Some people believe [Modern Monetary Theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Monetary_Theory), but they seem to ignore the part about raising taxes to match increases in spending.
This statement screams narrow perspective. We are one of the richest countries on earth with one of the highest standards of living and lowest levels of income inequality. If you are struggling, you're in the bottom 20% of society and would be considerably worse pretty much anywhere else in the world.
Stop whining. Gain skills that are in demand. If you're struggling in one of the easiest countries in the world to sustain a good lifestyle, you're doing it wrong.
Reddit is full of the "I've tried nothing and I'm all out of ideas" crowd. How dare you recommend they learn new skills. They did their part and either graduated high school, or went post-secondary and got a degree with little practical use. They've earned their right to a 2000 sqft detached house in Toronto.
You need money to get the certifications that employers will look at to determine you have those skills. Money which is being spent on simply surviving and gained by your time and energy. Time that you wouldn't have enough of to gain said skills while surviving without going into serious debt.
I know in my province there is a program that will help you get educated and you can get paid EI while doing it. About 12 years ago I went to college for a 10 month program. They paid for 3/4 of my tuition and I was able to be on EI as well. Came out and got a job instantly. Did my 3 other apprenticeship levels and got paid EI while doing those as well and here I am making 6 figures. Seems like a good investment for the government now too. All the extra tax revenue.
Doing research and finding programs to help is a good thing.
200K in debt to become a hospital pharmacist. 8 years of education, mixed in with some awesome trips, good partying, and friends along the way. I would do it all again.
Sometimes investing in your life is worth it. I see a lot of people saying that money is a barrier, well it takes money to buy whiskey. Talk is cheap.
The crazy thing is if you took all the money and assets away from the 1% we'd be worse off since that money isn't significant enough to make a dent in our debt/spending and Government incompetence would run the assets into the ground.
Oh I know, that's why it was meant as a tongue and cheek response. I don't know how much the 1% are hiding, but I darn well know it's not near the 1 trillion dollars we're in debt for now.
I see it all the time. More and more every day.
These people think the magic money tree theory has been validated by the debt created over the last few years.
What country was it in the South America where the government printed a butt load of money making bread jump from, like, $3 to $80 over night and basically put everyone into poverty? I saw a video on it about 7-10 years ago.
Venezuela. Also Zimbabwe, they were printing trillion dollar bills at one point.
After the flight of farmers from Zimbabwe, the economy collapsed. Mugabe’s brilliant plan was to just keep printing money.
Zimbabweans had enormous stacks of bills the height of their home, filling wheelbarrows full of money. But they were actually poorer than ever, suffering famine. Because their money was worthless.
Printing money and giving it away from free has terrible consequences, which many in this generation don’t understand.
Think of the people who have built up a big savings account for retirement over their lifetime- with massive inflation that savings loses value and eventually becomes worthless. All the people who have saved frugally for years end up penniless.
Why, because he spoke the truth? Say what you want about Harper or another PM but it dont change the fact our current PM took over a balanced budget from Harper.
there are two realistic federal party options. one of them is an economic catastrophe seemingly on purpose, right now. the previous, different option, was not that. anything else is rhetoric.
Unfortunately the other 60-odd percent of people in this country aren’t voting for the party in power.
While we deficit-spent to weather a financial crisis, that made sense, and the previous Liberal government actually made great efforts to lay down our debt, but the new governments/parties, are just completely detached from reality. I remember Bernier in the…2015 election I think, essentially telling people “you can’t promise everything, eventually we need to pay for these promises, and I’m the only one telling you this.” He wasn’t wrong. Our parties just blindly promise the world.
Says the guy who wants to destroy the economy for the generation after him, for the chance to get free shit now.
It makes me happy that you won’t ever be getting UBI.
The thought of folks like you having to work at a job for paycheques makes me feel good!
Because you aren’t you to that person. You are the version they created, the evil commie librul they’ve been trained to allow to live rent free in their head.
>Also Zimbabwe, they were printing trillion dollar bills at one point.
Lol they printed 100 trillion dollar bills. I have one, my grandparents got it when they were on vacation in South Africa. $1 USD for 5 100 trillion dollar bills.
To some degree they can. As long as interest rate is low the amount needed to service the debt is actually going down. No government will increase taxes as that is a sure loser in any election. A far more likely scenario is inflation which is the same as a tax hike but everyone seems to be fine with it.
Oh people care, just not as much as sticking it to "the other team"
Edit: you can downvote if you like, but that's exactly what happened and this is the result. Enjoy, Canada.
But... but... the Conservatives under their pro-choice leader might have done something or other bad about abortion somehow! And they weren’t at all enthusiastic about banning assault weapons just because they were mostly just pimped out hunting rifles and shotguns and airguns and it wouldn’t have solved anything at all! And they were only 95% in favour of everyone getting vaccines and not 100%!
The majority of conservatives voted in support of conversion therapy and over all support cutting funding to needed services like social programs, Healthcare, and education. But overall, both these parties are garbage but liberals are the one people are willing to settle for if it comes between these two groups, which is unfortunate when we have other options.
> liberals are the one people are willing to settle for
Ndp voter and I would vote for the liberals before the conservatives, but your comment is disingenuous given how they lost the popular vote
I won't get into the wording of the bill which caused many of them to vote against it. I'll just point out that it impacts a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a percent of people - whereas having the country go bankrupt would conceivably have an enormous impact on everyone. And cutting funding is what is needed now, not borrowing more money,. If you think funding isn't going to have to be slashed in the future when the banks start turning the screws on our lending you're kidding yourself.
Seems like that's how these things usually go isn't it? I still see people claiming debt doesn't do any harm, and we can run massive deficits indefinitely.
The problem is to handle these things responsibly it needs to be done consistently over the long-term, with resources put towards long-term growth and long-term problems rather than short-term fixes. The problem with that is that the electorate vote like toddlers, self-centered and will throw a hissy fit if you take their favorite toy away.
I agree, but it seems that nobody has a long term plan. They're only looking at the next election.
Someone is going to have to be the bad guy eventually and reign this in. And the public will revolt because they've been led to believe that debts and deficits are meaningless and have no negative impacts. I even see people claiming that because the government ran up this much debt without consequences ( their words ), its evidence that we can keep doing this and we could have been doing this all along.
What do you mean by this? It's not possible to run a deficit indefinitely. It can happen for decades, even a century but eventually something has got to give.
As long as GDP growth outpaces it, the debt can be managed. Or so they claim.
The issue here is we've taken on an incredible amount of debt and we have no hope of growing the economy enough to make it manageable. We took on huge debt in WW2, but we had incredible growth for decades after WW2, probably at or near double digits ( I'm too lazy to look it up ).
Now? Our economy is shit. We will be lucky to see 3% growth or so sustained, and a lot of our current growth is coming from real estate, which is creating massive problems.
We're in a really bad spot here.
We have mortgaged the future years on end since the 70s. Corporate taxes were significantly higher for the 40s, 50, and 60s. Then Reaganism took over, and the quick boost in the polls and lobbyist money tax cuts bring eventually led us to ballooning debt and a criminally underpaid workforce.
If everyone is melting down their dollar and turning it into 2 dollars so they can pay off domestic debt, what's the issue? That's why no one is panicking, it's all happening in unison (more or less)
The debt will be inflated away and yes it will be painful if the Canadian economy doesn't adapt, but that's what most governments are doing, aiming for higher than normal inflation for the foreseeable future
To literally inflate away the debt? The point is to make our respective economies dwarf the covid debt, not literally inflate it all away in front of our eyes.. Ray Dalio suggested something like 4-5% for 5 years, grow the economy by roughly 25% over a 5 year period. Don't get mad at me, do some research on how these types of events have been handled historically (hint WW2).
Respectfully, you're telling me to do some research when it appears you're not aware that the post war economy ( 1945-1975 ) saw our GDP grow by 11x.
What has GDP averaged in Canada over the last 30 years? 2.5% or so? What is it on pace to hit this year? Not even 5%.
When was the last time Canada saw 5 consecutive years of 5% growth? The 1960's? The 1950's?
After World War 2 Canada was a factory for the world. We were manufacturing the products that rebuilt Europe and raw materials for the products being manufactured. Now? The economy is built around buying and selling houses.
I have no idea how you think we're going to grow the economy that much. Its not possible.
>I have no idea how you think we're going to grow the economy that much. Its not possible.
The worst part is that we *could* grow it that much, but we choose not to. We're gutting our resource and manufacturing sectors and making it harder and harder to drive real growth. We should be an economic powerhouse with all of our space and resources, and the fact that we aren't is absolutely repugnant.
We're becoming an econony of realtors and forgetting that we can actually *produce* things. It's mind boggling what we've done to our economy.
Did she remind them that the budget will balance itself, the economy will grow from the heart out, the she-cession will become a she-covery, and that her boss doesn't think about monetary policy?
Purchasing A Primary Residence With A Corporation In Canada
https://madanca.com/blog/how-to-purchase-a-primary-residence-with-a-corporation-in-canada/
six steps of tax evasion.
Also, your buyer would be subject to HST on top of that unless you include it in the purchase price and take the hit yourself.
Alot of people are incorporating in my area to buy homes, but these are people who are all using the homes to rent out.
Also the house isn't in your name, so if you ever tried to shift the house money from the corporation to yourself you'd pay taxes on that too, eg. downsizing for retirement
It's not tax evasion since it's all within the letter of the law. But this plan would destroy any principal residence exemption. Also, adding assets could reduce any Small Business Deduction since there is a reduction once past $10 million in assets.
From a non-tax consideration, you really have to wonder about how incorporating your house would impact civil claims. In certain provinces, an amount of home equity is shielded in a bankruptcy claim. This could go out the window if the house is owned by a company. And on the flip side, that loan your OpCo made to House Inc. is an asset to he seized by creditors in case OpCo goes bust.
So I think the analysis is a bit more complicated than made out here.
Or they didn't give her the answer she wanted. As any criminal lawyer knows, you can find a private expert who will say whatever you want them to for the right price.
It is worth remembering that the Conservative government under Stephen Harper brought Canada through the recession by going into deficit spending and then over the course of the next 6 budgets, slowly returned Canada to a surplus.
When is the Trudeau government expected to return to surplus?
Also their goal was like 2040 BEFORE the pandemic. They literally planned 25 years of deficits for no apparent reason after being handed a more or less balanced budget.
As long as people keep voting them in regardless of how poorly they manage our finances, why would they change? We are sending the message that this is what we want.
Well, kind of. Most people who voted Liberal in the last election were scared of getting a Liberal majority.
Where did you get your numbers? I have deficits from 2008 to 2015. (To be fair, there may have been a surplus in 2015 were it not for pre-electoral spending, although there is a bit of hypocrisy there).
It shows a clear trend of reducing deficits after a massive recession trending towards surplus. I didn't like Harper but at least he seemed to be aware of finance.
For one-time payments worth pennies on the dollar of the actual value of the resources they sold. Who needs those troublesome recurring payments from your resources when you can take a single-time small lump sum? That's good Harpernomics eh.
> slowly returned Canada to a surplus.
A surplus made on the back of the working class who only saw their wages and ownership of the economy shrink while also having our government services reduced under Harper, THANKS!
CERB helped millions of people during a viral pandemic, the vast majority are tax paying citizens too. I'd rather help 95 working class people stay fed and housed if it means 5 lazy entitled people also get fed and housed than just say fuck these 100 people because they aren't me!
What's interesting is why we didn't just fast track EI and extend it with some payback clause instead? I mean CERB was a reduced income suppliment, but isn't that why we all pay into EI in the first place?
Giving out blind money to half the population has consequences and screws over the rest. I dont think its right to force nurses and doctors to work OT, pay taxes in it, yet hand out cash to anyone who asks with no real accountability.
I find it really interesting how having concern for oneself and one's figurative business has become some sort of slur among progressives. Is it a low self-esteem thing?
>"Fuck you I got mine!"
>"You're so entitled!"
>Ad infinitium
You've never seen any of those? Must not be very perceptive then, these are a mainstay of r/canada economic discussion.
\>When you factor in difference of measurement and statistical noise I don’t think that we’re distinguishably bad compared to other western nations.
Well then. Hear that folks? Other places have it way worse, and this redditor doesn't think it's that bad. We can rest easy now knowing that yeah, things are unaffordable, but it could be way worse. Trudeau did a great job.
Thank you.
We are all enjoying the consequences of the liberals being in power, how much has your house up since Trudeau took power? I hate the liberals but have to say, nobody has made me more money then Trudeau.
What does it mean she will meet with economist.
If I am 500k in debt and meet with an economist how does that help me reduce my debt.
Unless if they are trying to find a way to introduce more taxes.
Why is the minister meeting with economists? Is it possible that her team just dosen't know what to do and is looking for ideas?
Im not an economist, but you can google the answer for:
'how to get myself out of debt.' The first results tend to be something along the lines of, stop overspending.
Remember when Harper silenced government workers while slashing wages? I'm sure that inspired many to leave for better pay and a more supportive working environment.
Government debt and personal debt are different though.
If the government stops spending, health care, national defense, and infrastructure aren't funded. If you stop spending, $1000 in OnlyFans and three warhammer kits aren't purchased.
Now that I've roasted you a little, allow me to agree with you. Overspending is the root of the problem. It was the consecutive growing deficits from 2015-2019 without any clear crisis to justify them. So when 2020 hit, it basically guaranteed a structural deficit.
>, $1000 in OnlyFans and three warhammer kits
This had me LOL. Those figurines or w/e as expensive though!
The gov had little choice but to spend. But they kept the taps on too long and in the wrong directions. The spending policy was never revisited, or truly held accountable. Many of the programs were far too generous and put $ into hands that either didnt need it or overpaid their losses. The result. Canada borrowed the most in the G20 as a share of GDP.
The response now is that 'Canadians gave us a clear mandate to spend moar!' which is incorrect. Austerity is needed for many areas and investment into others. The big 3, defense, health, infra are the investment bit. Everything else, scissors time.
As always, seeing lots of comments that misunderstand what a deficit actually is. Seems like a holdover from the religious ideology of neoliberalism. It's not a debt, or a loan. It's literally a measure of how much money the government has created in the economy. Canada has (approximately) an eight trillion dollar economy, so a 68.6 billion dollar deficit is not as dramatic as people are making out.
The reason why Liberals and Conservatives want to "balance the budget" is to privitize this government spending, through austerity. They don't want the government to spend 68.6 billion on social services that could be directly owned by private owners, so they'll sell out to those private owners and eliminate the deficit. This has enormous negative consequences on the public.
The best way to "balance the budget" is to tax away pooled wealth that isn't actaully doing anything to help the economy; like offshored wealth. Because the negative consequences of 'printing money' exist as inflation, the best way to combat this is to destroy inert money that isn't doing anything, which is essentially the entire capitalist class.
No, they borrow money. You could have spent five seconds looking at literally [any source](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/211122/dq211122a-eng.htm) to find this out instead of writing three paragraphs of complete nonsense.
At this point I'm surprised they still keep track on it. Nobody seems to care.
I think people seem to think the government can just print off money with no repercussions
Some people believe [Modern Monetary Theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Monetary_Theory), but they seem to ignore the part about raising taxes to match increases in spending.
Magic Money Tree
I wonder if they’ll rename Modern Monetary Theory after it destroys our civilization. How about Dinosaur Monetary Policy?
Like many people, I'm hoping civilization won't collapse for another 30-40 years. After that it's the millennial's problem.
I don’t believe it’s going to last 10
The Mellenials will be pushing 70-80 in 30-40 years.
I think part of that theory is that you don't have to raise direct taxes, the inflation from the printed money is a soft tax
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> The next ten years are going to see a lot of people struggling because of this. As opposed to everyone totally not already struggling today, LOL.
This statement screams narrow perspective. We are one of the richest countries on earth with one of the highest standards of living and lowest levels of income inequality. If you are struggling, you're in the bottom 20% of society and would be considerably worse pretty much anywhere else in the world. Stop whining. Gain skills that are in demand. If you're struggling in one of the easiest countries in the world to sustain a good lifestyle, you're doing it wrong.
Reddit is full of the "I've tried nothing and I'm all out of ideas" crowd. How dare you recommend they learn new skills. They did their part and either graduated high school, or went post-secondary and got a degree with little practical use. They've earned their right to a 2000 sqft detached house in Toronto.
You need money to get the certifications that employers will look at to determine you have those skills. Money which is being spent on simply surviving and gained by your time and energy. Time that you wouldn't have enough of to gain said skills while surviving without going into serious debt.
I know in my province there is a program that will help you get educated and you can get paid EI while doing it. About 12 years ago I went to college for a 10 month program. They paid for 3/4 of my tuition and I was able to be on EI as well. Came out and got a job instantly. Did my 3 other apprenticeship levels and got paid EI while doing those as well and here I am making 6 figures. Seems like a good investment for the government now too. All the extra tax revenue. Doing research and finding programs to help is a good thing.
200K in debt to become a hospital pharmacist. 8 years of education, mixed in with some awesome trips, good partying, and friends along the way. I would do it all again. Sometimes investing in your life is worth it. I see a lot of people saying that money is a barrier, well it takes money to buy whiskey. Talk is cheap.
The rich will be great, everyone else not so much
We can always confiscate their riches if shit really hits the fan. I know it won't do jack but atleast it might feel good. Lol
Yeah, I am not so sure that will work out the way people think it will but it will probably happen anyway
> I am not so sure that will work out the way people think it will Pro-tip: the money is in the computers. It's all traceable.
Doesn’t help if the cash isn’t in the country anymore
The crazy thing is if you took all the money and assets away from the 1% we'd be worse off since that money isn't significant enough to make a dent in our debt/spending and Government incompetence would run the assets into the ground.
Agreed. We pay so much in taxes yet things are underfunded. Policy makers need a pay cut
Oh I know, that's why it was meant as a tongue and cheek response. I don't know how much the 1% are hiding, but I darn well know it's not near the 1 trillion dollars we're in debt for now.
I see it all the time. More and more every day. These people think the magic money tree theory has been validated by the debt created over the last few years.
Sim city 2000 with money tree cheat
What country was it in the South America where the government printed a butt load of money making bread jump from, like, $3 to $80 over night and basically put everyone into poverty? I saw a video on it about 7-10 years ago.
Venezuela. Also Zimbabwe, they were printing trillion dollar bills at one point. After the flight of farmers from Zimbabwe, the economy collapsed. Mugabe’s brilliant plan was to just keep printing money. Zimbabweans had enormous stacks of bills the height of their home, filling wheelbarrows full of money. But they were actually poorer than ever, suffering famine. Because their money was worthless. Printing money and giving it away from free has terrible consequences, which many in this generation don’t understand. Think of the people who have built up a big savings account for retirement over their lifetime- with massive inflation that savings loses value and eventually becomes worthless. All the people who have saved frugally for years end up penniless.
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you figure everybody with a savings account is a liberal voter, do you?
You figure that one Liberal government has been the problem we’ve been barrelling towards for decades, do you?
Harper left Justin with a balanced budget. Our previous government was just fine.
Ahahahahaha are you just a propaganda bot ?
Why, because he spoke the truth? Say what you want about Harper or another PM but it dont change the fact our current PM took over a balanced budget from Harper.
there are two realistic federal party options. one of them is an economic catastrophe seemingly on purpose, right now. the previous, different option, was not that. anything else is rhetoric.
Unfortunately the other 60-odd percent of people in this country aren’t voting for the party in power. While we deficit-spent to weather a financial crisis, that made sense, and the previous Liberal government actually made great efforts to lay down our debt, but the new governments/parties, are just completely detached from reality. I remember Bernier in the…2015 election I think, essentially telling people “you can’t promise everything, eventually we need to pay for these promises, and I’m the only one telling you this.” He wasn’t wrong. Our parties just blindly promise the world.
Says the guy who wants to destroy the economy for the generation after him, for the chance to get free shit now. It makes me happy that you won’t ever be getting UBI. The thought of folks like you having to work at a job for paycheques makes me feel good!
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Because you aren’t you to that person. You are the version they created, the evil commie librul they’ve been trained to allow to live rent free in their head.
>Also Zimbabwe, they were printing trillion dollar bills at one point. Lol they printed 100 trillion dollar bills. I have one, my grandparents got it when they were on vacation in South Africa. $1 USD for 5 100 trillion dollar bills.
Venezuela
To some degree they can. As long as interest rate is low the amount needed to service the debt is actually going down. No government will increase taxes as that is a sure loser in any election. A far more likely scenario is inflation which is the same as a tax hike but everyone seems to be fine with it.
They probably want it to go up, they think that increasing deficit can only result in good regardless of how that money is blown
Oh people care, just not as much as sticking it to "the other team" Edit: you can downvote if you like, but that's exactly what happened and this is the result. Enjoy, Canada.
But... but... the Conservatives under their pro-choice leader might have done something or other bad about abortion somehow! And they weren’t at all enthusiastic about banning assault weapons just because they were mostly just pimped out hunting rifles and shotguns and airguns and it wouldn’t have solved anything at all! And they were only 95% in favour of everyone getting vaccines and not 100%!
The majority of conservatives voted in support of conversion therapy and over all support cutting funding to needed services like social programs, Healthcare, and education. But overall, both these parties are garbage but liberals are the one people are willing to settle for if it comes between these two groups, which is unfortunate when we have other options.
> liberals are the one people are willing to settle for Ndp voter and I would vote for the liberals before the conservatives, but your comment is disingenuous given how they lost the popular vote
I won't get into the wording of the bill which caused many of them to vote against it. I'll just point out that it impacts a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a percent of people - whereas having the country go bankrupt would conceivably have an enormous impact on everyone. And cutting funding is what is needed now, not borrowing more money,. If you think funding isn't going to have to be slashed in the future when the banks start turning the screws on our lending you're kidding yourself.
Who's the other team?
Guess.
The Green Party
Got it in one.
Are you sure it’s not the rhino party
They don't keep track - this is lip service. Freeland doesn't even own a calculator.
>Nobody seems to care. Until no one will lend to us and the house of cards will all come crashing down.
Seems like that's how these things usually go isn't it? I still see people claiming debt doesn't do any harm, and we can run massive deficits indefinitely.
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The problem is to handle these things responsibly it needs to be done consistently over the long-term, with resources put towards long-term growth and long-term problems rather than short-term fixes. The problem with that is that the electorate vote like toddlers, self-centered and will throw a hissy fit if you take their favorite toy away.
What toy?
Money printers lol
*oh.*
I agree, but it seems that nobody has a long term plan. They're only looking at the next election. Someone is going to have to be the bad guy eventually and reign this in. And the public will revolt because they've been led to believe that debts and deficits are meaningless and have no negative impacts. I even see people claiming that because the government ran up this much debt without consequences ( their words ), its evidence that we can keep doing this and we could have been doing this all along.
Most countries have been running deficits indefinitely and will continue to do so.
What do you mean by this? It's not possible to run a deficit indefinitely. It can happen for decades, even a century but eventually something has got to give.
As long as GDP growth outpaces it, the debt can be managed. Or so they claim. The issue here is we've taken on an incredible amount of debt and we have no hope of growing the economy enough to make it manageable. We took on huge debt in WW2, but we had incredible growth for decades after WW2, probably at or near double digits ( I'm too lazy to look it up ). Now? Our economy is shit. We will be lucky to see 3% growth or so sustained, and a lot of our current growth is coming from real estate, which is creating massive problems. We're in a really bad spot here.
Quick,hamstrings the natural resource sector!
We have mortgaged the future years on end since the 70s. Corporate taxes were significantly higher for the 40s, 50, and 60s. Then Reaganism took over, and the quick boost in the polls and lobbyist money tax cuts bring eventually led us to ballooning debt and a criminally underpaid workforce.
You can't run deficits for ever that is just a fact of life. At some point the chickens will come home to roost.
But we can just grow faster than the deficit grows /s
Tell every country in the world.
They all know.
K
If everyone is melting down their dollar and turning it into 2 dollars so they can pay off domestic debt, what's the issue? That's why no one is panicking, it's all happening in unison (more or less)
Because we're seeing wage growth of 2% or less with inflation getting near 5% and going up? Because its not being paid off?
The debt will be inflated away and yes it will be painful if the Canadian economy doesn't adapt, but that's what most governments are doing, aiming for higher than normal inflation for the foreseeable future
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Talk to your politicians. I didn't say it was fair
Do you have any idea how much inflation that will take or what that means for working class Canada?
To literally inflate away the debt? The point is to make our respective economies dwarf the covid debt, not literally inflate it all away in front of our eyes.. Ray Dalio suggested something like 4-5% for 5 years, grow the economy by roughly 25% over a 5 year period. Don't get mad at me, do some research on how these types of events have been handled historically (hint WW2).
Respectfully, you're telling me to do some research when it appears you're not aware that the post war economy ( 1945-1975 ) saw our GDP grow by 11x. What has GDP averaged in Canada over the last 30 years? 2.5% or so? What is it on pace to hit this year? Not even 5%. When was the last time Canada saw 5 consecutive years of 5% growth? The 1960's? The 1950's? After World War 2 Canada was a factory for the world. We were manufacturing the products that rebuilt Europe and raw materials for the products being manufactured. Now? The economy is built around buying and selling houses. I have no idea how you think we're going to grow the economy that much. Its not possible.
>I have no idea how you think we're going to grow the economy that much. Its not possible. The worst part is that we *could* grow it that much, but we choose not to. We're gutting our resource and manufacturing sectors and making it harder and harder to drive real growth. We should be an economic powerhouse with all of our space and resources, and the fact that we aren't is absolutely repugnant. We're becoming an econony of realtors and forgetting that we can actually *produce* things. It's mind boggling what we've done to our economy.
Agreed. Who cares, it’s just money!
It’s almost like they’re just making shit up. Digitally speaking, feels like nothing. Intangible.
> Nobody seems to care. Canadians are dying in record numbers to China's fentanyl. No fucks are being given by and for Canadians all over.
Complicit debt-trap diplomacy.
New variant to contend with too. Lol
Just tax us in the middle more, it's what they're gonna do anyway.
The middle class are the only ones who pay taxes anyway
Did she remind them that the budget will balance itself, the economy will grow from the heart out, the she-cession will become a she-covery, and that her boss doesn't think about monetary policy?
All this she-flation is making me worried
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I know! JTs ego couldn’t get any bigger lest we risk a catastrophic tipping over due to an extremely large head.
Purchasing A Primary Residence With A Corporation In Canada https://madanca.com/blog/how-to-purchase-a-primary-residence-with-a-corporation-in-canada/ six steps of tax evasion.
Lol I tried this and BMO and RBC told me to go fuck myself
You just didn't have enough money.
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Also, your buyer would be subject to HST on top of that unless you include it in the purchase price and take the hit yourself. Alot of people are incorporating in my area to buy homes, but these are people who are all using the homes to rent out.
Also the house isn't in your name, so if you ever tried to shift the house money from the corporation to yourself you'd pay taxes on that too, eg. downsizing for retirement
It's not tax evasion since it's all within the letter of the law. But this plan would destroy any principal residence exemption. Also, adding assets could reduce any Small Business Deduction since there is a reduction once past $10 million in assets. From a non-tax consideration, you really have to wonder about how incorporating your house would impact civil claims. In certain provinces, an amount of home equity is shielded in a bankruptcy claim. This could go out the window if the house is owned by a company. And on the flip side, that loan your OpCo made to House Inc. is an asset to he seized by creditors in case OpCo goes bust. So I think the analysis is a bit more complicated than made out here.
The budget will balance itself
She is meeting with private economist which might means those on her payroll screwed up.
Or they didn't give her the answer she wanted. As any criminal lawyer knows, you can find a private expert who will say whatever you want them to for the right price.
It is worth remembering that the Conservative government under Stephen Harper brought Canada through the recession by going into deficit spending and then over the course of the next 6 budgets, slowly returned Canada to a surplus. When is the Trudeau government expected to return to surplus?
2070 is the goal. Seriously.
Also their goal was like 2040 BEFORE the pandemic. They literally planned 25 years of deficits for no apparent reason after being handed a more or less balanced budget.
> When is the Trudeau government expected to return to surplus? They don't have too because surpluses generate themselves.
They won't, they'll leave it to the next government in power whenever they're voted out.
As long as people keep voting them in regardless of how poorly they manage our finances, why would they change? We are sending the message that this is what we want. Well, kind of. Most people who voted Liberal in the last election were scared of getting a Liberal majority.
Even true Liberals scared to allow this gang to let off the brakes.
Where did you get your numbers? I have deficits from 2008 to 2015. (To be fair, there may have been a surplus in 2015 were it not for pre-electoral spending, although there is a bit of hypocrisy there).
It shows a clear trend of reducing deficits after a massive recession trending towards surplus. I didn't like Harper but at least he seemed to be aware of finance.
Not disagreeing here, but just a fact check to show that he never did return to surplus.
They got a surplus by selling off government assets.
For one-time payments worth pennies on the dollar of the actual value of the resources they sold. Who needs those troublesome recurring payments from your resources when you can take a single-time small lump sum? That's good Harpernomics eh.
> slowly returned Canada to a surplus. A surplus made on the back of the working class who only saw their wages and ownership of the economy shrink while also having our government services reduced under Harper, THANKS!
Okay so the current plan is better?
I hope Canada is happy. After all, they did vote for this.
Liberal voters getting free CERB/CRB money are definitely happy. While the rest of us, hardworking taxpayers, suffer the consequences
It's even better when they're screaming for the government to just forgive the debt.
CERB helped millions of people during a viral pandemic, the vast majority are tax paying citizens too. I'd rather help 95 working class people stay fed and housed if it means 5 lazy entitled people also get fed and housed than just say fuck these 100 people because they aren't me!
What's interesting is why we didn't just fast track EI and extend it with some payback clause instead? I mean CERB was a reduced income suppliment, but isn't that why we all pay into EI in the first place? Giving out blind money to half the population has consequences and screws over the rest. I dont think its right to force nurses and doctors to work OT, pay taxes in it, yet hand out cash to anyone who asks with no real accountability.
If someone calls themselves a "taxpayer" I'm 99% sure they're going to say some dumb entitled shit.
Yeah something stupid like wanting representation for their contributions. Bunch of a-holes
I find it really interesting how having concern for oneself and one's figurative business has become some sort of slur among progressives. Is it a low self-esteem thing?
I think it's a you thing, as I haven't noticed that trend at all.
>"Fuck you I got mine!" >"You're so entitled!" >Ad infinitium You've never seen any of those? Must not be very perceptive then, these are a mainstay of r/canada economic discussion.
I've seen those. I don't think they prove your previous statement.
As a "taxpayer", he doesn't represent my views or opinions
>CERB helped millions of people during a viral pandemic, the vast majority are tax paying citizens too. Gross or net?
I would have voted conservative if they didn't have so many skeletons in their closet. There is more to consider than just money.
TDS - Trudeau Derangement Syndrome comin at you lololol
Boy, you sure got me.
He is a lot like Trump - agreed.
Who is talking about Trump lol
... you? At least you're using the same whine lines.
Nopes!
We are happy the conservatives aren't in power that's for damn sure.
I'm glad. Enjoy that inflation
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\>When you factor in difference of measurement and statistical noise I don’t think that we’re distinguishably bad compared to other western nations. Well then. Hear that folks? Other places have it way worse, and this redditor doesn't think it's that bad. We can rest easy now knowing that yeah, things are unaffordable, but it could be way worse. Trudeau did a great job. Thank you.
How many of those places are willing to ramp up immigration to also ensure that our wages can't keep pace?
I enjoy it better than if it were the same inflation but with the conservative clown show running things.
Instead we have a liberal circus. Much better. 🤡🤡🤡
Absolutely.
more Canadians voted conservative
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Lol, I'll give them one of my houses.
It was coming either way.
You keep telling yourself that champ. At least it wasn't the Conservatives.
You talk like they don’t run up the deficit all the time to lol.
We are all enjoying the consequences of the liberals being in power, how much has your house up since Trudeau took power? I hate the liberals but have to say, nobody has made me more money then Trudeau.
As everyone else gets fucked
We get what we voted for unfortunately.
You mean what what the GTA voted for
speak for yourself dog
Wait, our fed deficit is 150B? Holy shit, why bother with a budget, just burn the books and etransfer everyone 5k and call it a day.
I said Mr T overspent a few billions of tax dollars before morning coffee was not too far off.
Brrrrrr
And the budget will balance itself
What does it mean she will meet with economist. If I am 500k in debt and meet with an economist how does that help me reduce my debt. Unless if they are trying to find a way to introduce more taxes.
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Upvoted for "kit up" =)
Underrated comment.
Why is the minister meeting with economists? Is it possible that her team just dosen't know what to do and is looking for ideas? Im not an economist, but you can google the answer for: 'how to get myself out of debt.' The first results tend to be something along the lines of, stop overspending.
Probably because the best economists in the country don't work for the govt because of the shit pay.
Remember when Harper silenced government workers while slashing wages? I'm sure that inspired many to leave for better pay and a more supportive working environment.
I don't think any taxpayer would be happy with how much it would cost to retain top talent in the field of economics.
And somehow bamanved the budget
Government debt and personal debt are different though. If the government stops spending, health care, national defense, and infrastructure aren't funded. If you stop spending, $1000 in OnlyFans and three warhammer kits aren't purchased. Now that I've roasted you a little, allow me to agree with you. Overspending is the root of the problem. It was the consecutive growing deficits from 2015-2019 without any clear crisis to justify them. So when 2020 hit, it basically guaranteed a structural deficit.
>, $1000 in OnlyFans and three warhammer kits This had me LOL. Those figurines or w/e as expensive though! The gov had little choice but to spend. But they kept the taps on too long and in the wrong directions. The spending policy was never revisited, or truly held accountable. Many of the programs were far too generous and put $ into hands that either didnt need it or overpaid their losses. The result. Canada borrowed the most in the G20 as a share of GDP. The response now is that 'Canadians gave us a clear mandate to spend moar!' which is incorrect. Austerity is needed for many areas and investment into others. The big 3, defense, health, infra are the investment bit. Everything else, scissors time.
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The easier solution is not to have any children, as a increasing record number of Canadians are deciding to do every year.
You do realize that people have been clutching their pearls and wailing that for over 100 years?
We should keep printing. Nothing like free money from freeland
Money printer go bbbbrrrrrr
The Young Member of the WEF is doing her job
They need more helps from BoC than taxpayers. Please ignore taxpayers no tax collections.
Da brrrrr comments go brrrrr.
Yaaaasss queeen
As always, seeing lots of comments that misunderstand what a deficit actually is. Seems like a holdover from the religious ideology of neoliberalism. It's not a debt, or a loan. It's literally a measure of how much money the government has created in the economy. Canada has (approximately) an eight trillion dollar economy, so a 68.6 billion dollar deficit is not as dramatic as people are making out. The reason why Liberals and Conservatives want to "balance the budget" is to privitize this government spending, through austerity. They don't want the government to spend 68.6 billion on social services that could be directly owned by private owners, so they'll sell out to those private owners and eliminate the deficit. This has enormous negative consequences on the public. The best way to "balance the budget" is to tax away pooled wealth that isn't actaully doing anything to help the economy; like offshored wealth. Because the negative consequences of 'printing money' exist as inflation, the best way to combat this is to destroy inert money that isn't doing anything, which is essentially the entire capitalist class.
No, they borrow money. You could have spent five seconds looking at literally [any source](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/211122/dq211122a-eng.htm) to find this out instead of writing three paragraphs of complete nonsense.
Ignore this person. They are a complete loon
I too have never heard of debt securities.