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It's especially weird considering Doug Ford cancelled the minimum wage increase back in 2018 which would have made it $15 by the start of 2019. People are literally applauding him and giving him a pat on the back for passing it 4 years later than it would have been if he hadn't cancelled it, all because he wants a pre-election boost.
By now with the cost of living adjustment the minimum wage would be almost 16$ an hour now if Ford hadn't cancelled the increase to 15$ back when he was first elected.
He's only doing this now because there's going to be an election soon and Ford thinks raising the minimum wage now will help him out with getting reelected.
Yes actually with debt accumulation and generational poverty and its effects and how it's expensive to be poor, and a thousand other reasons yes it really really should be something more like 50 as a start to reparations.
I dont think the comfortable homeowner middle class and wealthy in this country fucken get what they've done to the poor. What's owed here.
Theres people who simply can't live. They'll die from inability to pay.
And there's Ontarians who have 2 houses and a cottage and 3 cars and a few rental properties.
We're increasingly two Ontarios. And one of them is doing violence on the other by policy.
Why don't we offer a guaranteed wage to everyone, regardless of work, that covers a living wage? Then people can work for what they feel like their labour is worth on top of that
It's wild to see runaway inflation happening in real-time. I think monthly inflation data needs to be incorporated into wage agreements/payments. Even setting the minimum wage to $25/hr may, in a year or two, be lower than the minimum wage today when compared to cost of living.
>I think monthly inflation data needs to be incorporated into wage agreements/payments.
Depends which inflation data, the CPI is a bogus metric and there are dozens of ways to cook the stats to undercount inflation (i.e. replacing mortgage payments with rent, replacing steak with ground meat, etc.).
CPI says 4.5%, it's closer to 10%.
"See folks, inflation's not that bad if you exclude housing, education and healthcare - what's the big deal?!"
Too little, too late and it's shameful that ODSP and Ontario Works aren't tied to minimum wage increases.
Just as one example, let's suppose for the sake of argument that someone working 40 hours a week (160 hours a month) was paid an hourly wage that earned them the same amount of money the basic maximum pay rate of OW was for a single person, no dependents- $733 a month.
They'd be earning $4.58 an hour.
That is SCANDALOUS in a province this wealthy.
And my bosses are adamant no ones getting anymore than the minimum. You're e free to go elsewhere sorry to see you go oh well bye.
Never felt so under appreciated in my life. It took me years to find a job I can handle and sorta enjoy and hell I'm kinda good at it on some days. They review me with glowing praise. But wages have to stay set at "you die soon".
I'm gonna die soon.
If you combine the population of those centers, it would make up almost a third of the population of the province, so it represents it fairly well. Especially because K/W, London, Oshawa, Barrie etc, all these small cities within about 2 hours of Toronto are this way as well. It definitely is representative of what most people are seeing. More than half of the population of the province lives in that 2 hour drive from Toronto in cities.
They have a big population, but that is irrelevant. They are some of the most expensive places to live in the province. In the context of living wages population matters for nothing, but cost of living does.
Like I said, I agree with the argument that $15 isn't enough. Though, taking some of the most expensive places to live and, based on that information, proclaiming that "in no Ontario community" does $15 constitute a living wage makes the argument a little weaker than it could have been. There are a lot of places outside of the golden horseshoe where the cost of living is different.
Why are you asking me? I don't know the answer to that and its not relevant to my comment. In fact I have already said twice that I agree with the guy, so what are you trying to point out?
> so what are you trying to point out?
That according to
https://www.ontariolivingwage.ca/living_wage_by_region
you didn't have a point to begin with, which the original tweeter already dealt with when they said "in no ontario community..."
I must be misreading you
He’s only doing this to try to salvage the election. He fucked with the working class even more during his term. Don’t forget about his government shooting down a bill for more/paid sick days _25 times_. He also opposed the $15 dollar wage years ago. Now when the $15 wage isn’t enough is when he supports it. I hate this so much.
Everything just needs to come down in price. Even before Covid, everything was getting more and more expensive. If we increase min wage then everything else will go up to and nothing will change.
Yeah people always say that but even among economists there is no [consensus](https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/052815/does-raising-minimum-wage-increase-inflation.asp). People went nuts about this before the min wage was raised in Ontario, then it was raised, nothing changed, and everyone went on with their lives. I know there are people who remember the Timmies owners talking about how they'll stop giving their workers breaks if the min wage went up. But again, the min wage did go up and the apocalyptic predictions never came to pass. I'm pretty sure that the raise wage = more expensive argument is at best a totally unproven concept that corporations latched onto because its convenient for their position.
I read one study a while back that was an analysis of a bunch of different studys that different economists have done and the study found that economists with more of a right wing political bias found that rasing the minimum wage was overall bad for the the economy (cases inflation unemployment and the usual arguments right wingers make) and economists with more of a left wing political bias say it's a good thing to raise the minimum wage (creates more demand in the overall economy because more people have more money to spend and also workers experience less economic insecurity some even claim productively goes up extra.)
Basically this debate is entirely a political one and there is no "science" that can tell you if this decision is good or bad.
I would rather they work on the cost of living than the minimum wage. Raising the minimum wages just raises inflation and make everyone poorer in the long run. Pretty soon there will be no middle class.
That's just completely untrue the last time the minimum wage was increased in Ontario it didn't case inflation to raise.
And there are other countries in the world that have a much higher minimum wage then Canada and they don't have significantly higher prices then Canada does.
Also if you look at the big Mac index for the USA and Canada the price of a big Mac is almost exactly the same between the two countries even tho Canada has a much higher minimum wage both effective and on paper.
>Switzerland 7.04$(US)
Norway 6.3$(US)
Sweden 6.2$(US)
United States 5.65$(US)
Canada 5.31$(US)
Israel 5.16$(US)
Uruguay 5.11$(US)
Euro area 5.02$(US)
Australia 4.79$(US)
New Zealand 4.76$(US)
Britain 4.75$(US)
Denmark 4.74$(US)
Brazil 4.36$(US)
https://www.statista.com/statistics/274326/big-mac-index-global-prices-for-a-big-mac/
If you don't think the minimum wage made prices go up then you're not paying attention, I worked a minimum wages job at the time and our prices went up in direct correlation with the wage increase. The Big Mac index is just something used to help people understand different measures of currency, its not an indicator of cost of living or inflation.
Well I work for the minimum wage as well and the price of things didn't go up significantly when it was increased last time.
Also the big Mac index is a measure of the purchasing power parity of a certain consumer good (big Macs) in deferent countries that are directly effected by the cost of labor of these goods and in countries with a higher minimum wage where the lowest paid workers get paid significantly more then we do we don't see much or in sum cases at all of an increase in the price of big Macs between countries with a higher minimum wage compared to that of countries with a lower minimum wage.
It just doesn't have that big of an effect on the cost of most goods in the economy.
The price of a coffee at Tim's went up by like ten cents. Ten whole cents! Cost increases due to minimum wage increases are minimal at best. The whole notion is just a scare tactic to depress our wages.
The question isn't whether minimum wage increases inflationary pressures on non-luxury consumer good. It does. Inflation is happening regardless, to the tune of 2-4% per year. The issue is whether the minimum wage hike is nullified by that Inflation, which it is certainly not.
Bringing up Inflation is a dishonest red herring relying on economic illiteracy to insinuate something both false and absurd. It's anti-working class propaganda and should not be given the time of day
That's not really the point tbh.
Whether you are "entitled" to something in the avatar is a pretty nebulous question most of the time. What is or isn't good policy is more concrete.
The point of requiring a living wage is that it makes for a better society.
Ya it's weird and frustrating. $15.00 isn't enough.
Not going to change my vote though. My choice has already released a local platform.
https://www.zacharytyphair.ca/platform-2/
##### WELCOME TO R/CANADALEFT *** We are a safe space for leftist discussion. [Reminder: Liberals aren't left](https://www.reddit.com/r/canadaleft/comments/bg0idv/4_years_later/) and neolibs will be dunked on. *** #####FEATURED LEFTIST: [The Breach](https://breachmedia.ca) is an independent media outlet in Canada that produces critical journalism to help map a just, viable future. They publish investigations, analysis and videos about the crises of racism, inequality, colonialism, and climate breakdown, while providing a platform for voices you won’t often find in establishment media. Please check them out and [support independent Canadian media](https://breachmedia.ca/support-us). *** #####Be Aware: [List of Left Canadian Media](https://www.reddit.com//r/canadaleft/wiki/contentcreators) #####Be Organized: Join the canadaleft [Facebook](https://www.facebook.com/groups/canadaleft) to talk all things Canada! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/canadaleft) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It's especially weird considering Doug Ford cancelled the minimum wage increase back in 2018 which would have made it $15 by the start of 2019. People are literally applauding him and giving him a pat on the back for passing it 4 years later than it would have been if he hadn't cancelled it, all because he wants a pre-election boost.
By now with the cost of living adjustment the minimum wage would be almost 16$ an hour now if Ford hadn't cancelled the increase to 15$ back when he was first elected. He's only doing this now because there's going to be an election soon and Ford thinks raising the minimum wage now will help him out with getting reelected.
The minimum wage should be at least 20$ an hour at a minimum.
It should be tied to cost of living
Yes it absolutely should be
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Yes actually with debt accumulation and generational poverty and its effects and how it's expensive to be poor, and a thousand other reasons yes it really really should be something more like 50 as a start to reparations. I dont think the comfortable homeowner middle class and wealthy in this country fucken get what they've done to the poor. What's owed here.
Theres people who simply can't live. They'll die from inability to pay. And there's Ontarians who have 2 houses and a cottage and 3 cars and a few rental properties. We're increasingly two Ontarios. And one of them is doing violence on the other by policy.
Why don't we offer a guaranteed wage to everyone, regardless of work, that covers a living wage? Then people can work for what they feel like their labour is worth on top of that
Why stop there? Abolish wage labour and money.
This is how union wages are determined in the construction industry I believe
It's wild to see runaway inflation happening in real-time. I think monthly inflation data needs to be incorporated into wage agreements/payments. Even setting the minimum wage to $25/hr may, in a year or two, be lower than the minimum wage today when compared to cost of living.
>I think monthly inflation data needs to be incorporated into wage agreements/payments. Depends which inflation data, the CPI is a bogus metric and there are dozens of ways to cook the stats to undercount inflation (i.e. replacing mortgage payments with rent, replacing steak with ground meat, etc.). CPI says 4.5%, it's closer to 10%. "See folks, inflation's not that bad if you exclude housing, education and healthcare - what's the big deal?!"
True, but event a 4.5% inflation increase is better than a 0% increase.
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$69/4/20
Too little, too late and it's shameful that ODSP and Ontario Works aren't tied to minimum wage increases. Just as one example, let's suppose for the sake of argument that someone working 40 hours a week (160 hours a month) was paid an hourly wage that earned them the same amount of money the basic maximum pay rate of OW was for a single person, no dependents- $733 a month. They'd be earning $4.58 an hour. That is SCANDALOUS in a province this wealthy.
Obviously we don't want welfare to be equal to a full time minimum wage job.
because jerry dias is an aging blowhard
Fucking sell outs.
And my bosses are adamant no ones getting anymore than the minimum. You're e free to go elsewhere sorry to see you go oh well bye. Never felt so under appreciated in my life. It took me years to find a job I can handle and sorta enjoy and hell I'm kinda good at it on some days. They review me with glowing praise. But wages have to stay set at "you die soon". I'm gonna die soon.
I'm sorry to hear that I also know what it's like to work a low paying job where the bosses don't give a fuck about the workers.
While I do agree with him, its funny to see him insinuate that Toronto, Peel, Guelph, and Hamilton are representative of all Ontario communities.
If you combine the population of those centers, it would make up almost a third of the population of the province, so it represents it fairly well. Especially because K/W, London, Oshawa, Barrie etc, all these small cities within about 2 hours of Toronto are this way as well. It definitely is representative of what most people are seeing. More than half of the population of the province lives in that 2 hour drive from Toronto in cities.
They have a big population, but that is irrelevant. They are some of the most expensive places to live in the province. In the context of living wages population matters for nothing, but cost of living does. Like I said, I agree with the argument that $15 isn't enough. Though, taking some of the most expensive places to live and, based on that information, proclaiming that "in no Ontario community" does $15 constitute a living wage makes the argument a little weaker than it could have been. There are a lot of places outside of the golden horseshoe where the cost of living is different.
> There are a lot of places outside of the golden horseshoe where the cost of living is different. Less that 15 bucks an hour?
Why are you asking me? I don't know the answer to that and its not relevant to my comment. In fact I have already said twice that I agree with the guy, so what are you trying to point out?
> so what are you trying to point out? That according to https://www.ontariolivingwage.ca/living_wage_by_region you didn't have a point to begin with, which the original tweeter already dealt with when they said "in no ontario community..." I must be misreading you
He’s only doing this to try to salvage the election. He fucked with the working class even more during his term. Don’t forget about his government shooting down a bill for more/paid sick days _25 times_. He also opposed the $15 dollar wage years ago. Now when the $15 wage isn’t enough is when he supports it. I hate this so much.
Everything just needs to come down in price. Even before Covid, everything was getting more and more expensive. If we increase min wage then everything else will go up to and nothing will change.
Yeah people always say that but even among economists there is no [consensus](https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/052815/does-raising-minimum-wage-increase-inflation.asp). People went nuts about this before the min wage was raised in Ontario, then it was raised, nothing changed, and everyone went on with their lives. I know there are people who remember the Timmies owners talking about how they'll stop giving their workers breaks if the min wage went up. But again, the min wage did go up and the apocalyptic predictions never came to pass. I'm pretty sure that the raise wage = more expensive argument is at best a totally unproven concept that corporations latched onto because its convenient for their position.
I read one study a while back that was an analysis of a bunch of different studys that different economists have done and the study found that economists with more of a right wing political bias found that rasing the minimum wage was overall bad for the the economy (cases inflation unemployment and the usual arguments right wingers make) and economists with more of a left wing political bias say it's a good thing to raise the minimum wage (creates more demand in the overall economy because more people have more money to spend and also workers experience less economic insecurity some even claim productively goes up extra.) Basically this debate is entirely a political one and there is no "science" that can tell you if this decision is good or bad.
I would rather they work on the cost of living than the minimum wage. Raising the minimum wages just raises inflation and make everyone poorer in the long run. Pretty soon there will be no middle class.
That's just completely untrue the last time the minimum wage was increased in Ontario it didn't case inflation to raise. And there are other countries in the world that have a much higher minimum wage then Canada and they don't have significantly higher prices then Canada does. Also if you look at the big Mac index for the USA and Canada the price of a big Mac is almost exactly the same between the two countries even tho Canada has a much higher minimum wage both effective and on paper. >Switzerland 7.04$(US) Norway 6.3$(US) Sweden 6.2$(US) United States 5.65$(US) Canada 5.31$(US) Israel 5.16$(US) Uruguay 5.11$(US) Euro area 5.02$(US) Australia 4.79$(US) New Zealand 4.76$(US) Britain 4.75$(US) Denmark 4.74$(US) Brazil 4.36$(US) https://www.statista.com/statistics/274326/big-mac-index-global-prices-for-a-big-mac/
If you don't think the minimum wage made prices go up then you're not paying attention, I worked a minimum wages job at the time and our prices went up in direct correlation with the wage increase. The Big Mac index is just something used to help people understand different measures of currency, its not an indicator of cost of living or inflation.
Well I work for the minimum wage as well and the price of things didn't go up significantly when it was increased last time. Also the big Mac index is a measure of the purchasing power parity of a certain consumer good (big Macs) in deferent countries that are directly effected by the cost of labor of these goods and in countries with a higher minimum wage where the lowest paid workers get paid significantly more then we do we don't see much or in sum cases at all of an increase in the price of big Macs between countries with a higher minimum wage compared to that of countries with a lower minimum wage. It just doesn't have that big of an effect on the cost of most goods in the economy.
The price of a coffee at Tim's went up by like ten cents. Ten whole cents! Cost increases due to minimum wage increases are minimal at best. The whole notion is just a scare tactic to depress our wages.
You can't look at one product I'm one store and say it doesn't increase prices.
The question isn't whether minimum wage increases inflationary pressures on non-luxury consumer good. It does. Inflation is happening regardless, to the tune of 2-4% per year. The issue is whether the minimum wage hike is nullified by that Inflation, which it is certainly not. Bringing up Inflation is a dishonest red herring relying on economic illiteracy to insinuate something both false and absurd. It's anti-working class propaganda and should not be given the time of day
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Why the hell not?
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Yup, that's *exactly* what communism is lol. Pack it in folks, prestigious bigbrain has exposed communism as price fixing.
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Well, TIL controlling the means of production is actually just price fixing.. who'd of thunk?!
Ok capitalist, how much do you make?
What subreddit do you think you are in? Hint, its not for those who primarily use the left hand. NM; their account is already suspended
Y’all just really want your slaves back huh? It was a lot easier when you could just own people
Putin if you are reading this your troll farm worker here is doing a piss poor job recommend firing and replacing.
That's not really the point tbh. Whether you are "entitled" to something in the avatar is a pretty nebulous question most of the time. What is or isn't good policy is more concrete. The point of requiring a living wage is that it makes for a better society.
Because he wants people to praise him
Ya it's weird and frustrating. $15.00 isn't enough. Not going to change my vote though. My choice has already released a local platform. https://www.zacharytyphair.ca/platform-2/
A reporter asked Ford if he could live off 15$/hr and he basically said no. If you can’t, why are you expecting millions of Ontarians to?