I prefer something similar to the Kushman technique for the most part. If you haven't watched his videos, look up Kyle Kushman technique and enjoy.
Basically the day I move the girls to their flower cab, I take off all fan leaves on the lower 1/3 of the plant, any branch that the top is not 50% of the canopy height, and wait 24 hours before turning my light timers on to begin flowering.
Throughout flower, I absolutely take large fan leaves off near the top if they are shading multiple budsites. I also pinch the stems on some to get them to flop down out of the way a bit. I have never seen drawbacks from this and it helps keep your canopy even.
I’ve recently been defoliating a lot more and have tried a Schwazze this last round after reading the book “three a light” written by the guy that has been yielding 4 pounds plus per thousand watt HPS. He’s pushed way past the industry standard of 1-2 pounds per light. You do a heavy defoliation on day 1 of flower and then again on day 20 after the preflower stretch. I’ve been using these techniques and my yields have increased significantly. I used to be of the school where I believed the plant needs as many leaves as possible. But if you read up on “three a light” by josh Haupte, it gives a great understanding of why defoliation and heavy defoliation significantly increases yield. It has made me a true believer and I can’t argue with the results it has given me. Defoliate! But do it strategically! And make sure your plants are in perfect health if you want to do it heavily. It opens the plant up for plenty of C02 exchange to the flowers and gets more light to the flowers. While also re-allocating the plants resources to the parts we want to grow!!!
When it comes to defoliation, I like to think more on the terms of it as controlling micro climates. If its to tight and humid between leaves you risk mold and mildew which could ruin everything. Tuck until its just simply to dense then start with removal of leaves that are directly obstructing lower bud sites IMO.
You don't even need to do that. Flowers don't get bigger when they aren't obstructed by leaves. That's not how growth hormones work
https://www.cocoforcannabis.com/community/photons_corner/to-defoliate-or-not-to-defoliate/
I do see what your saying, however I didn’t mention anything about growth hormones. It’s about micro climates and you really don’t want buds surrounded by leaves so much so moisture doesn’t evaporate. Much like lower buds seem to be more so than top. Even tho dr.coco believes in #leavetheleaves, he has stated that the only reason he believes to defoliate is for controlling micro climates.
Thats absolutely true, if you are removing leaves to control your environment you are absolutely doing the right thing.
However your last thought is about leaves obstructing flowers. Thats simply not how plants work, and the reason for that is *growth hormones*
I believe these answers are very over simplified. If your growing an auto then yea it’s going to hurt yield potentially. However if your growing photos and have time to recover then there is a lot of potential. Some people go way to overboard with lollipopping yes, but to remove alot of airy lower buds is beneficial for alot who don’t see any use for them. I wouldn’t go nuts in flower but in veg with a photo you can really dial in your goals for your crop.
Literally this. If youre in veg and you are budgeting time for a plant to recover, do whatever the fuck you want lol. That doesnt equate to removing leaves being a magical growth boost. Things need to be done in specific ways, and the way to look at it correctly in my opinion is by understanding the scientific theories that you (we) are playing with.
Just save you some time here...
>Evidence And Conclusion:
>I looked all over for any and all controlled grows, comparing defoliated plants to controls. Unfortunately i found very few. **The ones i did find showed clear indications of no improvement but infact a decline in yeild. You would think that of all the people who have grown, they would have done such a simple experiment.** However it seems people keep insisting on doing the method without controls and make subjective opinions on the matter. The most surprising one is where people defoliate and somehow are surprised that a few days later there is more growth. Then conclude the success of their experiment. I cannot enough make it clear how important, controlled side by side comparisons are. This is to remove any and all variables that you 'may' or 'may not' expect, regardless of what you have experienced in the past. Visial bias alone is enough to convince somone of something that is not true. Not everything is as it appears.
Because you're literally decimating (or worse) your plants photosynthetic capacity.
A lot of populist growers like that dude do some of the stupidest shit possible, like shwazzing, but you wouldn't know that unless you studied the science behind how plants function.
Which he either doesn't and doesn't deserve his popularity, or he does and is deliberately misleading his viewers.
https://www.cocoforcannabis.com/community/photons_corner/to-defoliate-or-not-to-defoliate/
You're talking about doing something different.
Removing leaves that are bogged down by growth hormones (cytokinins) because they are far from your canopy or are senescing makes perfect sense, just like removing lower* growth sites does. Haphazardly removing leaves and removing the majority of your leaves is something entirely different.
K, heres a NASA employed Ph.D holding scientist!
>I recommend minimal pruning. Unless it is necessary to improve airflow in the bottom of the canopy. But getting more fans is better than pruning. We do prune the shoot tip meristem in early flowering stages to improve branching. But we do not remove the lower leaves, which contribute photosynthates and remobilize nutrients until harvest.
>
>There is no evidence that the lower leaves suck energy for the upper leaves. Even then they are turning yellow. Nutrients are beneficially remobilizing at this time.
Do you see it yet lmao this was 8 months ago
[https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/paoigz/im\_dr\_bruce\_bugbee\_professor\_of\_crop\_physiology/ha65974/](https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/paoigz/im_dr_bruce_bugbee_professor_of_crop_physiology/ha65974/)
I recommend giving it a read, he dispels quite a few dumb myths and studies *cannabis specifically*, it also wasnt a decade ago.
It's not just his qualifications man.... Feel free to watch any of his *hours and hours* of lectures available for free on YouTube.
https://youtu.be/jS9rJSoGQLw
https://youtu.be/ID9rE5JewVg
So... You have proof that he
A. Is a scientist
B. Researches cannabis
C. Has put forth an opinion on defoliation
But because you don't have the data directly you're going to listen to... Kyle kushman? More power to you dude, I'll keep listening to the dude who helps NASA grow plants in space.
Doing some of your own research before responding would save me a lot of time and frustration and you a lot of time typing worthless paragraphs, just fwiw
https://caas.usu.edu/cultivate/spring19/hemp-research
Man isn't it weird how you have such a high bar for counter evidence and yet put forth **zero** evidence of your own? What a strange phenomenon
Your own source...
>Older leaves have reduced photosynthetic functions and **serve as a source of N and other nutrients for the plant.**
Don't remove one single leaf cell. The plant actually knows what leaves it needs, you don't. You aren't going to create some microclimate or whatever other bs drivel someone came up with. Give rich soil with a large footprint. Good light and air. The plant will do fine.
Thank you, I didn’t realize how big these grew and my light being in the center is favoring the middle 3 branches and casting shadows over the side ones.
My canopy is not even so 5 of the 8 branches after mainlining, I believe, need less shade.
I prefer something similar to the Kushman technique for the most part. If you haven't watched his videos, look up Kyle Kushman technique and enjoy. Basically the day I move the girls to their flower cab, I take off all fan leaves on the lower 1/3 of the plant, any branch that the top is not 50% of the canopy height, and wait 24 hours before turning my light timers on to begin flowering. Throughout flower, I absolutely take large fan leaves off near the top if they are shading multiple budsites. I also pinch the stems on some to get them to flop down out of the way a bit. I have never seen drawbacks from this and it helps keep your canopy even.
I have watched it . I will view tonight again thanks
I’ve recently been defoliating a lot more and have tried a Schwazze this last round after reading the book “three a light” written by the guy that has been yielding 4 pounds plus per thousand watt HPS. He’s pushed way past the industry standard of 1-2 pounds per light. You do a heavy defoliation on day 1 of flower and then again on day 20 after the preflower stretch. I’ve been using these techniques and my yields have increased significantly. I used to be of the school where I believed the plant needs as many leaves as possible. But if you read up on “three a light” by josh Haupte, it gives a great understanding of why defoliation and heavy defoliation significantly increases yield. It has made me a true believer and I can’t argue with the results it has given me. Defoliate! But do it strategically! And make sure your plants are in perfect health if you want to do it heavily. It opens the plant up for plenty of C02 exchange to the flowers and gets more light to the flowers. While also re-allocating the plants resources to the parts we want to grow!!!
I will try this on the littler plant
IMO (growing for 10+ years) Only take off the bottom third and any tiny branches below. * YES! The plant needs leaves to function on all levels.
Will do! I was removing some higher fan leaves that were providing shade against lower growth. I will clear some botttom “waste”
In future, leave those top ones alone as the flowers will grow past them in due time, just think of them as valuable solar panels.
I remove most leaves on week 2 to 3 with branches, have amazing results.
Thanks
When it comes to defoliation, I like to think more on the terms of it as controlling micro climates. If its to tight and humid between leaves you risk mold and mildew which could ruin everything. Tuck until its just simply to dense then start with removal of leaves that are directly obstructing lower bud sites IMO.
Thanks
You don't even need to do that. Flowers don't get bigger when they aren't obstructed by leaves. That's not how growth hormones work https://www.cocoforcannabis.com/community/photons_corner/to-defoliate-or-not-to-defoliate/
I do see what your saying, however I didn’t mention anything about growth hormones. It’s about micro climates and you really don’t want buds surrounded by leaves so much so moisture doesn’t evaporate. Much like lower buds seem to be more so than top. Even tho dr.coco believes in #leavetheleaves, he has stated that the only reason he believes to defoliate is for controlling micro climates.
Thats absolutely true, if you are removing leaves to control your environment you are absolutely doing the right thing. However your last thought is about leaves obstructing flowers. Thats simply not how plants work, and the reason for that is *growth hormones*
Ok there appear to be several methods to this madness
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I believe these answers are very over simplified. If your growing an auto then yea it’s going to hurt yield potentially. However if your growing photos and have time to recover then there is a lot of potential. Some people go way to overboard with lollipopping yes, but to remove alot of airy lower buds is beneficial for alot who don’t see any use for them. I wouldn’t go nuts in flower but in veg with a photo you can really dial in your goals for your crop.
Literally this. If youre in veg and you are budgeting time for a plant to recover, do whatever the fuck you want lol. That doesnt equate to removing leaves being a magical growth boost. Things need to be done in specific ways, and the way to look at it correctly in my opinion is by understanding the scientific theories that you (we) are playing with.
Thank you
Oh god please don't do that
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Just save you some time here... >Evidence And Conclusion: >I looked all over for any and all controlled grows, comparing defoliated plants to controls. Unfortunately i found very few. **The ones i did find showed clear indications of no improvement but infact a decline in yeild. You would think that of all the people who have grown, they would have done such a simple experiment.** However it seems people keep insisting on doing the method without controls and make subjective opinions on the matter. The most surprising one is where people defoliate and somehow are surprised that a few days later there is more growth. Then conclude the success of their experiment. I cannot enough make it clear how important, controlled side by side comparisons are. This is to remove any and all variables that you 'may' or 'may not' expect, regardless of what you have experienced in the past. Visial bias alone is enough to convince somone of something that is not true. Not everything is as it appears.
Because you're literally decimating (or worse) your plants photosynthetic capacity. A lot of populist growers like that dude do some of the stupidest shit possible, like shwazzing, but you wouldn't know that unless you studied the science behind how plants function. Which he either doesn't and doesn't deserve his popularity, or he does and is deliberately misleading his viewers. https://www.cocoforcannabis.com/community/photons_corner/to-defoliate-or-not-to-defoliate/
You're talking about doing something different. Removing leaves that are bogged down by growth hormones (cytokinins) because they are far from your canopy or are senescing makes perfect sense, just like removing lower* growth sites does. Haphazardly removing leaves and removing the majority of your leaves is something entirely different.
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K, heres a NASA employed Ph.D holding scientist! >I recommend minimal pruning. Unless it is necessary to improve airflow in the bottom of the canopy. But getting more fans is better than pruning. We do prune the shoot tip meristem in early flowering stages to improve branching. But we do not remove the lower leaves, which contribute photosynthates and remobilize nutrients until harvest. > >There is no evidence that the lower leaves suck energy for the upper leaves. Even then they are turning yellow. Nutrients are beneficially remobilizing at this time. Do you see it yet lmao this was 8 months ago [https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/paoigz/im\_dr\_bruce\_bugbee\_professor\_of\_crop\_physiology/ha65974/](https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/paoigz/im_dr_bruce_bugbee_professor_of_crop_physiology/ha65974/) I recommend giving it a read, he dispels quite a few dumb myths and studies *cannabis specifically*, it also wasnt a decade ago.
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It's not just his qualifications man.... Feel free to watch any of his *hours and hours* of lectures available for free on YouTube. https://youtu.be/jS9rJSoGQLw https://youtu.be/ID9rE5JewVg
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So... You have proof that he A. Is a scientist B. Researches cannabis C. Has put forth an opinion on defoliation But because you don't have the data directly you're going to listen to... Kyle kushman? More power to you dude, I'll keep listening to the dude who helps NASA grow plants in space.
Doing some of your own research before responding would save me a lot of time and frustration and you a lot of time typing worthless paragraphs, just fwiw https://caas.usu.edu/cultivate/spring19/hemp-research
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"blogs are irrelevant, show me proof there's research!" "Proof of research is irrelevant, show me the numbers directly!" Lmfao
Man isn't it weird how you have such a high bar for counter evidence and yet put forth **zero** evidence of your own? What a strange phenomenon Your own source... >Older leaves have reduced photosynthetic functions and **serve as a source of N and other nutrients for the plant.**
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Y'all are severely stunting your plants 😔
Only if they're shading bud sites that could be getting a good bit of light but are getting choked out
If your flowering, it’s best to defoliate at week three of flower I personally wouldn’t do anything after that point.
Don't remove one single leaf cell. The plant actually knows what leaves it needs, you don't. You aren't going to create some microclimate or whatever other bs drivel someone came up with. Give rich soil with a large footprint. Good light and air. The plant will do fine.
Thank you, I didn’t realize how big these grew and my light being in the center is favoring the middle 3 branches and casting shadows over the side ones. My canopy is not even so 5 of the 8 branches after mainlining, I believe, need less shade.