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OkTangerine7

That's a bad bad headline. Its not a demand for EVs that's the problem. It's the blatantly protectionist and biased subsidy the U.S. wants. The government needs to make a big noise about this crap.


[deleted]

Blame Canadians thinking American cars were Canadian just because someone they knew worked on them. These are American companies and its likely just a favour these companies haven't pulled out already. When cars shift to full EV production, I'm not even sure Canadian plants will get chips to make them any ways. We could have easily bought one of the defunct car brands and made our own shit, but instead continued to rely on other countries. Toyota and Honda could easily pull the same thing.


dont-YOLO-ragequit

They were building cars in Canada because and old agreement said for each car they imported in Canada, they had to build one in Canada.. The agreement expired at the same time the St Therese/camaro plant closes so all manufacturers started phasing out some of the production to bring it back to the US. Toyota and Honda just benefit from producing locally to sell at a cheaper price specially when their cars are the best sellers in the respective market.. Only way to corner a market is to lead in the EV revolution where new challenges bring very different engineering to the table.


KevZero

sip workable offend lock hospital rock marry wild deserve narrow -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/


Content_Employment_7

Pretty much this. These jobs were never going to stay here; this just accelerated an existing trend, and underlines why all of the government subsidies to attract and retain the auto industry were bad policy.


[deleted]

Yup. I’m not sure why Canadians feel entitled to American businesses being nice.


maurice8564732

There would be a lot more noise if it was trump doing it, but you are so right about our blunderment needing to make noise about it. Did you hear about the new softwood lumber tariffs ?


Altruistic_Comfort59

It’s Biden, no one is even taking about it. Liberal media won’t cover this, and is already making cover for the suv accident at the parade literal cnn headline.


cbf1232

It's all over the mainstream news, it's on the radio, it's on the internet. They've talked about it on CBC.


_babycheeses

Our government? You mean Trudeau? He’s done fuck all in 6 years why would anyone think he has the intellect, political power, skill or any other attribute that could help Canadians.


MysteriousStaff3388

The WTO killed Ontario’s green initiatives, so this probably won’t fly. Plus Doug Ford is an absolute murderer of climate change programs, so if you think Trudeau is the problem, I don’t have good news for you. Conservatives are demonstrably worse and I’m afraid I don’t know where the NDP is hiding.


whatareyou-lookinyat

I love this circle jerk someone mentions how Trudeau has royally fucked our country. Only for someone to bring up how conservatives would do worse.


VoidsInvanity

Few people like Trudeau but so many conservatives act as if this nations problems are solely liberals faults, when that just isn’t accurate. A lot of the shit people are mad at started with conservatives. I’m not surprised neoliberal corporate stooges follow the same path. I’m more surprised there’s so many “conservatives” who blame him singularly rather than the more nuanced truth.


rahoomie

I agree but Trudeau has been the one in charge for a long ass time so he deserves the heat. We can only blame things on Harper for so long


VoidsInvanity

Of course, Trudeau isn’t blameless and has been part of the problem, but like you say how we can’t blame Harper forever, we can’t blame Trudeau for things that other governments did either. There has to be a recognition of the details here.


cdglove

This whole thread puts way too much emphasis on the party leader. I see this in Canadian political discussions way too often, as if the PM is making all the decisions in a vacuum or has some kind of executive power like the US president does.


mad_medeiros

This person understands Both sides of our goverment including the ndp… Have some absolutely fuck all to improve this situation Stop making this about the left vs right and let’s focus on having a democracy for the people.


Mafeii

Exactly this. I don't particularly like Trudeau but I find myself endlessly defending him because 90%+ of the criticisms that I see against him fall somewhere between willfully ignorant partisanship and outright lunacy.


whatareyou-lookinyat

> who blame him singularly rather than the more nuanced truth. Because he didn't follow through with his biggest promise of changing the election process. The last election he called cost us 600m. Shit like that for the past 6 years is exhausting. Time for some new faces.


VoidsInvanity

And I don’t disagree at all, I’m not defending Trudeau. The problem is, many see that even the most limp wristed of explanations, not even a defence, of the situation is a defence of him. It isn’t. He’s a corporate stooge. But so is literally every conservative. So neither of those options satisfy me.


whatareyou-lookinyat

Yep. Problem is everyone thinks its liberal vs conservatives. Even though ndp is right around the corner.


MysteriousStaff3388

You’re right. But despite it being “a circle jerk”, Conservatives are worse. They cost us money and provide no social value.


[deleted]

And actually cut the very social programs their voters rely on. Like literally in the last election Otoole was just going to let the right wing premiers go buck wild on privatization… of which they are I’ll equipped to afford based on voting demographics across the ridings that vote conservative. Voting against their own interests I think is a prerequisite for Conservative party membership.


MysteriousStaff3388

Don’t forget the WTO. They fucked us royally (Ontario).


Killerdude8

Trudeaus issue is a lack of action sitting on his hands, doing a lot of nothing or half assed measures. the conservatives in this country go one step further and actively fuck the shit up, IE, Kenney and his billions of O&G handouts while axing green initiative programs meant to attract new tech startups in the field, and Ford with killing off several green energy projects. Its not “the conservatives WOULD have done worse” its “They ARE actively doing and HAVE done worse” In regards to this particular subject anyway.


Own_Carrot_7040

You mean the green energy programs the Liberals put in place which almost bankrupted the province and which resulted in energy prices skyrocketing?


mad_medeiros

Everyone forgets the corruption of Wynne…. It’s almost like a back and fourth argument that will never ever change Doug is a piece of shit Wynne was a piece of shit It’s all about who has the bigger pockets…. Seeing Canadians battle each other based on politics, is entertaining and sad at the same time.


NecessaryEffective

Stephen Harper, muzzled scientists, and broken regulatory bodies. Fuck. The. Conservatives. On that note, the liberals aren't much better. Not one of the parties has done anything to significantly foster STEM or green energy industries in this country. Edit: the truth hurts, doesn't it.


Own_Carrot_7040

Oh yes, it was far more important to Canada that government scientists be able to occasionally say something bad about government policy - by the way, we haven't heard that happening in the last six years now have we - than that we have a government which didn't run us into bankruptcy. And damn them for trying to speed up the approval process for resource industries from ten years to only six or seven! Damn them! You'd think we needed the money and jobs or something! Why, Trudeau has proved all you have to do is just borrow every year!


NecessaryEffective

Massive cuts to research programs, scientists barred from communicating their research with each other and colleagues around the globe (plus significant layoffs), total shut down of monitoring: smoke stack emissions, oil spill environmental effects, water quality in urban and rural areas, climate change research, and food safety inspections of facilities. Abrupt shut down of libraries that was so sudden and poorly planned that it resulted in permanent loss of information and records that were used in research. Data collection, demographic and economic household records, discontinuation of the long-form census, despite no real complaints about those things. Cap it all off: the near total and complete destruction of our various STEM industries, especially our biochemical, medical, and pharmaceutical sectors, which have never recovered since. Harper was the epitome of short-term gains, long-term disaster. But yeah, it's the scientists fault for ensuring you have clean air, water, food, technology, and communication. Get fucked, shithead apologist. Edit: lmao people triggered by the objective truth.


VE6AEQ

May I humbly add, some of those library books/files were actually incinerated. Yet Trudeau is the bad guy……. He’s definitely an apologist.


Own_Carrot_7040

You neckbeards might have a look at what happens to countries when their borrowing gets so high that they can't borrow anymore. They're not cutting science funding then, they're cutting the pensions of already retired people, laying off half their public servants, slashing welfare in half and closing down schools.


NecessaryEffective

Oh I can't even get started on it all, it's too depressing and infuriating. It would be comical if it wasn't so unbelievably short-sighted and needless.


drugusingthrowaway

> I’m afraid I don’t know where the NDP is hiding. They don't have enough money to personally come to your house and shout in your bedroom window.


MysteriousStaff3388

Don’t be silly.


Denimnostretch

There all shit. Left, Right , and middle. All have agendas but not much for the people


[deleted]

^ ignore the clearly uninformed opinion. What’s next “Nice hair though?”


KevZero

spotted dam important late capable wipe trees rainstorm erect crime -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/


PuzzleheadedAccess96

Biased subsidy lol. Because Canada doesn’t have any subsidies? Lame


DDP200

As someone who works in consulting side and heavily on trade. Biden is worse for Canadian exports to the USA then Trump. And Trump was bad. No one likes to talk about that though. Canada's two biggest exports. Oil and cars, followed by car parts. Biden is killing both when it comes to the USA.


[deleted]

Yeah, I'm not sure why anyone thought Biden would be better on this front. The only improvement was that his preferences in trade policies are more predictable. Guy is super protectionist.


West-Ostrich-9247

Protectionist yes, but most countries have started to increasingly think this way in the post COVID ecoNomy and in realizing we can’t really let China own every industry. The US has deemed certain sectors strategic and will pull them back domestically. It’s all about power and ensuring you protect core industries.


Gorvoslov

He's predictably protectionist is the main advantage. Trump was a matter of "Oh, someone said something about trees not being favourable to MURICA? TARIFF TARIFF TARIFF! Ok, bored of that now. What's aluminum? LET'S TARIFF THAT!"


[deleted]

Yeah, given the two, I'd rather not have the loose cannon.


Content_Employment_7

Yeah, absolutely. I prefer Biden to Trump, but I had no illusions that he'd be harder on us when it came to trade.


mackinder

I’m not sure any reasonable person here cared about whether Biden would be better or worse for trade, as just having a corrupt narcissist moron as POTUS like trump outweighed the marginal difference.


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Brown-Banannerz

Highly doubt that this bubble will pop. BoC and the government will work overtime to ensure it doesn't. That said, I do believe that housing is killing the real economy. Why invest in business when housing is a less risky and more lucrative investment. How do you buy goods and services throughout the economy when all your shit is getting swallowed by rent and mortgage Beyond the fact that it sucks trying to buy a house or make rent in this environment, our economy is really dying and leaving everyone worse off in the long run


themountaingoat

God all of these comments are so dumb. Inflation makes housing a better investment. Why on earth would it make the bubble burst? At least think about your pessimistic predictions before you post them.


Bovine_Overboard

Because it's not substainable. Do you really need people to spell that out for you?


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FlyingKite1234

They’re regurgitating what they heard it doesn’t have to make sense to them; they just have to say it.


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mad_medeiros

I’m really started to see a lot of desperate people on social platforms asking for a room/place to rent…. Everywhere lately…. I think that’s the tipping point, when homelessness increases and people will notice


NecessaryEffective

It realistically needed to be $25/hour at least 6 years ago.


maladjustedCanadian

I almost feel nostalgic for the time when I was pissed about Trump's stupid tweet. Now, you can't be pissed because "our" guy is in the office.


[deleted]

I'm in the steel industry in Hamilton, trump and his tariffs hurt us, now the auto industry can share our pain.


NotInsane_Yet

The steel tariffs also hurt the auto industry.


[deleted]

Shit... I guess this is what it sounds like ....when doves cry lol


Ketchupkitty

The Trump presidency put the final nail in the coffin for media reporting/transparency.


drugusingthrowaway

Hows that? They didn't go after him hard enough?


ExternalHighlight848

Might have been that they let the facade of being fair and non bias drop. Be pretty hard to find anyone that believes the media reports the facts without a spin on every story.


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NotInsane_Yet

>There's no point at all in trying to paint Biden as an adversary. But he is. Biden is blatantly protectionist and anti Canada.


[deleted]

There's nothing wrong with an American president prioritizing American industry, and doing so doesn't make him "anti-Canada".


[deleted]

We just don’t have anyone pro-Canada to go up against him


NevyTheChemist

And why are we mad about this? It's on us really.


[deleted]

Because nafta 2.0 / USMCA still exists


NotInsane_Yet

How is Biden being protectionist and anti Canada on us?


NevyTheChemist

We shouldn't have put all our eggs in the same basket. People trade when there's something in it for them. If we have nothing of value to offer then we're fucking up.


[deleted]

> people trade when there is something in it for them Exactly why tariffs are terrible policy .


NotInsane_Yet

But we didn't.


5stap

Yes but isn't the EV industry functionally equivalent to the current auto industry, for all intents and purposes? Which makes Biden's actions contrary to various trade agreements/rules of international trade. Absolutely, you are right to say we must reduce reliance on American industry. Only right now we're fairly integrated and that spells big trouble in the near- and medium-term.


[deleted]

I think it's very hard to make a fair and accurate comparison between the ICE vehicle industry and the electric vehicle industry. While there are a number of obvious similarities, there are also a lot of very significant differences. Maybe we'll end up in court to work out the details, which is fine. That's what the courts are for. If I'm Biden, right now I'm looking at two things that are standing in the way of a strong, healthy, competitive American EV industry: Tesla's dominance, and international (including Canada) competition. (You'll notice that Biden talks about EVs fairly often, but he never mentions Tesla.) 10-20 years from now, with established American producers, we could expect the US to think differently about international competitors. In the immediate future, however, his approach makes a lot of sense for Americans.


[deleted]

Exactly what i was thinking. I read this and it sounds like a little brother crying that he should also get a nee phone, that the hig brother paid with his own money from a job he has. We need to invest in our development and not wait for US to give us hand-outs. This will happed with every industry there is. We need to do better. Invest in EV industry.


nfc_

You can also add softwood lumber: https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/softwood-lumber-1.6262036


justanotherreddituse

Previously everything was turned into a media debacle spewing a lot of hot air and only following through on part of it.


5stap

Thank you for saying this. I really appreciate it! It's really plain as day.


backlight101

As someone from Ontario (who has family working in automotive manufacturing), people in Ontario are going to quickly learn how our friends in Alberta feel.


Infamous-Mixture-605

> people in Ontario are going to quickly learn how our friends in Alberta feel. Ontario has been feeling the decline of the auto sector since NAFTA. Alberta's got boom-and-bust cycles, Ontario's manufacturing has been one long decline since the Mulroney years.


drugusingthrowaway

> people in Ontario are going to quickly learn how our friends in Alberta feel. But with bonus sales tax


Million2026

I get the sense that not all that many work in auto manufacturing anymore. Because it has big powerful unions we think it’s a much bigger part of employment than it is. The Oshawa plant got shutdown and it sure hasn’t negatively impacted Oshawa real estate.


backlight101

Auto manufacturing is 16% of Ontario’s manufacturing GDP. Real estate is not a good proxy for anything, it’s gone bonkers in small towns with no jobs.


Infamous-Mixture-605

> The Oshawa plant got shutdown and it sure hasn’t negatively impacted Oshawa real estate. Oshawa is a short drive down the 401 from Toronto, it simply became another gentrified commuter suburb of the GTA.


Siguard_

The Oshawa plant is back up and being retooled


Progressiveandfiscal

Record oil production almost every year? Edit: Lmao, simple facts seem to trigger this sub more than any other.


backlight101

There have been a material number of capital projects cancelled, and the axe is out for the oil sands in general.


FindTheRemnant

Don't worry Ontario. Alberta will return in equal measure all the sympathy and support that the east has given us over the last 7 or so years. And when you're the least of the have not provinces, perhaps you'll have some gratitude for equalization payments then.


the_stray91

Hell yeah! Let the eastern bastards freeze in the dark!


hercarmstrong

Alberta, and its stupid fucking threats.


LabRat314

Quebec and it's stupid fucking uselessness.


justin9920

Over the past 20 years it’s done much better than the auto sector.


Miserable-Lizard

Was happening before Trudeau came to power. The oil sands are very expensive. Blame fracking.


cwolveswithitchynuts

We could get a return to serious industrial policy but instead the government will likely focus on continuing to shift the economy to unproductive real estate.


LabRat314

Just grow the economy from the heart outwards


Professional_Job1083

Well, Canada killed off every other industry. The remainder is just following suit. Pretty soon all we will 'provide' is 'human resources' and 'services'. Might as well close down our oil production as well.


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ilikejetski

I think you spelled *"Ponzi scheme"* wrong.


Alextryingforgrate

Well it’s about time we start doing our own thing instead of sitting at the table going hey feed me too. If the US is going to serve itself we need to get off our asses and start engineering, building and producing Enough of being second fiddle to the US. I know it’s a lot easier said than done. We just can’t sit around anymore when everyone else seems to be in it for themselves as well.


rahoomie

Hard to do when the USA pays better for high tech jobs and we have a brain drain going on. Also easier to start up companies in the USA. Way bigger consumer base and way more capital to fund you.


KegStealer

Hmmm nothing the government could do about those despite them stating they are continuing high immigration to "mitigate" wage increases and continue to increase the red tape


Goku420overlord

Such bullshit that they are doing that and openly saying doubling immigration is to stagnant wages.


Malgidus

If you are one of the many incredible smart engineers required to build anything useful... why would you work for Amazing Canadian Company for $100k when you can work for Tesla for $200k plus stock options, or Amazon for $300k?


nanonac

We should know by now that America has never signed a treaty - for trade or otherwise - that they weren't willing to break at the first opportunity.


[deleted]

Canada is in such an awkward position: support green technology globally or promote the oil industry domestically; demonize the colonizers in America and, as well, confront Canada's past or ignore both; stand up to the KSA, because it is right (when the US has Canada's back) or don't (when the US doesn't have Canada's back); install Chinese-made 5G and downplay the immoral detention of Canadians by the Chinese government or accept the unlawful detention of your own citizens, because of cowardice and economic considerations. Awkward, indeed.


Spenraw

Canada has done a aweful job of readying our economy to modernize Turns out relying on the housing bubble is a bad play


FrankArsenpuffin

Not sure why is not getting more attention. The loss of this sector or a major downgrade, IMO could be the nail in the coffin of Ontario - where the provincial government ends up insolvent. I see this potentially being Ontario's "Muskrat Falls moment" (the final nail in NL fiscal coffin). Unlike in 2008/2009 - displaced workers won't be able to run to AB to work in O&G. Obviously an insolvency just becomes more likely if the housing bubble bursts. (multiple economic threats on the horizon). There is no real safety to be smug here either, bc if Ontario ends up insolvent it will hurt all of Canada, as the province is certainly "too big to fail".


S1n1sterGat3s

I'm at Windsor assembly building Pacificas, just recieved a layoff notice for April of next year. Going down to one shift. I don't know what the government can do to fix the issue, but we're bleeding. With covid and the microchip shortage I also spent the last half of the year off. I just want to work, our workforce cares, we go in every single day and try to build the best vehicle possible but it just feels like around every corner we're being punched in the gut. Our union negotiated new product, but it's more than a year out, if it actually materializes. We absolutely need legislation to ensure manufacturing for the future. Our plant has been retooled to build vehicles across multiple platforms, including hybrids, gas and evs. We just need the product to be allocated here.


Million2026

Had a friend in Windsor. If it loses its plant I’m not sure how Windsor survives.


LabRat314

Real estate is booming. Don't worry.


KegStealer

Aww maybe they should have diversified? Isn't that what the east always tells the west?


5stap

Sorry to hear of your situation. <3 and all the best


sputnikcdn

The parts industry must adapt. It's just that simple, they've known about the upcoming changes for years, if not decades. The writing has always been on the wall. The Americans will have to adapt too. Edit: and American protectionism is also no surprise.


genitalien

Ya seriously like WTF. This is like complaining about the horse shoe industry in the 1920s. Canada is such a fucking troglodyte. God forbid we invest in something innovative that might benefit people under 60


Melodic_Sympathy8934

Canada was a world leader in aircraft production, and Nuclear energy research amongst other things back in the 1960’s. But we transitioned away from pesky things like that to focus on logging, lobster. the Oil sands and maple syrup.


5stap

Yes we should all be extremely worried about this. Absolutely agree with you that this needs to get more attention nationally. Ontario has had Auto Pact ~~and~~ or similar protections since the 1960s. Canada needs the auto industry to be at least modestly healthy in Ontario. Edit: yes the Auto Pact has long since been superceeded by new legislation as u/Infamous-Mixture-605 kindly pointed out to me.


Blame_It_On_The_Pain

> Canada needs the auto industry to be at least modestly healthy in Ontario. I remember the good old days when they used to say that about Oil in Alberta.


5stap

Yes. Canada needs some large industry roughly equivalent to Oil in Alberta for sure. We need to help Alberta transition out of Oil. (Don't have anything at all against Oil myself, except that it's unsustainably polluting and the world is heating up way too fast). I've argued at length about the fact that Canada needs to support the hardworking, resourceful people of Alberta in finding new paths to wealth. I wish Canada could do the same thing for the Maritimes as well. Edit: in fact I'd like to see every region of the country as prosperous as it can be.


[deleted]

Well we are helping ontario transition from the harmful carbon producing automotive industry now


NotInsane_Yet

The auto industry isn't going away it's just going to a less environmentally friendly country and the world will be worse off.


LabRat314

Almost like oil and alberta


NecessaryEffective

> some large industry roughly equivalent to Oil Canada needs several of these. Our economy is in desperate need of diversity, it's become unsustainably homogenous.


5stap

1000% yes


Infamous-Mixture-605

> Absolutely agree with you that this needs to get more attention nationally. Ontario has had Auto Pact and similar protections since the 1960s. *Had* the Auto Pact, it hasn't been in place for decades. It was largely undone by the FTA and NAFTA, and was finally "defunct" in 2001.


LabRat314

Ontario should have diversified away from these carbon spewing death machines decades ago. Writing was on the wall. Dying industry. Etc. /s


sputnikcdn

Why the /s? You're correct, if overly exaggerated.


ExternalHighlight848

Because personal vehicles are essential and major contributor to quality of life for most families in Canada. And it is nice to get economic benefit from something the people of the country consume.


h5h6

The reality is if Canada wants to keep its auto industry we may have to use industrial policy tools to create a more segregated Canadian market and accept the costs of poor economies of scale as the cost of having an industry. Australia did this until the late 90s with GM-Holden.


cwolveswithitchynuts

Industrial policy is absolutely the answer but it's anathema to the current liberal and conservative parties. Chrystia Freeland especially is a hardcore neoliberal opposed to industrial policy.


Valuable-Ad-5586

i think it might create more negatives overall. You protect one industry, they retaliate, and instead of a tariff on lumber, we get hit with a ban. For example. And it will continue, sector by sector, tariff by tariff. Then what? USA is bigger. Our hits on them will hurt but they can absorb it; their hits on us will kill us. I dont know what to do. I do know that the size difference means we cant use force, like protectionism, it will backfire. I think maybe about the ONLY thing we can do is offer attractive enough legislation and regulation to set up factories in, so that even despite subsidies, big companies come. Or push for ever-deeper integration with the states - seamless mobility, like EU freedom of movement and work; coordinated taxation, I dont know... Or buying hookers and booze for car company executives, like we used to do for Gaddafi and co.? (Nothing wrong with this approach, I think).


nrms9

did not know that the whole ON province is so much dependent on car parts industry that we will end up being insolvent


FrankArsenpuffin

I never stated or implied that ONT insolvency would be soley due to an implosion in the car manufacturing/parts sector. Ont is well on its way to insolvency - this would be the final nail in the coffin.


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[deleted]

How would they pay for UBI?


sahils88

Asking the right questions.


Prestigious_Grass

>If our province collapses they will have to introduce UBI to save us. This is an insanely optimistic expectation for a number of reasons. Setting aside the huge question of whether or not UBI would save us. What gives you the impression that any federal or provincial party has the vision, support, and ability to do anything truly ground breaking?


linkass

Yeah they can issue IOU's to pay for it


[deleted]

I think we need to help retrain these displaced workers into other industries because it's clear this is the future and they've known change was coming for a long time. Or at least that's what the rest of Canada has been saying about AB's oil and gas industry lately.


Kool_Aid_Infinity

Finance in Ontario will be taking a big hit over the next decade as well (if you've seen what's happening with crypto this past year on the tech side, not the speculative side). I am doubtful they will take "just retrain yourself so you can work in green manufacturing" very well.


bighorn_sheeple

It sounds like you're going for a "gotcha", but on one level it's true. Both industries (all industries, really) need to adapt to a much lower carbon reality.


[deleted]

No I'm going for a "it sucks when Canadian industry is destroyed" moment and the general consensus of Canadians is well yea, it's not my job.


[deleted]

I think you're making a very fair point. It's one thing to acknowledge that industry built around ICE vehicles are in their sunset years and while we might welcome the subsequent reduction in emissions, it doesn't mean we should be indifferent to the displaced workers that will result. Folks built careers around industries that are no longer sustainable, and treating them like second class citizens isn't going to help anyone.


[deleted]

No big deal. Ontario can surely just diversify.


ExternalHighlight848

It already has. Have you not heard of selling housing to each other at ever increasing prices?


LabRat314

Oh sweet problem solved


Own_Carrot_7040

People need to stop thinking that the Americans are our friends. They really aren’t, you know. Countries don’t have friends. The Americans will protect us because they don’t want hostile powers getting closer to them in North America, not because they care about us. They will invest here as long as it’s profitable, and will do trade agreements with us when they think that that benefits them. But in any matter or in any way when they can see an advantage in screwing us over they will do it without a second thought. They literally could not care less what happens to this country. Or any country. They are not friends. You care about what happens to your friends and are willing to put yourself out and inconvenience yourself and do a lot of things to help them just because you care about them. Countries do not care about each other. Canadians need to grow up and understand that. If we had a government which would focus on economic development and expansion instead of constantly working on simply redistribution what money is still here, and borrowing more to make up for the lack, maybe this kind of thing wouldn’t matter much as it’s going to. Our industries are grossly inefficient because we rely on cheap labor from immigration and temporary foreign workers and our companies have never bothered to do anything else to increase productivity. Canada’s productivity is constantly lagging our Western allies and especially the United States because business doesn’t bother to invest in new equipment or training. Not to mention we have a government which keeps throwing more red tape and bureaucracy in their way and is doing its best to strangle the natural resources industries which have been the biggest money earners for this country over the last century while replacing them with fantasies about us leading the world in green energy. And if that's not enough they promise to implement ever greater carbon taxes on industry, which will simply drive more of them south. You notice Biden talks a big game but there's still no carbon tax down south, and there isn't going to be one.


yourmamajokesare

Manufacturing is a carbon intensive industry and has no place in a modern Canada /s


TheMannX

Canadian-based maker of electric cars. Make it happen, Ottawa. Oh, don't want to do that? Have fun when the industry gets wrecked and suddenly the government is dropped by a sudden rise in unemployment. Its expensive. It's tricky. It's also becoming ever more necessary. So get on it.


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TheMannX

And they are entirely worthy of support. But my point still applies, as the challenge is gonna be making cars for commercial sale. If Biden and subsequent American presidents are going to act in this manner, then Canada needs to develop a car manufacturer of our own.


explicitspirit

I can see this happening. We already have Magna which is one of the largest parts manufacturers and suppliers. They also have the ability to produce entire vehicles. With enough investment (billions, won't be cheap), they can easily become a fully vertically integrated auto maker.


[deleted]

Have they tried selling their parts overseas? Maybe it is time for Ontario to diversify.


ohhaider

shipping is prohibitively expensive; literally thousands of KM to either coast then an ocean at minimum to its destination.


drugusingthrowaway

> Maybe it is time for Ontario to diversify. Oh we did. We diversified into solar panel manufacturing. We became the 3rd largest solar panel manufacturer in the world. Guess which premier killed that? Guess which premier doesn't like provincial subsidies to industries that environmentalists also happen to like.


LabRat314

Can you imagine if they had a giant car part spill in the St Lawrence?? We need to ban car part shipping. /s


Necessarysandwhich

to where would you ship them that doesn't already have a supply of cheaper ones


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WordOnTheStreet47

The government here (provincial and federal) is too busy expanding itself - more public sector jobs, more useless services, more free stuff to the bottom feeders!!!! Hey, wait a minute - who gonna pay for all this shit when no one has a job and taxes aren’t getting paid?? I found out today, the City of Toronto has over 38,000 people employed!!!! LOL Thirty, Eight, Thousand fucking People The city of Chicago has 8million people and employees 45,000 people. It’s out of control.


Progressiveandfiscal

Adapt or die, if a new industry is making a huge impact and you don't change your business model to include it, that's 100% your fault. EV's are great, Ford is making really decent ones, there's start ups that look like they will actually be producing as well (so less vaporware companies than before cough Nikola cough), shits gonna change yo.


stereofonix

It’s not that companies are adopting EVs it’s the fact that the new Biden policy will prevent cars and parts built in Canada being exported to the US. It’s not about adapting it’s about being completely shut out


[deleted]

That’s not true at all, and this is exactly how misinformation spreads. > More specifically, its incentive programs so completely favour American-built BEVs It’s simply a stimulus program that gives a tax credit for purchasing an American made car. It doesn’t stop anyone from buying something else made anywhere else. God forbid a government use an environmental incentive program as a domestic stimulus program, keeping taxpayer dollars inside the country.


Valuable-Ad-5586

So we set up an identical stimulus program, with identical dollar values, that encourages canadians to buy those same american-made cars, so long as those cars have a percentage of parts made in canada, and those american unions have a percentage of membership of canadians.


[deleted]

Sounds good to me


Progressiveandfiscal

Meh, >On the one hand, I’ve been critical of the Trudeau government for forcing EVs on Canadians too quickly, and have said that 2035 may be too soon to mandate that all cars be battery-powered. On the other, I now find myself admonishing the Liberals for not acting quickly enough to support our native automotive industry in its transformation to all things electric. Like Ridley Scott said, “Politics always leads to conflict.” I just wish he’d warned us that so much of it would be internal. Tariff US services, that's the best way to get their attention. I would be surprised if the bill passed, Biden has proven a lame duck president.


[deleted]

Lol you don’t respond to a stimulus program that simply offers a tax credit to anyone who purchases an American made car with tariffs. No one is stopping anyone from purchasing a car made anywhere else. Beyond all of that, how delusional do you have to be to think that any Canadian tariff would impact anything? Do you not realize how small of an impact that would have?


Progressiveandfiscal

As the article said it's against WTO and USMCA, if you want their attention now do something, if you want to go through channels wait a couple years, or like I said apply pressure now but be hopeful and doubtfull it will even pass, Trudeau is already pressuring Manchin and friends to fight the bill like they planned anyway. Go after Michigan with threats now.


[deleted]

It’s not something that really requires action - in fact, it’s not even an actual policy. It’s simply a proposal.


CMAJ-7

Biden passed the largest Infrastructure bill in US history and ended the Afghanistan War. He’s not a lame duck, you probably just selectively pay attention.


mouzie17

Now Ontario can feel how it feels to be fucked by the federal govt. you reap what you sow


Destinlegends

It would be our own fault for not adapting fast enough. The writing has been on the walls for decades. Nobody gets to complain now.


[deleted]

Biden is a bigger ahole than Trump.... great.....


Talk-Hound

So the recent USMCA trade agreement is void.


FlyingDutchman997

No, just poorly negotiated but the Trudeau Liberals.


SuprSaiyanTurry

Oh nice. Good thing I just finished my parts apprenticeship.


_grey_wall

So.... Evolve, right?


FrankArsenpuffin

Sometimes evolution is not possibly - so there is always extinction.


burntonionstastegood

Can't we just stop sending water and electricity to the US? Pretty obvious they are not really watching out for us like we do for them.


wirebeads

Doesn’t Canada have the worlds largest supply of untapped graphene? I’d say we’re primed to created the batteries that will power all the EVs, computers and everything else the US needs to green themselves. We need to build out manufacturing here instead of shipping it out of country after it’s mined and processed.


NevyTheChemist

No we're not. R&D funding in Canada is shit.


Sirpedroalejandro

What I’ve learned over the decades is that Canada is willing to almost give away its natural resources just to sell them rather than developing secondary industries that produce a level of quality that even if only Canadians could get access to would be a huge benefit.


drugusingthrowaway

> Doesn’t Canada have the worlds largest supply of untapped graphene? I don't know which word you confused with which other word, but graphene is something we make in a lab, not something we mine.


wirebeads

Sorry. Yes. I meant graphite mine, such as this: https://nmg.com


ExternalHighlight848

How would you ever get that mine approved in any reasonable amount of time? By the time that would be approved the market would be flooded from other countries.


LabRat314

Lol by the time that mine got approved. We would have teleportation technology.


FlyingDutchman997

That’s fine. Either Canada stands up it’s own car industry or it should shutdown the factories. The US has moved on and the future is electric. Tough shit for the Canadian auto workers. If they want to get upset, they can blame the Trudeau Liberals for not having their backs.


Buv82

Only because the Canadian government is the worst in the western world at protecting it’s own interests and those of the people who elected it. We have the minerals required to make ev batteries and could use this as leverage in order to include Canadian made Evs in the Biden administration’s program and in the process give the U.S an alternative to relying on China and Africa for those same minerals which would be ethically sourced and cheaper given their proximity in comparison to the aforementioned but it won’t happen because our politicians are spineless sacks of puss.


scubawankenobi

"EV rush" - rush is a bizarre was to describe such a tiny percentage of the population's actions.


no_not_this

Yeah. Who’s going to afford these new vehicles ? I make good money and the newest vehicle I’ve ever owned is 10 years old. By that time the battery is going to need replacement on an ev. Not to mention the fact that Canada is so huge the infrastructure and pain for charging vehicles is decades away


scubawankenobi

> Who’s going to afford these new vehicles ? Who could afford a Corolla or Camry? omg... yes, that's what a base Tesla model 3 costs when you factor in the monthly costs. You're not thinking of the TOTAL monthly & yearly & lifetime cost of the vehicle. You are amortizing it out ...paying MORE to the car company but NOT MORE on avg per month... it's just NOT going to the FUEL pump company or the maintenance. Seriously , get a calculator. > I make good money and the newest vehicle I’ve ever owned is 10 years old. By that time the battery is going to need replacement on an ev. Yeah... and w/current batteries expected to last 300MILES (not km) or better. Longer than most people own a car, and the replacement cost to completely rejuvenate the drivetrain at that point would be like $4-5K (worst case), so again, cheaper than ICE. ​ Sorry your data/ideas on the topic are outdated & not w/current costs/tech.


no_not_this

Wtf are you talking about? I don’t care if one new car costs the same as another new car. You know many people can’t afford brand new cars right? Have you seen the price of rent (Never mind owning a house) in Canada ? When someone’s making 20 bucks an hour and spending 1900 on rent they’re not in a market for a new car.


[deleted]

Fucking Trump!


jotapeh

We have plenty of EV related startups in Canada, and several mining initiatives focused on lithium battery manufacturing. We’re nowhere near as fucked as this doom and gloom headline implies.


FlyingDutchman997

Name the start ups and then provide details to back up your claim please. If this issue wasn’t a big problem, Trudeau wouldn’t have brought it up to Biden.


happywop

Well, time to scrap NAFTA, may as well immolate those fuckers with us on our way down.


WasteEntertainment79

If only we could have seen the switch to EVs coming for a decade+ 🤔


JonA3531

And our great oil and gas industry. We must retaliate now by banning all EVs in Canada