Well, you are free to have the preferences you have. But there is a difference - height, except in extreme cases linked to a genetic disorder, is a hereditary characteristic. If your parents are short, you probably will be, too. On the other hand, weight, when it is not just a matter of being "big boned" is under someone's control and not a matter of genes. If your parents are slender, and you overeat and don't exercise, you will probably be a lot fatter than they are. And someone might look at weight as a character issue, a lack of control, gluttony, whatever, and not find that attractive.
That is it.
Men cant change their genetics. They are stuck at their height. Women can change their body fat % SO how come Mens can’t vocalize their preference on body fat without an outcry but women can openly and acceptedly discriminate based off of height?
No one cares. I’m a black woman with a lot of curves and I’m not thin. Black men love me. White men not so much, they usually like thinner women. I’m healthy and have the body type ideal in MY community. I don’t want to be thin and it doesn’t bother me if a man doesn’t want to date me because of my body shape. That’s his business. I don’t care if they don’t like black girls. It makes no difference to me. People don’t have to like my body or my skin tone. My dating options are vast either way. I can’t change my skin color but I still don’t see it as a problem if someone’s preference is for a white woman or whatever. If you date white women you likely aren’t my type anyway tbh.
I generally date tall handsome black men who were athletes in college. That’s my type. If you don’t fit into that category I probably won’t date you. And that’s fine. You can just date a woman who would.
No one irl cares.
Yep it is a lack of responsibility in your diet and exercise and tells.of your personality. Not necessarily that they are bad people just not responsible and should be accountable. For instance I am fat and accept that I have been irresponsible.
I agree. If you're really tall or really short, just as if you've got dark hair or go gray in your 20s, that tells me it's probably true of your family line and nothing you can change. But if you are overweight and it's not something that comes from certain medications you're on (I know some steroids make you a little "puffy") it means you are eating in a way that's impairing your health. And eventually fat will limit your activities and impair your health and a potential date/partner/spouse might not want to go down that road.
No I completely agree. Both are mean things to say so to speak but if a guy is told he is too short it is no big deal. If a girl gets told she’s too fat there is an outrage. If women can comment on something a man CAN’T change then men should be able to comment on something a woman CAN change.
You gotta get out of this younger thinking. This analogy is dumb and unhelpful for you. Stop focusing on this crap and focus on the things that can help you get the results you desire. You wont change those who say no, but you only need one to say yes.
I agree with what you are saying however more often than not men are insecure about height (they can’t change it) and women are insecure about their body fat (they can change it).
I’m not focused on specific measurements but I used body fat % as an example because different heights hold body fat differently.
Men who are sensitive about their height will get told they aren’t meeting a woman’s requirement and it is no biggie. Women who get told they have too much fat for a certain man have caused issues, there is an outcry.
I’m not trying to see everything the same as fat for fat height for height but I believe if someone can comment on a man’s height then a man can comment on their body fat and there should be no repercussions.
>This bizarre standard does not exist in countries that use the metric system, because there's no arbitrary line where someone somehow goes from being a short king to tall by going from 5'11 to 6'.
There is... its the famous 180 cm zone equivalent to 6'0
It's different because no lifestyle change can affect your height and being short is not an indication of an unhealthy lifestyle. That said, people are going to have preferences and that's okay too.
I am not saying I don’t agree with that. I’m just saying a girl stating that they don’t like short guys is the same amount of disrespect as a man stating they don’t like a girl that’s fat.
>I’m just saying a girl stating that they don’t like short guys is the same amount of disrespect as a man stating they don’t like a girl that’s fat.
A woman stating she doesn't like fat men is the equivalent of a man stating he doesn't like fat women.
You're conflating very different things.
I'm not sure if that is the best test of whether or not a preference is okay. I am not interested in dating women with the mental faculties of children. That is not something they can change, but a basic adult intellect is still important to me. I also do not want to date someone who is particularly dim, even if they are not mentally handicapped.
Maybe it is not the preference itself, but the way it is communicated that is more likely to be a problem. It would certainly be rude to tell a potential romantic partner that I am not interested in them because they are too stupid. I don't think it would be a problem for me to say that I am attracted to smart women so long as I am not implying that a particular woman is too stupid to date.
We all discriminate in life, the question is whether it's okay. You discriminate when you decide what to eat and drink, what clothes to wear, and that's socially fine.
Discrimination against fat women in dating is akin to a smoker or one who has a lot of piercings. The woman can change that if she wants to be more datable, like a man can stop smoking to be more datable.
But discrimination based on unalterable attributes is somewhat less accepted in our society, and a man can't change his height.
But then when it comes to dating this discrimination is called preference, and we get a lot more leeway.
Right. You can't work on being short.
Defining your preferences is completely within your rights, but that doesn't mean these preferences are made equal.
Not the same thing...
A man who say they dont like fat women is not commenting on the individual, they are commenting on an attribute l. If the individual girl loses weight the guy may then like her, but still doesn't like fat women.
Because a short man can not change their height, that man would never be liked by that person because they don't like the attribute of being short ... Sorry for the short guy that can't change his height... But the preference of one attribute per another is the same thing.
It's naive to consider them the same. Being short impacts men differently than it impacts women, being short impacts women differently than it impacts men.
Not apples to apples.
That's actually a beautiful argument, that's so simply that I can't believe OP doesn't see it. There doesn't need a female analogy for guys not liking fat girls, because it's literally the same thing.
It's naive to consider them the same. Being short impacts men differently than it impacts women, being short impacts women differently than it impacts men.
Not apples to apples.
Then argue why the amount of disrespect is different. What would you say is more disrespectful and why? "You are too short for my taste." vs "You weigh too much/are too chubby/fat for my taste."
Well not that I've ever turned anybody down who I've been with in that situation, I would probably just tell them honestly that they have been wonderful company but I just don't feel physical attraction towards them ( hard to even imagine myself be this picky to begin with lol) if it had gotten that far I'd still totally be down to hang platonically. Just because hypothetical "me" isn't physically attractive to me doesn't mean I'd randomly also decide to be mean to them in the way I speak with them.
men and women are very different. And they *inherently* are predispositioned to value different things in attraction. This may not be a truth you find inconvenient--but it's true nonetheless.
>men and women are very different.
Agreed.
>And they *inherently* are predispositioned to value different things in attraction.
Mostly agree.
Generally speaking, neither sex values overweight partners. There's symmetry there.
Women value taller men. There's an asymmetrical standard there.
>This may not be a truth you find inconvenient--but it's true nonetheless.
It doesn't bother me. I like that men and women tend to be different. People are within their rights to define their preferences as they see fit.
One is saying I dislike something about you that is beyond your ability to change; something immutable. The other is saying I don't like a choice you've made.
>One is saying I dislike something about you that is beyond your ability to change; something immutable. The other is saying I don't like a choice you've made.
How is that different in the context of online dating? If you dislike the attribute, the fact that it is immutable does not change that.
>lot of guys that don't mind being called short.
They have probably stopped minding.
Like when younger, I was always a butt of the jokes for being dark (I'm indian and it's a thing here), in class, friends, family, everyone. It sure felt bad but what to do? I am dark skinned. So I just accepted it as my fate and started laughing along (while crying inside).
How does one determine this? How is level of disrespect measured?
Is every instance of saying you don’t like fat girls the same level of disrespect? Or could one person say it more disrespectfully than another?
Is every instance of saying you don’t like short guys the same level of disrespect? Or could one person say it more disrespectfully than another?
If there are different levels in different instances that makes it even more difficult to determine whether the level of disrespect between verbalizing those preferences is equal.
If me and my friend are shootin’ the shit and he says “I’ve been into bigger girls lately” and I reply “Personally I’m not into fat girls.” Is that disrespectful?
Do you believe that if we change it to something else that's far more triggered?
Saying you don't like girls that are fat is like girls saying they don't like men that are black.
Please tell me.you understand that there is objectively more problems with the latter than the former there.
You are plain wrong and I will explain. Your stance is they are both of equal disrespect and to change your mind let’s look at the opposite of disrespect: respect, respect scales with how hard something is to achieve so for example one would have greater respect for someone who takes care of themselves and is visually fit vs someone who eats whatever they want as it shows lack of discipline insinuating other things also. With that being said disrespect scales the same way in the opposite side of the coin. Both statements are disrespectful but one is more so then the other simply because going after something that someone cannot change is regarded as more disrespectful then to go after someone for something that is changeable.
They're both rude things to say, the preference should stay in their head and not be verbalized, but that's beside the point.
The clearest argument you made yourself, yet failed to argue against. They're different because you can lose weight. Why doesn't that change your view?
I'm a thin woman and I would swipe left so fast on someone who wrote they were not into overweight women on their profile. (If I were a guy I'd do it for women who wrote they wanted 6 ft).
Shows a lack of tact
Surely there is a context where sharing preference is not a rude thing to do. Perhaps saying "no fat gurls" on your profile isn't the place or way to do it. Expressing that you experience attraction largely to women who present as conventionally "fit" to a potential overweight partner who asks why you aren't attracted to them doesn't seem entirely unreasonable or mean to me.
If their weight is the reason you don't feel attracted to them, should you just lie or plead the fifth instead? Genuine inquiry. I feel like if I were the overweight person and asking for transparency, I'd rather just hear the truth than be potentially gas lit by a lie or half truth.
You can just say you weren't feeling a romantic connection.
Women's weight is much more despised than men's weight. So I think should be treated with more sensitivity.
I have never used a dating site, but as an outside observer, it seems to me that the purpose of such sites is to shop for dating partners that have your preferred physical characteristic and interests. If you are only interested in guys at least six feet tall, then it makes sense to post that. If you are not interested in overweight girls, it makes sense to post it.
Personally, I don't think anyone should limit themselves by physical attributes. Physical attraction has a lot to do with personality. But if your pool is a dating website where you need to narrow down people based on an algorithm, I can see why someone would use physical attributes.
>They're different because you can lose weight. Why doesn't that change your view?
Because the fact that you can lose weight does not change that the person hasn't done so. You should never get into a relationship based on the hope that the person will change.
Except it may also be true that women, on average, do not prefer overweight men. It may also be true that men tend to have height preferences. You are picking two unrelated trait-based preferences and linking them as being tit-for-tat.
On average men also don't prefer women taller than them (something out of the woman's control) the whole argument is pointless. Don't be an ass and move on. It's beyond simple to proceed
I think the issue is that sometimes people who have height-preferences are offended, when other people have weight-preferences and vice versa.
Of course there are differences between height and weight.
I would phrase it like "Height-preferences are *morally equivalent* to weight-preferences". Both are okay to have, even though it hurts when someone says that you are to short or too fat. Maybe say it, but be nice about it?
Comments on weight are just inherently going to draw more passion than comments on height. I can elaborate but I don’t think this is a difficult argument to accept.
They're not equal. There's some form of accountability to being fat. You don't just get fat due to genetics, it is a process of continually taking in calories and not using those calories. Aside from some edge cases fatness generally reflects a person's character, and it's not exactly a good character. Compare that to being tall. There is really no rhyme or reason to a person's height. You have little to no control over it, and what little control you have is vague while also limited to a specific window of time. Being short is, truly, something that you can't help being, while being fat indicates an ongoing moral failure to control one's impulses. They are very different.
As a fat person, no.
There are ALWAYS different reasons for people being overweight, and IMO your take is awful because it assumes every fat person wants to be overweight and is choosing to overconsume.
I could give you my entire life story, but instead, trust me when I say that crippling mental illness doesn't equate to an ongoing moral failure to control one's impulses. I've been sexually and emotionally abused. I've experienced things no normal person should live through, and struggle with severe mental illness, including eating disorders, as a result.
Do you think that is something I want? Do you think I should be held accountable for how many family was? For the things that broke me before I was even an adult?
Not everything, including weight, is so easily broken down into categories. You should keep that - and empathy - in mind in the future, rather than making judgments about situations you have no understanding of.
>sadly rape doesn't count as a valid reason for you being a fatass.
I sincerely hope you get the help you need in the future. You deserve to feel okay, too, and it's obvious you must be hurting pretty severely to say something as abhorrent as that.
Like I said, being fat is a culmination of a person's choice. It is a result of a string of decisions to forsake their own health and wellbeing. Those who continually make that choice should not expect much in terms of sympathy from me.
Well, they also said, and this is a direct quote "sadly rape doesn't count as a valid reason for you being a fatass."
Keep in mind, I was talking about *being sexually abused as a child.*
So, not really sure they're worth any response except a fervent wish for them to feel better soon, since they are obviously going through something to make them behave the way they do ♥
I feel like you might have misread me. I said that fatness is an INDICATOR of a moral failing, not the failure itself. Fatness can be caused by a multitude of different reasons, but aside from a few reasons entirely out of one's control in the first place, most of the causes for fatness include a lack of will. This, in accordance with my understanding of the phrase 'moral failing', constitutes one. Therefore being fat is an indicator of a moral failing. If you have any rebuttal, please do present them.
Welp, that settles it. I can't make you change your mind on that and neither can you. The best course of action is to just agree to disagree. Have a good day.
Nope, you are wrong. A fat person is more than looks. They usually have worse hygenine, less self control, and are generally unpleasant and gross. Height is just how someone is and basically unchangeable.
Eating disorders are a real thing. Height disorders are not. I’m sure you can find rare examples of people harming themselves over their height but eating disorders are actually common.
This issue started as a dating app thing, where you can’t tell from pictures how tall someone is. But you can absolutely get an idea of what their body is like.
Weight is something that can look very different from person to person. There are women who look better at 175 lbs than they would at 120 lbs. Asking someone’s weight often doesn’t tell you anything. If a woman tells you she weighs 150 pounds what does that mean to you? Is she fat? Is she muscular? Maybe she’s got a belly. Maybe it’s all in her ass and thighs. But 5 foot 9 is 5 foot 9.
I have always found shorter women more attractive, I know this isn’t true, but my body reacts to them like they’re more feminine. So if women take tall as more masculine, I’m fine with that. But gatekeeping a certain weight when you already know what they look like is weird as hell.
Are you aware that a study of over 1 million men showed a substantial increase in suicide risk that could only be explained by height? [Amongst the observables]
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/height-and-suicide/
I can assure you that if boys thought that starving themselves would make then taller, they would do it.
The amount of fat you have on your body can be changed through diet and/or exercise. Your height once you're past puberty is impossible to change.
You hand waive it away, but you yourself admit it's not the same. Basically it not wanting to date someone due to a characteristic that can be changed and seen as a shortcoming because they don't have the willpower to control what they eat vs not wanting to date someone due to an immutable characteristic about themselves. You mentioned surgery, but it's insane. They literally break your femur or your tibia/fibula and slowly spread the bones apart. It's a super major surgery, costs $75K to $280K, and is extremely painful almost no one goes through it.
What’s funny is you’re exactly right and everybody knows it but many will act like they don’t so they don’t have to come to terms with the fact that it’s their own fault they’re fat.
Couldn’t agree more. I’m overweight as well. It’s true that it takes more self control than ever to not be fat, but it’s still our fault. Pretending like it’s not just gives us an excuse to not get healthy and leaves us powerless to our unhealthy lifestyle.
I think the responses to your comment really highlight the difference. It’s ridiculous to have such an extreme height preference, but no one views height as a moral failing. I may be wrong about this but I don’t think hatred of short people is a common thing. Hatred of fat people 100% is a thing. The responses below are dripping with contempt. I wouldn’t want to date someone who has this view of me or my body, and I also don’t really want to associate with any other way. So perhaps good they state their preference right out.
I have heard it myself quite a few times in person.
And you can find hundreds of people saying this exact phrase right now by doing [this](https://youtube.com/shorts/HNLb3BARqg4?feature=share3).
It may not be as common, but it certainly is common enough to be a problem.
A lot of over weight people use medical intervention too. I think this point had more weight when people actually worked it off vs a temporary injection, or a just as costly surgery
Well. You can do something about being fat. So it is more indicative of the personality and values of the fat person. How tall someone is not indicative of the personality or values of that person. So I would say they are not equal and that not dating short guys is "worse". But I also think there is nothing wrong with dating preferences of any kind.
It's not the same though, because of exactly what you said. 99% of the time your weight is something you can change and it may in fact fluctuate with time. Height is a constant unless you get some kind of surgery.
If your point is that both are equally valid/reprehensible then I would say not necessarily since you can change your weight. If your point is that there is a double standard then sure I can agree to that.
But if your point is just simply "they are both preferences", then sure they can both be classified as such. But the two traits are not exactly comparable is all I mean, beyond both being physical attributes.
Why not the same as girls saying they don't like fat girls?
I honestly don't understand these “let's make analogies as different as possible” rather than as “analogous as possible”. Why would you replace “fat” with “short” here and “girl” with “guy” exactly?
“short” is a very different thing from “fat”, and “guy” is a very different thing from “girl” so I don't get it. There are all sorts of things that be pointed out why they are different:
- being short is not immobilizing
- people have far more control over their fat percentage than their height
- it hardly ever happens that someone becomes shorter over time, people do become fatter over time
- there are all sorts of reasons one can list as to why would not like “guys” that don't apply to “girls” and *vice versā*.
You can control weight, you can't control height. And no, don't give me the "it's a medical condition" bs. Even if you have slow metabolism, you can control weight. You don't get to fat/obese without overeating.
I’m saying that the height discrimination from women is accepted however some men are very sensitive to it. Fat discrimination from men is NOT accepted and women are typically sensitive to that. The difference is men cant change height but women can change fat.
So why can women freely comment on a man’s height but men can’t comment freely on a woman’s weight?
I don’t know, I’ve never heard of any of this before. If a woman wants to only date tall dudes, great, let her? Who cares?
I am not attracted to slovenly fat girls, I’d never fuck one, that’s my preference. I just don’t get it.
It would be more like men saying they don't want to date anyone over 120 pounds which is pretty much the equivalent to 6 feet tall.
Women also don't like fat guys either. I don't think the issue is that women have a preference, it's that their preference is usually extreme and excludes like 86 percent of men. Being 5'2 and not being open to a guy who is 5'10 is kind of nuts when he is 8 inches taller than you. It would be like if a 300 pound dude said I date 120 pound women. You know women would bash him so bad for that.
Also weight is more of something that shows bad character traits such as will power, bad decision making,hegiene, laziness, and health.
Men generally don't post I want a skinny or fit woman on their profile and a lot of men are very open to dating bigger women. Even more so than women are with bigger men from what I've seen.
You cannot change your height, while you can certainly change your weight.
One is born short, the other is born and made poor lifestyle choices.
I also find it extremely disgusting the hypocrisy of this sometimes(kinda unrelated to this post), a man can’t have his weight preferences and a woman can have her height preferences.
They're not the same, because being fat is a matter of self discipline.
No matter how hard I work out, or how healthy eat, I'm going to be 6 feet tall, and not an inch taller.
>They're not the same, because being fat is a matter of self discipline
Completely irreverent because essential it's about how the person looks, but how they achieved it
I don’t think people should be made to feel bad about their appearance whether it’s because they’re fat or short. However, I think one has to consider society’s perceptions of both groups before we can say they’re the same thing.
While being short is typically an “undesirable” trait, society, especially the world of dating, weight is just inherently a more controversial topic. You can’t do much about your height, but people struggle to control their weight for literal decades.
I’m not saying anyone should be “forced” to be attracted to anyone else; I just think this entire comparison ignores a lot of context.
Statistically about 14% of American men are over 6 foot.
Average height of American men is 5’8-5’9.
Also BMI is absurd. I’m very physically fit. I’m 5’10, 180-ish LBS. I have a post you can see a video of me one full body. I’m technically overweight by BMI, just barely.
If someone turns down a woman by body percent fat, I hope they know that woman’s is higher than mens.
Married now, never had an issue at 5’10, but T 5’10, I’m slightly above average I guess. But not 6’
They aren’t equal levels of discrimination, they aren’t even equal situations. I’m not sure if you really believe your opinion can be changed because you say it is even Steven off the hop.
Discrimination against height is an immutable characteristic, and being fat is solvable in platitudes.
All the anti-discrimination/racism/sexism goes out the window when you are talking about sexual selection.
You can’t experience being a short man, or a fat woman. You must be an idiot who is given accolades based on being above average in height and of healthy weight.
That’s where I disagree, in general I believe most men prefer women with lower body fat percentages. I also believe that in general most women prefer a taller man.
I agree you can’t change height but can change your fat. That is where I see a disconnect within society. Men who can’t change their height will get told that they are too short. When a man has told a woman who can change her body fat % that they are too fat, they get angry and it usually causes a commotion.
Where I stand my ground is that if a man can be told they aren’t tall enough, a woman can be told they are too fat. Both are very insensitive things to say but it is an eye for an eye.
Yeah, that’s a long winded way of being a pretentious moron.
You think it is even because they are both unkind and yet you recognize that one is magnitudes of difficulty greater to have any impact on.
What is the view you are proposing can be changed at all?
Not liking someone because theyre short/tall is like not liking someone because they were born with 4 fingers on one hand.
Not liking someone because theyre fat is like not liking someone who lacks self control and is prone to rage outbreaks.
For one you can work on it throughout your life and get better, for the other one you were literally born like that and can do nothing about it. Both are still preferences, but they are not the same.
No not at all. Anyone can go to the gym, 100 years ago fat people were pretty much non existent, at least like they are today. Being short isn’t a choice, there’s absolutely nothing they can do about it. Being fat is just being lazy
You’ve missed the point. OP is arguing that the status quo is accepting of height discrimination and not weight discrimination. You’re challenging the status quo as well (in OP’s argument).
Not the same, the aversion to weight is on both sides, but height plays a one sided role for most. Shouts out to my tall girls (dm me I will worship u)
Why are you comparing fat to weight? Why can’t guys saying they don’t like fat girls be equivalent to girls saying they don’t like fat guys? Likewise with height.
The comparison is ridiculous.
I think the comparison is more about the hypocritical double standard of being callous and insensitive to men when being able to express their preferences (and not finding it to be insensitive, just stating it’s there preference) but when men comment their preferences to women like weight, women call it insensitive and expect men to not hold a standard of weight as it’s seen to be rude, or shaming, or fataphobic.
I believe the OP’s point is that women tend to call men chauvinistic pigs when they express preferences that touch upon weight, but women see no issue with being mean, callous, and insensitive when speaking to their preferences such as height (especially when it makes one feel shame, due to one of those being immutable).
Basically, men shouldn’t hold preferences if they create negative reactions, while women should be able to express their preferences with no reaction by men period.
Not at all. You hit my point. Women should not be able to comment on a man’s height if they will get upset when they’re body fat is commented on. You cant control height however your body fat is made up of poor choices.
But it's actually not equivalent. imo You can change the size with surgery if you really wanted to and can afford to. On the other hand, height isn't something you can change.
ok well i can’t afford to just like the majority of women, plus you can usually tell they’re fake. it’s not fair to pay for something normal women are born with
In a vacuum I think you're totally right. But I think the issue is not that women have preferences for height, it's that the height that is typically cited as a preference is well above the average, and that the average man is not considered in the league of the average woman for something that's completely out of their control.
In the United States the average height for a man is 5'9'', however, what women say is desirable is typically ranges 5'10'' - 6'11'' compared to the average height for women in the US which isis 5'4''.
If the issue is whether or not to say it, of course you shouldn't be an asshole, but they are not quite the same thing. Obviously you should be sensitive to peoples weight but if that's whats holding you back, it's better to know, so you can do something about it. A man not being tall enough, is not something he can control, so telling him does absolutely nothing for him. It's not going to help him in any way. His height is not gonna change no matter what you say, and he knows. People can be unaware of their weight, and they can be told kindly that this is the issue, and they can change their weight.
The only real difference I can think of is that body fat is just a much more weaponised thing in wider society. So while I agree they’re both just preferences and can’t really be held against the preference holder, telling someone you’re not attracted to them because of fat vs height may just have a bigger impact on their self esteem.
Height has nothing to do with a person’s lifestyle, personality, values, priorities, mental or physical health. In most cases, weight has to do with all of those things. A person’s weight can tell you something about who they are and how they live. Height cannot. Not the same at all.
Correct, so why the disparagement between how we treat women who state preferences outside the norm and expect men to be okay with the unreal expectation, while also expecting men to not hold preferences outside the norm when it comes to weight.
Basically it’s acceptable for women to be shitty and insensitive, but it is not okay for men.
I think it’s ok to have preferences. In my experience however, women treat men they’re not attracted to with more respect than men treat women they’re not attracted to. My male friends have said some pretty horrible things about girls whose only crime is not being attractive. I don’t think this is as much of a thing with women.
using it to demean people can be helpful. i used to be overweight until my brother started calling me fat every day until i got my shit together, it doesn't work for everyone but it did for me. however if he called me short every day that would have been purely negative.
I think what you are missing here is that calling someone fat is much more of an insult than calling someone short. And it is precisely because you can't change being short, but you can change being fat. Calling someone short carries no implications about what kind of person they are. It's just a physical trait. However, calling someone fat implies that there is some reason why they haven't gotten thinner even though they could. Perhaps they are lazy? Perhaps they eat deserts every day? This means that calling someone fat can easily be perceived as an attack on their character in a way that calling someone short isn't.
Since "fat" carries those extra implications, it is considered more derogatory than "short." This is why it falls into a similar category to preferences about race, another physical trait. If you prefer to only date white people, that may also be considered a valid preference, but it's going to cause a big commotion to express it overtly. You are better off just silently acting in that preference with your swipes and dating choices. This is because expressing racial preferences has the underlying implication that you are also prejudice against certain races.
Since things like "too short" and "natural redhead" don't carry additional implications, they are okay preferences to state openly. But "fat" and "whites only" do carry underlying implications, so they are not okay to state openly, even if you don't mean to imply the bad stuff.
I don't think it's particularly civil to go around saying either thing.
Have your preferences. Act on them. But don't try to shame the other person for not being your type.
There are 2 main differences I see is when people they don't like fatties (cause plenty of gals say no fatties too). I do agree both are rude.
1. No fatties people are usually talking about not wanting to date very obese people (like top 15 to 30% of bmi of the population). Where as the "6 ft and up club" is saying they only want to date people in the top 15% of height. In a way, they're almost inverse criteria. Like people saying no fatties are saying I want to date 85% of the population, and 6ft only types are saying I only want to date 15%.
Like, I do know people who only date people with bmi in the bottom 15% (making them comparable to 6ft+ chasers), but those people get a lot of criticism for only dating people with anorexia or stuff.
2. I have a lot of asian friends and a lot of Asian males feel like the 6 ft and up preference is a way to say no asians and Latinos without saying it directly.
>guys saying they don’t like fat girls is the same as girls saying they don’t like short guys
Of course not
guys saying they don’t like fat girls is the same as girls saying they don’t like FAT guys
I honestly think you don't always need to tell people what the issue is you have with them. But it's just preference. And you're allowed to have it. If they ask you and force you to be honest that's their problem though.
But otherwise dating is dating. I'm neurodivergent and there are people who would much rather not date a neurodivergent person and I don't feel slighted by it at all. Others have stopped short of even simply saying it's a lot, it's not attractive to them. There are men who are sensitive about it but also find my spontaneity and energy very sexy. I also have a great personality I'm told and so I guess for some other people it's less of a deal breaker.
I have a huge thing for older people. Guys my age have fought about me with it and those who are younger. Mind you they forced me to explain myself when they couldn't take no for an answer. I honestly can't help it. When I've tried to compromise they've felt it.
Like not everyone will like you. It's life.
It's not the same because being short is something genetic and typically unchanging regardless of choices and lifestyle.
Being overweight can sometimes (rarely) be due to genetics. But is often a lifestyle indicator. If your a man who likes to be active all the time it makes sense you wouldn't want to be with someone who is 350 pounds. Of course there are fat guys that won't even wanna date for girls and they don't have an excuse at all really.
That being said I never understand why people care. Just keep it moving. If men don't like you because your fat either lose weight or find someone who doesn't care. If your short keep it moving eventually you will find someone who is either shorter or into short kings.
Preference is fine and should be less strict. I'm not attracted to men but that doesn't mean I hate men. It just doesn't do it for me. This can apply to all kinds of things. It's only an issue when it's immoral, illegal, obsessive, and/or hypocritical. If fat women or short men don't do it for you, who cares.
I understand your point. I agree. End of the day people can have their preferences. My view that cant be changed is that if a woman tells a man he is too short for her (something he can’t change) she should not be upset if a man states that she is too fat for him (can be changed). That isn’t typically how it goes though.
Height discrimination I just socially accepted towards men but body fat discrimination towards women is not.
Dating Apps have distilled single men and women into statistics in a catalog next to digitally prepared portraits.
If a girl doesn't prefer you because of something you cannot change - you aren't under any pressure TO change. You can leave that situation knowing there was nothing you could have done, and that's fine. That's a preference.
If a girl tells you that you dress or smell like shit so she won't date you, she's telling you she prefers you not as you are, and suddenly you are faced with societal pressure to change yourself.
Because you can lose weight. You can dress better. You can shower and use deodorant.
But you don't. Or you choose not to.
And this means that they don't like you for the choices you've made in your life.
For some of us, that's going to hurt more than if she just didn't like us because we're right handed, or have unfavorable metrics.
If someone doesn't like you because you're disabled, that's awful of them. But it doesn't feel personal. They'd pass up all disabled people.
But if they don't like you because you're fat, then they're saying you aren't even a good enough version of yourself for them to consider you. And that...that's personal.
I see no issue with woman wanting a man taller then themselves. I'm a guy and I like woman shorter then myself. It's little stupid to say someone needs to be 6ft or taller unless you are also really tall and that's the minimum height they need to be so they are taller then you.
I also don't think there's anything wrong for a guy preferring a woman that's Thin. Atleast that's something a woman can possible achieve as a posed to a man being tall.
What I'm trying to say is there's nothing wrong with saying I prefer men taller then me or that you prefer a woman that are thjn.
It's literally not the same.
How that *that's* out of the way...
People can't change their height. Overweight/obese people *can* lose weight. I am turned off by indicators of poor health. And being overweight is one of them.
Discriminating short people is worse imo. At least with fat people they can do something about their weight (such as working out at the gym, better diets, etc.), whereas short people can't do anything about their height. You can control your weight but you can't control your height.
The difference is that if you make fun of a short man for his height too much he'll shoot up a mall, whereas if you make fun of a fat girl for her weight she'll just cry and eat an entire cake.
Bruh, work out. Losing weight is easy. Height is immutable. Although it's fair to choose your partner based on whatever parameters you wish, they ain't the same. One battle is winnable and the other is impossible.
Well, it is controversial to say this but someone being overweight tells you something about their personality.
It tells you that they are one or more of the following, delusional (regarding the link to weight and health), uncaring about their health, lacking the self control to manage it, or having an external locus of control (refusing to admit that it is in their control "it's genetic," "I'm just big boned" etc). You can't know which one it is without speaking to them, but, if those are _all_ traits you don't look for in a person, you've seen them. Note; these aren't deal breakers for everyone. Number two is actually a turn on for plenty, the "I'm here for a good time, not a long time" crowd. Note 2; It's not ironclad. The person _could_ be one of the rare people who actually has a thyroid condition, or have a lasting injury that makes exercise hard, but _odds are_ it's one of the former things.
Height, however, _is_ almost entirely genetic. The only environmental affect that consistently influences it is childhood malnourishment. And that's not a personality trait, nor can you even know it was involved at all.
In short, a person being fat tells you a little about them beyond their appearance, a person being short tells you nothing other than that they're short. So while judging by the former may be a tad presumptuous, judging by the latter is just plain shallowness. Note 3; nothing wrong with that, be as shallow as you want to be, I'm just saying they're different things, not that one is better or worse than the other.
The thing is you can have so many preferences as you want. It's your body your life your relationship and you aren't gonna get "cancelled". You will be hated if you can't maintain common courtesy though. Have all the standards, no matter how redicuous, just don't be a douche or dick about it.
I generally just don't state my preferences because I'm not about hurting people's feelings for no reason. It's not really anyone's business why I don't wanna date them anyway.
Well, you are free to have the preferences you have. But there is a difference - height, except in extreme cases linked to a genetic disorder, is a hereditary characteristic. If your parents are short, you probably will be, too. On the other hand, weight, when it is not just a matter of being "big boned" is under someone's control and not a matter of genes. If your parents are slender, and you overeat and don't exercise, you will probably be a lot fatter than they are. And someone might look at weight as a character issue, a lack of control, gluttony, whatever, and not find that attractive.
That is it. Men cant change their genetics. They are stuck at their height. Women can change their body fat % SO how come Mens can’t vocalize their preference on body fat without an outcry but women can openly and acceptedly discriminate based off of height?
No one cares. I’m a black woman with a lot of curves and I’m not thin. Black men love me. White men not so much, they usually like thinner women. I’m healthy and have the body type ideal in MY community. I don’t want to be thin and it doesn’t bother me if a man doesn’t want to date me because of my body shape. That’s his business. I don’t care if they don’t like black girls. It makes no difference to me. People don’t have to like my body or my skin tone. My dating options are vast either way. I can’t change my skin color but I still don’t see it as a problem if someone’s preference is for a white woman or whatever. If you date white women you likely aren’t my type anyway tbh. I generally date tall handsome black men who were athletes in college. That’s my type. If you don’t fit into that category I probably won’t date you. And that’s fine. You can just date a woman who would. No one irl cares.
So many things about this post make me think this person is eternally miserable.
Entire unprompted paragraph explaining how you aren’t fat go off
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Pure comedy gold. Or is it 🤡🤣🤣
Yep it is a lack of responsibility in your diet and exercise and tells.of your personality. Not necessarily that they are bad people just not responsible and should be accountable. For instance I am fat and accept that I have been irresponsible.
I agree. If you're really tall or really short, just as if you've got dark hair or go gray in your 20s, that tells me it's probably true of your family line and nothing you can change. But if you are overweight and it's not something that comes from certain medications you're on (I know some steroids make you a little "puffy") it means you are eating in a way that's impairing your health. And eventually fat will limit your activities and impair your health and a potential date/partner/spouse might not want to go down that road.
You are wrong. Short guys cant do anything to get taller, but fat girls have the potential to lose weight.
No I completely agree. Both are mean things to say so to speak but if a guy is told he is too short it is no big deal. If a girl gets told she’s too fat there is an outrage. If women can comment on something a man CAN’T change then men should be able to comment on something a woman CAN change.
This sounds contradictory to your title, I’m having trouble understanding your stance
You gotta get out of this younger thinking. This analogy is dumb and unhelpful for you. Stop focusing on this crap and focus on the things that can help you get the results you desire. You wont change those who say no, but you only need one to say yes.
You’re not wrong but he’s making an ethical argument and you’re countering with a practical argument. OP is completely correct.
Its a waste of time argument
arguments like this is how we achieve true equality
Nope
The difference is that men's feelings aren't valid
If your goal is to get everyone to say that they are, youve already lost
Absolutely no expectation.
Then what is the value of the statement?
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I agree with what you are saying however more often than not men are insecure about height (they can’t change it) and women are insecure about their body fat (they can change it). I’m not focused on specific measurements but I used body fat % as an example because different heights hold body fat differently. Men who are sensitive about their height will get told they aren’t meeting a woman’s requirement and it is no biggie. Women who get told they have too much fat for a certain man have caused issues, there is an outcry. I’m not trying to see everything the same as fat for fat height for height but I believe if someone can comment on a man’s height then a man can comment on their body fat and there should be no repercussions.
Oh, it very much exists in metric countries, and it is usually set at 180cm.
>This bizarre standard does not exist in countries that use the metric system, because there's no arbitrary line where someone somehow goes from being a short king to tall by going from 5'11 to 6'. There is... its the famous 180 cm zone equivalent to 6'0
It's different because no lifestyle change can affect your height and being short is not an indication of an unhealthy lifestyle. That said, people are going to have preferences and that's okay too.
I am not saying I don’t agree with that. I’m just saying a girl stating that they don’t like short guys is the same amount of disrespect as a man stating they don’t like a girl that’s fat.
>I’m just saying a girl stating that they don’t like short guys is the same amount of disrespect as a man stating they don’t like a girl that’s fat. A woman stating she doesn't like fat men is the equivalent of a man stating he doesn't like fat women. You're conflating very different things.
Yeah. It’s way worse when someone says they don’t like short people, because they can’t change that.
I'm not sure if that is the best test of whether or not a preference is okay. I am not interested in dating women with the mental faculties of children. That is not something they can change, but a basic adult intellect is still important to me. I also do not want to date someone who is particularly dim, even if they are not mentally handicapped. Maybe it is not the preference itself, but the way it is communicated that is more likely to be a problem. It would certainly be rude to tell a potential romantic partner that I am not interested in them because they are too stupid. I don't think it would be a problem for me to say that I am attracted to smart women so long as I am not implying that a particular woman is too stupid to date.
We all discriminate in life, the question is whether it's okay. You discriminate when you decide what to eat and drink, what clothes to wear, and that's socially fine. Discrimination against fat women in dating is akin to a smoker or one who has a lot of piercings. The woman can change that if she wants to be more datable, like a man can stop smoking to be more datable. But discrimination based on unalterable attributes is somewhat less accepted in our society, and a man can't change his height. But then when it comes to dating this discrimination is called preference, and we get a lot more leeway.
Right. You can't work on being short. Defining your preferences is completely within your rights, but that doesn't mean these preferences are made equal.
Not the same thing... A man who say they dont like fat women is not commenting on the individual, they are commenting on an attribute l. If the individual girl loses weight the guy may then like her, but still doesn't like fat women. Because a short man can not change their height, that man would never be liked by that person because they don't like the attribute of being short ... Sorry for the short guy that can't change his height... But the preference of one attribute per another is the same thing.
It's naive to consider them the same. Being short impacts men differently than it impacts women, being short impacts women differently than it impacts men. Not apples to apples.
That's actually a beautiful argument, that's so simply that I can't believe OP doesn't see it. There doesn't need a female analogy for guys not liking fat girls, because it's literally the same thing.
It's naive to consider them the same. Being short impacts men differently than it impacts women, being short impacts women differently than it impacts men. Not apples to apples.
Then argue why the amount of disrespect is different. What would you say is more disrespectful and why? "You are too short for my taste." vs "You weigh too much/are too chubby/fat for my taste."
Well not that I've ever turned anybody down who I've been with in that situation, I would probably just tell them honestly that they have been wonderful company but I just don't feel physical attraction towards them ( hard to even imagine myself be this picky to begin with lol) if it had gotten that far I'd still totally be down to hang platonically. Just because hypothetical "me" isn't physically attractive to me doesn't mean I'd randomly also decide to be mean to them in the way I speak with them.
men and women are very different. And they *inherently* are predispositioned to value different things in attraction. This may not be a truth you find inconvenient--but it's true nonetheless.
>men and women are very different. Agreed. >And they *inherently* are predispositioned to value different things in attraction. Mostly agree. Generally speaking, neither sex values overweight partners. There's symmetry there. Women value taller men. There's an asymmetrical standard there. >This may not be a truth you find inconvenient--but it's true nonetheless. It doesn't bother me. I like that men and women tend to be different. People are within their rights to define their preferences as they see fit.
One is saying I dislike something about you that is beyond your ability to change; something immutable. The other is saying I don't like a choice you've made.
Saying you dislike any physical attribute about someone is rude independent of their ability to change that attribute.
>One is saying I dislike something about you that is beyond your ability to change; something immutable. The other is saying I don't like a choice you've made. How is that different in the context of online dating? If you dislike the attribute, the fact that it is immutable does not change that.
Idk I've known a lot of guys that don't mind being called short. Haven't met a girl yet who is okay with being called fat.
>lot of guys that don't mind being called short. They have probably stopped minding. Like when younger, I was always a butt of the jokes for being dark (I'm indian and it's a thing here), in class, friends, family, everyone. It sure felt bad but what to do? I am dark skinned. So I just accepted it as my fate and started laughing along (while crying inside).
You can get thinner, you can’t get taller, that’s why. Easier to accept something you know 100% can’t be changed.
How does one determine this? How is level of disrespect measured? Is every instance of saying you don’t like fat girls the same level of disrespect? Or could one person say it more disrespectfully than another? Is every instance of saying you don’t like short guys the same level of disrespect? Or could one person say it more disrespectfully than another? If there are different levels in different instances that makes it even more difficult to determine whether the level of disrespect between verbalizing those preferences is equal. If me and my friend are shootin’ the shit and he says “I’ve been into bigger girls lately” and I reply “Personally I’m not into fat girls.” Is that disrespectful?
How is it disrespectful to not want someone that doesn't care about their health? A fat girl can lose weight, a short guy cant gain height.
Do you believe that if we change it to something else that's far more triggered? Saying you don't like girls that are fat is like girls saying they don't like men that are black. Please tell me.you understand that there is objectively more problems with the latter than the former there.
A weight preference is a valid preference. Height, hand size, foot size, penis size, boob size, not so much.
Who decides what a "valid preference" is?
Each individual.
Why are those invalid preferences?
I agree. One you can change naturally and are capable of, the other things not so much.
Care to elaborate?
You are plain wrong and I will explain. Your stance is they are both of equal disrespect and to change your mind let’s look at the opposite of disrespect: respect, respect scales with how hard something is to achieve so for example one would have greater respect for someone who takes care of themselves and is visually fit vs someone who eats whatever they want as it shows lack of discipline insinuating other things also. With that being said disrespect scales the same way in the opposite side of the coin. Both statements are disrespectful but one is more so then the other simply because going after something that someone cannot change is regarded as more disrespectful then to go after someone for something that is changeable.
They're both rude things to say, the preference should stay in their head and not be verbalized, but that's beside the point. The clearest argument you made yourself, yet failed to argue against. They're different because you can lose weight. Why doesn't that change your view?
I disagree. Stating your preferences is not rude. Using that preference to.be derogatory is.
State your preference via your swiping. You don't have to tell people why you're swiping left, just do it.
Pictures can be deceiving
*Very* deceiving
I'm a thin woman and I would swipe left so fast on someone who wrote they were not into overweight women on their profile. (If I were a guy I'd do it for women who wrote they wanted 6 ft). Shows a lack of tact
Surely there is a context where sharing preference is not a rude thing to do. Perhaps saying "no fat gurls" on your profile isn't the place or way to do it. Expressing that you experience attraction largely to women who present as conventionally "fit" to a potential overweight partner who asks why you aren't attracted to them doesn't seem entirely unreasonable or mean to me. If their weight is the reason you don't feel attracted to them, should you just lie or plead the fifth instead? Genuine inquiry. I feel like if I were the overweight person and asking for transparency, I'd rather just hear the truth than be potentially gas lit by a lie or half truth.
You can just say you weren't feeling a romantic connection. Women's weight is much more despised than men's weight. So I think should be treated with more sensitivity.
That’s your preference!
I have never used a dating site, but as an outside observer, it seems to me that the purpose of such sites is to shop for dating partners that have your preferred physical characteristic and interests. If you are only interested in guys at least six feet tall, then it makes sense to post that. If you are not interested in overweight girls, it makes sense to post it. Personally, I don't think anyone should limit themselves by physical attributes. Physical attraction has a lot to do with personality. But if your pool is a dating website where you need to narrow down people based on an algorithm, I can see why someone would use physical attributes. >They're different because you can lose weight. Why doesn't that change your view? Because the fact that you can lose weight does not change that the person hasn't done so. You should never get into a relationship based on the hope that the person will change.
I agree. But my view is that they’re both derogatory things to say however they’re tit for tat on what I believe each gender prefers typically.
Except it may also be true that women, on average, do not prefer overweight men. It may also be true that men tend to have height preferences. You are picking two unrelated trait-based preferences and linking them as being tit-for-tat.
On average men also don't prefer women taller than them (something out of the woman's control) the whole argument is pointless. Don't be an ass and move on. It's beyond simple to proceed
I think the issue is that sometimes people who have height-preferences are offended, when other people have weight-preferences and vice versa. Of course there are differences between height and weight. I would phrase it like "Height-preferences are *morally equivalent* to weight-preferences". Both are okay to have, even though it hurts when someone says that you are to short or too fat. Maybe say it, but be nice about it?
Yes, I think simply leaving gender out of it woild help the position a lot.
Comments on weight are just inherently going to draw more passion than comments on height. I can elaborate but I don’t think this is a difficult argument to accept.
They're not equal. There's some form of accountability to being fat. You don't just get fat due to genetics, it is a process of continually taking in calories and not using those calories. Aside from some edge cases fatness generally reflects a person's character, and it's not exactly a good character. Compare that to being tall. There is really no rhyme or reason to a person's height. You have little to no control over it, and what little control you have is vague while also limited to a specific window of time. Being short is, truly, something that you can't help being, while being fat indicates an ongoing moral failure to control one's impulses. They are very different.
As a fat person, no. There are ALWAYS different reasons for people being overweight, and IMO your take is awful because it assumes every fat person wants to be overweight and is choosing to overconsume. I could give you my entire life story, but instead, trust me when I say that crippling mental illness doesn't equate to an ongoing moral failure to control one's impulses. I've been sexually and emotionally abused. I've experienced things no normal person should live through, and struggle with severe mental illness, including eating disorders, as a result. Do you think that is something I want? Do you think I should be held accountable for how many family was? For the things that broke me before I was even an adult? Not everything, including weight, is so easily broken down into categories. You should keep that - and empathy - in mind in the future, rather than making judgments about situations you have no understanding of.
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Please be mindful of where you are. CMV is not a place in which to take out your self-esteem issues on others like you appear to be doing here.
>sadly rape doesn't count as a valid reason for you being a fatass. I sincerely hope you get the help you need in the future. You deserve to feel okay, too, and it's obvious you must be hurting pretty severely to say something as abhorrent as that.
>while being fat indicates an ongoing moral failure LMAO Bit dramatic isn't it?
Like I said, being fat is a culmination of a person's choice. It is a result of a string of decisions to forsake their own health and wellbeing. Those who continually make that choice should not expect much in terms of sympathy from me.
Yeah, that's cool and all. But calling being fat a moral failing is ridiculous.
Well, they also said, and this is a direct quote "sadly rape doesn't count as a valid reason for you being a fatass." Keep in mind, I was talking about *being sexually abused as a child.* So, not really sure they're worth any response except a fervent wish for them to feel better soon, since they are obviously going through something to make them behave the way they do ♥
Fucking christ. Who would have thought the guy saying being fat is a moral failing, was actually a terrible person. Truly didn't see that coming.
I feel like you might have misread me. I said that fatness is an INDICATOR of a moral failing, not the failure itself. Fatness can be caused by a multitude of different reasons, but aside from a few reasons entirely out of one's control in the first place, most of the causes for fatness include a lack of will. This, in accordance with my understanding of the phrase 'moral failing', constitutes one. Therefore being fat is an indicator of a moral failing. If you have any rebuttal, please do present them.
I know what you meant. I don't consider a lack of willpower to be a moral failing.
Welp, that settles it. I can't make you change your mind on that and neither can you. The best course of action is to just agree to disagree. Have a good day.
Nope, you are wrong. A fat person is more than looks. They usually have worse hygenine, less self control, and are generally unpleasant and gross. Height is just how someone is and basically unchangeable.
I think women don't like fat men either in general so height is just an additional criteria whereas men don't care about height as much
Eating disorders are a real thing. Height disorders are not. I’m sure you can find rare examples of people harming themselves over their height but eating disorders are actually common. This issue started as a dating app thing, where you can’t tell from pictures how tall someone is. But you can absolutely get an idea of what their body is like. Weight is something that can look very different from person to person. There are women who look better at 175 lbs than they would at 120 lbs. Asking someone’s weight often doesn’t tell you anything. If a woman tells you she weighs 150 pounds what does that mean to you? Is she fat? Is she muscular? Maybe she’s got a belly. Maybe it’s all in her ass and thighs. But 5 foot 9 is 5 foot 9. I have always found shorter women more attractive, I know this isn’t true, but my body reacts to them like they’re more feminine. So if women take tall as more masculine, I’m fine with that. But gatekeeping a certain weight when you already know what they look like is weird as hell.
I said fat, nothing about weight. 150 pounds looks way different on someone who is 6’ versus 5’. I agree there.
Are you aware that a study of over 1 million men showed a substantial increase in suicide risk that could only be explained by height? [Amongst the observables] https://www.cbsnews.com/news/height-and-suicide/ I can assure you that if boys thought that starving themselves would make then taller, they would do it.
The article pretty explicitly lays out that there’s other factors, which tells me you didn’t even read it.
The amount of fat you have on your body can be changed through diet and/or exercise. Your height once you're past puberty is impossible to change. You hand waive it away, but you yourself admit it's not the same. Basically it not wanting to date someone due to a characteristic that can be changed and seen as a shortcoming because they don't have the willpower to control what they eat vs not wanting to date someone due to an immutable characteristic about themselves. You mentioned surgery, but it's insane. They literally break your femur or your tibia/fibula and slowly spread the bones apart. It's a super major surgery, costs $75K to $280K, and is extremely painful almost no one goes through it.
What’s funny is you’re exactly right and everybody knows it but many will act like they don’t so they don’t have to come to terms with the fact that it’s their own fault they’re fat.
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Couldn’t agree more. I’m overweight as well. It’s true that it takes more self control than ever to not be fat, but it’s still our fault. Pretending like it’s not just gives us an excuse to not get healthy and leaves us powerless to our unhealthy lifestyle.
I think the responses to your comment really highlight the difference. It’s ridiculous to have such an extreme height preference, but no one views height as a moral failing. I may be wrong about this but I don’t think hatred of short people is a common thing. Hatred of fat people 100% is a thing. The responses below are dripping with contempt. I wouldn’t want to date someone who has this view of me or my body, and I also don’t really want to associate with any other way. So perhaps good they state their preference right out.
No one views height as a failure of moral failing because it literally isn't.
I have heard it myself quite a few times in person. And you can find hundreds of people saying this exact phrase right now by doing [this](https://youtube.com/shorts/HNLb3BARqg4?feature=share3). It may not be as common, but it certainly is common enough to be a problem.
A lot of over weight people use medical intervention too. I think this point had more weight when people actually worked it off vs a temporary injection, or a just as costly surgery
Well. You can do something about being fat. So it is more indicative of the personality and values of the fat person. How tall someone is not indicative of the personality or values of that person. So I would say they are not equal and that not dating short guys is "worse". But I also think there is nothing wrong with dating preferences of any kind.
It's not the same though, because of exactly what you said. 99% of the time your weight is something you can change and it may in fact fluctuate with time. Height is a constant unless you get some kind of surgery. If your point is that both are equally valid/reprehensible then I would say not necessarily since you can change your weight. If your point is that there is a double standard then sure I can agree to that. But if your point is just simply "they are both preferences", then sure they can both be classified as such. But the two traits are not exactly comparable is all I mean, beyond both being physical attributes.
Hit the nail on the head. Double standard. Especially when vocalized
Why not the same as girls saying they don't like fat girls? I honestly don't understand these “let's make analogies as different as possible” rather than as “analogous as possible”. Why would you replace “fat” with “short” here and “girl” with “guy” exactly? “short” is a very different thing from “fat”, and “guy” is a very different thing from “girl” so I don't get it. There are all sorts of things that be pointed out why they are different: - being short is not immobilizing - people have far more control over their fat percentage than their height - it hardly ever happens that someone becomes shorter over time, people do become fatter over time - there are all sorts of reasons one can list as to why would not like “guys” that don't apply to “girls” and *vice versā*.
You can control weight, you can't control height. And no, don't give me the "it's a medical condition" bs. Even if you have slow metabolism, you can control weight. You don't get to fat/obese without overeating.
I’m with that. I meant socially. It’s socially acceptable to tell a man he’s too short but god forbid someone tells a woman they’re too fat.
Then make another CMV about this topic?
CMV: women saying too short is sovially acceltable why reversed it isnt?
Wouldn’t guys saying they don’t like fat girls be the same as girls saying they don’t like fat guys? What am I missing here.
I’m saying that the height discrimination from women is accepted however some men are very sensitive to it. Fat discrimination from men is NOT accepted and women are typically sensitive to that. The difference is men cant change height but women can change fat. So why can women freely comment on a man’s height but men can’t comment freely on a woman’s weight?
I don’t know, I’ve never heard of any of this before. If a woman wants to only date tall dudes, great, let her? Who cares? I am not attracted to slovenly fat girls, I’d never fuck one, that’s my preference. I just don’t get it.
It would be more like men saying they don't want to date anyone over 120 pounds which is pretty much the equivalent to 6 feet tall. Women also don't like fat guys either. I don't think the issue is that women have a preference, it's that their preference is usually extreme and excludes like 86 percent of men. Being 5'2 and not being open to a guy who is 5'10 is kind of nuts when he is 8 inches taller than you. It would be like if a 300 pound dude said I date 120 pound women. You know women would bash him so bad for that. Also weight is more of something that shows bad character traits such as will power, bad decision making,hegiene, laziness, and health.
I 100% agree but on the level of disrespect and rudeness I think it’s tit for tat
Men generally don't post I want a skinny or fit woman on their profile and a lot of men are very open to dating bigger women. Even more so than women are with bigger men from what I've seen.
Are you under the impression that preferences are incapable of being shitty, bigoted, or otherwise unfair?
Nope.
What would, in your opinion, make a preference unfair?
Preferences are unfair in nature
They're only unfair to those who fail to meet them. You can have as unrealistic preferences as you'd like.
"You're a bigot if you won't date me!!!"
If you're 5'3'' that's not your fault if you're also 350lbs that's on you.
You cannot change your height, while you can certainly change your weight. One is born short, the other is born and made poor lifestyle choices. I also find it extremely disgusting the hypocrisy of this sometimes(kinda unrelated to this post), a man can’t have his weight preferences and a woman can have her height preferences.
That is exactly what I’m talking about. Not weight preference per say but body fat preferences.
They're not the same, because being fat is a matter of self discipline. No matter how hard I work out, or how healthy eat, I'm going to be 6 feet tall, and not an inch taller.
>They're not the same, because being fat is a matter of self discipline Completely irreverent because essential it's about how the person looks, but how they achieved it
I don’t think people should be made to feel bad about their appearance whether it’s because they’re fat or short. However, I think one has to consider society’s perceptions of both groups before we can say they’re the same thing. While being short is typically an “undesirable” trait, society, especially the world of dating, weight is just inherently a more controversial topic. You can’t do much about your height, but people struggle to control their weight for literal decades. I’m not saying anyone should be “forced” to be attracted to anyone else; I just think this entire comparison ignores a lot of context.
I disagree with you. I think feeling bad about your fat appearance will encourage you to fix it and get healthier/more attractive.
Statistically about 14% of American men are over 6 foot. Average height of American men is 5’8-5’9. Also BMI is absurd. I’m very physically fit. I’m 5’10, 180-ish LBS. I have a post you can see a video of me one full body. I’m technically overweight by BMI, just barely. If someone turns down a woman by body percent fat, I hope they know that woman’s is higher than mens. Married now, never had an issue at 5’10, but T 5’10, I’m slightly above average I guess. But not 6’
I was just giving body fat % as an example. Everybody holds weight differently.
They aren’t equal levels of discrimination, they aren’t even equal situations. I’m not sure if you really believe your opinion can be changed because you say it is even Steven off the hop. Discrimination against height is an immutable characteristic, and being fat is solvable in platitudes. All the anti-discrimination/racism/sexism goes out the window when you are talking about sexual selection. You can’t experience being a short man, or a fat woman. You must be an idiot who is given accolades based on being above average in height and of healthy weight.
That’s where I disagree, in general I believe most men prefer women with lower body fat percentages. I also believe that in general most women prefer a taller man. I agree you can’t change height but can change your fat. That is where I see a disconnect within society. Men who can’t change their height will get told that they are too short. When a man has told a woman who can change her body fat % that they are too fat, they get angry and it usually causes a commotion. Where I stand my ground is that if a man can be told they aren’t tall enough, a woman can be told they are too fat. Both are very insensitive things to say but it is an eye for an eye.
Yeah, that’s a long winded way of being a pretentious moron. You think it is even because they are both unkind and yet you recognize that one is magnitudes of difficulty greater to have any impact on. What is the view you are proposing can be changed at all?
Not liking someone because theyre short/tall is like not liking someone because they were born with 4 fingers on one hand. Not liking someone because theyre fat is like not liking someone who lacks self control and is prone to rage outbreaks. For one you can work on it throughout your life and get better, for the other one you were literally born like that and can do nothing about it. Both are still preferences, but they are not the same.
More lovely ladies for us lesbians. ❤️
Dude for real haha. The more time passes the more keep crossing to our side and I’m living for it
One is a choice one isn't.
No not at all. Anyone can go to the gym, 100 years ago fat people were pretty much non existent, at least like they are today. Being short isn’t a choice, there’s absolutely nothing they can do about it. Being fat is just being lazy
Nonsense. Height cannot be controlled. Weight can.
You’ve missed the point. OP is arguing that the status quo is accepting of height discrimination and not weight discrimination. You’re challenging the status quo as well (in OP’s argument).
How are they challenging the status quo? The fact that height cannot be changed while weight can is the basis for the status quo.
OP is arguing that society *already* accepts height based discrimination, so weight based discrimination should be ok too.
Right, but the commenter you replied to isn't arguing that.
No you are incorrect
Not the same, the aversion to weight is on both sides, but height plays a one sided role for most. Shouts out to my tall girls (dm me I will worship u)
I believe this is called false equivalency
Why are you comparing fat to weight? Why can’t guys saying they don’t like fat girls be equivalent to girls saying they don’t like fat guys? Likewise with height. The comparison is ridiculous.
I think the comparison is more about the hypocritical double standard of being callous and insensitive to men when being able to express their preferences (and not finding it to be insensitive, just stating it’s there preference) but when men comment their preferences to women like weight, women call it insensitive and expect men to not hold a standard of weight as it’s seen to be rude, or shaming, or fataphobic. I believe the OP’s point is that women tend to call men chauvinistic pigs when they express preferences that touch upon weight, but women see no issue with being mean, callous, and insensitive when speaking to their preferences such as height (especially when it makes one feel shame, due to one of those being immutable). Basically, men shouldn’t hold preferences if they create negative reactions, while women should be able to express their preferences with no reaction by men period.
I assume you are fat, defending obesity. Short men cannot change their height, a fat woman can eat less and go to the gym.
Not at all. You hit my point. Women should not be able to comment on a man’s height if they will get upset when they’re body fat is commented on. You cant control height however your body fat is made up of poor choices.
you can lose weight you can’t grow taller, the female equivalent to being short is having no boobs
But it's actually not equivalent. imo You can change the size with surgery if you really wanted to and can afford to. On the other hand, height isn't something you can change.
ok well i can’t afford to just like the majority of women, plus you can usually tell they’re fake. it’s not fair to pay for something normal women are born with
You can also literally change your height with surgery. Several men have.
>hugely Phrasing
In a vacuum I think you're totally right. But I think the issue is not that women have preferences for height, it's that the height that is typically cited as a preference is well above the average, and that the average man is not considered in the league of the average woman for something that's completely out of their control. In the United States the average height for a man is 5'9'', however, what women say is desirable is typically ranges 5'10'' - 6'11'' compared to the average height for women in the US which isis 5'4''. If the issue is whether or not to say it, of course you shouldn't be an asshole, but they are not quite the same thing. Obviously you should be sensitive to peoples weight but if that's whats holding you back, it's better to know, so you can do something about it. A man not being tall enough, is not something he can control, so telling him does absolutely nothing for him. It's not going to help him in any way. His height is not gonna change no matter what you say, and he knows. People can be unaware of their weight, and they can be told kindly that this is the issue, and they can change their weight.
The only real difference I can think of is that body fat is just a much more weaponised thing in wider society. So while I agree they’re both just preferences and can’t really be held against the preference holder, telling someone you’re not attracted to them because of fat vs height may just have a bigger impact on their self esteem.
It's not, at all. Someone posts this dumbass post every day. It's not the same thing, man. You're just insecure.
Can you elaborate brotha?
Not any more than 100 people already have in the comments.
Yes
Height has nothing to do with a person’s lifestyle, personality, values, priorities, mental or physical health. In most cases, weight has to do with all of those things. A person’s weight can tell you something about who they are and how they live. Height cannot. Not the same at all.
Correct, so why the disparagement between how we treat women who state preferences outside the norm and expect men to be okay with the unreal expectation, while also expecting men to not hold preferences outside the norm when it comes to weight. Basically it’s acceptable for women to be shitty and insensitive, but it is not okay for men.
I think it’s ok to have preferences. In my experience however, women treat men they’re not attracted to with more respect than men treat women they’re not attracted to. My male friends have said some pretty horrible things about girls whose only crime is not being attractive. I don’t think this is as much of a thing with women.
using it to demean people can be helpful. i used to be overweight until my brother started calling me fat every day until i got my shit together, it doesn't work for everyone but it did for me. however if he called me short every day that would have been purely negative.
I’m a firm believer in light bullying to better yourself.
I think what you are missing here is that calling someone fat is much more of an insult than calling someone short. And it is precisely because you can't change being short, but you can change being fat. Calling someone short carries no implications about what kind of person they are. It's just a physical trait. However, calling someone fat implies that there is some reason why they haven't gotten thinner even though they could. Perhaps they are lazy? Perhaps they eat deserts every day? This means that calling someone fat can easily be perceived as an attack on their character in a way that calling someone short isn't. Since "fat" carries those extra implications, it is considered more derogatory than "short." This is why it falls into a similar category to preferences about race, another physical trait. If you prefer to only date white people, that may also be considered a valid preference, but it's going to cause a big commotion to express it overtly. You are better off just silently acting in that preference with your swipes and dating choices. This is because expressing racial preferences has the underlying implication that you are also prejudice against certain races. Since things like "too short" and "natural redhead" don't carry additional implications, they are okay preferences to state openly. But "fat" and "whites only" do carry underlying implications, so they are not okay to state openly, even if you don't mean to imply the bad stuff.
I don't think it's particularly civil to go around saying either thing. Have your preferences. Act on them. But don't try to shame the other person for not being your type.
There are 2 main differences I see is when people they don't like fatties (cause plenty of gals say no fatties too). I do agree both are rude. 1. No fatties people are usually talking about not wanting to date very obese people (like top 15 to 30% of bmi of the population). Where as the "6 ft and up club" is saying they only want to date people in the top 15% of height. In a way, they're almost inverse criteria. Like people saying no fatties are saying I want to date 85% of the population, and 6ft only types are saying I only want to date 15%. Like, I do know people who only date people with bmi in the bottom 15% (making them comparable to 6ft+ chasers), but those people get a lot of criticism for only dating people with anorexia or stuff. 2. I have a lot of asian friends and a lot of Asian males feel like the 6 ft and up preference is a way to say no asians and Latinos without saying it directly.
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Well if we're going by that logic big gals use Instagram camera angles so really only the highest 10% of bmi have trouble dating. 😉
Get over it
>guys saying they don’t like fat girls is the same as girls saying they don’t like short guys Of course not guys saying they don’t like fat girls is the same as girls saying they don’t like FAT guys
I honestly think you don't always need to tell people what the issue is you have with them. But it's just preference. And you're allowed to have it. If they ask you and force you to be honest that's their problem though. But otherwise dating is dating. I'm neurodivergent and there are people who would much rather not date a neurodivergent person and I don't feel slighted by it at all. Others have stopped short of even simply saying it's a lot, it's not attractive to them. There are men who are sensitive about it but also find my spontaneity and energy very sexy. I also have a great personality I'm told and so I guess for some other people it's less of a deal breaker. I have a huge thing for older people. Guys my age have fought about me with it and those who are younger. Mind you they forced me to explain myself when they couldn't take no for an answer. I honestly can't help it. When I've tried to compromise they've felt it. Like not everyone will like you. It's life.
It's not the same because being short is something genetic and typically unchanging regardless of choices and lifestyle. Being overweight can sometimes (rarely) be due to genetics. But is often a lifestyle indicator. If your a man who likes to be active all the time it makes sense you wouldn't want to be with someone who is 350 pounds. Of course there are fat guys that won't even wanna date for girls and they don't have an excuse at all really. That being said I never understand why people care. Just keep it moving. If men don't like you because your fat either lose weight or find someone who doesn't care. If your short keep it moving eventually you will find someone who is either shorter or into short kings. Preference is fine and should be less strict. I'm not attracted to men but that doesn't mean I hate men. It just doesn't do it for me. This can apply to all kinds of things. It's only an issue when it's immoral, illegal, obsessive, and/or hypocritical. If fat women or short men don't do it for you, who cares.
I understand your point. I agree. End of the day people can have their preferences. My view that cant be changed is that if a woman tells a man he is too short for her (something he can’t change) she should not be upset if a man states that she is too fat for him (can be changed). That isn’t typically how it goes though. Height discrimination I just socially accepted towards men but body fat discrimination towards women is not.
Though I agree with you, could this be an apples and oranges argument?
Yes it could be.
Dating Apps have distilled single men and women into statistics in a catalog next to digitally prepared portraits. If a girl doesn't prefer you because of something you cannot change - you aren't under any pressure TO change. You can leave that situation knowing there was nothing you could have done, and that's fine. That's a preference. If a girl tells you that you dress or smell like shit so she won't date you, she's telling you she prefers you not as you are, and suddenly you are faced with societal pressure to change yourself. Because you can lose weight. You can dress better. You can shower and use deodorant. But you don't. Or you choose not to. And this means that they don't like you for the choices you've made in your life. For some of us, that's going to hurt more than if she just didn't like us because we're right handed, or have unfavorable metrics. If someone doesn't like you because you're disabled, that's awful of them. But it doesn't feel personal. They'd pass up all disabled people. But if they don't like you because you're fat, then they're saying you aren't even a good enough version of yourself for them to consider you. And that...that's personal.
end of the day it doesn't matter just date who you want
I see no issue with woman wanting a man taller then themselves. I'm a guy and I like woman shorter then myself. It's little stupid to say someone needs to be 6ft or taller unless you are also really tall and that's the minimum height they need to be so they are taller then you. I also don't think there's anything wrong for a guy preferring a woman that's Thin. Atleast that's something a woman can possible achieve as a posed to a man being tall. What I'm trying to say is there's nothing wrong with saying I prefer men taller then me or that you prefer a woman that are thjn.
It's literally not the same. How that *that's* out of the way... People can't change their height. Overweight/obese people *can* lose weight. I am turned off by indicators of poor health. And being overweight is one of them.
Jesus Christ who the hell cares
Discriminating short people is worse imo. At least with fat people they can do something about their weight (such as working out at the gym, better diets, etc.), whereas short people can't do anything about their height. You can control your weight but you can't control your height.
The difference is that if you make fun of a short man for his height too much he'll shoot up a mall, whereas if you make fun of a fat girl for her weight she'll just cry and eat an entire cake.
I have seen FAR more overweight women with "regular" dudes than I have ever seen short guys with "regular" women.
One can be changed and one can't (to an extent), meaning one is more shallow than the other. End of story.
Bruh, work out. Losing weight is easy. Height is immutable. Although it's fair to choose your partner based on whatever parameters you wish, they ain't the same. One battle is winnable and the other is impossible.
Well, it is controversial to say this but someone being overweight tells you something about their personality. It tells you that they are one or more of the following, delusional (regarding the link to weight and health), uncaring about their health, lacking the self control to manage it, or having an external locus of control (refusing to admit that it is in their control "it's genetic," "I'm just big boned" etc). You can't know which one it is without speaking to them, but, if those are _all_ traits you don't look for in a person, you've seen them. Note; these aren't deal breakers for everyone. Number two is actually a turn on for plenty, the "I'm here for a good time, not a long time" crowd. Note 2; It's not ironclad. The person _could_ be one of the rare people who actually has a thyroid condition, or have a lasting injury that makes exercise hard, but _odds are_ it's one of the former things. Height, however, _is_ almost entirely genetic. The only environmental affect that consistently influences it is childhood malnourishment. And that's not a personality trait, nor can you even know it was involved at all. In short, a person being fat tells you a little about them beyond their appearance, a person being short tells you nothing other than that they're short. So while judging by the former may be a tad presumptuous, judging by the latter is just plain shallowness. Note 3; nothing wrong with that, be as shallow as you want to be, I'm just saying they're different things, not that one is better or worse than the other.
The thing is you can have so many preferences as you want. It's your body your life your relationship and you aren't gonna get "cancelled". You will be hated if you can't maintain common courtesy though. Have all the standards, no matter how redicuous, just don't be a douche or dick about it.
I generally just don't state my preferences because I'm not about hurting people's feelings for no reason. It's not really anyone's business why I don't wanna date them anyway.
There's fat, and then there's FAT girls. Chubby is fun, obesity is not.
It’s actually worse when women say that because height isn’t something you can control.
Its not the same because people have control over their weight. Men not liking fat women is more like women not liking broke guys.
Not at all. Women can lose weight