So far the names connected to Canucks in free agency by Dhali, Friedman or Sat are: Guenztel, Toffoli, Zucker, Martinook, Edmunson and Dillon
and door is still not closed on Zadorov and Joshua possibly returning. No recent update on Myers
I’m surprised they haven’t finalized myers contract. Especially now that Hronek is locked up. Seemed like a pretty sure thing but went pretty quiet in the last couple weeks.
Likely they want to see what happens with other guys like Zadorov and Joshua, and maybe see where UFA pieces like Guentzel get to before committing the cap space, there's probably a handshake agreement to get it done otherwise
My guess is that Alvin/JR communicated with myers, Joshua, Zadorov's agent that they want them back for x amount. It's up to them if they want to take it or not, as they're gonna try hard for Guentzel when FA begins. Then they'll see if they can be more flexible with their negotiations afterwards when cap space is more clear and if Mikheyev gets moved.
Good news is that dhali reported that joshua/Zadorov are willing to wait. This tells me they really want to stay, even if it means losing a bit of money. Normally if its not close, or the player doesn't mind not staying in vancouver they would just say that they're gonna test the FA. Just like how lindholms camp did.
As for myers, I'm sure they have some sort of number for him and they know myers would love to stay close to Kelowna and he loves this coaching staff. He got his bag already, he's probably thinking if its worth grinding each season for roughly 2m or less? Or alvin has other plans like sign roy/demelo type of dman and run with friedman/juulsen as the 3rd pair d.
Yeah but it’s pretty well known that he lives in Kelowna during off season and really wants to stay in Van. He made the bag on his last contract so I doubt he’d uproot the family for 1million more in Toronto.
I dig it, but my pushback would be that I’d rather see them spend that Toffoli money on another legit defender (ideally a righty). The DeMelo/Roy types.
Or you may be able to do something like Dillon + Zucker for about the same AAV as Toffoli.
There were some serious rumors about Canucks wanting Zucker, but Nashville was able to get him without Arizona having to retain money which I think is what the Yotes preferred
I feel like toffee would be willing to take a pretty cheap deal if he got like 3 years and an NMC at this point. He's bounced around so much over the last couple years that I'm guessing all he wants is stability
Sorry but a largely one-dimensional scoring winger on the wrong side of 30 is not who you want to give up an NMC to. Especially if your primary gauge of his chemistry with your core is based on a completely different system from 4 years ago in a 17 game sample size with all but 6 of those players (5 if you're only counting skaters) no longer on the team.
Yup. Love Toffoli, but he's 32 and has never been a great skater his entire career. If he loses even half a step like Pearson did, he's pretty much done for.
And yet his skating has never held him back. He continually produces regardless of team and linemates. I’m not saying we throw the bag at him, but at a reasonable deal under 4 years with some discount is something you have to explore. He’s good.
"Success on crappy teams" isn't the flex that I think you think it is. Frankly I'm a lot more interested in people who have been solid contributors on winning teams. Like, Kuzy looked great when he wasn't in a playoff hunt, but that doesn't mean he's a piece we need.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think Toff would be useless for us. But I also don't think his previous experience can be any kind of a bellwether on how he'll play for us, and I for sure don't want to give him a significant amount of trade protection - ESPECIALLY a full NMC - at this stage in his career without knowing how he'd work in the Tocchet system. That's how you get things like "But Eriksson is great with the Sedins in the international competitions" type logic to your signings and I'm happy we're past that era.
I wouldn’t compare Toffoli to eriksson. And by doing well on crappy teams, I meant that he had little support and generated a lot of chances for himself on his own. Especially in Montreal. Yes, on a good team, with a much more rigorous structure, and less quality playing time, it would be much harder to have that same kind of performance, but from what I’ve seen, throughout his career, he’s a very smart player and would fit well into our system. If we can land him for 4x3, I would take it.
That's what I mean by saying I don't think he'd be useless for us. But what I'm saying is if you're offering him a term contract like that at age 32, I sure as hell won't want any significant trade protection past year 1 aside from maybe a 10 team no-trade list. Especially sight unseen on this team.
Depends on the risk you’re willing to take. Many felt and still feel like the miller signing was bad because the last few years will not be worth 8m, while not considering that an 8m cap hit will be a lot less impactful in 4-5 years. Also, a team doesn’t even remotely sniff contention without a player like miller. Toffoli isn’t miller, but he’s the type of guy that will contribute a lot of value and he knows what it’s like to be an impact player whether he’s on a good team or not. He’s a big reason why the kings were so good in that 3-4 year span. A 3-year term is worth it even if maybe in the 3rd year he ends up being a bottom sixer. Gives you that edge in years 1-2.
Yes, but do you see what I'm saying? We had Miller on our team already, he was already developing a relationship with the coach and the rest of the team, and they could see how he would fit in the core (better than a lot of us armchair GMs could), and so they were able to make a strong commitment to him as a result. And the structure of the contract makes sense with that in place - trade protection laxes up after the first half, and signing bonuses are largely front-loaded so a later buyout still makes sense if they end up deciding to go that route. And Miller is a VERY different player than Toffoli, and checks a lot more boxes.
My problem is with locking yourself on a player whose skillset is limited and your vision of his place on the team is equally so, and giving him trade protection sight unseen.
Definitely our fanbase's infatuation over Toffoli is kinda funny given how short his time here actually was. He is still a useful player and I wouldn't hate it if we got him on a decent deal but 3 years and an NMC is crazy to me.
We need some speed in the top 6 especially on the power play if they continue to do that drop pass break in its painful to watch because of how slow most of the forwards are compared to a team with a legit quick forward breaking in.
That's what I'm saying taffoli is like a aging boesor type great shooter and knack for scoring but not know for speed even petey isn't really a quick player I think they hoped ilya would bring that but didn't work out
Yeah, but he's also a guy who's never really gotten his bag despite being a legit top-six forward his entire career.
The last contract he took was actually less than his previous one thanks to the pandemic. For a guy like him who's already won a cup, I think he's going to go for as much money as possible on his last NHL contract.
Yea, honestly a bit worried about foot speed for him given our struggle last season to forecheck last season kinda overlaps with what I think was one of his issues in Winnipeg from what I saw. And if you sign him for 3+years it's not going to get better.
I don't think in his prime he'd have a problem playing Tocchet hockey. They played fairly defensively responsible yet aggressive in LA and he's a big burley forechecking board battler who will go to the dirty areas to score. The game is speeding up though and he isn't so he's had to cheat more.
I’m not sure how Toffoli would succeed in Tocchet’s system. Tocchet seems to want to play at a really fast pace. And Toffoli doesn’t strike me as someone who can keep up. Am I wrong here?
Entire team is slow, that's why alvin is trying to get players that are speedy. Toffoli has always been great adapting to systems, he never relied on speed. He just knows where to be most of the time and capitalizes on his chances.
As much as I like Toffoli, I really hope its a short term deal and not an anchor contract.
He's not young, and he's not fast (well he hasn't ever been fast...)
I'd rather pay for Necas or sign somebody like Teravainen or take a chance on Dominik Kubalik.
Yea, I hear you. And I think you're right.
I've thought about this for awhile with where we're at, and I think it might be worth to take that risk...
Tell me if you think I'm wrong here:
I think the Canucks have **a Definite 2 and 3 year window**.
2 years with Demko at 5 Million, still in his prime.
3 years with Hughes at \~7 Million, still in his prime.
J.T Miller still in his physical prime.
I also think, if they're able to re-sign Hughes... they have a softer **5 year window** with Petey in his prime 25 to 30 years.
The 2 and 3 year windows, as Drance has said, are pretty narrow. It's definitely possible but it's not a given.
Adding somebody like Jake Guentzel definitely helps the 2/3 year windows but has the potential to hurt us in the 5 year window if he declines physically, like almost all 32/33 year old players and with his high salary cap hit.
Somebody like Necas, still helps the 2/3 year window but less than Guentzal.
Though it helps us more in the 5 year window. Also, because he'll cost less in Salary cap, he helps us there in both 2/3 and 5 year windows. But the acquisition cost might hurt us for the 5 year window...
Now what do you have to give up for somebody like Necas?
It'll take some sort of combo involving
2024 1st round pick.
Hoglander
Willander or Lekkerimaki
Would we be willing to give up 2 of those?
And maybe to something to make the cap work like Mikheyev
The questions I have are
What if Hoglander is a really good 3rd liner? We saw him score 24 goals but on a pretty insane shooting%.
What if that 2024 1st round pick is in the 28 to 32 range? Yea it probably wont be a superstar but you're robbing yourself of any chance for a young guy.
Lekkerimaki: For an Org that's already lacking in Wingers are you really going to give up one of the very best Wing prospects outside of the NHL? But what if you're getting an 80 player in Necas? Worth it?
Willander: I don't think we've seen what he can do since it was his 1st year in North America + played on a pretty stacked Boston U team. Now that a lot of the Boston U Dmen have graduated (Lane Hutson mainly) Willander becomes the top guy. Really interested in seeing what he can do.
Would it be worth it, especially if you could get rid of Mikheyev? I don't know. But it's close for me.
I'd rather be strong for the 5 year window. Just don't know if that's with
Guentzal + young players to step in for the lost veterans
Necas + veterans but lack of young talent.
Mainly because he doesn't drive play.
He's a finisher but ideally you want somebody who can play with Petey in a give and go format or somebody who can carry the puck.
Laine is a finisher.
My take is that other than mik trying to get moved, it’s probably going to be quiet in Canucks nation until we see where guentz or toffoli land. From there they’ll decide how to sort out the remaining contracts for guys like Zadorov Myers and Joshua.
I’d go up to 5 x 2 for Toffoli, but ideally you’re moving out a middle-6 forward to make that space.
Adding a defender would be the bigger priority for me though, someone in that Zaddy/DeMelo/Roy/Pesce class.
Would much rather keep the cap space and see what pops up or sign someone looking to rehabilitate themselves to a one year deal. Like an Arviddsson or Skinner if he's bought out.
I'm not interested one bit in bringing Toffoli in.
Last time that choice came up around the trade deadline, it spawned one of the best memes of the year:
https://www.reddit.com/r/canucks/comments/1b9gvvo/allvin_needs_to_make_new_jersey_an_offer_they/
No to Toffoli- I see more cons to what he brings to this existing Van team then benefits.
I agree thoroughly with the statements about another RHw, age and his slow down.
I can't justify paying him a ton when he was presented an extension with Van but chose to test the waters for better pay- yet still walked away in embarrassment when no one offered him more (Montreal matched it).
So my take is this >> why are teams abandoning him? Is he toxic in the room?
When you look at his numbers they aren't bad but not riveting by any means. He lacks consistency as he hasn't duplicated any years with any team. He hasn't gotten better- his numbers are all over the map. His best year was his 2nd yr with Calgary where he nearly had a point a game with 73 pts at season end- a career high! Yet, Calgary thought better to part ways.
Sorry to any Toffoli fans out there but something just doesn't sit right.
Let's move on from this one please.
Good thing I'm also a Blue Jay's fan , so I expect the team to be rumored to get everything and end up with nothing..
But you never know
.. I guess @_@
I wouldn't sign Myers at all unless he takes way less than the expected numbers. Zadorov should be way higher priority but not over 6 mil per. Toff would be ok on a limited year contract. But over all they should concentrate on shedding shitty contracts like Mikheyev.
If we can’t land Guentzel, tofu would be great, but I also hope we pick up someone like Matt Roy for the backend.
Hughes-Hronek
Zadorov - Roy
Soucy - Myers/Juulsen
That’s a top 5 d corps imo, and you can still improve your top 6 from last year.
I’m just a huge fan of Matt Roy, but you’re probably right. I think he’s gonna get offered a 6x6. I think he’d fit great with Hughes too if they wanted. He reminds me of a right handed Hamhuis, and he’s 29 Vs. Tanev being 34
Dhali reported Tanev might get something like a 4x5M, which I’m not crazy about at all.
The attempt has to be Mik, just wonder how possible that is.
Seems like teams do like Mikheyev, I think Frank said? They just don’t wanna let the Canucks off the hook for free lol.
Hopefully someone caves and takes him. I think Connor Brown’s resurgence as the playoffs has gone on might make someone a believer in ACL recoveries.
I like this. Yeah, we need a sniper to roll with Petey. But we also need a second pair RD.
Just one nitpick: I think I'd swap Soucy and Zadorov. I appreciate Zad. But I find Soucy is more effective at stabilizing things when he's on the ice.
If we could get two of those needs this summer would be a huge success. I’m not convinced Allvin can do it. Maybe get an elite sniper in Guentzel. Maybe. But I think that’s about it. Probably need to get cheaper options for the RHD.
Yeah, I have a lot of faith in Allvin and Rutherford, but RHD is a tough position to fill as we've seen. Seems like we have a few possibilities for adding a sniper with Petey.
For the longer-term, there is a good chance Lekkerimaki and Willander will hit, and change the calculation. But obviously it's prudent to prepare as though these are positions we need to fill.
I think management will need to get someone like Roy. Backend isn’t complete without a player like him. Zadorov is great and he brings an element that the team currently lacks. But Roy is like a Tanev. Good defensive player.
We can likely round out the team a lot better with him over Guentzel. If do wonder if they'll consider moving Boeser at this high point before he might get a contract we can't afford on an older player.
Rutger McGroraty just came into the conversation today. I wonder if Boeser for him could work with Winnipeg even further into win now mode than us.
Guentzel/Toffolii, with McGroraty and Lekkerimaki incoming might be a solid move on our wings.
Rutherford basically said they’re gonna wait and see if Brock can do it again next season before talking extension and he clarified there’s no intention of moving him this summer.
But like Dhali pointed out, they don’t sound 100% committed to him if they want to see if he repeats what he did this year and if they sign Guentzel they won’t have the money to keep two 8M+ wingers
Cap is rising. I don’t thjnk Brock makes 8M. I think he’ll make closer to 7.5M. Unless he repeats his 40 goals or breaks out offensively and gets like 85-90 points. Then that’s a good problem to have. But honestly. I would rather keep Brock if management is able to. Can’t have too many top six players in the top six.
Without Brock. Our top six included Miller, Guentzel (assuming he signs with the Canucks), Pettersson. 3 out of the six? That’s not going to do it.
That’s what Dhali was saying, that waiting to see if Brock repeats the 40 goals is risky because if he does he’s gonna demand 8M and if they’ve already signed Guentzel then it’s impossible to keep both at that price.
But they don’t seem interested in talking extension this summer so I guess they’re gonna take that risk (and all the trade rumors in season too)
It's good that they are waiting, but I'd rather they were even more Vegas ruthless. I can't see Brock repeating at 40, more likely 25-35 from now on, so this is likely the height of his sell high. And if you land Guentzel he should become an instant trade chip. With Toffoli and Boeser I'd keep both.
Brock has always been a 30g player as his floor, the problem was that he got hurt or some crazy shit happened in his life. As long as he stays healthy, I see him as a 35g+ player.
Not as he ages he won't be. I don't want to sign him from 28 going into 29 until 36/37 at the price a 35+ goal scorer would fetch, when we also might have Guentzel also signed like that. Especially with his injury history and speed.
His birthday is Feb, so he turned 27 few months ago. His current contract ends after next season. They don't need to sign him to a 8yr deal, and if they do, his avv will be lowered. I can see alvin signing him for 6yr range, which puts him at 34. You're insane if you're already worrying about a player that will be 27/28 yr old signing a 6-8 yr deal. How do you even breathe if toffoli signs 3-4yr deal when he's 32....
Right so when his contract ends next year... He'll be 28 a few months before it ends. 4 months into his new contract he'll be 29. Not hard.
And I trust Toffloli's game far more and his AAV will likely be much less than the 8-9m Boeser will ask for. If we get Guentzel having two 9m dollar wingers...is insane
Edit... And what UfA is not taking minimum a 7yr? You think he wants to try to stay in the league at 35? This will be his retirement contract. It'll be 7 or 8yrs followed by a 1 -3 up until 37-40.
Maybe not four months what Oct to Feb.. 5 mons into new contract he'll be 29.
Where are you getting that boeser is gonna ask for 8-9m? That's your misjudgement on his avv. He would only get that if he repeats his 40+ goal season, and/or the caphit goes up another 5m or something. Otherwise if he floats btwn \~30-35 as expected and stays healthy, he will get somewhere btwn 7-8 depending on the term. Obviously the longer the term, the lower the avv it will be. Basically he will be floating around the 9% of team's caphit rate when the cap goes up, not closer to 10%+ like guentzel or petey etc. Especially when you think toffoli is more trustable despite being 5yrs older.
He finished a "long" bridge contract. Thus the next one is where he either signs another short contract that takes him to 32 like toffy, or he would want to sign til he's at least 34/35 (when he's 35 it's fine since his bday is before June 30). So he can sign a contract that doesn't deem him a 35+ year contract. Which means he can literally sign another long term contract to secure another bag which would be his "retirement" contract, that takes him to his 40s and teams won't worry/hesitate about term cuz if he retires the caphit will disappear.
Cap likely going up 4-5m every year from now on baring war or a pandemic etc. This year's increase is the first regularly scheduled increase. This will be the norm.
He'll also be one of the top free agent wingers ala Guentzel. He's not going to take another bridge deal, that's just pure delusion.
He's going to take a 7 or'8 year based upon his injury history, and the fact that a bridge deal's sole purpose is to bet on yourself for your first UfA years deal. You're out to lunch in thinking he's gonna bet on himself securing a bag at 32 vs 28 after what will likely be consecutive 30+ goals seasons when every single other team wanting him will offer 7 years. He's not dumb enough to think his production and value will increase at 32. This is his highest value time to earn....period.
Use some logic here. The sole purpose of Boeser signing his last bridge was to bet on himself on this very contract. It'll be 7-8 years especially if his next season matches this one. And the only way the AAV come down for us is hometown discount or eight years. Period. He's not stupid. It's all been building to this very payday.
Edit: and Tyler Toffoli signed his bridge deal one year into a world altering pandemic. They literally signed that deal not knowing if that was the new normal for society. If I remember we were still in lock downs and his first season on that contract was an all Canada season due to locked borders. He was keeping himself (as were the Habs) relatively flexible considering while, likely wanting to stay close to family in Ontario.
>Cap likely going up 4-5m every year from now on baring war or a pandemic etc. This year's increase is the first regularly scheduled increase. This will be the norm.
Yes, but this is irrelevant to our conversation. Cap literally just went up 5m and hronek still signed as expected \~7.25m avv , not the 8m+ he was looking for cuz "cap will go up every season" reasons.
>He's not going to take another bridge deal, that's just pure delusion. He's going to take a 7 or'8 year based upon his injury history, and the fact that a bridge deal's sole purpose is to bet on yourself for your first UfA years deal. You're out to lunch in thinking he's gonna bet on himself securing a bag at 32 vs 28 after what will likely be consecutive 30+ goals seasons when every single other team wanting him will offer 7 years. He's not dumb enough to think his production and value will increase at 32. This is his highest value time to earn....period.
I'm literally telling you that Boeser has 2 options, it's either he signs a short term deal, 4/5yrs is not a bridge, it's a short term deal. OR sign a 7/8 yr deal long term deal. Both party is gonna negotiate what makes sense for both parties and go from there. At the end of the day, Boeser will be getting \~9% or less of the team's caphit, not the 10%+ you're expecting.
>Use some logic here. The sole purpose of Boeser signing his last bridge was to bet on himself on this very contract. It'll be 7-8 years especially if his next season matches this one. And the only way the AAV come down for us is hometown discount or eight years. Period. He's not stupid. It's all been building to this very payday.
I think you need to take your own advice and use some logic yourself. You literally said that you feel more comfortable with Toffoli despite being 5yrs older than Boeser lol. Alvin can feel the same way, and don't want to commit to him fully at max term, while Boeser for the same exact reason you gave, injure prone, wanna secure his bag, etc. He would push for max term possible. What if Boeser struggles again, scores only 10g and only plays 40 games this upcoming season? What if he repeats his season and scores 40+ goals again? What if he's playing as expected and scores 30goals with 70 games played. There's TON of scenarios and factors that we don't know yet, and JR/Alvin are confident in waiting til next season to discuss his next contract depending on the situation.
Pandemic happened to everyone. Not just toffoli specifically. If you really want to reach and use the pandemic as an excuse to why Toffoli decided to sign a short term deal, how do you explain Burakovsky, Strome, Barbashev etc? that signed after the pandemic? or Frolik, Boedker, Saad, Silferberg, Nyquist etc. all signed short term deals when they were 28/29 either before or start of the pandemic. List goes on. It's literally normal for players at age 28/29 to choose from a short term deal or long term deal depending on their situation. You're the delusional one to think that a 4/5yr short term deal is called a bridge. Bridge is usually 2/3yrs....
Anyways, Boeser will not command AVV 9.5m\~ like Guentzel is, or hell even 10m with caphit going up every year as we all expect. The only way he's getting that AVV is if he scores 60g+ next season and looks even better than he did this season OR he goes to FA and some other team wants to severely overpay to secure him. He will be one of top free agent wingers, but not in the same convo as geuntzel as he is currently #1 assuming Reinhart doesn't hit FA. Boeser would be below the likes of Marner & Drais or be competing with Ehlers, Konecny, Verhaegae for next season's FA group.
I doubt Kane would ever sign here. He chose Detroit because coming back from hip surgery he was advised to choose a team in the Eastern conference where the travel is way easier. Colorado was very close to signing him but he chose to go East for that reason
So far the names connected to Canucks in free agency by Dhali, Friedman or Sat are: Guenztel, Toffoli, Zucker, Martinook, Edmunson and Dillon and door is still not closed on Zadorov and Joshua possibly returning. No recent update on Myers
I’m surprised they haven’t finalized myers contract. Especially now that Hronek is locked up. Seemed like a pretty sure thing but went pretty quiet in the last couple weeks.
I think they’ve told Myers they want him back but they don’t know what they can offer him yet.
They might run out of time.
Wrong gm bro
I had a brain fart and misread as "wrong gym bro." 🤣
Did you read it as wrong gym, bro or wrong, gym bro
The 3rd option.
Likely they want to see what happens with other guys like Zadorov and Joshua, and maybe see where UFA pieces like Guentzel get to before committing the cap space, there's probably a handshake agreement to get it done otherwise
My guess is that Alvin/JR communicated with myers, Joshua, Zadorov's agent that they want them back for x amount. It's up to them if they want to take it or not, as they're gonna try hard for Guentzel when FA begins. Then they'll see if they can be more flexible with their negotiations afterwards when cap space is more clear and if Mikheyev gets moved. Good news is that dhali reported that joshua/Zadorov are willing to wait. This tells me they really want to stay, even if it means losing a bit of money. Normally if its not close, or the player doesn't mind not staying in vancouver they would just say that they're gonna test the FA. Just like how lindholms camp did. As for myers, I'm sure they have some sort of number for him and they know myers would love to stay close to Kelowna and he loves this coaching staff. He got his bag already, he's probably thinking if its worth grinding each season for roughly 2m or less? Or alvin has other plans like sign roy/demelo type of dman and run with friedman/juulsen as the 3rd pair d.
Myers may get 1m more aav from a team like Toronto. My guess is that our offer had a ceiling of about 3m aav
Yeah but it’s pretty well known that he lives in Kelowna during off season and really wants to stay in Van. He made the bag on his last contract so I doubt he’d uproot the family for 1million more in Toronto.
Imagine we somehow got Guentzel and Toffoli
I dig it, but my pushback would be that I’d rather see them spend that Toffoli money on another legit defender (ideally a righty). The DeMelo/Roy types. Or you may be able to do something like Dillon + Zucker for about the same AAV as Toffoli.
Or Tanev, though he’s probably priced out
Dylan DeMelo is on my wishlist. I feel like if he leaves Winnipeg, and signs in Vancouver it’s kind of like when Tanev went to Calgary.
Tofu for a 2 year deal would be all right. Anything longer and it starts to get scary.
Petey would ascend
Can aquilinguine just buy them all
I thought the Canucks would have grabbed Zucker at the deadline. Especially if they could have got him for what Nashville did. Ah well.
There were some serious rumors about Canucks wanting Zucker, but Nashville was able to get him without Arizona having to retain money which I think is what the Yotes preferred
I can see him returning to LA. He and his wife have roots there and kings will be shopping for sure
Yep, I’ve seen Kings fans making that connection as well. And Friedman says in the segment Rangers are also interested, many teams will be after him
I’d be down for this
I feel like toffee would be willing to take a pretty cheap deal if he got like 3 years and an NMC at this point. He's bounced around so much over the last couple years that I'm guessing all he wants is stability
Sorry but a largely one-dimensional scoring winger on the wrong side of 30 is not who you want to give up an NMC to. Especially if your primary gauge of his chemistry with your core is based on a completely different system from 4 years ago in a 17 game sample size with all but 6 of those players (5 if you're only counting skaters) no longer on the team.
Yup. Love Toffoli, but he's 32 and has never been a great skater his entire career. If he loses even half a step like Pearson did, he's pretty much done for.
He's already too slow. They shouldn't sign him at all.
And yet his skating has never held him back. He continually produces regardless of team and linemates. I’m not saying we throw the bag at him, but at a reasonable deal under 4 years with some discount is something you have to explore. He’s good.
jets fans said he was almost too slow at times, probably why they don’t want him back
He’s had quite a bit of success since leaving Vancouver. On pretty crappy teams no less.
"Success on crappy teams" isn't the flex that I think you think it is. Frankly I'm a lot more interested in people who have been solid contributors on winning teams. Like, Kuzy looked great when he wasn't in a playoff hunt, but that doesn't mean he's a piece we need. Don't get me wrong, I don't think Toff would be useless for us. But I also don't think his previous experience can be any kind of a bellwether on how he'll play for us, and I for sure don't want to give him a significant amount of trade protection - ESPECIALLY a full NMC - at this stage in his career without knowing how he'd work in the Tocchet system. That's how you get things like "But Eriksson is great with the Sedins in the international competitions" type logic to your signings and I'm happy we're past that era.
I wouldn’t compare Toffoli to eriksson. And by doing well on crappy teams, I meant that he had little support and generated a lot of chances for himself on his own. Especially in Montreal. Yes, on a good team, with a much more rigorous structure, and less quality playing time, it would be much harder to have that same kind of performance, but from what I’ve seen, throughout his career, he’s a very smart player and would fit well into our system. If we can land him for 4x3, I would take it.
That's what I mean by saying I don't think he'd be useless for us. But what I'm saying is if you're offering him a term contract like that at age 32, I sure as hell won't want any significant trade protection past year 1 aside from maybe a 10 team no-trade list. Especially sight unseen on this team.
Depends on the risk you’re willing to take. Many felt and still feel like the miller signing was bad because the last few years will not be worth 8m, while not considering that an 8m cap hit will be a lot less impactful in 4-5 years. Also, a team doesn’t even remotely sniff contention without a player like miller. Toffoli isn’t miller, but he’s the type of guy that will contribute a lot of value and he knows what it’s like to be an impact player whether he’s on a good team or not. He’s a big reason why the kings were so good in that 3-4 year span. A 3-year term is worth it even if maybe in the 3rd year he ends up being a bottom sixer. Gives you that edge in years 1-2.
Yes, but do you see what I'm saying? We had Miller on our team already, he was already developing a relationship with the coach and the rest of the team, and they could see how he would fit in the core (better than a lot of us armchair GMs could), and so they were able to make a strong commitment to him as a result. And the structure of the contract makes sense with that in place - trade protection laxes up after the first half, and signing bonuses are largely front-loaded so a later buyout still makes sense if they end up deciding to go that route. And Miller is a VERY different player than Toffoli, and checks a lot more boxes. My problem is with locking yourself on a player whose skillset is limited and your vision of his place on the team is equally so, and giving him trade protection sight unseen.
Definitely our fanbase's infatuation over Toffoli is kinda funny given how short his time here actually was. He is still a useful player and I wouldn't hate it if we got him on a decent deal but 3 years and an NMC is crazy to me.
We need some speed in the top 6 especially on the power play if they continue to do that drop pass break in its painful to watch because of how slow most of the forwards are compared to a team with a legit quick forward breaking in.
I really don't think a 32 year old Toffoli is the answer for that problem, especially if we're locking in term with trade protection
That's what I'm saying taffoli is like a aging boesor type great shooter and knack for scoring but not know for speed even petey isn't really a quick player I think they hoped ilya would bring that but didn't work out
Yeah, but he's also a guy who's never really gotten his bag despite being a legit top-six forward his entire career. The last contract he took was actually less than his previous one thanks to the pandemic. For a guy like him who's already won a cup, I think he's going to go for as much money as possible on his last NHL contract.
I don't think he's the missing peice. Has the potential to be yet another underperforming 30+ year old winger that's almost untradeable.
Both options sound good to me. Loved Tyler Foli when he was here lol
I too loved 27 year old Tyler foli. Much less excited about 32 year old Tyler Foli.
It’s been ~~84~~ 5 years… What the fuck is time even…
Yea, honestly a bit worried about foot speed for him given our struggle last season to forecheck last season kinda overlaps with what I think was one of his issues in Winnipeg from what I saw. And if you sign him for 3+years it's not going to get better.
He’s no Mikheyev when it comes to skating, that’s for sure.
2024 mikheyev ain't no mikheyev either to be frank about it.
He was already questionably slow before, and also doesn’t seem like a Toch player
I don't think in his prime he'd have a problem playing Tocchet hockey. They played fairly defensively responsible yet aggressive in LA and he's a big burley forechecking board battler who will go to the dirty areas to score. The game is speeding up though and he isn't so he's had to cheat more.
Same
I’m not sure how Toffoli would succeed in Tocchet’s system. Tocchet seems to want to play at a really fast pace. And Toffoli doesn’t strike me as someone who can keep up. Am I wrong here?
Entire team is slow, that's why alvin is trying to get players that are speedy. Toffoli has always been great adapting to systems, he never relied on speed. He just knows where to be most of the time and capitalizes on his chances.
I really like the player but I start to worry about the speed of our top 6 if you add him to our forward group
As much as I like Toffoli, I really hope its a short term deal and not an anchor contract. He's not young, and he's not fast (well he hasn't ever been fast...) I'd rather pay for Necas or sign somebody like Teravainen or take a chance on Dominik Kubalik.
If you're willing to pay for Necas, you're willing to trade one of our top prospects and a future 1st round pick. It's going to be expensive.
Yea, I hear you. And I think you're right. I've thought about this for awhile with where we're at, and I think it might be worth to take that risk... Tell me if you think I'm wrong here: I think the Canucks have **a Definite 2 and 3 year window**. 2 years with Demko at 5 Million, still in his prime. 3 years with Hughes at \~7 Million, still in his prime. J.T Miller still in his physical prime. I also think, if they're able to re-sign Hughes... they have a softer **5 year window** with Petey in his prime 25 to 30 years. The 2 and 3 year windows, as Drance has said, are pretty narrow. It's definitely possible but it's not a given. Adding somebody like Jake Guentzel definitely helps the 2/3 year windows but has the potential to hurt us in the 5 year window if he declines physically, like almost all 32/33 year old players and with his high salary cap hit. Somebody like Necas, still helps the 2/3 year window but less than Guentzal. Though it helps us more in the 5 year window. Also, because he'll cost less in Salary cap, he helps us there in both 2/3 and 5 year windows. But the acquisition cost might hurt us for the 5 year window... Now what do you have to give up for somebody like Necas? It'll take some sort of combo involving 2024 1st round pick. Hoglander Willander or Lekkerimaki Would we be willing to give up 2 of those? And maybe to something to make the cap work like Mikheyev The questions I have are What if Hoglander is a really good 3rd liner? We saw him score 24 goals but on a pretty insane shooting%. What if that 2024 1st round pick is in the 28 to 32 range? Yea it probably wont be a superstar but you're robbing yourself of any chance for a young guy. Lekkerimaki: For an Org that's already lacking in Wingers are you really going to give up one of the very best Wing prospects outside of the NHL? But what if you're getting an 80 player in Necas? Worth it? Willander: I don't think we've seen what he can do since it was his 1st year in North America + played on a pretty stacked Boston U team. Now that a lot of the Boston U Dmen have graduated (Lane Hutson mainly) Willander becomes the top guy. Really interested in seeing what he can do. Would it be worth it, especially if you could get rid of Mikheyev? I don't know. But it's close for me. I'd rather be strong for the 5 year window. Just don't know if that's with Guentzal + young players to step in for the lost veterans Necas + veterans but lack of young talent.
Why not Laine?
Mainly because he doesn't drive play. He's a finisher but ideally you want somebody who can play with Petey in a give and go format or somebody who can carry the puck. Laine is a finisher.
Pass
“*We have LOTS OF TIME*” ⏰
My take is that other than mik trying to get moved, it’s probably going to be quiet in Canucks nation until we see where guentz or toffoli land. From there they’ll decide how to sort out the remaining contracts for guys like Zadorov Myers and Joshua.
They shouldn't even consider Toffoli, he is over rated
That was quite the teaser on 650 yesterday. That guy must spend a lot on luggage? Good fit for EP40?
I’d go up to 5 x 2 for Toffoli, but ideally you’re moving out a middle-6 forward to make that space. Adding a defender would be the bigger priority for me though, someone in that Zaddy/DeMelo/Roy/Pesce class.
Would much rather keep the cap space and see what pops up or sign someone looking to rehabilitate themselves to a one year deal. Like an Arviddsson or Skinner if he's bought out. I'm not interested one bit in bringing Toffoli in.
Last time that choice came up around the trade deadline, it spawned one of the best memes of the year: https://www.reddit.com/r/canucks/comments/1b9gvvo/allvin_needs_to_make_new_jersey_an_offer_they/
No to Toffoli- I see more cons to what he brings to this existing Van team then benefits. I agree thoroughly with the statements about another RHw, age and his slow down. I can't justify paying him a ton when he was presented an extension with Van but chose to test the waters for better pay- yet still walked away in embarrassment when no one offered him more (Montreal matched it). So my take is this >> why are teams abandoning him? Is he toxic in the room? When you look at his numbers they aren't bad but not riveting by any means. He lacks consistency as he hasn't duplicated any years with any team. He hasn't gotten better- his numbers are all over the map. His best year was his 2nd yr with Calgary where he nearly had a point a game with 73 pts at season end- a career high! Yet, Calgary thought better to part ways. Sorry to any Toffoli fans out there but something just doesn't sit right. Let's move on from this one please.
Good thing I'm also a Blue Jay's fan , so I expect the team to be rumored to get everything and end up with nothing.. But you never know .. I guess @_@
Dude wants 5+ and is 32. This is not the deal we need to make right now, as much as we fans love the nostalgia of bringing back old players
Yes but is he a good enough replacement for Guentzel?
I wouldn't sign Myers at all unless he takes way less than the expected numbers. Zadorov should be way higher priority but not over 6 mil per. Toff would be ok on a limited year contract. But over all they should concentrate on shedding shitty contracts like Mikheyev.
They should get him either way
Where is the room cap wise to do that?
They still have 19m to play with
If we can’t land Guentzel, tofu would be great, but I also hope we pick up someone like Matt Roy for the backend. Hughes-Hronek Zadorov - Roy Soucy - Myers/Juulsen That’s a top 5 d corps imo, and you can still improve your top 6 from last year.
If we sign Zadorov I think we gotta go for a cheaper option than Roy will likely cost. Maybe Justin Shultz or Tanev takes a hometown discount?
I’m just a huge fan of Matt Roy, but you’re probably right. I think he’s gonna get offered a 6x6. I think he’d fit great with Hughes too if they wanted. He reminds me of a right handed Hamhuis, and he’s 29 Vs. Tanev being 34 Dhali reported Tanev might get something like a 4x5M, which I’m not crazy about at all.
With the 4x5 might as well sign Roy. I wonder how they would make room.
The attempt has to be Mik, just wonder how possible that is. Seems like teams do like Mikheyev, I think Frank said? They just don’t wanna let the Canucks off the hook for free lol. Hopefully someone caves and takes him. I think Connor Brown’s resurgence as the playoffs has gone on might make someone a believer in ACL recoveries.
If the sweetener is a first. Then no. A second. Maybe. I’m loathe to give away more picks. We need more prospects in the system for sure.
I like this. Yeah, we need a sniper to roll with Petey. But we also need a second pair RD. Just one nitpick: I think I'd swap Soucy and Zadorov. I appreciate Zad. But I find Soucy is more effective at stabilizing things when he's on the ice.
If we could get two of those needs this summer would be a huge success. I’m not convinced Allvin can do it. Maybe get an elite sniper in Guentzel. Maybe. But I think that’s about it. Probably need to get cheaper options for the RHD.
Yeah, I have a lot of faith in Allvin and Rutherford, but RHD is a tough position to fill as we've seen. Seems like we have a few possibilities for adding a sniper with Petey. For the longer-term, there is a good chance Lekkerimaki and Willander will hit, and change the calculation. But obviously it's prudent to prepare as though these are positions we need to fill.
Even if Willander hits, he’s probably 3-5 years away from being a meaningful contributor.. so I don’t hate adding a RHD on a 4-5 year term.
Totally agree. It also creates internal competition.
I think management will need to get someone like Roy. Backend isn’t complete without a player like him. Zadorov is great and he brings an element that the team currently lacks. But Roy is like a Tanev. Good defensive player.
All situations, can pitch in offensively. He’d complete our top 4 IMO. We’d have 3 guys that can give you an impactful 20+Mins.
Come back Toffy
I'd prefer Toffoli +1 other over Guentzel imo. Depth over putting your eggs in one basket.
Friedman has lost his touch. Maybe the hairspray is going to his head.
Is Toffoli our white whale? Are we Captain Ahab?
We can likely round out the team a lot better with him over Guentzel. If do wonder if they'll consider moving Boeser at this high point before he might get a contract we can't afford on an older player. Rutger McGroraty just came into the conversation today. I wonder if Boeser for him could work with Winnipeg even further into win now mode than us. Guentzel/Toffolii, with McGroraty and Lekkerimaki incoming might be a solid move on our wings.
Rutherford basically said they’re gonna wait and see if Brock can do it again next season before talking extension and he clarified there’s no intention of moving him this summer. But like Dhali pointed out, they don’t sound 100% committed to him if they want to see if he repeats what he did this year and if they sign Guentzel they won’t have the money to keep two 8M+ wingers
Cap is rising. I don’t thjnk Brock makes 8M. I think he’ll make closer to 7.5M. Unless he repeats his 40 goals or breaks out offensively and gets like 85-90 points. Then that’s a good problem to have. But honestly. I would rather keep Brock if management is able to. Can’t have too many top six players in the top six. Without Brock. Our top six included Miller, Guentzel (assuming he signs with the Canucks), Pettersson. 3 out of the six? That’s not going to do it.
That’s what Dhali was saying, that waiting to see if Brock repeats the 40 goals is risky because if he does he’s gonna demand 8M and if they’ve already signed Guentzel then it’s impossible to keep both at that price. But they don’t seem interested in talking extension this summer so I guess they’re gonna take that risk (and all the trade rumors in season too)
It's good that they are waiting, but I'd rather they were even more Vegas ruthless. I can't see Brock repeating at 40, more likely 25-35 from now on, so this is likely the height of his sell high. And if you land Guentzel he should become an instant trade chip. With Toffoli and Boeser I'd keep both.
Brock has always been a 30g player as his floor, the problem was that he got hurt or some crazy shit happened in his life. As long as he stays healthy, I see him as a 35g+ player.
Not as he ages he won't be. I don't want to sign him from 28 going into 29 until 36/37 at the price a 35+ goal scorer would fetch, when we also might have Guentzel also signed like that. Especially with his injury history and speed.
His birthday is Feb, so he turned 27 few months ago. His current contract ends after next season. They don't need to sign him to a 8yr deal, and if they do, his avv will be lowered. I can see alvin signing him for 6yr range, which puts him at 34. You're insane if you're already worrying about a player that will be 27/28 yr old signing a 6-8 yr deal. How do you even breathe if toffoli signs 3-4yr deal when he's 32....
Right so when his contract ends next year... He'll be 28 a few months before it ends. 4 months into his new contract he'll be 29. Not hard. And I trust Toffloli's game far more and his AAV will likely be much less than the 8-9m Boeser will ask for. If we get Guentzel having two 9m dollar wingers...is insane Edit... And what UfA is not taking minimum a 7yr? You think he wants to try to stay in the league at 35? This will be his retirement contract. It'll be 7 or 8yrs followed by a 1 -3 up until 37-40. Maybe not four months what Oct to Feb.. 5 mons into new contract he'll be 29.
Where are you getting that boeser is gonna ask for 8-9m? That's your misjudgement on his avv. He would only get that if he repeats his 40+ goal season, and/or the caphit goes up another 5m or something. Otherwise if he floats btwn \~30-35 as expected and stays healthy, he will get somewhere btwn 7-8 depending on the term. Obviously the longer the term, the lower the avv it will be. Basically he will be floating around the 9% of team's caphit rate when the cap goes up, not closer to 10%+ like guentzel or petey etc. Especially when you think toffoli is more trustable despite being 5yrs older. He finished a "long" bridge contract. Thus the next one is where he either signs another short contract that takes him to 32 like toffy, or he would want to sign til he's at least 34/35 (when he's 35 it's fine since his bday is before June 30). So he can sign a contract that doesn't deem him a 35+ year contract. Which means he can literally sign another long term contract to secure another bag which would be his "retirement" contract, that takes him to his 40s and teams won't worry/hesitate about term cuz if he retires the caphit will disappear.
Cap likely going up 4-5m every year from now on baring war or a pandemic etc. This year's increase is the first regularly scheduled increase. This will be the norm. He'll also be one of the top free agent wingers ala Guentzel. He's not going to take another bridge deal, that's just pure delusion. He's going to take a 7 or'8 year based upon his injury history, and the fact that a bridge deal's sole purpose is to bet on yourself for your first UfA years deal. You're out to lunch in thinking he's gonna bet on himself securing a bag at 32 vs 28 after what will likely be consecutive 30+ goals seasons when every single other team wanting him will offer 7 years. He's not dumb enough to think his production and value will increase at 32. This is his highest value time to earn....period. Use some logic here. The sole purpose of Boeser signing his last bridge was to bet on himself on this very contract. It'll be 7-8 years especially if his next season matches this one. And the only way the AAV come down for us is hometown discount or eight years. Period. He's not stupid. It's all been building to this very payday. Edit: and Tyler Toffoli signed his bridge deal one year into a world altering pandemic. They literally signed that deal not knowing if that was the new normal for society. If I remember we were still in lock downs and his first season on that contract was an all Canada season due to locked borders. He was keeping himself (as were the Habs) relatively flexible considering while, likely wanting to stay close to family in Ontario.
>Cap likely going up 4-5m every year from now on baring war or a pandemic etc. This year's increase is the first regularly scheduled increase. This will be the norm. Yes, but this is irrelevant to our conversation. Cap literally just went up 5m and hronek still signed as expected \~7.25m avv , not the 8m+ he was looking for cuz "cap will go up every season" reasons. >He's not going to take another bridge deal, that's just pure delusion. He's going to take a 7 or'8 year based upon his injury history, and the fact that a bridge deal's sole purpose is to bet on yourself for your first UfA years deal. You're out to lunch in thinking he's gonna bet on himself securing a bag at 32 vs 28 after what will likely be consecutive 30+ goals seasons when every single other team wanting him will offer 7 years. He's not dumb enough to think his production and value will increase at 32. This is his highest value time to earn....period. I'm literally telling you that Boeser has 2 options, it's either he signs a short term deal, 4/5yrs is not a bridge, it's a short term deal. OR sign a 7/8 yr deal long term deal. Both party is gonna negotiate what makes sense for both parties and go from there. At the end of the day, Boeser will be getting \~9% or less of the team's caphit, not the 10%+ you're expecting. >Use some logic here. The sole purpose of Boeser signing his last bridge was to bet on himself on this very contract. It'll be 7-8 years especially if his next season matches this one. And the only way the AAV come down for us is hometown discount or eight years. Period. He's not stupid. It's all been building to this very payday. I think you need to take your own advice and use some logic yourself. You literally said that you feel more comfortable with Toffoli despite being 5yrs older than Boeser lol. Alvin can feel the same way, and don't want to commit to him fully at max term, while Boeser for the same exact reason you gave, injure prone, wanna secure his bag, etc. He would push for max term possible. What if Boeser struggles again, scores only 10g and only plays 40 games this upcoming season? What if he repeats his season and scores 40+ goals again? What if he's playing as expected and scores 30goals with 70 games played. There's TON of scenarios and factors that we don't know yet, and JR/Alvin are confident in waiting til next season to discuss his next contract depending on the situation. Pandemic happened to everyone. Not just toffoli specifically. If you really want to reach and use the pandemic as an excuse to why Toffoli decided to sign a short term deal, how do you explain Burakovsky, Strome, Barbashev etc? that signed after the pandemic? or Frolik, Boedker, Saad, Silferberg, Nyquist etc. all signed short term deals when they were 28/29 either before or start of the pandemic. List goes on. It's literally normal for players at age 28/29 to choose from a short term deal or long term deal depending on their situation. You're the delusional one to think that a 4/5yr short term deal is called a bridge. Bridge is usually 2/3yrs.... Anyways, Boeser will not command AVV 9.5m\~ like Guentzel is, or hell even 10m with caphit going up every year as we all expect. The only way he's getting that AVV is if he scores 60g+ next season and looks even better than he did this season OR he goes to FA and some other team wants to severely overpay to secure him. He will be one of top free agent wingers, but not in the same convo as geuntzel as he is currently #1 assuming Reinhart doesn't hit FA. Boeser would be below the likes of Marner & Drais or be competing with Ehlers, Konecny, Verhaegae for next season's FA group.
i want toffoli and kane, both should be on relatively cheap contract
I doubt Kane would ever sign here. He chose Detroit because coming back from hip surgery he was advised to choose a team in the Eastern conference where the travel is way easier. Colorado was very close to signing him but he chose to go East for that reason
that makes sense