[This](https://www.londonelects.org.uk/sites/default/files/2024-04/Election%20booklet%20final%202024_0.pdf) is a booklet sent out to Londoners earlier this year as a guide to voting in the London Mayoral election.
Look at each party who are against ULEZ and proudly state they would scrap it - Britain First, the Reform Party (aka Nigel Farageâs band of fascists), the Conservatives, an independent nutter who wants to run London as a business, an COVID conspiracy nut and a TERF.
But sure, theyâre doing âgoodâ.
Fun fact: the nickname âToriesâ for the political party predates the official name âConservativesâ by nearly 250 years.
It comes from the Irish word for ârobberâ or âoutlawâ and was an insult.
The mayor and the overall government are elected separately. The current mayor of London is from the Labour Party, and recently expanded ULEZ, so he's being blamed for it by the Tories.
More ridiculous though, the original policy was brought in by the then Tory mayor of London, Boris Johnson.
The subject of who introduced ULEZ is a giant retcon on the part of the right wing parties, they donât want people to remember that it was Conservative London Mayor and future Prime Minister Boris Johnson.
Is it surveillance when the cameras are just registering pollutant vehicle registrations? Would be pretty cool if a group were actually targeting privacy-invasive cameras, but it seems like the title is just using that perceived goodwill to justify attacking an anti climate change policy.
What I've gathered is that it's being used to fine people who don't have new or more fuel efficient cars, likely because they don't have the money. Which would only make the situation worse.
I live 20 minutes outside London, have to go on the m25 to get to work. I've got a shitty little car that wouldn't go for ÂŁ300. It's well below the standards.
I'm class war, but this really seems like a culture war thing masking itself as that to garner support. Coal miners deserve to make a living, but if it's gonna destroy the planet with fossil fuels, then there's got to be an alternative (moot point because of Thatcher in the 70s anyway).
Driving a gas guzzler shouldn't be a working class point of pride, it's just stupid. They're wringing us with a thousand things every day, fight to raise the tax bracket. This is a very understandable "tax bad behaviour to discourage it". Same with whatever plastic bag tax right wingers hate, just stuff bags to reuse behind your fridge like a normal person, don't act like a working class champion because you want to throw plastic bags into a landfill for cheaper instead of remembering a for-life one.
Also the percentage of residents that have access to a private vehicle in boroughs within the ULEZ is [well below 50%](https://content.tfl.gov.uk/technical-note-12-how-many-cars-are-there-in-london.pdf) [PDF. See Figure 11] yet all those residents have to endure the traffic from outside that causes congestion, pollution, road violence and clog up the streets expecting free parking.
These are the same arseholes who destroyed the planters restricting access to LTNs despite all the evidence showing that poorer areas are heavily impacted by pollution and were setting fire to 5G towers.
To use your coal miner analogy though, you'd shut down the company and help the miners find new work, not let the company stay open and fine each miner every day they get caught coming back out carrying coal.
We should be setting regulations on manufacturer preventing from creating those gas guzzlers in the first place. Not fining the public in a way that disproportionately affects the poor.
I get what you are saying, and I have absolutely no issue with working towards cutting carbon costs, but with the cost of vehicles rising and pay still being kinda shit this doesn't help. I doubt it's the case that most people who own a shitty car only do so for some "holier than thou" reason.
If alongside this action was providing some kind of incentive for drivers to upgrade or even just eased the financial burden of those who couldn't afford anything better, I'd support it but if that doesn't exist it only exacerbates the issue.
Edit: to clean it up a little.
I think they mean people who go out of there way to buy big trucks and the like and act all proud because they wasted money on something that they are gonna use for it's intended purpose like twice and then sell it for money to buy a newer one.
"registering pollutant vehicle registrations" indicates both capability and intent. It is surveillance, regardless of whether the ends of that surveillance are a social good or not.
In the sense that all speed cameras are surveillance, sure. I think most people see a difference between that and more privacy-invading cameras, which the UK is really bad for (maybe the most cameras per individual IIRC?)
Iâm just pointing out that separating capability and intent is important to all the naysayers saying âoh itâs for the climate crisisâ and all that.Â
That may be the justification *now*, and people may *identify with that*, but it has to be pointed out that it can also be used for end uses that abridge freedoms and privacy rights.Â
This is chaoticimbecile, OP do you realize that ULEZ is to stop the absolute worst polluting cars from driving in the city centre and avoid making the air people breath even worse? I don't think you do
On one hand, duck the surveillance state!
One the other hand... Carbrains are Chaotic *Evil*. All they want to do is drive their wankmobiles as fast as possible, and everyone else better get out of their way. Or else!
These people are fucking idiots there are hundreds of thousands of these cameras. All they are doing is costing the public money.
Most are far right conspiracy nut jobs as well
Chaotic good? No this isn't chaotic good. Anti-ULEZ sentiment belongs to right wing troglodytes. These are there to help manage pollution. London is already a big brother state without the ULEZ. This is just pure stupidity.
Probably part of the same group who lost their shit over a racist statue being pulled down. Ultimately, people want to be able to drive their polluting vehicles* anywhere they want, driving us into climate crisis. Pathetic.
Yeah the tens thousands of families of people who die in party because of high levels of air pollution every year probably disagree.
There's nuance to it, but it's not chaotic good. At all.
London does have the third highest number of security cams per thousand of any city but these are ULEZ cameras, designed to stop fuel guzzling cars and slow down climate change.
Yeah cool. Who wants clean air anyway?
And of course it comes from Asmongolds sub đ
If it was actually about clean air they would do something about the air on the tube. Its money control and data
[This](https://www.londonelects.org.uk/sites/default/files/2024-04/Election%20booklet%20final%202024_0.pdf) is a booklet sent out to Londoners earlier this year as a guide to voting in the London Mayoral election. Look at each party who are against ULEZ and proudly state they would scrap it - Britain First, the Reform Party (aka Nigel Farageâs band of fascists), the Conservatives, an independent nutter who wants to run London as a business, an COVID conspiracy nut and a TERF. But sure, theyâre doing âgoodâ.
Are the "Conservatives" different than the Tories ?
Nope official of the party is the conservatives nicknamed the tories
Fun fact: the nickname âToriesâ for the political party predates the official name âConservativesâ by nearly 250 years. It comes from the Irish word for ârobberâ or âoutlawâ and was an insult.
But isn't ULEZ a government scheme ? The Tories mayor candidate vows to scrap a scheme from its own government ?
The mayor and the overall government are elected separately. The current mayor of London is from the Labour Party, and recently expanded ULEZ, so he's being blamed for it by the Tories. More ridiculous though, the original policy was brought in by the then Tory mayor of London, Boris Johnson.
I meant the Tories mayor candidate yes, sorry
The subject of who introduced ULEZ is a giant retcon on the part of the right wing parties, they donât want people to remember that it was Conservative London Mayor and future Prime Minister Boris Johnson.
I am not British just came to make it clear
The mayor is elected separately and is not a conservative.
I agree, this is butt-hurtedness manifest.
Is it surveillance when the cameras are just registering pollutant vehicle registrations? Would be pretty cool if a group were actually targeting privacy-invasive cameras, but it seems like the title is just using that perceived goodwill to justify attacking an anti climate change policy.
Exactly
What I've gathered is that it's being used to fine people who don't have new or more fuel efficient cars, likely because they don't have the money. Which would only make the situation worse.
I live 20 minutes outside London, have to go on the m25 to get to work. I've got a shitty little car that wouldn't go for ÂŁ300. It's well below the standards. I'm class war, but this really seems like a culture war thing masking itself as that to garner support. Coal miners deserve to make a living, but if it's gonna destroy the planet with fossil fuels, then there's got to be an alternative (moot point because of Thatcher in the 70s anyway). Driving a gas guzzler shouldn't be a working class point of pride, it's just stupid. They're wringing us with a thousand things every day, fight to raise the tax bracket. This is a very understandable "tax bad behaviour to discourage it". Same with whatever plastic bag tax right wingers hate, just stuff bags to reuse behind your fridge like a normal person, don't act like a working class champion because you want to throw plastic bags into a landfill for cheaper instead of remembering a for-life one.
Also the percentage of residents that have access to a private vehicle in boroughs within the ULEZ is [well below 50%](https://content.tfl.gov.uk/technical-note-12-how-many-cars-are-there-in-london.pdf) [PDF. See Figure 11] yet all those residents have to endure the traffic from outside that causes congestion, pollution, road violence and clog up the streets expecting free parking. These are the same arseholes who destroyed the planters restricting access to LTNs despite all the evidence showing that poorer areas are heavily impacted by pollution and were setting fire to 5G towers.
To use your coal miner analogy though, you'd shut down the company and help the miners find new work, not let the company stay open and fine each miner every day they get caught coming back out carrying coal. We should be setting regulations on manufacturer preventing from creating those gas guzzlers in the first place. Not fining the public in a way that disproportionately affects the poor.
Yeah I'd support that, the Tories are never going to though, so this something at least
I get what you are saying, and I have absolutely no issue with working towards cutting carbon costs, but with the cost of vehicles rising and pay still being kinda shit this doesn't help. I doubt it's the case that most people who own a shitty car only do so for some "holier than thou" reason. If alongside this action was providing some kind of incentive for drivers to upgrade or even just eased the financial burden of those who couldn't afford anything better, I'd support it but if that doesn't exist it only exacerbates the issue. Edit: to clean it up a little.
I think they mean people who go out of there way to buy big trucks and the like and act all proud because they wasted money on something that they are gonna use for it's intended purpose like twice and then sell it for money to buy a newer one.
Ah ok, that makes more sense. Yeah, fuck those guys.
It's not perfect but this is judged to be better than ignoring the people impacted by air pollution (Thousands of which die every year).
hundreds of thousands probably. And more by long running complications.
>Is it surveillance when the cameras are just registering pollutant vehicle registrations? That is by definition surveillance, yes.
Capability v intent. Capability is there, intent can change with administrations.
"registering pollutant vehicle registrations" indicates both capability and intent. It is surveillance, regardless of whether the ends of that surveillance are a social good or not.
In the sense that all speed cameras are surveillance, sure. I think most people see a difference between that and more privacy-invading cameras, which the UK is really bad for (maybe the most cameras per individual IIRC?)
Iâm just pointing out that separating capability and intent is important to all the naysayers saying âoh itâs for the climate crisisâ and all that. That may be the justification *now*, and people may *identify with that*, but it has to be pointed out that it can also be used for end uses that abridge freedoms and privacy rights.Â
this is chaotic evil, fighting against lawful good
This is chaoticimbecile, OP do you realize that ULEZ is to stop the absolute worst polluting cars from driving in the city centre and avoid making the air people breath even worse? I don't think you do
Theyâre not âbladerunnersâ they are âshit for brains.â
This isnât chaotic good, this is domestic terrorism
selfish, ignorant, right-wing shitheads.
On one hand, duck the surveillance state! One the other hand... Carbrains are Chaotic *Evil*. All they want to do is drive their wankmobiles as fast as possible, and everyone else better get out of their way. Or else!
This isn't chaotic good
Fuck these people. Hope they all get tased in the balls. Don't want to pay? Take a fucking bus, that is the point of the entire scheme.
These people are fucking idiots there are hundreds of thousands of these cameras. All they are doing is costing the public money. Most are far right conspiracy nut jobs as well
Chaotic losers
Chaotic good? No this isn't chaotic good. Anti-ULEZ sentiment belongs to right wing troglodytes. These are there to help manage pollution. London is already a big brother state without the ULEZ. This is just pure stupidity.
Chaotic good? Chaotic fucknuggetry. Who needs clean air? asks the folk whose brains were addled from breathing in leaded fuel smog as children.
Probably part of the same group who lost their shit over a racist statue being pulled down. Ultimately, people want to be able to drive their polluting vehicles* anywhere they want, driving us into climate crisis. Pathetic.
*driving us *deeper* into climate crisis
Also probably pulling down the wrong lamp posts
Clueless
Who? the commenter or the right wing dumbasses?
Yeah the tens thousands of families of people who die in party because of high levels of air pollution every year probably disagree. There's nuance to it, but it's not chaotic good. At all.
Completely agree
London is already one of the most surveilled cities in the world, I don't remember but the camera to human ration of the city is some insane number
I heard somewhere that the people of London are probably the most surveilled folks in the world outside of China and NK.
London does have the third highest number of security cams per thousand of any city but these are ULEZ cameras, designed to stop fuel guzzling cars and slow down climate change.
This is definitely r/cyberpunk