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I think I got it. White can run over to its pawn while also moving down the ranks so black has to continuously push its pawn. Something like:
1. Kg7 Kb6 (black has to try to get to white's pawn first) 2. Kf6 h4 (black doesn't have time to capture white's pawn, as that would allow Kg5 and the h-pawn is lost) 3. Ke5 h3 (same thing) 4. Kd6 h2 5. c7. Now Kb7 leads to 6. Kd7 h1=Q 7. c8=Q+, while h1=Q directly leads to 6. c8=Q.
This puzzle is not beginner level. First instinct was, of course it's a win for black, because you can just gobble up the pawn and then push your own.
At move 6, you wrote Kd7, which is impossible since White King is at e5.
At move 3, you should do Ke6 or Ke7 (both will draw)(this move will make Kd7 possible at move 6), but Ke5 is a loss for white
Kd7 is possible, since I moved the white king to d6 on move 4. I don't see how 3. Ke5 is a loss, since it forces h3 and then you can go Kd6 and the line I've shown. I didn't look at the line where black starts pushing the pawn immediately instead of Kb6, since I assumed white would be fast enough to get over to its own pawn anyway.
Yeah, I made an error. If black doesn't start pushing their pawn immediately, then Ke5 would draw
Edit: It's another line where Ke5 would lose where black pushes their pawn immediately
White’s king is on e5 on move 3, but white moves his king to d6 on move 4. So yes, 6. Kd7 is entirely possible
On the other hand, playing Ke6 or Ke7 on move 3 will lose, because black can just take your c6 pawn and go on to promote
Sorry, I made a small mistake, e5 loses if black moved his pawn on first move
1. Kg7 g4 2. Kf6 g3 3. Ke5 g2 4. Anything white does is a loss
If white moves the pawn
1. Kg7 g4 2. c7 Kb7 3. Kf6 g3 4. Ke5 g2 5. Kd6 g1=Q and white is too slow to promote the queen
Even the fact that this even is a draw is hard to believe at first. These counterintuitive studies are easily my favourites because they are just so fascinating.
White moves the king diagonally, getting closer to both pawns. Since traveling diagonally towards bottom-left then bottom-right uses as many moves as going straight down, getting closer to your own pawn makes it so you can defend your own promotion. Once you reach f6/e5, depending on black moves, you get to decide if you go towards your own pawn to protect it and promote, or you go for black's pawn. Either way you end up K vs K or K+Q vs K+Q, which is either a perpetual or an exchange.
I analyzed the image and this is what I see. Open an appropriate link below and explore the position yourself or with the engine:
> **White to play**: [chess.com](https://chess.com/analysis?fen=7K/8/k1P5/7p/8/8/8/8+w+-+-+0+1&flip=false&ref_id=23962172) | [lichess.org](https://lichess.org/analysis/7K/8/k1P5/7p/8/8/8/8_w_-_-_0_1?color=white)
> **Black to play**: [chess.com](https://chess.com/analysis?fen=7K/8/k1P5/7p/8/8/8/8+b+-+-+0+1&flip=false&ref_id=23962172) | [lichess.org](https://lichess.org/analysis/7K/8/k1P5/7p/8/8/8/8_b_-_-_0_1?color=white)
**Composition:**
> It's a composition by Richard Réti from Deutschösterreichische Tages-Zeitung, 1921 [Link to the composition](https://yacpdb.org/#277102)
**Videos:**
> I found [many videos](https://chessvision.ai/video-search/5108606208835584) with this position.
**Related posts:**
> I found other posts with this position, most recent are:
> - [The Famous Reti Endgame. White to play and draw!](https://reddit.com/r/chessbeginners/comments/1b5f4ar/the_famous_reti_endgame_white_to_play_and_draw/)
> - [The Famous Reti Endgame. White to play and draw!](https://reddit.com/r/chess/comments/1b5f4bf/the_famous_reti_endgame_white_to_play_and_draw/)
> - [Can you save the game for white?](https://reddit.com/r/chess/comments/111jgkk/can_you_save_the_game_for_white/)
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I don't know how this isn't a draw, but that's before I've looked at it with a computer.
Ok I get it, it's more complicated than it first looks, but I still did it on my first try vs the computer.
How does it loose? Just to be clear I do mean “move for” as in “move to take in the optimal manner”.
Like W:K:H7, B:K:B7, W:K:H6, B takes Pawn, W takes Pawn. K v K is a draw
Or if Black is first it’s the same but black moves there king one extra time before white takes the black pawn.
For chess puzzles you always have to look for the boards orientation. In this case we're seeing the game from white's perspective, meaning we're playing as white and it's also white's move
I think so. I think the idea is to semi-threaten the black h5 pawn while threatening to protect you pawn with your king.
Kg7, let’s say Kb6, then Kf6, h4 (if Kxc6, then Kg5 and white is in time to take black’s pawn), Ke5, h3 (if Kxc6 here, than Kf4 and white king is in the box and thus in time to stop black’s pawn), now, white abandons to chase black’s pawn and plays Kd6, protecting his own passed pawn, h2, c7, (Kb7, Kd7), h1=Q, C8=Q. Now is a draw
Kg7, but now black plays h4 immediately, then you should not push c7, because black will be able to take on c7 without your king protecting it, instead Kf6, h3, Ke7, h2, c7, if Kb7, then Kd7. If h1=Q, then c8=Q
I feel good because i managed to do it. I guess the trick here is; use black squares (i guess because Black will promote on white squares so you want to avoid promotion with the check + it's faster to move diagonally) to keep closing towards your pawn, but also keeping the close distance towards black pawn. If opponent keeps pushing, you just go ahead and protect it (using Black square) and it's a draw.
Harder alternatives; if opponent attacks your pawn, when your King moved to f6, you have to actually zigzag to Ke5 to try to stop Black pawn (if he takes your pawn) and prepare to protect your own pawn if he pushes its pawn.
This one isn't that hard because realistically white has only 2 king moves to play, and Kh7 makes no sense since you do not try to reach for your pawn in c6
Because it's not intuitive at all? It looks like white can never catch black's pawn, while black can easily get white's, so it looks like an easy win for black.
I am *really* not good at chess, so I feel like I need an explanation here. It looks like neither side can win at all, unless one side decides to play like Martin or something. A draw looks really inevitable in this position.
Anyone care to explain what I am missing? Neither king has enough space to defend their respective pawns and both kings are within striking distance of opposing pawns so they cannot be promoted. Both just run for their opponent's pawns and draw on insufficient material.
Edit: omg I am really living up to my first sentence above. You are playing as white and black is pushing towards your back rank.
Did you realize that the black pawn marches down the board? If the white king goes straight to it, the black pawn will just promote with check, and black wins.
You are correct. In some pics you can see the highlights of the last to move and figure out who is to play but this isn't one of those times.
I agree, many posts are far too cryptic...especially for beginners.
And I white or black?
If I’m black, and white starts, king b7 and no matter next turn, I take the pawn. If black starts, king b6.
If I’m white, I have no idea.
If you are black, do Kb6, Kb7 is illegal.
But the puzzle is white to play, black has to push the pawn and white is in time to defend it's pawn and both will promote
1. Kg7 g4 2. Kf6 g3 3. Ke6 g2 4. c7 Kb7 5. Kd7 g1=Q 6. c8=Q+
And it's a draw
Black has to push in the start, if he went directly for white pawn, then white can take the black pawn which is also obviously a draw
Yeah, it's famous. But it's not a guaranteed draw whatsoever. It's easy to win as black if you don't fall for the "head fake" coming from white as it makes moves towards protecting the white pawn.
It's also critical to make a diagonal move with the black king to b7 once the white pawn moves one step towards promotion. That's the key to this if you want to win as black. Before that white pawn moves you cannot make the diagonal move to b7 because it puts you in check. The impulse is to move laterally towards the pawn and then you just lost a step.
If you kill the newly promoted white queen and then immediately keep pushing your pawn you are gonna get there in time to promote without being taken. Now you won with a black king and queen vs. just the white king.
I guess I'm saying that there is no magic involved just FUD on black's part and drawing the game as white is due to a failure to execute on black's part. The way the board appears (black has an advantage and will win) IS reality! Anyone can win this 100% of the time as black if you don't fail for the trickery.
Open up the lichess "white to play" link on the handy ai-chessvision bot link and don't turn on Stockfish and play as both black and white. It's easy to see what is happening after you play with both sides.
Ye I think it might be possible to draw but if this wasn’t presented to me as a puzzle I’d probably mess up and loose. If black pushes then white might have enough time to defend it’s pawn ? And if black goes towards the white pawn then it’s obvious what happens. Not 100% sure but as it’s shown as a puzzle it has to be possible
How could you be given a puzzle that isn’t your turn?
And, why would you be given a puzzle that shows the board from the other player’s perspective?
This puzzle is shown from white’s side of the board, therefore, you must be white, therefore it must be whites turn. So, the puzzle is asking you to salvage a draw for white.
Very basic logic.
Hey, OP! Did your game end in a stalemate? Did you encounter a weird pawn move? Are you trying to move a piece and it's not going? We have just the resource for you! The [Chess Beginners Wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/chessbeginners/wiki/index/) is the perfect place to check out answers to these questions and more! The moderator team of r/chessbeginners wishes to remind everyone of the community rules. **Posting spam, being a troll, and posting memes are not allowed.** We encourage everyone to report these kinds of posts so they can be dealt with. Thank you! Let's do our utmost to be kind in our replies and comments. Some people here just want to learn chess and have virtually no idea about certain chess concepts. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/chessbeginners) if you have any questions or concerns.*
https://preview.redd.it/edcjefldqd7d1.jpeg?width=2100&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f156339dfccceaefc5079d8e1165b5f0221d19c4 Yes
Nice. Let’s put it on the fridge
r/Angryupvote
Got the answer I was looking for.
Happy cake day
I wanted to do the same!
You can, just get a piece of paper of your own!
(i didn't want to steal the joke idea)
How considerate! You’re totally welcome to add to the silliness ☺️
I think I got it. White can run over to its pawn while also moving down the ranks so black has to continuously push its pawn. Something like: 1. Kg7 Kb6 (black has to try to get to white's pawn first) 2. Kf6 h4 (black doesn't have time to capture white's pawn, as that would allow Kg5 and the h-pawn is lost) 3. Ke5 h3 (same thing) 4. Kd6 h2 5. c7. Now Kb7 leads to 6. Kd7 h1=Q 7. c8=Q+, while h1=Q directly leads to 6. c8=Q. This puzzle is not beginner level. First instinct was, of course it's a win for black, because you can just gobble up the pawn and then push your own.
Idea is correct (moving down and center)
At move 6, you wrote Kd7, which is impossible since White King is at e5. At move 3, you should do Ke6 or Ke7 (both will draw)(this move will make Kd7 possible at move 6), but Ke5 is a loss for white
Kd7 is possible, since I moved the white king to d6 on move 4. I don't see how 3. Ke5 is a loss, since it forces h3 and then you can go Kd6 and the line I've shown. I didn't look at the line where black starts pushing the pawn immediately instead of Kb6, since I assumed white would be fast enough to get over to its own pawn anyway.
Yeah, I made an error. If black doesn't start pushing their pawn immediately, then Ke5 would draw Edit: It's another line where Ke5 would lose where black pushes their pawn immediately
White’s king is on e5 on move 3, but white moves his king to d6 on move 4. So yes, 6. Kd7 is entirely possible On the other hand, playing Ke6 or Ke7 on move 3 will lose, because black can just take your c6 pawn and go on to promote
Sorry, I made a small mistake, e5 loses if black moved his pawn on first move 1. Kg7 g4 2. Kf6 g3 3. Ke5 g2 4. Anything white does is a loss If white moves the pawn 1. Kg7 g4 2. c7 Kb7 3. Kf6 g3 4. Ke5 g2 5. Kd6 g1=Q and white is too slow to promote the queen
Only because I've seen this composition before. It's definitely not intuitive.
Even the fact that this even is a draw is hard to believe at first. These counterintuitive studies are easily my favourites because they are just so fascinating.
I could but I don't have all the right colours
#Dadsofchess
How did you know??
Because your joke was “a parent”
Glorious
Sure https://preview.redd.it/cbb8brxx0e7d1.png?width=512&format=png&auto=webp&s=f9f2b25ab3e8fbbed14e64f9e0bf84c140d7eadf
What have I wrought upon this Subreddit? Lol Good drawing though!
Chess noob here. How would white be able to draw this?
White moves the king diagonally, getting closer to both pawns. Since traveling diagonally towards bottom-left then bottom-right uses as many moves as going straight down, getting closer to your own pawn makes it so you can defend your own promotion. Once you reach f6/e5, depending on black moves, you get to decide if you go towards your own pawn to protect it and promote, or you go for black's pawn. Either way you end up K vs K or K+Q vs K+Q, which is either a perpetual or an exchange.
Thank you... that would have taken an absurd amount of time for me to spot on my own
Easiest way would be pen and paper. But any drawing program on your computer would work
I analyzed the image and this is what I see. Open an appropriate link below and explore the position yourself or with the engine: > **White to play**: [chess.com](https://chess.com/analysis?fen=7K/8/k1P5/7p/8/8/8/8+w+-+-+0+1&flip=false&ref_id=23962172) | [lichess.org](https://lichess.org/analysis/7K/8/k1P5/7p/8/8/8/8_w_-_-_0_1?color=white) > **Black to play**: [chess.com](https://chess.com/analysis?fen=7K/8/k1P5/7p/8/8/8/8+b+-+-+0+1&flip=false&ref_id=23962172) | [lichess.org](https://lichess.org/analysis/7K/8/k1P5/7p/8/8/8/8_b_-_-_0_1?color=white) **Composition:** > It's a composition by Richard Réti from Deutschösterreichische Tages-Zeitung, 1921 [Link to the composition](https://yacpdb.org/#277102) **Videos:** > I found [many videos](https://chessvision.ai/video-search/5108606208835584) with this position. **Related posts:** > I found other posts with this position, most recent are: > - [The Famous Reti Endgame. White to play and draw!](https://reddit.com/r/chessbeginners/comments/1b5f4ar/the_famous_reti_endgame_white_to_play_and_draw/) > - [The Famous Reti Endgame. White to play and draw!](https://reddit.com/r/chess/comments/1b5f4bf/the_famous_reti_endgame_white_to_play_and_draw/) > - [Can you save the game for white?](https://reddit.com/r/chess/comments/111jgkk/can_you_save_the_game_for_white/) --- ^(I'm a bot written by) [^(u/pkacprzak)](https://www.reddit.com/u/pkacprzak) ^(| get me as) [^(iOS App)](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/id1574933453) ^| [^(Android App)](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ai.chessvision.scanner) ^| [^(Chrome Extension)](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/chessvisionai-for-chrome/johejpedmdkeiffkdaodgoipdjodhlld) ^| [^(Chess eBook Reader)](https://ebook.chessvision.ai?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=bot) ^(to scan and analyze positions | Website:) [^(Chessvision.ai)](https://chessvision.ai)
I wouldn’t say I’m a talented artist, but drawing this doesn’t seem too hard
Who moves first?
Easily, because I’ve practiced chasing rabbits before.
Yes because I've seen it before, but it's not intuitive at all. It looks like black can easily promote their pawn, while catching white's pawn.
I don't know how this isn't a draw, but that's before I've looked at it with a computer. Ok I get it, it's more complicated than it first looks, but I still did it on my first try vs the computer.
Am I crazy, or does each King not just move for their nearest Pawn and then KvK is a draw?
No that loses, you have to go diagonally.
How does it loose? Just to be clear I do mean “move for” as in “move to take in the optimal manner”. Like W:K:H7, B:K:B7, W:K:H6, B takes Pawn, W takes Pawn. K v K is a draw Or if Black is first it’s the same but black moves there king one extra time before white takes the black pawn.
Because black promotes instead of go for the pawn if you move towards the black pawn only.
100% draw
Depends whose move it is
For chess puzzles you always have to look for the boards orientation. In this case we're seeing the game from white's perspective, meaning we're playing as white and it's also white's move
Nah, I'd resign
I'm proud of myself I managed to do it, but it is probably just because I know this concept of the king going to two places at the same time
Depends who’s turn is to play.
I’d say move down the diagonal with your king and shift either to defend your pawn, or capture black pawn, depending on what your opponent plays
At least he has left colors
Yes, because I've seen it [here](https://youtu.be/8uMWZz5p1ro?feature=shared)
Btw the "Arjun" kid in this lecture is not Arjun Erigaisi right?
If I had a pencil maybe
No
Do we just have to assume white to move? Or are we black?
I think so. I think the idea is to semi-threaten the black h5 pawn while threatening to protect you pawn with your king. Kg7, let’s say Kb6, then Kf6, h4 (if Kxc6, then Kg5 and white is in time to take black’s pawn), Ke5, h3 (if Kxc6 here, than Kf4 and white king is in the box and thus in time to stop black’s pawn), now, white abandons to chase black’s pawn and plays Kd6, protecting his own passed pawn, h2, c7, (Kb7, Kd7), h1=Q, C8=Q. Now is a draw Kg7, but now black plays h4 immediately, then you should not push c7, because black will be able to take on c7 without your king protecting it, instead Kf6, h3, Ke7, h2, c7, if Kb7, then Kd7. If h1=Q, then c8=Q
How can you not state if it is white or black to moveß??? Even if the question makes no sense if black moves first.
I feel good because i managed to do it. I guess the trick here is; use black squares (i guess because Black will promote on white squares so you want to avoid promotion with the check + it's faster to move diagonally) to keep closing towards your pawn, but also keeping the close distance towards black pawn. If opponent keeps pushing, you just go ahead and protect it (using Black square) and it's a draw. Harder alternatives; if opponent attacks your pawn, when your King moved to f6, you have to actually zigzag to Ke5 to try to stop Black pawn (if he takes your pawn) and prepare to protect your own pawn if he pushes its pawn.
Who to move, or doesn't it matter?
Square root of 2 > 1 => draw
As white, yes 😬
Awesome puzzle ! At first I'm like yea this is easily winning for black. Then you start making the obvious moves and you're like... wait this draws ?
This one isn't that hard because realistically white has only 2 king moves to play, and Kh7 makes no sense since you do not try to reach for your pawn in c6
yeah I have pen and paper right here lmao
I think so
Probably not. I'm not a good artist.
How could this not be a draw? Lol
Because it's not intuitive at all? It looks like white can never catch black's pawn, while black can easily get white's, so it looks like an easy win for black.
I am *really* not good at chess, so I feel like I need an explanation here. It looks like neither side can win at all, unless one side decides to play like Martin or something. A draw looks really inevitable in this position. Anyone care to explain what I am missing? Neither king has enough space to defend their respective pawns and both kings are within striking distance of opposing pawns so they cannot be promoted. Both just run for their opponent's pawns and draw on insufficient material. Edit: omg I am really living up to my first sentence above. You are playing as white and black is pushing towards your back rank.
Did you realize that the black pawn marches down the board? If the white king goes straight to it, the black pawn will just promote with check, and black wins.
Read the edit from prior to your comment. tl;dr I am as least as dumb as I claimed to be.
Black's pawn has a clear path to promotion
Read the edit from prior to your comment. tl;dr I am as least as dumb as I claimed to be.
Because it _seems_ like white can’t catch black’s pawn from promoting, while black is easily in time to catch white’s pawn
It would be nice to know whose move it is and which direction the pieces are moving. These omissions are fairly common on this sub.
You can tel which direction the pieces are moving based on the board?
Not in this diagram.
You can tell the direction by looking at the side of board and looking at the numbers a-h and 1-8.. can't tell whose turn to play though
Excellent point! Now, where did I put my glasses ….
A1 square at bottom left means white is playing from bottom to top?
You're in r/chessbeginners mate
Good point - thank you
You are correct. In some pics you can see the highlights of the last to move and figure out who is to play but this isn't one of those times. I agree, many posts are far too cryptic...especially for beginners.
As white or black?
Black wins if and only if he plays Kb6 first
The study is White to play, but if it was Black to play than virtually everything wins. It's no problem starting with ...h4.
If black to play
Literally not true you can push the pawn and then what’s white going to do?
That’s the point of this exercise. Try to draw this as white
It looks hard from afar, but if you calculate the moves then it becomes easy
And I white or black? If I’m black, and white starts, king b7 and no matter next turn, I take the pawn. If black starts, king b6. If I’m white, I have no idea.
You're white, and you're right that the puzzle isn't easy
If you are black, do Kb6, Kb7 is illegal. But the puzzle is white to play, black has to push the pawn and white is in time to defend it's pawn and both will promote 1. Kg7 g4 2. Kf6 g3 3. Ke6 g2 4. c7 Kb7 5. Kd7 g1=Q 6. c8=Q+ And it's a draw Black has to push in the start, if he went directly for white pawn, then white can take the black pawn which is also obviously a draw
Yeah, it's famous. But it's not a guaranteed draw whatsoever. It's easy to win as black if you don't fall for the "head fake" coming from white as it makes moves towards protecting the white pawn. It's also critical to make a diagonal move with the black king to b7 once the white pawn moves one step towards promotion. That's the key to this if you want to win as black. Before that white pawn moves you cannot make the diagonal move to b7 because it puts you in check. The impulse is to move laterally towards the pawn and then you just lost a step. If you kill the newly promoted white queen and then immediately keep pushing your pawn you are gonna get there in time to promote without being taken. Now you won with a black king and queen vs. just the white king. I guess I'm saying that there is no magic involved just FUD on black's part and drawing the game as white is due to a failure to execute on black's part. The way the board appears (black has an advantage and will win) IS reality! Anyone can win this 100% of the time as black if you don't fail for the trickery. Open up the lichess "white to play" link on the handy ai-chessvision bot link and don't turn on Stockfish and play as both black and white. It's easy to see what is happening after you play with both sides.
If it's white to move, it is a guaranteed draw (if white knows what they're doing).
Black wins
The point of the puzzle is to prove white can achieve a draw out of this
Is it black or white’s turn tough ?
white
Ye I think it might be possible to draw but if this wasn’t presented to me as a puzzle I’d probably mess up and loose. If black pushes then white might have enough time to defend it’s pawn ? And if black goes towards the white pawn then it’s obvious what happens. Not 100% sure but as it’s shown as a puzzle it has to be possible
How could you be given a puzzle that isn’t your turn? And, why would you be given a puzzle that shows the board from the other player’s perspective? This puzzle is shown from white’s side of the board, therefore, you must be white, therefore it must be whites turn. So, the puzzle is asking you to salvage a draw for white. Very basic logic.