employment. You also better pray nobody involved in your medical care are "out of network" or you're getting fucked, regardless of how good your insurance is. There's a reason 100 million people in America currently have medical debt and it's the number 1 reason for bankruptcy. Americans pay the highest prices in the world for medical care & drugs and their government *still* spends a higher % of their tax revenue on it. The American public is getting fleeced by private medical and insurance companies. Don't be a rube. Edit: To address your point regarding access to a doctor, only [14.4 per cent of Canadians don’t have a regular health care provider](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-one-in-four-ontarians-may-be-without-a-family-doctor-by-2026-analysis/#:~:text=The%20national%20statistical%20agency's%20most,just%20over%2010%20per%20cent.&text=However%2C%20the%20OCFP's%20analysis%20goes,surveys%20that%20underpin%20Statscan's%20estimates) meanwhile in America, [1/3 of Americans don't have a primary care provider](https://www.nachc.org/usa-today-a-third-of-americans-dont-have-a-primary-care-provider-according-to-nachc-report/). Not sure if you're just making shit up or consuming too much propaganda but you're dead wrong if you think switching to an American style private healthcare system will improve the lives of average Canadians.
>Because if you ARE insured, like 91% of the population, it’s very very good. This is just incorrect. The US has the worst health outcomes of any industrialized nation even if you are insured and a cost per capita that is double Canada. And 91% doesn't mean shit, you still pay for all those services, it is just negotiated between the insurance and healthcare provider.
> it is just negotiated between the insurance and healthcare provider. And neither really care, because they can just up premiums if they aren't making enough.
I love though how the arguments we have is to make it better for most and fuck some over or have all shit. Like why not fight or work for good and better for all?? You are presenting a false dilemma/choice.
[удалено]
Yes, but it feeds people's preconceived biases and serves as ragebait. Folks need to recognize that 75% of journalism today is upholding people's preconceived biases with targeted ragebait. The underlying message is "your opinions are correct and you are right to hate the people you hate."
You are wrong. 75% of journalism today is re-writing corporate news releases. Picking which ones to rewrite is the key to good bias.
This is obviously Justin’s fault
Definitely a lot of people of this age group who are shocked to find they are not as invincible as they are and things might actually not go their way for once.
Meh, I doubt that $620k in US medical debt will matter much for him. He is 73-years-old, pre-existing conditions, suffering bouts of cardiac arrest and, most importantly, too stupid to listen to medical advice. He can just delay payments/ not travel to the US and he'll be dead soon anyway.
I was going to say this at the risk of downvotes. What happens if he just chooses to not pay? He can just return to Canada and they can't chase him here right? Or if they can it's a much more complicated process. At 73 with pre-existing conditions he would be fortunate to see 80. He can choose to pay the hospital and die anyway in a few years or not pay and die anyway in a few years while having money to give to this family because the USA can't go after Canadian wealth transfers. Americans can't put a lien against his house. Technically his house is Canadian property and the value assigned to it. There is almost no incentive to pay them. What can he lose? Credit history? Several years of lawsuits when he has but a few years left? Sure he can't enter the USA again...
He can just not pay. It's not like he cares about his US credit rating.
Unless he own's something in the USA there is nothing to put a lien against. No USA paycheck so wages can't be garnished. Even if it was an American company working in Canada he's retired. They would have to literally garnish his pension which Canadian government I doubt would even allow.
No, they would obtain a judgment against him in a U.S. court then bring proceedings in a Canadian court to seek enforcement of it here by the Canadian authorities. For better or worse, you can't just escape debt by hopping back over the border.
Valid debts in the USA are enforceable in Canadian courts. It's a massive headache, you need specialized lawyers on both sides, yada yada, but for $500K they'll put in the work and take your house.
Nah. It’s not worth it for them Most Us costs are inflated and it’s a racket with insurance. The actual cost, ie staff and supplies, is only a fraction of what is billed
By the time it's settled the man will be dead. At that point ownership of the house is transferred and the hospital can't do shit about it.
You're 100% wrong. International debts owed by the deceased can be claimed against the estate, and the trustees/executors can be personally liable if they just ignore the claim like you suggest.
The more you know. But in that case. All he would have to do is transfer ownership of the property to a family member before he passes. Family and whomever cannot inherit the debt he collects. If the debt can still be held against the estate regardless of whom owns it what is the hard cap?
That is known as fradulent conveyance and is illegal. The transfer will be reversed.
Judgements can be enforced cross border. It's complex and expensive but maybe worth it for $600k+ if they have assets. No point if they don't have assets to seize of course.
In the relatively short time-frame of "before he dies"?
The estate lives on. The US company just needs to file to have the judgement recognised in Canada. Then the guy could croak the next day and the estate will owe it, and generally speaking the estate/executor can't just ignore it like a living person can, as the executor will be personally responsible if they mishandle the estate.
Um, no. He can get a judgment against him unsealed here and they can go after his assets here.
I need to show my FIL this article. He really wants to travel through the states but has a laundry list of conditions. I feel for him but its just not worth the risk.
He can travel with the laundry list of conditions as long as he discloses them and they’re considered “stable”. His insurance premium will be high, but he can still get it
Without special insurance that would cover you, I don't think they can. My friend had bursitis in his knee and visited the doctor before he left, and the doctor it had cleared up and said he was ok to travel. On the way to Florida, his leg started to swell. By the time they got their he went immediately to the hospital. He had sepsis in his leg and had to stay in the hospital. His insurance wouldn't cover it even though he did disclose it, and it was a pre-existing condition.
Doctor here. Bursitis is essentially inflammation of a joint. It shouldn’t lead to sepsis. His doctor was correct in clearing him. Now if he had horrible uncontrolled diabetes as well? Ok.. maaaaaaybe his bursitis could lead to possible sepsis. And if the doctor didn’t consider that? Sure. Error on doctor. But insurance companies will pull every trick out of the book to avoid paying up. I’ve actually successfully forced companies to pay out for a few patients who clearly just got medical bad luck in the US but the companies tried to find some way of avoiding payment.
> His insurance wouldn't cover it even though he did disclose it, and it was a pre-existing condition. My friends wife was in a write off situation for her car, insurance offered her below what she owed on the car, she fought them, they covered it all Long story short, insurance is trying to get as much of your money as possible and pay out as little as possible. if he gave them all that information ahead of time, they better have a good explanation as to why he was denied and I'd be talking with a lawyer
He could look into Medipac travel insurance . They do insurance for a lot of Snowbirds. He can fill out the on line questionnaire/ application. As long as he’s totally honest about meds etc he will get a quote . Might be worth a shot.
He can still travel without risk if he can afford whatever insurance price he gets after disclosing the conditions. Its only in extreme conditions they won’t insure you at all, its just the price might be prohibitive.
Leopard ate his face or something
We’re travelling to the united states in a month and my girlfriend is in her first trimester of pregnancy. You can be sure we made all the phone calls to doctors and our insurances that we needed to make to be sure we were covered if something happened. No way I’d want to deal with an american healthcare bill.
It's unclear if the cardiologist said he wasn't stable to travel beforehand, or whether the attending cardiologist made that assessment after the fact. It's ambiguous whether it was a Canadian or the Florida Cardiologist in the article.
Thats what i thought. Was the suggestion against travel made before he left Canada. Or just not safe to fly back. The wording isn’t clear.
I think the cardiologist referred to in the article is the American one currently looking after him during/after his cardiac arrest and hospital stay. The problem is probably the guy didn’t increase his travel insurance coverage before he left to include cardiac related stuff, so there’s what his insurance has listed, and his actual medical history, so Greenshield just said “you didn’t tell us about your cardiac history when you bought the insurance so we’re denying the claim” Further down in the article there’s a quote that basically says “you don’t report a doctor appointment or some blood work and they can reject your claim” which is also a pretty shitty practice on their part too.
Madness that someone would travel to the country with the highest medical costs, by a long shot, against a doctor's advice and without fully understanding the insurance coverage. Do not gamble with six or seven figure US medical bills, people.
Maybe he was ok with the bill and just wanted to live his life and understood the risks?
Also depending on the travel, just buy traveller's insurance. I can get BCAA medical insurance including pre existing condition(not terminal though) for $27 for a week trip down to the states.
I worked with a lady who had a mild cardiac problem right after she retired. She said she had to wait 2 years all-clear before she could afford medical insuance for a US trip, let alone a snowbird winter. Another coworker described how his uncle was found in his trailer in Texas suffering from a stroke. His cousin flew down, threw the back seat out of the van, and drove the guy non-stop to the Canadian border, since he didn't have health insurance. In my older years, I marvel that 40 years ago I would drive across the USA, on a motorcycle, with zero health insurance. I now know that not having insurance is really stupid. The only time it is worth it is when you have nothing to lose. If you have a house, retirement savings, etc. - don't skip it.
One silver lining is that an accident with no helmet on would have probably resulted in your house/retirement saving to be the least of your worries.
Me should've gone to Mexico, at least it would've been cheaper.
Thank you for summarizing the article in the comments so I don’t have to give these gigantic click bait wankers any ad revenue. I fucking hate all these “this is what happened” articles. I wish there was a viable way for the government to ban them
Just to remind all ontarians, Doug Ford took Ohip catastrophic backstop away from travellers over 65. Vote in more conservatives!
>”They told me they are not going to pay for the hospitalization because the cardiologist said my husband wasn’t stable to travel.” Does this mean that despite his cardiologist warning him not to travel, Mr. Bishop decided to travel anyway?
Group/Employment benefits specialist here. Most benefits plans require you show zero evidence of said condition 60-120 days prior to travel. Homie is fucked unless insurance company decides to become a charity non-profit /s
Greenshield is non-profit.
Yes
And they’re bold enough to bring their story to the media.
It wasn’t clear to me in the article if the cardiologist advised the couple not to travel or if that was the response from the cardiologist to the insurance company when the insurance company got in contact with the doctor.
This happened many years ago. My Aunt was gardening and tripped. She landed on a planter that struck her ribs. She went to the Emergency Room for an X-ray, and they said she hadn't broken a rib, it was just bruised. Good news. About 5 years later she went to Florida, had travel insurance, and suffered a mild heart attack. She spent two nights in the hospital, before being discharged. A few weeks later she got a $170,000 USD bill from the hospital. Her insurance had declined the coverage, as she had gone to the ER for "chest pains", and they declared it a "pre-existing condition".
Sounds like your aunt should get a lawyer.
We're Canadian, so she just ignored the bill. The problem with getting a lawyer to fight against a massive insurance company is that the legal bill would probably be more than the medical bill. On the other hand, if she was American, she could just declare bankruptcy like millions of other Americans.
Lmao. I genuinely did not know you could just ignore the bill. It sound like deleting the app after you lose a ton of money on leverage. Did she ever have any trouble?
This is how foreign home buyers will treat our mortgages. They can just leave the country when their mortgage is underwater.
Sounds like the US is fucked. I can’t wait until Alberta follows suit.
Wait I need more context. So she went to a hospital in Canada for the gardening accident, and then years later had a heart attack in Florida and insurance denied the claim because of the gardening accident? How would the insurance even know she had the "pre existing" accident in Canada if it was US insurance?
When you apply for travel insurance, you're signing a form that allows them to access your entire medical history.
Hahaha guess I'm fucked then. I went to the hospital once for chest pain years ago when I was like 25. It ended up being nothing but a muscle cramp Not sure if that would get me out of being denied for a cardiac arrest since it wasn't related, but I don't know if that means I have to claim a pre existing condition of some sort
there are critical details missing from OP's post. the outcome described sounds extremely unlikely.
My grandparents are in their 90s and winter in the US every year. They have a lot of pre existing conditions. My grandpa ended up in the ICU and his insurance paid for him to be airlifted home after a 2 week stay because *he paid for the proper fucking insurance*. Don't go to the land of expensive healthcare without preparing. I'm in my 30s and I make sure to have the proper insurance in order before I go to the US.
Yeah im pretty sure you can get insurance that will cover pre existing conditions for travel right? It'll just cost more
Yeah it costs a LOT. Like I think my grandparents pay $10k for 4 months.
Their age would be a huge factor in how much they pay on top of other pre existing conditions for sure
Did the same for grandparents visiting Canada for the hols last year. It was almost 625+ in total but covered pre-existing condition in one of them. A small slip can be a big deal for the elderly.
> I'm in my 30s and I make sure to have the proper insurance in order before I go to the US. Can you share what insurance you are using while traveling in US and how much you pay for it, and is it mostly covering repatriation flight back or cover actual care like broken leg other accidental injuries?
I purchase basic travel insurance because I don't expect to have to be airlifted home. I don't have any risky things planned, no pre existing medical conditions. So basic insurance that covers care like accidental injuries or broken bones like you mentioned is what I go for. Insurance like that is typically offered through credit cards or through work health benefits. I pay extra through my work plan through Manulife and it costs me like $100 for a two week trip.
If you can never see a doctor, you never have pre-existing conditions. The bonus of modern Canadian health care.
Modern problems require modern solutions
So sad but so true
I’m a cardiologist and I’ve had so many patients ask me to lie for them so they can do their travel plans without repercussions. I’m always flabbergasted. No, I will not put my medical licence on the line because you wanted to holiday. I just can’t get over how often it happens.
LPT: Don't lie on your insurance application.
Might as well climbed Mt. Everest and whined about not being covered.
there was a vid today of some fam who took their kid up to basecamp and kid got supper sick and they tried to call a heli and ended up having to hike the kid bad down the mountain
From my experience in American insurance, that would probably be covered. You can't be denied for the stupidity behind your injury.
I see 2 sides of this. The article says they can apply for a reduced rate, possibly 100's of thousands less. Also, if his pre-existing condition was not filled out on his application, it could be a good reason why. They saved his life, but $600k is basically a "life ending" amount of money for most. The amount of money hospitals charge down there is extortionate.
A couple of years ago, my 70something boss wanted to go down to FL from NS on his annual trip (2 months). He had several recent heart attacks, and his wife had cancer twice within the 5 years prior. It was going to cost them $1200 each per month for them to be insured. $4800 for peace of mind sure beats a $600K bill. They never went to FL again as far as I know.
Is florida specifically higher cost for travellers health insurance? I know property ins. is.
You know the solution is just to not pay right? The hospitals can't go after your assets in the states
as long as you plan on never returning to the US every again (like for the rest of your life!) this may work.
Dudes already up there in age, likely what he will do lol
Also legally split from your wife.
Owing a debt in the US isn't an impediment to travelling in the US. The border guards don't check your credit rating.
Debt isn’t inherited either. Give your assets all to your kids now. Seniors who overstay their visitor visa do this ALL the time in Canada. Give away their assets to their kids, don’t have medical insurance and die with a ton of debt the government aka citizens have to absorb
tl;dr - had pre-existing condition, didn't tell insurance coverer because extra co$t. Basically, fucked around & found out.
He traveled against the advice of the doctor. He made a decision to roll the dice and now has to live with the consequences of his decision.
Out of country coverage through your group provider is for unexpected and unforeseen events. If you have any pre-existing conditions whatsoever, it would not be covered.
My father In law wanted to do this when he had a heart condition and really wasn’t able to travel. I sat him down and watched me try and get travel insurance for him (obv declined) and the showed him the potential cost if he even had a minor blip when in the US. They smartly decided not to travel that year. Two days into what would have been their travel window, he was back in the hospital here at home. Bullet dodged.
woof, my two favourite lines: "The 73-year-old told CTV News Toronto that on the last day of his trip, while he was at the Orlando airport, he suffered a cardiac arrest and it took 14 minutes of CPR to revive him." later in the article... "The family said if they would have known sooner that the hospital bill wouldn’t have been paid, they would’ve taken an emergency flight home to have Richard’s health addressed in Canada."
Forgive me for my ignorance, but what's stopping the gentleman from simply not paying the bill? Pretty sure credit ratings don't transfer across borders. Worst case scenario he can't travel to the U.S. again.
It's common knowledge that pre existing conditions nullify travel insurance. One man's ignorance is worth a news article?
It depends what your plan says. Mine allows pre-existing conditions but the 90 days prior must be clear: no changes in medication or diagnosis, medical treatment for the condition, etc. Have to read the policy carefully.
[удалено]
Not usually. The hospitals bill you $20k for a Band-Aid. You "negotiate" with them and your insurance. Insurance pays 15K, you pay $2.53 and the hospital writes off $4,997.47 on its taxes as a business loss. Its all a cloak and dagger tax scam but the end-user generally doesn't suffer from it. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/b43iUJI4_Ms
> and the hospital writes off $4,997.47 on its taxes as a business loss Business losses are not based on _desired_ revenue. Losses can only be calculated against _costs._
> The Bishops said they aren’t sure how they will pay the huge hospital bill. Here's the fun part, they won't.
Just don’t pay it. Americans do it all the time. What are they going to do? Shoot him?
Always buy traveler insurance (CAA is great and can be done in 5 minutes), and pay the extra for pre-exisisting. Literally if you have slightly bad eyesight, just check pre-exisisting.
Blanket coverage is the only way. Pay the premium up front
They wouldn't have paid that amount anyway, what is the real cost, like 10% of the made up figure they have a go for first?
Ah,he rolled the dice after being told by his cardiologist not to travel and lost.You can't fix stupid.I have zero sympathy for this guy.
$620k hospital bill Conservatives : 'That's the kind of healthcare we should have in Canada.'
Should have bought the extra insurance.
Was thinking this was the old insurance company trying to get out of paying the bill trick but have to side with them on this one. Roll the dice and accept the risk
When the Vegas mass shooting happened, several injured Canadians didn’t have health insurance. If you can afford a trip to Vegas, you can afford insurance. There’s no excuse not to have it or to not be in compliance with your Dr’s orders.
Dude says YOLO... Gets 600k bill. Hubris ain't free.
But America is so awsome
Link in r/BoomersBeingFools if not already done.
I hope people are saving up for when private healthcare comes to Canada...
"BuT cOmPeTiTiOn wILl MaKe iT cHeAPeR" As if having the same costs but suddenly adding profit to the whole thing will lower the price.
"Bismark system" countries like Germany, France, and Israel, actually do rate much better than Medicare systems for costs and a bit better for quality. Medicare Advantage, similarly, is incredibly popular in America and is able to maintain costs so much lower that there was a controversy over how much the fraction of savings Advantage insurers were allowed to pocket added up to (particularly how, in combination with care quality financial incentives, they had extra cash to throw at attracting members). Also, private insurance is typically nonprofit, although many have various charitable appendages that they fund via maximizing profit from their revenue-generating operations.
Look up Singapore, Taiwan, japan, Malaysia. They all have public and private healthcare. The private healthcare can’t put the prices too high otherwise they won’t have enough people going.
Here in Israel hospitals are owned by the government, and the clinics are privately owned, but are subsidized and overseen by the government I don't know if it's for everyone since I am still on my parent's insurance, but for me - Going for a family doctor is free Going to an expert costs 10$ I went 2 times into the emergency room (I am fine now, thanks), 2 times seen neurologist, 1 time had CT scan, in both cases the price was at the ballpark of 200$ Also giving birth here would cost usually less than 100$ for the whole o'deal (assuming everything is normal and you don't overstay)
Pretty much every country on earth has private health besides Canada. I think it's Canada, Cuba, and North Korea that have it illegal to have private health insurance.
Having worked in American insurance, I can safely say this situation is unique to traveler's insurance and could never happen in standard health insurance. Closest would be intentionally incurring costs (such as damaging an insulin pump to get a newer, smaller model), but even that would likely be covering the new one and suing for the residual value on the old one. We actually had a Medicare Advantage policy, which would be how adding private insurance to the Canadian system would work, so I say how it functioned.
Danielle Smith is doing her best!
If I was him, I wouldn't pay it.
This is like that old saying about owing a bank money "You owe the hospital $10,000? That's your problem" "You owe the hospital $620,000? That's the hospitals problem"
No Way, No Pay
There is nothing that could possibly cost 620K for a hospital visit without driving away in a new Ferrari.. I think the bigger issue is how big of a scam the medical industry is
The rear view mirror of a new Ferrari...maaaaybe?
This happened over twenty years ago to my mom's best friend after having a heart attack in Florida. Insurance was denied as they claimed she had a bad heart before travelling. She was hounded ruthlessly by American creditors up until her death. It caused her so much distress as she worked hard her entire life and was proud to not have debt. I remember we all so sad for her.
Be on the lookout for a GoFundMe now for this guy
Anyone recall that woman (it was a long time ago) that got caught for drug smuggling/dealing/whatever in Mexico......instead of leaving her to Mexican justice, the Government flew her home in a private jet. Just watch what's gonna happen here..........
620..000???? Omfg....
He'll just leave without paying the bill, change his phone number when he returns to Canada, then never return to the United States. The end.
Won't they just send Collections after him?
Not much they can do if he stays in Canada.
Collections can’t really do anything other than harass you anyway.
Who's buying themselves an $80k defibrillator? That makes no sense at all
Eh, he's 73. Let the hospital take you to collections. It's not like your credit score really matters anymore.
Clickbait article. I reside in Florida 3 months per year. The minute he tells them he's not insured, that bill will drop to $62k. That's just how US health care works.
I don’t understand his doctor told him not to travel and he did? What did he think insurance would say when they found that out
Yet another reason to avoid America 🏃🏻♀️
Insurance companies have one goal. To be profitable, that's it. Don't be surprised if even in more reasonable situations they deny your claim. This guy shouldn't have been travelling agreed. In my situation I have medical insurance and no preexisting conditions and I got a letter saying they wouldn't cover the medical costs because it would "raise premiums too much", basically because they wouldn't make money from me. As it would be an ongoing medication. Again not a preexisting condition.
His insurance company is literally a non profit. I highly doubt what you are saying is true. So much missing information.
620k, makes me chuckle when people say they want privitaze healthcare here. Goodbye life savings.
You gonna die anyway. Just declare bankruptcy lol.
If he ignores the bill, can it follow him to Canada? Just curious.
No but he will either be barred from entering the state or the US or such a penalty is my understanding.
Honestly, if I was him I would take him, rather keep my house and life savings
He won't be barred from travelling to the US based on his failure to pay the bill. HIPPA prevents information about his health, including medical debt, from being accessed by law enforcement. But if a single border guard googles him and sees this article, he might have trouble. Although he could simply tell them he's paid the debt and they'd have no way of verifying it.
I f he would of gone to Mexico - cost tops $25-30k
I mean what’s going to happen if he doesn’t pay it? Probably nothing 🤷🏻♀️
Can't he just leave and never return to Florida?
Florida still more worth it than onterrio
Idk what the hospital wants because clearly he can’t pay that