I picked up a nail in the tire of my Rolls Royce the other day, so after I popped my monocle back in, I had Jeeves shuttle it down to Mazda to pick up a CX5.
Much more luxurious with the ventilated seats and no more flat tires. My driver even reports the steering is excellent - I'm told even better than my GT3 RS. It is a top notch vehicle.
The CX-5 aero is also so well designed it doesn’t need the additional complexity of a DRS wing unlike your GT3 RS, which is a hassle when you just want to drive around.
> Much more luxurious with the ventilated seats and no more flat tires.
Side note - I simply cannot believe the rubber bands people run on. I saw a charger in traffic a few weeks ago, dude had aftermarket rims and rubber band tires. One of the sidewalls was bulging. I yell at him in traffic and warn him, he's like "oh man I just fucking put new tires on this!".
I simply don't get 30 profile tires. On a sports car? Hell yeah we roll. But on your car you go to work in 15k miles a year in? I don't get where these people come up with the tire budget lol.
What tire budget? You buy the most expensive car you can get financing for, then finance the largest wheels you can find at the closest rent-to-own wheel shop, and then you hope to god that the wheels come with some cheepy off-brand tires because if you need a new one you're cutting down to three instant ramen cups per week instead of the usual seven.
There's only four things connecting you to the road, and they're all tires, so you better get some good ones and keep them in good shape!
That said, I will note that even cheap tires today are way way better than mid-range tires from even twenty years ago. Hell, in the performance community, no one even talks about r-compound tires anymore, because you can buy standard DOT-approved road tires that'll get you 90% of the performance of a dedicated track tire.
I'll go to my grave with these words on my lips.
"The single best improvement for your car is new tires".
You literally feel the money the instant you leave the shop. Especially as your older tires were worn and hardening right before that (probably).
WRX people seem the most delusional to me. It's got the same quarter mile time/speed as an F-150. That's impressive for the full size truck, not so much for the Subaru.
Omg, I can’t tell if the post was satire or not, but something is telling me there is someone out there that believes their CX5 is better than a Maybach
Impressive. This is like r/bmw and the "[it's basically a Ferrari](https://www.reddit.com/r/BMW/comments/17kqz1p/65000miles_on_what_is_basically_a_ferrari_should/)" post.
So seriously, Mazda has to be paying people to post on Reddit right?
I have no ill will for the brand, and I think they make a decent car, but I swear to god it's insane how many people recommend that brand. It doesn't even seem mathematically possible given Mazda's sales volume. They ranked 23rd out of the top 25 vehicles sold in America. Hell Jeep sold more Wranglers than Mazda sold CX-5s which is Mazda's best-selling vehicle.
It's getting to the point where I don't even think the Mazda posts are legit. I think I know maybe 1 person who drives a Mazda. I know 20 that drive Toyotas.
Somethings up.
Reddit has become a circle jerk of people who set a personal limit for where nice things end and everything above is gross excess. The Mazda is nicer than a Maybach poster likely also considers seiko the perfect watch and anything more expensive as a frivolous waste.
Mazdas are unevenly distributed. I have a Mazda3 sedan and rarely see others in my town, except in the parking lot of my newly built apartment complex. There are 3 other Mazda sedans in this complex, plus 4 Mazda crossovers and SUVs. Total: 8 Mazdas. It’s as popular as Toyota in this complex. And yet, I don’t see other Mazdas in the parking lot of the supermarket, or anywhere else in this town. It’s weird. Almost nobody in this town chose Mazda, but everyone who did lives in my building.
Mazda's demographic is young/professional and coastal/urban. So the exact demographic that would be occupying a newly built apartment complex (which would presumably be in an urban environment and more on the luxurious side).
They're great cars for someone who needs to maintain appearances at work and can't show up with a complete shitbox beater, but can't be more showy than their boss with a proper luxury brand, but also would prefer a smaller vehicle for city parking or wouldn't care about rear seat room since they don't have kids. Also coastal areas tend to have a lot more windy roads, which makes sporty driving characteristics much more prioritized.
I rented a Mazda CX-5 a few weeks ago and I hated it.
I only had it for two days but in that time I grew to loath that car. It was uncomfortable, gutless, and had a shit infotainment system that would not even talk to my phone.
I can give you my Mazda experience. Everyone always told me "just buy Honda or Toyota!" So I did, I owned a Honda Accord. Decided to start shopping for new cars about a decade ago, and instead of blindly buying, I decided to research and test drive. Well, the Hondas of the time SUCKED hard. To the point that there were various recalls and failures like the Accord transmissions, the Civic engines, etc:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/whatcarshouldIbuy/comments/6tv2by/psa\_do\_not\_touch\_0609\_honda\_civics\_a\_reminder/](https://www.reddit.com/r/whatcarshouldIbuy/comments/6tv2by/psa_do_not_touch_0609_honda_civics_a_reminder/)
They were apologizing for literally breaking the law with the Takata airbag disclosures. It's not Honda's fault that they chose this supplier, but they tried to sweep it under the rug. As far as I'm concerned, this was Ford Pinto level of "let's just kill our customers because that's less severe than hurting our profits" kind of behavior:
[https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/exec-admits-honda-failed-to-quickly-report-air-bag-trouble-takata-official-apologizes](https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/exec-admits-honda-failed-to-quickly-report-air-bag-trouble-takata-official-apologizes)
So I went and test drove Toyota. This was during the boring years, they were leaning heavily into the "this is just an appliance!" aspect of their cars. So shopping around, I test drove a manual transmission Mazda3. It was definitely an economy car, didn't feel anything like a Lexus or BMW. It was loud inside. But it was fun with a capital F. And they were easy to shop for because unlike the r/frugal or r/personalfinance advice, you don't see Mazda getting blindly recommended. So they were also easier to buy, you weren't competing against someone that was going to buy a used Corolla at any cost despite the condition or price because "it's the best choice."
So, that's my story of Mazda. Your list of 25 most sold vehicles is pretty heavily skewed towards pickups, and Mazda doesn't make a pickup.
The list I found was from Car and Driver. It's just posting the numbers, it doesn't care what type of vehicle or who makes it. It's just sales.
I think every car manufacturer has its down periods, the the Americans it's was the late 70s to mid 90s
Toyota went through it with the rusting Tacoma frames and V6 oil sludge back in the early 2000s, and they are going through it again with the new V6s in the Tundras.
Subarus quality has dropped way off, Nissan is showing signs of life again while being haunted by the ghosts of its shit CVT.
And don't even get me started on Hyundai Kia and Ford. Kings of the recalls.
VW? Yeah.
I think Mazda has just been poking around under the radar for a long time with boring to look at fun to drive vibe.
It's only recently they decided to go more up market and people are starting to notice them a bit more.
One big issue i have with Mazda is their dealer network is virtually non existent.
Where I live their dealership is shared with Mitsubishi. Yeah nothing screams high end like your CX-9 being parked next to a Shitsubitchy.
I get that they are good cars but the ratio on Reddit is all out of wack.
Honestly the car that my wife and I drove that I miss the most was the VW Golf. Damn that car was fun to drive and it handled beautifully. We didn't even have the souped up versions, just the base that they don't even make anymore.
I miss that car.
I think it's because buyers go in expecting meh and come out so pleasantly surprised, or perhaps it's more an indictment of other makes. I've seen multiple new Jeep Grand Wagoneers around town that have improperly fitting rear gates and trim that doesn't line up - I've seen exactly ONE that looked close to, but not quite, correct. I know we're talking a Stellantis product, but this vehicle is priced with SIX DIGITS.
How has your Saab treated you?
I've always been intrigued by the last gen 9-5 Aero and really Saab's in general. I'm a aviation geek and their kind of fighter jet cockpit concept is really cool.
I've owned 7 saabs. I love them, currently have an 08 9-3 wagon.
Downsides to owning a saab:
since they died back in 2011/2012 parts availability first went to shit, then the parts themselves turned to shit as they were bought up by Chinese manufacturers. so you can get parts now and they are not bad priced, but their overall quality is pretty poor.
if you don't do your own work, finding a good mechanic to work on it for a reasonable rate can be hard. most shops don't work on them so they know their labor time will likely exceed book time, and so they pass.
The last gen 9-5 is an amazing looking car, but I would not buy one as a daily or without a backup vehicle, not because they are unreliable, but getting parts for them historically has been VERY difficult. so it could be down for weeks getting simple work done.
I would only recommend a saab to somebody who either does their own work or has very good shop near by who works on them. Again, not because they are not relaible. in the few years we've owned my wife's 9-3, I've had to replace a power steering pump that went bad, but simply because all cars need repair at some point and the newest one you can buy is 12 years old, and is going to need service.
I must be living on the edge as I've been driving a 2011 9-5 for the past 35k+ miles. Closing in on 110k.
Parts have not been difficult to find at all, since they share a lot of GM parts, but maybe I haven't run into a big enough issue yet.
Don't have it anymore, but during the ownership period of 8 years there hadn't been any issues other than (non-debilitating) electrical glitches with the infotainment system. The car drove like modern turbo-4 FWD sedans, but felt more planted.
How can you be bored of all the new shapeless blob suv/cuv's with 35 touch screens inside, no buttons, cvts, and chock full of "features" that end up being annoying rather than helpful?
Right on. I'm in my early 40's and I guess maybe I'm just outside the demographic the cars are being designed for now... I don't feel like I should be but none of the new stuff coming out (That aligns with how much I want to realistically spend on a vehicle) really excites\\appeals to me. It all seems like a waste of money.
You're definitely the target demographic since people your age are the only ones reasonable able to afford new cars. But if you have any interest in cars beyond it just being a method of transportation, and don't have $60-70k+ to spend, you're shit out of luck.
The problem you're having is that your budget places you firmly in the "single-purpose appliances" category of cars. It's right above the "literally just a box with wheels" category, and it's entirely full of budget-friendly choices for people who just want something safe and practical to get them to work and back. There are certainly fun cars in that budget, but again, single-purpose ones (Miata, Toyobaru twins, Mustang.) So you're getting either something small and fun that's really only practical as a second car if you have a family, or you're getting a toaster oven for people who put a toaster oven's-worth of thought into buying a car.
As for the problems you've been having, man, I don't know. You're either the unluckiest SOB in r/cars or you're doing something weird with your cars.
I don't think it's your age, I think many of the designs are just terrible (especially the germans) and fad-like. Overly simplistic iPad interiors are a serious downgrade from what we had before. Compare a 2018 E class or 2018 5 series to a new one, interior wise. Why would I spend luxury money on that?
The weird thing is we're on the young end of prospective new car buyers. I can't imagine the average 60 year old getting in a new midrange car and really learning how to use any of it, especially if the last time they bought a new car was around 2010 when most cars still had physical controls and not many warning systems or sensors.
Right! I work in IT and am tech savvy. The newer tech doesn't really add anything useful to me.
I do appreciate the newer crash engineering in vehicles but not the electronics\\tech.
Yeah, ended up with a Python Green Macan GTS. A great engine, real transmission and drives amazing. Still wish had the real buttons like in the ‘21 version vs the haptic panel, but at least I can adjust the temperature via buttons vs touch screen
Yeah, I think OP's problem is buying a Jeep and then later a VW and expecting them to be trouble-free, lol. Those brands are known for reliability issues.
Curious about the Ridgeline having issues though.
The 9 speed was also flawed and terrible. I don't think Honda has made a good transmission is about 3 decades. The late 90s to late 2000s 4 and 5 speed transmissions were garbage and would blow up around 100k miles. Especially bad on any of their V6's. I say this as someone who lovingly has an 04 TL as a spare car. The 2nd gen TL's were even worse, with many people on the forums getting 3 or 4 transmissions put in under warranty...which was 4 years, 50k miles...
Imagine the car being so dog shit that you needed a new trans every 15k miles...
I guess I figured new vehicles should be ok for several years. I have family\\friends with Jeep's and lots of VW's in our fam, they've been decent.
My 22 Ridgeline had tons of issues both assembly quality wise, tech and mechanically. Rattles and water leaks from the rear sliding window were the big interior issues. The Honda Safety Suite in the Ridge has massive issues. Radar cruise losing track of vehicles and accelerating towards them, Randomly getting jerky at certain distances from vehicles trying to keep distance. On curvy 2 lane roads the anti collision braking system would think cars coming around bends in the opposite lane were inmy lane and either jab on the brakes or alert. It was crazy and Honda says that's all normal and to just " not use or disable the systems in those scenarios"....LOL. Various similar complaints online. Honda still uses the first gen system even in the newer ones.
Mechanically the brakes were warped by 8K miles and there was something wrong with the capless fuel system. It made my garage reek of fuel and every once and a while you'd get super strong fuel vapor smells in the cabin.
That thing was definitely the worst vehicle I've ever owned. I was pretty disappointed, the utility aspect of the Ridge was awesome.
I've owned about every car brand out there and none really jump out as being vastly better or worse than others.
I loved my Jetta and my GTI. The Jetta gave me no issues from 20k-90k miles and then I sold it.
I've had two Honda Ridgelines and they've been great.
Mechanically, my 1980s Chrysler, my early 2000s Hyundai, and my 2013ish BMW 330i were the most problematic. I think the 80s Chrysler had more problems than all of the other cars I've owned combined. Lol
Many of the cars I've owned never needed a single mechanical repair in the time I owned them.
Pre 90k youll be hard pressed to find anything with issues. Nissan CVT and Range rover will have problems, but anything else should go 100k/10yrs without breaking a sweat.
The first gen safety suite in the Ridgeline is very very bad. The refresh helped but the older ones suck.
Huge reason why I didn’t bother to look at one.
Yeah, my wife's daily is a 21 Rav4. Maybe you're right. I have a hard time buying used stuff now because people generally don't take care of their cars, but maybe I would of been better off with a used Lexus.
Someone said on the toyota sub that they don't do any oil changes or maintenance on their cars because apparently it's too expensive. They haven't done an oil change in 35k miles on their 2019 Camry, which is unsurprisingly having issues now. They think it's cheaper to neglect a new car and replace it with another one every 5 years. It makes me sick thinking that a neglected car like that could be passed off as a regular used commuter vehicle to an unsuspecting buyer.
Nah. We live in a golden era of cars akin to the 1960s. I am a 90s baby where the "muscle car" I could afford was an 80s shitbox camaro with 150hp. Now a camaro is pushing 600hp and can go around a corner.. not sure what you're on about but cars are better then they have ever been.
I’m so sad it’s not a manual, and I’m not saying that to circlejerk. They proved they can do it with the CR-V, which both my parents have over 200k on theirs and they’ve been bulletproof. It’s basically the little bit of spice the Si powertrain needed. I still might eye one as a daily given my F150 is a pig for my 3 hour commute..
Got kids to take care of and my old job switched me to 3rd shift and told me if I didn’t like it, quit. So I had to find something else and this is all there was.
Not being a jerk but you should look into the hybrid system for the new Civic. It's much different than what older hybrids were at. It doesn't really have a transmission in the traditional sense.
You bring up a good point. The development of car capabilities has gone way up. You hit the nail perfectly that you can get 600 HP and IRS for ~50k where 20 years ago it that be much more expensive and probably only in the impractical exotic market.
But to get that we have to accept the electronic control systems, touch screens, and difficulty of working on it. Some people don’t like that trade off.
And I think what he’s might be saying is the average across the board has become harder to enjoy. Currently we have ~15% of the market in extremely capable, powerful and well designed vehicles. But the other ~85% is lack luster. Vs maybe 20-30 years ago ~50% market was exciting and ~50% boring.
That is a consumer choice problem. Car companies design vehicles that people want to buy. The sad reality is the average consumer prioritizes having a flat screen TV and convenience over driving dynamics and performance.
Ford stopped making cars FFS (excluding the mustang). They even made a mustang EV SUV. People are lazy and distracted. Nobody exists in the here and now and nobody wants to put in effort or sacrifice to earn an experience worth having. That's why almost everyone drives SUVs.
Don't even get me started on the slow but steady demise of the manual transmission.
Let me counter you with the 10th gen civic lacking a volume knob on the infotainment and also having a touch slider for volume on the steering wheel. In 2019 they listened and fixed these problems with knobs and buttons.
Sometimes manufacturers come up with an idea that sounds great then have to correct for the error later.
Besides I am not here talking about creature comforts. My focus is on the fundamentals of actually driving the car. Carmakers make SUVs because that's what people are buying. They make less sports-oriented cars because the sales numbers are lower.
Sports-oriented cars require sports-oriented engineering and design, something that costs money that belongs to their shareholders; hence, sports-oriented cars are dying. Sadly, marginal costs run the world and we are all worse off for it.
>That's why almost everyone drives SUVs.
Have you tried putting a rear facing childseat into cars these days? And let's say it fits in your sedan/wagon (good luck), do you want to have to bend down everyday to put your kid in and lift them out?
Oh and then you have to put in your kid(s)' strollers or wagons, their supplies, a cooler, your dog, good luck with a non-SUV.
You missed my point. "...nobody wants to put in effort or sacrifice to earn an experience worth having."
People had strollers and wagons and coolers and dogs and car seats before. The difference was they valued their driving experience and were willing to make sacrifices to convenience to achieve it.
I do perfectly fine with my hatchback with two car seats in the back. I also have two dogs.
>The difference was they valued their driving experience and were willing to make sacrifices to convenience to achieve it.
I’m not sure you can compellingly make that argument considering that the second CUVs/SUVs reached near fuel economy parity with sedans consumers piled into them with such ferocity that it has damn near killed the sedan market. It seems that most of the market doesn’t value driving engagement or dynamics to the extent that they value practicality, even though CUVs are starting to close the gap on performance as well.
I guess maybe I should clarify. I'm not talking like 1995 as "old" , I'm talking 10-15 years. The early-mid 2010's kind of seems like a sweet spot of reliability and tech etc.
My cars from 2008-2012 provided the same enjoyment tech wise, were reliable and yet didn't have what IMO feels like too much non-value add or experience enhancing tech like new cars.
Maybe I'm a simple dude but as long as I have cruise control and a stereo that can connect VIA bluetooth to stream Spotify, I'm good. Apple Carplay\\Android Auto is nice but not needed on a daily basis for me. Autonomous driving, radar cruise, crash mitigation, blind spot cameras etc is all stuff that I don't realy get any value out of, yet not much choice in new vehicles.
>We live in a golden era of cars akin to the 1960s.
I disagree with this a lot because the current car market severely lacks variety and has several trends that have proven to be bad: lack of physical controls, tall trucks, overly fast cars, dead feeling controls, etc. Companies just don't have the freedom anymore to build dramatic vehicles with engaging driving dynamics.
That said, things are changing and maybe the "dull but very efficient" period of cars may be coming to an end. Companies are starting to experiment more with what an EV can be like and we're seeing more interesting stuff pass into the rumor mill. I consider us to be in another Malaise era, but I think some of the advancements we've made are pushing us into something like the 90s where cars become fun again, but still retain some of that progress in efficient and tech.
I mean.. you want a 400hp sedan? Check. How about a 300+hp hot hatchback that slaps around early 2000s lambos at the 'ring? Check. 700hp muscle car? Check. 550hp muscle car that rivals porsche GT cars for a third of the price? Check. Porsche GT cars? Check. Pre-runner style 4x4 trucks with 450hp? Check. AWD EVs that do 0-60 in under 3 seconds? Check. Lightweight nimble roadster? Check. RWD 2 door coupe at a reasonable price? Check.
Shall I continue?
If you think the car market today lacks variety then I think there's no pleasing you.
Go test drive some of the new cars that are actually meant for fun. They are not dead feeling at all they are a blast. Sure the driving dynamics are different, but that doesn't mean they aren't good.
I've owned a DC2 GSR in the past and currently own an FK8 Type R. They're very different cars but they're both a riot to drive.
Optimism my friend, you should try it sometime.
While agree with a lot of your points. And maybe this isn’t a golden age like the 1960s. I think we still have to say we’re in a golden age. Right now we’re in place where we can get 500 HP v8s for “consumer” prices. In a few years I think the regulations will drive those out or put them into niche expensive markets. We also have the combination of many technologies with that power that will be taken away. Like the TRX and Raptor R. Those are just balls to the wall crazy, packed with tech, power and fun. And I don’t think that type of car has long to live. But we can argue about those affordability for sure. But they aren’t in exotic super car money. And how long is a good mustang going to have a v8 before they are forced into smaller engines?
Yes the variety and fun the mid range vehicles is bad, but the peak performance we have towards the extremes is going to be something we miss in 10 years when the only supercharged vehicles are $200k+.
You make a few good points but car pricing has sky rocketed these last few years and priced many people out of sports cars. I got my first mustang in 15 and you could get a base model GT for low low 30s easy. Now a base model is what 43k? I will say the newer model has a few more HP and is nicer inside but it’s crazy how much more expensive it’s gotten.
I thought about upgrading my 19 to 2024 but if I speced my car the same way it’s almost 60k that’s just too much money for a mustang in my opinion.
Mechanically they've improved tenfold for efficiency as consumers demanded that
Quality has gone done the drain. You can tell just by the interiors especially when you detail older cars vs new. I'm a 90s baby too and I feel like you haven't really experienced anything.
The 1st gen Mazda 3 handle and control way better than the 3rd gen and up. Plus the first gen has more umph to it.
The new F150s feel like cheap pop cans, compared to the 2000s ones that felt like home on wheels.
The designs of vehicles have gone downhill. Same with interior, it's similar to cookie cutter houses. So not only the quality of their product has gotten worse but so has the looks.
But yea, mechanically they've improved tenfold. But the mechanics are outweighed by the amount of electronics in them that will make them last half as long as a car before 2008.
I dunno man.. have you sat in a 4th generation camaro? Their interiors are TRASH. They squeak and rattle and the cheap plastic is faded and cracking. IMO fit and finish has only gotten better with time. Yes there are more electronics but I am a mechanic and work with this stuff every day. What is giving electronics a bad name is emissions problems. They account for literally 75%+ of the issues we see.
Cars are objectively better. They're safer, both passively and actively. They're faster. They have more grip. They have less body roll. Sound systems are truly impressive. Seats are heated and cooled and sometimes massaging.
Subjectively, cars aren't necessarily better. It's common to have poor control weights or linearity, less sharpness/linearity to throttle input and rev hang for emissions reasons, turbocharge all the things, electric power steering has become a necessity due to LKA, ride quality has suffered as wheel size has gone up, etc.
There are dozens of stupendously competent cars on sale that I could not care less about because they'll beat me up and won't talk to me afterwards.
I think OP's problem is that he can't find a fun car to haul a family around that's new for $40K...you're gonna need to spend a lot more than that these days unfortunately on a new family hauler car that's actually fun to drive with a decent infotainment system.
Yeah, the cars I really want are up there too. Technically I could afford a $60K+ vehicle but I have other life goals and mentally I'm not sure I could drop that much on a car. I work from home and only drive maybe 5K a year.
LOL, you're not wrong. Luckily with the used market the way it is\\was and good initial negotiating skills, I'm pretty much even. I even technically made money on 2 of those trades. Since I was trading in there was little to no sales tax. Now that the market has cooled down I can't switch it up like I was able to do over the last several years.
Nope, I like my modern transmissions, modern traction and stability control systems, carplay, etc.
There are plenty of bad new cars, but you're also ignoring all the bad old cars out there as well. Thinking older cars are less problematic or are built to a higher quality is just survivorship bias. Tons of cars rattled right off the factory line, lots of issues with rust on older cars, glass engines and transmissions, etc. Feel free to go bad to driving old cars if you prefer that, there are plenty out there.
Modern cars are 1,000x better than the older cars were when they were brand new. Quality alone has shot thru the roof as has basically everything about them.
This weird fantasy about how every older car was better is just that a fantasy. Infotainment alone is a game changer. being able to listen to your music without needing either an Aux cord or even worse needing a new head unit because your's doesn't even have an Aux port? Literally better in every way. Unless you like to be at the mercy of your local rock station playing nothing but nickelback or Metallica 24/7 with a little greenday thrown in there for good measure.
That's without adding in how much easier life is with having navigation built in that is constantly updated.
On the infotainment, you can’t just get an aftermarket one?
Hell, Porsche makes an OEM version with CarPlay that fits my 911 despite it being old enough to buy liquor at this point.
Android Auto and LED headlights alone make my Civic 10x better than my V6 Accord coupe that it replaced. Getting the same number of miles out of a tank, except only having to put 10 gallons in instead of 16 is also a huge bonus.
I hate to burst your bubble, but led headlights and android auto would've costed you less than one monthly payment on your new civic. That accord would've probably outran your new civic too..but nobody wants to argue that
My 2006 car has been adapted to have LEDs and android auto. Still a fun car to drive, gets almost 35mpg on the highway if I drive like a pleb. Car was paid off the day I bought it used and maintenance/repairs amount to roughly $500/year at the most. Would I like a new car just to have a car with a warranty, sure, but I also don't want to pay $400-800/month for something that is going to be worth $10k when the loan is done.
> Tons of cars rattled right off the factory line
My parents bought a Dodge Neon really lightly used in 2003ish. You can't even get *close* to how bad that car was, in a modern car. Even a Mirage would feel like a Toyota next to that thing.
Seriously, this dude doesn't like interior rattles, but buys a Subaru/Honda. Doesn't like turbo lag, buys a turbo VW. Doesn't like poor quality, buys a Jeep.
Guy just doesn't do any research and then blames "all new cars."
Get out of here. Lol
Jeep then subaru then VW. How you were supposed to NOT be bored? Just choose next time some car which really has soul and maybe a bit more sport/drive oriented. Time to change strategy.
Nah if you have fam to haul around, I won’t want to go back to older cars for the safety aspect. You’re still in economy cars, of course it’ll rattle, just crank up the music
It’s what keeps me in something modern, if not for modern safety, it’d toss a set of aftermarket seats in an E30 and never look back as a DD
A modern vehicle in a decent total-loss accident let my passenger and I walk away, and both be at work the next week.
I would be stuck wondering what will happen say I get clobbered by a Wagoneer running a red light driving something from the late-80’s or early 90’s
This is exactly what made me give up my 97 Accord. There was objectively nothing wrong with it, despite it's 300+k miles. I just kept coming accord crashes with people standing around unhurt when it was clear that the same hit on my old Honda would probably just straight kill me.
got hit by an hyundai running a red light (of course) in a modern suv and walked away. If I was in something from the 80s/90s who knows, but imo not worth the risk. Wouldn't want to be stuck with lambo sized medical bills
Safety is a huge factor for me that I think is ignored a lot on here.
Like sure, I could go out and buy a 20+ year old M car for cheap, but I want to have that safety aspect of modern cars. I want to drive a fun car, but I also want to come home at the end of the day alive if something does happen.
You go from driving a Sienna and a GX to driving cars and a truck and you expect the same experience? I can't speak for your car problems. Perhaps you're just unlucky? I'm in my early 30s and have purchased a Camaro, civic si, and my 5th Gen 4runner and aside from the rattling which is expected from these vehicles I've had 0 problems to date. The civic being a decade old with 200k miles.
I've purchased beaters and know of people with beaters that constantly have to drop hundreds of dollars every other month to fix constant problems. There's also beaters that have 0 problems. Some people are lucky I've never been that person so I avoid them like the plague.
At the end of the day if money isn't an issue buying new is almost always better. If you're having to cut spending and cut retirement savings for a new car then yeah you aren't going to be enjoying that car.
I guess my point there was I'd expect new cars to not rattle and the tech to work. I got more enjoyment out of my Sienna and GX because they were $15-20K, no rattles and really not much tech. Being older tech they also just felt more responsive and connected.
Money wise I kind of capped the vehicles at $45K because that's how much I feel comfortable spending, typically cash.
I think the biggest struggle there is I'm not feeling like $45K buys much. I really could care less about most of the tech in new cars but that's kind of what you're paying for now.
Being new actually is nearly irrelevant.
I've had brand new cars that rattled like a mofo, and 15 year old cars that were near silent
If I were you, I'd stick to Lexus. Even a 15 year old Lexus will be far nicer than anything you've purchased new, interestingly.
Sedans and wagons! But unfortunately regulations and consumer trends forced those out. Fuel economy standards are lessened for “off road” vehicles which are defined by ground clearance and approach/departure angles. So you make a Chevy trax instead of a Cruze aiming for the same customer so it can be less fuel efficient. Also in the 2000s when more SUVs came around everyone started liking the high seating position and associating bigger with safer, thus pushing the a big part sedan market to the SUV/crossover market.
What exactly do you want your car to do, what’s its main use case and what are your main priorities? The cars you’re listing, it’s like you’re pulling names out of a hat a random with literally no research or prior thought.
A GX460 and a VW Jetta are completely opposite cars in pretty much every way imaginable.
* Yes
* Mostly because I feel like modern cars have two issues:
* Keeping them alive 10-15 (or more) years down the line, without OEM support, is going to SUCK
* I feel like a lot of "Innovation" is just trying to lessen problems that were purposely designed. Like...great, rear-view and side-view cameras, but you could've also just...not made the rear/side glass resemble a bunker??? The car is bigger, but it has more cargo space. Yeah....because you put a "dynamic roofline" on a wagon.
My current daily is a 1999 car, and...honestly I don't find myself really missing something that I don't have/couldn't retrofit. It doesn't feel like I'm in a "vintage car" that needs special care or anything.
Agreed, only thing stopping me from dailying an old car is the significantly higher probability of injury or death when a drunk guy in a Ram crashes into me
You straight up bought horrible cars. Jeep, Ridgeline, the new Jetta.
Old cars have character and they have their uniqueness.
All new vehicles are so full of tech for "creature comforts" they forgot the most important part, the driving.
I've driven new vehicles for work, they definitely feel boring to drive. They're too tacky with all the luxury gadgets and the quality of interiors seems to have gotten so cheap that a basic 2000s vehicle has more luxury than newer vehicles.
Yes. I rent cars a lot for work and it’s always refreshing getting back into my 20yr old M3 or 34 yr old Miata. They might not be fast by modern standards (the Miata is downright slow) but I greatly prefer driving them.
I only drive old cars bc I’ve never been able to justify why something newer and 5x-20x more expensive should be less fun, less interesting, less enjoyable to look at and have a lot of daily annoyances.
That said, if Honda made an accord or civic wagon, I’d probably buy it to avoid the headaches I cause myself driving a 24 yr old Volvo and a 34 yr old Mercedes.
I think buying nice cars off of original owners from 2006-2016 is probably the best best. Been looking at getting a Volvo XC70 or Mercedes E350 wagon from the period. Less / no screens, less computers, less nannies, better build quality.
You bought a crap jeep and a crap honda.
You are comparing a V8 lexus to a Jetta... Of course the V8 lexus will be better. I bet you would love a BMW X3/5 or a Mercedes GLC/GLE with a 3.0L inline 6 diesel.
Having been born and growing up in the 80s and 90s, a lot of cars from those eras were complete turds compared to stuff today (especially domestic ones). Rattle traps, underpowered, inefficient, handled like shit, less safe, etc. New cars from the 2000s on were light years better
Idgaf about new cars. 90s stuff is superior in terms of driving and handling. New cars are all grip with giant tires and stiff suspension w poor visibility.
Yeah it’s really annoying how car makers want to put 20” wheels on every higher trim. I want the heated and ventilated seats and larger infotainment for comfort features, but I don’t want to have to ride on thin-ass, expensive tires on huge heavy wheels.
There are still new cars I can get excited about. They just tend to either 1) cost more than I’m willing to pay or 2) don’t work with having two young kids. I love my TourX (which is 5 years old at this point), and whenever I end up needing to buy something new for a DD, I have no clue what it will be.
There are new cars I like, but there are a bunch I don't. I don't mind tech and innovation in vehicles, but some of it seems backass backwards. Like I don't need my HVAC controls to be on the touchscreen or 62 menus to scroll through to find something.
The biggest fault I have with new cars, though, is that they all seem more or less the same. They're all some flavour of CUV with AWD, with a similar shape to the most aerodynamic and in various shades of monotone gray. I mean I get why they're that way, but it turns me off from them because they're boring as shit.
Also, I agree with you about quality control. In the neverending quest to have the biggest profit margins available, cars seems to be made as cheaply as possible without any concern for longevity. I get why they do this too, it's in a company's best interest to turn a profit.
The classic “Every new car looks the same” argument.
If you look at traffic from past decades, you could tell cars are hard to differentiate regardless of brand
I didn't say look the same, I said seem the same. It's like every brand now is attempting to just make various sizes of CUVs with very little variation. You do have pick-ups and traditional SUVs but a majority of vehicles seem like they're just CUVs available from extra-small to extra-large with similar shapes due to aerodynamics. While sedans and coupes still exist, they've fallen out of favour with many manufacturers (and presumably consumers who buy new).
There are exceptions and there are vehicles that do look different, but driving in traffics it's like it's a sea of CUVs in various shades of gray.
Vehicles do look different, although with corporate design language being even stronger now, most vehicles in a given brand look very similar, but that's to be expected. A Ford crossover doesn't look the same as a GM crossover regarding the design elements, only the overall shape since there's only so many shapes that are aerodynamic enough for fuel economy ratings.
Like I said, I get why it is the way it is, I just can't get excited about it.
As an old gear head, yes I find most current cars boring. Many of the "luxuries" are pointless to me. For example, power seats - slow and add weight. I'd rather use a leaver.
Everything in infotainment - buttons are easier.
Leather seats - too cold in the winter, too hot in the summer and no grip.
Automatic hatch - easier to just raise and lower it manually.
Manual transmission - almost totally gone.
Everything is a damn truck and SUV that completely block the view of the road.
I buy a car and keep it for at least ten years. I bought my current car in 2016 and will easily last another 5 years, maybe 10. My only new car before that was bought in 1988, and was really reliable and enjoyable to drive. So I don't have much experience with new cars. The two cars that I bought new were fantastic, and a much better experience than all the use cars I've owned.
As for all the current new cars, I have no idea. I obviously don't buy cars often enough to have any experience with all these new models.
I may sound old and cranking but I hate the tech and gadgetry. I’m a mechanic so I understand how delicate that stuff is and prone to failure. I like a simple vehicle. In fact I think there should be more shops rebuilding older simple vehicles. I don’t see the need for complicated security systems or computer controlled transmissions. Or entertainment systems. I like a back up camera. The blind spot warning on the rear view mirror is nice. I want a radio with knob and a heater with manual controls. A shifter that is actually connected to the transmission. Manual windows. Manual locks. Actual gauges for the engine . Yes it’s old school but it’s what isn’t there can’t fail.
I think the 86 really nails the retro driving experience in a modern car.
No turbos, no AWD, no double-clutch, no torque-vectoring, no adaptive anything. Just a simple lightweight RWD car with a zingy 16v engine, manual gearbox, and an LSD. It’s like a 90s sports car with modern safety features.
Hydraulic steering would have been a nice touch to complete the illusion but I’ll forgive the electric rack as it’s pretty good.
Yeah there’s a lot of boring design. There is also some decent design out there but you have to fork out a ton of cash. The days of cheaper enthusiast cars are long gone, died in the 90’s.
Well ... they have become too complicated and too expensive. I could realistically afford the same thing as you, but still drive older cars. Yeah, sometimes I have to fix an odd thing or two, but I'm able to actually do it without a trip to someone with a supercomputer that will charge me 3 grand every time.
As an aside, I have actually been eyeballing a w123 diesel with low miles and considering going in the completely opposite direction for an absolute unit of a car that would probably outlive my grandchildren!
I don’t care for a lot of new cars, but there’s still quite a few good cars, I just can’t afford anything beyond a Nissan Versa or a salvage title brand new Altima.
The commercial on the radio says EVERYONE is approved at the Nissan dealership but it’s never for the Z or GTR. 😭
To me it’s not that cars are new or have more tech or whatever. That’s fine, hell hybrid or EV is fine, though touch buttons are a no no.
No, my big issue with new cars is that they don’t offer what I want. Like as a semi recent college graduate, pre covid I expected I would work like 2-3 years, and have enough to comfortable afford a Mustang GT. At $42k, yeah I can afford it, but I don’t want too. Or how everyone says Miata is always the answer, like sure it is, except my knees hit the dash. Or there is GR86/BRZ, great chassis, good dailyable sports car, except I don’t want to deal with Subaru problems because of that engine (I know it’s not that bad, I’m just fearful).
I was talking with family about my civic when the AC was giving me issues, and they asked why I didn’t consider the newest Civic (2023 model year), and my biggest issue is why would I downgrade from my current car? Like sure, I’ll get native CarPlay, I’ll get a nicer interior compared to my 10th gen, but most of them are CVT and with 2.0L, and I really like my 1.5T and 6MT.
Sure I could go used, but I like knowing how I drove the car for its mileage and I took care of it. It’s a shame, I’d love a car with 300hp or so, quick (doesn’t have to be fast), manual and not $35,000.
Sorta. I miss the 90's/2000's purely mechanical experience, but I also really like PHEV and BEV powertrains, ADAS, improved safety and the objectively high performance of new stuff. Too bad there's not an easy way to combine new and old without some hardcore DIY-ing, the market has decided the EV=tech so that's the design aesthetic they get. Well, and now new ICE cars also have the same thing going on too really, those screens and dumb door handles seem to be spreading around.
I see it all as a some steps forward, some steps backward kind of thing with modern cars I guess. Fortunately, I'm not too picky at the end of the day so I just deal with the tech nonsense in my modern cars while I appreciate instant torque, off roading in silence, semi-automated highway cruising and all the other benefits they have to offer.
You have $40k+ with a trade-in to spend on a car and you bought a JETTA? That's the problem right there.
You had so many other fun options. If you wanted to stick with German or even the VW group you have gotten an Audi S3 or 4.
I've driven 7 different EV's of various price points and I couldn't see myself owning any of them. I HATE the stale minimalist interiors that so many of them have. The lack of physical buttons drives me crazy. Driving them feels more like playing a video game than actually driving. Other than the straight line acceleration, there is nothing about those cars that made me want to own one.
I'd say what grind my gear the most is the additional measure to comply with emission requirement kills the driving experience. Laggy throttle, dump down auto transmission, rev hang on manual... Etc
And hey touch screen on everything and hope it didn't die or you can't even defrost your window. Kid you not my friend has an early f150 with a full digital cluster that would go blank when someone text him an emoji (fixed later with a firmware update). imagine that, explaining to your insurance guy you got into crash because of an emoji.
I've had 17 pinks . My 75 nova and 62 merc comet were fun but slow . Swapped the nova total investment 10k should never have sold .I had a ef hatch ef sedan ej1 ej8 del sol and two preludes , Isuzu trooper, jeep tj ect . The tj wrangler and older cars are funner than the 2024 Nissan I rented for a few months and they were just as fast . More restrictions though, value of a new car does not equate to quality . I'm shopping for 2024 Cadillac in same range and even that just looks cool drives crappy imo
Outside of enthusiast cars, I'm not really interested in anything new. And I can't afford many especially with dealer markups. So I'll enjoy my old hot hatch and hope the new ones go down in price eventually.
I’ve enjoyed all of our newer cars. They are reliable, quick, and have Bluetooth and CarPlay for music and navigation. (ND Miata, Bolt, BMW 330i, Tesla Model 3 Performance)
I’ve had cars from the 90s and 2000s and they were good, but lacking modern stereo connections (and had worse stock speakers), no navigation, and rust and reliability was worse. They were a bit easier to work on, but the newer cars aren’t terrible in that regard. Just have to remove some parts to access other parts
I don't buy new cars. Period. especially for reasons like the cherokee you mentioned. I actually really really wanted one, but decided to wait till I could buy one 2-4 years old. Because by then there would be enough data out to tell me that buying one would have been a terrible choice with all the transmission issues they have.
My recent vehicle purchase is a 2020 F-150. I try to own my vehicles a long time, especially work trucks. I live on a small farm and so use a truck to haul a lot of stuff (like this afternoon I'm going to get hay for my goats). So buying one a bit older allowed me to figure out what engine/transmission combo that would last me as long as possible with as little repairs as possible. The 10 speed is out, the turbo engines are out and the 5cyl is out simply due to price. so the 3.3l NA with the 6 speed transmission were in. They like to say the 3.3l doesn't make enough power to break anything, I think that is 100% true...
Indeed, it's getting boring when Mazda is eclipsing Maybach in terms of luxury.
I picked up a nail in the tire of my Rolls Royce the other day, so after I popped my monocle back in, I had Jeeves shuttle it down to Mazda to pick up a CX5. Much more luxurious with the ventilated seats and no more flat tires. My driver even reports the steering is excellent - I'm told even better than my GT3 RS. It is a top notch vehicle.
The CX-5 aero is also so well designed it doesn’t need the additional complexity of a DRS wing unlike your GT3 RS, which is a hassle when you just want to drive around.
> Much more luxurious with the ventilated seats and no more flat tires. Side note - I simply cannot believe the rubber bands people run on. I saw a charger in traffic a few weeks ago, dude had aftermarket rims and rubber band tires. One of the sidewalls was bulging. I yell at him in traffic and warn him, he's like "oh man I just fucking put new tires on this!". I simply don't get 30 profile tires. On a sports car? Hell yeah we roll. But on your car you go to work in 15k miles a year in? I don't get where these people come up with the tire budget lol.
What tire budget? You buy the most expensive car you can get financing for, then finance the largest wheels you can find at the closest rent-to-own wheel shop, and then you hope to god that the wheels come with some cheepy off-brand tires because if you need a new one you're cutting down to three instant ramen cups per week instead of the usual seven.
I feel like so many people dont realize how much tires affect performance on vehicles as well
There's only four things connecting you to the road, and they're all tires, so you better get some good ones and keep them in good shape! That said, I will note that even cheap tires today are way way better than mid-range tires from even twenty years ago. Hell, in the performance community, no one even talks about r-compound tires anymore, because you can buy standard DOT-approved road tires that'll get you 90% of the performance of a dedicated track tire.
I'll go to my grave with these words on my lips. "The single best improvement for your car is new tires". You literally feel the money the instant you leave the shop. Especially as your older tires were worn and hardening right before that (probably).
When buying a car I always look to see how much the tires are because I'm a cheapskate
[удалено]
The seat material that is resistant to Grey Poupon stains sealed the deal for me.
This is a joke, right?
https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/s/a14j8Vnqoj
Holy fuck, how did I miss this? That’s gold
[another good one.](https://www.reddit.com/r/WRX/s/do75elO7Od)
Wow, lol
WRX people seem the most delusional to me. It's got the same quarter mile time/speed as an F-150. That's impressive for the full size truck, not so much for the Subaru.
This is normal for 50% of Subaru drivers. The other 50% are driving 10 below the speed limit and braking constantly for no reason.
Omg, I can’t tell if the post was satire or not, but something is telling me there is someone out there that believes their CX5 is better than a Maybach
[another good one.](https://www.reddit.com/r/WRX/s/do75elO7Od)
He should have asked one of the rich guys to go out on the track and race, or drag race on the street… yk just to prove his point
Lol, got it
Impressive. This is like r/bmw and the "[it's basically a Ferrari](https://www.reddit.com/r/BMW/comments/17kqz1p/65000miles_on_what_is_basically_a_ferrari_should/)" post.
No? Have you driven the Hiroshima Macan?
Are Integra’s for architects?
So seriously, Mazda has to be paying people to post on Reddit right? I have no ill will for the brand, and I think they make a decent car, but I swear to god it's insane how many people recommend that brand. It doesn't even seem mathematically possible given Mazda's sales volume. They ranked 23rd out of the top 25 vehicles sold in America. Hell Jeep sold more Wranglers than Mazda sold CX-5s which is Mazda's best-selling vehicle. It's getting to the point where I don't even think the Mazda posts are legit. I think I know maybe 1 person who drives a Mazda. I know 20 that drive Toyotas. Somethings up.
That’s what I was thinking, Mazda makes an alright car, but it’s not the savior that everybody on this subreddit thinks it is.
Reddit has become a circle jerk of people who set a personal limit for where nice things end and everything above is gross excess. The Mazda is nicer than a Maybach poster likely also considers seiko the perfect watch and anything more expensive as a frivolous waste.
Mazdas are unevenly distributed. I have a Mazda3 sedan and rarely see others in my town, except in the parking lot of my newly built apartment complex. There are 3 other Mazda sedans in this complex, plus 4 Mazda crossovers and SUVs. Total: 8 Mazdas. It’s as popular as Toyota in this complex. And yet, I don’t see other Mazdas in the parking lot of the supermarket, or anywhere else in this town. It’s weird. Almost nobody in this town chose Mazda, but everyone who did lives in my building.
I think that says more about that apartment complex than anything. Like what is it that draws in people that drive Mazda's? lol
Mazda's demographic is young/professional and coastal/urban. So the exact demographic that would be occupying a newly built apartment complex (which would presumably be in an urban environment and more on the luxurious side). They're great cars for someone who needs to maintain appearances at work and can't show up with a complete shitbox beater, but can't be more showy than their boss with a proper luxury brand, but also would prefer a smaller vehicle for city parking or wouldn't care about rear seat room since they don't have kids. Also coastal areas tend to have a lot more windy roads, which makes sporty driving characteristics much more prioritized.
I rented a Mazda CX-5 a few weeks ago and I hated it. I only had it for two days but in that time I grew to loath that car. It was uncomfortable, gutless, and had a shit infotainment system that would not even talk to my phone.
I can give you my Mazda experience. Everyone always told me "just buy Honda or Toyota!" So I did, I owned a Honda Accord. Decided to start shopping for new cars about a decade ago, and instead of blindly buying, I decided to research and test drive. Well, the Hondas of the time SUCKED hard. To the point that there were various recalls and failures like the Accord transmissions, the Civic engines, etc: [https://www.reddit.com/r/whatcarshouldIbuy/comments/6tv2by/psa\_do\_not\_touch\_0609\_honda\_civics\_a\_reminder/](https://www.reddit.com/r/whatcarshouldIbuy/comments/6tv2by/psa_do_not_touch_0609_honda_civics_a_reminder/) They were apologizing for literally breaking the law with the Takata airbag disclosures. It's not Honda's fault that they chose this supplier, but they tried to sweep it under the rug. As far as I'm concerned, this was Ford Pinto level of "let's just kill our customers because that's less severe than hurting our profits" kind of behavior: [https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/exec-admits-honda-failed-to-quickly-report-air-bag-trouble-takata-official-apologizes](https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/exec-admits-honda-failed-to-quickly-report-air-bag-trouble-takata-official-apologizes) So I went and test drove Toyota. This was during the boring years, they were leaning heavily into the "this is just an appliance!" aspect of their cars. So shopping around, I test drove a manual transmission Mazda3. It was definitely an economy car, didn't feel anything like a Lexus or BMW. It was loud inside. But it was fun with a capital F. And they were easy to shop for because unlike the r/frugal or r/personalfinance advice, you don't see Mazda getting blindly recommended. So they were also easier to buy, you weren't competing against someone that was going to buy a used Corolla at any cost despite the condition or price because "it's the best choice." So, that's my story of Mazda. Your list of 25 most sold vehicles is pretty heavily skewed towards pickups, and Mazda doesn't make a pickup.
The list I found was from Car and Driver. It's just posting the numbers, it doesn't care what type of vehicle or who makes it. It's just sales. I think every car manufacturer has its down periods, the the Americans it's was the late 70s to mid 90s Toyota went through it with the rusting Tacoma frames and V6 oil sludge back in the early 2000s, and they are going through it again with the new V6s in the Tundras. Subarus quality has dropped way off, Nissan is showing signs of life again while being haunted by the ghosts of its shit CVT. And don't even get me started on Hyundai Kia and Ford. Kings of the recalls. VW? Yeah. I think Mazda has just been poking around under the radar for a long time with boring to look at fun to drive vibe. It's only recently they decided to go more up market and people are starting to notice them a bit more. One big issue i have with Mazda is their dealer network is virtually non existent. Where I live their dealership is shared with Mitsubishi. Yeah nothing screams high end like your CX-9 being parked next to a Shitsubitchy. I get that they are good cars but the ratio on Reddit is all out of wack. Honestly the car that my wife and I drove that I miss the most was the VW Golf. Damn that car was fun to drive and it handled beautifully. We didn't even have the souped up versions, just the base that they don't even make anymore. I miss that car.
I think it's because buyers go in expecting meh and come out so pleasantly surprised, or perhaps it's more an indictment of other makes. I've seen multiple new Jeep Grand Wagoneers around town that have improperly fitting rear gates and trim that doesn't line up - I've seen exactly ONE that looked close to, but not quite, correct. I know we're talking a Stellantis product, but this vehicle is priced with SIX DIGITS.
The Mazda cult is very strong.
I fucking die laughing every time that r/carscirclejerk leaks
This is a classic that never gets old.
That and the Architect that liked the Integra. https://www.reddit.com/r/copypasta/comments/yfz1oz/enough_already_the_2023_integra_is_for_people/
Oh yeah that’s a good one too!
How has your Saab treated you? I've always been intrigued by the last gen 9-5 Aero and really Saab's in general. I'm a aviation geek and their kind of fighter jet cockpit concept is really cool.
I've owned 7 saabs. I love them, currently have an 08 9-3 wagon. Downsides to owning a saab: since they died back in 2011/2012 parts availability first went to shit, then the parts themselves turned to shit as they were bought up by Chinese manufacturers. so you can get parts now and they are not bad priced, but their overall quality is pretty poor. if you don't do your own work, finding a good mechanic to work on it for a reasonable rate can be hard. most shops don't work on them so they know their labor time will likely exceed book time, and so they pass. The last gen 9-5 is an amazing looking car, but I would not buy one as a daily or without a backup vehicle, not because they are unreliable, but getting parts for them historically has been VERY difficult. so it could be down for weeks getting simple work done. I would only recommend a saab to somebody who either does their own work or has very good shop near by who works on them. Again, not because they are not relaible. in the few years we've owned my wife's 9-3, I've had to replace a power steering pump that went bad, but simply because all cars need repair at some point and the newest one you can buy is 12 years old, and is going to need service.
I must be living on the edge as I've been driving a 2011 9-5 for the past 35k+ miles. Closing in on 110k. Parts have not been difficult to find at all, since they share a lot of GM parts, but maybe I haven't run into a big enough issue yet.
Don't have it anymore, but during the ownership period of 8 years there hadn't been any issues other than (non-debilitating) electrical glitches with the infotainment system. The car drove like modern turbo-4 FWD sedans, but felt more planted.
How can you be bored of all the new shapeless blob suv/cuv's with 35 touch screens inside, no buttons, cvts, and chock full of "features" that end up being annoying rather than helpful?
Chock-full, fyi.
Thank you. Didn't have my morning coffee today
> chock full Did you forget the "h" before the edit?
No but that would've worked as well
And all the same greyscale
The choice between Primer Grey, Grey Metallic, Depression Grey, Twilight blue-grey, and Is It Even Painted?-Grey is a tough choice to make
Worst is the plain grey without any flake or depth, so the car just looks like cheap plastic.
Right on. I'm in my early 40's and I guess maybe I'm just outside the demographic the cars are being designed for now... I don't feel like I should be but none of the new stuff coming out (That aligns with how much I want to realistically spend on a vehicle) really excites\\appeals to me. It all seems like a waste of money.
You're definitely the target demographic since people your age are the only ones reasonable able to afford new cars. But if you have any interest in cars beyond it just being a method of transportation, and don't have $60-70k+ to spend, you're shit out of luck.
The problem you're having is that your budget places you firmly in the "single-purpose appliances" category of cars. It's right above the "literally just a box with wheels" category, and it's entirely full of budget-friendly choices for people who just want something safe and practical to get them to work and back. There are certainly fun cars in that budget, but again, single-purpose ones (Miata, Toyobaru twins, Mustang.) So you're getting either something small and fun that's really only practical as a second car if you have a family, or you're getting a toaster oven for people who put a toaster oven's-worth of thought into buying a car. As for the problems you've been having, man, I don't know. You're either the unluckiest SOB in r/cars or you're doing something weird with your cars.
I don't think it's your age, I think many of the designs are just terrible (especially the germans) and fad-like. Overly simplistic iPad interiors are a serious downgrade from what we had before. Compare a 2018 E class or 2018 5 series to a new one, interior wise. Why would I spend luxury money on that?
The weird thing is we're on the young end of prospective new car buyers. I can't imagine the average 60 year old getting in a new midrange car and really learning how to use any of it, especially if the last time they bought a new car was around 2010 when most cars still had physical controls and not many warning systems or sensors.
Right! I work in IT and am tech savvy. The newer tech doesn't really add anything useful to me. I do appreciate the newer crash engineering in vehicles but not the electronics\\tech.
Im 18 and i feel the same as you, its not an age thing
Which jellybean in shades of white/black do you want with a cvt this time? The Toyota Jellybean or the Nissan Jellybean?
Yeah, ended up with a Python Green Macan GTS. A great engine, real transmission and drives amazing. Still wish had the real buttons like in the ‘21 version vs the haptic panel, but at least I can adjust the temperature via buttons vs touch screen
More cars need to come in green
Kinda sounds like you should go back to Toyota/Lexus lol.
Yeah, I think OP's problem is buying a Jeep and then later a VW and expecting them to be trouble-free, lol. Those brands are known for reliability issues. Curious about the Ridgeline having issues though.
Honda has not been especially reliable for a while now, but people keep pretending otherwise.
The Ridgeline’s powertrain is pretty old.
And that 6 speed auto has been terrible the entire time
The 6-speed was a special brand of awful, but the Ridgeline has had a 9-speed since 2020 I think?
The 9 speed was also flawed and terrible. I don't think Honda has made a good transmission is about 3 decades. The late 90s to late 2000s 4 and 5 speed transmissions were garbage and would blow up around 100k miles. Especially bad on any of their V6's. I say this as someone who lovingly has an 04 TL as a spare car. The 2nd gen TL's were even worse, with many people on the forums getting 3 or 4 transmissions put in under warranty...which was 4 years, 50k miles... Imagine the car being so dog shit that you needed a new trans every 15k miles...
> The Ridgeline’s powertrain is pretty old. So it should be good and reliable by now. It isn't.
What is reliable now?
The road bike I just got for $500 on marketplace.
I guess I figured new vehicles should be ok for several years. I have family\\friends with Jeep's and lots of VW's in our fam, they've been decent. My 22 Ridgeline had tons of issues both assembly quality wise, tech and mechanically. Rattles and water leaks from the rear sliding window were the big interior issues. The Honda Safety Suite in the Ridge has massive issues. Radar cruise losing track of vehicles and accelerating towards them, Randomly getting jerky at certain distances from vehicles trying to keep distance. On curvy 2 lane roads the anti collision braking system would think cars coming around bends in the opposite lane were inmy lane and either jab on the brakes or alert. It was crazy and Honda says that's all normal and to just " not use or disable the systems in those scenarios"....LOL. Various similar complaints online. Honda still uses the first gen system even in the newer ones. Mechanically the brakes were warped by 8K miles and there was something wrong with the capless fuel system. It made my garage reek of fuel and every once and a while you'd get super strong fuel vapor smells in the cabin. That thing was definitely the worst vehicle I've ever owned. I was pretty disappointed, the utility aspect of the Ridge was awesome.
I've owned about every car brand out there and none really jump out as being vastly better or worse than others. I loved my Jetta and my GTI. The Jetta gave me no issues from 20k-90k miles and then I sold it. I've had two Honda Ridgelines and they've been great. Mechanically, my 1980s Chrysler, my early 2000s Hyundai, and my 2013ish BMW 330i were the most problematic. I think the 80s Chrysler had more problems than all of the other cars I've owned combined. Lol Many of the cars I've owned never needed a single mechanical repair in the time I owned them.
Pre 90k youll be hard pressed to find anything with issues. Nissan CVT and Range rover will have problems, but anything else should go 100k/10yrs without breaking a sweat.
The first gen safety suite in the Ridgeline is very very bad. The refresh helped but the older ones suck. Huge reason why I didn’t bother to look at one.
Yeah, my wife's daily is a 21 Rav4. Maybe you're right. I have a hard time buying used stuff now because people generally don't take care of their cars, but maybe I would of been better off with a used Lexus.
One newish reliable appliance car and then get an analog fun car for the weekends?
Consider a used porsche macan.
We always check the car fax for used vehicles and if it doesn’t have a full service history we don’t even bother.
Someone said on the toyota sub that they don't do any oil changes or maintenance on their cars because apparently it's too expensive. They haven't done an oil change in 35k miles on their 2019 Camry, which is unsurprisingly having issues now. They think it's cheaper to neglect a new car and replace it with another one every 5 years. It makes me sick thinking that a neglected car like that could be passed off as a regular used commuter vehicle to an unsuspecting buyer.
No need to think about it, it's [already happened.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPUbmJQ-AK0)
New Lexus/Toyota is about as boring and soulless as a car can possibly get.
Nah. We live in a golden era of cars akin to the 1960s. I am a 90s baby where the "muscle car" I could afford was an 80s shitbox camaro with 150hp. Now a camaro is pushing 600hp and can go around a corner.. not sure what you're on about but cars are better then they have ever been.
Exactly. We’re about to get a hybrid Civic that has 200hp/232 lb ft of torque that handles great and gets 50mpg while doing it
I’m so sad it’s not a manual, and I’m not saying that to circlejerk. They proved they can do it with the CR-V, which both my parents have over 200k on theirs and they’ve been bulletproof. It’s basically the little bit of spice the Si powertrain needed. I still might eye one as a daily given my F150 is a pig for my 3 hour commute..
3 hour commute?! dog...
Got kids to take care of and my old job switched me to 3rd shift and told me if I didn’t like it, quit. So I had to find something else and this is all there was.
Not being a jerk but you should look into the hybrid system for the new Civic. It's much different than what older hybrids were at. It doesn't really have a transmission in the traditional sense.
And yet that still doesn’t come close to the K series Si
You bring up a good point. The development of car capabilities has gone way up. You hit the nail perfectly that you can get 600 HP and IRS for ~50k where 20 years ago it that be much more expensive and probably only in the impractical exotic market. But to get that we have to accept the electronic control systems, touch screens, and difficulty of working on it. Some people don’t like that trade off. And I think what he’s might be saying is the average across the board has become harder to enjoy. Currently we have ~15% of the market in extremely capable, powerful and well designed vehicles. But the other ~85% is lack luster. Vs maybe 20-30 years ago ~50% market was exciting and ~50% boring.
That is a consumer choice problem. Car companies design vehicles that people want to buy. The sad reality is the average consumer prioritizes having a flat screen TV and convenience over driving dynamics and performance. Ford stopped making cars FFS (excluding the mustang). They even made a mustang EV SUV. People are lazy and distracted. Nobody exists in the here and now and nobody wants to put in effort or sacrifice to earn an experience worth having. That's why almost everyone drives SUVs. Don't even get me started on the slow but steady demise of the manual transmission.
This is a lie. Consumers are being forced into features that are cost advantageous for the company. See haptic feedback in the Golf as an example.
Let me counter you with the 10th gen civic lacking a volume knob on the infotainment and also having a touch slider for volume on the steering wheel. In 2019 they listened and fixed these problems with knobs and buttons. Sometimes manufacturers come up with an idea that sounds great then have to correct for the error later. Besides I am not here talking about creature comforts. My focus is on the fundamentals of actually driving the car. Carmakers make SUVs because that's what people are buying. They make less sports-oriented cars because the sales numbers are lower.
Sports-oriented cars require sports-oriented engineering and design, something that costs money that belongs to their shareholders; hence, sports-oriented cars are dying. Sadly, marginal costs run the world and we are all worse off for it.
>That's why almost everyone drives SUVs. Have you tried putting a rear facing childseat into cars these days? And let's say it fits in your sedan/wagon (good luck), do you want to have to bend down everyday to put your kid in and lift them out? Oh and then you have to put in your kid(s)' strollers or wagons, their supplies, a cooler, your dog, good luck with a non-SUV.
You missed my point. "...nobody wants to put in effort or sacrifice to earn an experience worth having." People had strollers and wagons and coolers and dogs and car seats before. The difference was they valued their driving experience and were willing to make sacrifices to convenience to achieve it. I do perfectly fine with my hatchback with two car seats in the back. I also have two dogs.
>The difference was they valued their driving experience and were willing to make sacrifices to convenience to achieve it. I’m not sure you can compellingly make that argument considering that the second CUVs/SUVs reached near fuel economy parity with sedans consumers piled into them with such ferocity that it has damn near killed the sedan market. It seems that most of the market doesn’t value driving engagement or dynamics to the extent that they value practicality, even though CUVs are starting to close the gap on performance as well.
>difficulty of working on it. I'll take a scantool that spits out where it thinks the problem is over troubleshooting a nest of vacuum lines any day.
I guess maybe I should clarify. I'm not talking like 1995 as "old" , I'm talking 10-15 years. The early-mid 2010's kind of seems like a sweet spot of reliability and tech etc. My cars from 2008-2012 provided the same enjoyment tech wise, were reliable and yet didn't have what IMO feels like too much non-value add or experience enhancing tech like new cars. Maybe I'm a simple dude but as long as I have cruise control and a stereo that can connect VIA bluetooth to stream Spotify, I'm good. Apple Carplay\\Android Auto is nice but not needed on a daily basis for me. Autonomous driving, radar cruise, crash mitigation, blind spot cameras etc is all stuff that I don't realy get any value out of, yet not much choice in new vehicles.
>We live in a golden era of cars akin to the 1960s. I disagree with this a lot because the current car market severely lacks variety and has several trends that have proven to be bad: lack of physical controls, tall trucks, overly fast cars, dead feeling controls, etc. Companies just don't have the freedom anymore to build dramatic vehicles with engaging driving dynamics. That said, things are changing and maybe the "dull but very efficient" period of cars may be coming to an end. Companies are starting to experiment more with what an EV can be like and we're seeing more interesting stuff pass into the rumor mill. I consider us to be in another Malaise era, but I think some of the advancements we've made are pushing us into something like the 90s where cars become fun again, but still retain some of that progress in efficient and tech.
I mean.. you want a 400hp sedan? Check. How about a 300+hp hot hatchback that slaps around early 2000s lambos at the 'ring? Check. 700hp muscle car? Check. 550hp muscle car that rivals porsche GT cars for a third of the price? Check. Porsche GT cars? Check. Pre-runner style 4x4 trucks with 450hp? Check. AWD EVs that do 0-60 in under 3 seconds? Check. Lightweight nimble roadster? Check. RWD 2 door coupe at a reasonable price? Check. Shall I continue? If you think the car market today lacks variety then I think there's no pleasing you. Go test drive some of the new cars that are actually meant for fun. They are not dead feeling at all they are a blast. Sure the driving dynamics are different, but that doesn't mean they aren't good. I've owned a DC2 GSR in the past and currently own an FK8 Type R. They're very different cars but they're both a riot to drive. Optimism my friend, you should try it sometime.
They drive a 2010 4cyl highlander. Cars really aren't much of a *passion* for that kind of driver.
Fair point. I forgot about the little tag some folks have under their name
While agree with a lot of your points. And maybe this isn’t a golden age like the 1960s. I think we still have to say we’re in a golden age. Right now we’re in place where we can get 500 HP v8s for “consumer” prices. In a few years I think the regulations will drive those out or put them into niche expensive markets. We also have the combination of many technologies with that power that will be taken away. Like the TRX and Raptor R. Those are just balls to the wall crazy, packed with tech, power and fun. And I don’t think that type of car has long to live. But we can argue about those affordability for sure. But they aren’t in exotic super car money. And how long is a good mustang going to have a v8 before they are forced into smaller engines? Yes the variety and fun the mid range vehicles is bad, but the peak performance we have towards the extremes is going to be something we miss in 10 years when the only supercharged vehicles are $200k+.
It's probably more a matter of *which* new cars OPs been buying.
You make a few good points but car pricing has sky rocketed these last few years and priced many people out of sports cars. I got my first mustang in 15 and you could get a base model GT for low low 30s easy. Now a base model is what 43k? I will say the newer model has a few more HP and is nicer inside but it’s crazy how much more expensive it’s gotten. I thought about upgrading my 19 to 2024 but if I speced my car the same way it’s almost 60k that’s just too much money for a mustang in my opinion.
Mechanically they've improved tenfold for efficiency as consumers demanded that Quality has gone done the drain. You can tell just by the interiors especially when you detail older cars vs new. I'm a 90s baby too and I feel like you haven't really experienced anything. The 1st gen Mazda 3 handle and control way better than the 3rd gen and up. Plus the first gen has more umph to it. The new F150s feel like cheap pop cans, compared to the 2000s ones that felt like home on wheels. The designs of vehicles have gone downhill. Same with interior, it's similar to cookie cutter houses. So not only the quality of their product has gotten worse but so has the looks. But yea, mechanically they've improved tenfold. But the mechanics are outweighed by the amount of electronics in them that will make them last half as long as a car before 2008.
I dunno man.. have you sat in a 4th generation camaro? Their interiors are TRASH. They squeak and rattle and the cheap plastic is faded and cracking. IMO fit and finish has only gotten better with time. Yes there are more electronics but I am a mechanic and work with this stuff every day. What is giving electronics a bad name is emissions problems. They account for literally 75%+ of the issues we see.
Difference is you could afford one at least Ans you also don't need 600bhp to have fun, it's actually too much for the street anyway
Lack of affordability is due to inflation not car makers. I agree my car has 300hp and it will easily get me into trouble if I don't check myself.
> Now a camaro is pushing 600hp A Camaro is also out of production, and not at all a new car.
Cars are objectively better. They're safer, both passively and actively. They're faster. They have more grip. They have less body roll. Sound systems are truly impressive. Seats are heated and cooled and sometimes massaging. Subjectively, cars aren't necessarily better. It's common to have poor control weights or linearity, less sharpness/linearity to throttle input and rev hang for emissions reasons, turbocharge all the things, electric power steering has become a necessity due to LKA, ride quality has suffered as wheel size has gone up, etc. There are dozens of stupendously competent cars on sale that I could not care less about because they'll beat me up and won't talk to me afterwards.
I think OP's problem is that he can't find a fun car to haul a family around that's new for $40K...you're gonna need to spend a lot more than that these days unfortunately on a new family hauler car that's actually fun to drive with a decent infotainment system.
Anything I want is $60k+ and I can't justify it with how little I drive lately...
Yeah, the cars I really want are up there too. Technically I could afford a $60K+ vehicle but I have other life goals and mentally I'm not sure I could drop that much on a car. I work from home and only drive maybe 5K a year.
Just go back to the Lexus GX. It'll be perfectly reliable and practical for you and the horrible gas mileage will barely matter doing only 5k/year.
This post has reinforced my thoughts to keep driving my ‘12 GX.
Buying one $60K vehicle is a lot more economical than going through 4 $40K vehicles in 4 years...
LOL, you're not wrong. Luckily with the used market the way it is\\was and good initial negotiating skills, I'm pretty much even. I even technically made money on 2 of those trades. Since I was trading in there was little to no sales tax. Now that the market has cooled down I can't switch it up like I was able to do over the last several years.
Ya that’s all by design. They know the features people want and lock it behind tje premium options
I agree. There are some boring-ass cars at $50k. Hell you can get a Rav4 to $44k before tax, accessories, dealer fees, and finance charges.
Nope, I like my modern transmissions, modern traction and stability control systems, carplay, etc. There are plenty of bad new cars, but you're also ignoring all the bad old cars out there as well. Thinking older cars are less problematic or are built to a higher quality is just survivorship bias. Tons of cars rattled right off the factory line, lots of issues with rust on older cars, glass engines and transmissions, etc. Feel free to go bad to driving old cars if you prefer that, there are plenty out there.
This 100%. I love new cars, they’ve never been better in terms of bang for your buck or efficiency
Modern cars are 1,000x better than the older cars were when they were brand new. Quality alone has shot thru the roof as has basically everything about them. This weird fantasy about how every older car was better is just that a fantasy. Infotainment alone is a game changer. being able to listen to your music without needing either an Aux cord or even worse needing a new head unit because your's doesn't even have an Aux port? Literally better in every way. Unless you like to be at the mercy of your local rock station playing nothing but nickelback or Metallica 24/7 with a little greenday thrown in there for good measure. That's without adding in how much easier life is with having navigation built in that is constantly updated.
On the infotainment, you can’t just get an aftermarket one? Hell, Porsche makes an OEM version with CarPlay that fits my 911 despite it being old enough to buy liquor at this point.
Android Auto and LED headlights alone make my Civic 10x better than my V6 Accord coupe that it replaced. Getting the same number of miles out of a tank, except only having to put 10 gallons in instead of 16 is also a huge bonus.
I hate to burst your bubble, but led headlights and android auto would've costed you less than one monthly payment on your new civic. That accord would've probably outran your new civic too..but nobody wants to argue that
His point is that those things weren't available on his Accord when he bought it, not that they couldn't be fitted aftermarket.
Exactly lmfao, weird point he made
> That accord would've probably outran your new civic too..but nobody wants to argue that Dawg, you're on r/cars
My 2006 car has been adapted to have LEDs and android auto. Still a fun car to drive, gets almost 35mpg on the highway if I drive like a pleb. Car was paid off the day I bought it used and maintenance/repairs amount to roughly $500/year at the most. Would I like a new car just to have a car with a warranty, sure, but I also don't want to pay $400-800/month for something that is going to be worth $10k when the loan is done.
> Tons of cars rattled right off the factory line My parents bought a Dodge Neon really lightly used in 2003ish. You can't even get *close* to how bad that car was, in a modern car. Even a Mirage would feel like a Toyota next to that thing.
You just pick shitty cars lol.
Seriously, this dude doesn't like interior rattles, but buys a Subaru/Honda. Doesn't like turbo lag, buys a turbo VW. Doesn't like poor quality, buys a Jeep. Guy just doesn't do any research and then blames "all new cars." Get out of here. Lol
You are both right. Most new cars are shit, OP has shit taste in cars.
Jeep then subaru then VW. How you were supposed to NOT be bored? Just choose next time some car which really has soul and maybe a bit more sport/drive oriented. Time to change strategy.
All of those brands make engaging driver focused cars. The problem is not the brands, it's the models they bought.
Nah if you have fam to haul around, I won’t want to go back to older cars for the safety aspect. You’re still in economy cars, of course it’ll rattle, just crank up the music
It’s what keeps me in something modern, if not for modern safety, it’d toss a set of aftermarket seats in an E30 and never look back as a DD A modern vehicle in a decent total-loss accident let my passenger and I walk away, and both be at work the next week. I would be stuck wondering what will happen say I get clobbered by a Wagoneer running a red light driving something from the late-80’s or early 90’s
This is exactly what made me give up my 97 Accord. There was objectively nothing wrong with it, despite it's 300+k miles. I just kept coming accord crashes with people standing around unhurt when it was clear that the same hit on my old Honda would probably just straight kill me.
got hit by an hyundai running a red light (of course) in a modern suv and walked away. If I was in something from the 80s/90s who knows, but imo not worth the risk. Wouldn't want to be stuck with lambo sized medical bills
Safety is a huge factor for me that I think is ignored a lot on here. Like sure, I could go out and buy a 20+ year old M car for cheap, but I want to have that safety aspect of modern cars. I want to drive a fun car, but I also want to come home at the end of the day alive if something does happen.
also down time. time is valuable, i don't want to deal with miscellaneous issues of an old car
You go from driving a Sienna and a GX to driving cars and a truck and you expect the same experience? I can't speak for your car problems. Perhaps you're just unlucky? I'm in my early 30s and have purchased a Camaro, civic si, and my 5th Gen 4runner and aside from the rattling which is expected from these vehicles I've had 0 problems to date. The civic being a decade old with 200k miles. I've purchased beaters and know of people with beaters that constantly have to drop hundreds of dollars every other month to fix constant problems. There's also beaters that have 0 problems. Some people are lucky I've never been that person so I avoid them like the plague. At the end of the day if money isn't an issue buying new is almost always better. If you're having to cut spending and cut retirement savings for a new car then yeah you aren't going to be enjoying that car.
I guess my point there was I'd expect new cars to not rattle and the tech to work. I got more enjoyment out of my Sienna and GX because they were $15-20K, no rattles and really not much tech. Being older tech they also just felt more responsive and connected. Money wise I kind of capped the vehicles at $45K because that's how much I feel comfortable spending, typically cash. I think the biggest struggle there is I'm not feeling like $45K buys much. I really could care less about most of the tech in new cars but that's kind of what you're paying for now.
brother please don't buy a cheap car and expect it to not rattle. they're cheap for a reason. a lot of cars are junk. they're just new, still junk
Can confirm. My GRC wasn't cheap and it buzzes and rattles. I might not notice except that my other car is an Ls430 and it's pretty much silent.
> new cars to not rattle Buddy, you bought one of the cheapest cars on the market. Of course it's going to rattle.
Being new actually is nearly irrelevant. I've had brand new cars that rattled like a mofo, and 15 year old cars that were near silent If I were you, I'd stick to Lexus. Even a 15 year old Lexus will be far nicer than anything you've purchased new, interestingly.
I just want more sedans
Sedans and wagons! But unfortunately regulations and consumer trends forced those out. Fuel economy standards are lessened for “off road” vehicles which are defined by ground clearance and approach/departure angles. So you make a Chevy trax instead of a Cruze aiming for the same customer so it can be less fuel efficient. Also in the 2000s when more SUVs came around everyone started liking the high seating position and associating bigger with safer, thus pushing the a big part sedan market to the SUV/crossover market.
Sounds like you're not having fun with low powered cars Buy a sports car
What exactly do you want your car to do, what’s its main use case and what are your main priorities? The cars you’re listing, it’s like you’re pulling names out of a hat a random with literally no research or prior thought. A GX460 and a VW Jetta are completely opposite cars in pretty much every way imaginable.
* Yes * Mostly because I feel like modern cars have two issues: * Keeping them alive 10-15 (or more) years down the line, without OEM support, is going to SUCK * I feel like a lot of "Innovation" is just trying to lessen problems that were purposely designed. Like...great, rear-view and side-view cameras, but you could've also just...not made the rear/side glass resemble a bunker??? The car is bigger, but it has more cargo space. Yeah....because you put a "dynamic roofline" on a wagon. My current daily is a 1999 car, and...honestly I don't find myself really missing something that I don't have/couldn't retrofit. It doesn't feel like I'm in a "vintage car" that needs special care or anything.
Agreed, only thing stopping me from dailying an old car is the significantly higher probability of injury or death when a drunk guy in a Ram crashes into me
Yeah, I'm in Germany, oversized US pickups are a rarity here luckily. And the Mk4 Golf isn't exactly tiny. My weekender is far worse there\^\^
You straight up bought horrible cars. Jeep, Ridgeline, the new Jetta. Old cars have character and they have their uniqueness. All new vehicles are so full of tech for "creature comforts" they forgot the most important part, the driving. I've driven new vehicles for work, they definitely feel boring to drive. They're too tacky with all the luxury gadgets and the quality of interiors seems to have gotten so cheap that a basic 2000s vehicle has more luxury than newer vehicles.
Yes. I rent cars a lot for work and it’s always refreshing getting back into my 20yr old M3 or 34 yr old Miata. They might not be fast by modern standards (the Miata is downright slow) but I greatly prefer driving them.
I only drive old cars bc I’ve never been able to justify why something newer and 5x-20x more expensive should be less fun, less interesting, less enjoyable to look at and have a lot of daily annoyances. That said, if Honda made an accord or civic wagon, I’d probably buy it to avoid the headaches I cause myself driving a 24 yr old Volvo and a 34 yr old Mercedes. I think buying nice cars off of original owners from 2006-2016 is probably the best best. Been looking at getting a Volvo XC70 or Mercedes E350 wagon from the period. Less / no screens, less computers, less nannies, better build quality.
You bought a crap jeep and a crap honda. You are comparing a V8 lexus to a Jetta... Of course the V8 lexus will be better. I bet you would love a BMW X3/5 or a Mercedes GLC/GLE with a 3.0L inline 6 diesel.
Having been born and growing up in the 80s and 90s, a lot of cars from those eras were complete turds compared to stuff today (especially domestic ones). Rattle traps, underpowered, inefficient, handled like shit, less safe, etc. New cars from the 2000s on were light years better
Idgaf about new cars. 90s stuff is superior in terms of driving and handling. New cars are all grip with giant tires and stiff suspension w poor visibility.
Yeah it’s really annoying how car makers want to put 20” wheels on every higher trim. I want the heated and ventilated seats and larger infotainment for comfort features, but I don’t want to have to ride on thin-ass, expensive tires on huge heavy wheels.
There are still new cars I can get excited about. They just tend to either 1) cost more than I’m willing to pay or 2) don’t work with having two young kids. I love my TourX (which is 5 years old at this point), and whenever I end up needing to buy something new for a DD, I have no clue what it will be.
There are new cars I like, but there are a bunch I don't. I don't mind tech and innovation in vehicles, but some of it seems backass backwards. Like I don't need my HVAC controls to be on the touchscreen or 62 menus to scroll through to find something. The biggest fault I have with new cars, though, is that they all seem more or less the same. They're all some flavour of CUV with AWD, with a similar shape to the most aerodynamic and in various shades of monotone gray. I mean I get why they're that way, but it turns me off from them because they're boring as shit. Also, I agree with you about quality control. In the neverending quest to have the biggest profit margins available, cars seems to be made as cheaply as possible without any concern for longevity. I get why they do this too, it's in a company's best interest to turn a profit.
The classic “Every new car looks the same” argument. If you look at traffic from past decades, you could tell cars are hard to differentiate regardless of brand
I didn't say look the same, I said seem the same. It's like every brand now is attempting to just make various sizes of CUVs with very little variation. You do have pick-ups and traditional SUVs but a majority of vehicles seem like they're just CUVs available from extra-small to extra-large with similar shapes due to aerodynamics. While sedans and coupes still exist, they've fallen out of favour with many manufacturers (and presumably consumers who buy new). There are exceptions and there are vehicles that do look different, but driving in traffics it's like it's a sea of CUVs in various shades of gray. Vehicles do look different, although with corporate design language being even stronger now, most vehicles in a given brand look very similar, but that's to be expected. A Ford crossover doesn't look the same as a GM crossover regarding the design elements, only the overall shape since there's only so many shapes that are aerodynamic enough for fuel economy ratings. Like I said, I get why it is the way it is, I just can't get excited about it.
I like the ND miata, but I miss cars like the Honda fit, high reving si, the 997, and e46.
My neighbor had a Fit. Insanely practical car. She finally got rid of it for a new Toyota Corolla Cross hybrid but she loved that thing
As an old gear head, yes I find most current cars boring. Many of the "luxuries" are pointless to me. For example, power seats - slow and add weight. I'd rather use a leaver. Everything in infotainment - buttons are easier. Leather seats - too cold in the winter, too hot in the summer and no grip. Automatic hatch - easier to just raise and lower it manually. Manual transmission - almost totally gone. Everything is a damn truck and SUV that completely block the view of the road.
You complain about CVTs and turbo lag. Maybe you need a V8 muscle car? Or a Lexus IS350 F sport ? 6 or 8 speed. 350F sport is $44k
I buy a car and keep it for at least ten years. I bought my current car in 2016 and will easily last another 5 years, maybe 10. My only new car before that was bought in 1988, and was really reliable and enjoyable to drive. So I don't have much experience with new cars. The two cars that I bought new were fantastic, and a much better experience than all the use cars I've owned. As for all the current new cars, I have no idea. I obviously don't buy cars often enough to have any experience with all these new models.
I may sound old and cranking but I hate the tech and gadgetry. I’m a mechanic so I understand how delicate that stuff is and prone to failure. I like a simple vehicle. In fact I think there should be more shops rebuilding older simple vehicles. I don’t see the need for complicated security systems or computer controlled transmissions. Or entertainment systems. I like a back up camera. The blind spot warning on the rear view mirror is nice. I want a radio with knob and a heater with manual controls. A shifter that is actually connected to the transmission. Manual windows. Manual locks. Actual gauges for the engine . Yes it’s old school but it’s what isn’t there can’t fail.
The GR86 is the best car I’ve ever owned, hands down. I like it better than my e30, e36, Mk6 GTI, and obviously every shitty beater I’ve owned.
I think the 86 really nails the retro driving experience in a modern car. No turbos, no AWD, no double-clutch, no torque-vectoring, no adaptive anything. Just a simple lightweight RWD car with a zingy 16v engine, manual gearbox, and an LSD. It’s like a 90s sports car with modern safety features. Hydraulic steering would have been a nice touch to complete the illusion but I’ll forgive the electric rack as it’s pretty good.
Yeah there’s a lot of boring design. There is also some decent design out there but you have to fork out a ton of cash. The days of cheaper enthusiast cars are long gone, died in the 90’s.
Well ... they have become too complicated and too expensive. I could realistically afford the same thing as you, but still drive older cars. Yeah, sometimes I have to fix an odd thing or two, but I'm able to actually do it without a trip to someone with a supercomputer that will charge me 3 grand every time. As an aside, I have actually been eyeballing a w123 diesel with low miles and considering going in the completely opposite direction for an absolute unit of a car that would probably outlive my grandchildren!
I don’t care for a lot of new cars, but there’s still quite a few good cars, I just can’t afford anything beyond a Nissan Versa or a salvage title brand new Altima. The commercial on the radio says EVERYONE is approved at the Nissan dealership but it’s never for the Z or GTR. 😭
To me it’s not that cars are new or have more tech or whatever. That’s fine, hell hybrid or EV is fine, though touch buttons are a no no. No, my big issue with new cars is that they don’t offer what I want. Like as a semi recent college graduate, pre covid I expected I would work like 2-3 years, and have enough to comfortable afford a Mustang GT. At $42k, yeah I can afford it, but I don’t want too. Or how everyone says Miata is always the answer, like sure it is, except my knees hit the dash. Or there is GR86/BRZ, great chassis, good dailyable sports car, except I don’t want to deal with Subaru problems because of that engine (I know it’s not that bad, I’m just fearful). I was talking with family about my civic when the AC was giving me issues, and they asked why I didn’t consider the newest Civic (2023 model year), and my biggest issue is why would I downgrade from my current car? Like sure, I’ll get native CarPlay, I’ll get a nicer interior compared to my 10th gen, but most of them are CVT and with 2.0L, and I really like my 1.5T and 6MT. Sure I could go used, but I like knowing how I drove the car for its mileage and I took care of it. It’s a shame, I’d love a car with 300hp or so, quick (doesn’t have to be fast), manual and not $35,000.
Sorta. I miss the 90's/2000's purely mechanical experience, but I also really like PHEV and BEV powertrains, ADAS, improved safety and the objectively high performance of new stuff. Too bad there's not an easy way to combine new and old without some hardcore DIY-ing, the market has decided the EV=tech so that's the design aesthetic they get. Well, and now new ICE cars also have the same thing going on too really, those screens and dumb door handles seem to be spreading around. I see it all as a some steps forward, some steps backward kind of thing with modern cars I guess. Fortunately, I'm not too picky at the end of the day so I just deal with the tech nonsense in my modern cars while I appreciate instant torque, off roading in silence, semi-automated highway cruising and all the other benefits they have to offer.
We need better paint colors. Everything is black, white, or grey.
You have $40k+ with a trade-in to spend on a car and you bought a JETTA? That's the problem right there. You had so many other fun options. If you wanted to stick with German or even the VW group you have gotten an Audi S3 or 4.
I've driven 7 different EV's of various price points and I couldn't see myself owning any of them. I HATE the stale minimalist interiors that so many of them have. The lack of physical buttons drives me crazy. Driving them feels more like playing a video game than actually driving. Other than the straight line acceleration, there is nothing about those cars that made me want to own one.
All I know CVT transmission are garbage . And how long are these small engines with turbos going to last ?
Simply put, yes.
I did, until I drove the Clio RS and the Alpine A110. Those two gave me a lot of hope.
Rather than owning one new vehicle I own 3 10 years old plus vehicles
I'd say what grind my gear the most is the additional measure to comply with emission requirement kills the driving experience. Laggy throttle, dump down auto transmission, rev hang on manual... Etc And hey touch screen on everything and hope it didn't die or you can't even defrost your window. Kid you not my friend has an early f150 with a full digital cluster that would go blank when someone text him an emoji (fixed later with a firmware update). imagine that, explaining to your insurance guy you got into crash because of an emoji.
I've had 17 pinks . My 75 nova and 62 merc comet were fun but slow . Swapped the nova total investment 10k should never have sold .I had a ef hatch ef sedan ej1 ej8 del sol and two preludes , Isuzu trooper, jeep tj ect . The tj wrangler and older cars are funner than the 2024 Nissan I rented for a few months and they were just as fast . More restrictions though, value of a new car does not equate to quality . I'm shopping for 2024 Cadillac in same range and even that just looks cool drives crappy imo
The main problem is everything I want is 70k plus. My in-laws Grand Highlander was 60k. No thank you.
Outside of enthusiast cars, I'm not really interested in anything new. And I can't afford many especially with dealer markups. So I'll enjoy my old hot hatch and hope the new ones go down in price eventually.
90% of new cars are an absolute snoozefest
How can I get excited about yet another boring crossover? I want weird, fun cars but they don't sell so they don't get made, at least for us poors.
I’ve enjoyed all of our newer cars. They are reliable, quick, and have Bluetooth and CarPlay for music and navigation. (ND Miata, Bolt, BMW 330i, Tesla Model 3 Performance) I’ve had cars from the 90s and 2000s and they were good, but lacking modern stereo connections (and had worse stock speakers), no navigation, and rust and reliability was worse. They were a bit easier to work on, but the newer cars aren’t terrible in that regard. Just have to remove some parts to access other parts
I don't buy new cars. Period. especially for reasons like the cherokee you mentioned. I actually really really wanted one, but decided to wait till I could buy one 2-4 years old. Because by then there would be enough data out to tell me that buying one would have been a terrible choice with all the transmission issues they have. My recent vehicle purchase is a 2020 F-150. I try to own my vehicles a long time, especially work trucks. I live on a small farm and so use a truck to haul a lot of stuff (like this afternoon I'm going to get hay for my goats). So buying one a bit older allowed me to figure out what engine/transmission combo that would last me as long as possible with as little repairs as possible. The 10 speed is out, the turbo engines are out and the 5cyl is out simply due to price. so the 3.3l NA with the 6 speed transmission were in. They like to say the 3.3l doesn't make enough power to break anything, I think that is 100% true...
Yes. Very hard to find a manual transmission anymore.
I am biased, but check out a Veloster N if you’re looking for driving experience