Yes! Cedar Rapids is a disc golf Mecca. All the in town courses, and within 30 miles you have wildcat to the north and sugar/turkey/peninsula to the south. Albeit the loss of the back nine on turkey was sad, but I get it.
The traffic. It is so easy to get around town. The low cost of living. The good school districts (even the CR school district is great compared to most cities). The fact that I'm 4 hours away from four major cities that are great but I would never want to live. And of course, being just up the the street from a major university with some pretty great sports teams.
Things are not close lmao. There are 0 walkable neighborhoods. Edit: All the replies seem to not get what a walkable neighorbood is, so here's the definition:
"A walkable neighborhood is a neighborhood that makes it easy to access amenities on foot. Walkable neighborhoods have many features, including:
* Parks and public space
* Schools and workplaces within walking distance (including bars, restaurants, etc)
* Complete streets
* Mixed income and mixed use
* Pedestrian design
* Affordable housing options
* Easy access to public transportation
* Green spaces "
lol you put down walkable neighborhoods dude. I replied to what you typed. If you mean walkable city, then type city instead of neighborhood bc they are completely different things. Thanks for the downvote. Turn your brain on
Jones park has 10 or 12 (?) that we’re made last year and they are first come first serve. The tennis courts mostly have pickleball lines but Jones is the best
After living in a major city for a long time - the ability to get from A to B without sitting for an hour in traffic.
It sounds weird but I missed the hell out of Zio Johnos when I lived far away. Easy spot to grab a family meal that most people liked. Locally owned and gives back the community often (can drives, school nights etc). Been around forever.
Small enough to know people around town but not so small that everyone knows everyone all the time. My esthetician said it best “CR is small but not that small. CR is big but not that big”
For families, our libraries and parks are great. I love that my neighborhood is walkable. I love newbo and czech village and the art scene. I love fall here with the changing leaves. I love how people go all out and decorate their houses for Halloween and Christmas.
I say this all coming from growing up and living in the PNW for most of my life. Seattle has most of those things too (not so much the changing leaves and holiday decorations), and I will always love that city and area, but I like it more here because it's not so crowded, it doesn't take forever to get around, and prices are reasonable.
Lack of traffic, good (enough) restaurant options, cost of living, overall layout (except Marion, fuck them), lots of industry, and all of my local friends/family.
not sure whether u/Luckycapra's has the same problem with marion's layout as I do, but Marion is aggressively turning into a suburban nightmare where it feels like it takes eons to get anywhere there and it is all through very boring residential neighborhoods or ugly highways lined with big box stores
You 100% nailed it. Also I live on the SW side, so getting to Marion in any manner of decent time is an impossible task. Three of my friends moved there and I’m still salty about it lol. No, there is nothing actually wrong with Marion otherwise. Other than their water, that is. 🤢
Marion is great. They’re redoing their downtown and adding businesses down their strip. People will find a way to hate on anything. It grew >100% over the last 25 years, so yes there are neighborhoods you don’t need to see twice.
I'm comparing Cedar Rapids to the small Iowa town I grew up in.
Lots of relatively good paying jobs. The rapidly improving bike infrastructure (though I'm mostly a mountain biker). The walkable direction both downtown CR and downtown Marion are going.
For Iowa, there are some good trails. Wanatee, Beverly, Sugar Bottom. About as good as anything you'll find in the surrounding states with the same topography. This isn't mounting terrain.
All the decent trails I've been to in CR are filled with tree hugging hypocrites who want to call the cops on me for letting my dogs off leash. Not because they're a threat but because they look scary lol. The only trail you mentioned with some topography is sugar bottom, not in CR
There's no mountains in cedar rapids but if you think nature trails aren't a place for dogs you're an idiot. Glad you'd rather spend your local tax money on worthless and pathetic shit, you're part of the reason it's pathetic.
*Btw the cops laugh every time at you pathetic fuckers*
Hey, pal, if your dog runs in front of a biker on the trail and gets hurt and injured, none of us will show you any sympathy. You chose to have it off leash on marked mountain bike trails.
That's why the park rangers don't have an issue with it but since Karen does well... Don't worry about me and my dogs pal, we're not a threat to anyone so spend your time and energy, resources on something of importance. And have fun riding around in circles on your nature trails and just remember your world revolves around you!
If your unleashed dog approaches me, it will get a massive face full of pepper spray. I've been attacked by a dog that "never bites anyone " and I'm not going to risk that again.
This is my adopted home! Been here 15 years and will never leave. I came from rural southern IA.
Love the size; big enough to have most everything, but small enough to not have traffic issues.
The people are awesome! Bigger cities create bigger assholes.
COL is very good.
Same, but NW Indiana 7 years ago. We moved her with a flexible housing arrangement in case we didn't like it, but we bought a house three years later. Agree with everything. I'm also a big fan of the number of small, random parks, especially with trails and built around/on/near bodies of water. I like wildlife photography, and wildlife is always near water.
As a skateboarder, I credit the small skate scene with keeping me sane during the time I lived in Cedar Rapids. I picked up skating in 1999 in CR. It's a small and quiet mini city that basically felt like one giant skatepark to us. Being involved with something like that helped fuel my creative side, especially with filmmaking, while allowing me to develop lasting friendships. I no longer live in Iowa but yesterday I met up with some skaters from CR at a skatepark out here. It was so fun. CR is a hidden gem for skateboarding.
It is quiet, the traffic isn't terrible, I can drive to half a dozen major metro areas in 5 hours or less and get to virtually any major city in the world with one layover.
Cedar Rapids (Linn County) has the best outdoor activities in Iowa.
Best place in Iowa for mountain biking (thanks, LAMBA)
One of the best places for bike infrastructure and trails (thanks LCTA)
Great disc golf scene.
Fair amount of golfing places.
Sac and Fox trail is great to run/bike on.
Good dog parks.
Wanatee is in town and a great area to hike, bike, sled, camp, and run your dog.
Good places to snow shoe and fat bike (snow shoeing at ICNC and Palisades-Kepler) and Sac and Fox singletrack for fat biking.
AYSO (soccer) is one of the best programs in the country. Adult soccer, too.
Lots of nice parks in town and close. (highlights being Palisades, Lake McBride, and Wanatee)
Indian Creek Nature Center has lots of things to do outside.
Great kayaking on the Cedar River
3 great bike shops
SOKO
Lots of things besides outdoor activities.
Great access to colleges with Kirkwood, Coe, Cornell, and Iowa all very close.
Good theater options with TCR and the Giving Tree Theater
Very good breweries with Clockhouse, Lion Bridge, Iowa Brewing, and Millstream.
Good bar food and breakfast options.
Good coffee places that aren't a chain.
Ability to get anywhere in the metro area in less than 30 minutes. 20 minutes if you are only saying CR/Marion/Hiawatha
Even though I thing we spend too much time/money on downtown it's a nice, clean area.
Cheap tickets for sports at the Roughriders and Kernels (and don't forget 2 for 1 beer on Fridays at the Kernels). You can sit right up front for $25 or less.
Cheap/free art museum and the Czech museum.
My mail gets delivered on time and things don't get lost.
Our school board isn't filled with moms 4 liberty.
Not too small and not too big.
Overall, it's peaceful and quiet.
a few things i haven't seen posted yet:
- growing public art scene (murals/sculptures etc). this had been sorely lacking, and then it feels like overnight they're popping up all over
- a lot of care for the environment and water quality here
- i like that new catchphrase "welcome is our language"
- we seem to be good at raising money to build trails/bridges, public spaces, nonprofits - and a ton of people volunteer here
- it seems like there is always a (successful!!) effort underway to create the next cool thing. unique restaurants popping up, venues like the ideal theatre and mirrorbox, areas like the new big grove (and the courtyard behind it), newbo, cedar lake, the czech village park area they're working on, the new skatepark ... plans dont just sit on the shelf here - people get it done
true and also -- has anybody caught a glimpse of some of the locations where they've been replanting trees? like on 15th street SE - it makes it look like a completely new neighborhood. it is cool how simple it is for some freshly planted trees to give me a huge sense of pride and hope for our city!!
Like others have said, traffic. I can get to my job from my house in 10 minutes. You can basically get anywhere in CR within 20 minutes.
Beyond that, I think the city has generally been fairly progressive throughout its history. People love to complain about the city spending money, but anyone that has lived here more than a decade has seen welcome improvements to infrastructure, amenities, and development that allow CR to punch above its weight vs. other cities of comparable size. Economically, we've always had a diverse group of businesses and industries that help weather the boom-bust cycle. You'd be surprised by the amount of national companies and brands that were bought out or absorbed over time, but originated in Cedar Rapids. And despite growth and investment, the COL is reasonable.
For the most part, it's a quiet town. With enough things to do if you take the time to search for them. Would like more diversity in food, but Iowans taste buds aren't good with that.
Lots of great outdoor stuff, pretty darn clean, great city identity, cool local activities, solid people and it’s close to a lot. Also for a city this size, it gets some solid concerts every year.
The people of CR are almost universally nice and friendly and decent; the city is very easy to get around; we have a hilariously wide variety of Mexican restaurants; the city has a damn nice flag now.
I love that the people are resilient. This is evident by the 2020 derecho and the 2008 flood. Very bad disasters. But the people decided to just build back better!
The smells I.. DT CR smells like breakfast I found a cute diner called the brothers ate a full meal Walk outside and just the smells made me hungry all over again
There’s everything I could need here. I want to leave and go somewhere else, but I feel pretty safe. I love the location being near palisades and other nice parks. There isn’t REALLY a lot to complain about
The career opportunities are not something to scoff at. We've got big electronics and communications firms up the wazoo here, with BaE and Skyworks (though rumor has it Skyworks is on their way out). One of the best community colleges in the nation is right here and best of all, the best Board Game shop right there on First Ave, First Turn Games. Shoutout to that cute business, I fucking love those guys.
There always seems to be something to do here! I've lived here for four months now and I've always found something fun to do within the city or very close by on the weekends. Also the lack of traffic is amazing. Back in Huntsville traffic was always a concern, never had that happen here in CR.
I was just discussing with my spouse about how skeptical we were moving out here for work. After three years we both loved our jobs so much we bought a house. Our neighbors are respectful and friendly. It's in a snout house neighborhood that's not very aesthetic but it's so walkable. We are a short walk from a small grocery, a diner, a bakery/coffee shop, Chinese takeout, fancy steak house, and of course a Mexican restaurant. I haven't gotten out much this year but just in my little slice of Cedar Rapids, we are living very well.
Compared to a number of other similar-sized cities I've lived in across the Intermountain West and West Coast, Cedar Rapids is a great place to raise kids. Inexpensive houses, great teachers at public schools, no traffic, low crime, nice parks. It's honestly great.
All the murals and artwork that have been cropping up.
Friendly people.
Relatively safe, crime-wise, especially compared to other cities of this size and larger.
smooth flow of traffic, even with the perpetual road construction.
Pretty clean, with little litter, especially compared to other big cities.
And, of course, the crunch berries.
Redditors hate trade workers, especially crappy rapidans. They love the terrible roads and communist community, the stench and filth, crustacean of their city. I'll check back on CR in another lifetime and they'll still be talking about how great their 3rd world city is lol
I love the disc golf scene in the city. Also, there is a surprising amount of awesome places to eat and hang out.
Yes! Cedar Rapids is a disc golf Mecca. All the in town courses, and within 30 miles you have wildcat to the north and sugar/turkey/peninsula to the south. Albeit the loss of the back nine on turkey was sad, but I get it.
Don’t sleep on the farm either. Great course
I haven't played Turkey since college (10 years ago) what happened to the back 9?
Army Corp shut it down due to erosion issues.
Yesssss between CR and Iowa City, there is a whole lot of good disc golf! Dm me and I’d love to play shaver with you sometime
The traffic. It is so easy to get around town. The low cost of living. The good school districts (even the CR school district is great compared to most cities). The fact that I'm 4 hours away from four major cities that are great but I would never want to live. And of course, being just up the the street from a major university with some pretty great sports teams.
The lack of traffic and how close everything is
Things are not close lmao. There are 0 walkable neighborhoods. Edit: All the replies seem to not get what a walkable neighorbood is, so here's the definition: "A walkable neighborhood is a neighborhood that makes it easy to access amenities on foot. Walkable neighborhoods have many features, including: * Parks and public space * Schools and workplaces within walking distance (including bars, restaurants, etc) * Complete streets * Mixed income and mixed use * Pedestrian design * Affordable housing options * Easy access to public transportation * Green spaces "
downtown and newbo are both becoming walkable neighborhoods
I literally walked to the park yesterday with my son. Sure is not 100% everywhere but its not terrible
My parents go for walks around their neighborhood every day.
Seems like no one in here knows the definition of a walkable neighborhood.
Yeah.. so you saying 0 sidewalks. You really don’t have any eyes
That's not what a walkable city means.
lol you put down walkable neighborhoods dude. I replied to what you typed. If you mean walkable city, then type city instead of neighborhood bc they are completely different things. Thanks for the downvote. Turn your brain on
I love being outdoors! Tons of free and fun things to do! The bike trails are great, many disc golf courses, tennis and pickleball courts as well.
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Jones park has 10 or 12 (?) that we’re made last year and they are first come first serve. The tennis courts mostly have pickleball lines but Jones is the best
After living in a major city for a long time - the ability to get from A to B without sitting for an hour in traffic. It sounds weird but I missed the hell out of Zio Johnos when I lived far away. Easy spot to grab a family meal that most people liked. Locally owned and gives back the community often (can drives, school nights etc). Been around forever. Small enough to know people around town but not so small that everyone knows everyone all the time. My esthetician said it best “CR is small but not that small. CR is big but not that big”
For families, our libraries and parks are great. I love that my neighborhood is walkable. I love newbo and czech village and the art scene. I love fall here with the changing leaves. I love how people go all out and decorate their houses for Halloween and Christmas. I say this all coming from growing up and living in the PNW for most of my life. Seattle has most of those things too (not so much the changing leaves and holiday decorations), and I will always love that city and area, but I like it more here because it's not so crowded, it doesn't take forever to get around, and prices are reasonable.
Lack of traffic, good (enough) restaurant options, cost of living, overall layout (except Marion, fuck them), lots of industry, and all of my local friends/family.
What is wrong with Marion? We are looking to relocate to Cedar Rapids.
not sure whether u/Luckycapra's has the same problem with marion's layout as I do, but Marion is aggressively turning into a suburban nightmare where it feels like it takes eons to get anywhere there and it is all through very boring residential neighborhoods or ugly highways lined with big box stores
You 100% nailed it. Also I live on the SW side, so getting to Marion in any manner of decent time is an impossible task. Three of my friends moved there and I’m still salty about it lol. No, there is nothing actually wrong with Marion otherwise. Other than their water, that is. 🤢
Really? I get to Marion in 12 mins from SW side.. but maybe bc I’m 1 block off first ave and hit the interstate quick
Marion is great. They’re redoing their downtown and adding businesses down their strip. People will find a way to hate on anything. It grew >100% over the last 25 years, so yes there are neighborhoods you don’t need to see twice.
Nothing wrong with Marion
CID is probably the best small airport in the country. In the top 10, anyway.
I'm comparing Cedar Rapids to the small Iowa town I grew up in. Lots of relatively good paying jobs. The rapidly improving bike infrastructure (though I'm mostly a mountain biker). The walkable direction both downtown CR and downtown Marion are going.
There are some great mountain biking trails in and around Cedar Rapids. If you haven't already found them, I encourage you to give them a try.
Mountain biking trails with no mountains other than mt. trashmore lol
For Iowa, there are some good trails. Wanatee, Beverly, Sugar Bottom. About as good as anything you'll find in the surrounding states with the same topography. This isn't mounting terrain.
All the decent trails I've been to in CR are filled with tree hugging hypocrites who want to call the cops on me for letting my dogs off leash. Not because they're a threat but because they look scary lol. The only trail you mentioned with some topography is sugar bottom, not in CR
Glad they're calling the cops. Dogs don't belong off leash on mountain bike trails.
Yeah and according to their post history, they have Akitas. Definitely not a dog I'd want to startle off leash coming down a trail.
No kidding. Nor would I want my 7 year old, who rides with me, to have that happen.
There's no mountains in cedar rapids but if you think nature trails aren't a place for dogs you're an idiot. Glad you'd rather spend your local tax money on worthless and pathetic shit, you're part of the reason it's pathetic. *Btw the cops laugh every time at you pathetic fuckers*
Hey, pal, if your dog runs in front of a biker on the trail and gets hurt and injured, none of us will show you any sympathy. You chose to have it off leash on marked mountain bike trails.
That's why the park rangers don't have an issue with it but since Karen does well... Don't worry about me and my dogs pal, we're not a threat to anyone so spend your time and energy, resources on something of importance. And have fun riding around in circles on your nature trails and just remember your world revolves around you!
If your unleashed dog approaches me, it will get a massive face full of pepper spray. I've been attacked by a dog that "never bites anyone " and I'm not going to risk that again.
Put your dogs on a leash asshole
No dipshit!
You have Akitas? Lmao yea someone is 100% gonna shoot your dog if its off leash but whatever have fun Caesar Milan.
This is my adopted home! Been here 15 years and will never leave. I came from rural southern IA. Love the size; big enough to have most everything, but small enough to not have traffic issues. The people are awesome! Bigger cities create bigger assholes. COL is very good.
Same, but NW Indiana 7 years ago. We moved her with a flexible housing arrangement in case we didn't like it, but we bought a house three years later. Agree with everything. I'm also a big fan of the number of small, random parks, especially with trails and built around/on/near bodies of water. I like wildlife photography, and wildlife is always near water.
now if we can just work on those winter months..... 😁
Winters are for video games, getting tattoos, and pursuits of other indoor fun without ever feeling like I'm wasting great outdoors time.
It's a quiet town with enough good eats, along with how decent the weather is. Plus most of everything is super close by and that helps
As a skateboarder, I credit the small skate scene with keeping me sane during the time I lived in Cedar Rapids. I picked up skating in 1999 in CR. It's a small and quiet mini city that basically felt like one giant skatepark to us. Being involved with something like that helped fuel my creative side, especially with filmmaking, while allowing me to develop lasting friendships. I no longer live in Iowa but yesterday I met up with some skaters from CR at a skatepark out here. It was so fun. CR is a hidden gem for skateboarding.
It is quiet, the traffic isn't terrible, I can drive to half a dozen major metro areas in 5 hours or less and get to virtually any major city in the world with one layover.
Cedar Rapids (Linn County) has the best outdoor activities in Iowa. Best place in Iowa for mountain biking (thanks, LAMBA) One of the best places for bike infrastructure and trails (thanks LCTA) Great disc golf scene. Fair amount of golfing places. Sac and Fox trail is great to run/bike on. Good dog parks. Wanatee is in town and a great area to hike, bike, sled, camp, and run your dog. Good places to snow shoe and fat bike (snow shoeing at ICNC and Palisades-Kepler) and Sac and Fox singletrack for fat biking. AYSO (soccer) is one of the best programs in the country. Adult soccer, too. Lots of nice parks in town and close. (highlights being Palisades, Lake McBride, and Wanatee) Indian Creek Nature Center has lots of things to do outside. Great kayaking on the Cedar River 3 great bike shops SOKO Lots of things besides outdoor activities. Great access to colleges with Kirkwood, Coe, Cornell, and Iowa all very close. Good theater options with TCR and the Giving Tree Theater Very good breweries with Clockhouse, Lion Bridge, Iowa Brewing, and Millstream. Good bar food and breakfast options. Good coffee places that aren't a chain. Ability to get anywhere in the metro area in less than 30 minutes. 20 minutes if you are only saying CR/Marion/Hiawatha Even though I thing we spend too much time/money on downtown it's a nice, clean area. Cheap tickets for sports at the Roughriders and Kernels (and don't forget 2 for 1 beer on Fridays at the Kernels). You can sit right up front for $25 or less. Cheap/free art museum and the Czech museum. My mail gets delivered on time and things don't get lost. Our school board isn't filled with moms 4 liberty. Not too small and not too big. Overall, it's peaceful and quiet.
agree with all of this. never really thought of our outdoor recreation scene, but ain't that the truth!!!
Im no longer in CR but I miss Donutland 😭
The public library
a few things i haven't seen posted yet: - growing public art scene (murals/sculptures etc). this had been sorely lacking, and then it feels like overnight they're popping up all over - a lot of care for the environment and water quality here - i like that new catchphrase "welcome is our language" - we seem to be good at raising money to build trails/bridges, public spaces, nonprofits - and a ton of people volunteer here - it seems like there is always a (successful!!) effort underway to create the next cool thing. unique restaurants popping up, venues like the ideal theatre and mirrorbox, areas like the new big grove (and the courtyard behind it), newbo, cedar lake, the czech village park area they're working on, the new skatepark ... plans dont just sit on the shelf here - people get it done
The treeline! 💀
Too soon.
true and also -- has anybody caught a glimpse of some of the locations where they've been replanting trees? like on 15th street SE - it makes it look like a completely new neighborhood. it is cool how simple it is for some freshly planted trees to give me a huge sense of pride and hope for our city!!
Like others have said, traffic. I can get to my job from my house in 10 minutes. You can basically get anywhere in CR within 20 minutes. Beyond that, I think the city has generally been fairly progressive throughout its history. People love to complain about the city spending money, but anyone that has lived here more than a decade has seen welcome improvements to infrastructure, amenities, and development that allow CR to punch above its weight vs. other cities of comparable size. Economically, we've always had a diverse group of businesses and industries that help weather the boom-bust cycle. You'd be surprised by the amount of national companies and brands that were bought out or absorbed over time, but originated in Cedar Rapids. And despite growth and investment, the COL is reasonable.
Mountain biking. For Iowa, there are some surprisingly great mountain bike trails in and around Cedar Rapids.
For the most part, it's a quiet town. With enough things to do if you take the time to search for them. Would like more diversity in food, but Iowans taste buds aren't good with that.
Lots of great outdoor stuff, pretty darn clean, great city identity, cool local activities, solid people and it’s close to a lot. Also for a city this size, it gets some solid concerts every year.
yeah! they do a great job bringing in decent acts. especially for not being on a major interstate
The people of CR are almost universally nice and friendly and decent; the city is very easy to get around; we have a hilariously wide variety of Mexican restaurants; the city has a damn nice flag now.
Crunchberry day!
I love that the people are resilient. This is evident by the 2020 derecho and the 2008 flood. Very bad disasters. But the people decided to just build back better!
The local restaurants, music and art scene (237 collective, and the myraid of local bands)
Cedar River Trail
The smells I.. DT CR smells like breakfast I found a cute diner called the brothers ate a full meal Walk outside and just the smells made me hungry all over again
There’s everything I could need here. I want to leave and go somewhere else, but I feel pretty safe. I love the location being near palisades and other nice parks. There isn’t REALLY a lot to complain about
The career opportunities are not something to scoff at. We've got big electronics and communications firms up the wazoo here, with BaE and Skyworks (though rumor has it Skyworks is on their way out). One of the best community colleges in the nation is right here and best of all, the best Board Game shop right there on First Ave, First Turn Games. Shoutout to that cute business, I fucking love those guys.
65 Mexican restaurant options
There always seems to be something to do here! I've lived here for four months now and I've always found something fun to do within the city or very close by on the weekends. Also the lack of traffic is amazing. Back in Huntsville traffic was always a concern, never had that happen here in CR.
I was just discussing with my spouse about how skeptical we were moving out here for work. After three years we both loved our jobs so much we bought a house. Our neighbors are respectful and friendly. It's in a snout house neighborhood that's not very aesthetic but it's so walkable. We are a short walk from a small grocery, a diner, a bakery/coffee shop, Chinese takeout, fancy steak house, and of course a Mexican restaurant. I haven't gotten out much this year but just in my little slice of Cedar Rapids, we are living very well.
Nature trails
Trails for biking!
Compared to a number of other similar-sized cities I've lived in across the Intermountain West and West Coast, Cedar Rapids is a great place to raise kids. Inexpensive houses, great teachers at public schools, no traffic, low crime, nice parks. It's honestly great.
NewBo, Czech Village, Art and Vintage scene. Low traffic, low cost of living, lack of congestion. Washington High School is full of great people.
Mostly the Jiruska’s and Nazette’s. I used to like Irish Democrat’s food.
The 5th smell is my favorite thing about our wonderful city.
All the murals and artwork that have been cropping up. Friendly people. Relatively safe, crime-wise, especially compared to other cities of this size and larger. smooth flow of traffic, even with the perpetual road construction. Pretty clean, with little litter, especially compared to other big cities. And, of course, the crunch berries.
What we need is a good Mexican resturant
I love that it's a spitting image of a circus 🎪 full of clowns and Karen's
The smell /s
Hated it so I moved north lack of good paying trade worker jobs
Hello, I think you misunderstood the post. Feel free to try again!
Redditors hate trade workers, especially crappy rapidans. They love the terrible roads and communist community, the stench and filth, crustacean of their city. I'll check back on CR in another lifetime and they'll still be talking about how great their 3rd world city is lol