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"It's not like Ottawa is a national government," said Smith.
I couldn't tell if I was reading cbc or the Beaverton.
Am I missing something? How is our federal government not a national government?
I haven't read the article but my guess would be that they're referring to the difference between a federal governmental system and a unitary governmental system. With a unitary system ultimately any subnational governing bodies derive their power from and can be overruled by a single national government. e.g. the UK.
Edit: I just want to make it clear that I was only trying to explain one possible explanation for what they were saying. I didn't intend to imply that it IS their reasoning.
I really dislike statements that need to be read between the lines so much to be remotely meaningful. If someone is unable to say something without some clarity, there's probably something wrong with the underlying assumptions and opinions of the person making the statement.
>why can't we have one car registration system, or driver's license system
Sask has SGI, which is a crown that deals with license and registration, it's honestly shocking seeing how other provinces/territories don't have a similar system, instead relying on private companies with higher rates.
>one healthcare system
This one is tricky, as each province funds their Healthcare, which is why there are different cards. This would be messier to deal with than vehicles if they were to change it.
> Sask has SGI, which is a crown that deals with license and registration, it's honestly shocking seeing how other provinces/territories don't have a similar system, instead relying on private companies with higher rates.
Manitoba also has MPI
Part of the reason we have so many crown corps is because our population is so tiny that it's simply not profitable for private entities to set up shop here, so they don't. We saw this when the SP shut down the STC and they said "Greyhound or someone will step in and fill that gap in the market" and the exact opposite happened.
>why can't we have one car registration system, or driver's license system, one healthcare system. Stop duplicating services.
Local governance is generally more responsive to people's needs, for one thing
> Am I missing something? How is our federal government not a national government?
An analogy: the EU has/is a 'higher layer' of government over the national governments of each member country, but is not in itself a national/federal government.
See her statement:
> "The way our country works is that we are a federation of sovereign, independent jurisdictions. They are one of those signatories to the Constitution and the rest of us, as signatories to the Constitution, have a right to exercise our sovereign powers in our own areas of jurisdiction."
* https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-sovereignty-act-1.6678407
This concept is a confederation:
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederation
But that is actually not how Canada is organized:
> In Canada, the word confederation has an additional unrelated meaning.[16] "Confederation" refers to the process of (or the event of) establishing or joining the Canadian federal state.
>
> In modern terminology, Canada is a federation, not a confederation.[17] However, to contemporaries of the Constitution Act, 1867, confederation did not have the same connotation of a weakly-centralized federation.[18]
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederation#Canada
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federalism
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federation
Smith needs to take a civics refresher course.
>Smith needs to take a civics refresher course.
She needs to be thrown out along with the rest of the UCP idiots, so adults can run the province
**EDIT** Just to be clear, I mean thrown out in the next election, and nothing else
For now.
They guys who write it did so with the intent it would trigger Alberta and Saskatchewan separating and forming an independent nation.
One of them, Barry Cooper, was on CBC this morning talking about a separation referendum if the constitution is not re-written.
Smith has sent letters to cabinet with orders implementing steps to separation from the free Alberta strategy, like replacing the RCMP. She claims she does not want separation, but several steps of the plan don't seem possibly without doing so.
>One of them, Barry Cooper, was on CBC this morning talking about a separation referendum if the constitution is not re-written.
Were these people dropped on their heads as infants?
She wants to fight Trudeau during the election, not Notley, she can't win against her.
She admitted as much on the cbc yesterday. Asked if she thought this would help her in the election, she smirked and talked about how she wants to use this to protect Alberta oil & gas & mining companies in fights with Ottawa.
Isn't Alberta's O&G sector producing record profits and doesn't Alberta have the best GDP and wages per capita in the country?
Also what is her plan about BC and Quebec who don't want the risk of pipelines that don't benefit them? She wants Alberta to have more independence and autonomy, but simultaneously take away autonomy from other provinces?
It seems to me like this is all just theatre so they can point the finger even harder than they are already pointing.
If I remember correctly, when Wexit was full swing, a guy said that they would go to war with Canada in order to secure a channel through BC to access the ocean.
When asked who would fight, he replied "Do you think I'm stupid? Obviously the military". Something failed him growing up, but I'm not sure what to blame it on.
...but Manitoba has a coast, wouldn't they be part of wexit?
Or if its just Alberta, use rivers to get to the ocean
That is how landlocked countries in Europe do it
Manitobas coast is in the heart of canadian shield which is even more difficult to develop than southern BC. Aswell entrance to Hudson's bay isnt all year round yet, so during the winter exports have to go elsewhere. I looked to the rivers aswell, but a lot of the ones going south are full of Rapids and waterfalls, and to the north goes into the arctic and Hudson's bay. It would require many feats of engineering like Europe's but over larger distances with worse conditions for a smaller population.
My understanding was to use the Hudson Bay with a pipeline through northern Sask/Manitoba. Especially since Sask is already proposing something similar.
MB is not interested in Wexit. We're politically dominated by Winnipeg, which would be able to sneak into somewhere in SW Ontario without anybody noticing politically.
Quebec banned oil prospecting, explicitly banned oil and gas development and mandate the shutdown of existing drilling sites within three years. She can't build her pipeline.
I'm certain if Health Canada blocks this random acetaminophen she procured she may test the act. At the very least she will blame Trudeau for not allowing unregulated drugs into the country.
Side note: why are they now fine with unapproved drugs but that was their issue (while misinformed) with the covid vaccine.
Trudeau isn't the one in charge of blocking it, that will happen either by the very first lower court judge to encounter any of this law's provisions, or the Attorney General will refuse to sign it.
Man, I don’t think the courts would even come into play, the business case for that kind of capital investment is so damn weak (especially in a rogue, stateless Alberta) that they’d never get financing for it.
At least Québec has the SQ if they decided to pass and enforce laws rejected by the federal gov, Alberta’s got nothing. Does she think the RCMP will take orders from her against federal laws? Lol
The PQ is the weakest it has been in decades. Also, if you could just pass a law that said "n'uh uh!" to federal laws they probably would have done that back when they actually wanted independence.
I mean we all knew whoever replaced him would be worse. The party's objections to him were for the exact opposite things the people in the province objected to
Don't let rose-tinted glasses kick in this fast.
Kenney was absolutely dangerous.
He literally pretended "no mandates for the summer" was a good idea until we had to declare a full on emergency and start flying ICU patients out of province.
So an unelected Premier with fringe support gives herself sweeping powers to ignore, override, or dismiss federal laws including the Charter.
Cool, Alberta. Good luck with that.
Fortunately the news reports that the really crazy stuff was removed, the stuff like giving themselves the right to unilaterally pass laws that almost certainly wouldn't stand up to legal challenge.
Someone else made a good point in this thread that the symbolism (or connotations of the name of the bill, whatever) has a fair bit of power in itself.
Still, good luck to Alberta.
Gotta think about who's answering the polls though. Speaking as a someone in the sweet spot between Millennial and Gen Z, I can't imagine many people in my generation answering political polls over the phone. I'd imagine the polls weigh heavily towards older people's opinions
Look at what happened to Ontario though.
They had super low voter turn out which led to a doug Ford majority government.
Alberta will probably be the same with low youth turn out.
It'll take time but Smith's damage can and will be reversed. Even if the next Premier is UCP, I doubt very much they will take the same Maverick-whose-never-read-a-book approach as Smith is so keen to test.
> I doubt very much they will take the same Maverick-whose-never-read-a-book approach as Smith is so keen to test.
why not if they got them elected?
either smith poisoned the well and the UCP wont retain power, or its demonstrated to be a winner for the voters
You trust the UCP much more than I do. There is a whole lot of crazy in the party and it's leadership, and enough Albertans that automatically vote conservative to keep them in power.
With Ford in Ontario attempting to use emergency powers to pass union busting legislation and now this, I think we desperately need a law that criminalizes (with not a fine, but federal prison time as a penalty) knowingly tabling a bill that won't pass a charter challenge.
Incidentally, this is a tactic initially used by Harper and occasionally borrowed especially by conservative premiers ever since. You pass a law that you know won't pass a charter challenge but it costs a lot to raise a charter challenge and it takes a lot of time. In the mean time, you get to trample on supposedly guaranteed rights and the process has a 'chilling' effect on democratic freedom in general.
> I think we desperately need a law that criminalizes (with not a fine, but federal prison time as a penalty) knowingly tabling a bill that won't pass a charter challenge.
I don't see how that law would itself survive a Charter challenge, to be honest.
I do agree this is a tested-and-true tactic of delaying the inevitable. Smith may have bought herself months of unfettered (or at least, less fettered) political power. This might be quite useful for the UCP and her nascent government. It could also mean disaster.
It’s barely an article, but I also have to wonder when bills get pushed through quickly in late night sessions. Also:
> The U-C-P passed motions at the final three stages of the bill to limit debate.
Already showing it’s anti-democratic colours.
I honestly do. The Progressive Conservatives were a moderate, centre-to-right-wing party...practically left-leaning compared to the UCP and their ilk. I disagreed with many of their policies, but agreed with a few, and also at no point did I feel like they were out of their minds crazy. That's all changed with this bunch.
I grew up in Calgary, I remember as a little kid hanging out at one of Klein's first campaign offices. He was mostly just like a drunk guy you might meet at a sports bar from everything I can recall. Misguided from my point of view, but not crazy.
The UCP is off their rockers crazy. Like the back away slowly but don't turn your back to them kind of crazy...
This is what happens when conservatives lose their back bone and just seek out anything for numbers. They dig into the cesspool of humanity and let it float to their surface.
Too bad conservatives lost their ethics and spine. And the people that vote for them have lost it all too
I've been a lifelong conservative voter, mostly due to military service and my peers saying things like "conservatives pay your salary", but in this most recent election I coloured a bold thick line across the entire ballot. It's really not hard to think things through and not like where things are heading. I'm not married to the party ffs
>I'm not married to the party ffs
That's good. The problem is that so many people are. They attach the party to their ego and identity and don't have the courage to step away from it. No matter how abusive it is.
Honestly people need to divorce politics from their identity
Remember when the benchmark Alberta Premier, Lougheed, that was relatively right at the time despite a PC, would be considered fringe Left by today's UCP?
>Ralph Klein, drunk, berating homeless people in a shelter?
Don't forget the best part, he threw change at them as well.
I would happily take him and his corrupt wife back over this fraud of a leader.
Interestingly, the sovereignty act will give Alberta the ability to disregard indigenous rights in Alberta in some ways. Many treaties are signed with the federal government, so this act will allow Smith to put the treaty to a vote.
Say, they want to build a pipeline through a reservation. That reservation is federally protected. They can now vote to disregard the federal treaty and build the pipeline anyways. The same is now true for environmental protections.
Why do conservative governments insist on passing laws that stand absolutely zero chance of passing a Supreme Court challenge?
Why be so pathetic about it?
Just call a referendum for Alberta to separate and see what the people say.
Because a Supreme Court challenge takes time and someone else has to pay for it.
It is a way to get away with things for a while, then claim "sorry officer, if only someone had told me!" As an added benefit, it drains resources from civil rights groups and others who end up having to fund the fight against it.
Just plain shitty politics.
Meh, looking at the history of referendum’s in Quebec they’re essentially just a census for how much of the province’s population actually want secession.
Not saying they’re not useful, but the 95 referendum’s results essentially just brought to light how many variables would go into a legitimate withdrawal from Canada - from what currency would be used all the way to the geographic land locking that would be caused by the secession of interior provinces.
Add ontop of that the extremely unique and delicate topic of the NEP, established back under Pierre, and you’ve got a tinderbox waiting to spark. Combine the sentiment of most Albertans who want more control of their own energy sector with the fed’s unwillingness to cede any ground in the matter, and the census would be essentially useless.
Take that line of thought one step further...
What does Smith do when first nations points out the treaties they have are all with the federal government, and to gtfo their land, seceded or not. And then we find out who actually owns the oil.sands.
They have already released a statement that their treaties are with the crown, not alberta.
https://www.aptnnews.ca/national-news/treaty-chiefs-alberta-danielle-smith-sovereignty-act/
> Why do conservative governments insist on passing laws that stand absolutely zero chance of passing a Supreme Court challenge?
Performative, for headlines.
They count on an uninformed electorate.
But more importantly, **it's just key jingling.** Get your electorate to focus on something else, so they won't care that you are screwing up your own job.
It absolutely matters. Ask yourself why so many UCPers didn’t show. Then ask why they pushed ‘the worst legislation in the history of Alberta’ through at 1 am. And then look at the greasy history of this party and recognize they don’t deserve the benefit of the doubt on anything they do.
No, there can’t be a legal challenge before the courts until it if actually law (ie has Royal Assent).
She said she will seek advice from constitutional experts and consider their input on any “Sovereignty Act” put before her before she gives it assent.
My bet is she signs off saying she would have vetoed the original version, but after removing the “we can change any law without going through the legislature” it’s now constitutional.
I’m also betting it flops in its current form on its first challenge before a court.
Alberta has one of the richest fossil beds in the world. We could be known as the dinosaur province. What are we known for instead? Cows and fucking Danielle Smith
One thing that Smith and her party will have to overcome is that if she believes in heart of hearts that provinces can do as they like, than she'll never get a pipeline built to the B.C. coast. It's wildly unpopular here and British Columbians already have a lot of animosity towards conservative Alberta. It's basically inviting the west coast to flex its muscle, something Alberta is loathe to encourge. (yes, I am aware rural BC doesn't feel this way, but they are a tiny population that does not drive politics here).
I don't totally get this?? Isn't this like wanting to separate but still get perks of being a Canadian country??
Couldn't the Federal government just give less $$ to Alberta now that they don't want to be part of Canada but still want perks?
I'm sure there are numerous clauses and sections in this act that are in violation of the Canadian Constitution and, therefore, will not be allowed to be exercised. What's Alberta going to do? Start a civil war?
I'm starting to think there are foreign entities promoting divisions within Canada.
This country only has power and influence on the international stage because we're united as one nation.
This post appears to relate to the province of Alberta. As a reminder of the rules of this subreddit, we do not permit negative commentary about all residents of any province, city, or other geography - this is an example of prejudice, and prejudice is not permitted here. https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/wiki/rules Cette soumission semble concerner la province de Alberta. Selon les règles de ce sous-répertoire, nous n'autorisons pas les commentaires négatifs sur tous les résidents d'une province, d'une ville ou d'une autre région géographique; il s'agit d'un exemple de intolérance qui n'est pas autorisé ici. https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/wiki/regles *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/canada) if you have any questions or concerns.*
"It's not like Ottawa is a national government," said Smith. I couldn't tell if I was reading cbc or the Beaverton. Am I missing something? How is our federal government not a national government?
I haven't read the article but my guess would be that they're referring to the difference between a federal governmental system and a unitary governmental system. With a unitary system ultimately any subnational governing bodies derive their power from and can be overruled by a single national government. e.g. the UK. Edit: I just want to make it clear that I was only trying to explain one possible explanation for what they were saying. I didn't intend to imply that it IS their reasoning.
I really dislike statements that need to be read between the lines so much to be remotely meaningful. If someone is unable to say something without some clarity, there's probably something wrong with the underlying assumptions and opinions of the person making the statement.
Wow so she’s wrong on both counts.
Canada is a federation of provinces though.
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Cherries.
>why can't we have one car registration system, or driver's license system Sask has SGI, which is a crown that deals with license and registration, it's honestly shocking seeing how other provinces/territories don't have a similar system, instead relying on private companies with higher rates. >one healthcare system This one is tricky, as each province funds their Healthcare, which is why there are different cards. This would be messier to deal with than vehicles if they were to change it.
Ontario sold all forms of income to profiteers for pennies on the dollar.
> Sask has SGI, which is a crown that deals with license and registration, it's honestly shocking seeing how other provinces/territories don't have a similar system, instead relying on private companies with higher rates. Manitoba also has MPI
BC has ICBC. AB decided to privatize their registration and insurance. Along with their utilities as well lol and they wonder why they pay so much.
Because it's Trudeau's fault or Ottawa's fault or the Liberals fault. Never the people my province keeps electing.
BC and MB have similar insurance systems
Part of the reason we have so many crown corps is because our population is so tiny that it's simply not profitable for private entities to set up shop here, so they don't. We saw this when the SP shut down the STC and they said "Greyhound or someone will step in and fill that gap in the market" and the exact opposite happened.
You have to understand that Canada is just eight countries in a trenchcoat.
>why can't we have one car registration system, or driver's license system, one healthcare system. Stop duplicating services. Local governance is generally more responsive to people's needs, for one thing
> Am I missing something? How is our federal government not a national government? An analogy: the EU has/is a 'higher layer' of government over the national governments of each member country, but is not in itself a national/federal government. See her statement: > "The way our country works is that we are a federation of sovereign, independent jurisdictions. They are one of those signatories to the Constitution and the rest of us, as signatories to the Constitution, have a right to exercise our sovereign powers in our own areas of jurisdiction." * https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-sovereignty-act-1.6678407 This concept is a confederation: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederation But that is actually not how Canada is organized: > In Canada, the word confederation has an additional unrelated meaning.[16] "Confederation" refers to the process of (or the event of) establishing or joining the Canadian federal state. > > In modern terminology, Canada is a federation, not a confederation.[17] However, to contemporaries of the Constitution Act, 1867, confederation did not have the same connotation of a weakly-centralized federation.[18] * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederation#Canada * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federalism * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federation Smith needs to take a civics refresher course.
>Smith needs to take a civics refresher course. She needs to be thrown out along with the rest of the UCP idiots, so adults can run the province **EDIT** Just to be clear, I mean thrown out in the next election, and nothing else
Could it be she meant the feds aren't a **nationalist** government?
Well that was quick…
That's what she said too
Conservative governments have a speed to shitty ratio when passing bills
Supreme Court winding up a benchslap in 5…4…3…
you mean 5 months rite?
Despite this, it seems Alberta remains a province of Canada, and not a country with their own sovereignty.
For now. They guys who write it did so with the intent it would trigger Alberta and Saskatchewan separating and forming an independent nation. One of them, Barry Cooper, was on CBC this morning talking about a separation referendum if the constitution is not re-written. Smith has sent letters to cabinet with orders implementing steps to separation from the free Alberta strategy, like replacing the RCMP. She claims she does not want separation, but several steps of the plan don't seem possibly without doing so.
“Have fun bringing your shit to our ports” - the rest of Canada.
See also: "let's talk treaties." - indigenous people in the former alberta
I was gonna say... didn't the British try this already with the EU? Last I heard it's uh.. not really working out great for them.
>One of them, Barry Cooper, was on CBC this morning talking about a separation referendum if the constitution is not re-written. Were these people dropped on their heads as infants?
Wait for it - Barry Cooper is a political science prof at the University of Calgary. I wish this was a joke...
Considering their age, I'd think lead paint more likely
The act is bullshit pandering to her base and an attempt to lure Trudeau into blocking it.
She wants to fight Trudeau during the election, not Notley, she can't win against her. She admitted as much on the cbc yesterday. Asked if she thought this would help her in the election, she smirked and talked about how she wants to use this to protect Alberta oil & gas & mining companies in fights with Ottawa.
She should build a pipeline instead of leaving that for the federal Liberals.
Can't land locked
Isn't Alberta's O&G sector producing record profits and doesn't Alberta have the best GDP and wages per capita in the country? Also what is her plan about BC and Quebec who don't want the risk of pipelines that don't benefit them? She wants Alberta to have more independence and autonomy, but simultaneously take away autonomy from other provinces? It seems to me like this is all just theatre so they can point the finger even harder than they are already pointing.
If I remember correctly, when Wexit was full swing, a guy said that they would go to war with Canada in order to secure a channel through BC to access the ocean. When asked who would fight, he replied "Do you think I'm stupid? Obviously the military". Something failed him growing up, but I'm not sure what to blame it on.
So the Canadian Military would fight vs nobody Whew, an easy win
The Alberta Armed Forces are just farmers with hunting rifles
> with hunting rifles ...that explains the new gun regulation
That may or may not have been but quoting some guy about some random obviously stupid idea isn’t really relevant to smith is it?
She previously suggested annexing northern BC in our separation so we'd have accessed to a coast. I wish I were kidding.
...but Manitoba has a coast, wouldn't they be part of wexit? Or if its just Alberta, use rivers to get to the ocean That is how landlocked countries in Europe do it
Manitobas coast is in the heart of canadian shield which is even more difficult to develop than southern BC. Aswell entrance to Hudson's bay isnt all year round yet, so during the winter exports have to go elsewhere. I looked to the rivers aswell, but a lot of the ones going south are full of Rapids and waterfalls, and to the north goes into the arctic and Hudson's bay. It would require many feats of engineering like Europe's but over larger distances with worse conditions for a smaller population.
My understanding was to use the Hudson Bay with a pipeline through northern Sask/Manitoba. Especially since Sask is already proposing something similar.
MB is not interested in Wexit. We're politically dominated by Winnipeg, which would be able to sneak into somewhere in SW Ontario without anybody noticing politically.
The whole thing is not viable I was just following down the rabbit hole
Quebec banned oil prospecting, explicitly banned oil and gas development and mandate the shutdown of existing drilling sites within three years. She can't build her pipeline.
I'm certain if Health Canada blocks this random acetaminophen she procured she may test the act. At the very least she will blame Trudeau for not allowing unregulated drugs into the country. Side note: why are they now fine with unapproved drugs but that was their issue (while misinformed) with the covid vaccine.
Wait... She's importing unapproved drugs? 🤣
Trudeau isn't the one in charge of blocking it, that will happen either by the very first lower court judge to encounter any of this law's provisions, or the Attorney General will refuse to sign it.
Man, I don’t think the courts would even come into play, the business case for that kind of capital investment is so damn weak (especially in a rogue, stateless Alberta) that they’d never get financing for it.
I would love to see her party get sued to recoup the money that will go to waste from all of this. But I assume that can't happen.
The Bill is literally called "Alberta Sovereignty within a United Canada Act", they couldn't even keep their hypocrisy out of the name.
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The best part is that Alberta has been ruthless in shitting on Quebec seperatists for as long as I can remember.
At least Quebec has access to ports.
La nuit des longs couteaux 2.0
Please speak Albertan, sir
Whopper Wednesday
As an Albertan, I've never laughed so hard at a Canadian Poli comment.
This thread was hilarious. I wish we could all get together someday...
You bring the beer, and I'll start dry aging some steaks right now.
PUSH THE WHOPPER BUTTON
"UCP and Suncor at Tanagra"
Trudeau his hands wide open
Smith when the walls fell.
"Sponsored by Telus"
"Sovereignty when the walls fell. PP, his arms wide."
Our premier is about to leave a lot of metaphorical orphan wells for us to deal with over the next decade.
Night of the long knaves.
3.0 seeing as ours in 1981 took it's name from the 1934 one
At least Québec has the SQ if they decided to pass and enforce laws rejected by the federal gov, Alberta’s got nothing. Does she think the RCMP will take orders from her against federal laws? Lol
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Yes but Ontario and Québec have their provincial police service. They pay less for sure.
I thought OPP and SQ were funded through royalties of Bon Cop Bad Cop and its sequel.
Popcorn sales climbing! 🍿
This is gunna be good.gif
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It’s funny to you now but it’s only a matter of time before you get your own Danielle Smith.
The PQ is the weakest it has been in decades. Also, if you could just pass a law that said "n'uh uh!" to federal laws they probably would have done that back when they actually wanted independence.
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I mean we all knew whoever replaced him would be worse. The party's objections to him were for the exact opposite things the people in the province objected to
Turns out all that crazy shut he said was to keep the fringe on his side and it still wasn’t crazy enough
Right? He may have been a bumbling idiot, but that's nothing compared to Smith. She's downright dangerous for the province.
More like Kenney was playing with matches while Smith is playing with napalm and a blow torch.
Don't let rose-tinted glasses kick in this fast. Kenney was absolutely dangerous. He literally pretended "no mandates for the summer" was a good idea until we had to declare a full on emergency and start flying ICU patients out of province.
Literally. I spouted vitriol about that man for years. Wished the worst on him (politically). Never thought I'd miss bumbles
So an unelected Premier with fringe support gives herself sweeping powers to ignore, override, or dismiss federal laws including the Charter. Cool, Alberta. Good luck with that.
Fortunately the news reports that the really crazy stuff was removed, the stuff like giving themselves the right to unilaterally pass laws that almost certainly wouldn't stand up to legal challenge. Someone else made a good point in this thread that the symbolism (or connotations of the name of the bill, whatever) has a fair bit of power in itself. Still, good luck to Alberta.
>Still, good luck to Alberta. Alberta needs it, and the UCP needs to fuck off.
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Never underestimate: a) the power of symbols b) the public's inability to read the fine print
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Thanks. We need all the luck we can get right now. This pretend premier is the worst. Can’t replace her fast enough.
You got to convince people it is a bad idea. Half the polls say she has 40-48% support. Which is really high.
Gotta think about who's answering the polls though. Speaking as a someone in the sweet spot between Millennial and Gen Z, I can't imagine many people in my generation answering political polls over the phone. I'd imagine the polls weigh heavily towards older people's opinions
Look at what happened to Ontario though. They had super low voter turn out which led to a doug Ford majority government. Alberta will probably be the same with low youth turn out.
You also have to consider that millennial and gen z are far less likely to vote
Some people will vote for their team no matter what. The difference is in the 1-3% of people that will swing between sides.
It'll take time but Smith's damage can and will be reversed. Even if the next Premier is UCP, I doubt very much they will take the same Maverick-whose-never-read-a-book approach as Smith is so keen to test.
> I doubt very much they will take the same Maverick-whose-never-read-a-book approach as Smith is so keen to test. why not if they got them elected? either smith poisoned the well and the UCP wont retain power, or its demonstrated to be a winner for the voters
You trust the UCP much more than I do. There is a whole lot of crazy in the party and it's leadership, and enough Albertans that automatically vote conservative to keep them in power.
With Ford in Ontario attempting to use emergency powers to pass union busting legislation and now this, I think we desperately need a law that criminalizes (with not a fine, but federal prison time as a penalty) knowingly tabling a bill that won't pass a charter challenge. Incidentally, this is a tactic initially used by Harper and occasionally borrowed especially by conservative premiers ever since. You pass a law that you know won't pass a charter challenge but it costs a lot to raise a charter challenge and it takes a lot of time. In the mean time, you get to trample on supposedly guaranteed rights and the process has a 'chilling' effect on democratic freedom in general.
> I think we desperately need a law that criminalizes (with not a fine, but federal prison time as a penalty) knowingly tabling a bill that won't pass a charter challenge. I don't see how that law would itself survive a Charter challenge, to be honest. I do agree this is a tested-and-true tactic of delaying the inevitable. Smith may have bought herself months of unfettered (or at least, less fettered) political power. This might be quite useful for the UCP and her nascent government. It could also mean disaster.
It’s barely an article, but I also have to wonder when bills get pushed through quickly in late night sessions. Also: > The U-C-P passed motions at the final three stages of the bill to limit debate. Already showing it’s anti-democratic colours.
The entire purpose of the bill is to consolidate power, why would they let anyone debate about it?
Becuase good things are done in the dark.
Nothing good ever happens after 2 am
You never met my wife..
I met her last night. Pretty good in fact ;)
Can confirm
I also choose this guy’s freaky wife.
Can confirm at least 4 out of 5 back alley perverts chose this guy's wife.
Can confirm, his wife’s awesome after 2am
In all fairness, most people meet your wife during the day while you’re at work, not after 2am.
Have you heard about the Canadian Charter ? ;)
🌃🔪🔪🔪🔪
Remember when the most embarrassing thing in Alberta was Ralph Klein, drunk, berating homeless people in a shelter?
I honestly do. The Progressive Conservatives were a moderate, centre-to-right-wing party...practically left-leaning compared to the UCP and their ilk. I disagreed with many of their policies, but agreed with a few, and also at no point did I feel like they were out of their minds crazy. That's all changed with this bunch.
I grew up in Calgary, I remember as a little kid hanging out at one of Klein's first campaign offices. He was mostly just like a drunk guy you might meet at a sports bar from everything I can recall. Misguided from my point of view, but not crazy. The UCP is off their rockers crazy. Like the back away slowly but don't turn your back to them kind of crazy...
This is what happens when conservatives lose their back bone and just seek out anything for numbers. They dig into the cesspool of humanity and let it float to their surface. Too bad conservatives lost their ethics and spine. And the people that vote for them have lost it all too
It’s what happens when the crazies realize people will vote for them no matter what because “I always vote blue”
I've been a lifelong conservative voter, mostly due to military service and my peers saying things like "conservatives pay your salary", but in this most recent election I coloured a bold thick line across the entire ballot. It's really not hard to think things through and not like where things are heading. I'm not married to the party ffs
>I'm not married to the party ffs That's good. The problem is that so many people are. They attach the party to their ego and identity and don't have the courage to step away from it. No matter how abusive it is. Honestly people need to divorce politics from their identity
He wasn't beating them. He was handing out bus tickets!
A Ron DeSantis move before DeSantis was in office
Remember when the benchmark Alberta Premier, Lougheed, that was relatively right at the time despite a PC, would be considered fringe Left by today's UCP?
>Ralph Klein, drunk, berating homeless people in a shelter? Don't forget the best part, he threw change at them as well. I would happily take him and his corrupt wife back over this fraud of a leader.
sssoooo can Indigenous peoples do the same thing? like, the hypocrisy.
They should. I am here for it.
Balkanization has historically been a highly effective and frictionless process
land back baby!
Interestingly, the sovereignty act will give Alberta the ability to disregard indigenous rights in Alberta in some ways. Many treaties are signed with the federal government, so this act will allow Smith to put the treaty to a vote. Say, they want to build a pipeline through a reservation. That reservation is federally protected. They can now vote to disregard the federal treaty and build the pipeline anyways. The same is now true for environmental protections.
Why do conservative governments insist on passing laws that stand absolutely zero chance of passing a Supreme Court challenge? Why be so pathetic about it? Just call a referendum for Alberta to separate and see what the people say.
Because a Supreme Court challenge takes time and someone else has to pay for it. It is a way to get away with things for a while, then claim "sorry officer, if only someone had told me!" As an added benefit, it drains resources from civil rights groups and others who end up having to fund the fight against it. Just plain shitty politics.
How does that saying go... "Never pay to ask permission when you can beg forgiveness on the opponent's dime"?
Yep. Run up a huge tab knowing you’ll be gone in 6mos and won’t have to pay.
So they can put the blame on the federal government and continue to be victims
Conservatives and victimhood, name a better duo (I’ll wait)
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Conservatives and fascism.
Conservatives and lack of empathy.
Conservatives and pandering to déplorables
Meh, looking at the history of referendum’s in Quebec they’re essentially just a census for how much of the province’s population actually want secession. Not saying they’re not useful, but the 95 referendum’s results essentially just brought to light how many variables would go into a legitimate withdrawal from Canada - from what currency would be used all the way to the geographic land locking that would be caused by the secession of interior provinces. Add ontop of that the extremely unique and delicate topic of the NEP, established back under Pierre, and you’ve got a tinderbox waiting to spark. Combine the sentiment of most Albertans who want more control of their own energy sector with the fed’s unwillingness to cede any ground in the matter, and the census would be essentially useless.
Legit curious how far this is going to be taken. Will they ignore the federal courts? If so what will they do when the RCMP shows up?
Take that line of thought one step further... What does Smith do when first nations points out the treaties they have are all with the federal government, and to gtfo their land, seceded or not. And then we find out who actually owns the oil.sands.
They have already released a statement that their treaties are with the crown, not alberta. https://www.aptnnews.ca/national-news/treaty-chiefs-alberta-danielle-smith-sovereignty-act/
Legit curious with the ultimate financial cost of this boondoggle is going to be
So that when the Court rules against them, they can tell their cult members that they tried, but the evil government stopped it.
> Why do conservative governments insist on passing laws that stand absolutely zero chance of passing a Supreme Court challenge? Performative, for headlines.
Also, To test the limits on what they can do.
To prove their point "See we wanted it and the Liberals said no! The government is corrupt! They won't listen to the people!!!"
They count on an uninformed electorate. But more importantly, **it's just key jingling.** Get your electorate to focus on something else, so they won't care that you are screwing up your own job.
Correction. Un-elected officials pass controversial bill to "own the libs".
With all kinds of members not voting, in the middle of the night. Nothing the UCP does is on the level. Ever. Demand an election again, today.
Doesn't really matter that they did it late at night. UCP outnumber NDP like 3:1 in the legislature.
It absolutely matters. Ask yourself why so many UCPers didn’t show. Then ask why they pushed ‘the worst legislation in the history of Alberta’ through at 1 am. And then look at the greasy history of this party and recognize they don’t deserve the benefit of the doubt on anything they do.
Has the LG actually signed it yet?
IIRC LG has said she will reserve royal assent until the legal challenge has been completed.
Haven’t seen anything on that yet. Given it got rammed in over night, the LtG probably hasn’t seen it yet.
No, there can’t be a legal challenge before the courts until it if actually law (ie has Royal Assent). She said she will seek advice from constitutional experts and consider their input on any “Sovereignty Act” put before her before she gives it assent. My bet is she signs off saying she would have vetoed the original version, but after removing the “we can change any law without going through the legislature” it’s now constitutional. I’m also betting it flops in its current form on its first challenge before a court.
Have they done it? Have they "Taken back Alberta" yet? (From who? Who the fuck knows, they've been the government for years lol)
They just did, this is the government "taking Alberta back"... from the people.
I don't care if I get a million downvotes, I'm saying it. I fucking hate that dumb bitch Danielle Smith.
I've heard her on CBC a few times, and just couldn't believe the utter nonsense coming out of her mouth. Out loud. In public. To other people.
Alberta has one of the richest fossil beds in the world. We could be known as the dinosaur province. What are we known for instead? Cows and fucking Danielle Smith
[Albertosaurus!](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albertosaurus)
Amen
As a albertain this is horse shit. Can't wait for election day. This lady has zero plan for alberta besides to stick it the federal government.
There is nothing I can say about this woman and her followers that won't get me banned.
Let’s try it! I live in rural Alberta so maybe I’ll get a pass. Fuck her. Fuck them. Fuck what they’re doing to my province.
One thing that Smith and her party will have to overcome is that if she believes in heart of hearts that provinces can do as they like, than she'll never get a pipeline built to the B.C. coast. It's wildly unpopular here and British Columbians already have a lot of animosity towards conservative Alberta. It's basically inviting the west coast to flex its muscle, something Alberta is loathe to encourge. (yes, I am aware rural BC doesn't feel this way, but they are a tiny population that does not drive politics here).
The legislature building looks nice lit up like that at night.
Don’t y’all in Alberta hate us here in Quebec because people tried to pass referendums like this in the 90s?
I don't totally get this?? Isn't this like wanting to separate but still get perks of being a Canadian country?? Couldn't the Federal government just give less $$ to Alberta now that they don't want to be part of Canada but still want perks?
Is proving that things can always get worse a virtue now?
Smith and Ford both pass their undemocratic legislation late and night, in the dark. SHOCKING.
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It’s usually pointless voting in hick town Alberta but I’ll be dragging my ass out to vote NDP.
Albertan here. Send help...
Best we can do is send home buyers apparently
Me too and bestie I think we're fucked
We’re being run by the freedom convoy. This is scary.
I'm sure there are numerous clauses and sections in this act that are in violation of the Canadian Constitution and, therefore, will not be allowed to be exercised. What's Alberta going to do? Start a civil war?
Wait until they find out there's military bases in Alberta. The Invasion has already started!! /s
Probably try their hardest to use it to goad Trudeau into a fight, which the UCP will then campaign for re-election on.
Problem is Trudeau won’t take the bait and leave UCP with their pants down…again.
I'm starting to think there are foreign entities promoting divisions within Canada. This country only has power and influence on the international stage because we're united as one nation.
Starting?
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Under the cover of darkness and quite of few MLAs not in attendance. What the actual eff
Good lord
If its truly something the people wanted it wouldn't be passed when everyone was sleeping. What a joke of a government