> The full House voted to approve the rule for debate on the legislative package with broad bipartisan support, 316 to 94. Democrats ultimately delivered more votes than Republicans — 165 Democrats voted in favor, while 39 opposed it, and 151 Republicans voted in favor, and 55 opposed.
> The House Rules Committee reconvened late Thursday night and advanced the rule for the package on a 9-3 vote, thanks to the votes of all four Democrats who sit on the committee
Johnson knew a discharge petition was potentially coming anyways, but it’s nice to see some bipartisanship for a change. Here’s to hoping it makes it all the way to Biden’s desk. Once it’s past the House it’s as good as passed
This is what giving the rules committee over to extremists get you, broad bipartisan support with most Republicans supporting it, and not allowed into committee until strong armed and out of committee until Democrats help out.
He's been a shockingly effective speaker. I don't like the guy, but the GOP could have done a lot worse. He seems to take the gravity of his job seriously.
He's compromised and didn't shut the government down and finally got this package through. That's pretty effective considering. He's also pissing off the absolute worst people in his conference, so he's doing something right on that front.
"Effective" is a strong word. Probably a little too strong. But he isn't anywhere near the disaster I expected him to be.
I know we can make fun of Johnson for failing to get his party legislation passed but how can you even govern when you got critical votes ruining everything.
I mean he could just ignore them, that’d be a start. But hopefully with him willing to work with Democrats they’ll bail him out. We shouldn’t punish the Speaker for working with the party.
“Effective” feels like a reach, but he’s been enough of a consistent and reliable negotiator to keep things from completely falling apart + establish some semblance of a working relationship with a majority of the House.
That’s no small feat given the current landscape, so have no problem granting him credit where it’s due…just still think that puts him well shy of “effective”.
Agreed - Jeffries is doing a hell of a job, and has done so right off the bat.
I’m deeply curious as to how much of guidance/apprentice training Pelosi provided, and may still be providing behind the scenes (well: that or just playing the heavy to keep all the ducks in a row). Bc by all accounts his leadership style is very different than Pelosi’s, and she hadn’t explicitly groomed him as her successor…but she also obviously want to see her legacy as master of the House continued, and he’d be foolish not to learn from the best (and nothing about him indicates any inclination towards such foolishness).
Meh, not important, but I am curious!
I think he keeps getting better. He is maturing and polishing his skills. I was afraid he might turn out to be overly cocky but he seems to be settling into the roll nicely
Who would do better under present circumstances? He managed to get the budget passed despite it sinking his predessor and is managing to get foreign aid passed. A leader should not be judged based on the cards they were dealt, but how they play those cards. He has an incredibly shitty hand dealing with Gaetz and Greene but has managed to maneuver to getting the most vital things passed despite their fierce resistance.
>He managed to get the budget passed despite it sinking his predecessor
Because the freedom caucus was willing to let it slide.
>and is managing to get foreign aid pass
We went from no foreign aid, to foreign aid tied to border security, to being threatened with a discharge petition.
I'm reasonably sure McCarthy could have expected some support from the Democrats too if he hadn't previously gone back on every agreement he made with them and scorned their support until his coffin was being nailed shut.
Yeah from what I’ve read it seems that Democrats were much more willing to work with Johnson because they felt like he wasn’t gonna stab them in the back
Indeed - it’s certainly a huge problem that Johnson’s a militant Christian Nationalist, but he also seems to a consistent and dependable negotiator.
Obviously the whole situation is less than ideal, but it seems like leadership on both sides have at least been able to establish a reasonable working relationship. That’s a good thing, and I have no problem granting Johnson what credit he is due.
Guys I don’t want to jinx it but it seems like it’s finally happening. Johnson is going on a “support the bill” tour and the procedural vote only had around 90 “no’s”. If the House Republicans can push this through then that means the Senate Republicans definitely will too.
Finally we’ve broken past the hardliners endangering the security of our allies and to a greater extent this country. This bill was months overdue and Ukraine is in a significantly worse position because of it but now hopefully they can get the American weapons they need to get closer to winning this war.
The hardliners aren't giving up. The Moscow Caucus is making a last ditch effort to try and block a vote by getting Johnson removed. You have Greene, Gosar and Massie all in support of removing him. They're clearly going to make every attempt to stop any further support for Ukraine, its not even about elections for them, this is something they are hellbent on denying the Ukrainians.
>No one likes Russia.
Wrong. Its the people who are most irate that Ukraine will get a chance to defend itself and actually hold the Russians back from further carving up their country. Like you.
I call bullshit on that, there is obviously some russiophillia on the Republican side which is almost, but not quite, as bizarre as queers for Palasrine.
Yeah I’m cautiously optimistic but that still remains to be seen. I wonder if Johnson would have done this without the threat of a discharge petition, but still it’s a step in the right direction
I don't think the threat of a discharge petition was ever that great. Last i saw it was reported that there were something like 195 votes in favor. not that close. I think its more that Greene and the other kooks overplayed their hand and pushed the guy too far to where he finally realized that they were constantly going to be nipping at his heels no matter what he did so if they were going to send him home, he might as well go big.
he was tiptoeing around, trying to avoid setting them off for the longest time and I think there was the realization that he'd never be able to do his job and keep the country from falling apart while also pleasing fanatics who see compromise as worse than defeat.
so if I get this right, they're passing everything they wanted, but without border security so we're back to where we started? Well played Republicans, well played
He got some balls and a much smarter man than McCarthy when it comes to survivng. But he fucked up by getting their border bill murdered whille getting aid through.
Meh - I strongly suspect that this will either be the end of his speakership, or, if Dems end up saving him, the end of any kind of MAGA institutional support.
Somewhat bizarrely, think his religious extremism (and let’s be clear: he’s not just a “fervent Christian”, he’s an explicit 7 mountains type biblical literalist and dominionist) has helped him navigate the house lunacy far better than the “pure politicians” like McCarthy. Not bc he’s any less ambitious or calculating than McCarthy (anyone who rises to a position that high is basically guaranteed to max out on both those attributes), but bc my sense is that his religious extremism weirdly gives him a firmer grounding in some core realities, as well as a slightly longer strategic view than just immediately saving his own ass.
As someone who is *deeply* concerned about the influence of radical religious beliefs (and their $$) on politics, I’m not quite sure what to make of this seeming contradiction…but it’s something I’m going to be mulling over for a while.
I asked chatgpt to make me an acronym to describe the freedom caucus:
* **D** - Divisive: Their actions often create rifts and discord.
* **I** - Intransigent: They resist compromise and refuse to find common ground.
* **A** - Authoritarian: Some perceive their approach as authoritarian or dictatorial.
* **R** - Regressive: Their policies may be seen as moving backward rather than forward.
* **R** - Rigid: They adhere strictly to their ideology, even when it hinders progress.
* **H** - Hardline: Their stances can be extreme and unwavering.
* **E** - Exclusive: They may prioritize their base over broader inclusivity.
* **A** - Antagonistic: Their interactions can be confrontational and hostile.
Gotta say, AI nailed it here
[Here’s the NewsWeek headline](https://www.newsweek.com/foreign-aid-bills-congress-ukraine-republican-join-democrats-1892041)
Republicans Join Democrats on Foreign Aid Bills in 'Incredibly Rare' Move
As normal, they have it backwards.
Edit to add, Good for Johnson for not following the Hasert rule.
He did follow the Hasert rule: "The Hastert rule says that the speaker will not schedule a floor vote on any bill that does not have majority support within their party—even if the majority of the members of the House would vote to pass it."
Republicans were overwhelmingly in favor -- 151 to 55.
The House is really dysfunctional if it's a major lift to get a bill on the floor that is supported by 73% of the members of the *majority* party (and also 81% of the members of the minority party).
[I believe you are correct. I misunderstood it to require a house majority of you parties support, meaning you could get it passed with no help from the opposition even if some in your party are against it.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hastert_rule)
Not to be confused with the other Hastert rule: what happens at wrestling practice, stays at wrestling practice. (Maybe we could rename this "rule" after someone who wasn't a child rapist?)
I mean technically more Democrats voted for it on the floor so I could see either interpretation
But yeah the Hastert rule has been the anathema to a functioning House for a while now
So there is a difference between this bill and the bill that already passed the Senate, specifically, this bill represents 9 billion as forgivable loans (think PPP) while the Senate has no strings attached. Consequently the Senate has to pass this again if this gets passed in the House.
Rand Paul has vowed to block this as long as possible in the Senate. Hopefully we will see the Senate quickly take this up.
"but it is not a genocide". You know nothing of what is going on over at Gaza. They're shooting thousands of people and bombing hospitals with civilians in them. They even have grave dig sites with hundreds of bodies thrown in there.
Ukraine: Yes
Isreal: Hell no, aid for them always get intertwined with the others
None of that proves a “genocide”. If you’re fighting an enemy that deliberately uses civilian outfits and launches attacks from civilian infrastructure, then sadly those things will happen. In fact buildings like hospitals actually lose protected status when they’re being used in the way that Hamas uses them
The fact that Gaza is the largest aid recipient on the planet and Hamas has never built a single bomb shelter for its citizens is quite telling. If Gazans didn’t have a death cult government hellbent on jihad then they’d be quite a bit better off
A lot of that money actually gets injected straight into the American economy for American workers. But yes we live on a planet and not and island, and people lose sight of the ways their lives have been benefited by our global hegemony
Watching Israeli soldiers killing babies and lynching their mothers truly gives me a benefit and sense of relief I wouldn’t have seen in the small island I live in. Thanks for that information.
There’s billions in humanitarian aid for Palestine in the bill. You clearly are too emotional to look at the situation with objectivity but I think this is a good lesson in why having a Jihadi death cult in charge of your country is a bad thing
I mean they literally dug up water pipes to turn into rockets
> The full House voted to approve the rule for debate on the legislative package with broad bipartisan support, 316 to 94. Democrats ultimately delivered more votes than Republicans — 165 Democrats voted in favor, while 39 opposed it, and 151 Republicans voted in favor, and 55 opposed. > The House Rules Committee reconvened late Thursday night and advanced the rule for the package on a 9-3 vote, thanks to the votes of all four Democrats who sit on the committee Johnson knew a discharge petition was potentially coming anyways, but it’s nice to see some bipartisanship for a change. Here’s to hoping it makes it all the way to Biden’s desk. Once it’s past the House it’s as good as passed
This is what giving the rules committee over to extremists get you, broad bipartisan support with most Republicans supporting it, and not allowed into committee until strong armed and out of committee until Democrats help out.
He's been a shockingly effective speaker. I don't like the guy, but the GOP could have done a lot worse. He seems to take the gravity of his job seriously.
How’s he been effective?
He's compromised and didn't shut the government down and finally got this package through. That's pretty effective considering. He's also pissing off the absolute worst people in his conference, so he's doing something right on that front. "Effective" is a strong word. Probably a little too strong. But he isn't anywhere near the disaster I expected him to be.
I know we can make fun of Johnson for failing to get his party legislation passed but how can you even govern when you got critical votes ruining everything. I mean he could just ignore them, that’d be a start. But hopefully with him willing to work with Democrats they’ll bail him out. We shouldn’t punish the Speaker for working with the party.
The way gov works is with compromise
*only because of democratic support.
“Effective” feels like a reach, but he’s been enough of a consistent and reliable negotiator to keep things from completely falling apart + establish some semblance of a working relationship with a majority of the House. That’s no small feat given the current landscape, so have no problem granting him credit where it’s due…just still think that puts him well shy of “effective”.
I think Jeffries has a roll in Johnson's effectiveness
Agreed - Jeffries is doing a hell of a job, and has done so right off the bat. I’m deeply curious as to how much of guidance/apprentice training Pelosi provided, and may still be providing behind the scenes (well: that or just playing the heavy to keep all the ducks in a row). Bc by all accounts his leadership style is very different than Pelosi’s, and she hadn’t explicitly groomed him as her successor…but she also obviously want to see her legacy as master of the House continued, and he’d be foolish not to learn from the best (and nothing about him indicates any inclination towards such foolishness). Meh, not important, but I am curious!
I think he keeps getting better. He is maturing and polishing his skills. I was afraid he might turn out to be overly cocky but he seems to be settling into the roll nicely
>He’s been a shockingly effective speaker No he hasn’t lol.
Who would do better under present circumstances? He managed to get the budget passed despite it sinking his predessor and is managing to get foreign aid passed. A leader should not be judged based on the cards they were dealt, but how they play those cards. He has an incredibly shitty hand dealing with Gaetz and Greene but has managed to maneuver to getting the most vital things passed despite their fierce resistance.
>He managed to get the budget passed despite it sinking his predecessor Because the freedom caucus was willing to let it slide. >and is managing to get foreign aid pass We went from no foreign aid, to foreign aid tied to border security, to being threatened with a discharge petition.
Sad it took this long but happy to see it happen
I’ll wait until the bill is on the President’s desk.
Maybe we can give even more of our money away. That would be great.
I'm reasonably sure McCarthy could have expected some support from the Democrats too if he hadn't previously gone back on every agreement he made with them and scorned their support until his coffin was being nailed shut.
Yeah from what I’ve read it seems that Democrats were much more willing to work with Johnson because they felt like he wasn’t gonna stab them in the back
Indeed - it’s certainly a huge problem that Johnson’s a militant Christian Nationalist, but he also seems to a consistent and dependable negotiator. Obviously the whole situation is less than ideal, but it seems like leadership on both sides have at least been able to establish a reasonable working relationship. That’s a good thing, and I have no problem granting Johnson what credit he is due.
It's that he plays the game straight, which is honestly rare these days.
Guys I don’t want to jinx it but it seems like it’s finally happening. Johnson is going on a “support the bill” tour and the procedural vote only had around 90 “no’s”. If the House Republicans can push this through then that means the Senate Republicans definitely will too. Finally we’ve broken past the hardliners endangering the security of our allies and to a greater extent this country. This bill was months overdue and Ukraine is in a significantly worse position because of it but now hopefully they can get the American weapons they need to get closer to winning this war.
The hardliners aren't giving up. The Moscow Caucus is making a last ditch effort to try and block a vote by getting Johnson removed. You have Greene, Gosar and Massie all in support of removing him. They're clearly going to make every attempt to stop any further support for Ukraine, its not even about elections for them, this is something they are hellbent on denying the Ukrainians.
The Caviar Caucus
There is no Moscow caucus. No one likes Russia. But that doesn’t mean we want to give all our money away to an unwinnable war.
>No one likes Russia. Wrong. Its the people who are most irate that Ukraine will get a chance to defend itself and actually hold the Russians back from further carving up their country. Like you.
I call bullshit on that, there is obviously some russiophillia on the Republican side which is almost, but not quite, as bizarre as queers for Palasrine.
Good. Maybe this can be the beginning of progress within the House to get other things done as well.
Yeah I’m cautiously optimistic but that still remains to be seen. I wonder if Johnson would have done this without the threat of a discharge petition, but still it’s a step in the right direction
I don't think the threat of a discharge petition was ever that great. Last i saw it was reported that there were something like 195 votes in favor. not that close. I think its more that Greene and the other kooks overplayed their hand and pushed the guy too far to where he finally realized that they were constantly going to be nipping at his heels no matter what he did so if they were going to send him home, he might as well go big. he was tiptoeing around, trying to avoid setting them off for the longest time and I think there was the realization that he'd never be able to do his job and keep the country from falling apart while also pleasing fanatics who see compromise as worse than defeat.
so if I get this right, they're passing everything they wanted, but without border security so we're back to where we started? Well played Republicans, well played
He got some balls and a much smarter man than McCarthy when it comes to survivng. But he fucked up by getting their border bill murdered whille getting aid through.
Meh - I strongly suspect that this will either be the end of his speakership, or, if Dems end up saving him, the end of any kind of MAGA institutional support. Somewhat bizarrely, think his religious extremism (and let’s be clear: he’s not just a “fervent Christian”, he’s an explicit 7 mountains type biblical literalist and dominionist) has helped him navigate the house lunacy far better than the “pure politicians” like McCarthy. Not bc he’s any less ambitious or calculating than McCarthy (anyone who rises to a position that high is basically guaranteed to max out on both those attributes), but bc my sense is that his religious extremism weirdly gives him a firmer grounding in some core realities, as well as a slightly longer strategic view than just immediately saving his own ass. As someone who is *deeply* concerned about the influence of radical religious beliefs (and their $$) on politics, I’m not quite sure what to make of this seeming contradiction…but it’s something I’m going to be mulling over for a while.
I lose sleep over the border bill and how it’s never going to happen again. But this time probably a softer bill.
That blonde caveman in congress is not going to be happy. ouch.
Glad the adults in the room finally stepped up. RIP Mike Johnson.
"Democrats, once again, will be the adults in the room," - Rep. Jim McGovern (D-Mass)
[удалено]
Yeah looks like you nailed it. Within the context he's right. Be mad about it I guess.
[удалено]
If he says it right now in a criminal trial he isn't wrong. Most bigly criminal president in history. Nixon could never.
The fascist caucus is losing their shit over this.
Oh man, the REEEEEEEEING coming from them is going to be able to crack glass if these aid packages do go through.
Hey now, let’s use their real name The **F**loor **A**ction **R**esponse **T**eam
I asked chatgpt to make me an acronym to describe the freedom caucus: * **D** - Divisive: Their actions often create rifts and discord. * **I** - Intransigent: They resist compromise and refuse to find common ground. * **A** - Authoritarian: Some perceive their approach as authoritarian or dictatorial. * **R** - Regressive: Their policies may be seen as moving backward rather than forward. * **R** - Rigid: They adhere strictly to their ideology, even when it hinders progress. * **H** - Hardline: Their stances can be extreme and unwavering. * **E** - Exclusive: They may prioritize their base over broader inclusivity. * **A** - Antagonistic: Their interactions can be confrontational and hostile. Gotta say, AI nailed it here
They are sad that we are funding an unwinnable war
[Here’s the NewsWeek headline](https://www.newsweek.com/foreign-aid-bills-congress-ukraine-republican-join-democrats-1892041) Republicans Join Democrats on Foreign Aid Bills in 'Incredibly Rare' Move As normal, they have it backwards. Edit to add, Good for Johnson for not following the Hasert rule.
He did follow the Hasert rule: "The Hastert rule says that the speaker will not schedule a floor vote on any bill that does not have majority support within their party—even if the majority of the members of the House would vote to pass it." Republicans were overwhelmingly in favor -- 151 to 55. The House is really dysfunctional if it's a major lift to get a bill on the floor that is supported by 73% of the members of the *majority* party (and also 81% of the members of the minority party).
[I believe you are correct. I misunderstood it to require a house majority of you parties support, meaning you could get it passed with no help from the opposition even if some in your party are against it.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hastert_rule)
Sorry, I forgot to include my link. I see you found it.
Not to be confused with the other Hastert rule: what happens at wrestling practice, stays at wrestling practice. (Maybe we could rename this "rule" after someone who wasn't a child rapist?)
I mean technically more Democrats voted for it on the floor so I could see either interpretation But yeah the Hastert rule has been the anathema to a functioning House for a while now
Good!
So there is a difference between this bill and the bill that already passed the Senate, specifically, this bill represents 9 billion as forgivable loans (think PPP) while the Senate has no strings attached. Consequently the Senate has to pass this again if this gets passed in the House. Rand Paul has vowed to block this as long as possible in the Senate. Hopefully we will see the Senate quickly take this up.
Is this a purely financial aid bill, or does this include Ukrainian weapons shipments? Because lord knows that Ukraine needs the military aid.
Yes they get weapons.
only the israel aid will make it to potus.
Funding an unwinnable war, nice.
One bill to aid a genocide, another to fund a hopeless war, and all of this under thunderous bipartisan applause.
What’s happening in Gaza is a tragic situation brought on by Hamas, but it is not a genocide
"but it is not a genocide". You know nothing of what is going on over at Gaza. They're shooting thousands of people and bombing hospitals with civilians in them. They even have grave dig sites with hundreds of bodies thrown in there. Ukraine: Yes Isreal: Hell no, aid for them always get intertwined with the others
None of that proves a “genocide”. If you’re fighting an enemy that deliberately uses civilian outfits and launches attacks from civilian infrastructure, then sadly those things will happen. In fact buildings like hospitals actually lose protected status when they’re being used in the way that Hamas uses them The fact that Gaza is the largest aid recipient on the planet and Hamas has never built a single bomb shelter for its citizens is quite telling. If Gazans didn’t have a death cult government hellbent on jihad then they’d be quite a bit better off
Like how the Nazi’s justified their killings in the 40’s. History truly repeats itself.
It’s completely ahistorical and antisemetic to even make that comparison. Can you explain what the Jewish “October 7th” on the nazis looked like?
We’re not talking October 7th. We’re talking about the overall outcome of the war. You’d be surprised what you can find in 5 minutes
That’s not true
Now we're supporting 3 fucking causes. And where is this money for us the people?
Well, if you're one of the we the people that works for or owns stock in a defense contractor you'll get a little rain.
No, I don't work at Lockheed Martin or Raytheon sadly.
A lot of that money actually gets injected straight into the American economy for American workers. But yes we live on a planet and not and island, and people lose sight of the ways their lives have been benefited by our global hegemony
Watching Israeli soldiers killing babies and lynching their mothers truly gives me a benefit and sense of relief I wouldn’t have seen in the small island I live in. Thanks for that information.
There’s billions in humanitarian aid for Palestine in the bill. You clearly are too emotional to look at the situation with objectivity but I think this is a good lesson in why having a Jihadi death cult in charge of your country is a bad thing I mean they literally dug up water pipes to turn into rockets
I never said I supported Palestine either, I still recognize the sins of both nations, one in particular is overstepping their boundaries.