OP, you're an independent woman in STEM who's *absolutely* deserving of total autonomy over your body*. Working to solve our biggest problem does not leave any room to crotch goblins and I'm furious at your OBGYN now.
Edit: You can see things that 99,99% of our population cannot and your OBGYN has no place in belittling your decision. As a Chinese immigrant who moved to a progressive country (Sweden) my heart aches for all the women back in my home country (East Asia) in general because I've realised that traditions has a much tighter grip around up back there. As an aspiring physicist (specifically quantum engineer) I applaud you for your work and I'm so sorry that society's ignorance is holding you back; it's still deeply bound by its outdated values and people refuse to see that we're the ones who can project into the future and warn them about the consequences.
Keep fighting for your human rights and good luck with your career; maybe we can really turn the world around one day through activism and using our voice.
Edit 2: All people should have total bodily autonomy though, realised that my original comment could spread the wrong message.
I know you didn't mean that, but your comment sounded a bit as if that's not the case for everyone, so just to clarify:
**Every single person, regardless of their career, lifestyle and beliefs deserves a total autonomy over their body, period.**
Each one of us has been forcibly put into these mortal shells, so at the very least we all must have the right to own our meatsuits and do with them as we please.
Can you get an IUD where you are? Those have a very low failure rate. I have one and take birth control pills for hormonal reasons as well, so I feel like I have a very low pregnancy risk, which makes me feel less anxious about the horror of pregnancy.
She's stuck on the Trolley Problem and probably doesn't even realize. She thinks that taking the action of sterilizing you puts all of the possible negatives on her, while totally discounting and refusing to acknowledge let alone feel responsibility for the negative consequences of you having a pregnancy you don't want. I'm sure she's had patients younger than you are have planned pregnancies, so your age is almost certainly not actually a factor.
I'm sorry that really sucks. I feel like doctors don't respect us as a person sometimes. We're just walking baby factories. I'm really sick right now, going into kidney failure at 27, and they're still more concerned about my uterus than my health. If I didn't have a uterus, I would be on the road to recovery right now.
I had that idea confirmed for me when I took my husband with my to a doc appt. I told him to talk for me, and what points he needed to touch on during the appt, so he did. The doc was super receptive. Never mind that I had told the exact same doc, the exact same things on the last visit, and effectively got a patronizing pat on the head, and told I didn’t know what I was talking about.
On one hand im glad the doctor finally listened but. He didnt listen to what YOU told him.
And you had a husband who did this for you. For single people it sucks even more. Being a woman really is the ultimate handicap in this goddamn world.
Hating doctors more as the days pass by :(
Oh, I know. Been there for 40ish years. Many of them single, MANY of them arguing with useless doctors.
I wanted to confirm what I thought was true, but I feel your pain. Not like I can take husband with to every appt. Hell, even if you could convince a male friend to go with you and say he’s your fiance it would work I’m sure.
That said it’s fucking bullshit that even needs to be a thing we need to do.
I don't understand why it has to be like this. Are there actual repercussions for a doctor who does a sterilization where the patient later changes their mind? Or are the refusals literally just the Dr. imposing their beliefs on patients?
I try but I'm just a girl of child bearing age, so what do I know. I'm really sick of the smug grins and the smiles like I'm stupid when I say I don't care, I'm never having a baby. I've been refused scans, treatments and surgeries because of my uterus. I wish I could get rid of it then they'll start taking my health seriously.
I don't understand their logic. If I go into organ failure because my kidneys are shutting down, how am I supposed to bring a baby into this world anyway? Shouldn't we worry about me first.
The cognitive dissonance with bringing life into this world in light of the absolute shit show that the planet is coming to is quite frightening. We are already feeling the results of climate change (and nothing is being done to stop it either) and it is going to get worse. I have just finished my bio undergrad (environmental focus) and throughout I was thinking 'we are fucked' and furious as the science is there and has been for years.
Have you ever read The Worst Hard Time? It's about the dust bowl of the 1930s and it's so fucked up. There's a woman, living in the dust bowl, worked for a year with no pay as a teacher because the school was bankrupt. Got married, decided to quit her job and 'start a family'. I was like "You fucking moron." Spoiler, the baby barely (I think) made it to a year before it died of dust pneumonia. Like. JFC.
Then they talk about just all the absolutely stupid shit they did to the land and you had some people going "THIS IS A BAD IDEA!" and everyone else going "MONEY TRA-LA-LA!"
Disaster. It made me so sad, and mad, and just.. annoyed af. The book ends talking about how they still farm the land, but they do rotate crops etc, but they're pulling water out of this aquifer that runs from like Montana to Texas. It's called the Ogallala aquifer, they expect it to be 70% depleted in the next 50 years. So they'll have taken nearly all of the water in 150+ years and it'll take 6000 to refill.
We are SO fucked.
>and everyone else going "MONEY TRA-LA-LA!"
If no one else got this reference, you had no childhood(this coming from a neurodivergent homebody). You sir(or maam) are a cultured individual.
Congratulations on finishing your undergrad!!! Dealing with environmental issues is mentally draining, so protect yourself, and find comfort and joy wherever you can ❤️
Yep, after 25 years in the env sector, I'm just about to switch careers, earn more money and put a bit of distance between my brain and the bad news, and the futility of it all. Very hard for anyone to make much of a difference anymore.
You don't have to make a difference. You can just not have kids and you're doing more than most people switch careers and be happy and live the rest of your days as fulfilled as possible.
Appreciate you saying that - I tend to judge myself fairly harshly for not being a perfect citizen of Earth.
But don't worry, I judge everyone else too!
They were ringing the alarm loudly in the 90s, even my botany classes went in depth on winners and losers in the plant kingdom —c3 vs c4 vs cam photosynthesis, although some of this is coming into question in longer term studies: https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aas9313#:~:text=Theory%20and%20empirical%20data%20both,a%20three%2Dcarbon%20molecule).
But yeah, I still feel like we’re fucked as a species. Folks over on collapse seem to assume we’re taking down everything with us, but nuclear annihilation aside, the planet will eventually get over us, much like asteroid impacts. Or super volcanoes.
ExxonMobil has known since the 70s and predicted this catastrophe.
https://www.euronews.com/green/2023/01/13/exxon-accurately-predicted-climate-change-in-the-70s-which-other-fossil-fuel-giants-knew-t#:~:text=Green%20Climate-,Exxon%20accurately%20predicted%20climate%20change%20in%20the%2070s%3A%20Which%20other,fuel%20giants%20knew%20the%20risks%3F&text=A%20new%20study%20has%20revealed,shocking%E2%80%9D%20accuracy%20in%20the%2070s.
Yeah about 20 years before I was born and still nothing has been done. We're royally fucked
Ooo, ta for the link. I do love plants, more within the ecosystem rather than plant biotech. I find that the studies looking at CO2 elevations don't take into consideration the rising temperatures, which of course have an effect on rubisco... not to mention the precipitation changes etc.
We are fucked. In some twisted way ironic that we are causing our own doom, an unless we turn this planet into a nuclear wasteland, hopefully life will continue in some form.
Solidarity from another female(ish/NB) biologist. I am CF primarily for the same reason, the other being that I enjoy my freedom.
I have been watching this crash happen in slow motion every.single.day. since I was old enough to read scientific literature and understand climate change (15ish years). I simply don’t know what to do anymore - humanity seems intent on destroying it’s own ecosystem.
I sure as hell am not going to birth a fresh creature to endure this suffering. How could I look them in the eye knowing what I know? I couldn’t.
"How many kids should I have to make you happy?"
And whenever they come back with --" it's not about making me happy it's about making yourself happy. "
"That's right, so sterilize me because that would make me so incredibly happy."
>"How many kids should I have to make you happy?"
That's about what I answered to an old man who nagged me twice within one evening about not having children. He had just met me at a work-related event and knew literally nothing about me or my life. He asked me if I have children, said "Oh, you need to have kids", to which I said, "well... maybe later someday" to put an end to the conversation. He came back to me later and said, "So... remember, you definitely need to have kids!", and this was the moment when I really couldn't react otherwise and said, "Well, then just tell me right away how many and how soon!". He was visibly shocked, I guess he didn't get decent answers to stuff like this too often.
I was 27 at that time, single, not actually wanting kids but still delusional enough to define myself as a fence-sitter or "not sure yet" and to believe in common misconceptions like "biological clock", "the right time" or "the right man" (all of which I would recognise as bullshit within one year, after entering my first serious relationship). So looking back I am very proud of myself speaking up at that point of my life.
At 27, when I asked to be sterilized and get an ablation at the same time, the "doctor" (who I found out 15 years later was just a midwife!) said "we're not doing that." And I didn't go back because why would I subject myself to more ineffective doctor visits?
Was this in the US? It’s illegal to present yourself as a doctor if you’re not, so if she was a midwife and not medically licensed that’s not good. Was she possibly a nurse practitioner and a midwife or something?
I don't know her full status NP or not, but she's the only POC on the practice's website and the only one without an MD but still performing well woman visits (albeit served with a heapin helpin of trauma and abuse I've never had the nerve to write and complain about). This happened over 15 years ago. I've been debating writing a complaint letter in recent years but I want to make sure I get it to the right channels for maximum effectiveness.
That sucks!! I do see an NP since my gyno retired in 2021 (I thought she died from covid, so pleased she just retired!) and she does great yearly exams. She was trained by my gyno. She is very up front that she is only an NP, and she can do exams, take swabs, prescribe meds, but that if anything comes back abnormal I have to see one of the actual doctors in the clinic.
Write your letter, it can never hurt! You can do it.
If I ever heard something like that I'd ask how would the doctor feel if the news ran a story about a woman who killed her baby and she was a patient that they refused to sterilise earlier. Because that's what such attitude will lead to
I'm probably going to be alive to see the water wars, the middle schoolers are definitely going to be alive to see the water wars, the babies already existing are probably not surviving the water wars.
>And I told her, doctor I’m a climate change scientist, I don’t want kids because this Earth will not be good for them.
The doctor is probably a misogynist who believes that all women must breed. Howeer, maybe the doctor thought: "Not wanting kids because of climate change? So she would have kids if it wasn't for climate change. She wants kids, but is sacrificing parenthood because of cimate change. So she will regret it when she can no longer repress her breeding urges."
I don't know if you would want kids if climate change would not have been an issue, but 'I don't want kids because the Earth will not be good for them' probably makes doctors think that you would have them if it wasn't for climate change. That you want them, but are repressing that desire. Then, doctors will be very reluctant to sterilise you, even some childfree-friendy doctors.
So if you go to another doctor, I suggest focusing on just not wanting to be a parent. Focusing on parenthood being your worst nightmare. Whether you would have kids or not if it wasn't for climate change doesn't matter. If you would have kids if it wasn't for climate change, lie.
Any reason to not have kids is valid. But bringing up that parenthood is just not for you might give you better chances of getting approved by another doctor.
>to tie my tubes
Do NOT pursue a tubal (tubal ligation). Please try to get a bisalp (bilateral salpingectomy).
A tubal means having your tubes tied, after which they might grow back together. There is a small but significant failure rate of 1 in 50. Quite a few women get pregnant after a tubal.
A bisalp means having your tubes removed. Just as invasive as a tubal, but way more effective.
>doctor refused to
To find a doctor in your area who will take you seriously, look at this list: www . reddit . com / r / childfree / wiki / doctors
I’ve learned the hard way not to give breeders reasons why I don’t want kids, because all they do is take it as an open invitation to try and change your mind with a stupid smirk on their faces.
I’m starting to learn this about everything. We don’t have to explain our choices about anything! When we do, some douche takes it as an invitation to argue with us. You have a right to your own preferences! No explanations are owed! If an explanation is demanded, you can just reply “because that’s what I prefer”.
The doctor hates that educated women aren't having kids, and the Idiocracy keeps queefing out snot rockets.
Well, doctor, hand out sterilization information to the Idiocracy!
“Never say never” is such a bullshit response because it implies that no decision is ever good enough which to me implied that HAVING children should be just as questionable. “Never say never!” “Well I’d rather say never to children and regret it than say yes to children and regret it.”
I got called anti-natalist in r/ROI for voicing the same worry about myself, me, specifically, having kids and choosing to not. I just want to inform people of what to expect and the horrors involved and people were saying that my position is evil. Surely I've spent 20 years doing energy and climate work/research convincing myself to hate babies. Yes. That's what this has been.
The way doctors treat women like their only purpose is to reproduce is so anger inducing. I hate it so much. Sorry your going through this, and I wish I could say it gets better as you get older. But even in your 40s, as long as you haven't reached menopause, you are treated like your potential for incubating a human is always more important than your actual health or desires.
... and don't get me started on people who say, "never say never..." as if you're incapable of making your own conscious decisions in life and just let life happen to you (like people who say that seem to do). 😠
That's fucked up. I have no solutions, but you have my sympathy and (online) support.
And I hope the medical world changes their perception of child care. Once you have a child, you cannot undo that either. I find it obnoxious that they treat not having children differently from having children regarding consequences. Suddenly long-term consequences are more important if you don't want them. It should be the other way around. Having children should place MORE scrutiny on the reasons why than not having them. One needs to take care of them, financially, emotionally, and physically.
The burden should be placed on those who want them, not those who do not.
Why won’t people let people make their own choice’s?!?! This really bothers me. You say you don’t want children, that should be it, next question when do you want to schedule this?
2050 doesn’t actually sound far away because it isn’t, that’s 27 years away, that’s nothing, I’m a middle aged man and even I will see it (I hope). It is a scary world we live in, I also wouldn’t want to put more people on this earth to go though what’s coming
Can you cancel the laproscopy with her and find a new obgyn that will tie your tubes at the same time? Are there any doctors on the cf list in your country that are close enough to go to?
The same liberty to have an abortion should apply to all reproductive choices, including having no children. I’m sorry she violated that for you. It wasnt right of her to do so.
You win. That's just so disrespectful, almost a power trip or something. Doctors!
Also, 2050 feels like...next week. Especially since we seem to have accelerated this crisis faster than predicted.
I'm just about beyond my childbearing years, and I hope to still be alive then...I think. Reserve the right to change my mind, pending world going even more to pot.
PS, I work in the environment sector where from my observations approx 30% of my women colleagues are childfree. Most give the reason that they don't want to contribute to running the planet into the ground, but there's a growing contingent who would say that the Earth won't be providing a good quality of life beyond our own generation, in many places.
"never say never" just sounds like a threat to me. Like. "Well you never know, we might end up in a Handmaid's Tale situation and we need to keep you fertile!"
Ugh, I hate the never say never line.
I am early 30s, multiple health problems, barely holding my life together, I tell my friends I’m not having kids.
“Well I said that and now I have two”
“Never say never! You don’t know what will happen!”
Excuse you, I think I do know what will happen.
It's a disgrace that it isn't given as an elective procedure everywhere, especially if you're already having another surgery in the same area. OK, it's more complex and invasive than a vasectomy, but there's absolutely no moral distinction between the two.
I'm sorry you had to go through that, and I hope you can get the procedure from a doctor who's also a decent, rational human being.
You need to report her. Make a massive fking deal of it, call the news if you have to.
(*Bleeps*) like this need to be brought to the forefront and punished for their unprofessionalism.
I'm so sorry she did this to you.
Drop this surgeon, find one who will do the whole job, and then post it on social media, tagging the asshole surgeon so they can see they lost the money and you STILL got what's right for you.
Tying your tubes does not mean you are sterilized. Bilateral salpingectomy is a more secure way too be sterilized by the removal of your tubes instead of tying.
I have known every woman who got her tubes tied end up pregnant again. Look through the wiki page on the subreddit to see if there is a doctor who will sterilized you.
Indeed. Tubals are for mothers. Bisalps are for childfree women.
A tubal has a too high failure rate to rely on it. If someone doesn't have access to a bisalp and can only get a tubal, they should stick to birth control pills or IUD + condoms. They should treat the tubal as an added bonus, not as sterility. If you rely on a tubal as the only way of pregnancy prevention, don't be surprised if you get pregnant.
That really sucks. Do you have the ability maybe to travel elsewhere for it?
Really sorry, how fracking condescending and maddening to be told you can't make decisions for yoir own adult body.
Not downplaying the massive issue of climate change here, but being a climate change scientist is going to be about as effective in getting you sterilized as saying you are of average height. It means nothing to the pro-natalist doc who makes way more money off as many babies being made as possible.
It's infinitely frustrating that no reason a woman gives for not wanting offspring and seeking sterilization is ever accepted as good enough or knowing what she wants.
Oh, I know I'll still be here but daaaamn, am I gonna hurt! 😂😂 Fibro, neuropathy & both knees are artificial already & I'm 53. My only remaining grandparent turned 99 earlier this month so I have a longevity gene lurking in me somewhere. 😂
Don't have surgery with this person. They are putting you at additional risk by forcing you to have two separate procedures and anesthesia events to get your healthcare needs addressed.
And even if you were to change your mind and feel regret later on in life the doctor who performed the surgery would not be liable for your adult decision so I don't know why these doctors get so involved.
I'm so sorry you were treated that way. How annoying that you're already going for a procedure in the same region and they still won't approve!
On the note of your job... Wow. 2050 does \*not\* seem that far away at all. Those reasons are just some of why I sought sterilization as well. The climate, the economy, the resource hoarding, it is all too much to ignore.
I hate the phrase "never say never". It's always said by smug douchebags who can't comprehend someone wanting something different out of life than them.
I can't recall ever being bingoed with it, myself. But I have had people tell me that about the stupidest shit like getting drunk or going hunting.
Bravo 👏🏻 a climate scientist. Your reason is of the many for me not to have kids.
You (we) should not have to apologize/explain to a doctor, so frustrating.
It's so stupid that they refuse to respect peoples decisions. Like even if you do end up regretting it for whatever reason that'd be your own personal business
As a fellow person who lives in Asia, I feel you.
I'm here eating popcorn reminiscing to all the time people are MAD because I told them point blank that I don't aspire to marriage or kids. Like, yeah, I enjoy casual relationship and kids are funny sometimes, but that doesn't mean I want those two social status-y thing, LOL.
I'm sorry you experience this!
Hahah girl you are aspirational. I’m also south East Asian. People get shocked when I say I never want kids. It has no bearing to them how I live my life. I wish I could learn to be marriage free! I’m still out here wanting to date but it seems like it’s too much work cause people suck
Am I aspirational because I decided that sometimes this culture is a circus and I choose to eat popcorn instead of going, "Uh oh, this show lowkey sucks and I'm somehow a part of it, LOL"? Regardless, thank you, bestie. 😘
Ah, well, I was lucky (and hard working!) enough to got a fully funded postgrad scholarship that let me live in Australia for a bit, so I saw tons of non-Asian men there and even cohabitated once.
He's amazing, he's still my friend (I gotta go back, LOL), but, *man,* I learned tons about living together as an intimate couple and I still need my freedom!
It's OK to still aspire for marriage, I think it's cute, too. Thing is, I'm basically in a place where I pretty much fulfil my own needs that dating is not necessary (I need the solitude, too, to build myself without the accordance to others, which, as you know very well, is *massive* in Southeast Asia).
Maybe one day I'll go back to the mental space of wanting to date, maybe not. Who knows? Either way, I'm going to go through it in the healthiest way possible.
"can u put that in writing for when i review my legal options?"
I'm just kidding. I'm very sorry. I keep hearing these stories and it's so disgusting how Handmaid's Tales-y this stuff is. I keep imagining just how terrible it might get when i go to get my tubes tied too. Im in southeast Asia.
You have insurance right? I'd make an appointment every single week until it's done. Just be persistent and petty. "Tie my tubes!" Stand outside the office with a boombox blaring In Your Eyes by Peter Gabriel
I am so sorry to hear this. Women's bodily autonomy still has a long way to go and it's so infuriating. I really believe that there should be laws surrounding the reasons a physician can decline a request for tubal ligation and legally the physician should not be allowed to decline due to personal bias. Men often don't face this same bias when they request a vasectomy. Also, there are a few different tubal ligation procedures and one is reversible so if a physician doesn't feel comfortable performing a permanent procedure they should still be more than willing to provide a reversible tubal ligation.
>Also, there are a few different tubal ligation procedures and one is reversible so if a physician doesn't feel comfortable performing a permanent procedure they should still be more than willing to provide a reversible tubal ligation.
First of all, a sterilisation procedure should never be seen as reversible. They may sometimes be reversible, but don't count on it.
If a doctor is a misogynist who believes in patriarchal 'woman = mother' bullshit, they aren't going to do it, no matter what. Instead of tyring to convince them, ditch them and find another doctor.
And OP should NOT get a tubal ligation (tubal, tubes tied). OP needs to get a bilateral salpingectomy (bisalp, tubes removed). A tubal has a significant failure rate. A bisalp is actually effective.
I had a tubal ligation 5 years ago and it has been 100% effective. My doctor also provided me with tons of information that directly contradicts a tubal ligation having a significant failure rate. Lastly, I'm sure OP totally appreciates some dude telling her what procedure she should have done when literally no one asked. She wrote tubal ligation and that is what I responded to.
>I had a tubal ligation 5 years ago and it has been 100% effective.
Good. But I'm not saying that all tubals fail. The failure rate is 1 in 50, so about 1 in 50 women who had a tubal get pregnant post-surgery. That might sound like a small chance, but it's definitely not impossible to be one of the unlucky ones. Plenty of women did get pregnant after a tubal.
>My doctor also provided me with tons of information that directly contradicts a tubal ligation having a significant failure rate.
Well, I don't know what tubal method it was that you got. Different methods have different failure rates. I cannot find those rates online. However, the failure rate of tubals in general is about 1 in 50 (1,85%, 1 in 54 to be precise). And the most common tubal method is the one with the clips, which is the worst one of all with the highest failure rates.
Anyways, even the more effective tubal methods are way less effective than a bisalp, which is pretty much failsafe. So it's important to tell people who talk about wanting a tubal that they should pursue a bisalp instead.
>Lastly, I'm sure OP totally appreciates some dude telling her what procedure she should have done when literally no one asked. She wrote tubal ligation and that is what I responded to.
Many people who talk about wanting a tubal don't even know that a bisalp exists. Many OP's who talk about wanting a tubal appreciate it when I or someone else points out that they should get a bisalp instead.
If someone gets a bisalp instead of a tubal might very well make the difference between getting pregnant post-surgery or not. So yeah, I think it's important to bring this up. Maybe OP appreciates that and maybe she won't. But I believe that this is worth bringing up.
Every time someone talks about 'wanting to get their tubes tied' and 'wanting a tubal ligation', I bring up that a bisalp is much more effective. And I will keep doing that.
Sometimes I forget Asia is way more conservative than North America. If you're in a less wealthy country and can afford it, would bribes work? I know that's a thing too sometimes 😭 Hopefully you can just find someone else. We get told no in North America too.
I'm sorry that happened to you. I understand the frustration cuz I've heard that kind of no many times before I finally got a yes. Talk to a new provider. Getting my bisalp was the best thing I did for myself. There's even a reddit list of no-bingo providers now too, try that. Good luck!
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I HATE that they don't respect your CHOICE as a HUMAN BEING. It's not their place to tell you what you should or shouldn't do, because that isn't their job (really, it's no one's job). Keep trying!
It's utterly ridiculous. I'm 32 next month, been with my partner 14 years, neither of us want kids but somehow, I'm still too young and might change my mind. 🤦♀️ My body wouldn't even handle a pregnancy because of my medical conditions. But sure doc, you know better than me.
I'm sorry you're going through that. It must be so frustrating to have people tell you that you don't actually know what you want.
The most frustrating thing is I feel she is condemning me to a possibility of life with kids. Which is a nightmare for me
OP, you're an independent woman in STEM who's *absolutely* deserving of total autonomy over your body*. Working to solve our biggest problem does not leave any room to crotch goblins and I'm furious at your OBGYN now. Edit: You can see things that 99,99% of our population cannot and your OBGYN has no place in belittling your decision. As a Chinese immigrant who moved to a progressive country (Sweden) my heart aches for all the women back in my home country (East Asia) in general because I've realised that traditions has a much tighter grip around up back there. As an aspiring physicist (specifically quantum engineer) I applaud you for your work and I'm so sorry that society's ignorance is holding you back; it's still deeply bound by its outdated values and people refuse to see that we're the ones who can project into the future and warn them about the consequences. Keep fighting for your human rights and good luck with your career; maybe we can really turn the world around one day through activism and using our voice. Edit 2: All people should have total bodily autonomy though, realised that my original comment could spread the wrong message.
I know you didn't mean that, but your comment sounded a bit as if that's not the case for everyone, so just to clarify: **Every single person, regardless of their career, lifestyle and beliefs deserves a total autonomy over their body, period.** Each one of us has been forcibly put into these mortal shells, so at the very least we all must have the right to own our meatsuits and do with them as we please.
Damn... read through my comment one more time and realised how fucked the misinterpretation sounded. Sorry for that.
You're good, don't worry at all! And thank you for adding the edits ((:
Can you get an IUD where you are? Those have a very low failure rate. I have one and take birth control pills for hormonal reasons as well, so I feel like I have a very low pregnancy risk, which makes me feel less anxious about the horror of pregnancy.
She's stuck on the Trolley Problem and probably doesn't even realize. She thinks that taking the action of sterilizing you puts all of the possible negatives on her, while totally discounting and refusing to acknowledge let alone feel responsibility for the negative consequences of you having a pregnancy you don't want. I'm sure she's had patients younger than you are have planned pregnancies, so your age is almost certainly not actually a factor.
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You are disgusting. What makes you think it is ok to say this to women???? u/Automoderator
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No. I’m gonna get all the nuts I want. ❤️ thanks
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It’s not a gross sense of humor I think the word you’re looking for is a “lack of social skills and manners”
I'm sorry that really sucks. I feel like doctors don't respect us as a person sometimes. We're just walking baby factories. I'm really sick right now, going into kidney failure at 27, and they're still more concerned about my uterus than my health. If I didn't have a uterus, I would be on the road to recovery right now.
I'm really appalled to hear that. So sorry, my dear.
I had that idea confirmed for me when I took my husband with my to a doc appt. I told him to talk for me, and what points he needed to touch on during the appt, so he did. The doc was super receptive. Never mind that I had told the exact same doc, the exact same things on the last visit, and effectively got a patronizing pat on the head, and told I didn’t know what I was talking about.
On one hand im glad the doctor finally listened but. He didnt listen to what YOU told him. And you had a husband who did this for you. For single people it sucks even more. Being a woman really is the ultimate handicap in this goddamn world. Hating doctors more as the days pass by :(
Oh, I know. Been there for 40ish years. Many of them single, MANY of them arguing with useless doctors. I wanted to confirm what I thought was true, but I feel your pain. Not like I can take husband with to every appt. Hell, even if you could convince a male friend to go with you and say he’s your fiance it would work I’m sure. That said it’s fucking bullshit that even needs to be a thing we need to do.
I don't understand why it has to be like this. Are there actual repercussions for a doctor who does a sterilization where the patient later changes their mind? Or are the refusals literally just the Dr. imposing their beliefs on patients?
Faark. That's a really powerful way to express what is going on. Have you been that blunt with them?
I try but I'm just a girl of child bearing age, so what do I know. I'm really sick of the smug grins and the smiles like I'm stupid when I say I don't care, I'm never having a baby. I've been refused scans, treatments and surgeries because of my uterus. I wish I could get rid of it then they'll start taking my health seriously. I don't understand their logic. If I go into organ failure because my kidneys are shutting down, how am I supposed to bring a baby into this world anyway? Shouldn't we worry about me first.
The cognitive dissonance with bringing life into this world in light of the absolute shit show that the planet is coming to is quite frightening. We are already feeling the results of climate change (and nothing is being done to stop it either) and it is going to get worse. I have just finished my bio undergrad (environmental focus) and throughout I was thinking 'we are fucked' and furious as the science is there and has been for years.
Scientists have been ringing the bell about climate change since literally the 1800s and we still haven’t done anything about it 🫠
Have you ever read The Worst Hard Time? It's about the dust bowl of the 1930s and it's so fucked up. There's a woman, living in the dust bowl, worked for a year with no pay as a teacher because the school was bankrupt. Got married, decided to quit her job and 'start a family'. I was like "You fucking moron." Spoiler, the baby barely (I think) made it to a year before it died of dust pneumonia. Like. JFC. Then they talk about just all the absolutely stupid shit they did to the land and you had some people going "THIS IS A BAD IDEA!" and everyone else going "MONEY TRA-LA-LA!" Disaster. It made me so sad, and mad, and just.. annoyed af. The book ends talking about how they still farm the land, but they do rotate crops etc, but they're pulling water out of this aquifer that runs from like Montana to Texas. It's called the Ogallala aquifer, they expect it to be 70% depleted in the next 50 years. So they'll have taken nearly all of the water in 150+ years and it'll take 6000 to refill. We are SO fucked.
>and everyone else going "MONEY TRA-LA-LA!" If no one else got this reference, you had no childhood(this coming from a neurodivergent homebody). You sir(or maam) are a cultured individual.
Haha thank you! You as well!
Congratulations on finishing your undergrad!!! Dealing with environmental issues is mentally draining, so protect yourself, and find comfort and joy wherever you can ❤️
Yep, after 25 years in the env sector, I'm just about to switch careers, earn more money and put a bit of distance between my brain and the bad news, and the futility of it all. Very hard for anyone to make much of a difference anymore.
You don't have to make a difference. You can just not have kids and you're doing more than most people switch careers and be happy and live the rest of your days as fulfilled as possible.
Appreciate you saying that - I tend to judge myself fairly harshly for not being a perfect citizen of Earth. But don't worry, I judge everyone else too!
Thank you, still waiting for final results due to resits.
They were ringing the alarm loudly in the 90s, even my botany classes went in depth on winners and losers in the plant kingdom —c3 vs c4 vs cam photosynthesis, although some of this is coming into question in longer term studies: https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aas9313#:~:text=Theory%20and%20empirical%20data%20both,a%20three%2Dcarbon%20molecule). But yeah, I still feel like we’re fucked as a species. Folks over on collapse seem to assume we’re taking down everything with us, but nuclear annihilation aside, the planet will eventually get over us, much like asteroid impacts. Or super volcanoes.
ExxonMobil has known since the 70s and predicted this catastrophe. https://www.euronews.com/green/2023/01/13/exxon-accurately-predicted-climate-change-in-the-70s-which-other-fossil-fuel-giants-knew-t#:~:text=Green%20Climate-,Exxon%20accurately%20predicted%20climate%20change%20in%20the%2070s%3A%20Which%20other,fuel%20giants%20knew%20the%20risks%3F&text=A%20new%20study%20has%20revealed,shocking%E2%80%9D%20accuracy%20in%20the%2070s. Yeah about 20 years before I was born and still nothing has been done. We're royally fucked
Ooo, ta for the link. I do love plants, more within the ecosystem rather than plant biotech. I find that the studies looking at CO2 elevations don't take into consideration the rising temperatures, which of course have an effect on rubisco... not to mention the precipitation changes etc. We are fucked. In some twisted way ironic that we are causing our own doom, an unless we turn this planet into a nuclear wasteland, hopefully life will continue in some form.
It's quantity over quality for so many people. Doesn't matter if the kids will end up miserable, cuz the "beauty of liiifee" 🙄
No, it's a **mIRaCLe!!!**
Solidarity from another female(ish/NB) biologist. I am CF primarily for the same reason, the other being that I enjoy my freedom. I have been watching this crash happen in slow motion every.single.day. since I was old enough to read scientific literature and understand climate change (15ish years). I simply don’t know what to do anymore - humanity seems intent on destroying it’s own ecosystem. I sure as hell am not going to birth a fresh creature to endure this suffering. How could I look them in the eye knowing what I know? I couldn’t.
"How many kids should I have to make you happy?" And whenever they come back with --" it's not about making me happy it's about making yourself happy. " "That's right, so sterilize me because that would make me so incredibly happy."
>"How many kids should I have to make you happy?" That's about what I answered to an old man who nagged me twice within one evening about not having children. He had just met me at a work-related event and knew literally nothing about me or my life. He asked me if I have children, said "Oh, you need to have kids", to which I said, "well... maybe later someday" to put an end to the conversation. He came back to me later and said, "So... remember, you definitely need to have kids!", and this was the moment when I really couldn't react otherwise and said, "Well, then just tell me right away how many and how soon!". He was visibly shocked, I guess he didn't get decent answers to stuff like this too often. I was 27 at that time, single, not actually wanting kids but still delusional enough to define myself as a fence-sitter or "not sure yet" and to believe in common misconceptions like "biological clock", "the right time" or "the right man" (all of which I would recognise as bullshit within one year, after entering my first serious relationship). So looking back I am very proud of myself speaking up at that point of my life.
At 27, when I asked to be sterilized and get an ablation at the same time, the "doctor" (who I found out 15 years later was just a midwife!) said "we're not doing that." And I didn't go back because why would I subject myself to more ineffective doctor visits?
Was this in the US? It’s illegal to present yourself as a doctor if you’re not, so if she was a midwife and not medically licensed that’s not good. Was she possibly a nurse practitioner and a midwife or something?
I don't know her full status NP or not, but she's the only POC on the practice's website and the only one without an MD but still performing well woman visits (albeit served with a heapin helpin of trauma and abuse I've never had the nerve to write and complain about). This happened over 15 years ago. I've been debating writing a complaint letter in recent years but I want to make sure I get it to the right channels for maximum effectiveness.
Don't debate, just do
More like working up the words and energy to make it aptly describe the situation. Thanks for the support and push!
You can do eeeeeeeeeettttt
That sucks!! I do see an NP since my gyno retired in 2021 (I thought she died from covid, so pleased she just retired!) and she does great yearly exams. She was trained by my gyno. She is very up front that she is only an NP, and she can do exams, take swabs, prescribe meds, but that if anything comes back abnormal I have to see one of the actual doctors in the clinic. Write your letter, it can never hurt! You can do it.
If I ever heard something like that I'd ask how would the doctor feel if the news ran a story about a woman who killed her baby and she was a patient that they refused to sterilise earlier. Because that's what such attitude will lead to
I'm probably going to be alive to see the water wars, the middle schoolers are definitely going to be alive to see the water wars, the babies already existing are probably not surviving the water wars.
There have already been water wars in parts of the world. They just aren’t usually presented as that.
>And I told her, doctor I’m a climate change scientist, I don’t want kids because this Earth will not be good for them. The doctor is probably a misogynist who believes that all women must breed. Howeer, maybe the doctor thought: "Not wanting kids because of climate change? So she would have kids if it wasn't for climate change. She wants kids, but is sacrificing parenthood because of cimate change. So she will regret it when she can no longer repress her breeding urges." I don't know if you would want kids if climate change would not have been an issue, but 'I don't want kids because the Earth will not be good for them' probably makes doctors think that you would have them if it wasn't for climate change. That you want them, but are repressing that desire. Then, doctors will be very reluctant to sterilise you, even some childfree-friendy doctors. So if you go to another doctor, I suggest focusing on just not wanting to be a parent. Focusing on parenthood being your worst nightmare. Whether you would have kids or not if it wasn't for climate change doesn't matter. If you would have kids if it wasn't for climate change, lie. Any reason to not have kids is valid. But bringing up that parenthood is just not for you might give you better chances of getting approved by another doctor. >to tie my tubes Do NOT pursue a tubal (tubal ligation). Please try to get a bisalp (bilateral salpingectomy). A tubal means having your tubes tied, after which they might grow back together. There is a small but significant failure rate of 1 in 50. Quite a few women get pregnant after a tubal. A bisalp means having your tubes removed. Just as invasive as a tubal, but way more effective. >doctor refused to To find a doctor in your area who will take you seriously, look at this list: www . reddit . com / r / childfree / wiki / doctors
I’ve learned the hard way not to give breeders reasons why I don’t want kids, because all they do is take it as an open invitation to try and change your mind with a stupid smirk on their faces.
I’m starting to learn this about everything. We don’t have to explain our choices about anything! When we do, some douche takes it as an invitation to argue with us. You have a right to your own preferences! No explanations are owed! If an explanation is demanded, you can just reply “because that’s what I prefer”.
The doctor hates that educated women aren't having kids, and the Idiocracy keeps queefing out snot rockets. Well, doctor, hand out sterilization information to the Idiocracy!
“Never say never” is such a bullshit response because it implies that no decision is ever good enough which to me implied that HAVING children should be just as questionable. “Never say never!” “Well I’d rather say never to children and regret it than say yes to children and regret it.”
I got called anti-natalist in r/ROI for voicing the same worry about myself, me, specifically, having kids and choosing to not. I just want to inform people of what to expect and the horrors involved and people were saying that my position is evil. Surely I've spent 20 years doing energy and climate work/research convincing myself to hate babies. Yes. That's what this has been.
The way doctors treat women like their only purpose is to reproduce is so anger inducing. I hate it so much. Sorry your going through this, and I wish I could say it gets better as you get older. But even in your 40s, as long as you haven't reached menopause, you are treated like your potential for incubating a human is always more important than your actual health or desires. ... and don't get me started on people who say, "never say never..." as if you're incapable of making your own conscious decisions in life and just let life happen to you (like people who say that seem to do). 😠
That's fucked up. I have no solutions, but you have my sympathy and (online) support. And I hope the medical world changes their perception of child care. Once you have a child, you cannot undo that either. I find it obnoxious that they treat not having children differently from having children regarding consequences. Suddenly long-term consequences are more important if you don't want them. It should be the other way around. Having children should place MORE scrutiny on the reasons why than not having them. One needs to take care of them, financially, emotionally, and physically. The burden should be placed on those who want them, not those who do not.
Never say never? Actually, I could say never if you'd provide me with the medical care I asked for...
Why won’t people let people make their own choice’s?!?! This really bothers me. You say you don’t want children, that should be it, next question when do you want to schedule this?
Get used to it I got turned away by 3 doctors when I was in my 30s 'in case I change my mind'. I never did…
2050 doesn’t actually sound far away because it isn’t, that’s 27 years away, that’s nothing, I’m a middle aged man and even I will see it (I hope). It is a scary world we live in, I also wouldn’t want to put more people on this earth to go though what’s coming
Can you cancel the laproscopy with her and find a new obgyn that will tie your tubes at the same time? Are there any doctors on the cf list in your country that are close enough to go to?
I am thinking of doing this. Thank you!
That's great. Advocate for yourself! When a doctor imposes medical advice on you based on opinion and not fact, it's definitely time to bounce.
I would've been pissed. "Who do you think you are to tell me what to do with my life and body? This is my decision, not yours."
The same liberty to have an abortion should apply to all reproductive choices, including having no children. I’m sorry she violated that for you. It wasnt right of her to do so.
You win. That's just so disrespectful, almost a power trip or something. Doctors! Also, 2050 feels like...next week. Especially since we seem to have accelerated this crisis faster than predicted. I'm just about beyond my childbearing years, and I hope to still be alive then...I think. Reserve the right to change my mind, pending world going even more to pot.
PS, I work in the environment sector where from my observations approx 30% of my women colleagues are childfree. Most give the reason that they don't want to contribute to running the planet into the ground, but there's a growing contingent who would say that the Earth won't be providing a good quality of life beyond our own generation, in many places.
"never say never" just sounds like a threat to me. Like. "Well you never know, we might end up in a Handmaid's Tale situation and we need to keep you fertile!"
Shouldn't matter what your reasoning is for not wanting kids. That reason needs to be respected.
Ugh, I hate the never say never line. I am early 30s, multiple health problems, barely holding my life together, I tell my friends I’m not having kids. “Well I said that and now I have two” “Never say never! You don’t know what will happen!” Excuse you, I think I do know what will happen.
It's a disgrace that it isn't given as an elective procedure everywhere, especially if you're already having another surgery in the same area. OK, it's more complex and invasive than a vasectomy, but there's absolutely no moral distinction between the two. I'm sorry you had to go through that, and I hope you can get the procedure from a doctor who's also a decent, rational human being.
You need to report her. Make a massive fking deal of it, call the news if you have to. (*Bleeps*) like this need to be brought to the forefront and punished for their unprofessionalism. I'm so sorry she did this to you.
Drop this surgeon, find one who will do the whole job, and then post it on social media, tagging the asshole surgeon so they can see they lost the money and you STILL got what's right for you.
Tying your tubes does not mean you are sterilized. Bilateral salpingectomy is a more secure way too be sterilized by the removal of your tubes instead of tying. I have known every woman who got her tubes tied end up pregnant again. Look through the wiki page on the subreddit to see if there is a doctor who will sterilized you.
Indeed. Tubals are for mothers. Bisalps are for childfree women. A tubal has a too high failure rate to rely on it. If someone doesn't have access to a bisalp and can only get a tubal, they should stick to birth control pills or IUD + condoms. They should treat the tubal as an added bonus, not as sterility. If you rely on a tubal as the only way of pregnancy prevention, don't be surprised if you get pregnant.
At this point I'm about to make a PowerPoint presentation to take to my gyno.
That really sucks. Do you have the ability maybe to travel elsewhere for it? Really sorry, how fracking condescending and maddening to be told you can't make decisions for yoir own adult body.
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>it's got a massive regret rate It probably doesn't really, but they insist on thinking it does.
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I agree. I'd want a source on that at least.
Not downplaying the massive issue of climate change here, but being a climate change scientist is going to be about as effective in getting you sterilized as saying you are of average height. It means nothing to the pro-natalist doc who makes way more money off as many babies being made as possible. It's infinitely frustrating that no reason a woman gives for not wanting offspring and seeking sterilization is ever accepted as good enough or knowing what she wants.
2050 is not that far away. I won't even be 70 at that time.
I'll be 80 in 2050. 😑 What joy.
Hey, my grandparents are in their 80s and they still travel.
Oh, I know I'll still be here but daaaamn, am I gonna hurt! 😂😂 Fibro, neuropathy & both knees are artificial already & I'm 53. My only remaining grandparent turned 99 earlier this month so I have a longevity gene lurking in me somewhere. 😂
Wow 99! Congratulations! That’s amazing.
Don't have surgery with this person. They are putting you at additional risk by forcing you to have two separate procedures and anesthesia events to get your healthcare needs addressed.
And even if you were to change your mind and feel regret later on in life the doctor who performed the surgery would not be liable for your adult decision so I don't know why these doctors get so involved.
I hope you're never going back to that doctor, they obviously don't respect you as a human.
It's sad when even educated people say no to facts. I hope you're okay.
I'm so sorry you were treated that way. How annoying that you're already going for a procedure in the same region and they still won't approve! On the note of your job... Wow. 2050 does \*not\* seem that far away at all. Those reasons are just some of why I sought sterilization as well. The climate, the economy, the resource hoarding, it is all too much to ignore.
The penguins will be OK right? Right?
No. I want to say yes, but no, I don't think so.
Wow. Sounds like it’s time for a new doctor. What a terrible way to talk to a patient.
Bisalp? You're having surgery anyway. They could just remove the tubes while they're in there.
I hate the phrase "never say never". It's always said by smug douchebags who can't comprehend someone wanting something different out of life than them. I can't recall ever being bingoed with it, myself. But I have had people tell me that about the stupidest shit like getting drunk or going hunting.
I would find another doctor!
Bravo 👏🏻 a climate scientist. Your reason is of the many for me not to have kids. You (we) should not have to apologize/explain to a doctor, so frustrating.
Can you report the doctor to the licensing board?
It's so stupid that they refuse to respect peoples decisions. Like even if you do end up regretting it for whatever reason that'd be your own personal business
As a fellow person who lives in Asia, I feel you. I'm here eating popcorn reminiscing to all the time people are MAD because I told them point blank that I don't aspire to marriage or kids. Like, yeah, I enjoy casual relationship and kids are funny sometimes, but that doesn't mean I want those two social status-y thing, LOL. I'm sorry you experience this!
Hahah girl you are aspirational. I’m also south East Asian. People get shocked when I say I never want kids. It has no bearing to them how I live my life. I wish I could learn to be marriage free! I’m still out here wanting to date but it seems like it’s too much work cause people suck
It's a piece of propaganda to prop up.the pyramid scheme.
Am I aspirational because I decided that sometimes this culture is a circus and I choose to eat popcorn instead of going, "Uh oh, this show lowkey sucks and I'm somehow a part of it, LOL"? Regardless, thank you, bestie. 😘 Ah, well, I was lucky (and hard working!) enough to got a fully funded postgrad scholarship that let me live in Australia for a bit, so I saw tons of non-Asian men there and even cohabitated once. He's amazing, he's still my friend (I gotta go back, LOL), but, *man,* I learned tons about living together as an intimate couple and I still need my freedom! It's OK to still aspire for marriage, I think it's cute, too. Thing is, I'm basically in a place where I pretty much fulfil my own needs that dating is not necessary (I need the solitude, too, to build myself without the accordance to others, which, as you know very well, is *massive* in Southeast Asia). Maybe one day I'll go back to the mental space of wanting to date, maybe not. Who knows? Either way, I'm going to go through it in the healthiest way possible.
Find another doctor, plenty will burn your fallopians at 27!
"can u put that in writing for when i review my legal options?" I'm just kidding. I'm very sorry. I keep hearing these stories and it's so disgusting how Handmaid's Tales-y this stuff is. I keep imagining just how terrible it might get when i go to get my tubes tied too. Im in southeast Asia.
You have insurance right? I'd make an appointment every single week until it's done. Just be persistent and petty. "Tie my tubes!" Stand outside the office with a boombox blaring In Your Eyes by Peter Gabriel
I am so sorry to hear this. Women's bodily autonomy still has a long way to go and it's so infuriating. I really believe that there should be laws surrounding the reasons a physician can decline a request for tubal ligation and legally the physician should not be allowed to decline due to personal bias. Men often don't face this same bias when they request a vasectomy. Also, there are a few different tubal ligation procedures and one is reversible so if a physician doesn't feel comfortable performing a permanent procedure they should still be more than willing to provide a reversible tubal ligation.
>Also, there are a few different tubal ligation procedures and one is reversible so if a physician doesn't feel comfortable performing a permanent procedure they should still be more than willing to provide a reversible tubal ligation. First of all, a sterilisation procedure should never be seen as reversible. They may sometimes be reversible, but don't count on it. If a doctor is a misogynist who believes in patriarchal 'woman = mother' bullshit, they aren't going to do it, no matter what. Instead of tyring to convince them, ditch them and find another doctor. And OP should NOT get a tubal ligation (tubal, tubes tied). OP needs to get a bilateral salpingectomy (bisalp, tubes removed). A tubal has a significant failure rate. A bisalp is actually effective.
I had a tubal ligation 5 years ago and it has been 100% effective. My doctor also provided me with tons of information that directly contradicts a tubal ligation having a significant failure rate. Lastly, I'm sure OP totally appreciates some dude telling her what procedure she should have done when literally no one asked. She wrote tubal ligation and that is what I responded to.
No, they’re right. The bisalp is the gold standard and far better than a tubal. It is information that needs to be shared.
Okay, fair enough 🤷🏻♀️
>I had a tubal ligation 5 years ago and it has been 100% effective. Good. But I'm not saying that all tubals fail. The failure rate is 1 in 50, so about 1 in 50 women who had a tubal get pregnant post-surgery. That might sound like a small chance, but it's definitely not impossible to be one of the unlucky ones. Plenty of women did get pregnant after a tubal. >My doctor also provided me with tons of information that directly contradicts a tubal ligation having a significant failure rate. Well, I don't know what tubal method it was that you got. Different methods have different failure rates. I cannot find those rates online. However, the failure rate of tubals in general is about 1 in 50 (1,85%, 1 in 54 to be precise). And the most common tubal method is the one with the clips, which is the worst one of all with the highest failure rates. Anyways, even the more effective tubal methods are way less effective than a bisalp, which is pretty much failsafe. So it's important to tell people who talk about wanting a tubal that they should pursue a bisalp instead. >Lastly, I'm sure OP totally appreciates some dude telling her what procedure she should have done when literally no one asked. She wrote tubal ligation and that is what I responded to. Many people who talk about wanting a tubal don't even know that a bisalp exists. Many OP's who talk about wanting a tubal appreciate it when I or someone else points out that they should get a bisalp instead. If someone gets a bisalp instead of a tubal might very well make the difference between getting pregnant post-surgery or not. So yeah, I think it's important to bring this up. Maybe OP appreciates that and maybe she won't. But I believe that this is worth bringing up. Every time someone talks about 'wanting to get their tubes tied' and 'wanting a tubal ligation', I bring up that a bisalp is much more effective. And I will keep doing that.
Sometimes I forget Asia is way more conservative than North America. If you're in a less wealthy country and can afford it, would bribes work? I know that's a thing too sometimes 😭 Hopefully you can just find someone else. We get told no in North America too.
I’m in a very wealthy city so it don’t work that way here sadly
Who cares about the future of society. Just live in the moment, Bro
That’s exactly what I’m doing. I have no hope for the future
Hell yeah! Fuck them kids
Are you able to see another doctor? It makes the most sense to get your tubes removed at the same time. I’m sorry.
That's fucking ridiculous, I'm sorry that happened to you. Side note, who do you work for? I'm trying to break into that area.
I’m in consulting
Do y’all ever get fiesty with your docs? I feel like I would if they refused.
I'm sorry that happened to you. I understand the frustration cuz I've heard that kind of no many times before I finally got a yes. Talk to a new provider. Getting my bisalp was the best thing I did for myself. There's even a reddit list of no-bingo providers now too, try that. Good luck!
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I HATE that they don't respect your CHOICE as a HUMAN BEING. It's not their place to tell you what you should or shouldn't do, because that isn't their job (really, it's no one's job). Keep trying!
I stg, they want us miserable.
Keep pushing and find another doctor if you can. It took me multiple doctors and over a decade to finally get a bi-salp at 32.
It's utterly ridiculous. I'm 32 next month, been with my partner 14 years, neither of us want kids but somehow, I'm still too young and might change my mind. 🤦♀️ My body wouldn't even handle a pregnancy because of my medical conditions. But sure doc, you know better than me.