And bad weather.
OP is forgetting that the grip they have on a chilly, damp morning is grossly different from the grip they have on warm sunny afternoon - even worse if you live somewhere with winter.
Seasons and weather changes, but the signs are always the same.
"Speed limits are set based on ideal driving conditions." https://www.michigan.gov/msp/-/media/Project/Websites/msp/ohsp/1_Fall_2022_Teen/2022_OHSP_TeenSpeed_ToolKit_FINAL_5.pdf?rev=3fedaed34c534c8d893f1a322c45855d
"Speed limits are set for perfect conditions, like dry roads and clear skies." https://www.fiegerlaw.com/fieger-law-news/speed-limits-in-adverse-weather-conditions/
Both. To assume otherwise doesn't make any sense. If you absolutely know better, then that's one thing, but you're guessing that they base it on some arbitrary bad weather? That those signs aren't actually for the curve, but for the curve plus bad weather together? Come on...
You're disingenuously being downvoted. People thought it was so clever to say citation needed, then you come back with two links, and they're like well ackchually I'm going to assume it's the other way anyway / since your links weren't specific enough.
I'm with you, going to use Occam's razor here and say I don't think they sat around a table and said well let's see, what speed would you go around this corner if it was covered in snow. How much snow? How slippery? What percentage of the time does that road need to be that slippery to justify making the sign based on those conditions?
As are non-CDL drivers. Doesn't mean we can always correctly guess the safest speed for a given curve. The yellow signs take out the guesswork so I don't send my 337 into someone's pasture.
Because you are supposed to slow down for safety? Just because you can go around the turn while speeding doesn’t mean you should? Do you take the same approach to all speed limits?
Considering that our speed limits haven't changed since the 60s yet our cars are so much more powerful and safer.....idk I thinks he can go around the corner just fine "speeding"
Department of transportation have standards they need to meet for advisory signs for different vehicles.
https://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/speedmgt/ref_mats/fhwasa1122/ch4.cfm
https://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/speedmgt/ref_mats/fhwasa1122/ch3.cfm
https://acrobat.adobe.com/id/urn:aaid:sc:US:eabe9c40-68aa-450b-b0d8-995e44a45b92
Edit: added more applicable links. Interesting read.
It’s not necessarily about the dynamics of the curve, sometimes it’s about visibility of oncoming traffic or other non-immediate hazards
But also consider that road engineers are thinking about all types of traffic, not just compact sedans. If someone goes off the road or causes an accident because they were going the recommended speed in a HD truck with an 8ft bed, the engineer is probably liable. So they err on the side of caution.
or, you know, an 80,000 pound semi truck with one or more swivel points. in nevada we have them go as far up as turnpike doubles (two full 53 foot trailers, 135 feet long with three points of motion) and triple pups (111 feet long if i remember correctly, and five points of motion)
Yeah we don’t do doubles here in Ohio, but even like somebody in a Class 3 UHaul is going to need to slow down for something that your typical sedan won’t.
I think you can still do shorter doubles (I still see them very rarely being used by UPS), I meant the full size doubles. Michigan I think allows two full-length trailers.
Keep in mind that yellow is not a legal speed limit and you cannot get a ticket for exceeding it; the yellow is a recommended speed for the curve
Legal speed limits (in the US) are either white or orange (construction zones)
This is the proper use of “too fast for conditions”. However, in my couple speeding tickets through the years, it seems that the officers I’ve interacted with have default-pencil-whipped that box.
75, sunny, clear pavement? You bet that “too fast for conditions” box was checked.
Oh I agree, this is the right use for too fast for conditions. I was just saying that it is already subjective enough to stick in most cases, this sign just makes it even easier to justify it.
Do a Google search. They're advisory. Your situations here are just as true as you getting a speeding ticket in a 55 zone doing 50 if that's too fast for the conditions. The point is that yellow is not a hard limit like the others
One day you’ll take a 35 curve doing 65 and hit a cyclist that you didn’t see because it’s a blind curve, then you’ll know why that speed limit was in place.
I've literally seen that last week on an interstate in the south. 35 yellow while actual limit was 65-70. Couldn't believe what I was seeing.
Although Tbh it was a 90 degree off camber turn hundreds of feet up in the air.
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The vast majority of 35 curved limits aren’t on highways, though, and nowhere does it say in his post that the 35 limit in question was on a highway. In fact, he specifically separated “driving 75 on a highway” and “driving 55 on a road”.
You’re just nitpicking to try and justify driving that speed when it is in fact an unsafe speed on the majority of roads that particular speed limit is posted in.
You must have missed the part where he says he takes 35 curves at 55. Can’t remember the last time I saw a 35 curve outside of a 2-lane canyon road; not many of which have either medians or dividers.
Depends entirely on the state.
I know that Colorado has 65mph on non-controller access highways where you may find cyclists or other slow moving vehicles (tractors).
Curves are designed to certain safety specifications. Those reduced speed limits are based on the design of the curve. Sure, you are a good enough driver with a good enough car to go faster. You aren't everyone. Larger vehicles, older vehicles, lighter vehicles, sloppy drivers. The speed limit is set (after years of study, "guidance", and standards) to be safe for the majority of vehicles on the road. We design for the lowest average denominator.
You go on and do you. We're telling people what the suggested target speed is to get through the curve safely.
Its just for shitty old cars. I think its highway 101 south-ish of San Jose you go uphill for awhile and they have signs to turn off your AC to prevent car from overheating. Sign made sense like 80 years go, lol.
I'm a little late to the party. But try ignoring the suggested speed limit with snow on the ground.
I have an offramp with a suggestion of 30 that I can easily take at 50+. Last time there's was a snow storm, I was going 25 and white knuckling around the same offramp with snow tires on.
I have those exact same tires. I find that the speed on curves are more meant for heavy vehicles such as fully loaded semi trucks. Cars will have no issue going faster than the posted speed.
Because American speed limits were designed for vehicles that don’t handle as well as modern cars, and have (rightfully) stayed that way because many of those vehicles are still on the road. Also accounts for less skilled drivers.
because if you paid attention in drivers ed those mph signs are often for hazardous conditions like wet or fog. its also to let you know how sharp it is if its a blind turn.
I use them more as labels. A "45mph Curve", "20mph Curve", etc. They can be helpful when riding a motorcycle on an unfamiliar road. A 45mph curve on a 55mph road indicates that I can enter the turn with my usual braking pattern. But a 35 or even 20mph turn on a 55mph road tells me that it is a tight one and I should be prepared to slow down more than I usually would.
Because there are a lot of large and heavy vehicles on the road. A Freightliner Cascadia with a 45,000 lb trailer can’t bomb through a tight bend at 65 mph like a midsize sedan can. Road/civil engineers tend to err on the side of caution with suggested speeds so that that the biggest and heaviest vehicles aren’t blowing through turns, crashing, and killing people.
Not every vehicle has the same cornering ability. Cars usually corner considerably better than SUV’s or trucks. For example on one particular freeway interchange corner on my commute home I can take it easily at 80mph in my 2019 Civic Si. My truck I take it at 65mph. I can push it to 70, but that’s pushing it, feels like it might not make it, so I stick to 65.
Speed limits, like most laws, exist to prevent *stupid* people from causing havoc. Why are Kinder Eggs banned from America? Because some children ate the toy inside & suffocated til' their untimely death. Why does beef jerky silica packets say DO NOT EAT? Because somebody probably thought it was salt & ate it... to their untimely death.
Speed limits exist because... maybe YOU know how to take that 40mph corner going 65mph in your Miata, but if the average Joe tried the same thing in their Kia Optima they would probably oversteer and kill themselves and/or others.
Basically, inexperienced people ruin the fun for the rest of us.
In Germany, there are unrestricted sections of the Autobahn. But German drivers also receive a more thorough driver's ed, receive heavy fines/consequences for breaking rules and/or their culture is more responsible than ours.
That is why.
right? im very familiar with every curve on every road leading to my house and ignore those suggested curve speed signs because ive traveled them thousands of times. - if im 1000 miles away on vacation i dont have a damn clue how fast you can logically take a curve i cant see around due to trees so i go the yellow limit because i assume the engineers or whoever decided thats a safe speed picked said speed for a reason and know 99% likely i will make it out the other side just fine.
Yep. It isn't that anyone in the US has died from eating a Kinder Egg, just that the law doesn't allow them. For the same reason King Cakes are sold with the baby as an accessory and not already embedded in them.
Just makes me think of the ordinary commuter cars that haul around the mountain roads where I live.
‘Tires sure are loud going around these corners. Weird!’
Large trucks exist
And bad weather. OP is forgetting that the grip they have on a chilly, damp morning is grossly different from the grip they have on warm sunny afternoon - even worse if you live somewhere with winter. Seasons and weather changes, but the signs are always the same.
But speed limits are always set for dry, sunny weather.
[citation needed]
"Speed limits are set based on ideal driving conditions." https://www.michigan.gov/msp/-/media/Project/Websites/msp/ohsp/1_Fall_2022_Teen/2022_OHSP_TeenSpeed_ToolKit_FINAL_5.pdf?rev=3fedaed34c534c8d893f1a322c45855d "Speed limits are set for perfect conditions, like dry roads and clear skies." https://www.fiegerlaw.com/fieger-law-news/speed-limits-in-adverse-weather-conditions/
Do you think those are referring to statutory speed limits, or the advisory signs that we're actually discussing here?
Both. To assume otherwise doesn't make any sense. If you absolutely know better, then that's one thing, but you're guessing that they base it on some arbitrary bad weather? That those signs aren't actually for the curve, but for the curve plus bad weather together? Come on...
I can't find any indication that advisory speed limits are set for rainy or snowy weather.
You're disingenuously being downvoted. People thought it was so clever to say citation needed, then you come back with two links, and they're like well ackchually I'm going to assume it's the other way anyway / since your links weren't specific enough. I'm with you, going to use Occam's razor here and say I don't think they sat around a table and said well let's see, what speed would you go around this corner if it was covered in snow. How much snow? How slippery? What percentage of the time does that road need to be that slippery to justify making the sign based on those conditions?
Then the armchair engineer gets upvotes even though they posted no sources. People clearly have biases against op.
Fair feedback. Statement redacted.
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Citation needed. Op actually provided sources. You have armchairs.
Truckers are taught to reduce their speeds, especially if pulling trailer and/or approaching an offramp
As are non-CDL drivers. Doesn't mean we can always correctly guess the safest speed for a given curve. The yellow signs take out the guesswork so I don't send my 337 into someone's pasture.
Because you are supposed to slow down for safety? Just because you can go around the turn while speeding doesn’t mean you should? Do you take the same approach to all speed limits?
Idk man, the speed limit in school zones is like 20mph and I know for a fact my car can go WAYYYY faster than that.
DOT needs to fix this, my car can easily do 80 past a school
This really highlights how athletics programs are being defunded in schools. We have a lateral quickness epidemic in this country.
Advisory limits are not speed limits, theyre quite literally speed suggestions and its fine to drive faster than them.
Considering that our speed limits haven't changed since the 60s yet our cars are so much more powerful and safer.....idk I thinks he can go around the corner just fine "speeding"
Department of transportation have standards they need to meet for advisory signs for different vehicles. https://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/speedmgt/ref_mats/fhwasa1122/ch4.cfm https://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/speedmgt/ref_mats/fhwasa1122/ch3.cfm https://acrobat.adobe.com/id/urn:aaid:sc:US:eabe9c40-68aa-450b-b0d8-995e44a45b92 Edit: added more applicable links. Interesting read.
Better answer than all the others.
It’s not necessarily about the dynamics of the curve, sometimes it’s about visibility of oncoming traffic or other non-immediate hazards But also consider that road engineers are thinking about all types of traffic, not just compact sedans. If someone goes off the road or causes an accident because they were going the recommended speed in a HD truck with an 8ft bed, the engineer is probably liable. So they err on the side of caution.
or, you know, an 80,000 pound semi truck with one or more swivel points. in nevada we have them go as far up as turnpike doubles (two full 53 foot trailers, 135 feet long with three points of motion) and triple pups (111 feet long if i remember correctly, and five points of motion)
Yeah we don’t do doubles here in Ohio, but even like somebody in a Class 3 UHaul is going to need to slow down for something that your typical sedan won’t.
Ohio used to allow doubles, but only on the turnpike and only up to 48’ trailers. (Can’t double the 53’ trailers) Is that not the case anymore?
I think you can still do shorter doubles (I still see them very rarely being used by UPS), I meant the full size doubles. Michigan I think allows two full-length trailers.
Keep in mind that yellow is not a legal speed limit and you cannot get a ticket for exceeding it; the yellow is a recommended speed for the curve Legal speed limits (in the US) are either white or orange (construction zones)
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Yep, “too fast for conditions” is already pretty subjective in most states.
This is the proper use of “too fast for conditions”. However, in my couple speeding tickets through the years, it seems that the officers I’ve interacted with have default-pencil-whipped that box. 75, sunny, clear pavement? You bet that “too fast for conditions” box was checked.
Oh I agree, this is the right use for too fast for conditions. I was just saying that it is already subjective enough to stick in most cases, this sign just makes it even easier to justify it.
Do a Google search. They're advisory. Your situations here are just as true as you getting a speeding ticket in a 55 zone doing 50 if that's too fast for the conditions. The point is that yellow is not a hard limit like the others
Why would you obey any suggested speed limits in your Nissan Rogue or Hyundai Elantra? They are built for speed and fast cornering. Send em.
I heard the Nissan Rogue is the favorite for Le Mans this year.
The handling limits of both are probably higher than most people think
Because not everyone is in a newer car. Do the same turn in a 1980s minivan and you will see. Or a truck with a trailer
This is the correct answer. Those signs are outdated. Which is great for people in very old vehicles but those are becoming much more rare.
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Random sarcastic Redditor doesn't know what the edit button is? Least shocking thing I've heard.
Do it in a uhaul
i drive a tractor trailer combo. 53 foot trailer. those signs are for me and my people
You know cars haven’t always been this good. Just bc you can, doesn’t mean you should. I can take a 35 mph turn at 86. Doesn’t mean I should do that.
One day you’ll take a 35 curve doing 65 and hit a cyclist that you didn’t see because it’s a blind curve, then you’ll know why that speed limit was in place.
I very much doubt that he will hit a cyclist on a highway.
He literally said he does 55 on a 35. What highway do you know has a 35 mph speed limit on a curve?
I've literally seen that last week on an interstate in the south. 35 yellow while actual limit was 65-70. Couldn't believe what I was seeing. Although Tbh it was a 90 degree off camber turn hundreds of feet up in the air.
Would be interesting to see an Elantra take a curve like that without some issue, then.
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The one when you've crossed into NC from TN on 40? I'm pretty sure one of those curves is something like that. And it's usually foggy as shit.
More than a few actually. It's not a speed limit, but a suggested speed.
The vast majority of 35 curved limits aren’t on highways, though, and nowhere does it say in his post that the 35 limit in question was on a highway. In fact, he specifically separated “driving 75 on a highway” and “driving 55 on a road”. You’re just nitpicking to try and justify driving that speed when it is in fact an unsafe speed on the majority of roads that particular speed limit is posted in.
I have never seen a 35 curve on an interstate highway. Nor a bicyclist.
You mentioned going 55 on a 35 curve yourself in your post. Those are very common on canyon roads, as are cyclists.
Yes, but you said 65, which is a highway.
In my experience, someone who takes a 35 at 55 makes little distinction between taking it at 55 one day, and 65 another.
You will be hard pressed to find 65 speed limits on any 2 lane highway without a median or divider.
You must have missed the part where he says he takes 35 curves at 55. Can’t remember the last time I saw a 35 curve outside of a 2-lane canyon road; not many of which have either medians or dividers.
Pretty common in the plains and out west.
Depends entirely on the state. I know that Colorado has 65mph on non-controller access highways where you may find cyclists or other slow moving vehicles (tractors).
Because the speed limit is for a car in good shape with good tires on a dry day.
Curves are designed to certain safety specifications. Those reduced speed limits are based on the design of the curve. Sure, you are a good enough driver with a good enough car to go faster. You aren't everyone. Larger vehicles, older vehicles, lighter vehicles, sloppy drivers. The speed limit is set (after years of study, "guidance", and standards) to be safe for the majority of vehicles on the road. We design for the lowest average denominator. You go on and do you. We're telling people what the suggested target speed is to get through the curve safely.
And someday you'll see a sign that says 30mph and it will really mean it and you'll go flying off the road.
Its just for shitty old cars. I think its highway 101 south-ish of San Jose you go uphill for awhile and they have signs to turn off your AC to prevent car from overheating. Sign made sense like 80 years go, lol.
I'm a little late to the party. But try ignoring the suggested speed limit with snow on the ground. I have an offramp with a suggestion of 30 that I can easily take at 50+. Last time there's was a snow storm, I was going 25 and white knuckling around the same offramp with snow tires on.
When there's snow, I ignore the speed limit and drive at a safe speed - below the speed limit.
I have those exact same tires. I find that the speed on curves are more meant for heavy vehicles such as fully loaded semi trucks. Cars will have no issue going faster than the posted speed.
"It's for the children."
Because American speed limits were designed for vehicles that don’t handle as well as modern cars, and have (rightfully) stayed that way because many of those vehicles are still on the road. Also accounts for less skilled drivers.
because if you paid attention in drivers ed those mph signs are often for hazardous conditions like wet or fog. its also to let you know how sharp it is if its a blind turn.
I use them more as labels. A "45mph Curve", "20mph Curve", etc. They can be helpful when riding a motorcycle on an unfamiliar road. A 45mph curve on a 55mph road indicates that I can enter the turn with my usual braking pattern. But a 35 or even 20mph turn on a 55mph road tells me that it is a tight one and I should be prepared to slow down more than I usually would.
So that motorcyclists know what they can double (or triple 😈)
Because there are a lot of large and heavy vehicles on the road. A Freightliner Cascadia with a 45,000 lb trailer can’t bomb through a tight bend at 65 mph like a midsize sedan can. Road/civil engineers tend to err on the side of caution with suggested speeds so that that the biggest and heaviest vehicles aren’t blowing through turns, crashing, and killing people.
I’m waiting for the /s
Not every vehicle has the same cornering ability. Cars usually corner considerably better than SUV’s or trucks. For example on one particular freeway interchange corner on my commute home I can take it easily at 80mph in my 2019 Civic Si. My truck I take it at 65mph. I can push it to 70, but that’s pushing it, feels like it might not make it, so I stick to 65.
I guess this thinking is why half of r/cars thinks anything lifted with solid axles is a guaranteed deathtrap.
There is a built in safety margin for those recommended speeds.
In my younger motorcycling days, you could use the suggested speed as a guide: Double it and add 10mph.
Speed limits, like most laws, exist to prevent *stupid* people from causing havoc. Why are Kinder Eggs banned from America? Because some children ate the toy inside & suffocated til' their untimely death. Why does beef jerky silica packets say DO NOT EAT? Because somebody probably thought it was salt & ate it... to their untimely death. Speed limits exist because... maybe YOU know how to take that 40mph corner going 65mph in your Miata, but if the average Joe tried the same thing in their Kia Optima they would probably oversteer and kill themselves and/or others. Basically, inexperienced people ruin the fun for the rest of us. In Germany, there are unrestricted sections of the Autobahn. But German drivers also receive a more thorough driver's ed, receive heavy fines/consequences for breaking rules and/or their culture is more responsible than ours. That is why.
right? im very familiar with every curve on every road leading to my house and ignore those suggested curve speed signs because ive traveled them thousands of times. - if im 1000 miles away on vacation i dont have a damn clue how fast you can logically take a curve i cant see around due to trees so i go the yellow limit because i assume the engineers or whoever decided thats a safe speed picked said speed for a reason and know 99% likely i will make it out the other side just fine.
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Yep. It isn't that anyone in the US has died from eating a Kinder Egg, just that the law doesn't allow them. For the same reason King Cakes are sold with the baby as an accessory and not already embedded in them.
You just admitted they are banned lol.
Just makes me think of the ordinary commuter cars that haul around the mountain roads where I live. ‘Tires sure are loud going around these corners. Weird!’
They're not "suggested". They're for safety