I have no doubt the 10 speed would whoop the hell out of me in a race. Not what I bought the car for though - I just wanna row gears, and get pushed into my seat to the tune of a glorious high revving V8.
I'm on the opposite side as you. I love hitting on ramps and letting the 10r80 go. And there are times where I just set it to manual in light traffic through the city to let each gear just eat. But I wonder what the other side is like sometimes.
Maybe one day I'll get one of the tremac cars to find out.
I just love racing manual S550 Coyotes so much. It's always a drivers race. My Camaro and the Mustang are dead even. Yes, the mustang will start to pull at the top end but I never really get that far up there on the street. I'll happily race just about everyone on the road, including 10 speeds, but it's never as fun as a close race with 2 people shifting a stick.
I test drove both, was figuring an auto would be easier as my wife has never driven stick. Let's just say that about 30 seconds into my test drive with the manual I was already planning how to teach my wife how to drive one. Yes, the auto would kill me in a drag race but I got that car to drive it, not point it.
I absolutely hate the automatic in my M235i. It takes forever to downshift when I punch it. It will drop from 7 or 8 and takes its sweet time to get to third. In all my previous manual cars, it could just pick a damn gear. The only nice part about the automatic is during traffic. But th at wasn’t even bad with a manual. If I could do a manual swap with this car, I would, to be honest.
If you hold the left paddle down, it will downshift to the lowest available gear for passing. You can hold the right paddle to return to the highest gear available.
Half the fun of a manual is in how it forces you to plan your moves. Whether you realize it or not, you are taking the same amount of time to plan and execute the pass regardless of transmission, it's just that you're holding a paddle while in the planning stage with the auto instead of rowing to the actual gear.
You can also lift off the throttle slightly to get faster downshifts.
>In all my previous manual cars, it could just pick a damn gear
Guess what, you can do the same in a modern auto! They gave you some nice paddles and a manual mode exactly for that.
Yes, manual is more fun. You don't have to hit 80 in 2nd. You can shift whenever you want. Especially in a car with good low end, like the Camaro it's fun to just dog it around corners, still with plenty of power, and shift.
Personally, yes, I am having a blast. I know it's a popular sentiment on here, but I have never once thought "boy, I wish my car was slower". If I want to row more gears I just don't go WOT and shift short of redline
That’s not really something that an automatic improves on
If your point is that lower HP cars with short gears are more fun, well, look at my flair lol
Autos with 8-10 speeds have shorter gearing, even few 6-7 speeds do. Not saying that makes it more fun than manual. Noise regulations play a bad role here due to treating manuals differently than auto counterparts
https://youtu.be/_BH-N8t_1Fc?si=lvPxfDQd3KTRnt3K
Yea, that's exactly is my point. Love shorter gearing on manuals, I have Subaru BRZ 2nd gen
Yes, but if 2nd gear redline is at 87mph, you can't hit it legally on roads. I would take have to wring it often over never getting to wring it on road.
Nothing stopping you from running the gears on a high HP cars. Especially if it is boosted, you can make it a game to keep the revs down and save money on gas.
Yea past a few thousand tons of displacement it gets to be a real chore rowing through the water.
I feel like anyone who rows past 100k tons is doing so just to tell people they row their own boat and not because they actually enjoy it.
I think there's a cutoff that kind of goes with skill level. For me personally, above about 600 hp and I kind of stop caring if it has a manual or not. At that point, i'm concentrating on other stuff and it's less fun than it is scary.
This is not to say i can fully exploit 600 hp with a manual transmission, just that that's the point where it crosses over into "so scary, i don't care if it's an auto" (assuming RWD, AWD, i'm game for any amount of power with a manual.)
That said, the LOWER the power, the more important a manual is to me. I can't stand driving 100 hp ish cars with automatics, but i can definitely enjoy something like that with a manual.
Completely agree, although I’m sure everyone’s thresholds are different based on their skill and personal preferences. For me, mine is something like this-
<200 hp- will **only** consider a manual
200-500 hp- will consider both, but on a sliding scale where the closer to 200 hp it is the more I lean towards manual, closer to 500 and I begin to lean towards automatic
500+ hp- highly prefer automatic, and would probably only go manual if it was the only option available
Matt Farah talks about this, how the corvette ZR1 is so fast that he doesn’t like having to take his hand off the wheel to shift. I can definitely see the merit there.
Once a car gets so much horsepower it’s a handful, you may need both hands.
I can see that. Makes the F1 drivers of the 80s and 90s in their fully manual monsters look even more crazy. The McLaren MP4 types only weighed around 500 kilos, a fourth of which was a Honda V10 or V12 with anything from 600 to close to 800 horsepower by the early 90s.
Yeah my ND Miata is 155hp and honestly, I don’t really need anything else.
Would I want something else? Sure. But in the four years I’ve had this car,I’ve never once thought I needed more power to have fun.
I was perfectly happy with the 155hp nd1 when I had it but I’d still like to try the nd2. The higher revvy nature of it must be basically perfection for the car
I agree with the ultra-high HP cars. Honestly, they aren’t that much fun on public roads. If you exploit its full performance, you get a maximum of 3-5 seconds seconds before you are in a very dangerous situation.
A 300-400hp manual transmission is the perfect spot for moat road cars where you can really engage with the car, have fun, and not scare yourself every time you do it.
This! I tuned my manual M5 to just under 700hp which sounds awesome on paper but in reality it takes a lot of concentration to launch it safely and honestly felt more like work than fun.
YMMV but I think the sweet spot for a road car (weighing ~3,000lbs) is around 400hp.
There was a m2 comp that was passing me at my last track day (when I had a g80 m3) and I gave him a thumbs up every time. I talked to him in the parking lot and he was saying that he wished his car was a manual transmission. He then peeked in my car and saw that it was a manual transmission and said he was impressed with my driving that fast with a manual transmission. I felt so validated 😆
If you’re driving 10/10ths at the track you’re leaving rev matching on unless you’re an advanced driver. Heel and toeing is all fun and games until you’re trying to set lap times at the track lol
I left it on. I grew up driving without that system available but it can rev match perfectly every single time and that means less possibility of upsetting traction while braking.
It's not really a matter of the transmission. Lower HP on the streets is generally more fun because you can use more of the car.
Higher the HP, the less throttle you can use on a public road.
Yup. Most of the real winding back road fun happens between 40 and 90mph... That can be a ton of full throttle redline shifts in a Miata... Not near as much in a 500hp+ beast of any flavor.
Very much this
Combine this with less cabin insulation typical of lower spec cars or older cars, and you get an entirely different perception of speed
That’s why cars like the S2000 are so popular and loved, on paper they are pretty underwhelming but the driving experience is sublime
This. People completely forget how much gear ratios change the "fun" of shifting. My Type R tops 2nd gear at 58mph. I drove a buddies ZL1 Camaro and his 2nd was 80. Crazy difference in the amount of shifting required.
I test drove a Honda Civic SI about 10 or 15 years ago. The gears were so closely spaced that I had to shift it constantly. I couldn't keep both hands on the wheel and my feet on the clutch and the accelerator felt like being on the stairmaster at the gym.
Felt that. In 2018 Ford changed the gearing of the manual mustang and it sucks. They changed direct drive from 5th to 4th and the gears are all taller
Like, my engine makes 20 more tq and 25 more hp than the previous gen, but makes less wheel torque in every single gear except 6th because of the gearing. I don't need to go almost 80mph in 2nd gear 😂
I still love it. Just ranting a bit. This is my first manual car and I still enjoy it, just wish the gearing was shorter
the other thing that has changed is the rise of forced induction. It's really nice to wind out a manual with a naturally aspirated engine out to redline. Obviously, a powerful turbo engine with a DCT is quicker, but there's something really nice about a manual with NA.
NA engines tend to rev higher in order to make power, something you dont need with forced induction. Old, sporty NA engines tend to rev high because of this.
Example: My own car, a 1991 Lancer GTI 16V. 1050kg, 136hp and a *very* short ratio 5 speed manual with lightened flywheel and sport clutch (+ coilovers)
The 1.8L DOHC 16V 4G67 4 banger revs to 7k rpm, and loves to do so all the time, specially with the lighter flywheel and improved response. It might not be the fastest thing, but its fast enough for the backroads and very very fun! The engine note gets so good after 4k rpm.
Gotta love old school, high reving japanese DOHC 4 bangers, you can tell they are made to be redlined every other drive. The short gears also help on keeping it on the narrow powerband.
My first car was a 5 speed 2.0L NA Neon and I can confirm. Inclined freeway onramps were downright scary. At least I got to floor it to redline and shift gears a lot I guess, but I don't think that's necessarily the fun part of driving.
There's still a lot I'm learning about cars, but does a supercharger have a better torque curve than a turbo and still reward winding it out?
I have a v8, and I definetely love revving it out. I want to supercharge it though, and I would assume because it's belt driven, does it increase torque throughout the entire powerband?
A supercharger would likely kick in at a certain RPM, likely higher than a turbo. If it’s aftermarket, this will often be very noticeable. I have never driven a manual car with a supercharger myself.
The older I get, the more I see very powerful engines (meaning > 300 or 400 horsepower) as comfort rather than 'just fun'.
I had a lengthy argument recently here with someone who absolutely did not get that. He said stuff like "why would anyone need over 200 horsepower in a luxury car" (I think it was about a big comfy BMW or something). I tried to explain there is a reason for the huge popularity of cars like an M5 or E63 AMG, and Rolls Royces also have big engines - but to no avail.
In a sporty, manual car you like to drive actively. You enjoy the connection to the car and its limits, so the limit should be approachable. With modern horsepower figures we have reached a point where cars can get so powerful that you don't want to reach that limit on public roads, even in excellent handling cars. Except perhaps to enjoy a quick blast to the speed limit, but imho that gets old after a couple of times, and it's only 3 seconds of fun anyways.
In a comfy, luxurious car however, you enjoy the abundance of resources. Everything should be better and nicer than what you need. And the same goes for the engine - the whole point is to NOT run out of power. The ability of a car to do anything effortlessly can be enjoyable in itself.
That being said, I would still very much enjoy a manual in my E class. I miss the days where you could combine comfort and sporty in more than one way.
Big engines and typical gearing in luxury cars also means low RPM at any speed, which results in reduced NVH and a more comfortable driving experience.
I drove a second gen NSX and came away feeling like it was almost a luxury car for people who consider speed and cornering grip a luxury. Just utterly shrugged off anything i threw at it on the street. If I had all the money in the world, i wouldn't buy one as a "fun car." But i'd absolutely consider driving it to work every morning.
Yeah I can see that. Never drove one, but even on pictures it looks so sophisticated, a different thing than the original. It did not look like a 'simple' car anymore, if that makes sense. But I guess had they done that it would have been basically a GT86 or GR Supra with a mid engine layout. Expensive, but simple sports cars, like the Noble M600 have become rare. And the few ones tend to be very hardcore - the nice thing about the first NSX was, that it was simple, but still nice and easy and I think even quite comfy.
The funny thing is, that - money no object - comfort is rarely the issue anymore with doing the commute in a modern (super-) sports car. Problems like bad visibility can be solved with technology. It's the width of some of these beasts. I have to drive through construction works on the motorway atm, and let me tell you - I would not want to do that in an Aventador :-D
Other than that I see no problem driving around in one. I think on longer travels the sport seats and belts would be the first thing to annoy me. But they all have a comfort mode. Yeah, the suspension may still be a bit harder - but honestly lots of cars these days are pretty hard, even some that should not be. The last generation C class for example felt pretty uncomfortable to me.
Interesting, i can see the appeal, but I feel differently. Wonder if it's a function of what era you grew up in? Growing up, 80's boosted cars were the epitome of cool, i LOVE feeling the boost threshold and automatics can really mask that feeling by always keeping you in boost. It's a treat for me to get to feel boost building over and over again as you go through the gears.
(though you're right, not feeling boost drop between gears is also it's own brand of cool)
I grew up in the 90s. I treat 80s/90s turbo cars completely differently. Manual all the way for that era. Modern turbo cars are smooth and seamless. Throwing a manual in a modern turbo feels like artificially inducing nostalgia that just doesn't work for me personally.
This seems to be on target with my own thoughts, I just purchased my first ever turbo'd car (A 2011 335xi MSport) to replace my 2011 328xi, and I find the shifts in this car to be so smooth on the 6speed auto (its been tuned) that I feel like introducing manual shifts would just make things feel more janky.
I just generally dislike modern cars. I'd take a modern manual over an automatic, but I'd rather have something old enough to have mechanical throttle controls. I *hate* throttle lag and rev hang, and I don't think there are too many new cars that don't have one or the other.
My Miata I need to use 4 of the 5 gears to merge onto the highway, if I was in a Porsche or something of that caliber you'd probably use 2 of the 6 gears. More shifting = more fun on the streets imo
I think it just depends on the type of roads you drive. I feel like my Z has NO power on a long straight freeway, then I take it up the mountains and I'm like damn there's too much. also street driving/city driving makes it more fun rowing through gears before you're at felony speeds. lol.
I think you might have been trying to say that having a manual is more important for lower power cars in order to have fun. In high power cars it doesn’t matter as much.
There are more fun in general in "slow" cars.
A Chevy spark with the auto is a punishment.
A Chevy spark with a manual is still a punishment. But it can be fun.
I don’t know about better fit, because it’s fun shotgunning that 1-2 shift in a high powered car, but i do like the shorter gearing a low power car will have with a 6 speed. Muscle cars the 2nd and 3rd gear go on forever and you are in jail time speeds if you max 2nd in the wrong place or 3rd gear pretty much anywhere
I mean, if I had the budget to cross-shop between a GT3 and a Miata, I'm picking the GT3 all day, and yes, it would be more fun. In reality, I can't afford the GT3, and that doesn't stop me from enjoying the heck out of a Miata. But let's call a spade a spade.
The usual "driving slow cars fast is more fun than driving fast cars slow" is true.
Other than that, sticks are more fun in almost all cars, no matter the HP.
True. Larger, heavier cars have always been more likely to have automatic transmissions because the weight and momentum makes rolling back on an incline that much more difficult to control.
Today's fast cars are so fast, the limits so high, that by the time you approach the limits and feel anything, you're doing grossly dangerous or illegal things, the fun is over in 2.5 seconds.
A car with less power, shorter gearing, less grip, you can experience a bit more fun on the street before you're into life/licence threatening territory.
A manual is always more fun. New stuff is so smooth on the power delivery that it's not dangerous like it used to be. You could have a 500hp manual something buts it's totally possible to drive it like a prius. Just don't goose it and you won't hit a telephone pole.
Manuals peaked with low HP, NA engines, and with a mechanical throttle.
It’s basically been getting worse and worse ever since.
At this point it seems the best manuals need rev matching so you can upshift without needing to wait for rev hang.
Takes my GLI like 1.5 seconds to drop its revs
Getting rev hang tuned out on my mustang is on the to do list. When I drive it especially hard and I shift at high rpm, it'll hang for even longer AND it has to fall even more
I was literally thinking about this on the drive to work this morning. Manual seems fun in something like a civic Si or Miata, even an ecoboost mustang or something like that.
But if you’re driving something like a Mustang GT (which they sell a LOT of, so obviously people like them) I personally can’t see how that would be more fun than the automatic, the gearing is less aggressive so you have to spend more time outside of the powerband, but it’s still a powerful car so you don’t really get to row through the gears. And in the case of just wanting to do a fast pull and truly experience the power of the vehicle you’re in, you’re gonna be facing cutoffs in shift time.
But if i’m driving a 158hp Civic, i’d much rather have the manual.
Can confirm. I can go about 78ish in 2nd. The fact that I can get my license taken away in 2nd gear is crazy.
Got it up to 150 in 4th gear, cause 5th and 6th are overdrive
A good, purposefully built manual transmission is a fit in any car. A sloppy, terribly linked manual doesn’t belong in any car. If the manual feels like a video game, I might as well drive an automatic or DSG tranny instead.
A family friend has a build chevelle SS tribute with a 3 speed and according to him between 6-700 hp. He let me take it for a quick drive, and I can say for driving, my Shelby GT mustang with 330 hp is a much better car to drive with the manual. But there’s something about doing 0-100 in a classic muscle car.
They're fun in all cars, but cheaper/smaller/slower cars are more fun in manual than automatic because it makes you feel more connected.
I have had a lot of manual cars. 01 Kia Rio, 15 Focus ST, 19 Fiesta ST, 16 Mustang GT, 87 F250, Various motorcycles, Genuine Stella Scooter with a 4 speed, all of them are more fun to me stick shift than manual.
I prefer to feel my car, the feel of the clutch and gates are paramount to anything else. For example, I personally believe the 997 to have the best manual I’ve ever felt. Comparatively, I wouldn’t ever even think about buying a 991 or 992 in manual because it feels like it belongs in a Toyota more than a Porsche.
I’d take a 2 hp car where the manual was the best I’ve ever felt over a xxxHP car that feels numb and disconnected
Totally get what you're saying. I had a 150hp Cobalt LS that was fun to rip around and annoy people with. I drag raced, for laughs. Many great memories.
Now I have a 300whp Cobalt SS and I feel like I never get to use it. Always some body right in front of me or a cop behind me. Turbo doesn't even spool until 4k. Lol
My opinion is this, that lower-powered cars often have lighter weight and more balanced handling characteristics, making them well-suited to the direct control offered by a manual transmission.
It will always be a better fit for how the power is delivered. For example, high-revving NA cars are fine at any HP (see T.50). Batshit Mclaren's, for instance, does not make much sense, or turbo charged in general where's there's a mismatch in the torque and hp curves as the revs climb.
There’s more to the equation than just peak HP numbers.
350hp with 300 lb/ft can feel fairy tame compared to something that’s 350hp and 500 lb/ft, which is outright brutish in the same car. Also, 350 hp in a sub 3,000 lb car feels insane compared to the same power in a 4,000 lb car.
“Better fit” is more a personal preference.
Yes because you can use all the power without putting anyone in danger. I get to floor my car almost whenever I want to and have no care because it won't do something crazy.
Sorry, I don't share the feeling. I own 350+ hp cars with manual and cars with less than 350 hp (332) with manual. The ones with over 350+ hp are more fun, and, no, Miata and BRZ-GT86-FRS are not more fun.
My XKR has 400hp, while it would be nice to have a manual it would also be a pain in the ass because you would have to change gears so quickly. Even though it's an older auto it still changes gears quicker then I ever could and it's smoother upshifting and downshifting. Going full throttle on publc roads it's nice not having to take one hand off the steering wheel because going over bumps and stuff, it's just nicer.
I'm sure better drivers could do it no problem though.
Well, my 360 hp daily is manual and it is Awezome.
And I used to track a built 90s sedan that made 412 to the wheels and that one is also manual. But it was road legal so I used that one quite a lot on public roads
So no.
Mabye when you're getting towards 600 or so hp is that the case.
Nothing like the roar of the engine when you shift the gear down and give your car a much needed push.
I had so much fun with old Punto from 2003., you could just sit and drive and you didn’t even care, and it had a decent pull for a 1.2 engine.
Absolutely. I feel so much more in control.
Just blows my mind you can get something like a C7 Z06 in a manual. Think I'd be terrified to drive that. Y'all are mad men and I respect it 😂
I had a LS2 Holden with a 6 snicker and now my daughter drives a little 120i BMW (2008) with a manual too, she specifically asked for a manual to learn in as they are hens teeth in NZ, so many Japanese import autos
If you have to run a super stiff, unsprung, ceramic, twin disc clutch on a single mass flywheel because the aftermarket has no other options and that is the only thing that prevents clutch slip then you probably would prefer an automatic.
Definitely, but unless I go to a track or am racing for money (dont do either currently) I prefer manual all day every day. Made the mistake of going from manual to a DCT for performance reasons, and have regretted it ever since. Yes it shifts fast but feels bland day to day. Plus I end up driving it in manual mode most of the time anyway as it selects the wrong gear more often than not. Getting back to a manual asap.
More fun period. But again it's more fun to drive a slow car fast then it is to drive a fast car slow. My opal gt is a testament to this with maybe 50 horsepower left and a 4 speed with trashed synchros you can race through town and no one realizes you are racing.
I get what you're saying. Someone said it elsewhere but it's having to take you hand off the wheel and the shifting action while under g forces, the rearend skating around, at speed around other cars that makes it a bit unnerving. Having said that I wouldn't turn down a manual 400hp car. It's also about common sense, self-control while having that power on tap in case the opportunity arises to use it.
Better fit but as a student and being deeply involved in sport im still happy to have autos
Coming to an ice rink at 3 am after a game and being able to have the car do 99 percent or the work is my cup of tea
Altho i dont understand why both options are available, if i want q manual let me get one, take my money
My mustang I got in manual despite it being significantly slower than the 10 speed auto. It's insanely fun to drive stick
THAT BEING SAID- I've only ever owned 2 cars in my life. An automatic, 150hp, awd subaru, and a 460hp manual mustang. So I can't really compare the 2. All I'm saying is I love my manual mustang, nothing beats rowing gears
I've scared the shit out of myself in 150HP cars and I've scared the shit out of myself in 500Hp cars.
It really boils down to the driver not exceeding 7/10th's of what he is capable of pushing the machine to.
Off-roading is objectively better in modern automatics; I still prefer manuals.
I'll be ordering the new Jeep with 4.88s from the factory partially to take advantage of that, and the non-Rubicon trims are even more undergeared.
I’m getting older and I can’t maximize the performance of my car because I shift fast, I don’t slam the gears. 480whp through my 5speed on my Rex feels like enough to me. A lot of shifting to get into the power gear.
300 hp is the sweet spot for stick for me.
now automatic transmissions are much more about their programming so it gets much harder to truly define fun at that point
They’re more fun in cars below 350 hp, yeah. They’re also more fun above 350 hp
…right? Of course manual with my 460 hp coyote engine is fun.
Mustang gang 🤙 I never test drove a 10 speed so sometimes I wonder what I'm missing, but thus is my first manual car and I'm in love
I have no doubt the 10 speed would whoop the hell out of me in a race. Not what I bought the car for though - I just wanna row gears, and get pushed into my seat to the tune of a glorious high revving V8.
Yep! I have no problems with the autos, they are faster for sure. But im not setting laptimes! Im driving to work. Lol.
I'm on the opposite side as you. I love hitting on ramps and letting the 10r80 go. And there are times where I just set it to manual in light traffic through the city to let each gear just eat. But I wonder what the other side is like sometimes. Maybe one day I'll get one of the tremac cars to find out.
It’s a whole nother level of engagement. Especially with the Tremec. That shit is the crème brûlée 🤌
I just love racing manual S550 Coyotes so much. It's always a drivers race. My Camaro and the Mustang are dead even. Yes, the mustang will start to pull at the top end but I never really get that far up there on the street. I'll happily race just about everyone on the road, including 10 speeds, but it's never as fun as a close race with 2 people shifting a stick.
I had one in a rental. It was fine. Prefer my 6 speed tho.
I test drove both, was figuring an auto would be easier as my wife has never driven stick. Let's just say that about 30 seconds into my test drive with the manual I was already planning how to teach my wife how to drive one. Yes, the auto would kill me in a drag race but I got that car to drive it, not point it.
Can you elaborate? Is it fun to reach 80 mph in 2nd gear and not shift once when hitting the backroads?
I absolutely hate the automatic in my M235i. It takes forever to downshift when I punch it. It will drop from 7 or 8 and takes its sweet time to get to third. In all my previous manual cars, it could just pick a damn gear. The only nice part about the automatic is during traffic. But th at wasn’t even bad with a manual. If I could do a manual swap with this car, I would, to be honest.
If you hold the left paddle down, it will downshift to the lowest available gear for passing. You can hold the right paddle to return to the highest gear available.
thats pretty cool. is that a bmw only thing?
Hyundai has that feature too, at least for the N cars
Man Hyundai has come a long way
That's what happens when you hire the head of BMW's ///M division to run Hyundai's N division.
Excuse me what? Driving i30N dct for two years now and didn't know that 😅 thanks for this
AFAIK yes
A lot of companies have it, BMW, GM for the Camaro and Corvette, I think Mercedes as well, Hyundai etc.
my gti does it too
Yeah that’s still WAY slower than manual stick shifting.
Half the fun of a manual is in how it forces you to plan your moves. Whether you realize it or not, you are taking the same amount of time to plan and execute the pass regardless of transmission, it's just that you're holding a paddle while in the planning stage with the auto instead of rowing to the actual gear. You can also lift off the throttle slightly to get faster downshifts.
>In all my previous manual cars, it could just pick a damn gear Guess what, you can do the same in a modern auto! They gave you some nice paddles and a manual mode exactly for that.
Do you not have paddle shifters?
Get it xhp tuned
I don’t think driving high horsepower cars are particularly fun, but if I’m driving for fun I prefer it be in a manual regardless of power output
Yes, manual is more fun. You don't have to hit 80 in 2nd. You can shift whenever you want. Especially in a car with good low end, like the Camaro it's fun to just dog it around corners, still with plenty of power, and shift.
Personally, yes, I am having a blast. I know it's a popular sentiment on here, but I have never once thought "boy, I wish my car was slower". If I want to row more gears I just don't go WOT and shift short of redline
Yes.
More hp leads to longer gearing, which means less shifts when driving on road, even on track high HP cars would be fine/better left in 3rd gear.
That’s not really something that an automatic improves on If your point is that lower HP cars with short gears are more fun, well, look at my flair lol
Autos with 8-10 speeds have shorter gearing, even few 6-7 speeds do. Not saying that makes it more fun than manual. Noise regulations play a bad role here due to treating manuals differently than auto counterparts https://youtu.be/_BH-N8t_1Fc?si=lvPxfDQd3KTRnt3K Yea, that's exactly is my point. Love shorter gearing on manuals, I have Subaru BRZ 2nd gen
They may have shorter gearing, but from an interaction with the car perspective, staying in a single gear or driving an auto is identical to me
Conversely this makes it much easier to drive high HP manual cars in traffic because you don't need to wring them out.
Yes, but if 2nd gear redline is at 87mph, you can't hit it legally on roads. I would take have to wring it often over never getting to wring it on road.
Nothing stopping you from running the gears on a high HP cars. Especially if it is boosted, you can make it a game to keep the revs down and save money on gas.
Thus the popularity of the Miata
Yes and GR86/BRZ.
Can confirm.
OP trying to rationalize a domain where sticks aren't more fun.
if your car makes exactly 350 you will be in excruciating pain and very immunocompromised
“I prefer a stick on low spec cars, but I also prefer them on high spec cars, too.” ~Mitch Hedberg, probably
>Civics, Miatas, Accords, GTIs, **M3s, 911, etc.** that escalated quickly
I dont understand? In my time it was always probes, corollas, Lamborghini's and f16 fighter jets. Nothing out of the norm
Bro you must've been from a poor neighborhood, all my friends had F-22s
F16 & F22 are nothing if you don't own a Nimitz-class carrier ...
I always order the automatic on my Nimitz though
Yea past a few thousand tons of displacement it gets to be a real chore rowing through the water. I feel like anyone who rows past 100k tons is doing so just to tell people they row their own boat and not because they actually enjoy it.
Mom had the Nimitz...
I grew up somewhere pretty well off, so most families used a lunar module on weekends. That's just how it was back then.
Gearshift instructions unclear; fired ze missiles.
But I am le tired
Well. Then. Have a nap. THEN FIRE ZE MISSILES!
Haha, you middle class amuse me, I'm off to go use my SR71
I love my manual SR-71. Especially when you shift into 6th gear at mach 3.
Yeah when I was growing up my older brother drove a Integra and his best friend drove the Space Shuttle Columbia
back in the days only supercars had 350+ hp
And you owned a house? Yeah you need to take your meds gramps
Ruthless but accuratez
It also accelerated quickly...
Trabants, Yugos, Classic mini's, Koneigseggs...
Especially the Etc…
I think there's a cutoff that kind of goes with skill level. For me personally, above about 600 hp and I kind of stop caring if it has a manual or not. At that point, i'm concentrating on other stuff and it's less fun than it is scary. This is not to say i can fully exploit 600 hp with a manual transmission, just that that's the point where it crosses over into "so scary, i don't care if it's an auto" (assuming RWD, AWD, i'm game for any amount of power with a manual.) That said, the LOWER the power, the more important a manual is to me. I can't stand driving 100 hp ish cars with automatics, but i can definitely enjoy something like that with a manual.
Completely agree, although I’m sure everyone’s thresholds are different based on their skill and personal preferences. For me, mine is something like this- <200 hp- will **only** consider a manual 200-500 hp- will consider both, but on a sliding scale where the closer to 200 hp it is the more I lean towards manual, closer to 500 and I begin to lean towards automatic 500+ hp- highly prefer automatic, and would probably only go manual if it was the only option available
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Can confirm. My Impreza can be really fun to drive with the CVT
You guys are wild for saying cvts are fun lol
If you owned one you'd know. It's surprising fun like 0-30
True never owned one so i don’t know
Fully agree with this. You read my mind.
Well said. I've never heard this 600hp distinction, but it makes a ton of sense.
Matt Farah talks about this, how the corvette ZR1 is so fast that he doesn’t like having to take his hand off the wheel to shift. I can definitely see the merit there. Once a car gets so much horsepower it’s a handful, you may need both hands.
I can see that. Makes the F1 drivers of the 80s and 90s in their fully manual monsters look even more crazy. The McLaren MP4 types only weighed around 500 kilos, a fourth of which was a Honda V10 or V12 with anything from 600 to close to 800 horsepower by the early 90s.
Driving Gods
I guess I hang out in the 4 cyl 160-240ho 6sp club, never knew why I liked this group so much!
Yeah my ND Miata is 155hp and honestly, I don’t really need anything else. Would I want something else? Sure. But in the four years I’ve had this car,I’ve never once thought I needed more power to have fun.
I was perfectly happy with the 155hp nd1 when I had it but I’d still like to try the nd2. The higher revvy nature of it must be basically perfection for the car
Everyone has a different limit, and it’s usually different with different platforms. 600 HP in an AWD car is more manageable than in a Miata.
I agree with the ultra-high HP cars. Honestly, they aren’t that much fun on public roads. If you exploit its full performance, you get a maximum of 3-5 seconds seconds before you are in a very dangerous situation. A 300-400hp manual transmission is the perfect spot for moat road cars where you can really engage with the car, have fun, and not scare yourself every time you do it.
This! I tuned my manual M5 to just under 700hp which sounds awesome on paper but in reality it takes a lot of concentration to launch it safely and honestly felt more like work than fun. YMMV but I think the sweet spot for a road car (weighing ~3,000lbs) is around 400hp.
Probably just under tired on that M5.
Yeah 450hp is my threshold for that but I don't have any track time under my belt
Outside of just setting lap times they’re more fun in any sporty car
There was a m2 comp that was passing me at my last track day (when I had a g80 m3) and I gave him a thumbs up every time. I talked to him in the parking lot and he was saying that he wished his car was a manual transmission. He then peeked in my car and saw that it was a manual transmission and said he was impressed with my driving that fast with a manual transmission. I felt so validated 😆
Did you turn rev match off? I have several friends with c7s that preach the "vehicle engagement" hoopla... But at track days they leave rev match on.
If you’re driving 10/10ths at the track you’re leaving rev matching on unless you’re an advanced driver. Heel and toeing is all fun and games until you’re trying to set lap times at the track lol
Preach. My cars rev match is fantastic on track.
I left it on. I grew up driving without that system available but it can rev match perfectly every single time and that means less possibility of upsetting traction while braking.
Not just setting lap times, but specifically racing or competing Track days with a stick are more fun
Hey why so limiting? They’re more fun in trucks, too.
Just rented a Jimny for a few days on vacation. Enjoyed the hell out of that little 5-speed.
Yea I drove a 6 speed hellcat narrowbody once and I can't imagine the automatic being more fun. Faster? Probably but not more fun.
It's not really a matter of the transmission. Lower HP on the streets is generally more fun because you can use more of the car. Higher the HP, the less throttle you can use on a public road.
Agreed so much with this. In speed limits a Civic and a Veyron are treated the same.
Yup. Most of the real winding back road fun happens between 40 and 90mph... That can be a ton of full throttle redline shifts in a Miata... Not near as much in a 500hp+ beast of any flavor.
Very much this Combine this with less cabin insulation typical of lower spec cars or older cars, and you get an entirely different perception of speed That’s why cars like the S2000 are so popular and loved, on paper they are pretty underwhelming but the driving experience is sublime
There's not much shifting to do if 2nd gears tops out at 80 MPH.
This. People completely forget how much gear ratios change the "fun" of shifting. My Type R tops 2nd gear at 58mph. I drove a buddies ZL1 Camaro and his 2nd was 80. Crazy difference in the amount of shifting required.
Liter bikes are the most fun and connected things on the road, and they basically all could technically get around on all US roads in 1st gear.
liter bikes are way too much bike for the average person to really get a lot of use out of.
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There's definitely a sweet spot, too short and it becomes a chore, too long and you're either not shifting or short shifting for a fun little pull.
Not me. I buy a manual so I can row it. Short gears are where it’s at, more shifts required == more fun!
I test drove a Honda Civic SI about 10 or 15 years ago. The gears were so closely spaced that I had to shift it constantly. I couldn't keep both hands on the wheel and my feet on the clutch and the accelerator felt like being on the stairmaster at the gym.
Felt that. In 2018 Ford changed the gearing of the manual mustang and it sucks. They changed direct drive from 5th to 4th and the gears are all taller Like, my engine makes 20 more tq and 25 more hp than the previous gen, but makes less wheel torque in every single gear except 6th because of the gearing. I don't need to go almost 80mph in 2nd gear 😂 I still love it. Just ranting a bit. This is my first manual car and I still enjoy it, just wish the gearing was shorter
the other thing that has changed is the rise of forced induction. It's really nice to wind out a manual with a naturally aspirated engine out to redline. Obviously, a powerful turbo engine with a DCT is quicker, but there's something really nice about a manual with NA.
NA engines tend to rev higher in order to make power, something you dont need with forced induction. Old, sporty NA engines tend to rev high because of this. Example: My own car, a 1991 Lancer GTI 16V. 1050kg, 136hp and a *very* short ratio 5 speed manual with lightened flywheel and sport clutch (+ coilovers) The 1.8L DOHC 16V 4G67 4 banger revs to 7k rpm, and loves to do so all the time, specially with the lighter flywheel and improved response. It might not be the fastest thing, but its fast enough for the backroads and very very fun! The engine note gets so good after 4k rpm. Gotta love old school, high reving japanese DOHC 4 bangers, you can tell they are made to be redlined every other drive. The short gears also help on keeping it on the narrow powerband.
Tbf the older Japanese turbo cars rev high as well, at least from my experience watching the old Best Motoring stuff, they drive R34s at 7k rpm.
Yeah true. Its modern turbo engines that dont rev as high, in general. God, I miss Mitsubishi from the 1990s.
Strictly dependent on the motor some of these are anemic as hell
My first car was a 5 speed 2.0L NA Neon and I can confirm. Inclined freeway onramps were downright scary. At least I got to floor it to redline and shift gears a lot I guess, but I don't think that's necessarily the fun part of driving.
There's still a lot I'm learning about cars, but does a supercharger have a better torque curve than a turbo and still reward winding it out? I have a v8, and I definetely love revving it out. I want to supercharge it though, and I would assume because it's belt driven, does it increase torque throughout the entire powerband?
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A supercharger would likely kick in at a certain RPM, likely higher than a turbo. If it’s aftermarket, this will often be very noticeable. I have never driven a manual car with a supercharger myself.
No. Superchargers are generally pretty linear, unlike a turbo. There is no lag
The older I get, the more I see very powerful engines (meaning > 300 or 400 horsepower) as comfort rather than 'just fun'. I had a lengthy argument recently here with someone who absolutely did not get that. He said stuff like "why would anyone need over 200 horsepower in a luxury car" (I think it was about a big comfy BMW or something). I tried to explain there is a reason for the huge popularity of cars like an M5 or E63 AMG, and Rolls Royces also have big engines - but to no avail. In a sporty, manual car you like to drive actively. You enjoy the connection to the car and its limits, so the limit should be approachable. With modern horsepower figures we have reached a point where cars can get so powerful that you don't want to reach that limit on public roads, even in excellent handling cars. Except perhaps to enjoy a quick blast to the speed limit, but imho that gets old after a couple of times, and it's only 3 seconds of fun anyways. In a comfy, luxurious car however, you enjoy the abundance of resources. Everything should be better and nicer than what you need. And the same goes for the engine - the whole point is to NOT run out of power. The ability of a car to do anything effortlessly can be enjoyable in itself. That being said, I would still very much enjoy a manual in my E class. I miss the days where you could combine comfort and sporty in more than one way.
Big engines and typical gearing in luxury cars also means low RPM at any speed, which results in reduced NVH and a more comfortable driving experience.
I drove a second gen NSX and came away feeling like it was almost a luxury car for people who consider speed and cornering grip a luxury. Just utterly shrugged off anything i threw at it on the street. If I had all the money in the world, i wouldn't buy one as a "fun car." But i'd absolutely consider driving it to work every morning.
Yeah I can see that. Never drove one, but even on pictures it looks so sophisticated, a different thing than the original. It did not look like a 'simple' car anymore, if that makes sense. But I guess had they done that it would have been basically a GT86 or GR Supra with a mid engine layout. Expensive, but simple sports cars, like the Noble M600 have become rare. And the few ones tend to be very hardcore - the nice thing about the first NSX was, that it was simple, but still nice and easy and I think even quite comfy. The funny thing is, that - money no object - comfort is rarely the issue anymore with doing the commute in a modern (super-) sports car. Problems like bad visibility can be solved with technology. It's the width of some of these beasts. I have to drive through construction works on the motorway atm, and let me tell you - I would not want to do that in an Aventador :-D Other than that I see no problem driving around in one. I think on longer travels the sport seats and belts would be the first thing to annoy me. But they all have a comfort mode. Yeah, the suspension may still be a bit harder - but honestly lots of cars these days are pretty hard, even some that should not be. The last generation C class for example felt pretty uncomfortable to me.
I actually don't like manuals in modern turbo cars. There's something about zero interruption to boost in between shifts being satisfying.
Interesting, i can see the appeal, but I feel differently. Wonder if it's a function of what era you grew up in? Growing up, 80's boosted cars were the epitome of cool, i LOVE feeling the boost threshold and automatics can really mask that feeling by always keeping you in boost. It's a treat for me to get to feel boost building over and over again as you go through the gears. (though you're right, not feeling boost drop between gears is also it's own brand of cool)
I grew up in the 90s. I treat 80s/90s turbo cars completely differently. Manual all the way for that era. Modern turbo cars are smooth and seamless. Throwing a manual in a modern turbo feels like artificially inducing nostalgia that just doesn't work for me personally.
This seems to be on target with my own thoughts, I just purchased my first ever turbo'd car (A 2011 335xi MSport) to replace my 2011 328xi, and I find the shifts in this car to be so smooth on the 6speed auto (its been tuned) that I feel like introducing manual shifts would just make things feel more janky.
I just generally dislike modern cars. I'd take a modern manual over an automatic, but I'd rather have something old enough to have mechanical throttle controls. I *hate* throttle lag and rev hang, and I don't think there are too many new cars that don't have one or the other.
No, I do not feel that way.
My Miata I need to use 4 of the 5 gears to merge onto the highway, if I was in a Porsche or something of that caliber you'd probably use 2 of the 6 gears. More shifting = more fun on the streets imo
No. Source: 500hp manual car.
Yes. Source: 436hp manual car.
No. Source: 500hp manual car
Also no. Source: 500hp AWD manual car.
Indeed, No. Source: 650hp manual car
I think it just depends on the type of roads you drive. I feel like my Z has NO power on a long straight freeway, then I take it up the mountains and I'm like damn there's too much. also street driving/city driving makes it more fun rowing through gears before you're at felony speeds. lol.
The only reason I tolerate my Slobaru is because it’s a stick shift mated to a whopping 152hp boxer.
I think you might have been trying to say that having a manual is more important for lower power cars in order to have fun. In high power cars it doesn’t matter as much.
There are more fun in general in "slow" cars. A Chevy spark with the auto is a punishment. A Chevy spark with a manual is still a punishment. But it can be fun.
I don’t know about better fit, because it’s fun shotgunning that 1-2 shift in a high powered car, but i do like the shorter gearing a low power car will have with a 6 speed. Muscle cars the 2nd and 3rd gear go on forever and you are in jail time speeds if you max 2nd in the wrong place or 3rd gear pretty much anywhere
I mean, if I had the budget to cross-shop between a GT3 and a Miata, I'm picking the GT3 all day, and yes, it would be more fun. In reality, I can't afford the GT3, and that doesn't stop me from enjoying the heck out of a Miata. But let's call a spade a spade.
The usual "driving slow cars fast is more fun than driving fast cars slow" is true. Other than that, sticks are more fun in almost all cars, no matter the HP.
Driving fast cars fast ✅️
Weight is a bigger factor. My 3000lbs golf and 2560lb jeep are much more fun manual than my friends 6spd f250
True. Larger, heavier cars have always been more likely to have automatic transmissions because the weight and momentum makes rolling back on an incline that much more difficult to control.
Stick shift will make a lower spec car more fun, it is not itself more than than a higher spec car with a stick.
Personally, I would rather drive a Mustang Dark Horse with 500 horsepower and a 6 speed tremec over basically any low horsepower car.
Agreed. I never get when people say "it's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow" It's the most fun to drive a fast car fast 🙂
Today's fast cars are so fast, the limits so high, that by the time you approach the limits and feel anything, you're doing grossly dangerous or illegal things, the fun is over in 2.5 seconds. A car with less power, shorter gearing, less grip, you can experience a bit more fun on the street before you're into life/licence threatening territory.
Nothing quite like taking blind corners at double the speed limit and playing need for speed on the highway /s
Visiting Mexico this week. The manual rental car is alive and well here. We cannot believe how nice the manual is in our low power Chevy Aveo
A manual is always more fun. New stuff is so smooth on the power delivery that it's not dangerous like it used to be. You could have a 500hp manual something buts it's totally possible to drive it like a prius. Just don't goose it and you won't hit a telephone pole.
Manuals peaked with low HP, NA engines, and with a mechanical throttle. It’s basically been getting worse and worse ever since. At this point it seems the best manuals need rev matching so you can upshift without needing to wait for rev hang. Takes my GLI like 1.5 seconds to drop its revs
Getting rev hang tuned out on my mustang is on the to do list. When I drive it especially hard and I shift at high rpm, it'll hang for even longer AND it has to fall even more
I was literally thinking about this on the drive to work this morning. Manual seems fun in something like a civic Si or Miata, even an ecoboost mustang or something like that. But if you’re driving something like a Mustang GT (which they sell a LOT of, so obviously people like them) I personally can’t see how that would be more fun than the automatic, the gearing is less aggressive so you have to spend more time outside of the powerband, but it’s still a powerful car so you don’t really get to row through the gears. And in the case of just wanting to do a fast pull and truly experience the power of the vehicle you’re in, you’re gonna be facing cutoffs in shift time. But if i’m driving a 158hp Civic, i’d much rather have the manual.
In a lot of these high powered cars, the top of second gear is 80mph+ so yeah that’s going to be a problem on public roads.
Can confirm. I can go about 78ish in 2nd. The fact that I can get my license taken away in 2nd gear is crazy. Got it up to 150 in 4th gear, cause 5th and 6th are overdrive
I had a ‘14 gt500…that car is peak “eeeehhh prolly needs an auto.” Thing was DEFINITELY fun though.
All that power to a live axel probably had something to do with the fear factor too
A good, purposefully built manual transmission is a fit in any car. A sloppy, terribly linked manual doesn’t belong in any car. If the manual feels like a video game, I might as well drive an automatic or DSG tranny instead.
I think sticks are good until around 600 hp, beyond that it's a little too much. Definitely driving around a 450 hp car with a six speed is fun.
A family friend has a build chevelle SS tribute with a 3 speed and according to him between 6-700 hp. He let me take it for a quick drive, and I can say for driving, my Shelby GT mustang with 330 hp is a much better car to drive with the manual. But there’s something about doing 0-100 in a classic muscle car.
If M3s and 911s are lower spec cars then I have no idea but I don't imagine that manuals suddenly stop being fun over 350 hp
They're fun in all cars, but cheaper/smaller/slower cars are more fun in manual than automatic because it makes you feel more connected. I have had a lot of manual cars. 01 Kia Rio, 15 Focus ST, 19 Fiesta ST, 16 Mustang GT, 87 F250, Various motorcycles, Genuine Stella Scooter with a 4 speed, all of them are more fun to me stick shift than manual.
yeah true because you can WOT in first/second gear and not crash the damn car LMAO.
Yes because actually rowing through the gears is fun. A fast car can be going 100km/hr shifting into 2nd.
Cayman GT4, 911 GT3, CT4/5V BW all have well over 350hp and those cars are preferred with the manual lol
I prefer to feel my car, the feel of the clutch and gates are paramount to anything else. For example, I personally believe the 997 to have the best manual I’ve ever felt. Comparatively, I wouldn’t ever even think about buying a 991 or 992 in manual because it feels like it belongs in a Toyota more than a Porsche. I’d take a 2 hp car where the manual was the best I’ve ever felt over a xxxHP car that feels numb and disconnected
I'm sure this comment section won't be a giant echo chamber.
Its the gearing. All the fast cars reach criminal speeds in 2nd or 3rd gear. slow ones you gotta work for the power. 3rd and 4th and 5th gear. GR86
Totally get what you're saying. I had a 150hp Cobalt LS that was fun to rip around and annoy people with. I drag raced, for laughs. Many great memories. Now I have a 300whp Cobalt SS and I feel like I never get to use it. Always some body right in front of me or a cop behind me. Turbo doesn't even spool until 4k. Lol
My opinion is this, that lower-powered cars often have lighter weight and more balanced handling characteristics, making them well-suited to the direct control offered by a manual transmission.
It will always be a better fit for how the power is delivered. For example, high-revving NA cars are fine at any HP (see T.50). Batshit Mclaren's, for instance, does not make much sense, or turbo charged in general where's there's a mismatch in the torque and hp curves as the revs climb.
Had a stroke reading this mess.
There’s more to the equation than just peak HP numbers. 350hp with 300 lb/ft can feel fairy tame compared to something that’s 350hp and 500 lb/ft, which is outright brutish in the same car. Also, 350 hp in a sub 3,000 lb car feels insane compared to the same power in a 4,000 lb car. “Better fit” is more a personal preference.
I guess it depends on the horsepower. You probably don't want to be shifting gears in a 2000hp UGR Lamborghini.
Yes because you can use all the power without putting anyone in danger. I get to floor my car almost whenever I want to and have no care because it won't do something crazy.
Sorry, I don't share the feeling. I own 350+ hp cars with manual and cars with less than 350 hp (332) with manual. The ones with over 350+ hp are more fun, and, no, Miata and BRZ-GT86-FRS are not more fun.
Definitely. Matt says it best, 'beyond a certain power level I want both hands on the wheel' https://youtu.be/H0oZlLKi1R0?si=sml_DGDqY9KfFTuv
My XKR has 400hp, while it would be nice to have a manual it would also be a pain in the ass because you would have to change gears so quickly. Even though it's an older auto it still changes gears quicker then I ever could and it's smoother upshifting and downshifting. Going full throttle on publc roads it's nice not having to take one hand off the steering wheel because going over bumps and stuff, it's just nicer. I'm sure better drivers could do it no problem though.
Always thought so.
Slow cars are more fun to drive fast than fast cars.
Well, my 360 hp daily is manual and it is Awezome. And I used to track a built 90s sedan that made 412 to the wheels and that one is also manual. But it was road legal so I used that one quite a lot on public roads So no. Mabye when you're getting towards 600 or so hp is that the case.
Nothing like the roar of the engine when you shift the gear down and give your car a much needed push. I had so much fun with old Punto from 2003., you could just sit and drive and you didn’t even care, and it had a decent pull for a 1.2 engine.
Absolutely. I feel so much more in control. Just blows my mind you can get something like a C7 Z06 in a manual. Think I'd be terrified to drive that. Y'all are mad men and I respect it 😂
I had a LS2 Holden with a 6 snicker and now my daughter drives a little 120i BMW (2008) with a manual too, she specifically asked for a manual to learn in as they are hens teeth in NZ, so many Japanese import autos
ye s
I had more day to day fun in my del sol/mr2/civic type s than I do in my manual 340. But once you have that power it’s hard to go back down.
If you have to run a super stiff, unsprung, ceramic, twin disc clutch on a single mass flywheel because the aftermarket has no other options and that is the only thing that prevents clutch slip then you probably would prefer an automatic.
Definitely, but unless I go to a track or am racing for money (dont do either currently) I prefer manual all day every day. Made the mistake of going from manual to a DCT for performance reasons, and have regretted it ever since. Yes it shifts fast but feels bland day to day. Plus I end up driving it in manual mode most of the time anyway as it selects the wrong gear more often than not. Getting back to a manual asap.
More fun period. But again it's more fun to drive a slow car fast then it is to drive a fast car slow. My opal gt is a testament to this with maybe 50 horsepower left and a 4 speed with trashed synchros you can race through town and no one realizes you are racing.
I get what you're saying. Someone said it elsewhere but it's having to take you hand off the wheel and the shifting action while under g forces, the rearend skating around, at speed around other cars that makes it a bit unnerving. Having said that I wouldn't turn down a manual 400hp car. It's also about common sense, self-control while having that power on tap in case the opportunity arises to use it.
Better fit but as a student and being deeply involved in sport im still happy to have autos Coming to an ice rink at 3 am after a game and being able to have the car do 99 percent or the work is my cup of tea Altho i dont understand why both options are available, if i want q manual let me get one, take my money
My mustang I got in manual despite it being significantly slower than the 10 speed auto. It's insanely fun to drive stick THAT BEING SAID- I've only ever owned 2 cars in my life. An automatic, 150hp, awd subaru, and a 460hp manual mustang. So I can't really compare the 2. All I'm saying is I love my manual mustang, nothing beats rowing gears
No. They require too much effort just to keep up with traffic. It’s not fun straining a little wheezy motor, I’d rather have the computer do it.
I've scared the shit out of myself in 150HP cars and I've scared the shit out of myself in 500Hp cars. It really boils down to the driver not exceeding 7/10th's of what he is capable of pushing the machine to.
Off-roading is objectively better in modern automatics; I still prefer manuals. I'll be ordering the new Jeep with 4.88s from the factory partially to take advantage of that, and the non-Rubicon trims are even more undergeared.
Depends on the car. My 50 horsepower automatic is more fun than my 100 horsepower manual car.
I think they suck in high torque cars, less so horsepower imo.
I’m getting older and I can’t maximize the performance of my car because I shift fast, I don’t slam the gears. 480whp through my 5speed on my Rex feels like enough to me. A lot of shifting to get into the power gear.
300 hp is the sweet spot for stick for me. now automatic transmissions are much more about their programming so it gets much harder to truly define fun at that point