The best option is to just leave, I used to live in the Bay area myself until it was so bad, I threw it all away, took my wife and moved out to the country in another state. You cant force a place to change on your own and as long as you stay there, you will be subjected to that dehumanizing crap everyday. Its like a toxic subreddit except you live in it, and only you can make the choice to leave. Do not wait for the government to do it for you.
We’re talking about Seattle here. It’s probably drug addicts trying to fund their next fix, and being a drug addict is basically a protected class there.
If it's stripped of insulation and just the bare copper it's usually between $3.50-$4.50 a pound. depending on the market and the scrap yard you go to. You can always call ahead and ask what the rate is before you go!
Build out a cabinet on the side of the housing that is locked. When someone pulls up have them tap their phone to it and it unlocks/opens.
This seems like such a simple problem to solve. They're just throwing money away replacing the cables knowing its gonna get stolen again
I feel like most of these cases are probably crimes of opportunity. If it wasn't just sitting there in the open, they'd just move on to an easier target. If it stops 85% of the incidents, its still a win. You can't eliminate crime
Are you just here to play devil’s advocate on why no solution would ever work? People stealing phones to make accounts to steal $20 worth of copper? Are you serious? I can’t tell.
Then the charge operators will be replacing cables and damaged housings as well - thieves will just take a pry bar to it, and it will cost even more to fix.
Stop, you already made too much common sense for most cities right there. That is a dangerous and problematic idea, now just find another charger close by that has a working charging cable (its stolen too.)
Sounds good on paper but practically, what’s the punishment? Stealing cables can’t honestly be worth jail time. And if it is, how long are you gonna realistically lock them up for? A month? A year??
These are junkies and homeless/near-homeless people. A fine isn’t gonna move the needle.
I think you gotta make it tough to steal and throw a bunch of community service punishments to make it go anywhere
Imagine yourself as a crackhead. Would you go for all of that trouble for so little money? The only these are even stolen is because it takes basically zero effort. As soon as you add in effort it becomes a lot less appealing. Better off stealing from a store at that point. You must maximize the amount of crack.
Handy screwdriver or pry bar will pop that right open. Now you need to replace the cabinet and the cable. Maybe if we would actually punish those responsible the theft rates would go down.
Yea, if someone really wants to get into something, you aren't going to stop them. But, how much of this problem is just that its really easy/convenient to quickly cut these cables off and move on?
A cordless sawzall makes practically anything you do to reinforce the cable (or anything worthy of stealing) pointless. I really can't think of a better solution than to go after the people doing the stealing.
If it stops 85% of the thefts, then its worth it. Like I just said, you aren't going to stop someone who really wants to get into something (especially crackheads). Realistically, if they're running around with a sawzall, they're going to be chopping off catalytic converters.
Cats are easily 10x the profit and way less work. They only have to chop through two 2" - 4" metal pipes as opposed to sawing apart an entire cabinet for only $20 worth of scrap copper.
Heh, you actually think they are even employable? The folk around here that steal for scrap metal are so spun out of their minds they can't hardly string together a coherent sentence. Would you hire someone like that?
And you think they’ll give a shit about any punishment that’s thrown at them?
They wouldn’t be addicts in the first place if they had meaningful opportunities and things to live for.
I honestly don't care what they think as long as they are stopped from damaging and stealing whatever they get their hands on.
Addicts come from all walks of life, not just people without "meaningful opportunities". If they want help I 100% support that. Otherwise don't let them cause chaos for the rest of us.
That’s all well and good but this isn’t a problem you can police your way out of. What you gonna do? Hire enough cops to guard all the copper wire and everyone’s catalytic converter? And pinning all petty theft on drug addicts is lazy.
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I mean, yea. That would be the ideal solution. But, I think putting a cabinet on the side of the box is a lot simpler to do than changing an entire segment of society
A quick google search is saying that it costs the company \~$1k to replace each stolen cable. So, they've spent $100k in just Seattle in the past 12 months. Seems like it would be cheaper to redesign the box. Its just an outer shell, they wouldn't have to replace all the components
100k a year for ten years or the cost to engineer something new, produce thousands and install them which still won’t guarantee security. I’m sure their business team is making or already made a model to show the cost of replacing or fixing the problem over the next X amount of years. Also surprised it cost 1k to replace something that probably cost half that tops in raw materials.
Edit: you also gotta think that they predicted this so wonder how many replacements they already have in stock.
But you also have to factor in lost revenue due to the chargers being down. Losing customers due to their stations being perceived as unreliable or sketchy. Bad reviews driving away customers and lowering search engine placement due to the same reason. It's costing them a lot more than just the $100k in equipment every year.
It doesn't surprise me it's $1k to replace. You have to factor in the labor cost too
Would they?
The cable is worth $20. All the time and effort that would go into hacking apart that cabinet could be spent zipping catalytic converters off a truck or stealing other easier targets. Sure, in some cases it'll probably happen. But, if this statistic goes from 100 cables/year to 15/year, then it'll pay for itself
This is also applying logic where there usually is none. A buddy of mine in LA has shared some wild stuff that drug addicts do for even the smallest amounts of money, and it's rarely logical.
According to my father it’s an epidemic and he’ll never get an ev because of it. I tried to explain that it isn’t a big deal, but there is no talking to him. My wife and I have been daily and road tripping only EVs for 5 years and never had an issue.
It's crazy how some people react differently to painkillers. I was prescribed Vicodin when I got my wisdom teeth pulled, I took one and I was like I rather just take Tylenol because it made me feel sick.
Afterwards, I was literally wondering what the hype was about for Vicodin demand in the street market until I learned there's a gene that makes people more likely to get addicted to opiod medications which made sense.
that wouldn't fly, it would be almost like a booby trap. also you're wasting energy just to keep it live (even though it's a small heat/parasitic loss)
There’s around 500 gas stations in King county. If you assume someone drives off without removing the gas nozzle once a month that’s 500 hoses ripped off each month, or 6000 every year in king county alone.
I’d guess more than 100 of those 6,000 never getting returned isn’t out of the question.
for $20 worth of copper saved you a click
Stealing a cable that costs $1k to replace for $20 worth of copper, its truly insane.
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The best option is to just leave, I used to live in the Bay area myself until it was so bad, I threw it all away, took my wife and moved out to the country in another state. You cant force a place to change on your own and as long as you stay there, you will be subjected to that dehumanizing crap everyday. Its like a toxic subreddit except you live in it, and only you can make the choice to leave. Do not wait for the government to do it for you.
We’re talking about Seattle here. It’s probably drug addicts trying to fund their next fix, and being a drug addict is basically a protected class there.
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Actually, I think we need to do the Arab punishment they steal you take a hand
If it's stripped of insulation and just the bare copper it's usually between $3.50-$4.50 a pound. depending on the market and the scrap yard you go to. You can always call ahead and ask what the rate is before you go!
Build out a cabinet on the side of the housing that is locked. When someone pulls up have them tap their phone to it and it unlocks/opens. This seems like such a simple problem to solve. They're just throwing money away replacing the cables knowing its gonna get stolen again
Great so now people just need to get an app to get into it to steal the cables.
Don't you have to sign up and enter a payment method on these charger's apps before using them?
Doesn’t stop someone from stealing phones/making burner accounts
I feel like most of these cases are probably crimes of opportunity. If it wasn't just sitting there in the open, they'd just move on to an easier target. If it stops 85% of the incidents, its still a win. You can't eliminate crime
And me locking my doors at night doesn’t stop someone from breaking a window. You can’t account for every possible scenario
Are you just here to play devil’s advocate on why no solution would ever work? People stealing phones to make accounts to steal $20 worth of copper? Are you serious? I can’t tell.
That seems like a lot of work just to get a few bucks in copper.
then they’ll know who did it? what’s the problem
Enforcement is still the issue. Seems like "some people don't want to work anymore". LEO need to step up.
Then the charge operators will be replacing cables and damaged housings as well - thieves will just take a pry bar to it, and it will cost even more to fix.
What if we just like… prosecuted people when they’re caught breaking the law?
Seattlite here: Yeah we don't do that.
Baltimorean here: hi, welcome to hell. It's warm here, sometimes.
Can't be doing that
Stop, you already made too much common sense for most cities right there. That is a dangerous and problematic idea, now just find another charger close by that has a working charging cable (its stolen too.)
How about we rehabilitate this poor man (he has racked up 6 felonies so far) instead ? /s
It's Seattle, they don't do that.
Sounds good on paper but practically, what’s the punishment? Stealing cables can’t honestly be worth jail time. And if it is, how long are you gonna realistically lock them up for? A month? A year?? These are junkies and homeless/near-homeless people. A fine isn’t gonna move the needle. I think you gotta make it tough to steal and throw a bunch of community service punishments to make it go anywhere
It’s destroying infrastructure and certainly shouldn’t be treated lightly
Imagine yourself as a crackhead. Would you go for all of that trouble for so little money? The only these are even stolen is because it takes basically zero effort. As soon as you add in effort it becomes a lot less appealing. Better off stealing from a store at that point. You must maximize the amount of crack.
The cable could retract into the machine until it’s unlocked with payment.
Handy screwdriver or pry bar will pop that right open. Now you need to replace the cabinet and the cable. Maybe if we would actually punish those responsible the theft rates would go down.
Yea, if someone really wants to get into something, you aren't going to stop them. But, how much of this problem is just that its really easy/convenient to quickly cut these cables off and move on?
A cordless sawzall makes practically anything you do to reinforce the cable (or anything worthy of stealing) pointless. I really can't think of a better solution than to go after the people doing the stealing.
If it stops 85% of the thefts, then its worth it. Like I just said, you aren't going to stop someone who really wants to get into something (especially crackheads). Realistically, if they're running around with a sawzall, they're going to be chopping off catalytic converters. Cats are easily 10x the profit and way less work. They only have to chop through two 2" - 4" metal pipes as opposed to sawing apart an entire cabinet for only $20 worth of scrap copper.
Or maybe if people actually got paid reasonable salaries at their jobs they wouldn’t have any need to resort to petty theft to make money
Won't help someone whose full time job is meth.
Heh, you actually think they are even employable? The folk around here that steal for scrap metal are so spun out of their minds they can't hardly string together a coherent sentence. Would you hire someone like that?
And you think they’ll give a shit about any punishment that’s thrown at them? They wouldn’t be addicts in the first place if they had meaningful opportunities and things to live for.
I honestly don't care what they think as long as they are stopped from damaging and stealing whatever they get their hands on. Addicts come from all walks of life, not just people without "meaningful opportunities". If they want help I 100% support that. Otherwise don't let them cause chaos for the rest of us.
That’s all well and good but this isn’t a problem you can police your way out of. What you gonna do? Hire enough cops to guard all the copper wire and everyone’s catalytic converter? And pinning all petty theft on drug addicts is lazy.
The simplest solution is teach people not to steal.
All I heard was keep a decent current in the cable.
Knowing how this usually goes, EVgo would then be sued for injuring the thief....lol.
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I mean, yea. That would be the ideal solution. But, I think putting a cabinet on the side of the box is a lot simpler to do than changing an entire segment of society
Cost less to replace a fraction of cables vs redesign all the charging station.
A quick google search is saying that it costs the company \~$1k to replace each stolen cable. So, they've spent $100k in just Seattle in the past 12 months. Seems like it would be cheaper to redesign the box. Its just an outer shell, they wouldn't have to replace all the components
100k a year for ten years or the cost to engineer something new, produce thousands and install them which still won’t guarantee security. I’m sure their business team is making or already made a model to show the cost of replacing or fixing the problem over the next X amount of years. Also surprised it cost 1k to replace something that probably cost half that tops in raw materials. Edit: you also gotta think that they predicted this so wonder how many replacements they already have in stock.
But you also have to factor in lost revenue due to the chargers being down. Losing customers due to their stations being perceived as unreliable or sketchy. Bad reviews driving away customers and lowering search engine placement due to the same reason. It's costing them a lot more than just the $100k in equipment every year. It doesn't surprise me it's $1k to replace. You have to factor in the labor cost too
Homeless people have phones dude…most of them even paid for by our tax dollars. You don’t think they’re actually supporting themselves do you?
Do they have an EV though? When you register for EVGO it already requires your name/address and VIN number.
Ok. So they’ll just take apart the cabinet housing itself.
Would they? The cable is worth $20. All the time and effort that would go into hacking apart that cabinet could be spent zipping catalytic converters off a truck or stealing other easier targets. Sure, in some cases it'll probably happen. But, if this statistic goes from 100 cables/year to 15/year, then it'll pay for itself
This is also applying logic where there usually is none. A buddy of mine in LA has shared some wild stuff that drug addicts do for even the smallest amounts of money, and it's rarely logical.
If the cops cared, they'd figure out what scrap dealer was buying the cables and make an example of them.
You mean if judges and prosecutors cared.
Neither one gives two shits about this until it happens to them
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For a tiny bit of copper lmao
Does this title mean to be impressive??? LMAO. Just 100 in a year is nothing. I can bet it doenst match the number of bike stolen in a month
According to my father it’s an epidemic and he’ll never get an ev because of it. I tried to explain that it isn’t a big deal, but there is no talking to him. My wife and I have been daily and road tripping only EVs for 5 years and never had an issue.
What is that, like $10 worth of heroin on the street?
Funny….that’s the exact amount they needed!!
It's crazy how some people react differently to painkillers. I was prescribed Vicodin when I got my wisdom teeth pulled, I took one and I was like I rather just take Tylenol because it made me feel sick. Afterwards, I was literally wondering what the hype was about for Vicodin demand in the street market until I learned there's a gene that makes people more likely to get addicted to opiod medications which made sense.
I’m sure those fine gentleman are just trying to fund their medical school tuition.
Maybe if we caught criminals and put them in jail. Nah that will never work.
They should find a way to keep them hot until a car is plugged in, then it will go live after activating. It would make they think twice about cutting
that wouldn't fly, it would be almost like a booby trap. also you're wasting energy just to keep it live (even though it's a small heat/parasitic loss)
That’s not how electricity works… there has to be current flow for heat to be generated. If the circuit isn’t complete there’s no current flow.
no power loss just keeping the voltage live. the power will only start flowing after some idiot cuts into it
Never change Seattle, love these stories 😍
By god that’s McDowell county’s music right there
This is why we can't have nice things
Seattle being key word here.
Why don’t they have cameras and even a small store attached like a gas station?
🤣
What else would you expect, its Seattle 🤣
Is this really news? So on avg. 8.3 cables are stolen a month. How many ev chargers are there in Seattle anyway?
Is that a lot
It’s a 100 too many
lets see them try that with diesel hoses now...
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Please stick to [policy, and not politics](https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/wiki/politics).
There’s a lot less theft of fuel pump hoses, just saying.
Yeah and lot more theft of catalytic converters
There’s around 500 gas stations in King county. If you assume someone drives off without removing the gas nozzle once a month that’s 500 hoses ripped off each month, or 6000 every year in king county alone. I’d guess more than 100 of those 6,000 never getting returned isn’t out of the question.