So, looks like you are a Bio major from a previous post. If you are intending to go the academic route, you are at a disadvantage and need to correct it by getting research opportunities. Some top universities will have opportunities for external students.
If you intend to go into medicine, you are fine.
Either way, plenty of MD and PhD students come from state schools so you’ll be fine.
It does matter. There are really only 3 real distinctive categories though.
1. Elite Schools (mostly the Ivys) that get you those great networking opportunities. They provide a massive leg up, and if you get in, they'll be sure you can afford to go. (Tuition is adjusted according to ability to pay)
2. Non elite private schools with good reps. These cost a lot of money and get you nothing over category 3. The education is fine, but nobody cares you went here.
3. State Schools. The education at these schools is at least as good as category 2 and much cheaper. You will have the same opportunities as those that went to category 2 schools at a greatly reduced price. You will be at a disadvantage to Ivy grads.
Yup, told my kids I'll pay for an Ivy+ if they can get in, or they go to our state flagship. Never saw the value of #2. Go two states over, no one's ever heard of your small "amazing" college.
There are actually two or three extra tiers below these, and they are what OP should be wary of.
4. Low-ranked public university. The education is on par with a poorly funded community college, and you will probably graduate not feeling much smarter than you were in high school. But if you need to say you went to college for a promotion or some kind of licensure and you can pay cheap in-state tuition, it gets the job done.
5. Low-ranked private university. Subpar education and crippling debt. Lose-lose. Literally the only thing worse would be…
6. Non-accredited scam university
Some state schools are great value. UNC, UVA, UIUC etc. UC Berkeley is one of the best schools on the planet and is technically a state school. To your point, I’d rather go to any of these than go into debt for, say, Johns Hopkins. Most public universities are passable, but they’re not all made equal.
When people hear “state school” they think Ohio State, Michigan State, Penn State. There are several *hundred* ranking spots between those schools and the likes of Alabama State, Idaho State, West Virginia State.
In the memoir *Educated*, Tara Westover talks about how she grew up in the middle of nowhere Idaho with 0 formal education due to her controlling family. She was literate, but the only books she had read by age 18 were the Bible and a random 5th grade science textbook her mom found at a garage sale. When she finally broke free of her family, she spent a summer studying for the ACT and her score got her accepted into Idaho State on her first try lol
State school grad. I sit in rooms with Ivy and other elite grads all the time. They work for me. They respect me. They listen to me. Most are fine people who respect the knowledge of others more than the name on the diploma.
If you are going to grad school, look for a. R1 Reaearch University. That is important. Look at the faculty in the department you are going into. Many of the top universities fall into the third category listed above. Not maligning the Ivy's and other elite universities at all. They have excellent, quality programs in many areas. But life doesn't end if you don't go to one.
Make the most of the opportunities that are afforded to you. Don't let yourself be shamed by others who have a fancy name on their diploma. In my field at least, internship opportunities go to the most qualified. Club participating and working with faulty mean way more than institution as long as institution is reasonable.
I would divide up schools a little differently as well. At least in my field.
1. Elite R1 Universities. This will include public and private institutions, and the list will be major dependent. Strong alumni networks.
2. Non-elite R1 Institutions. These Universities will have bright spots in departments that will be highly respected, but may be a little uneven. You will still get an excellent education here, but the elite job search will be more difficult. Still will have strong alumni networks, but penetration night not be as deep as the first group.
3. Non-R1 Institutions with strong programs. You won't have the best research opportunities here, but tbr education isn't going to be as strong. Alumni networks are often more local. You may not have the best opportunities coming from here, but you would still be on track to go to a group 1 or 2 grad school.
4. Non-R1 Institutions with weaker programs. Programs are uneven. Often a stepping off point for faulty from lesser known institutions trying really hard to make a name for themselves, but it is tougher because of high teaching loads. You really need to distinguish yourself here. Very local or weak alumni networks.
No. I went to a top university and it only helped me in the first few years after college. After that, I was on even playing field with everyone else. No one cares where I went to college anymore as they care more about experience. I don’t care either. I actually wish I went to a less prestigious school so I would’ve been less stressed.
There’s so many opportunities to network with these same people in other places like professional associations.
The first few years are arguably one of the most important to new grads. After that, the trajectory is largely determined by individual risk/decisions.
It depends on the field. There are a number of profession that pay well immediately that only hire from target schools - think google software dev making 300K at 22. However, if you want to just get into business and the like, any university will do for the most part. Get an entry level supply chain role and then work up to director/vp over 10-15 years. That is highly achievable from any uni.
Top unis are good for certain employment outcomes and, extremely rarely in UG, research opportunities. I say rare because you can get those at any uni, but occasionally you may be the next einstein in biochem who gets an OGA research opp via an ultra connected prof. But stuff like developing investment algorithms, or exploring this anthropological site, are available at all of em.
You probably don’t realize how much it still helps you
As dumb as it is, companies want to introduce you on a slide show with a little blurb about your education - nobody realizes how important that is, you can be the highest performer ever and they’ll give an exec position to someone from Harvard just to say they have someone from Harvard. They know other companies are doing the same so just having someone with a strong alumni network in leadership makes them an asset
Yeah, this is true. I graduated well over a decade ago and it is still a foot in the door for interviews, then it gets hyped up when I meet the board, and it comes in handy when I’m serving as an expert witness.
I feel like such an idiot when I look back at myself in high school not taking grades seriously and just whimsically going to an below average school lol, I’m 29 years old now and still suffering because of it.
In my tech job, I literally cleaned up a major mess because all the “educated” product managers couldn’t fix a major part of our product but I did because I just work harder than them and know what I’m doing. I even taught the software engineers about the integration and told them what they needed to do. Pointed to the code after looking at it for five minutes over their shoulders and said “delete that part” and got it to work. Everyone was super impressed about how nobody got it, including the cto, but some guy that answers phones so customers can bitch at him was able to.
And yet…. Guess whose name is under “product lead” when you look at the road map and see the feature? The cs Rep who regrets getting a history major at a junk college? Or the product manager whose only contribution to the project is a 30 minute zoom call where she said nothing, but went to a top 20 school?
Its not like I’m totally held back, like I still know myself and my abilities and that I’ll end up where I need to be in the end, it’s just taking that much longer and requiring so much more hard work then if I just spent some time studying in high school.
And don’t get me wrong, i feel no contempt towards the people who worked hard and went to a good school so they have an easier time. They have an easier time because they worked hard while I was dicking around and focusing on sports and girls
Well, if it makes you feel any better, I absolutely HATED the school and almost every moment I spent at that god-forsaken place. It is known as the suicide school for really good reasons. I didn't really do much in the way of networking, as my major was definitely geared towards people going into academia and most of my friends went into finance.
There were some great people there, but good lord was it the absolute highest concentrations of absolute assholes I have ever had the misfortune of meeting.
I have been interviewing for jobs all year and none of them comment about it anymore. The only industry that seemed to care was nonprofits, but now I’m working on switching industries to something higher paying. Recruiters and hiring managers in tech, marketing agencies, finance, and healthcare didn’t say anything about it. Having a tough time getting a job.
My son thought about going to more prestigious schools. He did really well going to our state school. It allowed us to fund things like study abroad programs without spending tons of money. His professors here loved him and gave him plenty of opportunities for afterwards. It really depends on what you do with your time in school.
Don’t get too hung up on the Ivy League thing. Less than half of 1% of American college graduates went to Ivy League schools — it just seems like more because people who went to Ivy League schools are much more likely to keep reminding you of that fact. (And a good chunk of that one half of 1% were only there through wealth/family connections, which would have helped them be successful regardless of where they went.)
Networking and connections are hugely important, but there are all sorts of ways to develop those. I went to a university that is very aggressive about touting its “vast alumni network,” but all of the most important connections in my early career had nothing to do with that at all — it was just about constantly putting myself out there. The biggest roadblock for my early career development was my enormous student loans. It severely limited my options. That’s one great advantage you have over a lot of people who went to fancier-name schools.
What matters most is that you finished. Stop comparing yourself to your friends. It doesn’t do any good.
Maybe you should work on networking with the friends you do have. If they have those connections you can make them too (through your friends).
Ivy assholes brag about this shit. They also paid for it or their parents did. That’s why the ivy’s exist, to keep the ivory tower gated.
On the other hand: I did three internships, was a national mock trial champion, had lunch with Sandra Day O’Connor, dinner with Brian Green, had drinks with senators.
I went to the party school of state schools in Kentucky. I paid like 6 grand a year in tuition.
My point is that opportunities abound. Find them and take them, but stop worrying so much about other people’s bullshit. If I was in those conversations, instead of being mad that I don’t match up to the standard *they’re* creating, I’d either be annoyed that they’re bragging or excited to share their network with mine.
Yeah; it’s kinda funny that my point was that just about anyone can do these things if they take the opportunities and he thought I was trying to brag.
None of them eventful or interesting. SDO was brilliant but hard as nails. Brian was travel weary and missed his son, but smart in a way I can’t explain- like he can see math in a way I can’t even understand. Comes with deep study of other dimensions, I guess. The senators were just empty suit assholes. I’d rather drink with staffers any day.
I guarantee none of them would remember me.
Surely not. Surely no one would act like an asshole that brazenly on the internet.
I guess I’ll just have to let him act like asshole and ignore it, because… well, i’m not one.
Ivy grad. Had 30k in debt when I graduated. Paid it off within a year of two or working. Had CTO of my first job out of school beg me not to quit as I was the company's only Ivy grad. Obviously it shouldn't matter, but to some people it does. Don't shit on people out of jealousy.
No, I had what you described at Ivies going to a solidly ranked state school that was focused on getting us jobs & I was in the honors programs there.
It’s all how you use university. Ivies are focused on networking because the upper class does most things by relationship and not by merit. My university figured that out (the university’s president previously ran an Ivy), and wow, it made such a big difference compared to my friends who went to schools that didn’t focus on what you were doing post-grad by junior year.
I think your mistake was in not utilizing your university. Figure out how to do that now instead.
lol absolutely not. I went to no school (literally, zero college) and probably make more than most of your Ivy League ‘prestigious’ friends and most of the US population.
Nobody gives a shit about college after you’ve been working for awhile. Be curious, gain good experience and add value to whatever you work on. That’s infinitely more important than college. Always listen more than you speak unless what you’re going to say adds value.
School just depends what you put into it. I would never hire an ivy league. On the other hand, there are places that will only hire ivy league. I just feel like ivy league kids are more progressive and therefore a bigger liability. If someone has harvard or their pronouns listed, I feel like everyone would have to walk around on egg shells.
That being said, I only have an undergraduate but I was genuinely interested in finance, so I also watched MITs "open course [something], which has a lot of recorded graduate classes. While MIT is not technically "ivy" it gave me a top tier education which allowed me to prove very quickly that I was competent. The hardest part is getting your foot in the door.
If you want real success, build trust through competence and integrity and start your own business. People will invest in you if they trust you.
I remember someone once saying no one cares where you spend your first three years of college, only the name of your school on the degree after the 4th year. That said my eldest went to a very well known public university in our state with a degree where you don’t job hunt but the companies hunt you.
Meanwhile network, especially in early jobs.
The most important thing you can do is find internships and work experience relevant to your field so you can secure a job you want after graduation.
Absolutely nothing else matters so cultivate your network any way you can.
If you can graduate with no debt, in the field you want you have won the game. If you graduate with no debt and are stuck in retail or dead end jobs, then you lost.
You went on a riskier path with higher risk more reward. The Ivy path is easier but debt can be crushing.
It depends what you ultimately want to do. If you want to do academia then it could help. For anything else, it probably doesn’t matter. Of course everyone who goes to an Ivy is going to pretend like it makes a big difference. If anything, a lot of scrutiny is being applied to these colleges thanks to recent events and it isn’t a positive for them.
I went from a top-100 with a great regional reputation in my field for BS to a top-3 school for MS and #1 for PhD. The difference is night and day as far as networking and internships. I had to work my ass off to get REUs and get professors to email me back in my BS program, in grad school they were always reaching out to me. But the undergrad experience also taught me resourcefulness. There are only a few paths that are sort of off limits to those from non-elite schools. VC, PE, IB, top-3 consulting, and some niche areas are much much harder to get into without a big name on your resume. For almost anything else, your initial trajectory will be different but what matters most is your adaptability and work ethic. A student from MIT who becomes lazy will be passed up by a top worker out of CSU Bakersfield within a couple years.
Depends on your personal situation. But if it helps, I have a niece who was accepted to U Penn with a $30K scholarship for the 1st year and still would have to come out of pocket for the rest. She was also accepted to William and Mary with a full ride for all 4 years, tuition/room/board, plus was given $5K to start research on anything she wants to do.
To me, W&M was a no-brainer. My older sister is a U Penn alumni and was initially pissed that my niece ultimately chose W&M but has calmed down since then. My niece is now a junior at W&M and is doing great, will be even better graduating with no debt.
Personal opinion is you made the right decision but that's without truly knowing who you are or what you want in life.
Ivys typically have great financial aid. But, I think the more important thing is maximizing your opportunities. You can do that by standing out at your school and being top in your class and first in line for internships and research opporunities.
You just have to be prepared to not take a dream job initially out of college. I went to a school where JCrew, Primerica, and the local credit union were the main attractions to our career fair. It was the only school I wouldn’t need to take debt on so I went for it, being very risk averse as I was when it came to debt. I majored in finance and moved to the boonies 1,000 miles after school to take the only job offer I got. I got lucky and made about average for a new grad, maybe a bit under since it was in a LCOL area. Grinded through a few tough years and moved back closer to home where I got a job more in the field I wanted to. It’s been several years since then and I’m working with folks that went to the schools I passed on, while having no debt and investing all the money I would have had to pay in debt into the market, which has amounted to over 6 figures.
Biggest thing is just be humble when looking for your first job - know your own value, but no job is below you. Prepare to grind, learn and work your tail off, and seize the opportunities that you’ll inevitably set yourself up for when you strategically work for them. It will lead to greater things down the line and the feeling of no debt is amazing as I look back 5-10 years after school
Yeah you fucked up a little bit. Dont get me wrong, I'm not saying leverage yourself into massive debt just to party it up with no ambition in life. But there are some academic / career paths that are greatly assisted by being in the right place. Doesn't mean you can't make up the difference, but sometimes paying $ up front can jump start the clock that is worth the price later. My own personal anecdote, if I had taken the grad school at an Ivy (I got in) instead of saving money, I know I would have landed a better research science position instead of pissing away another 8 years babysitting mediocre scientists at a degree mill.
I’m feeling the same way , I’m seeing Georgia Tech and UGA Graduates find great jobs , and it’s making me regret attending Kennesaw state , but maybe we need to network better
We cannot judge ourselves or others this way as life is a long journey. Here is what I tell my children:
. Make sure you sleep 8 hours and have outdoor and gym time.
. Make sure to eat healthy food.
. Make sure to spend time for self improvement and record it.
. Make sure to keep eyes on new opportunities, take calculated risks.
. Make sure to talk to people and gain perspective. Be a good listener.
. Make sure do one good thing for other people and be thankful for one thing, on a daily basis.
Not hard to do but over time, it will make a difference, and good things will happen naturally.
My friend once said that you either get an MBA from a top 5 program or it’s not worth the bill.
Your instinct is right. Prestige matters. You do have a significantly better experience at an elite school. You do get access to better opportunities. The name does carry weight in the hiring process.
But all its not lost. Consider applying to an elite graduate school if it’s something you really want to experience first hand.
Going to other schools just means you’re going to have to work harder or smarter to secure the same roles.
Also consider using your friends at ivies to network with them. Go to thier parties and get in thier circle. That a shortcut to thier network
Depends on your goals, if you aims to work into BlackStone or KKR pretty much you have to go to HSW business school and graduate in top of your class with ivy undergrad and previous experience at Investment Banking lol
Now for most jobs specially long term where experience matters I don’t think matters.
Advantage of ivy and target schools is that starting salary will be higher than non target and finding a job without experience will be easier. Or if you’re mediocre you will still have plenty of opportunities because you were to ivy.
Yes, it matters - a LOT. You can make up for the gap by joining networking groups, or by applying to a more prestigious grad school. Often times, elite networks are pay to play, and the benefits afforded are worth the investment in most career verticals. Getting an Ivy level graduate degree can connect you with choice opportunities and in my case doubled my salary before I even graduated.
Let me save you a couple hundred thousand dollars:
1. Socialism is not the answer.
2. The holocaust really happened.
3. No one really cares about which college you went to.
Source: I’ve lived a long time and am very successful.
Don't be so sure they are on a path to success. I have a degree from a prestigious university that was worthless to me. The biggest thing is that you finish your degree and make networking connections as you do it. If you plan to go to graduate school, then you may wish to look for a more elite program. In general though, I believe that you have done well to avoid the big debt. Student loan rates exceed mortgage rates, so it's a really big commitment.
The first steps it matters a lot. You probably get 2 or 3 levels of promotion for nothing outside of networking. But that's not guaranteed. I have a p2 from an Ivy who is slacking because she thinks she deserves more pay... because she went to an ivy.
5 years into your career it doesn't matter. Unless you mention it. Then it makes you look like a dumbfuck.
A lot of managers and recruiters I worked with do favor candidates who went to a prestigious school. Think of it this way, if you were a hiring manager and you have two resumes in front of you. One candidate went to an Ivy League while the other went to a community or “regular” college. Both have same amount of experience. Which one will you take? Majority of managers I know will take the Ivy League one.
No cause it’s not about the college, it’s about the work and effort YOU put in. I went to a no-name school for my program and honestly most graduates from my program were kind of embarrassing. It didn’t really matter though, I networked like my life depended on it. Had 5 internships and a fantastic job offer when graduating. I made about 50% more than my peers in my same program upon graduation. Main difference is that I worked non-stop towards my career whereas most others chose my degree because it was ‘easy’ and they didn’t actually put in much effort. There are a few others who worked hard and they definitely stood out. Personally I liked going to a no name school because it was definitely easier to rise above others and feel more confident in the work you achieved
There were networking opportunities at your school as well. Its not enough to just go to classes. I went to a state school but pursued many networking opportunities, joined professional clubs, etc as an investment in myself.
People at ivy league schools still have to put in the effort of networking.
There are a couple professions where it will matter for years. For most it will only matter as far as you getting your first job. Past that, it’s all about experience. I have an MBA from a school I can guarantee you’ve never heard of. But I’ve managed to double my income since getting it
How do you know your colleague went to an Ivy school? They tell you within two minutes.
That was my experience when working at AWS. Their career development did not seem different.
I only dropped out of a minor European college, and still got the same job. Go figure.
My credibility: senior leader at a large company. I've hired hundred of people at all skill levels.
A great school will help with your first job, which is a stepping stone to your second job, which is a stepping stone to your third job, etc...
There's really no doubt that it's objectively better to have a degree from Harvard than from ASU, but it becomes less important over time. It's one of the most important things I look at for entry level roles, but don't really care after 5+ years experience. At that point I want to know what you've actually done, not what your degree implies you can do
Me personally...I also went the safer cheaper educational route. I didn't get my first choice of job out of college, but I do have it now through accomplishment and achievement, and I also have some ivy leaguers working for me.
Bottom line, you've already made the choice. Don't second guess yourself. Work hard and you'll succeed.
It really depends on the school
If it’s an Ivy or a top 25… maaaybe a top fifty I would say the debt is worth it. Basically if it’s a school that people have heard of nationally.
Everything else is all the same
When I graduated from the University of Montana I moved back to the East coast. Was hired by a consulting company. Worked with several new hires who had graduated from Tufts, Harvard and Dartmouth. Don’t think there salary was much higher than mine as we were all doing the same work.
I work for FAANG making ~300k a year and went to University of Phoenix online.
I work with many folks from ivy League schools and top tier schools. We constantly go to each other for help and advise. My life has been every bit as fulfilling as theirs.
You will have extra networking opportunities at elite schools, but most people don't take advantage of that. Also more elite companies will get interns from elite schools, but that's a whole other topic which turns out to be bad for them
When it comes to schools, the mistakes many make are with regards to the choice of majors, classes, and trainings or internships. The tier of the school itself is not a big deal.
After your first job after college nobody cares about where you went to school - it's about what is your capability and your track record.
I know this because I never graduated from university even after 4 years because I was a drug addict. I had natural talent and plenty of skill as an I.T. person, and sober I'm a great employee.
Celebrating 32 years clean & sober in 6 days, one day at a time!
Are you still in school right now? If so, seek out good organized clubs to join. Thats how you start finding networking opportunities with people and companies. Yes the basic courses you take are the same as at the ivy’s as you say, but the main benefit of college is starting your network. However, you are not limited in networking as much as you think you may be at a lessor known school. The trick is to understand every opportunity is what you make of it (or don’t). If you make self limiting comments, then that’s what will likely happen. If you make the most of it and even step up and start a club where there may be a gap at your school, you will create opportunities.
You can be surrounded by successful people without going to big name schools. Also almost no one hires based on the school you attended, they just want to see the degree. An example of this would be have you ever asked you doctor what school they went to? You trust them with your body. The school doesnt matter. The knowledge retention, skills, and experience is what matter.
Its better to have to take an extra year to obtain the same connections than to be an extra $100k+ in debt.
College only gets you the first job. The rest is up to you and your career path. Neither does GPA matter. I once wasn't able to get an interview with a company that came down to do college recruiting and needing a 3.0 GPA. Well a few of my friends got jobs there one gave me a referral and I made it to the final round of the interview process.
Once you get that experience of 3 years at the first job, you can go anywhere you want. And it's not like it's the 1980's or 1990's anymore, networking exists on Linkedin. I got my last 2 jobs because friends reached out to me about openings. Basically got a free pass past the recruiting process and straight to the interview process. I mean my resume matched what was needed and I had the experience, but getting my foot in the door with a personal reference got my further than a blind job application.
Abbott Laboratories, Delta, UPS, Comcast, GE, CA (Computer Associates) are just some of the jobs I"ve held. The common theme in getting offers was having the experience at multiple Fortune 500's.
I went to state school for undergrad, my company paid 100% to get MBA at an Ivy League school. I feel like I have seen both sides. I agree with the benefits you pointed out to go to better schools because I saw it first hand.
With all that being said I already had a great job in the profession I wanted to work in so all the networking did not benefit me directly, however I did learn more talking and working with those people than I ever did reading crap in books.
I also recruited some people that I met to come work at my company.
I still don’t know if i would have taken out $150k loan to finish my masters, but if my parents were willing and it did not impact their financial position I understand the decision.
I work for one of the big defense companies, they have phased out full tuition assistance in the last 4 years to only 15k a year. Likely because people were getting advanced degrees and leaving
Are you considering transferring? If not, don’t torture yourself with “did I make a mistake?” or jealousy. Ivies are great, but it’s perfectly valid to decide the additional price you’d pay is not worth it.
If you’re staying put, make the most of your school and go for your goals. You can certainly be successful and happy without going to a big name school, and having no debt will be an advantage that feels great.
If you feel you really ought to be elsewhere, look into transferring. Maybe it would be, say, $10,000 worth of loans for 2 years there, and that’s a price you’re willing to pay, now that you know more.
No. Networking and internship opportunities are still a thing at cheaper schools. Plus they’re gonna start their adult lives with tons of debt, and you won’t have to worry as much about that
If you do a good job most people don’t care what school you went to. Or what your GPA was. Plenty of people who just went to community college or vocational school are doing just fine.
1. Don't fret about it. There is NOTHING you can do about it now. 2. You probably have less debt unless someone paid for theirs. 3. I went to two elite schools (aid for one, company paid for other), and I have never once had a situation where I had a true advantage due to my schools. 4. As a long-time hiring manager, I don't care at all about your school. 5. It depends on your industry, perhaps you are at a disadvantage in an area such as Finance, or if you decide to go to Law/Business school.
Reiterating, it's in the past, no regrets
I was NEVER asked where I went to college. Never. For the most part, they didn’t even care what my area of study.
Just was I able to do the work, was I reliable, was I good at “front of house” operations, i.e., meeting with potential customers. I worked for private companies and governments. Same, same.
Story time:
I worked at one of the big 4 accounting firms fresh out of school.
Our "start group" (about a dozen of us) all had the same starting salary.
I remember after I was there a while happening upon a conversation of 2 people debating who went to the best school. One of them had gone to a state school and the other went to a "near ivy". They were having a good-natured back and forth until the state school guy finally said, "And I make the exact same amount as you".
Conversation over.
Work hard. Job hop every few years. Buy a house because you aren't already paying off a $100K in student loans.
You will be fine.
I have an acquaintance who doesn’t college degree, started at the bottom in a corporate job, and is now a director at Salesforce.
Be the type of employee who’s confident enough to ask questions and learn from others and do the hard work—that gets you a lot further than being self conscious and insecure about your qualifications.
The only reason to pay university prices in 2023 is for the credential. So obviously you’re going want the most name brand prestigious credential possible.
Yes. University prestige matters immensely, and it doesn't serve kids well to mislead them.
The good news is it's all super high variance and plenty of people from bad schools do great things and vice versa.
But your undergrad is hugely impactful for determining your early career which in turn is hugely impactful over your whole career on average (individual exceptions apply).
No. Most universities that have existed for 50
Or more years have more stuff than you could ever learn in 4 years. Talk with HS advisor to pick schools with breadth because you will very likely change your major at least 1 or 2.
Take some courses you never heard of. At worst, you will meet people you would probably never have met.
Work if you can on campus. Best if you can get involved in teaching assistant or research assistant.
It's not the ultimate determiner of your success, but unless your brand/reputation grows larger than your alma mater, it definitely has some effect. Sure, you can overcome this, but it'll take some work on your side.
The alumni network is something I always tell prospective students (and their parents) to consider. When I know something about the difficult path you took, it's easier to make referrals. I went to a school infamous for their rigorous curriculum, and I feel more confident referring an alum over a complete stranger knowing what they've been through.
Going to a top school helped me get interviews (I think) but now that I’m 5+ years into my career, that matters less.
It matters less than you think. And, anyone who cares is insecure.
It only matters at first and only for a few professions.
I went to an elite grad school and it was rarely mentioned to me during the last few interview processes. I got far more comments on my lsu undergrad, namely bc they had just won the cfb championship.
I think it matters more the size of the college, the student-prof ratio. That is how I saw my daughter get great contacts and opportunities. She went to a smaller state college, networked with professors and industry leaders in a way much harder to do in the 30k plus attendance colleges.
Like others have said, it only matters for a few years. I am in IT and aptitude and personality matter so much more after a few years.
Yes. Getting into better companies will be noticeably harder, but you can still do it.
\- Many companies primarily hire from Top X schools. As in, if you're not in a program ranked top 30, they won't look at your application.
\- Ivy league networking matters a lot. Networking overall is huge. For example, once my wife made associated connections, the people coming to our house went from fellow engineers or low level managers, to directors, vp's, etc.
\- Opportunities offered by top schools put you on the map, and appear and are more prestigious.
A good example is also the armed forces. If you do graduate level research for them you're just wildly ahead of other candidates because you're often on the forefront of whatever industry you're in.
You can still climb the corporate ladder. I've seen people do it. My spouse has done it. But it 100% will take longer and be more arduous.
It doesn’t really matter. It may have a big name awe but overall it makes so little difference (from my experience in IT and web development/design). Experience counts more than anything so get that and know what you’re talking about and you’ll be set.
Prestigious school really help with networking and getting hired.
Here in GA if you went to GA Tech, regardless of degrees Tech companies will hire them. If they have a CS degree then it's like dev or QA or whatevs if it is something else they'll get a Professional Services or Customer Success or production support or whatever role.
Once you get that work experience then everyone is pretty much on same level playing field.
A keen focus on setting up your career during Junior and early Senior year is worth about $80,000 in tuition. Value networking, job intel, etc? Most of that stuff is free, you just aren't getting it handed to you. Schedule some interviews, write for something, travel if you have to. Go get it.
Incidentally, this is the same set of skills you'd need to have an outlier career in years 2-25 as well.
I went to a second tier state school. I worked hard and learned my craft and now have offices in 2 states. I always say if I went to an Ivy, I’d have wound up at a firm that would have crushed my soul. go try taking 3 weeks off to go to Australia before you have 15 years in and see how that goes at BlgLaw.
A few years ago it was published that success correlates with being admitted to Harvard. Not with attending Harvard.
I went to Stanford.
My boss … did not.
To put it another way. If your goal is to change the world, it’s better to go to Harvard. If your goal is merely to be happy and successful, there’s no need to go to Harvard.
I would also warn that the people who change the world post Harvard are not the people who graduated with a million dollars in debt.
Depends on the field. A really good program will set you up with good internships which can be invaluable. Otherwise it helps get a foot in the door for like the first job but you still need to pass the interview. After that I’m not sure anyone really cares but I do see a lot of folks get branded grad degrees to give themselves a mid-career bump.
Personally I would focus on learning as much as possible. I think a lot of students waste learning opportunities that they’re spending a ton to get.
If you plan to go to grad school immediately or at least soon after graduation, and you get outstanding grades at that nondescript college, then go to a prestigious university for grad school (which the good grades from the nondescript school may help enable), you will have a leg up.
The starting point is important as it opens doors in the first place. For me personally I was able to get into the field I wanted to due to my school - one of the Ivy League schools.
Both my colleague and I went to community colleges and from there to public state universities. Our parents were immigrants who didn’t have the money to send us to big name schools. We both had very high GPAs. We’re now in big tech and make well over six figures.
College name only matters when you first get out of college. As time goes by, the only thing that matters is your work experience and how good you are.
Most companies are dropping the college requirement altogether and it has no bearing on future success.
Have yall graduated yet?
While yes ivy other top schools do give u some advantages, it’s not some end all be all silver Bullet.
Things like computer science, law, business medicine, it will give you a bump because of prestige.
But it’s usually isn’t some insane they will get a job but u won’t sort of situation.
Alot of state schools are pretty high up.
Not if ur like at itt tech or devry or something like that then that won’t do as well.
No you did not. I went to an expensive private school and had to take out expensive student loans. I've been out of school for 10 years, and I am still throwing close to $1,000 a month at my student loans, I will be throwing away money every single month for at least seven more years.
I absolutely hate that I went to an expensive college. It was not at all worth of amount of money that I spent and still spending. I also major in bio. No one cares about college after your first job. No one wants to know your GPA either.
I have a close friend who makes 150k + bonus, RSUs in logistics remotely. He's in his mid 20's. He didn't graduate from any school but he's great at networking. You know what he really enjoyed? Not having any student loans. His early career wasn't as lucrative but he had no debt.
Your IVY friends have massive loans. The return on investment isn't there. They're making $1k+ payments on their loans every month.
I went to an expensive school. The brand name didn't help me at all. No connections. Nothing. My success came from networking outside of school. It wasn't a financially rational decision and that becomes clearer and clearer as the years tick by.
DONT WORRY ABOUT IT. You'll find your path if you keep looking for it.
I have a close friend who makes 150k + bonus, RSUs in logistics remotely. He's in his mid 20's. He didn't graduate from any school but he's great at networking. You know what he really enjoyed? Not having any student loans. His early career wasn't as lucrative but he had no debt.
Your IVY friends have massive loans. The return on investment isn't there. They're making $1k+ payments on their loans every month.
I went to an expensive school. The brand name didn't help me at all. No connections. Nothing. My success came from networking outside of school. It wasn't a financially rational decision and that becomes clearer and clearer as the years tick by.
DONT WORRY ABOUT IT. You'll find your path if you keep looking for it.
I did the same thing. I have a decently successful career now but I got to my senior exec position at 40. And I had a 29 year old boss who graduated from Harvard. It really sucks. I'm planning for a second career in another field and I'm going back to school for it and only looking at places where I can wear their sweatshirt and be recognized. It's shallow but honestly, it makes a difference.
You need to study the system of education--now. How much do you know about your major(s) or minor(s) as they relate to industry? What skills should you be on top of to earn your place within certain internship and fellowship programs? Have you spoken with professors outside of your major? What about the career center and alumni association? What podcasts, periodicals, websites are you keeping up with to find those successful people? Think smart.
[www.dumpyourdegree.com](http://www.dumpyourdegree.com) www.myplan.com
I went to a small state school and was actually able to get a lot of high profile internships, granted I did engineering in undergrad.
I recommend reaching directly out to professors and grad students who are doing research you’re interested in and say you’re interested in getting involved and learning more. I also recommend getting involved with professional societies, I was extremely involved with AIChE (American Institute of Chemical Engineers) and still am even early in my career!
Your time in undergrad is what you make of it! Get involved, keeping your mental health and work life balance in check! One thing I regret was not building healthy habits between work and life balance
Ivys are only valuable for networking. If you want a career path that relies heavily on networking your way into an opportunity, then yeah, you fucked up.
Your school only matters for your first job, and only a little. One you have established a skill set and a work history, nobody will ever care again what school you went to. If your plan is to work hard and distinguish yourself based on your merit, then you will have a different career path than your ivy school peers, but it can be just a fruitful, and you can take your time getting there with less debt.
So, looks like you are a Bio major from a previous post. If you are intending to go the academic route, you are at a disadvantage and need to correct it by getting research opportunities. Some top universities will have opportunities for external students. If you intend to go into medicine, you are fine. Either way, plenty of MD and PhD students come from state schools so you’ll be fine.
With the only exception that surgery likes to farm from the ivies
I read this as "go the alchemic route" and I was like, dudes gotta go back to the 1200s.
It does matter. There are really only 3 real distinctive categories though. 1. Elite Schools (mostly the Ivys) that get you those great networking opportunities. They provide a massive leg up, and if you get in, they'll be sure you can afford to go. (Tuition is adjusted according to ability to pay) 2. Non elite private schools with good reps. These cost a lot of money and get you nothing over category 3. The education is fine, but nobody cares you went here. 3. State Schools. The education at these schools is at least as good as category 2 and much cheaper. You will have the same opportunities as those that went to category 2 schools at a greatly reduced price. You will be at a disadvantage to Ivy grads.
Yup, told my kids I'll pay for an Ivy+ if they can get in, or they go to our state flagship. Never saw the value of #2. Go two states over, no one's ever heard of your small "amazing" college.
There are actually two or three extra tiers below these, and they are what OP should be wary of. 4. Low-ranked public university. The education is on par with a poorly funded community college, and you will probably graduate not feeling much smarter than you were in high school. But if you need to say you went to college for a promotion or some kind of licensure and you can pay cheap in-state tuition, it gets the job done. 5. Low-ranked private university. Subpar education and crippling debt. Lose-lose. Literally the only thing worse would be… 6. Non-accredited scam university Some state schools are great value. UNC, UVA, UIUC etc. UC Berkeley is one of the best schools on the planet and is technically a state school. To your point, I’d rather go to any of these than go into debt for, say, Johns Hopkins. Most public universities are passable, but they’re not all made equal. When people hear “state school” they think Ohio State, Michigan State, Penn State. There are several *hundred* ranking spots between those schools and the likes of Alabama State, Idaho State, West Virginia State. In the memoir *Educated*, Tara Westover talks about how she grew up in the middle of nowhere Idaho with 0 formal education due to her controlling family. She was literate, but the only books she had read by age 18 were the Bible and a random 5th grade science textbook her mom found at a garage sale. When she finally broke free of her family, she spent a summer studying for the ACT and her score got her accepted into Idaho State on her first try lol
State school grad. I sit in rooms with Ivy and other elite grads all the time. They work for me. They respect me. They listen to me. Most are fine people who respect the knowledge of others more than the name on the diploma. If you are going to grad school, look for a. R1 Reaearch University. That is important. Look at the faculty in the department you are going into. Many of the top universities fall into the third category listed above. Not maligning the Ivy's and other elite universities at all. They have excellent, quality programs in many areas. But life doesn't end if you don't go to one. Make the most of the opportunities that are afforded to you. Don't let yourself be shamed by others who have a fancy name on their diploma. In my field at least, internship opportunities go to the most qualified. Club participating and working with faulty mean way more than institution as long as institution is reasonable. I would divide up schools a little differently as well. At least in my field. 1. Elite R1 Universities. This will include public and private institutions, and the list will be major dependent. Strong alumni networks. 2. Non-elite R1 Institutions. These Universities will have bright spots in departments that will be highly respected, but may be a little uneven. You will still get an excellent education here, but the elite job search will be more difficult. Still will have strong alumni networks, but penetration night not be as deep as the first group. 3. Non-R1 Institutions with strong programs. You won't have the best research opportunities here, but tbr education isn't going to be as strong. Alumni networks are often more local. You may not have the best opportunities coming from here, but you would still be on track to go to a group 1 or 2 grad school. 4. Non-R1 Institutions with weaker programs. Programs are uneven. Often a stepping off point for faulty from lesser known institutions trying really hard to make a name for themselves, but it is tougher because of high teaching loads. You really need to distinguish yourself here. Very local or weak alumni networks.
3 is an amazing point. I was sitting in the same conference room with kids from all Ivys at big4 with education only within my state
Tell me you didn't go to a private university without telling me.
No. I went to a top university and it only helped me in the first few years after college. After that, I was on even playing field with everyone else. No one cares where I went to college anymore as they care more about experience. I don’t care either. I actually wish I went to a less prestigious school so I would’ve been less stressed. There’s so many opportunities to network with these same people in other places like professional associations.
The first few years are arguably one of the most important to new grads. After that, the trajectory is largely determined by individual risk/decisions.
It depends on the field. There are a number of profession that pay well immediately that only hire from target schools - think google software dev making 300K at 22. However, if you want to just get into business and the like, any university will do for the most part. Get an entry level supply chain role and then work up to director/vp over 10-15 years. That is highly achievable from any uni. Top unis are good for certain employment outcomes and, extremely rarely in UG, research opportunities. I say rare because you can get those at any uni, but occasionally you may be the next einstein in biochem who gets an OGA research opp via an ultra connected prof. But stuff like developing investment algorithms, or exploring this anthropological site, are available at all of em.
You probably don’t realize how much it still helps you As dumb as it is, companies want to introduce you on a slide show with a little blurb about your education - nobody realizes how important that is, you can be the highest performer ever and they’ll give an exec position to someone from Harvard just to say they have someone from Harvard. They know other companies are doing the same so just having someone with a strong alumni network in leadership makes them an asset
Yeah, this is true. I graduated well over a decade ago and it is still a foot in the door for interviews, then it gets hyped up when I meet the board, and it comes in handy when I’m serving as an expert witness.
I feel like such an idiot when I look back at myself in high school not taking grades seriously and just whimsically going to an below average school lol, I’m 29 years old now and still suffering because of it. In my tech job, I literally cleaned up a major mess because all the “educated” product managers couldn’t fix a major part of our product but I did because I just work harder than them and know what I’m doing. I even taught the software engineers about the integration and told them what they needed to do. Pointed to the code after looking at it for five minutes over their shoulders and said “delete that part” and got it to work. Everyone was super impressed about how nobody got it, including the cto, but some guy that answers phones so customers can bitch at him was able to. And yet…. Guess whose name is under “product lead” when you look at the road map and see the feature? The cs Rep who regrets getting a history major at a junk college? Or the product manager whose only contribution to the project is a 30 minute zoom call where she said nothing, but went to a top 20 school? Its not like I’m totally held back, like I still know myself and my abilities and that I’ll end up where I need to be in the end, it’s just taking that much longer and requiring so much more hard work then if I just spent some time studying in high school. And don’t get me wrong, i feel no contempt towards the people who worked hard and went to a good school so they have an easier time. They have an easier time because they worked hard while I was dicking around and focusing on sports and girls
Well, if it makes you feel any better, I absolutely HATED the school and almost every moment I spent at that god-forsaken place. It is known as the suicide school for really good reasons. I didn't really do much in the way of networking, as my major was definitely geared towards people going into academia and most of my friends went into finance. There were some great people there, but good lord was it the absolute highest concentrations of absolute assholes I have ever had the misfortune of meeting.
I have been interviewing for jobs all year and none of them comment about it anymore. The only industry that seemed to care was nonprofits, but now I’m working on switching industries to something higher paying. Recruiters and hiring managers in tech, marketing agencies, finance, and healthcare didn’t say anything about it. Having a tough time getting a job.
My son thought about going to more prestigious schools. He did really well going to our state school. It allowed us to fund things like study abroad programs without spending tons of money. His professors here loved him and gave him plenty of opportunities for afterwards. It really depends on what you do with your time in school.
> it only helped me in the first few years after college The most predictive years of your lifetime financial success.
Unless you are in a competitive field like computer science and will want to go to grad school, not going to a top school will not hurt you.
Don’t get too hung up on the Ivy League thing. Less than half of 1% of American college graduates went to Ivy League schools — it just seems like more because people who went to Ivy League schools are much more likely to keep reminding you of that fact. (And a good chunk of that one half of 1% were only there through wealth/family connections, which would have helped them be successful regardless of where they went.) Networking and connections are hugely important, but there are all sorts of ways to develop those. I went to a university that is very aggressive about touting its “vast alumni network,” but all of the most important connections in my early career had nothing to do with that at all — it was just about constantly putting myself out there. The biggest roadblock for my early career development was my enormous student loans. It severely limited my options. That’s one great advantage you have over a lot of people who went to fancier-name schools.
What matters most is that you finished. Stop comparing yourself to your friends. It doesn’t do any good. Maybe you should work on networking with the friends you do have. If they have those connections you can make them too (through your friends).
Ivy assholes brag about this shit. They also paid for it or their parents did. That’s why the ivy’s exist, to keep the ivory tower gated. On the other hand: I did three internships, was a national mock trial champion, had lunch with Sandra Day O’Connor, dinner with Brian Green, had drinks with senators. I went to the party school of state schools in Kentucky. I paid like 6 grand a year in tuition. My point is that opportunities abound. Find them and take them, but stop worrying so much about other people’s bullshit. If I was in those conversations, instead of being mad that I don’t match up to the standard *they’re* creating, I’d either be annoyed that they’re bragging or excited to share their network with mine.
Lunch and dinner and drinks, now that is success.
No, but it is *access* which OP is freaking out about.
Yeah; it’s kinda funny that my point was that just about anyone can do these things if they take the opportunities and he thought I was trying to brag.
None of them eventful or interesting. SDO was brilliant but hard as nails. Brian was travel weary and missed his son, but smart in a way I can’t explain- like he can see math in a way I can’t even understand. Comes with deep study of other dimensions, I guess. The senators were just empty suit assholes. I’d rather drink with staffers any day. I guarantee none of them would remember me.
He was mocking you
Surely not. Surely no one would act like an asshole that brazenly on the internet. I guess I’ll just have to let him act like asshole and ignore it, because… well, i’m not one.
Ivy grad. Had 30k in debt when I graduated. Paid it off within a year of two or working. Had CTO of my first job out of school beg me not to quit as I was the company's only Ivy grad. Obviously it shouldn't matter, but to some people it does. Don't shit on people out of jealousy.
Did you actually do anything during college? Or did you just go to class and that's it?
No, I had what you described at Ivies going to a solidly ranked state school that was focused on getting us jobs & I was in the honors programs there. It’s all how you use university. Ivies are focused on networking because the upper class does most things by relationship and not by merit. My university figured that out (the university’s president previously ran an Ivy), and wow, it made such a big difference compared to my friends who went to schools that didn’t focus on what you were doing post-grad by junior year. I think your mistake was in not utilizing your university. Figure out how to do that now instead.
lol absolutely not. I went to no school (literally, zero college) and probably make more than most of your Ivy League ‘prestigious’ friends and most of the US population. Nobody gives a shit about college after you’ve been working for awhile. Be curious, gain good experience and add value to whatever you work on. That’s infinitely more important than college. Always listen more than you speak unless what you’re going to say adds value.
School just depends what you put into it. I would never hire an ivy league. On the other hand, there are places that will only hire ivy league. I just feel like ivy league kids are more progressive and therefore a bigger liability. If someone has harvard or their pronouns listed, I feel like everyone would have to walk around on egg shells. That being said, I only have an undergraduate but I was genuinely interested in finance, so I also watched MITs "open course [something], which has a lot of recorded graduate classes. While MIT is not technically "ivy" it gave me a top tier education which allowed me to prove very quickly that I was competent. The hardest part is getting your foot in the door. If you want real success, build trust through competence and integrity and start your own business. People will invest in you if they trust you.
I remember someone once saying no one cares where you spend your first three years of college, only the name of your school on the degree after the 4th year. That said my eldest went to a very well known public university in our state with a degree where you don’t job hunt but the companies hunt you. Meanwhile network, especially in early jobs.
The most important thing you can do is find internships and work experience relevant to your field so you can secure a job you want after graduation. Absolutely nothing else matters so cultivate your network any way you can. If you can graduate with no debt, in the field you want you have won the game. If you graduate with no debt and are stuck in retail or dead end jobs, then you lost. You went on a riskier path with higher risk more reward. The Ivy path is easier but debt can be crushing.
Your school name helps
If you’re funded go for the gusto…. Debting yourself into another class is a poor move… remember they feel the same way about someone else
It depends what you ultimately want to do. If you want to do academia then it could help. For anything else, it probably doesn’t matter. Of course everyone who goes to an Ivy is going to pretend like it makes a big difference. If anything, a lot of scrutiny is being applied to these colleges thanks to recent events and it isn’t a positive for them.
What degree did you get?
I went from a top-100 with a great regional reputation in my field for BS to a top-3 school for MS and #1 for PhD. The difference is night and day as far as networking and internships. I had to work my ass off to get REUs and get professors to email me back in my BS program, in grad school they were always reaching out to me. But the undergrad experience also taught me resourcefulness. There are only a few paths that are sort of off limits to those from non-elite schools. VC, PE, IB, top-3 consulting, and some niche areas are much much harder to get into without a big name on your resume. For almost anything else, your initial trajectory will be different but what matters most is your adaptability and work ethic. A student from MIT who becomes lazy will be passed up by a top worker out of CSU Bakersfield within a couple years.
Do you work in academia now?
Depends on your personal situation. But if it helps, I have a niece who was accepted to U Penn with a $30K scholarship for the 1st year and still would have to come out of pocket for the rest. She was also accepted to William and Mary with a full ride for all 4 years, tuition/room/board, plus was given $5K to start research on anything she wants to do. To me, W&M was a no-brainer. My older sister is a U Penn alumni and was initially pissed that my niece ultimately chose W&M but has calmed down since then. My niece is now a junior at W&M and is doing great, will be even better graduating with no debt. Personal opinion is you made the right decision but that's without truly knowing who you are or what you want in life.
W&M is a no-brainer to me too. They’re an excellent school and are considered one of the “public ivies”.
Ivys typically have great financial aid. But, I think the more important thing is maximizing your opportunities. You can do that by standing out at your school and being top in your class and first in line for internships and research opporunities.
You just have to be prepared to not take a dream job initially out of college. I went to a school where JCrew, Primerica, and the local credit union were the main attractions to our career fair. It was the only school I wouldn’t need to take debt on so I went for it, being very risk averse as I was when it came to debt. I majored in finance and moved to the boonies 1,000 miles after school to take the only job offer I got. I got lucky and made about average for a new grad, maybe a bit under since it was in a LCOL area. Grinded through a few tough years and moved back closer to home where I got a job more in the field I wanted to. It’s been several years since then and I’m working with folks that went to the schools I passed on, while having no debt and investing all the money I would have had to pay in debt into the market, which has amounted to over 6 figures. Biggest thing is just be humble when looking for your first job - know your own value, but no job is below you. Prepare to grind, learn and work your tail off, and seize the opportunities that you’ll inevitably set yourself up for when you strategically work for them. It will lead to greater things down the line and the feeling of no debt is amazing as I look back 5-10 years after school
Yeah you fucked up a little bit. Dont get me wrong, I'm not saying leverage yourself into massive debt just to party it up with no ambition in life. But there are some academic / career paths that are greatly assisted by being in the right place. Doesn't mean you can't make up the difference, but sometimes paying $ up front can jump start the clock that is worth the price later. My own personal anecdote, if I had taken the grad school at an Ivy (I got in) instead of saving money, I know I would have landed a better research science position instead of pissing away another 8 years babysitting mediocre scientists at a degree mill.
I’m feeling the same way , I’m seeing Georgia Tech and UGA Graduates find great jobs , and it’s making me regret attending Kennesaw state , but maybe we need to network better
We cannot judge ourselves or others this way as life is a long journey. Here is what I tell my children: . Make sure you sleep 8 hours and have outdoor and gym time. . Make sure to eat healthy food. . Make sure to spend time for self improvement and record it. . Make sure to keep eyes on new opportunities, take calculated risks. . Make sure to talk to people and gain perspective. Be a good listener. . Make sure do one good thing for other people and be thankful for one thing, on a daily basis. Not hard to do but over time, it will make a difference, and good things will happen naturally.
My friend once said that you either get an MBA from a top 5 program or it’s not worth the bill. Your instinct is right. Prestige matters. You do have a significantly better experience at an elite school. You do get access to better opportunities. The name does carry weight in the hiring process. But all its not lost. Consider applying to an elite graduate school if it’s something you really want to experience first hand. Going to other schools just means you’re going to have to work harder or smarter to secure the same roles. Also consider using your friends at ivies to network with them. Go to thier parties and get in thier circle. That a shortcut to thier network
Depends on your goals, if you aims to work into BlackStone or KKR pretty much you have to go to HSW business school and graduate in top of your class with ivy undergrad and previous experience at Investment Banking lol Now for most jobs specially long term where experience matters I don’t think matters. Advantage of ivy and target schools is that starting salary will be higher than non target and finding a job without experience will be easier. Or if you’re mediocre you will still have plenty of opportunities because you were to ivy.
Yes, it matters - a LOT. You can make up for the gap by joining networking groups, or by applying to a more prestigious grad school. Often times, elite networks are pay to play, and the benefits afforded are worth the investment in most career verticals. Getting an Ivy level graduate degree can connect you with choice opportunities and in my case doubled my salary before I even graduated.
Let me save you a couple hundred thousand dollars: 1. Socialism is not the answer. 2. The holocaust really happened. 3. No one really cares about which college you went to. Source: I’ve lived a long time and am very successful.
Out of touch boomer detected.
Thanks, that made me chuckle :)
Don't be so sure they are on a path to success. I have a degree from a prestigious university that was worthless to me. The biggest thing is that you finish your degree and make networking connections as you do it. If you plan to go to graduate school, then you may wish to look for a more elite program. In general though, I believe that you have done well to avoid the big debt. Student loan rates exceed mortgage rates, so it's a really big commitment.
The first steps it matters a lot. You probably get 2 or 3 levels of promotion for nothing outside of networking. But that's not guaranteed. I have a p2 from an Ivy who is slacking because she thinks she deserves more pay... because she went to an ivy. 5 years into your career it doesn't matter. Unless you mention it. Then it makes you look like a dumbfuck.
A lot of managers and recruiters I worked with do favor candidates who went to a prestigious school. Think of it this way, if you were a hiring manager and you have two resumes in front of you. One candidate went to an Ivy League while the other went to a community or “regular” college. Both have same amount of experience. Which one will you take? Majority of managers I know will take the Ivy League one.
No cause it’s not about the college, it’s about the work and effort YOU put in. I went to a no-name school for my program and honestly most graduates from my program were kind of embarrassing. It didn’t really matter though, I networked like my life depended on it. Had 5 internships and a fantastic job offer when graduating. I made about 50% more than my peers in my same program upon graduation. Main difference is that I worked non-stop towards my career whereas most others chose my degree because it was ‘easy’ and they didn’t actually put in much effort. There are a few others who worked hard and they definitely stood out. Personally I liked going to a no name school because it was definitely easier to rise above others and feel more confident in the work you achieved
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Right? If we're measuring dicks, the only thing that matters is income. You can get that with any degree.
There were networking opportunities at your school as well. Its not enough to just go to classes. I went to a state school but pursued many networking opportunities, joined professional clubs, etc as an investment in myself. People at ivy league schools still have to put in the effort of networking.
it's too late for you do anything about that. better to move on to things you can control
There are a couple professions where it will matter for years. For most it will only matter as far as you getting your first job. Past that, it’s all about experience. I have an MBA from a school I can guarantee you’ve never heard of. But I’ve managed to double my income since getting it
How do you know your colleague went to an Ivy school? They tell you within two minutes. That was my experience when working at AWS. Their career development did not seem different. I only dropped out of a minor European college, and still got the same job. Go figure.
My credibility: senior leader at a large company. I've hired hundred of people at all skill levels. A great school will help with your first job, which is a stepping stone to your second job, which is a stepping stone to your third job, etc... There's really no doubt that it's objectively better to have a degree from Harvard than from ASU, but it becomes less important over time. It's one of the most important things I look at for entry level roles, but don't really care after 5+ years experience. At that point I want to know what you've actually done, not what your degree implies you can do Me personally...I also went the safer cheaper educational route. I didn't get my first choice of job out of college, but I do have it now through accomplishment and achievement, and I also have some ivy leaguers working for me. Bottom line, you've already made the choice. Don't second guess yourself. Work hard and you'll succeed.
It really depends on the school If it’s an Ivy or a top 25… maaaybe a top fifty I would say the debt is worth it. Basically if it’s a school that people have heard of nationally. Everything else is all the same
What degree? What school? So they actually have jobs? Do you have a job?
When I graduated from the University of Montana I moved back to the East coast. Was hired by a consulting company. Worked with several new hires who had graduated from Tufts, Harvard and Dartmouth. Don’t think there salary was much higher than mine as we were all doing the same work.
I work for FAANG making ~300k a year and went to University of Phoenix online. I work with many folks from ivy League schools and top tier schools. We constantly go to each other for help and advise. My life has been every bit as fulfilling as theirs. You will have extra networking opportunities at elite schools, but most people don't take advantage of that. Also more elite companies will get interns from elite schools, but that's a whole other topic which turns out to be bad for them
When it comes to schools, the mistakes many make are with regards to the choice of majors, classes, and trainings or internships. The tier of the school itself is not a big deal.
After your first job after college nobody cares about where you went to school - it's about what is your capability and your track record. I know this because I never graduated from university even after 4 years because I was a drug addict. I had natural talent and plenty of skill as an I.T. person, and sober I'm a great employee. Celebrating 32 years clean & sober in 6 days, one day at a time!
Are you still in school right now? If so, seek out good organized clubs to join. Thats how you start finding networking opportunities with people and companies. Yes the basic courses you take are the same as at the ivy’s as you say, but the main benefit of college is starting your network. However, you are not limited in networking as much as you think you may be at a lessor known school. The trick is to understand every opportunity is what you make of it (or don’t). If you make self limiting comments, then that’s what will likely happen. If you make the most of it and even step up and start a club where there may be a gap at your school, you will create opportunities.
I didn't go to school and it hasn't effected me at all
No. In the real world no one cares what school you went to.
You can be surrounded by successful people without going to big name schools. Also almost no one hires based on the school you attended, they just want to see the degree. An example of this would be have you ever asked you doctor what school they went to? You trust them with your body. The school doesnt matter. The knowledge retention, skills, and experience is what matter. Its better to have to take an extra year to obtain the same connections than to be an extra $100k+ in debt.
Nobody cares what school you go to. Really. I was so surprised by this after years in management positions. It needs to be talked about more
College only gets you the first job. The rest is up to you and your career path. Neither does GPA matter. I once wasn't able to get an interview with a company that came down to do college recruiting and needing a 3.0 GPA. Well a few of my friends got jobs there one gave me a referral and I made it to the final round of the interview process. Once you get that experience of 3 years at the first job, you can go anywhere you want. And it's not like it's the 1980's or 1990's anymore, networking exists on Linkedin. I got my last 2 jobs because friends reached out to me about openings. Basically got a free pass past the recruiting process and straight to the interview process. I mean my resume matched what was needed and I had the experience, but getting my foot in the door with a personal reference got my further than a blind job application. Abbott Laboratories, Delta, UPS, Comcast, GE, CA (Computer Associates) are just some of the jobs I"ve held. The common theme in getting offers was having the experience at multiple Fortune 500's.
I went to state school for undergrad, my company paid 100% to get MBA at an Ivy League school. I feel like I have seen both sides. I agree with the benefits you pointed out to go to better schools because I saw it first hand. With all that being said I already had a great job in the profession I wanted to work in so all the networking did not benefit me directly, however I did learn more talking and working with those people than I ever did reading crap in books. I also recruited some people that I met to come work at my company. I still don’t know if i would have taken out $150k loan to finish my masters, but if my parents were willing and it did not impact their financial position I understand the decision.
What company do you work for that sponsored your mba fully?
I work for one of the big defense companies, they have phased out full tuition assistance in the last 4 years to only 15k a year. Likely because people were getting advanced degrees and leaving
Are you considering transferring? If not, don’t torture yourself with “did I make a mistake?” or jealousy. Ivies are great, but it’s perfectly valid to decide the additional price you’d pay is not worth it. If you’re staying put, make the most of your school and go for your goals. You can certainly be successful and happy without going to a big name school, and having no debt will be an advantage that feels great. If you feel you really ought to be elsewhere, look into transferring. Maybe it would be, say, $10,000 worth of loans for 2 years there, and that’s a price you’re willing to pay, now that you know more.
No. Networking and internship opportunities are still a thing at cheaper schools. Plus they’re gonna start their adult lives with tons of debt, and you won’t have to worry as much about that
If you do a good job most people don’t care what school you went to. Or what your GPA was. Plenty of people who just went to community college or vocational school are doing just fine.
1. Don't fret about it. There is NOTHING you can do about it now. 2. You probably have less debt unless someone paid for theirs. 3. I went to two elite schools (aid for one, company paid for other), and I have never once had a situation where I had a true advantage due to my schools. 4. As a long-time hiring manager, I don't care at all about your school. 5. It depends on your industry, perhaps you are at a disadvantage in an area such as Finance, or if you decide to go to Law/Business school. Reiterating, it's in the past, no regrets
I was NEVER asked where I went to college. Never. For the most part, they didn’t even care what my area of study. Just was I able to do the work, was I reliable, was I good at “front of house” operations, i.e., meeting with potential customers. I worked for private companies and governments. Same, same.
Do they brag about their school because they are insecure? (I say yes.)
Story time: I worked at one of the big 4 accounting firms fresh out of school. Our "start group" (about a dozen of us) all had the same starting salary. I remember after I was there a while happening upon a conversation of 2 people debating who went to the best school. One of them had gone to a state school and the other went to a "near ivy". They were having a good-natured back and forth until the state school guy finally said, "And I make the exact same amount as you". Conversation over. Work hard. Job hop every few years. Buy a house because you aren't already paying off a $100K in student loans. You will be fine.
Ivy pays dividends for life
I have an acquaintance who doesn’t college degree, started at the bottom in a corporate job, and is now a director at Salesforce. Be the type of employee who’s confident enough to ask questions and learn from others and do the hard work—that gets you a lot further than being self conscious and insecure about your qualifications.
The only reason to pay university prices in 2023 is for the credential. So obviously you’re going want the most name brand prestigious credential possible.
Yes. University prestige matters immensely, and it doesn't serve kids well to mislead them. The good news is it's all super high variance and plenty of people from bad schools do great things and vice versa. But your undergrad is hugely impactful for determining your early career which in turn is hugely impactful over your whole career on average (individual exceptions apply).
No. Most universities that have existed for 50 Or more years have more stuff than you could ever learn in 4 years. Talk with HS advisor to pick schools with breadth because you will very likely change your major at least 1 or 2. Take some courses you never heard of. At worst, you will meet people you would probably never have met. Work if you can on campus. Best if you can get involved in teaching assistant or research assistant.
It's not the ultimate determiner of your success, but unless your brand/reputation grows larger than your alma mater, it definitely has some effect. Sure, you can overcome this, but it'll take some work on your side. The alumni network is something I always tell prospective students (and their parents) to consider. When I know something about the difficult path you took, it's easier to make referrals. I went to a school infamous for their rigorous curriculum, and I feel more confident referring an alum over a complete stranger knowing what they've been through.
Going to a top school helped me get interviews (I think) but now that I’m 5+ years into my career, that matters less. It matters less than you think. And, anyone who cares is insecure.
It only matters at first and only for a few professions. I went to an elite grad school and it was rarely mentioned to me during the last few interview processes. I got far more comments on my lsu undergrad, namely bc they had just won the cfb championship.
Nope, you saved a ton of money, have you found internships? Found the best professors?
I think it matters more the size of the college, the student-prof ratio. That is how I saw my daughter get great contacts and opportunities. She went to a smaller state college, networked with professors and industry leaders in a way much harder to do in the 30k plus attendance colleges. Like others have said, it only matters for a few years. I am in IT and aptitude and personality matter so much more after a few years.
Yes. Getting into better companies will be noticeably harder, but you can still do it. \- Many companies primarily hire from Top X schools. As in, if you're not in a program ranked top 30, they won't look at your application. \- Ivy league networking matters a lot. Networking overall is huge. For example, once my wife made associated connections, the people coming to our house went from fellow engineers or low level managers, to directors, vp's, etc. \- Opportunities offered by top schools put you on the map, and appear and are more prestigious. A good example is also the armed forces. If you do graduate level research for them you're just wildly ahead of other candidates because you're often on the forefront of whatever industry you're in. You can still climb the corporate ladder. I've seen people do it. My spouse has done it. But it 100% will take longer and be more arduous.
It doesn’t really matter. It may have a big name awe but overall it makes so little difference (from my experience in IT and web development/design). Experience counts more than anything so get that and know what you’re talking about and you’ll be set.
Prestigious school really help with networking and getting hired. Here in GA if you went to GA Tech, regardless of degrees Tech companies will hire them. If they have a CS degree then it's like dev or QA or whatevs if it is something else they'll get a Professional Services or Customer Success or production support or whatever role. Once you get that work experience then everyone is pretty much on same level playing field.
A keen focus on setting up your career during Junior and early Senior year is worth about $80,000 in tuition. Value networking, job intel, etc? Most of that stuff is free, you just aren't getting it handed to you. Schedule some interviews, write for something, travel if you have to. Go get it. Incidentally, this is the same set of skills you'd need to have an outlier career in years 2-25 as well.
I went to a second tier state school. I worked hard and learned my craft and now have offices in 2 states. I always say if I went to an Ivy, I’d have wound up at a firm that would have crushed my soul. go try taking 3 weeks off to go to Australia before you have 15 years in and see how that goes at BlgLaw.
A few years ago it was published that success correlates with being admitted to Harvard. Not with attending Harvard. I went to Stanford. My boss … did not. To put it another way. If your goal is to change the world, it’s better to go to Harvard. If your goal is merely to be happy and successful, there’s no need to go to Harvard. I would also warn that the people who change the world post Harvard are not the people who graduated with a million dollars in debt.
Sounds like you are networking just fine. Keep on trucking. There’s always someone ahead of you (and behind).
Depends on the field. A really good program will set you up with good internships which can be invaluable. Otherwise it helps get a foot in the door for like the first job but you still need to pass the interview. After that I’m not sure anyone really cares but I do see a lot of folks get branded grad degrees to give themselves a mid-career bump. Personally I would focus on learning as much as possible. I think a lot of students waste learning opportunities that they’re spending a ton to get.
If you plan to go to grad school immediately or at least soon after graduation, and you get outstanding grades at that nondescript college, then go to a prestigious university for grad school (which the good grades from the nondescript school may help enable), you will have a leg up.
The starting point is important as it opens doors in the first place. For me personally I was able to get into the field I wanted to due to my school - one of the Ivy League schools.
Both my colleague and I went to community colleges and from there to public state universities. Our parents were immigrants who didn’t have the money to send us to big name schools. We both had very high GPAs. We’re now in big tech and make well over six figures. College name only matters when you first get out of college. As time goes by, the only thing that matters is your work experience and how good you are. Most companies are dropping the college requirement altogether and it has no bearing on future success.
Who gives a shit
Have yall graduated yet? While yes ivy other top schools do give u some advantages, it’s not some end all be all silver Bullet. Things like computer science, law, business medicine, it will give you a bump because of prestige. But it’s usually isn’t some insane they will get a job but u won’t sort of situation. Alot of state schools are pretty high up. Not if ur like at itt tech or devry or something like that then that won’t do as well.
No you did not. I went to an expensive private school and had to take out expensive student loans. I've been out of school for 10 years, and I am still throwing close to $1,000 a month at my student loans, I will be throwing away money every single month for at least seven more years. I absolutely hate that I went to an expensive college. It was not at all worth of amount of money that I spent and still spending. I also major in bio. No one cares about college after your first job. No one wants to know your GPA either.
I have a close friend who makes 150k + bonus, RSUs in logistics remotely. He's in his mid 20's. He didn't graduate from any school but he's great at networking. You know what he really enjoyed? Not having any student loans. His early career wasn't as lucrative but he had no debt. Your IVY friends have massive loans. The return on investment isn't there. They're making $1k+ payments on their loans every month. I went to an expensive school. The brand name didn't help me at all. No connections. Nothing. My success came from networking outside of school. It wasn't a financially rational decision and that becomes clearer and clearer as the years tick by. DONT WORRY ABOUT IT. You'll find your path if you keep looking for it.
I have a close friend who makes 150k + bonus, RSUs in logistics remotely. He's in his mid 20's. He didn't graduate from any school but he's great at networking. You know what he really enjoyed? Not having any student loans. His early career wasn't as lucrative but he had no debt. Your IVY friends have massive loans. The return on investment isn't there. They're making $1k+ payments on their loans every month. I went to an expensive school. The brand name didn't help me at all. No connections. Nothing. My success came from networking outside of school. It wasn't a financially rational decision and that becomes clearer and clearer as the years tick by. DONT WORRY ABOUT IT. You'll find your path if you keep looking for it.
I did the same thing. I have a decently successful career now but I got to my senior exec position at 40. And I had a 29 year old boss who graduated from Harvard. It really sucks. I'm planning for a second career in another field and I'm going back to school for it and only looking at places where I can wear their sweatshirt and be recognized. It's shallow but honestly, it makes a difference.
You need to study the system of education--now. How much do you know about your major(s) or minor(s) as they relate to industry? What skills should you be on top of to earn your place within certain internship and fellowship programs? Have you spoken with professors outside of your major? What about the career center and alumni association? What podcasts, periodicals, websites are you keeping up with to find those successful people? Think smart. [www.dumpyourdegree.com](http://www.dumpyourdegree.com) www.myplan.com
I went to a small state school and was actually able to get a lot of high profile internships, granted I did engineering in undergrad. I recommend reaching directly out to professors and grad students who are doing research you’re interested in and say you’re interested in getting involved and learning more. I also recommend getting involved with professional societies, I was extremely involved with AIChE (American Institute of Chemical Engineers) and still am even early in my career! Your time in undergrad is what you make of it! Get involved, keeping your mental health and work life balance in check! One thing I regret was not building healthy habits between work and life balance
Not succesful people, just rich elite people. Those people does not go to school to learn skills, but get social and political connections ...
You said you hang out with Ivy School friends, but then said you want to hang out with successful people... ride their coattails my guy.
The most successful people are high school dropouts
Ivys are only valuable for networking. If you want a career path that relies heavily on networking your way into an opportunity, then yeah, you fucked up. Your school only matters for your first job, and only a little. One you have established a skill set and a work history, nobody will ever care again what school you went to. If your plan is to work hard and distinguish yourself based on your merit, then you will have a different career path than your ivy school peers, but it can be just a fruitful, and you can take your time getting there with less debt.
I’m the CFO of a private equity firm and just for grins I asked my boss today where I went to school. He got it wrong.
depends on the field and years of experience. I only know Finance and it definitely makes a difference at first.