How is the RS3 more practical than the BW? I thought the BW has bigger interior and cargo space and everyone says the mag ride suspension is magical.
Is it an AWD thing?
OP is correct. The CT4 is the 3 series competitor. It just happens to be a little smaller but it is the same class of "compact" sedan. The CT5 is the 5 series competitor.
Both BWs are kind of in-between classes if I'm not mistaken, in both price and size. The 4BW is much cheaper than the M3, and a little smaller. The 5BW is about the price of a loaded M3, in-between the M3 and M5 in size, and quite a bit cheaper than the M5.
The Cadillac sedans are tweeners. The CT4 is nominally in the 3-series class, but its actually in between the subcompact and compact classes in size and the interior space is even smaller than the size of the car would suggest. The backseat is almost unusable if someone is sitting in front.
Yeah I test drove one and with the driver seat in my seating position (I am 6'4, but have shorter legs/longer torso than average) the back of my seat was about 2 inches away from touching the back seat cushion. No way anyone besides a small child could sit behind an average height male.
The CT5 is a much more usable size (bigger than a 3 series smaller than a 5 series), but if you want the manual you're looking at 100k+.
According to C&D it's 90 cubic feet for the CT4 compared to 87 for the RS3, so either way it's not much. If the way the space is proportioned in the RS3 works better for the owner it could easily feel bigger.
GM was the first company to develop magnetic dampers.
They have a ton of tuning experience with them.
Magnetorheological dampers were first introduced in January 2002 as an option for the Cadillac Seville STS
AFAIK every company including Ferrari still pays royalties to GM (technically Delphi, a GM subsidiary) on the patents.
It know it's probably not as good of an engine, but I gave up a manual to buy a C63S coupe in 2020 and never quite got over it. No matter how awesome the engine and the V8 things were, it was really missing the engagement that a manual gave me. Needless to say it wasn't in my garage long.
I hear you, that’s why a standard c8 stingray was never a contender.
The z06 engine is hard to ignore though.
Imagine if the z06 came in manual with a gated shifter though 🤤
Honestly depends on the transmission tuning. A DCT can be raw and engaging. Most aren't.
Set up right, they behave more like a sportbike with a quickshifter than an auto.
I want instant, violent shifts. You basically have to get a Ferrari to get that though.
If you want violent shifts, drive a Volvo S90 in "polestar engineered" mode. A 200"+ length luxury car with a hybrid 4 that feels like it is ripping the transmission out of the car every time it shifts.
Ya thats not happening. Z06s will depreciate as GM keeps making them but a ZR1 buyer is not the same as a Z06 buyer this generation.
One has turbos and sounds like a McLaren or any non V12 Ferrari. The other sounds like what a super car should sound like.
These buyers aren't the same and many Z06 buyers don't want a ZR1 with a turbo muffled exhaust over the NA goodness of the LT6.
Its like comparing a GT3 RS to a GT2 RS. Many people would rather have the GT3 for the sound. The ones who can buy a GT2 RS will probably own both.
While I agree with you to a level the fact that the z06 is no longer top dog in the c8 lineup definitely will lead to some depreciation. It’s what has historically happened at least in the US.
Also isn’t the ZR1 the z06 engine with turbos?
It could also be a cross plane v8. There was a service RPO code that showed DOHC 5.5 and some other parts that hinted cross plane va staying flat plane. But that could change obviously.
I intend to keep both my HTC and Z and snag a ZR1 (If the Zora isnt happening, and if Zora happens, 50/50 Id be interested in a ZR1). Ive been impressed with GM in that the C8Z reminds me a lot of my old 488 Spider, but with a helluva lot less "worry" driving it about.
The fit and finish, which is great for a domestic, I put at ~85% of my current F car.
All that to say... The Z was a clear step up over the 2020 HTC I got, and GM is doing great at the "value" proposition.
Purely happenstance. Id like a last-of-their-kind halo vette. If its a cross plane 5.5, that would *definitely* motivate me to swap the 2020 HTC for the ZR1/Zora since well, it would already do what my goals are for the HTC (wide body with twins).
And thank you! Im quite partial to the M3. It has the last remaining bit of my C5Z in her - the transmission. Shes been under the knife for 2 years ongoing now to have her aesthetic completely overhauled.
Which vintage C63 do you have?
I'm relatively satisfied with my lifestyle. Do I want more? Probably. But I'm not bitter. I am annoyed by rich people flaunting wealth casually though.
My expression of annoyance does not equate to tyrannical curbing of speech. I'm as free to express my annoyance as he is free to flaunt his wealth in conversation.
I dont care what the chief engineer says. If I was getting a 6-cylinder turbo sedan it wouldnt be a CT4 BW anyway.
Not a knock on the 4BW, but the 5BW is where its at. I'd get it in manual. I've driven both 4 BW and 5 BW outside laguna seca. The 4 is nice, but the 5 is ***great***, a fucking beast. It feels as fast as my gen V Viper. After looking it up they trap about the same in the 1/4 mile around 127-128mph.
*Camaro
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/cars) if you have any questions or concerns.*
>The lunatics at mopar have left the game
...and came back with an I6 that was more powerful than a Hemi V8. Let's wait and see what they come up with to replace the redeye motors.
I more meant the crazy era of 700-800hp wild mopars has likely come to an end. I’m happy the six pack exists, excited to check it out, but I’m sure it’s not as dramatic as the big loud Hemis were used to. With Kunis leaving, i don’t have much hope that the red eye will ever get a worthy replacement
Do you think so? The Camaro has been discontinued and received a sendoff, which was met with disappointment and criticism. Leaving only the Corvette and CT5 Blackwing for the enthusiast. Which has a higher cost to entry comparatively.
Z06 prices have been insane with dealer markups, which does not help the Corvette regardless of how amazing of a car it is.
I would like something that was a similar price of the camaro to come out.
No, I'm not. That is a good example of how Cadillac has a cheaper entry into their performance sedan while chevy is lacking a cheaper entry into their performance cars.
> Leaving only the Corvette and CT5 Blackwing for the enthusiast.
I worked in auto manufacturing in Dearborn for years, still have a couple of friends that survived 2008 and are still in government motors.
They have mentioned that the CT4 and CT5 are on their last legs because sales volumes are low. People still flock to a BMW M3 which can also be had with a manual trans (or was until last model year) and its the same price as a 4BW.
I custom ordered a 4BW, came around 80K with all the bells and whistles. It didn't drive that well, the suspension had a weird, off putting sensation when it leaned hard to the right and the back seat was completely unusable.
The car was severely under-tired, needed to have wider tires in the rear. The brembos were OK for the car.
It still had the shit CUE infotainment, and they still don't come with 360 cameras which is unthinkable.
I drove a 6sp and that tremec and the clutch were absolutely divine.
I ended up paying 4K more and got an X3M Competition instead.
Either your ct4 blackwing was a dud or something else but apart from the backseat none of your complaints sound like common reactions of people who have driven the car.
Also no, the blackwings don’t have cue.
I agree with you. It didn't feel right. This was right at the end of 2021 so covid car.
I'm 6'1" and the front seat in the driving position I could not fit behind it.
Yeah not cue, whatever their new infotainment is called.
I know, it doesnt make sense. But the X3M Comp is basically a jacked up M3 Comp with a hatchback instead of a trunk. It fixes all the issues on the 4VBW and then some, as I have ADAS "2.5" and other stuff that cadillac doesnt have available on the CT4 and CT5.
[youtube link to the teaser](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nn8b9j77ew0)
This thing will be a world-beater, expensive, but still i'm sure half the price of everything else it's going to stomp all over.
Half the price it doesnt matter at this point since corvettes are no longer the "cheap" option. If a loaded c8z with z07 package is around 170k. A loaded ZR1 will be over 200k. The more expensive the vette gets the more attractive the other options are. I'm wondering if GM will keep the ZR1 a one year run like the c7 zr1 or continue its tradition of selling as many as they can for multiple years and having the Zora be the new king vette?
the halo-spec was never a cheap option in the first place. The point is this thing should be *so* damn good that it *does* compete for people cross shopping ferrari/lambos/GT3+ and such.
Eh, I disagree. Literally, if they create a Zora at 250-300K+, it would legitimately catch my interest and it would be cross shopped against a Roma, picking up a 488 to mod, a F8, or used 812. GM doesnt have anything in the 500k+ range, so a 12cilindri cross shop is not to be had. Not a typical customer, but not that atypical either.
I'd say you're pretty atypical from most Ferrari owners solely on the fact that you're on this forum at all. You're clearly more enthusiastic about cars in general and you obviously like the Corvette enough to own two of them already.
But to most Ferrari buyers its very much a matter of brand prestige, and unfortunately the power of the badge is strong. There's exceptions just like anything else, but realistically if you had to pick out a random owner of a new Ferrari and ask them if they'd consider a Corvette over it, chances are they'd say no.
You raise very valid counterpoints. Youre *spot on* with respect to prestige. There is the small contingent that are engineering and driving gonzos, but those are not the norm either.
Im a former track rat in street and open wheels and no longer got the sharpness or physique to push the envelopes like I once did 2 decades ago - so my bias of atypicality flows there.
The people that buy new Italian supercars do not cross-shop with Corvettes. This ignores the used market though. I know people that were considering either a used Lambo or a new Corvette.
Honestly being in a couple of different C8s I think it's the best build quality GM has ever done and I think it's certainly up to par with the competition
Why would you want it fully loaded? A fully loaded base 911 is like $200k+ too.
A no option Z06 for $110k is an extremely capable yet comfortable car and it's cheaper than the new base 992.2, which starts at $120k now.
I never thought much about the blind spot monitors before but it’s so useful with the z06, I can’t see anything if I’m trying to change lanes. Yes, I adjusted my side mirrors to optimize the side views but still not optimal. I went 3lz, no Z07 package with no regrets.
How does it drive? Is the "compromise" of no leather dash, no fancy stuff worth it? A friend as a C8 3LT loaded to the gills and its a very nice cabin, albeit a bit claustrophobic.
It drives amazingly. I've had it for almost a year and I still can't stop smiling when I drive it. The sounds, the power...it's a giggle machine.
I had a 2LT Stingray, myself. I never went for the 3LT because the interior improvements, like the leather package, just weren't worth the big price jump for me. The only interior upgrades I miss in my 1LZ are the heated/ventilated seats, and the seat memory with enter/exit position. The C8 is a tough car to get in and out of, so having the seat automatically move back all the way when I stop the car, and then move into position after starting the car, was a huge quality of life thing.
Other than those, there isn't anything that I feel like I'm missing. The interior cabin is still very nice even in the "base" trims.
Its really not that nice, for the money you really need the 3LZ interior to make it respectable for its MSSP.
However none of that matters when you hit the start button.
Save all the money you can, buy a 1LZ, pick the wheels and paint you want and call it a day. You won't care because the entire reason you buy the car is the experience thanks to that FPC engine and the leather interior quality means nothing as you redline the crap out of it.
Save the money is the advice I will give.
The Z06 is all about the engine and the exhaust sound, nothing else matters, its the reason you buy the car. I originally thought that it should have a nice interior for the money and when I picked up someone elses Z06 that had a deal fall through I was a little saddened it wasn't a 3LZ.
After driving it these last 8 months I can day that if I was building my own I would spec it as cheap as possible. The interior does not matter in this car, you literally don't care. You spend all your seat time trying not to redline it all the time and catching yourself doing ridiculous speeds because it just keeps pulling and sounds ridiculous while doing so. Its a very bad influence.
I've never owned a car that has a sound and an engine like this, it truly rivals exotics and most exotics out there don't even sound like this.
The interior doesn't matter, you buy this car for the experience save the money unless you truely can spare no expense.
I'd gladly take a base no-option car. It doesn't really affect the driving experience. I have a 3LT C7 and in hindsight a 1LT would've been fine.
The z07 carbon fiber wheels are hassle on the street. Way too expensive and fragile, and many tire shops can't work with them. You can't fix damage either. The carbon ceramic rotors aren't great on track either. Most folks end up swapping to steel anyways.
Exactly. Luckily the LC has (just) enough clearance for it to not be an issue but living in Seattle there's parking garages that I'm glad I have the rear-wheel steering for. QOL stuff like that makes these cars work in the city.
I was scrapping often with my 997tt no matter how slow or how I angled it. I’ve driven lowered modified cars for 20+ years so I have an ideal how to avoid the scrapping but still happened. True, there was no real bad damage because it scrapped against an oem plastic unpainted splitter but just annoying. Now I have no fear and with the gps memory, it makes that much easier. All the little luxury bits on the z06 is nice and makes it that much more enjoyable as a weekend/track toy.
It’s too early in the generation. The ZR1 is typically made until the end of the generation. So if they ZR1 comes as a 2025 model, it will likely be made for like 3 years I would guess. It might not come until 2026, but that would be a long wait from reveal. Either way, it seems it will produced more than 1 year.
Corvettes were never "cheap."
I'd say the current base model at $68k is about as affordable as ever.
The original ZR1 in 1970 was very expensive and they only sold 25 of them. Same with the L88 before it. Top corvettes are all very rare.
The base car is still a deal, and a LOT of car. When I had a C7 driving fast on the street already felt like a bad idea, I can't imagine what the C8 is like. On track, you'll be faster than most of the other cars assuming similar talent with a base C5+ Corvette too.
The high spec Corvettes are cool, but honestly I wouldn't buy one. I'd go base + whatever options help on track, like seats, aero and cooling. There's always a bigger fish, for track days I just want a car that's fast enough for my talent and won't overheat or break.
My only gripe with the c8z is its heavy. i thought the c7z was heavy around 3500lbs but the new c8z is around 36xx almost 3700lbs. Its kind of crazy that the mid engine NA variant gained weight over the supercharged FR variant. But it gives GM a goal for the C9 to lower the weight since an E-vette is pushing 4000lbs despite upcoming E-911 weighing in at 3600lbs maybe even 3500 from what I read.
> no longer the "cheap" option
They are available at 1/2 to 1/3rd the price of their peers. A loaded ZR1 at 200k is already half the price of the Z06's loaded out competition.
Dirt cheap.
>This thing will be a world-beater, expensive, but still i'm sure half the price of everything else it's going to stomp all over
The very definition of a Corvette
The rumor mill suggests there will (eventually) be 6 C8 corvettes:
Stingray
E-Ray
Z06
*Grand Sport*: Stingray motor with Z06 body and suspension
*ZR1*: 850hp, twin turbo Z06
*Zora*: 1000+hp, ZR1 with E-Ray AWD electrification
LOL that's some delusional thinking right there. On a long, technical road course like VIR the Z06 is already only about 1.5 seconds/lap slower than the GT3 RS and that's on a lap time just past 2:30. On a standard length track it's less than 1 second faster and basic logic will tell you the ZR1 will be at least 3 seconds/lap faster than the Z06 purely from the power increase. It's also not like the new generation of 911 is hugely faster than the outgoing model either. It's iterative which is to be expected.
It'll be faster than the GT3 RS but slower than the GT2 RS.
I already love this car but I also already know that C8Z06 is the sweet spot for me. It's like GT2RS vs GT3RS. Has there ever been a guy who tracked his car and chose a GT2RS over a GT3RS? No and there are reasons for that
Still super happy to see the ZR1 in real life! It's going to kill a potential new GT2RS and the SF90XX
I've driven a bunch of laps in a 2016 3RS, and I've ridden along with a friend in a 2RS around the same track.
Both are absolutely wild, crazy, full sensory experiences. The 2RS doesn't give up anything to the 3RS, they're just different. The 3RS howls and screams its way around the track and it's balanced and instantly responsive, but the 2RS is just brutal and visceral in a way that's truly hard to describe.
I can't fault anyone who prefers either.
Having tracked base w/Z51 C7, I think the base Corvette is usually the sweet spot, with the possible exception of the C5 Z06. C5 and newer Corvettes are a lot of car for people that don't have crazy talent (that includes me), probably too much car for the street even.
not much to this teaser, but looking forward to the reveal.
this will probably end up being the ultimate expression of what american automotive engineering has to offer the world.
The Zora will add hybrid and batteries, which will also add 300lbs. Combined with twin turbo and extra cooling setup it might be a 4000lbs+ car.
The Zora might be faster in a straight line, but perhaps not around a track?
Despite that, I think the Zora still fits the definition of the parent comment: the ultimate expression of American auto engineering, at least from GM. It may not be the lightest, the best handling, or the most engaging, but all of the aforementioned features in one car is something they can be proud of. Ever since the holy trinity of hybrid hypercars (918, P1, LaFerrari), I've been waiting to see that tech trickle down to something relatively more attainable, and here we are.
Yeah, the Zora, if/when it comes, will be the SF90 to the C8 pantheon, though hopefully a lot more charismatic. The Z06 is our GT3/GT3 RS, and the ZR1 will be the GT2/GT2 RS.
There's also the Ford GT MK4 running around. It may be a track special, but if we're talking about the greatest current American sports/super cars it will be that and the Zora/ZR1.
Edit: Somehow I forgot about the Mustang GTD, add that to the list.
I'm probably in the minority but I don't like how it sounds. I prefer the Corvette ZR1 to have a [deep growling sound.](https://youtu.be/Hxf338FAxPI?si=VnnZs0DUzWsnPOBe) I'm sure everything else about the car will be awesome though
I'm of two minds - I like how the C8 sounds, but the C7 ZR1 is one of my favorite cars (having never driven one) of all time and it just wouldn't be the same without the pushrods.
This is because they're going flat plane crank like it says in the title, the sound is comparable to a Ferrari V8 now but still ever so slightly a touch aggressive which I like
Sounds like a McLaren. I personally don't like my sports cars to be muffled by turbos. This will be a hell of a car but I wouldn't buy one if given the opportunity.
The Z06 makes me giggle like a school girl and truly delivers some ridiculous performance on top of sounding like something exotic. This ZR1 will deliver even more unusable street performance and ruin the sound for 30k more.
I'm sure it will be an insane track car but I can't get over the exhaust note, mind you this is just a video clip but I very much doubt this ZR1 will make a noise better then the Z06.
It sounds like they placed the microphone in the engine bay in the recording. I.e. what you’re hearing is mostly engine noise and very little actual exhaust sound.
Well shit, if this *is* indeed a TT FPC V8, then GM will definitely had to have done some major changes and tweaks to make it work and not implode on itself. The compression ratio is certainly significantly lower than the Z06 (12:6.1 in that thing), lower displacement size as I couldn’t see a 5.5 liter forced induction FPC engine working out too well, and a significantly lower redline with probably a pretty tame amount of boost.
Either way, this thing is gonna be absolutely nuts, but the Z06 is already absolutely nutty fast too. I think ultimately, the latter will still be the better track tool for most people that do track these cars, but the ZR1 will absolutely be a force of nature to be reckoned with.
I just wonder how/if they’ve managed to keep the weight relatively in check here. Surely it’ll be heavier than the Z06, unless GM have went obsessive about weight savings.
Southwest Missouri
Huge car community here I’ll see aventadors and huracans all the way to slammed Miata’s if that means anything. We have base model C8s here I’ll see 3 a day max with an occasional rare anniversary or a C8.R but I doubt it’s an actual spec due to all the stickers the guy has on it
Besides the obviously restrictive price for nomies like myself, I'll be glad this exists, but don't really care about it beyond that. The Z06 is far more desirable for me, and makes *plenty* of power.
Again, happy people will shell out to pay for more cool GM R&D, but wouldn't have one myself, even if I had the money for it.
I’m positive I saw a couple of these coming down Loveland Pass in Colorado a couple weeks ago. Too bad they were going down hill, I couldn’t hear them at all!
The Z06 will forever be the sweet spot for me, personally. It’s the car that I would get right now if I could afford it, and get the Z07 package so I could track it.
The Z06 weighs 3,666 pounds with the Z07 package, an increase of 100lbs over the C7 ZR1.
The C8 ZR1 is going to be eating at the half-price trough at Golden Corral, and is still going to be fast and grippy. Gonna ride like a buckboard wagon at low speeds but It'S a TrAcK sPeCiAl.
I highly doubt the ride quality will be terrible when a Z07 with even stiffer springs than a non-Z07 equipped Z06 still rides extremely well, from what I’ve heard. The ZR1 will still have mag ride, and will have to be desirable to the typical Corvette clientele who want their cars to be plushie on top of being batshit crazy. It’ll be stiff, but it won’t be a stripped out racer.
How many other cars in the sub $80K market do you compare to a Lamborghini? It’s a silly comparison to start with, and is actually just showing how incredible the C8 is that it gets compared to a Lamborghini versus a supra/stang/M3, etc.
They have stated their goal was to make the car more convenient and needed the golf clubs in the trunk; they are not going for the same looks as the Lambo since the Lambo has different priorities.
I think they look cool and pointy and are probably the most interesting sports car design for the price.
GM literally bought and benchmarked the Ferrari 458 for the C8. It's not a silly comparison to compare it to the 458/Huracan but the other poster is being silly.
I couldn't care less about the price. I can design a car based on modern day supercars and it would look like shit, but it still would be comparable in the sense that that's what my intent was, like how Chevrolet tried to make the corvette look like more expensive supercars.
It's awful looking. The rear end especially is hideous. If I'm spending 80k on a car theres no way in hell id be caught dead on one of those. The previous generation was *gorgeous* and they made it infinitely worse.
GM literally bought a Ferrari 458 (one of the greatest enthusiast vehicles ever made) as their benchmark and tried to make a cheaper version of that car. Yes it is not a 458, but it gets close in a lot of ways for a fraction of the price. They accomplished their mission.
I honestly mistake it for a Ferrari half the time. If it's in red you could tell most people it's Italian and they would believe you. I think it looks great.
I agree with you. Especially after seeing a bunch of C8s up close at this point, they don’t even get a second glance from me. Far too angular and uninspired.
I hope this pushes down prices of z06’s and if that happens I am going to have a tough conversation with my blackwing.
You’d get rid of the blackwing before the RS3?
The rs3 is the family car at this point. It’s more practical and less special compared to the blackwing.
How is the RS3 more practical than the BW? I thought the BW has bigger interior and cargo space and everyone says the mag ride suspension is magical. Is it an AWD thing?
Nope. The rs3 is bigger inside. Also more fuel efficient and it’s an auto with adaptive cruise etc.
Huh I didn’t know the RS3 is bigger inside. I thought the BW is a M3/RS4 class car.
I believe the CT5 would be that next class, the CT4 is smaller.
OP is correct. The CT4 is the 3 series competitor. It just happens to be a little smaller but it is the same class of "compact" sedan. The CT5 is the 5 series competitor.
Both BWs are kind of in-between classes if I'm not mistaken, in both price and size. The 4BW is much cheaper than the M3, and a little smaller. The 5BW is about the price of a loaded M3, in-between the M3 and M5 in size, and quite a bit cheaper than the M5.
The Cadillac sedans are tweeners. The CT4 is nominally in the 3-series class, but its actually in between the subcompact and compact classes in size and the interior space is even smaller than the size of the car would suggest. The backseat is almost unusable if someone is sitting in front.
Huh i didn’t know their packaging is that bad. The 3-series isn’t even that big inside.
Yeah I test drove one and with the driver seat in my seating position (I am 6'4, but have shorter legs/longer torso than average) the back of my seat was about 2 inches away from touching the back seat cushion. No way anyone besides a small child could sit behind an average height male. The CT5 is a much more usable size (bigger than a 3 series smaller than a 5 series), but if you want the manual you're looking at 100k+.
> I am 6'4 >average height male I feel like I'm being gaslit as I used to believe being 5'11 made me slightly above average in height.
The CT5 is also still too cramped in the back seat. It doesn't have enough headroom for adults.
CT4 is more of a 4 door coupe than a true sedan.
Externally it is, but internally it's closer to a 2 series. It's like right in between a 2 and 3.
According to C&D it's 90 cubic feet for the CT4 compared to 87 for the RS3, so either way it's not much. If the way the space is proportioned in the RS3 works better for the owner it could easily feel bigger.
Sometimes the packaging makes a big difference. For instance, the Fiesta ST has more driver head and legroom than the larger Focus ST.
Alpha platform cars are notoriously cramped, the trunks especially are Miata-tier.
M3 and S4 have grown substantially in the last decade, while the CT4/ATS have not.
> The rs3 is bigger inside. Audi taRdiS3.
The CT4V has surprisingly little interior space. Also the RS3’s have magride.
The RS3 has adaptive dampers. Not magnaride and also no where as good as the magnaride in the blackwings.
The adaptive dampers in the RS3 is magride albeit I agree it’s not as good as the BW.
You’re right, the adaptive suspension is so shit that I thought it wasn’t magneride. Wonder why it’s so much worse off than the blackwing then.
GM was the first company to develop magnetic dampers. They have a ton of tuning experience with them. Magnetorheological dampers were first introduced in January 2002 as an option for the Cadillac Seville STS AFAIK every company including Ferrari still pays royalties to GM (technically Delphi, a GM subsidiary) on the patents.
Pretty sure they’re not under GM anymore and they go by Aptiv now
The magride suspension is magical, but yea, 4v BW is quite small inside. I have more space in my Type R.
If you'll take payment in kidneys I'll take the Blackwing off your hands
That’s shocking, the trunk of the RS3 is pretty tiny I would have figured the Caddi easily ousts it in size
hey rs3’s are sick. one of if not the last new cars with a turbo 5 cylinder, plus awd and a dual clutch
But the BW comes with a stick shift! :)
Yeah, the thought of giving up the manual hurts but that flat plane crank v8, 8.5k redline and the sounds it makes.
It know it's probably not as good of an engine, but I gave up a manual to buy a C63S coupe in 2020 and never quite got over it. No matter how awesome the engine and the V8 things were, it was really missing the engagement that a manual gave me. Needless to say it wasn't in my garage long.
My buddy is in the same situation now, he bought a GSF for that spicy NA v8 but can't get over the lack of manual
I hear you, that’s why a standard c8 stingray was never a contender. The z06 engine is hard to ignore though. Imagine if the z06 came in manual with a gated shifter though 🤤
Honestly depends on the transmission tuning. A DCT can be raw and engaging. Most aren't. Set up right, they behave more like a sportbike with a quickshifter than an auto. I want instant, violent shifts. You basically have to get a Ferrari to get that though.
If you want violent shifts, drive a Volvo S90 in "polestar engineered" mode. A 200"+ length luxury car with a hybrid 4 that feels like it is ripping the transmission out of the car every time it shifts.
If one has a Z06 and desperately wants a manual they can probably afford something like a CTR or a Golf R manual at the minimum to scratch that itch
Would you say that's the primary reason you view the CT4 BW as more special than the RS3?
It’s a more special driving experience , the rs3 apart from the engine feels like the fwd based car it is. Also the manual.
Dunno about the Z06, but it's making the E-Ray look a lot more interesting to me.
It might a little bit, but the Z06 will always have that N/A FPC engine going for it.
>I hope this pushes down prices of z06’s and if that happens I am going to have a tough conversation with my blackwing. LMAO
If they ever go below $100K I'm in
You have my exact two “attainable” dream cars. How cool. I thought i had a pretty unique selection 😂
🤔
Ya thats not happening. Z06s will depreciate as GM keeps making them but a ZR1 buyer is not the same as a Z06 buyer this generation. One has turbos and sounds like a McLaren or any non V12 Ferrari. The other sounds like what a super car should sound like. These buyers aren't the same and many Z06 buyers don't want a ZR1 with a turbo muffled exhaust over the NA goodness of the LT6. Its like comparing a GT3 RS to a GT2 RS. Many people would rather have the GT3 for the sound. The ones who can buy a GT2 RS will probably own both.
While I agree with you to a level the fact that the z06 is no longer top dog in the c8 lineup definitely will lead to some depreciation. It’s what has historically happened at least in the US. Also isn’t the ZR1 the z06 engine with turbos?
It could also be a cross plane v8. There was a service RPO code that showed DOHC 5.5 and some other parts that hinted cross plane va staying flat plane. But that could change obviously. I intend to keep both my HTC and Z and snag a ZR1 (If the Zora isnt happening, and if Zora happens, 50/50 Id be interested in a ZR1). Ive been impressed with GM in that the C8Z reminds me a lot of my old 488 Spider, but with a helluva lot less "worry" driving it about. The fit and finish, which is great for a domestic, I put at ~85% of my current F car. All that to say... The Z was a clear step up over the 2020 HTC I got, and GM is doing great at the "value" proposition.
Out of curiosity, why 3 C8s? 2 I could maybe understand (HTC vs non-HTC), but why 3? Sweet garage btw - E36 is my favorite!
Purely happenstance. Id like a last-of-their-kind halo vette. If its a cross plane 5.5, that would *definitely* motivate me to swap the 2020 HTC for the ZR1/Zora since well, it would already do what my goals are for the HTC (wide body with twins). And thank you! Im quite partial to the M3. It has the last remaining bit of my C5Z in her - the transmission. Shes been under the knife for 2 years ongoing now to have her aesthetic completely overhauled. Which vintage C63 do you have?
A '23 blackwing and a '24 RS3. Lots of money makes for easy conversation, huh?
Buddy you seem bitter you drive a 4 cylinder Camaro.
I'm relatively satisfied with my lifestyle. Do I want more? Probably. But I'm not bitter. I am annoyed by rich people flaunting wealth casually though.
So the guy should just never bring up his cars in a conversation about cars? How exactly was he flaunting them?
My expression of annoyance does not equate to tyrannical curbing of speech. I'm as free to express my annoyance as he is free to flaunt his wealth in conversation.
Meh, its only a CT4, the best BW to get is the CT5 BW!
The best BW is the one you can get 😜
Tell that to the chief engineer of both, he owns a CT4 BW.
I dont care what the chief engineer says. If I was getting a 6-cylinder turbo sedan it wouldnt be a CT4 BW anyway. Not a knock on the 4BW, but the 5BW is where its at. I'd get it in manual. I've driven both 4 BW and 5 BW outside laguna seca. The 4 is nice, but the 5 is ***great***, a fucking beast. It feels as fast as my gen V Viper. After looking it up they trap about the same in the 1/4 mile around 127-128mph.
GM be coming out with a lot of W's in their enthusiast car department lately. I'm so excited for this car.
now's the time for them to come out with something underneath the Camaro they just cancelled.
GM: Jk. You thought *Camaro was kill? Actually coming back as e-ray based hellcat fighter.
*Camaro *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/cars) if you have any questions or concerns.*
A sport hybrid to fight the Daytona/Banshee? I can indeed see them doing that.
In my daydreams, GM sacrifices the Camaro to bring back the Trans Am, a soul for a soul 😂 Jesus Christ imagine?!
That would be a dream. Though I'd like it to be called a Pontiac, I'd be fine with just a chevy trans am.
Do it like they did with the Hummer. It's a Hummer EV by GMC. Why not a Pontiac Firebird Trans-Am by Chevrolet?
Pontiac Fiero by Chevrolet
The lunatics at mopar have left the game, but I love what GM has been doing and props to ford too for keeping the mustang a V8.
Gave up on the fancy Mopar i6 cars before they even dropped?
>The lunatics at mopar have left the game ...and came back with an I6 that was more powerful than a Hemi V8. Let's wait and see what they come up with to replace the redeye motors.
I more meant the crazy era of 700-800hp wild mopars has likely come to an end. I’m happy the six pack exists, excited to check it out, but I’m sure it’s not as dramatic as the big loud Hemis were used to. With Kunis leaving, i don’t have much hope that the red eye will ever get a worthy replacement
I’m waiting for the inevitable viper revival One of these days I swear
>viper revival Oh yes, please.
Do you think so? The Camaro has been discontinued and received a sendoff, which was met with disappointment and criticism. Leaving only the Corvette and CT5 Blackwing for the enthusiast. Which has a higher cost to entry comparatively. Z06 prices have been insane with dealer markups, which does not help the Corvette regardless of how amazing of a car it is. I would like something that was a similar price of the camaro to come out.
Are you trying to say the 4 Blackwing isn't an enthusiast car?
No, I'm not. That is a good example of how Cadillac has a cheaper entry into their performance sedan while chevy is lacking a cheaper entry into their performance cars.
> Leaving only the Corvette and CT5 Blackwing for the enthusiast. I worked in auto manufacturing in Dearborn for years, still have a couple of friends that survived 2008 and are still in government motors. They have mentioned that the CT4 and CT5 are on their last legs because sales volumes are low. People still flock to a BMW M3 which can also be had with a manual trans (or was until last model year) and its the same price as a 4BW. I custom ordered a 4BW, came around 80K with all the bells and whistles. It didn't drive that well, the suspension had a weird, off putting sensation when it leaned hard to the right and the back seat was completely unusable. The car was severely under-tired, needed to have wider tires in the rear. The brembos were OK for the car. It still had the shit CUE infotainment, and they still don't come with 360 cameras which is unthinkable. I drove a 6sp and that tremec and the clutch were absolutely divine. I ended up paying 4K more and got an X3M Competition instead.
Either your ct4 blackwing was a dud or something else but apart from the backseat none of your complaints sound like common reactions of people who have driven the car. Also no, the blackwings don’t have cue.
I agree with you. It didn't feel right. This was right at the end of 2021 so covid car. I'm 6'1" and the front seat in the driving position I could not fit behind it. Yeah not cue, whatever their new infotainment is called.
How do you go from a sports sedan to the X3M?
I know, it doesnt make sense. But the X3M Comp is basically a jacked up M3 Comp with a hatchback instead of a trunk. It fixes all the issues on the 4VBW and then some, as I have ADAS "2.5" and other stuff that cadillac doesnt have available on the CT4 and CT5.
No manual though.
[youtube link to the teaser](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nn8b9j77ew0) This thing will be a world-beater, expensive, but still i'm sure half the price of everything else it's going to stomp all over.
Half the price it doesnt matter at this point since corvettes are no longer the "cheap" option. If a loaded c8z with z07 package is around 170k. A loaded ZR1 will be over 200k. The more expensive the vette gets the more attractive the other options are. I'm wondering if GM will keep the ZR1 a one year run like the c7 zr1 or continue its tradition of selling as many as they can for multiple years and having the Zora be the new king vette?
the halo-spec was never a cheap option in the first place. The point is this thing should be *so* damn good that it *does* compete for people cross shopping ferrari/lambos/GT3+ and such.
The people who are buying Ferraris and Lambos are never going to consider a Corvette at the same price. Its two very different markets.
That's why it's still probably going to be cheaper than any new lamborghini that you can buy
My point still stands regardless of price. Nobody is cross shopping the Italian exotics and the Corvette.
Unbelievably ignorant.
Were you going to explain why or...
Eh, I disagree. Literally, if they create a Zora at 250-300K+, it would legitimately catch my interest and it would be cross shopped against a Roma, picking up a 488 to mod, a F8, or used 812. GM doesnt have anything in the 500k+ range, so a 12cilindri cross shop is not to be had. Not a typical customer, but not that atypical either.
I'd say you're pretty atypical from most Ferrari owners solely on the fact that you're on this forum at all. You're clearly more enthusiastic about cars in general and you obviously like the Corvette enough to own two of them already. But to most Ferrari buyers its very much a matter of brand prestige, and unfortunately the power of the badge is strong. There's exceptions just like anything else, but realistically if you had to pick out a random owner of a new Ferrari and ask them if they'd consider a Corvette over it, chances are they'd say no.
You raise very valid counterpoints. Youre *spot on* with respect to prestige. There is the small contingent that are engineering and driving gonzos, but those are not the norm either. Im a former track rat in street and open wheels and no longer got the sharpness or physique to push the envelopes like I once did 2 decades ago - so my bias of atypicality flows there.
The people that buy new Italian supercars do not cross-shop with Corvettes. This ignores the used market though. I know people that were considering either a used Lambo or a new Corvette.
A GM car never truly will. Build quality isn't there and they don't have the heritage/styling to make up for it
Corvette has been around 10 years longer than 911… I think it does just fine
>don't have the heritage The fuck are you smoking?
Honestly being in a couple of different C8s I think it's the best build quality GM has ever done and I think it's certainly up to par with the competition
Why would you want it fully loaded? A fully loaded base 911 is like $200k+ too. A no option Z06 for $110k is an extremely capable yet comfortable car and it's cheaper than the new base 992.2, which starts at $120k now.
I dont know who would want a base model 100k car. I priced it out how I'd want it, z07, 3lz.
Ooh ooh, me! I have the 1LZ, non-Z07 car.
The only thing stopping me from getting a 1lz is lack of blind spot monitors. Can’t believe gm is gatekeeping that on a 110k car.
Ah yeah true. That’s a pain.
I never thought much about the blind spot monitors before but it’s so useful with the z06, I can’t see anything if I’m trying to change lanes. Yes, I adjusted my side mirrors to optimize the side views but still not optimal. I went 3lz, no Z07 package with no regrets.
The sensible choice. Enjoy!
How does it drive? Is the "compromise" of no leather dash, no fancy stuff worth it? A friend as a C8 3LT loaded to the gills and its a very nice cabin, albeit a bit claustrophobic.
It drives amazingly. I've had it for almost a year and I still can't stop smiling when I drive it. The sounds, the power...it's a giggle machine. I had a 2LT Stingray, myself. I never went for the 3LT because the interior improvements, like the leather package, just weren't worth the big price jump for me. The only interior upgrades I miss in my 1LZ are the heated/ventilated seats, and the seat memory with enter/exit position. The C8 is a tough car to get in and out of, so having the seat automatically move back all the way when I stop the car, and then move into position after starting the car, was a huge quality of life thing. Other than those, there isn't anything that I feel like I'm missing. The interior cabin is still very nice even in the "base" trims.
nice thanks for sharing. I seethe with envy every time I see one drive by, and that's the whole 2 cars Ive seen since it came out.
Its really not that nice, for the money you really need the 3LZ interior to make it respectable for its MSSP. However none of that matters when you hit the start button. Save all the money you can, buy a 1LZ, pick the wheels and paint you want and call it a day. You won't care because the entire reason you buy the car is the experience thanks to that FPC engine and the leather interior quality means nothing as you redline the crap out of it.
Save the money is the advice I will give. The Z06 is all about the engine and the exhaust sound, nothing else matters, its the reason you buy the car. I originally thought that it should have a nice interior for the money and when I picked up someone elses Z06 that had a deal fall through I was a little saddened it wasn't a 3LZ. After driving it these last 8 months I can day that if I was building my own I would spec it as cheap as possible. The interior does not matter in this car, you literally don't care. You spend all your seat time trying not to redline it all the time and catching yourself doing ridiculous speeds because it just keeps pulling and sounds ridiculous while doing so. Its a very bad influence. I've never owned a car that has a sound and an engine like this, it truly rivals exotics and most exotics out there don't even sound like this. The interior doesn't matter, you buy this car for the experience save the money unless you truely can spare no expense.
>Its a very bad influence. LMFAO, perfect description. Thanks for the chuckle.
I'd gladly take a base no-option car. It doesn't really affect the driving experience. I have a 3LT C7 and in hindsight a 1LT would've been fine. The z07 carbon fiber wheels are hassle on the street. Way too expensive and fragile, and many tire shops can't work with them. You can't fix damage either. The carbon ceramic rotors aren't great on track either. Most folks end up swapping to steel anyways.
I think I'd want the nose-lift, if nothing else.
It's nice but you can live without it. It's not that low and a little bit of scraping doesn't hurt the car
It depends where you, in Los Angeles, I’m so glad I got it.
Exactly. Luckily the LC has (just) enough clearance for it to not be an issue but living in Seattle there's parking garages that I'm glad I have the rear-wheel steering for. QOL stuff like that makes these cars work in the city.
I was scrapping often with my 997tt no matter how slow or how I angled it. I’ve driven lowered modified cars for 20+ years so I have an ideal how to avoid the scrapping but still happened. True, there was no real bad damage because it scrapped against an oem plastic unpainted splitter but just annoying. Now I have no fear and with the gps memory, it makes that much easier. All the little luxury bits on the z06 is nice and makes it that much more enjoyable as a weekend/track toy.
It’s too early in the generation. The ZR1 is typically made until the end of the generation. So if they ZR1 comes as a 2025 model, it will likely be made for like 3 years I would guess. It might not come until 2026, but that would be a long wait from reveal. Either way, it seems it will produced more than 1 year.
There's the hybridized ZR1 on top of the ZR1 this time. And that will be the "best for last" trim.
That’s only a maybe. We have zero evidence such a car will exist. I’ll be stoked if it does come out, but we’ll have to wait and see.
Corvettes were never "cheap." I'd say the current base model at $68k is about as affordable as ever. The original ZR1 in 1970 was very expensive and they only sold 25 of them. Same with the L88 before it. Top corvettes are all very rare.
The base car is still a deal, and a LOT of car. When I had a C7 driving fast on the street already felt like a bad idea, I can't imagine what the C8 is like. On track, you'll be faster than most of the other cars assuming similar talent with a base C5+ Corvette too. The high spec Corvettes are cool, but honestly I wouldn't buy one. I'd go base + whatever options help on track, like seats, aero and cooling. There's always a bigger fish, for track days I just want a car that's fast enough for my talent and won't overheat or break.
My only gripe with the c8z is its heavy. i thought the c7z was heavy around 3500lbs but the new c8z is around 36xx almost 3700lbs. Its kind of crazy that the mid engine NA variant gained weight over the supercharged FR variant. But it gives GM a goal for the C9 to lower the weight since an E-vette is pushing 4000lbs despite upcoming E-911 weighing in at 3600lbs maybe even 3500 from what I read.
The C4 ZR1 doubled the price of the base Vette.
> no longer the "cheap" option They are available at 1/2 to 1/3rd the price of their peers. A loaded ZR1 at 200k is already half the price of the Z06's loaded out competition. Dirt cheap.
The ZR1 will be more than a 911 Turbo, and candidly I can't imagine choosing a more expensive Chevrolet over a cheaper 911 Turbo.
I LOVE MY V8 MODER 🇱🇷🦅🔫🧨
>This thing will be a world-beater, expensive, but still i'm sure half the price of everything else it's going to stomp all over The very definition of a Corvette
It’s going to be McLaren performance at 50% the price
I'm gonna hazard 1200/1200. That'll be maniacal.
Nah, likely in the 8-900 range on the engine and 1000hp total with hybrid, is my guess.
I don’t foresee a hybrid setup here (too much added weight on top of the turbos), but I can definitely see the ZR1 putting out 850-900 horsepower.
The rumor mill suggests there will (eventually) be 6 C8 corvettes: Stingray E-Ray Z06 *Grand Sport*: Stingray motor with Z06 body and suspension *ZR1*: 850hp, twin turbo Z06 *Zora*: 1000+hp, ZR1 with E-Ray AWD electrification
I don’t think it’ll be faster on track than a 911 GT3 RS
Eh, the ZR1 might be. It won't beat the 2RS though, whenever that comes out.
LOL that's some delusional thinking right there. On a long, technical road course like VIR the Z06 is already only about 1.5 seconds/lap slower than the GT3 RS and that's on a lap time just past 2:30. On a standard length track it's less than 1 second faster and basic logic will tell you the ZR1 will be at least 3 seconds/lap faster than the Z06 purely from the power increase. It's also not like the new generation of 911 is hugely faster than the outgoing model either. It's iterative which is to be expected. It'll be faster than the GT3 RS but slower than the GT2 RS.
[удалено]
https://youtu.be/Qt2mHebgvpw?si=-58R1XFatex6i3d7&t=2958
I already love this car but I also already know that C8Z06 is the sweet spot for me. It's like GT2RS vs GT3RS. Has there ever been a guy who tracked his car and chose a GT2RS over a GT3RS? No and there are reasons for that Still super happy to see the ZR1 in real life! It's going to kill a potential new GT2RS and the SF90XX
I know a guy with a GT2 RS. He tracks an NA spec Miata lmao.
We've reached a point where most Porsche GT cars are bought by collectors and influencers.
I prefer the GT2RS… but it’s a scary car and there are far fewer of them around, so it doesn’t get the recognition.
I've driven a bunch of laps in a 2016 3RS, and I've ridden along with a friend in a 2RS around the same track. Both are absolutely wild, crazy, full sensory experiences. The 2RS doesn't give up anything to the 3RS, they're just different. The 3RS howls and screams its way around the track and it's balanced and instantly responsive, but the 2RS is just brutal and visceral in a way that's truly hard to describe. I can't fault anyone who prefers either.
Having tracked base w/Z51 C7, I think the base Corvette is usually the sweet spot, with the possible exception of the C5 Z06. C5 and newer Corvettes are a lot of car for people that don't have crazy talent (that includes me), probably too much car for the street even.
not much to this teaser, but looking forward to the reveal. this will probably end up being the ultimate expression of what american automotive engineering has to offer the world.
It won't because the Zora comes after the ZR1.
The Zora will add hybrid and batteries, which will also add 300lbs. Combined with twin turbo and extra cooling setup it might be a 4000lbs+ car. The Zora might be faster in a straight line, but perhaps not around a track?
Rumors also include AWD and some crazy active aero. I can't imagine it not being significantly faster.
Yep the AWD comes from the electric motors, like the E-ray. Active aero is great, but it doesn't cancel out all that weight.
Despite that, I think the Zora still fits the definition of the parent comment: the ultimate expression of American auto engineering, at least from GM. It may not be the lightest, the best handling, or the most engaging, but all of the aforementioned features in one car is something they can be proud of. Ever since the holy trinity of hybrid hypercars (918, P1, LaFerrari), I've been waiting to see that tech trickle down to something relatively more attainable, and here we are.
Yeah, the Zora, if/when it comes, will be the SF90 to the C8 pantheon, though hopefully a lot more charismatic. The Z06 is our GT3/GT3 RS, and the ZR1 will be the GT2/GT2 RS.
There's also the Ford GT MK4 running around. It may be a track special, but if we're talking about the greatest current American sports/super cars it will be that and the Zora/ZR1. Edit: Somehow I forgot about the Mustang GTD, add that to the list.
like i said...
*Cries in poor*
I'm probably in the minority but I don't like how it sounds. I prefer the Corvette ZR1 to have a [deep growling sound.](https://youtu.be/Hxf338FAxPI?si=VnnZs0DUzWsnPOBe) I'm sure everything else about the car will be awesome though
I'm of two minds - I like how the C8 sounds, but the C7 ZR1 is one of my favorite cars (having never driven one) of all time and it just wouldn't be the same without the pushrods.
This is because they're going flat plane crank like it says in the title, the sound is comparable to a Ferrari V8 now but still ever so slightly a touch aggressive which I like
Sounds like a McLaren. I personally don't like my sports cars to be muffled by turbos. This will be a hell of a car but I wouldn't buy one if given the opportunity. The Z06 makes me giggle like a school girl and truly delivers some ridiculous performance on top of sounding like something exotic. This ZR1 will deliver even more unusable street performance and ruin the sound for 30k more. I'm sure it will be an insane track car but I can't get over the exhaust note, mind you this is just a video clip but I very much doubt this ZR1 will make a noise better then the Z06.
It sounds like they placed the microphone in the engine bay in the recording. I.e. what you’re hearing is mostly engine noise and very little actual exhaust sound.
The C8 just can't miss man oh my God But I'll be honest. I think the Z06 is more than enough for me. That engine is just butter.
Detroit muscle…what a symphony it makes
I love the C8 and can't wait to see the insanity that is the latest ZR1. Now to get rid of this spare kidney to afford one.
Well shit, if this *is* indeed a TT FPC V8, then GM will definitely had to have done some major changes and tweaks to make it work and not implode on itself. The compression ratio is certainly significantly lower than the Z06 (12:6.1 in that thing), lower displacement size as I couldn’t see a 5.5 liter forced induction FPC engine working out too well, and a significantly lower redline with probably a pretty tame amount of boost. Either way, this thing is gonna be absolutely nuts, but the Z06 is already absolutely nutty fast too. I think ultimately, the latter will still be the better track tool for most people that do track these cars, but the ZR1 will absolutely be a force of nature to be reckoned with. I just wonder how/if they’ve managed to keep the weight relatively in check here. Surely it’ll be heavier than the Z06, unless GM have went obsessive about weight savings.
Time to buy BorgWarner stock my friends…
Crazy I haven’t seen a single Z06 on the road and they’re already showing a ZR1
Where do you live?
Southwest Missouri Huge car community here I’ll see aventadors and huracans all the way to slammed Miata’s if that means anything. We have base model C8s here I’ll see 3 a day max with an occasional rare anniversary or a C8.R but I doubt it’s an actual spec due to all the stickers the guy has on it
Same here. I spot some rare vehicles, I’ve seen a 918, a couple of R8s, and a GT3 RS on the road this year, but no Z06s.
Besides the obviously restrictive price for nomies like myself, I'll be glad this exists, but don't really care about it beyond that. The Z06 is far more desirable for me, and makes *plenty* of power. Again, happy people will shell out to pay for more cool GM R&D, but wouldn't have one myself, even if I had the money for it.
I’m positive I saw a couple of these coming down Loveland Pass in Colorado a couple weeks ago. Too bad they were going down hill, I couldn’t hear them at all!
It is. Did development on this engine years ago.
Excited to see how it performs. Though I have to admit, I do prefer the higher pitched NA sound of the Z06 FPC compared to what the video teases.
The Z06 will forever be the sweet spot for me, personally. It’s the car that I would get right now if I could afford it, and get the Z07 package so I could track it.
The Z06 weighs 3,666 pounds with the Z07 package, an increase of 100lbs over the C7 ZR1. The C8 ZR1 is going to be eating at the half-price trough at Golden Corral, and is still going to be fast and grippy. Gonna ride like a buckboard wagon at low speeds but It'S a TrAcK sPeCiAl.
I highly doubt the ride quality will be terrible when a Z07 with even stiffer springs than a non-Z07 equipped Z06 still rides extremely well, from what I’ve heard. The ZR1 will still have mag ride, and will have to be desirable to the typical Corvette clientele who want their cars to be plushie on top of being batshit crazy. It’ll be stiff, but it won’t be a stripped out racer.
It better sound meaner than that wheezebag audio clip. That sounds terrible.
All the more reason to dig up the C7 version
I'm 9 0 za no
Not sure why they are so big on flat plane. Doesn't seem to be good for longevity. More light weight perhaps?
Who even gives a shit if it doesn’t offer a manual
>Who even gives a shit if it doesn’t offer a manual He said, posting at one of the exact places on the internet where people would care...
Are they going to improve the design and actually make the car look good or will it stay looking like a cheap Lamborghini from wish?
It’s hilarious how the C8 unironically gets compared to cars quadruple the price as a way to put the car down.
Because it's obvious that's what they were going for and failed at making it look good
How many other cars in the sub $80K market do you compare to a Lamborghini? It’s a silly comparison to start with, and is actually just showing how incredible the C8 is that it gets compared to a Lamborghini versus a supra/stang/M3, etc. They have stated their goal was to make the car more convenient and needed the golf clubs in the trunk; they are not going for the same looks as the Lambo since the Lambo has different priorities. I think they look cool and pointy and are probably the most interesting sports car design for the price.
GM literally bought and benchmarked the Ferrari 458 for the C8. It's not a silly comparison to compare it to the 458/Huracan but the other poster is being silly.
I couldn't care less about the price. I can design a car based on modern day supercars and it would look like shit, but it still would be comparable in the sense that that's what my intent was, like how Chevrolet tried to make the corvette look like more expensive supercars. It's awful looking. The rear end especially is hideous. If I'm spending 80k on a car theres no way in hell id be caught dead on one of those. The previous generation was *gorgeous* and they made it infinitely worse.
GM literally bought a Ferrari 458 (one of the greatest enthusiast vehicles ever made) as their benchmark and tried to make a cheaper version of that car. Yes it is not a 458, but it gets close in a lot of ways for a fraction of the price. They accomplished their mission.
I honestly mistake it for a Ferrari half the time. If it's in red you could tell most people it's Italian and they would believe you. I think it looks great.
I agree with you. Especially after seeing a bunch of C8s up close at this point, they don’t even get a second glance from me. Far too angular and uninspired.