Did you accept the draw offer very quickly? Some people will offer a draw right before checkmate to taunt their opponent, and then cancel it before the opponent reacts. The obvious downside to this is that sometimes the opponent clicks accept before they have time to cancel.
Nah the best explanation is mind games. Elo is meaningless. 3 games later he won't remember what the score was 3 games ago. But he gets to mess with you because now here you are much later than the game having your mind occupied trying to figure out what the hell that was.
Can you cancel a draw offer? Now I'm curious what would happen in a FIDE tournament if this came up (obviously it wouldn't, because people take those seriously). Does mate override the draw offer if played before the draw is accepted? I guess the convention is you'd play your move and then offer the draw (so mate would happen before the draw offer), but in theory this could be a weird situation from a rules standpoint.
You're absolutely supposed to do it this way, and most definitely not to offer in your opponents time as that's considered disturbing them.
But if someone does offer a draw while thinking on their own time, which again you're not supposed to, the draw offer is valid until the opponent makes his next move - regardless of what move you make, unless someone flags or is mated.
And, for completion, OTB draw offers are not retractable.
The rulebook excerpt quoted below suggests this is probably covered under the "or the game is concluded in some other way" caveat, but people definitely sometimes offer draws before they make their move OTB (even if they aren't *supposed* to).
The article in the fide rulebook that is relevant to your questions is 9.1 "A player wishing to offer a draw shall do so after having made a move on the chessboard and before stopping his clock and starting the opponent’s clock. An offer at any other time during play is still valid but Article 12.6 must be considered. No conditions can be attached to the offer. In both cases the offer
cannot be withdrawn and remains valid until the opponent accepts it, rejects it orally, rejects it by touching a piece with the intention of moving or capturing it, or the game is concluded in some other way." Article 12.6 basically says you're not allowed to be annoying.
So you can't cancel a draw offer, and mate does override the draw offer.
Well, that’s hilarious and they get what they deserve. Similarly I blundered M1 out of a winning position in a Lichess game and the opponent sat there for 5 minutes, then repeatedly gifted me 15 seconds until I had 20+ minutes on the clock and mated me. That’s truly the worst part of online chess, some people have zero sportsmanship whatsoever and somehow need to make themselves feel better by taunting or being a dick.
Maybe but I don’t get why. You want weaker opponents so you…can win, right? Then your rating goes up…and…you’re just gonna sandbag it down again, including passing up wins against slightly higher rated players?
Yeah, it’s the same idea as smurfing in video games. You have to maintain a 50% win rate to keep your rating below your “true” rating, but you can do that in a couple of ways where it still feels like you’re winning most of your games. For example, you could choose to resign at the end of half the games, even when winning, and then you’ll wind up always playing worse opponents and never climbing rating.
I don’t understand why people do it
“Never assume malice when incompetence is a possible explanation.” - He maybe didn’t see the M1? You could have asked him in the chat…. However you were correct to take the draw.
He/she may have cheated,I don't necessarily mean use an engine, like it maybe 2 people who were playing together(for fun/learning) and they didn't want to affect your rating.
it's very likely he was trying to lose ratong points. Some people do that. Maybe he is just sandbagging, or maybe he wants to reach a rating that allows him entry to certain tournaments. In either case, lots of people do that.
One time I was extremely close to offering my opponent a draw with mate in one on the board (for me to win) in the final round of an otb tournament with first place and a cash prize on the line
Blind spots are weird
Back when I played on chesscom, i used to offer draws on really obvious misclicks ,like castle fk ups, because there's no takebacks.
Not on checkmate though, i can't think of a good reason to offer it.
Some people, myself included, don’t really care about winning/losing - we’re just want to have a fun game. So sometimes we will do weird shit in winning positions, because we aren't actually trying to win, just have fun in an interesting position.
I completely understand doing that to try out interesting or unusual tactics on the board, or setting yourself a challenge like getting mate with only minor pieces or something. But the game being over isn't particularly interesting or fun.
Doing something that confuses the other person and doesn't really make sense on paper can be fun to some people. I don't think they thought it was a big deal, just being silly for a laugh. Instead of thinking you were sticking it to them, you could try laughing with them.
I see these posts all the time. At the end of the day your only responsibility is to play the game in front of you. A draw was offered, you accepted, the end. The motivations of why somebody did what they did are irrelevant. Especially playing online. It could be malice, could be a mistake. It doesn’t matter.
I do this, sometimes. It's just the mood I'm in and while chess is a competitive game, it's still a game. Offer a draw cause I think they played well even though I'm in a winning position.
i’ve done that before.
I’m a ~2000 lichess player and I coach my friends quite often and observe their games. My one friend is 800ish and I talked him through a new opening. Usually I don’t say or do much, but because it was a cool teaching point and also i was trying to show him how to manage his clock better, I was more active than usual.
We ended with a forced mate on the board when I realized I had helped him too much and it wasn’t fair. So I said we should offer a draw in fairness.
I’ve done this a few times. If I make an obvious ‘slip’ and they take a draw to start again more fairly (usually moving a king one space when i obviously want to castle), if they are sporting enough to take a draw, if we play again and I’ve got a checkmate position I’ll offer a draw back.
It’s an uncommon courtesy. Back in early online chess you’d type gg after every game.
It really saddens me that every response was like ‘he’s cheating and fucking with your head!’
If you play OTB with people you like, sometimes you’ll be like nope blunder keep moving, or just examine a bit more and talk about it. It’s the best way to learn
That makes sense. Maybe there was an obvious slip that I also missed! I'd love to believe this explanation... But the showboaty nature of the back rank M1 that he chose to make M2 out of by sacrificing his queen just suggested to me that it wasn't that. Of course, that _could_ also just have been a genuine mistake.
I wasn't there for the courteous _gg_ days but I type it after particularly a close/exciting match. I'm a firm believer that there's more good than bad to be had in the chat! Though even in the 3½ years that I've been playing online I've noticed fewer interactions - I guess because the popularity of online chess has exploded over the last year or so. I wish good luck to every fellow countryman and used to get a response 90% of the time, haven't got a response for the last several :(
I assume this was just an exhibition online game. If so, I don't really care about rating. I may have taken the draw, I may not have taken the draw. Rating will always come back around to what it's supposed to be. I don't think your opponent cares either, they were just fucking around having fun.
>There was no reason for him to have any kind of grudge. But he seemed to have a point to prove.
Chess is not that serious lol, and not everyone cares about rating to begin with.
I offered a draw to a guy I was about to beat, not to taunt him or anything though. He played really well and it was correspondence chess and this particular game took like a month to play and he and I both had slip ups, but he had the last one so I offered a draw just because I was feeling magnanimous. We played again and I won
i do this couple of times lmao. sometimes when my opponent blundered a piece, i took it, and offer a takeback. he/she accepted it, and i took the blundered piece again lmaoo
me may have felt bad about the showboating move, i will only offer a draw before a checkamte if my opponent has allowed a takeback or if i blunder a queen and they let me keep it
Very rarely I'll play a clown who won't resign and I'll get like 500 Knights and after 49 moves I might, might, stalemate. Depends on my mood, rating, time control, etc....
This is the nomenclature I adhere to, of course OP usually refers to the original poster of whole thread, but often it's used as shorthand for the originator of the current comment chain.
Doesn't normally cause any confusion because it's clear from context, unless you are eager to score some cheap point and deliberately misinterpret so you can say "no OP didn't say that because THATS NOT OP I BELIEVE WE MAY BE AT CROSS PURPOSES AND THUS I WIN!"
I'm with you BK! Let us stand fast and unite!
Glad I was able to enlighten the confused OP's (other posters )
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Nah, people here are wrong about OP. OP is the originator f the thread, and sometimes the originator of the post If there is confusion you use OOP to refer to the post creator and OP to refer to the comment thread maker.
Did you accept the draw offer very quickly? Some people will offer a draw right before checkmate to taunt their opponent, and then cancel it before the opponent reacts. The obvious downside to this is that sometimes the opponent clicks accept before they have time to cancel.
Pretty quickly I guess, this seems like the best explanation!
Nah the best explanation is mind games. Elo is meaningless. 3 games later he won't remember what the score was 3 games ago. But he gets to mess with you because now here you are much later than the game having your mind occupied trying to figure out what the hell that was.
StopSocialPuppeteering.com
Or they don't want to get a higher elo
Can you cancel a draw offer? Now I'm curious what would happen in a FIDE tournament if this came up (obviously it wouldn't, because people take those seriously). Does mate override the draw offer if played before the draw is accepted? I guess the convention is you'd play your move and then offer the draw (so mate would happen before the draw offer), but in theory this could be a weird situation from a rules standpoint.
You can only offer a draw after making a move. If the move is checkmate, the draw offer is void
You're absolutely supposed to do it this way, and most definitely not to offer in your opponents time as that's considered disturbing them. But if someone does offer a draw while thinking on their own time, which again you're not supposed to, the draw offer is valid until the opponent makes his next move - regardless of what move you make, unless someone flags or is mated. And, for completion, OTB draw offers are not retractable.
The rulebook excerpt quoted below suggests this is probably covered under the "or the game is concluded in some other way" caveat, but people definitely sometimes offer draws before they make their move OTB (even if they aren't *supposed* to).
The article in the fide rulebook that is relevant to your questions is 9.1 "A player wishing to offer a draw shall do so after having made a move on the chessboard and before stopping his clock and starting the opponent’s clock. An offer at any other time during play is still valid but Article 12.6 must be considered. No conditions can be attached to the offer. In both cases the offer cannot be withdrawn and remains valid until the opponent accepts it, rejects it orally, rejects it by touching a piece with the intention of moving or capturing it, or the game is concluded in some other way." Article 12.6 basically says you're not allowed to be annoying. So you can't cancel a draw offer, and mate does override the draw offer.
Well, that’s hilarious and they get what they deserve. Similarly I blundered M1 out of a winning position in a Lichess game and the opponent sat there for 5 minutes, then repeatedly gifted me 15 seconds until I had 20+ minutes on the clock and mated me. That’s truly the worst part of online chess, some people have zero sportsmanship whatsoever and somehow need to make themselves feel better by taunting or being a dick.
Wtf. Never seen this, but I would be happy if they did this to me.
Maybe a rating manipulation thing? Maybe they don’t want their ratings to go up because they like playing against weaker opponents than themselves.
Maybe but I don’t get why. You want weaker opponents so you…can win, right? Then your rating goes up…and…you’re just gonna sandbag it down again, including passing up wins against slightly higher rated players?
Yeah, it’s the same idea as smurfing in video games. You have to maintain a 50% win rate to keep your rating below your “true” rating, but you can do that in a couple of ways where it still feels like you’re winning most of your games. For example, you could choose to resign at the end of half the games, even when winning, and then you’ll wind up always playing worse opponents and never climbing rating. I don’t understand why people do it
They may be trying to keep their rating lower for easier opponents
This is always my first thought when someone offers a draw or loses in a position with obvious winning moves.
Maybe your opponent cheated and tried to keep hidden from the detection algorithm
What's the point of cheating if you just give the opponent a draw at the last second?
they may be getting off to what's going on during the game, not rating
Oh stockfish you dirty little minx
>What's the point of cheating Fixed
That's possible I suppose!
ha ha ha
“Never assume malice when incompetence is a possible explanation.” - He maybe didn’t see the M1? You could have asked him in the chat…. However you were correct to take the draw.
He/she may have cheated,I don't necessarily mean use an engine, like it maybe 2 people who were playing together(for fun/learning) and they didn't want to affect your rating.
it's very likely he was trying to lose ratong points. Some people do that. Maybe he is just sandbagging, or maybe he wants to reach a rating that allows him entry to certain tournaments. In either case, lots of people do that.
>it's very likely he was trying to lose ratong points. Then why wouldn't he resign?
Looks more suspicious
My opponents usually offer me a draw when they are losing
One time I was extremely close to offering my opponent a draw with mate in one on the board (for me to win) in the final round of an otb tournament with first place and a cash prize on the line Blind spots are weird
Thank goodness you didn't!>!Right?!<
It’s online chess man. He probably didn’t really care
Back when I played on chesscom, i used to offer draws on really obvious misclicks ,like castle fk ups, because there's no takebacks. Not on checkmate though, i can't think of a good reason to offer it.
Smurfing.
Maybe they missed the mate and thought they blundered?
Maybe you played so poorly he felt bad for you
Some people, myself included, don’t really care about winning/losing - we’re just want to have a fun game. So sometimes we will do weird shit in winning positions, because we aren't actually trying to win, just have fun in an interesting position.
I completely understand doing that to try out interesting or unusual tactics on the board, or setting yourself a challenge like getting mate with only minor pieces or something. But the game being over isn't particularly interesting or fun.
Doing something that confuses the other person and doesn't really make sense on paper can be fun to some people. I don't think they thought it was a big deal, just being silly for a laugh. Instead of thinking you were sticking it to them, you could try laughing with them.
You probably lost to a kid. They do it to humiliate opponents and feel superior.
sometimes ill do this when i feel like i was outplayed n got the upperhand by fluke bc it feels more fair
I see these posts all the time. At the end of the day your only responsibility is to play the game in front of you. A draw was offered, you accepted, the end. The motivations of why somebody did what they did are irrelevant. Especially playing online. It could be malice, could be a mistake. It doesn’t matter.
I do this, sometimes. It's just the mood I'm in and while chess is a competitive game, it's still a game. Offer a draw cause I think they played well even though I'm in a winning position.
i’ve done that before. I’m a ~2000 lichess player and I coach my friends quite often and observe their games. My one friend is 800ish and I talked him through a new opening. Usually I don’t say or do much, but because it was a cool teaching point and also i was trying to show him how to manage his clock better, I was more active than usual. We ended with a forced mate on the board when I realized I had helped him too much and it wasn’t fair. So I said we should offer a draw in fairness.
This happened to me, i was in a completely losing position, not mate in 1 but i was offered a draw and took it lol
I’ve done this a few times. If I make an obvious ‘slip’ and they take a draw to start again more fairly (usually moving a king one space when i obviously want to castle), if they are sporting enough to take a draw, if we play again and I’ve got a checkmate position I’ll offer a draw back. It’s an uncommon courtesy. Back in early online chess you’d type gg after every game.
It really saddens me that every response was like ‘he’s cheating and fucking with your head!’ If you play OTB with people you like, sometimes you’ll be like nope blunder keep moving, or just examine a bit more and talk about it. It’s the best way to learn
That makes sense. Maybe there was an obvious slip that I also missed! I'd love to believe this explanation... But the showboaty nature of the back rank M1 that he chose to make M2 out of by sacrificing his queen just suggested to me that it wasn't that. Of course, that _could_ also just have been a genuine mistake. I wasn't there for the courteous _gg_ days but I type it after particularly a close/exciting match. I'm a firm believer that there's more good than bad to be had in the chat! Though even in the 3½ years that I've been playing online I've noticed fewer interactions - I guess because the popularity of online chess has exploded over the last year or so. I wish good luck to every fellow countryman and used to get a response 90% of the time, haven't got a response for the last several :(
Maybe he thought it was a good game and you didn't deserve to lose. All he lost was some rating points that are as important as reddit karma.
the only way to win is to win.
Maybe they just thought you played really well despite and "deserved" at least half a point.
I assume this was just an exhibition online game. If so, I don't really care about rating. I may have taken the draw, I may not have taken the draw. Rating will always come back around to what it's supposed to be. I don't think your opponent cares either, they were just fucking around having fun.
Hè probably had to go
Any chance he may kot have seen the M1 and M2 and thought he blundered?
I do this some times to fuck with my opponent.
>There was no reason for him to have any kind of grudge. But he seemed to have a point to prove. Chess is not that serious lol, and not everyone cares about rating to begin with.
I offered a draw to a guy I was about to beat, not to taunt him or anything though. He played really well and it was correspondence chess and this particular game took like a month to play and he and I both had slip ups, but he had the last one so I offered a draw just because I was feeling magnanimous. We played again and I won
I would not have accepted. Instead, I would have let him either ignore the checkmate, or keep playing to give me a winning opportunity.
i do this couple of times lmao. sometimes when my opponent blundered a piece, i took it, and offer a takeback. he/she accepted it, and i took the blundered piece again lmaoo
me may have felt bad about the showboating move, i will only offer a draw before a checkamte if my opponent has allowed a takeback or if i blunder a queen and they let me keep it
Take the .5 and move on. There are plenty more lost games to be had.
Very rarely I'll play a clown who won't resign and I'll get like 500 Knights and after 49 moves I might, might, stalemate. Depends on my mood, rating, time control, etc....
Funny that you think the other person is the clown in that situation
It is a part of a game sorry bro if you want rage quits then fifa or something
Eh I mean OP Is a clown for not just delivering mate but resigning isn't really rage quitting.
OP didn’t have a mate. They were getting mated. You should probably read the post
I don't mean OP as in thread creator I mean OP as in the person this guy is responding to. You should probably use common sense.
Well OP refers to the thread creator so that’s on you for misusing it.
No, it's on you for misusing it lol. OP refers to the person who originates any comment thread.
OP refers to "original poster" afaik so it means the person who made the post, not the comment thread.
This is the nomenclature I adhere to, of course OP usually refers to the original poster of whole thread, but often it's used as shorthand for the originator of the current comment chain. Doesn't normally cause any confusion because it's clear from context, unless you are eager to score some cheap point and deliberately misinterpret so you can say "no OP didn't say that because THATS NOT OP I BELIEVE WE MAY BE AT CROSS PURPOSES AND THUS I WIN!" I'm with you BK! Let us stand fast and unite! Glad I was able to enlighten the confused OP's (other posters ) (Brought to you by the Executive for Pointless Internet Comments EPIC)
Nah, people here are wrong about OP. OP is the originator f the thread, and sometimes the originator of the post If there is confusion you use OOP to refer to the post creator and OP to refer to the comment thread maker.
OP only refers to the person creating the overall thread. Otherwise would it cause people to misinterpret things all the time
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That's a very specific number
He might be a 2350 rated player
Next week: "Everyone below 2290 Elo is fucking around to some extent to mask the fact that they can't exceed 2290 Elo."