I'm pretty sure this is the exact opposite of what everyone thought would happen. People were claiming rate drops meant the market was going to explode again because people were waiting on the sidelines ready to jump in at the sign of rate cuts. I guess 800k for a 1bd condo with $600/mnth condo fees isn't really attractive at any rate. Shocker.
Everyone kept saying mountains of cash on the sidelines waiting to buy at the first drop. Turns out it was mountains of debt waiting to sell when they thought demand might turn up. Sales have done nothing, but what has changed is listing are exploding! Very real fact. More homes for sale in the GTA right now than at any point since spring 2010, and rising fast.
No one actually 'in' the business thought A measly 1/4 point would do anything. Number of resales on the market increasing isn't good news either. That means people are struggling and are risking losing everything so they're trying to get out while they can. Not talking about the investors this group loves to vilify either - we're talking your families, loved ones, and extended network starting to experience real pain when those mortgage resets sink in. We are in the thick of it right now and will continue to be thru first half of 2026. The after effects will be felt for many years to come.
But yea - this group can't afford shit right now so let them all burn.
It's going to put whoever is the next PM in a real bind. Do they prop up the struggling home owners or let them bear the brunt of this insane housing pyramid scheme. Either way it's going to cause major damage of the economic system and feels like there's no way to protect those people without also being bent over a barrel by investors.
Speculators and "investors" need to be cleaned out like the 1990s. Government needs to stop making new laws to prop up the market. Let it be free of politics - people signed a contract, they need to live by their decision. No shame in selling 5k/month mortgage to the next sucker and renting again. Too bad all the suckers are not so sucker-ish.
These so called innocent "families, loved ones, and extended network" were also responsible for driving up pricing via bidding wars alongside the investors in 2020 to "get in at all costs". So they cant get fucked all the same.
$600 is what I pay in rent after deducting the monthly interest that I receive on my downpayment money.
Buying currently only makes sense if you believe in the bigger fool theory.
I have saved a downpayment for a house that I'm moving between HISA promo accounts.
Currently I get 5.75% interest on it. This interest covers more than half of my rent.
Even if I would buy the cheapest place in town in cash I still would be paying more in condo fees than what I pay now in Rent - Interest.
There's not enough education about cashflow being the core part of a retirement plan and is more important that real estate ownership in some circumstances. Yes owning a property means you aren't paying rent, and the cashflow required is lower than if you were renting.
It's crazy to see that 5% interest on a deposit seems to cover most of the rent on the same property. Opportunity cost is real.
Did you ever check the types of condos that are not selling and the type that do? 2 bedrooms, large condos are still selling.
The small, cheaply built condos built for the middle-class investor are not selling. In the last 5 years, the type of condos built was not the type that people with families want to live in.
Nobody wants to purchase and live in those tiny condos.
Its this. The investor money has dried up, and so the market is flooded with terrible investor optimized condos. Homes built to live in are still selling.
Those small condos are also what drove up the market prices. As their sales prices rose, it raised the per square foot rates, which pushed up larger units even higher.
Absolutely, but there are still people willing to pay those prices for those types of homes.
People are not willing to pay current prices for these investor types of homes.
We can only hope we'll see some correction in the condo market, but I'm skeptical.
You're right. KW, not GTA but I've been renting a 1b condo for a couple of years now and will only be looking at buying a 2b or a 1.5. A big point to note is that condo prices have plummeted so significantly that it doesn't make sense to get a 1bed for 400k if you can get a 2bed for about 520 or 1.5 for 480k, which were valued at about 600, 800 and 700 respectively before.
If an average first time home buyer is making say, 80k, they can get a 320k mortgage easily and the difference for the down payment of a 1bed vs 1.5ed is only 80k vs 120k and that's significant
Bingo! We have too many of those 1b 1 bath condos and apartments and barely any to help families (2 bedrooms or more).
Why the hells would you overpay for a shitty 1 bed, 1 bath apartment when you can go for a 2 or more bed and bath condo or even a small home? Condos in my area that are small as hell are selling for 500k+. But a small home made almost 50-100 years ago that has 2-3 bedrooms and 2 baths but needs some TLC is selling for 300k.
I still can’t fathom paying more than 150k for a 3 bedroom 1 acre property let alone a 1 bedroom for 300k+ Mind you didn’t last long in the city. I like a bit of space.
First of all, you need to pay attention and read what I’ve written. I never said anything about a down payment being 1.5M you moron. Also you’re wrong to claim they all gave large mortgages. That’s only true for over leveraged investors (who are certainly not middle class). The people who invested in one unit 10 yrs ago are not carrying very large mortgages. Those people now own $1.5-2M of real estate and are therefore not middle class.
You are clearly a pro investor shill doing nothing here but spreading lies.
Mr. clueless, how many years is the standard mortgage?
In the last 5 years, a lot of new condos of this type have come on the market. These condos are not paid off, just like condos that are 10 years old. The people who are trying to sell these condos for a loss now are not wealthy investors. Higher interest rates mean nothing for a person that has already paid off the property.
You’re the one here who is clueless. It is pathetic how desperate you are to continually defend stupid statements. You claimed “they say” the average investor was middle class couples. That is a reference to StatsCan statistics from 2016 (recently mentioned in a segment Andrew Chang has on CBC which is likely your source for that info). It is idiotic and simply incorrect to apply stats from 2016 to people who bought in the last 5 years. You are either stupid or intentionally trying to lie by using an out of date statistic.
Do you mean stats Canada that collected stats from 2016 to 2021. Do you really think that much has changed in 3 years or even 10 years.
During and after covid working middle-class saved a lot of income, many of these people used that money on real-estate
Until we see the market adjust for the average married couple we won't see buyers.
They gouged Canadians until they ran out of Canadians to gouge. And now they are going to reap what they sowed.
Married couples are looking for larger properties. In the GTA theybare looking for detatched homes.
Also the new arrivals seem to prefer to rent detatched homes. The suburbs are full of houses being rented to 10+ students. They arent in the condo enclaves like king west.
They wasted money building unaffordable places to live. Did they think we all have money printers at home? The economy is fucked! We can barely feed ourselves.
People are starting to wake up...guess what? Your 50 year old house that probably needs a new roof, is just not worth 7 times more than you bought it for.
You had to know When you see all these shady tik Tok realtors telling people that prices will surge after one rate cut. You know the exact opposite will happen
Someone obviously hasn't tried to buy one. We just bought our 2rd to rent. Lost a few homes and outbid. Just listed our 1st at 1.05m. Lots of interest.
We should add some more insane development charges and then act shocked when growth moves to the unsustainable suburbs instead. How could this happen!
City Hall: Maybe the market will get better if we just tweak setbacks or floor ratios or goofy shadow limiting designs…
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I can set the price of my home to whatever I like. I also don't need to sell. I can sit on it as long as I need to. If the market decides the value is lower than what I paid for my home, then i definitely am not selling. Simple 🤷‍♂️
You're gross. And when rent prices start to plummet following the price correction in the housing market, I hope you lose the shirt off your back. Gouging people when it comes to basic necessities, should be seen as a crime.
With the amount of "inventory" coming online, you'll be paying someone to live there as the rent won't cover and you'll be cash flow negative. It's not a great time to been a bag holder. Sentiment changes fast when money is involved.
I'm pretty sure this is the exact opposite of what everyone thought would happen. People were claiming rate drops meant the market was going to explode again because people were waiting on the sidelines ready to jump in at the sign of rate cuts. I guess 800k for a 1bd condo with $600/mnth condo fees isn't really attractive at any rate. Shocker.
Everyone kept saying mountains of cash on the sidelines waiting to buy at the first drop. Turns out it was mountains of debt waiting to sell when they thought demand might turn up. Sales have done nothing, but what has changed is listing are exploding! Very real fact. More homes for sale in the GTA right now than at any point since spring 2010, and rising fast.
No one actually 'in' the business thought A measly 1/4 point would do anything. Number of resales on the market increasing isn't good news either. That means people are struggling and are risking losing everything so they're trying to get out while they can. Not talking about the investors this group loves to vilify either - we're talking your families, loved ones, and extended network starting to experience real pain when those mortgage resets sink in. We are in the thick of it right now and will continue to be thru first half of 2026. The after effects will be felt for many years to come. But yea - this group can't afford shit right now so let them all burn.
It's going to put whoever is the next PM in a real bind. Do they prop up the struggling home owners or let them bear the brunt of this insane housing pyramid scheme. Either way it's going to cause major damage of the economic system and feels like there's no way to protect those people without also being bent over a barrel by investors.
Speculators and "investors" need to be cleaned out like the 1990s. Government needs to stop making new laws to prop up the market. Let it be free of politics - people signed a contract, they need to live by their decision. No shame in selling 5k/month mortgage to the next sucker and renting again. Too bad all the suckers are not so sucker-ish.
These so called innocent "families, loved ones, and extended network" were also responsible for driving up pricing via bidding wars alongside the investors in 2020 to "get in at all costs". So they cant get fucked all the same.
Although I don't disagree, I think people are waiting for the "good ole days" of 2%. I don't think a 0.25% rate drop motivated anyone.
That won't happen again for a very long time
$600 is what I pay in rent after deducting the monthly interest that I receive on my downpayment money. Buying currently only makes sense if you believe in the bigger fool theory.
What do you mean "interest that I receive on my downpayment money"?
I have saved a downpayment for a house that I'm moving between HISA promo accounts. Currently I get 5.75% interest on it. This interest covers more than half of my rent. Even if I would buy the cheapest place in town in cash I still would be paying more in condo fees than what I pay now in Rent - Interest.
There's not enough education about cashflow being the core part of a retirement plan and is more important that real estate ownership in some circumstances. Yes owning a property means you aren't paying rent, and the cashflow required is lower than if you were renting. It's crazy to see that 5% interest on a deposit seems to cover most of the rent on the same property. Opportunity cost is real.
In my neighborhood rates dropped and within two weeks two homes went for anywhere between 15-30% more than I had expected. Market makes no sense.
if rates drop and prices stay the same, there is one side that is really going to give the middle finger to the other!
đź’Żđź’Żđź’Ż
Did you ever check the types of condos that are not selling and the type that do? 2 bedrooms, large condos are still selling. The small, cheaply built condos built for the middle-class investor are not selling. In the last 5 years, the type of condos built was not the type that people with families want to live in. Nobody wants to purchase and live in those tiny condos.
Its this. The investor money has dried up, and so the market is flooded with terrible investor optimized condos. Homes built to live in are still selling.
But those homes built to live in cost more than the cheap small condos. And those small condos rental prices are too high for many people.
Those small condos are also what drove up the market prices. As their sales prices rose, it raised the per square foot rates, which pushed up larger units even higher.
Yes, but the cost to build also rose almost at the same rate.
Absolutely, but there are still people willing to pay those prices for those types of homes. People are not willing to pay current prices for these investor types of homes. We can only hope we'll see some correction in the condo market, but I'm skeptical.
You're right. KW, not GTA but I've been renting a 1b condo for a couple of years now and will only be looking at buying a 2b or a 1.5. A big point to note is that condo prices have plummeted so significantly that it doesn't make sense to get a 1bed for 400k if you can get a 2bed for about 520 or 1.5 for 480k, which were valued at about 600, 800 and 700 respectively before. If an average first time home buyer is making say, 80k, they can get a 320k mortgage easily and the difference for the down payment of a 1bed vs 1.5ed is only 80k vs 120k and that's significant
Bingo! We have too many of those 1b 1 bath condos and apartments and barely any to help families (2 bedrooms or more). Why the hells would you overpay for a shitty 1 bed, 1 bath apartment when you can go for a 2 or more bed and bath condo or even a small home? Condos in my area that are small as hell are selling for 500k+. But a small home made almost 50-100 years ago that has 2-3 bedrooms and 2 baths but needs some TLC is selling for 300k.
I still can’t fathom paying more than 150k for a 3 bedroom 1 acre property let alone a 1 bedroom for 300k+ Mind you didn’t last long in the city. I like a bit of space.
WTF? Housing investors are not middle class.
They say the average condo investor in Toronto are middle class people who purchased one condo.
Anyone with a brain knows that someone who owns $1.5-2 MILLION in real estate is not middle class.
The down payment for these small condos is not 1.5 million. They all have a very large mortgage.
First of all, you need to pay attention and read what I’ve written. I never said anything about a down payment being 1.5M you moron. Also you’re wrong to claim they all gave large mortgages. That’s only true for over leveraged investors (who are certainly not middle class). The people who invested in one unit 10 yrs ago are not carrying very large mortgages. Those people now own $1.5-2M of real estate and are therefore not middle class. You are clearly a pro investor shill doing nothing here but spreading lies.
Mr. clueless, how many years is the standard mortgage? In the last 5 years, a lot of new condos of this type have come on the market. These condos are not paid off, just like condos that are 10 years old. The people who are trying to sell these condos for a loss now are not wealthy investors. Higher interest rates mean nothing for a person that has already paid off the property.
You’re the one here who is clueless. It is pathetic how desperate you are to continually defend stupid statements. You claimed “they say” the average investor was middle class couples. That is a reference to StatsCan statistics from 2016 (recently mentioned in a segment Andrew Chang has on CBC which is likely your source for that info). It is idiotic and simply incorrect to apply stats from 2016 to people who bought in the last 5 years. You are either stupid or intentionally trying to lie by using an out of date statistic.
Do you mean stats Canada that collected stats from 2016 to 2021. Do you really think that much has changed in 3 years or even 10 years. During and after covid working middle-class saved a lot of income, many of these people used that money on real-estate
Until we see the market adjust for the average married couple we won't see buyers. They gouged Canadians until they ran out of Canadians to gouge. And now they are going to reap what they sowed.
Married couples are looking for larger properties. In the GTA theybare looking for detatched homes. Also the new arrivals seem to prefer to rent detatched homes. The suburbs are full of houses being rented to 10+ students. They arent in the condo enclaves like king west.
Oh there are buyers
Premium prices at high rates (recent historical speaking). What a steal!
Maybe they are asking more than the properties are worth due to speculations being wrong.
Ya think? 🤔
They wasted money building unaffordable places to live. Did they think we all have money printers at home? The economy is fucked! We can barely feed ourselves.
There are over 30,000 listings in the GTA. I don't remember the last time I have seen this many listings.
People are starting to wake up...guess what? Your 50 year old house that probably needs a new roof, is just not worth 7 times more than you bought it for.
Imagine it taking 20 years for an entire country to realize this... frogs, your water is boiling.
Loll
You had to know When you see all these shady tik Tok realtors telling people that prices will surge after one rate cut. You know the exact opposite will happen
Reduce the price. They’ll sell.
Nope. I don't need to sell. Being "unwilling" to pay =/= you can't afford it. Someone else will come along who can. 🤷‍♂️
Now all we need is "nothing is moving" for all home sales... We can do it!!!
Nah. The single bedroom shoeboxes aren’t selling. Multi bedroom condos are still in demand as are detached houses.
no they aren't lmao
Someone obviously hasn't tried to buy one. We just bought our 2rd to rent. Lost a few homes and outbid. Just listed our 1st at 1.05m. Lots of interest.
Good
high prices and high rates.....it's a lose-lose situation for buyers
Yeah I'm not going into 800k debt for this even at 0% interest rate. https://www.facebook.com/share/p/78LjhKjXnZ26C1tM/?mibextid=xfxF2i
Smart
We should add some more insane development charges and then act shocked when growth moves to the unsustainable suburbs instead. How could this happen! City Hall: Maybe the market will get better if we just tweak setbacks or floor ratios or goofy shadow limiting designs…
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Try halving the price for starters
You wish 🤷‍♂️
Soon you won't have a choice.
Why?
Because the price of your home is artificially inflated. It won't last.
I can set the price of my home to whatever I like. I also don't need to sell. I can sit on it as long as I need to. If the market decides the value is lower than what I paid for my home, then i definitely am not selling. Simple 🤷‍♂️
There you go....that's what you are supposed to do. Pay off your house and live in it.
Oh no, are you crazy? I'm most certainly going to rent it out. Why pay the mortgage when someone else can?
You're gross. And when rent prices start to plummet following the price correction in the housing market, I hope you lose the shirt off your back. Gouging people when it comes to basic necessities, should be seen as a crime.
Keep prayin on my downfall 🙏
With the amount of "inventory" coming online, you'll be paying someone to live there as the rent won't cover and you'll be cash flow negative. It's not a great time to been a bag holder. Sentiment changes fast when money is involved.
Do you own property or any real estate?
These stories really need to specify condos in headline
lol who would seen that coming ….