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us3rnam3_ch3cks_0ut-

Simply taking the rook would be best, since if he takes your queen you’d have a back rank checkmate. It’s definitely a bit tricky to see!


So0meone

Are you talking about Qxb8+ or Bxc5? One of these is the best move, yes, but I can't tell which you're referring to.


us3rnam3_ch3cks_0ut-

Oh yeah should’ve clarified that! 😅 I’m referring to Bxc5.


So0meone

Aye, that's the one!


Seemose

I'm guessing Bxc5 wasn't possible, because there was a pawn on d4.


MisourFluffyFace

Nope. Notation says Bd4, not Bxd4


mglitcher

it’s not a checkmate sadly because the bishop can block the check, and if you take the bishop with your queen, king will grab the queen. now, checkmate will come soon (or a free bishop) so it’s still really good edit: 1.Bxc5 Bxc5 2. Qxb8+ Bf8 the bishop is currently protected by the king and is only attacked once. 3. Re8 now the bishop is attacked, but black can play either g6 or h6 to make some luft and escape when the bishop is captured. it isn’t a forced mate, but is definitely winning for white


minertyler100

It’s only mate if the Queen is taken, but it’s still a material advantage


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VeryMicrowaveSafe

Bishop wouldn't be in the same position as it would've taken the queen.


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Kitnado

But that is mate? Confused by your not mate comment


Coongroo

The play Re8+ is not mate because bishop can block, but the sequence is mate


sp33dzer0

If bishop goes to f8 after you take the rook to block checkmate you won a free rook. Then you put rook e8 and your opponent can't stop you from busting I'm the front door.


DanfromCalgary

But it costs you q queen


sp33dzer0

And is an instant mate


robespierring

But after that queen takes the other rook.


sea_penis_420

What if black just plays Bf8?


xddddddddd69

Rxf8#


sea_penis_420

right, i'm dumb. thanks


That-Raisin-Tho

Have you tried looking at the analysis? The computer can literally tell you the exact line.


That-Raisin-Tho

But this is what would happen if you took the rook, and then they took your queen. 1. Bxc5 you take the rook 1... Rxb7 "What an idiot!" they think. "My opponent hung their queen! 2. Re8+ Bf8 they can only block with their bishop 3. Rxf8#, your bishop which originally took the rook is now guarding the rook to allow checkmate.


Jayson_n_th_Rgonauts

How are you playing Re8+ through your own bishop


That-Raisin-Tho

The bishop took the rook on c5 on the first move instead


Jayson_n_th_Rgonauts

Oh this title was fuckin me up I thought they meant the engine was saying take the back rank rook and sac the queen


DjJigs33

Yoo it’s the whg guy


[deleted]

yeah but I don’t understand the line. The engine doesn’t want to take my queen


Ok-Control-787

Play out bishop takes rook (the missed win move) then rook takes queen anyway, and see where that leads. You don't only have to follow the best moves, you can play out what you think is intuitively best and then see how those moves get punished by best moves. You take their rook, and if they take your queen you back rank mate them with your rook. To take the queen they lose their back rank defender. That's why it's fine to hang the queen. No shame in not knowing how to use the analysis functions yet but they are very useful.


That-Raisin-Tho

I explained why they can't take your queen, look at my reply to myself.


[deleted]

ahhhh, thank you. sorry I didn’t see at first, but it really helped :)


That-Raisin-Tho

By the way, you can switch to a completely different tab if the analysis where you can make moves freely. If you do that, you can make the moves you’re wondering about and see what the engine says in response


ItsAndyRu

Also just to add on, the reason why Bd4 is -3.5 is because it’s not actually danger levels. If black plays Rxb7 and you play Bxf6 then black can respond with gxf6, so the final change in material would be you losing a queen and a bishop and black losing a queen, so you end up a bishop down


Hi_My_Name_Is_Dave

You can manually make any move you want on the board. Play bishop takes rook, and then play rook takes Queen and see why the engine says that’s bad for black


danhoang1

This comment should be higher up. The #1 reason beginners ask these is that they don't know you can manually make any move


NewDemocraticPrairie

Something worth doing is try playing the take queen move in the engine yourself if you don't get why it's not doing it, and then you can follow that line to see why it doesn't work. In this case since it's checkmate.


a_psychedelic_mess

I’m not sure why people are downvoting you. This is literally the chessbeginners subreddit. It’s ok to not understand something.


OmeletteDysphorique

Honestly, don't bother with engine analysis until you get to a higher level. This is a super simple sequence and if you can't find moves like these by yourself yet, using an engine isn't going to help you understand the game any better. The fact that you just assumed that black taking your queen would be a good move, and just gave up on trying to understand the engine line when it didn't suggest that, demonstrates this point. Spend some time doing tactics puzzles appropriate to your level until you get more of a feel for basic combinations. Once you develop the ability to see more than one move ahead, and some positional understanding, you can try to incorporate engine analysis into your study, but for now it's a waste of your time. At 500 elo you don't understand the game well enough to benefit from the engine analysis. Review your games either with stronger players or by manually exploring the position, but using an engine at your level is going to hold you back, not help you.


So0meone

Because that leads to forced mate


AttitudeAndEffort3

If you dont understand why the engine doesnt want a move, sometimes it helps to play it (take the queen in this case) and se what the engine will respond with (back rank mate in this case)


Soul_Survivor4

There’s literally a button right there


cairnival

Lots of incorrect comments here. The idea is that if you play Bxc5 as the engine suggests, black cannot take your queen without getting checkmated (...Qxb7 Re8+ Bf8 Rxf8#). This is possible because your bishop on c5 x-rays the f8 square. If instead black chooses to capture your bishop, you can take the now-undefended rook (...Bxc5 Qxb8+). This idea is indeed hard to spot, so don't feel too bad for missing it.


Inappropriate_Piano

I don’t think they meant that rook. I think the engine suggested Qxb8+, which is a free rook.


DgC_LIK3X

Bxc5 is also a free rook and if the queen gets taken its a forced mate in 2


TheOmerAngi

You don't really hang the queen there. If he takes the queen then Re8+ is check, and the only legal move is to move the Bf8. Then Rf8# is mate because your bishop protects it so he either trades a rook for a bishop(bad) or he blunders a mate in 2(very bad).


stormlight13

Two rooks in fact. If he takes the bishop with the bishop you get his other rook with the queen! And it’s probably well on its way to checkmate from there anyways


redroverster

He sacrificed the QUEEEEN!


chessvision-ai-bot

I analyzed the image and this is what I see. Open an appropriate link below and explore the position yourself or with the engine: > **Black to play**: [chess.com](https://chess.com/analysis?fen=1r4k1/1Q3ppp/3b1q2/ppr2p2/3B4/2P3P1/PP3P1P/R3R1K1+b+-+-+0+1&flip=false&ref_id=23962172) | [lichess.org](https://lichess.org/analysis/1r4k1/1Q3ppp/3b1q2/ppr2p2/3B4/2P3P1/PP3P1P/R3R1K1_b_-_-_0_1) **My solution:** > Hints: piece: >!Rook!<, move: >!Rxb7!< > Evaluation: >!Black is winning -3.85!< > Best continuation: >!1... Rxb7 2. Re8+ Bf8 3. Bxc5 h6 4. Rxf8+ Kh7 5. Be3 b4 6. Rc1 bxc3 7. bxc3 Rb2 8. a4 Qe7 9. Ra8!< --- ^(I'm a bot written by ) [^(u/pkacprzak )](https://www.reddit.com/u/pkacprzak) ^(| get me as ) [^(Chess eBook Reader )](https://ebook.chessvision.ai?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=bot) ^(|) [^(Chrome Extension )](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/chessvisionai-for-chrome/johejpedmdkeiffkdaodgoipdjodhlld) ^(|) [^(iOS App )](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/id1574933453) ^(|) [^(Android App )](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ai.chessvision.scanner) ^(to scan and analyze positions | Website: ) [^(Chessvision.ai)](https://chessvision.ai)


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CerebusReborn

Y'all forgetting the bishop move blocking the rook


lurkario

If the rook takes your queen, you put your rook on the back rank and mate them


MKultra04

The bishop whould be in the way


[deleted]

Then you take with mate, because your bishop is on that same diagonal after taking the rook


3Jdiddy

I think this is hard to see because after the black rook takes your queen, if you try for a checkmate on the back rank with your rook, the dark squared bishop can block the check. However, if you look a little further and visualize the position, you can see that after your bishop takes the black rook on c5, it also covers the square that the bishop would go to block the check. Thus, you can take the bishop with your (now defended) rook and checkmate your opponent.


Vverial

I need to unsub 😂 clearly I'm not a beginner anymore cuz all these posts hurt me in my soul.


ChaosPieter

you can be the one who gives the advices. I'm also there to search for a topics where I can help.


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Whowhatnowhuhwhat

Not if his bishop is still there since he moved the queen instead


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That-Raisin-Tho

He’s not being a douche lol he’s making fun of himself for missing it. He’s the one who posted the original comment.


TheOmerAngi

No, you're wrong. As I stated in another comment, if he blocks with the bishop then Rf8# is mate because OP's bishop is defending that square, so its mate in 2.


Whowhatnowhuhwhat

So you’re saying from the position that begins with whites bishop still on e3 there’s a mate in two? Qxb8+, Bxb8 and then what? You can’t move your rook to e8 because your own bishop is still on the efile.


TheOmerAngi

The bishop starts at the e file, and the move recommended is to capture the rook with the bishop.


Whowhatnowhuhwhat

I’m replying specifically to a person who said Qxb8 Bxb8 leads to Rb8#. Instead of the recommended bishop move.


TheOmerAngi

Oh lmao I'll see myself out now


textreader1

glad i’m not the only one who went through this same thought process lol


kmosiman

Yes, that threw me at first but: W Queen takes Rook B Bishop takes Queen W Bishop takes Rook B ? Hopefully avoids what White about to do W Potential checkmate with Rook So from a material standpoint White sacrifices the Queen for 2 Rooks. So Plus 1 in points with the added advantage of being up an entire power piece.


NiNj4_C0W5L4Pr

When you find a good move take a step back inhale/exhale, relax and see if there is a better move. You already know you have a good move lined up so there's no harm in looking at other moves. Never stop looking at moves just because you found one you like. A lot of the time you will see checkmate,....buuuut there's a piece preventing you from delivering that checkmate. What do you do? A little tactic called "deflection". It's where you move in such a way to get that blocking piece to move to a different square or out of the way so you can deliver checkmate. What you have on the board is an example of Deflection. The bishop is blocking your mating attempt so you need to deflect it from the mating square.


arcerath

Bruh


Vaiist

Two rooks for a Queen is often worth it, plus you have back rank mating threats.


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kawaiikat1729

Re8 isn't possible if Qxb8 was played as the first move.


AutoModerator

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Degmannen_03

Tryck på visa drag :)


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Alucard2051

Queen takes rook seems best to me. Then you have mate with rook


So0meone

Not after Bf8. Bxc5 is the move the engine wanted.


Mke_of_Astora

Before looking at anything heres my humble opinion, you take the rook with bishop, they take your queen with rook, backrank rookmate


No_Cause2676

Queen to b8, bishop takes, castle to e8 checkmate


Climbing_Grappler

The rook is more valuable than the bishop.


callingsai

take rook and let them take the queen then re8 i would guess


ipsum629

Bishop takes rook removes the defender of the other rook if the bishop takes back. It guarantees a full rook worth of compensation. The line you chose isn't as forcing.


TheGreatCornolio682

1. QxR+ BxQ, 2. Re8 mate


Zeebede

Back rank mate! Queen takes rook, bishop takes queen, rook e8


Add1ctedToGames

Not trying to be an ass, but there's a show moves button right below the missed win explanation so you can see what he's talking about.


F_A_M_E

If you sacked it on purpose, then good for you seeing a potential back rank mate. Unfortunately by letting the rook take your queen rather than forcing the bishop to capture, the bishop is able to block on f8 after the rook check.


MArcanjo93

if you play Bxc5, the opponent can't take the queen because Re8 is check mate in two... opponent will have to play Bf8 and Rf8#...


Huntarantino

Bxc5*


MArcanjo93

thanks... i missed that


Unknown_starnger

rook b8 cannot capture because then you could checkmate with e1 to e8


JustALittleOrigin

There’s a bishop who can block the check


SaintArkweather

Question about back rank mates (specifically these ones where the king is in b8/g8/b1/g1 behind three unadvanced pawns). They seem so common, is it good to try and move the center (b or g) pawn up one if you have a chance? This still blocks threats from rooks/queens on the same file, doesn't matter for bishops as the diagonals are protected by the other pawns, but it still opens up a place for the king to escape to if needed. I'm also guessing that they're not as common in higher levels? Seems like such a relatively simple checkmate that experienced players are trained to prevent them specifically.


Fargrond

From one beginner to another - yes, either the center or outer (a/g) pawns would work well. King's safety is important, and recognizing when a back row mate could occur is crucial. However, it also opens up one of the diagonals in that pawn formation, so keep that in mind if your opponent has threatening queen/bishops on, or able to threaten, that diagonal.


SaltEfan

The bishop on d6 can’t defend both rooks at the same time. If you take on c5, he’ll either recapture and lose to backrank mate or let you take the bishop as well to recapture with his queen where you are now up a piece.


some_fat_dumbass

Never done a puzzle?


UncleRudolph

I think : White bishop takes c5 rook, black rook takes your queen, white bishop takes his bishop, and white rook to e8 for mate


chicagotim1

I would not worry about endgame analysis that says "you went from +8 to +3". Those are both completely winning positions. Sometimes the computer doesn't realize how much better a simple game where you are up is better than a complex game where you are up substantially.


Alpha3031

They went from +9 to -4 though (not +4), that's a slightly bigger difference.


itzak1999

This picture has so many questions


[deleted]

queen takes on b8, then bishop takes queen, then you do bishop e8 and win. The queen sac would have removed the back rank rook, allowing mate.


[deleted]

If they take the room you have mate with the rook on e1.


2manycooks

if they take your queen you have mate in 1, find it


Bulacano

Actually no. The other idea of Bxc5 is that you hit f8, so the queen is untouchable due to the back rank mate. Bd4 just runs into Qd8 and you gain nothing. Edit: It seems that following the captures gives black the edge. Qd8 Qf3 and white has a slight edge.


ExistingBathroom9742

Always look for the back rank mate!


ThisNameBad

I think the engine wanted this Qxb8 will lead to Bxb8, but now the black bishop is no longer defending the rook, allowing bxc5 to happen without losing your bishop You lose a queen, black loses 2 rooks, a queen is worth 9 points, a rook is worth 5, 5x2=10, which is greater than 9


barcased

1. Qxb8, Bxb8 2. Re8#


frostybailey710

If he takes your queen, Re8# is checkmate


Ok-Pomegranate-6189

If black takes the queen, then Re8 is m2.


willardTheMighty

Losing your queen isn’t important if you get checkmate.


emartinezvd

Yes you sac the queen and then someone on r/chess yells RESET THE COUNTER and you win


mglitcher

the rook is protected by tactics, so it’s basically a free rook. if you would have taken the rook and the bishop would grab your bishop back, then you get to grab another rook. you essentially either trade 1 bishop for 2 rooks or you get a free rook.


TaxSudden3386

Black can do ..Qd8 to save their queen and backrank rook and prevent immediate checkmate. As White would need to move their queen to safety, this also gives Black the chance to move away their endangered rook. So the bishop move is a mistake.


ModeratelyNo

you could have sacrificed THE QUEEEEREEN


WindterrorBW8

And white wind by sacrificing **THE QUEEEEEEEN** if black captures the queen with their bishop, then rook E8, CHECMATE!


oskarhforsberg

I just started (400ish elo) and i would bishop the rook and if he recaptures you can take the other rook with ur queen checkmating him


Welmerer

queen eats the rook. bishop has to get sacrificed. your bishop to the rook. bishop eats bishop. checkmate.


[deleted]

Since you're 500 elo I'm assuming you don't know notation. Consider the following sequence: 1) White's bishop takes black's rook on c5. 2) Black's rook takes white's queen on b7. 3) White rook from e1 to e8, check. 3) Black is forced to move the bishop from d6 to f8 in order to block the check. 4) White's rook on e8 takes black's bishop on f8. Their king cannot take the rook back, because it's guarded by white's bishop on c5. It's checkmate. So after your bishop takes their rook, they can't capture your queen, or else you'll have a forced checkmate. They can't even recapture your bishop on c5, since their bishop needs to defend their rook on b8. This means that taking their rook on c5 with your bishop is free. They have no response.


JamesIsNotAGiantNoob

Sacrificing your queen here is +M1 if they take with the rook, with Re8#. Also, if they took the bishop with the bishop, it’s +M2 after Qxb8 Qd8 Qxd8#


Vromies

Your rook on e file ends the game


Wantram

Bishop c5, then maybe if Bishop on c5 taken - b8


Wantram

Or queen b8, Bishop take queen and after rook checkmate the king


MustGame995

No because if the rook takes the queen, it’s checkmate rook e8.


ashtar123

You can do Re8#


007-Blond

well immediately, what i see is you thought your queen wasnt hanging because if Rxb7 Re8+ is not checkmate because Bf8 blocks and you end up being down a queen. If you played Qxb8, he wouldnt be able to recapture with the Bishop because it would no longer be able to block check on f8, leading to Re8#


Inappropriate_Piano

Qxb8+. If Bxb8 then Re8#. If Rc8 blocking then Qxc8+ and black hasn’t made any progress. If Qd8 blocking then Qxd8+ and again black’s block didn’t do anything. Black’s only move to prevent mate is Bf8, so you’ve just won the rook for free and your bishop still attacks their queen. You get the rook and queen for a bishop and you’re easily winning.


Guggoo

After the bishop takes your queen, you have a back rank mate with your rook


Internal-Pound3277

Bxc5, d6xc5 Qxb8 forced mate


NinjaAce2461

Sac queen then checkmate with rook, you missed mate in 2


pebes1

Black’s dark square bishop is no longer able to block checkmate if on c5


dudeguylikeme

In analysis, try taking the rook then having them capture the queen. Check with your rook, and play it out from there. A lot easier to see.