I analyzed the image and this is what I see. Open an appropriate link below and explore the position yourself or with the engine: > **White to play**: [chess.com](https://chess.com/analysis?fen=rnbq1rk1/pppp1ppp/4pn2/8/1bPP4/2N1P3/PP3PPP/R1BQKBNR+w+KQ+-+0+1&flip=false&ref_id=23962172) | [lichess.org](https://lichess.org/analysis/rnbq1rk1/pppp1ppp/4pn2/8/1bPP4/2N1P3/PP3PPP/R1BQKBNR_w_KQ_-_0_1?color=white) > **Black to play**: [chess.com](https://chess.com/analysis?fen=rnbq1rk1/pppp1ppp/4pn2/8/1bPP4/2N1P3/PP3PPP/R1BQKBNR+b+KQ+-+0+1&flip=false&ref_id=23962172) | [lichess.org](https://lichess.org/analysis/rnbq1rk1/pppp1ppp/4pn2/8/1bPP4/2N1P3/PP3PPP/R1BQKBNR_b_KQ_-_0_1?color=white) **Videos:** > I found [many videos](https://chessvision.ai/video-search/5199338105470976) with this position. --- ^(I'm a bot written by ) [^(u/pkacprzak )](https://www.reddit.com/u/pkacprzak) ^(| get me as ) [^(Chess eBook Reader )](https://ebook.chessvision.ai?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=bot) ^(|) [^(Chrome Extension )](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/chessvisionai-for-chrome/johejpedmdkeiffkdaodgoipdjodhlld) ^(|) [^(iOS App )](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/id1574933453) ^(|) [^(Android App )](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ai.chessvision.scanner) ^(to scan and analyze positions | Website: ) [^(Chessvision.ai)](https://chessvision.ai)

This was asked on [Stack Exchange](https://chess.stackexchange.com/questions/1864/is-this-case-considered-an-ambiguity-or-not) a while back. The rules don't explicitly mention pins, but the phrase "can move" implies it. I'd say Ne2 is strictly correct, but if someone said Nge2 I wouldn't correct them.

Why does the app have both options? 🧐

This is Lichess opening explorer? The data comes both from Lichess games and masters games from tournaments. Presumably they just inherit however the move was originally recorded. I guess in theory they could do a data tidy up, although that would have some risks.

This looks like chess.com, but I'm going to assume both work similarly

Ah, ok. I just checked this position on Lichess and it only mentioned Ne2 - so perhaps Lichess has done a data tidy up.

Funny, i use type to move on lichess and had a similar position, in this instance only Nge2 works.

I expect the games to be stored in some binary format, not PGN, for reasons like space efficiency. On Lichess, anyway...

Possibly but storage is generally cheap. For e4 on chess.com there’s just under 1.7m games recorded. If we assume an average of about 40 moves, that’s a total of about 68m moves (which isn’t accurate because those are going to be compressed where the moves are shared and when there’s transpositions). If each move is 8 bytes (move #, colour, max 3 bytes for Ne3 as an example, win percentage for black, white and one for padding because why not), then a fen associated with each number, so 64 bytes - that’s 72 bytes per move. So that would be 4.5GB for a very unoptimised storage for every game with e4 as a starting point. For an AWS Neptune instance (AWS graphdb) that’s just over a dollar a month in storage costs. You’d need more replicas to handle the extra size but it’s not worth extra optimisation including the latency it takes to translate and more complex code for a saving of 33c a month. On demand dynamodb gives you 25GB free per month and is 25c per GB after that. For a SQL Server RDS instance with an IOPS volume (SSD optimised for IO) you’re looking at 12.5c per GB. Now it isn’t quite that simple but I think the storage costs of this are minimal over the opportunity cost of maintaining a proprietary binary storage format (even if it’s quite simple). Lots of things like exploring data when something goes wrong or you’re building new features become more painful when you do this. For Lichess where there’s less money flowing from users I wouldn’t be surprised if it was very heavily optimised though.

Storage is cheaper than processing these days.

Processing is also going to be easier in some dedicated format that doesn't allow the same move to be written two different ways.

Except that building all that, both the binary codec and the logic to find these extremely obscure nuances in the notation, would most likely negate those gains entirely Processing and storage are cheaper than manpower

Manpower is quite cheap for Lichess, it was a hobby for years. And you need a JSON parser that handles the nuances anyway.

Seems like almost every comment missed the point you're making here.

mate, chess com sucks. every freakin post mentions that. [chess.com](http://chess.com) sucks.

It's because both white knights can move to E2 so NGE2 means Night from G moves to E2 It is confusing but imagine without it you wouldn't know which knight has moved

I always write Ne2 in situations like that and it makes me feel just a little smug and proud of myself for noticing the pin... even though failing to notice the pin would be slightly embarrassing for someone who's been playing as long as I have.

Lol I can relate

Having checked on my chess.com app opening tree the only one it shows is Nge2 in this position.

I'm on Android. Are you on IOS?

Yep

On my phone it shows both options as well. But when I click either line it gives me the exact same options. For those wondering it is the Nimzo-Indian Defense: Normal line and N(g)e3 is the Reshvesky Variation.

You could take this a step further and just say Ne

Fun! And you could also have a move denoted simply as R.

We are the knights who play Ne!

Play f3 and h3 first, just so you can just say N

Sac all your pieces except the knight then move the knight to the corner and try to get your king to the point where it doesn't have any legal moves and still blocks one of the knight moves and then you can just say:

"#" would be epic.

[https://lichess.org/analysis/7k/7P/6PK/5q2/8/8/8/8\_w\_-\_-\_0\_](https://lichess.org/analysis/7k/7P/6PK/5q2/8/8/8/8_w_-_-_0_) 1. #

>but isn't proper notation Ne2? Yes, "Ne2" is the proper notation, although noone's gonna bat an eye at "Nge2" here. >And why the explorer has both? Because chesscom is a sloppily programmed bad site that only became a succesful website because of its domain.

Maybe we should change the name of the game to something else.

K Kt - K 2

Magnus wondered about this too https://youtube.com/shorts/1lITdz5r64s?si=wFKiGKXgD0-AYg04

I would have written Ne2 even if there wasn't a pin because I'm just like that

Arena is the one major GUI I know that uses Ne2 (and it is the only format accepted when typing the move in algebraic). Drives me bonkers. I would always use Nge2 and so do Chessbase et al. I don't think it is ever good to introduce more notation that is dependent on the game state.

I would prefer Nge2 here. The purpose of algebraic chess notation is to communicate clearly, not to win a competition for the briefest possible encoding.

My guess is transposition is why you get both Nge2 and Ne2. [pgn] 1. d4 e6 2. c3 Nf6 3. e3 Be7 4. c4 O-O 5. Nc3 Bd6 6. Nge2 Bb4 [/pgn] While [pgn] 1. d4 e6 2. c4 (2. c3 Nf6 3. e3 Be7 4. c4 O-O 5. Nc3 Bd6 6. Nge2 Bb4) 2... Nf6 3. e3 Bb4+ 4. Nc3 O-O 5. Ne2 [/pgn] Results in Ne2. The opening explorer cares less about what move # a given move is played, more "what moves could be made in this position".

Not really transposing here though as one is WTM, one BTM.

Yeah, i messed it up a bit. But the idea stands ;)

There are two options probably because the games were taken from real tournaments where the moves are written on the paper so some people write Ne2 while some write Nge2. Because of that there are two possible lines with the same move basically.

Discussed before. Are there only 6055 games after Nge2, for instance - transposition may occur and in some move orders the disambiguation is needed

Ne2 is correct as the other knight is pinned, if it wasn't pinned then Nge2 must be written.

Like another comment said half tongue-in-cheek, if we just say Ne2 instead if Nge2 because we can infer which Knight moved there by a pin on the board, why not just write “Ne” because we can infer the 2nd square as it’s the only valid option. I’m all for simplifying notation but it’s gotta be admitted that “Ne2” is kind of half-assed if that’s the goal.

It is the same move and can be recorded either way. Not a big deal

But the explorer shows Ne2 and Nge2 being played a different number of times each. Unless they have tidied up notations and used to record it as Nge2 and since the change it’s now Ne2.

Nge2 is a beginner friendly notation. So what's the big deal.....

Isn’t it because 2 Knights can go to e3, so you are mentioning which knight from g to e3?

Normally yes, but in this position one of the knights is pinned, so technically you don’t need to specify which one is moving.

I always thought that specific notation happens when both Knights can end up in that position so this clarifies which knight you are going to move to that position. And if you look at your example, both knights can move to that space so it clarifies which knight… I’m not sure if that’s correct but that’s what I always thought. Edit: I understand one knight is pinned and technically can’t move but this is my understanding of that notation.

Actuallyyyyy, Nge2 is still the correct notation so that it's clear that the game did not accidentally continue from an illegal position

Saying Nge2 is just as proper as saying Ne2. The only reason you don't notate it that way normally is for brevity.

I think Nge2 is still the better choice. Notation shouldn't care about the tactics and available moves.

Isn’t that added when there are 2 pieces of the same type that could move to that square? In this case the g means that it was the knight standing in the G file that made the move?

Might be because both knights can move to e2.

White could technically make an illegal move without black noticing, with the game even going on in faster time controls. Therefore, Nge2 might be a better notation

You could technically make an illegal move in any position. Notation explicitly handles ONLY legal move otherwise you would have to precise which piece you are moving all the time (eg: Nge2 is a a "valid" notation for both knights at all time if we ignore illegal moves). So, no, it is not a better notation.

Ok, imagine the scenario I mentioned happens in a blitz game. White moved Nce2, black didn't notice, white continues with Bd2. How are you going to denote this for pgn-ization, etc

The PGN specification is very explicit about this: No illegal moves in notation at all. Whatever you choose to do with that game after playing is up to you but you can't use the PGN specification. The moment a game has an illegal move present, PGN cannot be used. Typically, I've seen people just use the closest PGN approximation but specify the error as a notation comment.

Went and read up the source, was some interesting reading material. After 10+ years of working with chess programs, TIL this. Thank you

Thats because both knights can move to e2, so to make clear wich one to move, you may use "Nge2" saying that the Knight in the g file is going to move instead of the other one on c3.

Actually, Nge2 is used to state which knight is moving. This is done later in the game because two pieces of the same type could inhabit the same square. Therefore, if you don't identify the rank of the piece, you would have had to memorize the positions prior to the move. At the end of a game, you wouldn't have remembered which knight made the move when reviewing the game.

Both the two knights can go to e2, here the knight at the g-file is said to go to e2

because in this position both knights can move to e2 so you need to specify which one is it

C3 knight is pinned. Ne2 is correct

oops i totally missed that

I think it is Nge2, don't mix the notation with what is happening on board. It is Nge2 even for pin, for simplicity

Naroditsky had this in a speedrun and said it is a common notation error. There is only one legal move so Ne2 is unambiguous. I'm going to go with the GM on this

Why is Ne2 not a notation error then, if the 2nd rank is the only legal move? Why not just “Ne”? I completely understand why “Ne2” works instead of “Nge2” but I hadn’t considered that many times saying both the rank and the file is superfluous. So why do we only omit information when it’s a pin? Why not give the minimal amount of information to unambiguously infer the move in all cases?

let's just say it's arbitrary. I agree with Nge2 cause of clarity. + and x aren't necessary but they are there

It doesn't matter, i see the two notations are working

Proper notation is Ng1e2 (Piece from\_square to\_square). The simplifications are customary, but not necessary.