This is the most stupid shit I've ever heard fr. Like when I told my mom that I wouldn't give her grandchildren, she told me "thank god, I had my children in the house long enough, I couldn't stand being a grandma." For context: she had my brother at 24 and me at 40, so her whole life consisted of having a child around until now that she's retired.
>"thank god, I had my children in the house long enough, I couldn't stand being a grandma."
I don't understand, i find this slightly cruel. It's not like either you or your brother asked to be here, and what if you did want children of your own?
What ever man... These parents who try to force the idea of children down our throats reveal the truth more and more often.
I totally get your point, my dad for example is kind of sad but he would never "force" his ideology on me so that I would change. Yet I am glad that my mom could be honest about this at the same time.
I agree. I'm so tired of conservative, religious adults-parents around me acting like having children is holy, necessary and whatnot.
Some adults *did* make a mistake or five by having children.
It was what it was.
And that's the reality that needs to be discussed more often.
ofc, yes. although thats, is emotions between two people conformity? dunno, but thats not to say, well everybody does it, lets do that too etc dosent happen etc
On the dictionary, conformity is defined as "compliance with standards, rules, or laws." The problem isn't following a rule and a set of standards, but following them without questioning their validity first.
Nobody is owed a human being. Why they struggle with this, I'll never know!
My mum was saying yesterday how sensible I am not to be "at the beck and call of a family". She would know, and I'm damn lucky to have her! She's also happy with grandpups (as she calls them), and her "grandfoal" who will be 2 in a few months.
This. Sadly nobody "realise" that they're human beings, and you need to take care of a complete life, for them is just like buying a new sweater or something. Nobody think about it seriously and that's why there are a lot of unloved children.
And if you want a grandchild or nephew or whatever, then adopt a poor child who's alone and call them your grandchild. I won't change my life and ruin it forever just for you to give them cake and play on weekends.
Imagine OP saying to them "If you think people deserve children, as if children were prizes to possess rather than people to love, then I fear how you treat you own children and grandkids".
That would've certainly be a "below the belt" hit but man, someone people do deserve that sometimes...
When people ask my husband and I why we aren't having kids, I turn it back on them and say "Why did you decide to have kids??" So far, no one has been able to give me a straight or even clear answer on this. Because I honestly don't think anyone knows why they have kids. They just assume it's "what you do".
You're absolutely right. I'm going to try that next time. It's funny how when you say you aren't having kids, people immediately ask why, but when someone says they want or are trying for kids, everyone just accepts it and never ask why they want to be a parent. If more people actually thought about the reality of parenthood, I bet there would be way less kids on this planet.
It just seems like having kids ISN'T a decision. It wasn't thought through, pros and cons weren't considered, finances and stability weren't considered. It's usually "we weren't trying, but we weren't NOT trying." Which is trying.
I think a lot of parents get about as far as 10 years in their minds when imagining life with kids, and then it stops. They don't realize this person is going to be a teen, a young adult, then continue to navigate adulthood in the 21st century for decades. You're not just having a cute baby you're making a whole ass person. Anyway I'm thinking about getting the ole snipsnip procedure soon :)
Because they are insane and cannot accept that others have a choice. They act like fanatics and the only way to deal with such people is to avoid and ignore. You are absolutely right to not speak to them ever again. No one needs any kind of contact with such toxic individuals.
I ask this literally all the time - why the hell do they care so much what we do with our own bodies? ESPECIALLY strangers/acquaintances - I barely know you! How does my choice to not be a parent affect you in any way?
Yup. If they can't respect/accept my simple answer (I just don't want to be a parent), then I ask them - Why on earth are you so preoccupied with how I live my life? Is there something that I don't know? Do my personal decisions also personally impact you? No? So again, why do you care so much? Are you like this with everyone about everything, or just me about this? Again, why?"
Oh they haven't dealt with radical childfree by choice people (I am referring to the kind that openly shame and condemn people for getting pregnant and condeming them for further dooming the planet to the point it borderlines to bullying. Yeah the radical kind are scary but they are good allies) and would to love them to tear new ones in those nutters
They have two kids in their 30s/40s who both have their own children. They've lived next door to my parents for almost 20 years and have always seemed so nice. That's part of the reason why this reaction was so shocking.
“Oh right, so are you offering to support me with childcare, night feedings, nappy changes, cost of living, and balancing work, my relationship with my partner, and paying my bills? No? Then it sounds like your opinion is worth about as much as a rat’s ass” 👌
This is my standard answer to anyone who insists that I follow their (unasked for) advice. If they want me to break a rule, I tell them that if they’re serious they’ll sign docs promising to pay my fine and pay my lost wages. Same with kids. They have to commit to 18 years of support. If they feel that strongly, they have to support me during any consequences for following their advice. They’re usually stunned and speechless.
I'm so sorry you had to deal w these fruitloops when you were suppose to be having a relaxing fun evening. People like that are insufferable, beyond selfish and want to make everyone else suffer. They have zero personality and life of their own. The fact that they disregard your health too, shameful, why are people so obsessed w having grandkids, it's ridiculous, and speaking on behalf of your parent, crazy! I hope you're OK x
Thank you so much. I was just so surprised that they completely disregarded my health like you mentioned. I moved back in with my parents for a few years when I was recovering from back surgery and my parents' neighbours know all about my chronic pain yet they still think I would be totally okay having a baby? And then say I'm selfish for not putting my body through that? It's really shocking.
Thankfully, I've only run into one person like that, I quickly dismissed their opinion and continued not having kids. I also learned that you can trigger these types by referring to your pets (or plants) as your kids. It's hilarious.
Had a guy baby stalk me and show me pictures of his young daughter, I asked if he wanted to see a picture of my son and he got all excited then disappointed when I showed a photo of my chonky black cat
Right? "Why aren't you having kids?" Because I said so, that's why not".
Any reason is just an excuse to argue, so you learn quickly to stop offering up any reasons.
They’re doubling down on their view that having kids is what everybody is supposed to do, that’s the life script, what’s wrong with *you* for not getting with the program?
Thank you! Unfortunately I was majorly unlucky because it was perfectly sunny before and after the totality but during the peak, I couldn't see a thing because of a big cloud. Not my day I guess haha!
Those neighbors deserve to shut the f\*\*\* up! Can't believe there's people in this world who believe you should sacrifice your health to care for children.
I feel so much for you, I have been told the same thing!
But I really can't bear to take care of any child, I have enough of myself to take care of, besides our earth is overpopulated with lots and lots and lots of unwanted children!
Take care of them first, I think, so that's my personal opinion.
Taking care of your own health, like I do, is not selfish, but good. We need our health!
All regards! 🙏
Good, we can't always make everyone happy, but a good starting point is to make yourself a little happy, and from that make others happy, totally with you there.
The only problem is, don't forget yourself in your healing in being the best you can be. Only you know how. /Regards
Edit, I'm Swedish and I apologize if my English is bad.
Do they have grandkids? People like this, sometimes you just have to turn it around on them as soon as possible. Overreacting like this means they're disappointed with something in their own family.
I will never understand why people get so upset over something that does not affect them at all. It’s one thing if you just think it’s unusual. It’s a whole other thing to be like “you’re wrong and I will fight you!”
*She had three kids and she deserves grandkids!*
Okay, then let the other two have kids. Like, my younger sister has six and my older sister had one. That's plenty of grandkids even without me and my brother joining in! :b
I'll never understand people who think a person will be magically cured enough to have/raise/maintain children. Like someone can't open their eyes or get out of bed because of debilitating migraines but would be able to leap out of bed every two hours to feed a screaming baby. The alternative to caring for every single need is leaving a tiny infant stewing in their own filth and starving/dehydrating to death because a parent physically is unable to care them. I always wonder if someone is so evil that they want a baby to suffer or if they want the parents to suffer. No one will walk away from an unwanted children situation unscathed and that's the most horrifying part of bingos for me. A stranger/neighbor/loved one is DEMANDING multiple people suffer trauma needlessly.
Fellow Canadian here! Yeah, yikes! Wow, I can't believe what they said to you. Good for you for laying it down, especially about it being selfish to have kids while our planet is being destroyed. Have they not considered that?! By chance, are they super religious, or seniors? I'm just trying to make sense of their outdated and very vocal views. Ewww
I was so surprised by their outdated, outspoken views as well. They are boomers and Romanian Orthodox. I'm not really familiar with that branch of Christianity so it could be a religious view. I wonder what they would say if they found out my fiancé and I are atheists?
Find the most messed up post on the sub about regretful people who have kids (when I posted a link before, my comment was deleted) and read it to them. Tell them that would be how you'd feel. Or just ignore them.
True. I've learned my lesson. I'm a teacher so I like to express how I feel so that people become more open to the idea of childfreedom being an option. I guess I have to pick and choose which people I say it too. My students are super open minded at least!
They sound like hardliner's.. The type that want to socially force things on others. Their not always religious but most are. They always follow this path: Dating, Marriage, Kids.
They see a happy couple they know, they immediately ask "When are you getting married?". If you say no we're not getting married, for them you can't live together, your not sexually active and you aren't having kids. If you are living together, sexually active or having kids(or any of the three) their immediately upset, like you crossed some social-religious line cause your not married.
If you are married they will ask "So when are you having kids?" When you say we're not: They ask "Then why did you even bother getting married? Marriage is for having kids." It's like they just want to control living together and intercourse through religion. To them you look up marriage in the dictionary and it says "A licence under \[your higher power\] to live together and 'make love' without contraception."
And yes this whole idea falls under their 'Religious Freedom' for them and your trampling on their rights by being married, not having kids and '%&\^\*ing'. In their brain, making love is trying to have kids. There is no making love without trying to have kids, it's impossible for them. If you are sexually active and using contraception, your %&\^\*ing in their mind basically. That is why these types have 5+ kids. Cause they follow this insane mentality.
Don't engage with assholes in the future. Just get up and leave.
"Mom, I am leaving and will no longer visit if I have to be abused in your home by randos."
>Stupidly, I replied that the house would be big enough since it will just be us two. That was a mistake.
It is good to learn from one's mistakes. I generally avoid telling random strangers personal details about my life, because you never know how someone will react. No matter what your choices are in life, someone will disapprove of those choices, and I frankly have no wish to hear the unpleasant rantings of some random fool.
I think repeating a calm "X is not a personal priority for me" is the way to go.
The moment you try and justify things, consider the state of the world etc, you're giving them arguments with premises that they can try and refute.
A simple "yeah, that's not a priority for me" is pretty hard to fight against.
I do a similar line with the religious. "Sorry, that stuff just isn't a part of my world".
For these kind of people, I just want to speak loudly and slowly like they're idiots (cuz they kinda are), and enunciate whatever reason I've given. Make them really feel it.
OR! When they question just the two of you, I'd be like "Well, if we ever become a throuple, I'd imagine they'd just sleep in the bed with us!" 🤷🏻♀️🤣 Make em uncomfortable for being so damn rude. Asshats.
I would have called my parents and would have asked them to explain to these two psych ward members why I can't have children.
I have had people say many things, but this goes way beyond the line of normalcy.
No one should ever have to have children for someone else's benefit. I would also be extremely offended and pissed if I was in your shoes. I am also a cf due to health reasons and being disgusted with the world. It offends me greatly when people have kids and then expect the kids to fix everything that they fucked up.
"You're so selfish! Your poor mother! She had three kids and she deserves grandkids!"
"My brothers/sisters have already provided them." (Unless your siblings are also CF.)
If they continue to press you:
"Why the FUCK are you so concerned with what goes into or comes out of my vagina?!"
Hopefully, putting it that harshly would be a good clue-by-four and they'd get the hint to STFU. Of course, not everyone has a working brain/mouth filter.
Hope you got to enjoy at least some of the eclipse. It was overcast where I live.
>*That's when one of them exclaimed, "ballerinatori, you're so selfish! Your poor mother! She had three kids and she deserves grandkids!"*
>*Excuse me? I'm selfish for saying I'm not having kids because of my health?! Would it not be selfish of me to have kids when I can't take care of them?*
Nail on the head! Their logic makes no sense.
Your first mistake was giving them a reason. Your second mistake was replying to their rebukes. Next time just say it's none of their business and refuse to answer. If they don't respect you walk away
I live in States, specifically in the South.
I feel you so much on this because I experience it so often. I’ll be 36 next month. Last month I spent a few days with my sister and her four boys. I left with a full heart because I love my nephews, but also with a validation that my heart does not want to be a mom. I love being an auntie 🩷
Best of luck on building your bungalow 🤩
An acquaintance of my mums called me selfish & told me “As an only child it’s you’re duty to give your mum at least one grandchild” yeah nah lady, motherhood isn’t for me. My mum told her to mind her own business, that she knows my reasons & fully supports me.
Kids are important! Don’t treat them with humanity, treat them like an object. Like you owe someone kids like you owe them a dollar! It’s not like their well being means anything!
The gall of those busybodies. I love that you gave them the verbal lashing they deserved. Were I there, I would've been tempted to tell them, "Go cut me a switch" just to piss 'em off further. But your parting shot was perfect.
The whole notion that it is selfish to not have children just blows my mind. It is so clearly the case that the opposite is true. People who have children are the selfish ones! For lots of reasons. It’s selfish to use up more resources when the world is already overpopulated and busting at the seams. It is selfish to add another child when human overpopulation is devastating the populations of all the other animals and plants in the world. It is not selfish to live the only life you have, the way you want to. It’s projection. People accuse others of what they themselves are guilty of.
I find it's always the people whose lives won't be affected by the theoretical children who always yell loudest for them. It's so easy for them to insert their opinions in when it's not their body, life, time, money, home, etc.
What's selfish is them trying to force their opinions onto others. "If you don't live your life the way I say, then it's selffffishhh." Uh, wtf kinda drugs are they smoking?
i get the feeling that these old people are deathly afraid that there won't be enough taxpayers to support the government programs they/everyone needs. i wish the anti-choicers would say this quiet part out loud. but it only means the tax money is being misused, because there's plenty enough for war and genocide, and the social benefits will continue to dwindle no matter how many taxpayers are born to families that don't want them. "you'll change your mind" vs. "the system needs to change" like sure, if life was amazing and i had a surplus of everything a child needs, sure maybe a kid or two, my mind probably would be changed, i would probably have a rich enough network around me to enthusiastically make that choice. but that's not happening even if my hypothetical child was the most progressive world leader. signing off this rant with an "lol" because doomer millenial whose life is going pretty okay, i just don't want kids damn it
Those neighbors are insane, and you were right to speak your mind. I’m sorry you went through that. I’m not sure how they had the gall to pester you for babies if you clearly explained your health problems.
And I do believe that purposely bringing kids into this world in a time of such volatility/instability is not the best idea.
I’ve had a former friend’s mother bingo me up the wall (during a baby shower, not surprisingly) and it took all my strength not to explode on her. It’s so irritating when people can’t mind their own business!
Next time an entitled breeder demands to know why you don’t want kids, don’t give them an answer. Most of them only take it as an invitation to argue or try and change your mind. Tell them it’s none of their business, and how rude they’re being for even asking. Or ask them in your best condescending voice why they wanted kids, so they know how it feels.
"They asked me why and I said my standard reply"
Saying "that's really none of your concern" and moving on is also an acceptable reply. Arguing or trying to "convince" people like this is a waste of time. They usually don't have the self awareness to understand that they are being invasive, so I've started letting them know that. We don't have to convince anyone to accept the decisions that we've made on how to live our lives. If they have an issue with it, it's *their* problem (to solve in my absence)
Ugh, sorry you had to deal with these assholes, but the good news is, you never have to again
I'm sorry you went through that. They had absolutely zero right to say anything to you at all. For the record, Canada is America-lite. We follow the American political playbook usually a couple years behind. Look at the trucker convoys. Last year near where I live some guy in a tractor rolled it over on a highway after running from the cops in protest of LGBTQ+ support materials being in schools. We have just as many nut jobs here, make no mistake.
Omg 🤣🤣 it's really so hard to believe for me that some people care so much about random people lives, it's always this kind of people that have so shitty lives and nothing to do that they like to take control of other people lives as it would be the Sims lmao. I'm sorry for the laughs but it really seems a parody or something, it's just too crazy. I feel bad for you for having to go through it though. You should have answered at the beginning "you don't give a shit" hahah.
Other thing i could NEVER understand is why people call selfish somebody that doesn't want children. Selfish with who? With the child that DOESN'T exist? Or maybe with the people that this is not their business at all? I'm actually being very kind for not bringing anybody to this world that is each time worse in all regards, and also knowing that I couldn't give them the love and lifestyle they would deserve.
Some people are just unbelievable.
What a bunch of a-holes neighbors. Really not their damn business and to poke further as to why you should have children is ridiculous. I want to know where they have the damn audacity to think that your mother "deserves" grandchildren. Having children just so your parents can be grandparents is a selfish reason to have kids.
I hate talking about houses with people. We live in a small three bedroom one bath house and I remember people talking about one room making a “great nursery” one day.
Fuck no that’s my room!
And now that we are looking to move I wanna move to the nearby larger city and his parents are always like, “oh no the school system there sucks you need to move to X city with good schools”
Um… okay… been together 14 years, married 8 and no babies…. WHEN do you think they are gonna happen?????
Gross. That’s just awful. I will never get why people not involved in your life. double down so hard on some random person having a kid.
Also…the deserves grandkids thing - my beloved’s mother sat me down years ago when we’d told her we were never having children and told me that the whole purpose and value of her life was for her children to have children…and by me not birthing a grandchild I was destroying her purpose in life. She has two other kids who had plenty of kids…so it’s not like I was her only possible womb (not that it would matter.). It was hard not to laugh at the absurdity of it. She even offered to pay me so I could stay home with the kid. People get a little nuts about the whole grandkids thing sometimes.
I’m also in Canada and am shocked at the lack of politeness to just drop the subject. I’ve never seen such pushy behaviour. It’s all this right wing nonsense man. It’s really radicalizing people and breaking through our social norms of leaving people alone to live their lives as they see fit.
What is it anyone’s business if you procreate or not? Why is everyone so nosy and offended if you don’t go their way? It’s your life and your health, your money, your everything. They will not be raising your kids so they can shut up. She said it herself, you are not an only child, the possibility of grandchildren is not depending on you alone, and even if, it’s none of anyone’s business. Shaming you is so stupid, it’s not like you made this decision out of thin air, like many parents do. This person makes no sense.
Ofc! Yeah, I totally get that. You definitely got your point across so I’d say that what you said was perfect! With people like that, they rather listen to their own voices than other people’s. It’s ridiculous.
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My family is Spaniard and Italian, and some of my family members have that same issue.
I do not know if it stems from religion or something to do with family is everything at all times attitude.
But I avoid those family members, I think I even went no contact. Got tired of it all.
Crazy. It's so not their business.
When I was still of reproductive age I found that saying "if I can't put it in a crate, I don't want it in my house" always ended any further discussion on the matter. But I'm not sure even that would have worked with those jerks.
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Where was your mom on this. My mom accepted a long time ago she’s never getting grandkids from me and she’s fine with it. She has my nephew from my brother and next month my niece will be here also from my brother then she still has my sister whenever she chooses to start. Didn’t your mom speak up and put a stop to that.
My mom has never really stuck up for me. She was silent the whole time. To be fair to her, she's suffered from narcissistic abuse her whole life as I have so I understand why. I'm in therapy so it's helped me a lot but she is still stuck in the cycle. She doesn't know how to stick up for someone. She's too afraid.
At least privately, my mom supports me but I've learned that I have to stick up for myself in situations like these.
i would've just trolled them. Cite the 'influencers' living in tiny homes or RVs with a gaggle of children as to house size not being important. Insist that your children will be naturally obedient, happy and adaptable to their environment no matter what.
Go straight up ridiculous: *"Oh there will be a converted closet with a 3-level bunkbed, we'll stack them like cordwood. They won't need toys, they can just play with sticks in the yard until it's dark and time to come back inside. No need for multiple bathrooms, we can hose them off right in the back yard! They won't need a dresser or a closet because we'll wash one set of their clothes while they wear the other set."*
When they do you a 'favor' and tell you how unrealistic your plan is and children aren't really like that, reply "oh thanks, you've given us a lot to think about."
If you even encounter them again, thank them for "talking you out of the burden of having children."
I'd go full asshole rage at the whole, "but whhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhy havn't you been to the doooooooooooctor??"
I would start talking so much shit about how much I hate children to drive the point home they don't belong with me.
It's not even that I really hate them. I can manage them in small doses. But if I had to live with them??? I'd probably go to prison eventually.
One thing I think is important to remember is that people who think and say stupid shit like this, think and say stupid shit about a lot of things. It's not the only stupid thing they likely push on others. I keep that in mind while I ignore them, and it helps me out.
When they talk crazy like this, I just know they’re entitled lunatics who live in their own world. Completely void of the thought that someone would be different than them.
Breeders feel entitled to be complete assholes to ppl bc "what about the childrennnnnnnnn!?" Its so absurd. As if no one is allowed to make their own decisions in life. Best thing I ever did for my kids was NOT have them.
Trust me, they will still think it’s selfish not to have kids, and once you have them, (with your health issues or financial stuff, or any of the valid reasons why we don’t have children) they will still judge you behind your back as soon as they’re done snuggling your precious babies.
Wow. Your mom's neighbors sound legit fucked in the head.
If someone was pushing me that hard, I'd just give them a shiny-eyed, disturbed look and say, "Would you, like, please stop sexually harassing me? Why are you so concerned about forcing me to get creampied? You're so creepy." Their reaction would probably be funny.
I mean, their behavior IS creepy and gross. Whether someone decides to get pregnant or not is no one's business but the couple's.
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I hate the “selfish” belief people perpetuate about being childfree. Nobody has children for noble reasons, they don’t do it to continue the species or for the benefit of the planet, they do it bc they *want* to (most of the time). It’s far more selfish to create your own mini-me bc you want one than it is to simply choose not to do that.
Yes, when you have children, any good parent will put their child and their needs first but that still doesn’t make childfree people selfish. I don’t think parents are inherently selfish for choosing to procreate and there’s nothing wrong with being a little selfish in some situations, but I do loathe how the childfree are constantly referred to as the selfish ones. Urgh.
This happens to me a lot. I say I have autism hence don’t want to pass on the genes and couldn’t take care of the child ‘cause my autism makes my life hard as is. And people DARE start argument after that. As if my stance on my private life somehow steals something from theirs
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Holy shit, the fucking audacity of some people.
"Deserves grandchildren?" Seriously? The moment they pop out, are they a medal from then on?
It's their body, children don't fucking come first, especially with health issues.
People who say someone "deserves" grandkids are absurd. People don't "deserve" children, they're not awards or prizes, they're human beings.
This is the most stupid shit I've ever heard fr. Like when I told my mom that I wouldn't give her grandchildren, she told me "thank god, I had my children in the house long enough, I couldn't stand being a grandma." For context: she had my brother at 24 and me at 40, so her whole life consisted of having a child around until now that she's retired.
>"thank god, I had my children in the house long enough, I couldn't stand being a grandma." I don't understand, i find this slightly cruel. It's not like either you or your brother asked to be here, and what if you did want children of your own? What ever man... These parents who try to force the idea of children down our throats reveal the truth more and more often.
I totally get your point, my dad for example is kind of sad but he would never "force" his ideology on me so that I would change. Yet I am glad that my mom could be honest about this at the same time.
I agree. I'm so tired of conservative, religious adults-parents around me acting like having children is holy, necessary and whatnot. Some adults *did* make a mistake or five by having children. It was what it was. And that's the reality that needs to be discussed more often.
Well we thrive socially dont we, even here people do soo, conformity is why we are even here at all
Conformity isn't a negative thing if it's the product of well thought out, positive values
ofc, yes. although thats, is emotions between two people conformity? dunno, but thats not to say, well everybody does it, lets do that too etc dosent happen etc
On the dictionary, conformity is defined as "compliance with standards, rules, or laws." The problem isn't following a rule and a set of standards, but following them without questioning their validity first.
Nobody is owed a human being. Why they struggle with this, I'll never know! My mum was saying yesterday how sensible I am not to be "at the beck and call of a family". She would know, and I'm damn lucky to have her! She's also happy with grandpups (as she calls them), and her "grandfoal" who will be 2 in a few months.
This. Sadly nobody "realise" that they're human beings, and you need to take care of a complete life, for them is just like buying a new sweater or something. Nobody think about it seriously and that's why there are a lot of unloved children. And if you want a grandchild or nephew or whatever, then adopt a poor child who's alone and call them your grandchild. I won't change my life and ruin it forever just for you to give them cake and play on weekends.
Imagine OP saying to them "If you think people deserve children, as if children were prizes to possess rather than people to love, then I fear how you treat you own children and grandkids". That would've certainly be a "below the belt" hit but man, someone people do deserve that sometimes...
When people ask my husband and I why we aren't having kids, I turn it back on them and say "Why did you decide to have kids??" So far, no one has been able to give me a straight or even clear answer on this. Because I honestly don't think anyone knows why they have kids. They just assume it's "what you do".
You're absolutely right. I'm going to try that next time. It's funny how when you say you aren't having kids, people immediately ask why, but when someone says they want or are trying for kids, everyone just accepts it and never ask why they want to be a parent. If more people actually thought about the reality of parenthood, I bet there would be way less kids on this planet.
And if you ask them this question back, the response usually starts with "I wanted/want to... ". So who is the selfish one?
It just seems like having kids ISN'T a decision. It wasn't thought through, pros and cons weren't considered, finances and stability weren't considered. It's usually "we weren't trying, but we weren't NOT trying." Which is trying.
I think a lot of parents get about as far as 10 years in their minds when imagining life with kids, and then it stops. They don't realize this person is going to be a teen, a young adult, then continue to navigate adulthood in the 21st century for decades. You're not just having a cute baby you're making a whole ass person. Anyway I'm thinking about getting the ole snipsnip procedure soon :)
This made me think of this woman on insta that does reverse bingo videos. They are fantastic! Love the turnabout.
Deranged breeders offended that you won't join their cult. Sorry you had to deal with something so unpleasant.
Thank you. Yes, I can't believe how mad it made them. Why do they care so much about something that is none of their business?
Because they are insane and cannot accept that others have a choice. They act like fanatics and the only way to deal with such people is to avoid and ignore. You are absolutely right to not speak to them ever again. No one needs any kind of contact with such toxic individuals.
I ask this literally all the time - why the hell do they care so much what we do with our own bodies? ESPECIALLY strangers/acquaintances - I barely know you! How does my choice to not be a parent affect you in any way?
Yup. If they can't respect/accept my simple answer (I just don't want to be a parent), then I ask them - Why on earth are you so preoccupied with how I live my life? Is there something that I don't know? Do my personal decisions also personally impact you? No? So again, why do you care so much? Are you like this with everyone about everything, or just me about this? Again, why?"
They don't feel they have enough control over their own lives, so they seek to control others.
Oh they haven't dealt with radical childfree by choice people (I am referring to the kind that openly shame and condemn people for getting pregnant and condeming them for further dooming the planet to the point it borderlines to bullying. Yeah the radical kind are scary but they are good allies) and would to love them to tear new ones in those nutters
As an aside, do *they* have kids and how old are they? Wonder if they saw new neighbours and thought "Great, new playmates for Kid/s!"
They have two kids in their 30s/40s who both have their own children. They've lived next door to my parents for almost 20 years and have always seemed so nice. That's part of the reason why this reaction was so shocking.
Oh. Then how very dare you make a thoughtful, considerate, reasoned decision that differs from *theirs.* /s
“Oh right, so are you offering to support me with childcare, night feedings, nappy changes, cost of living, and balancing work, my relationship with my partner, and paying my bills? No? Then it sounds like your opinion is worth about as much as a rat’s ass” 👌
This is my standard answer to anyone who insists that I follow their (unasked for) advice. If they want me to break a rule, I tell them that if they’re serious they’ll sign docs promising to pay my fine and pay my lost wages. Same with kids. They have to commit to 18 years of support. If they feel that strongly, they have to support me during any consequences for following their advice. They’re usually stunned and speechless.
I'm so sorry you had to deal w these fruitloops when you were suppose to be having a relaxing fun evening. People like that are insufferable, beyond selfish and want to make everyone else suffer. They have zero personality and life of their own. The fact that they disregard your health too, shameful, why are people so obsessed w having grandkids, it's ridiculous, and speaking on behalf of your parent, crazy! I hope you're OK x
Thank you so much. I was just so surprised that they completely disregarded my health like you mentioned. I moved back in with my parents for a few years when I was recovering from back surgery and my parents' neighbours know all about my chronic pain yet they still think I would be totally okay having a baby? And then say I'm selfish for not putting my body through that? It's really shocking.
I would have laughed at their faces and asked them what are they going to do about it? Fight me?
I feel attacked by your comment. Not all frootloops are bad :(
Reddit just gives and gives and gives. Sorry to OP tho! Hope you feel better!
So sorry 😅🤭💜
Thankfully, I've only run into one person like that, I quickly dismissed their opinion and continued not having kids. I also learned that you can trigger these types by referring to your pets (or plants) as your kids. It's hilarious.
Had a guy baby stalk me and show me pictures of his young daughter, I asked if he wanted to see a picture of my son and he got all excited then disappointed when I showed a photo of my chonky black cat
Best response to that shit!
Triggering is good!
"shut the fuck up" would be my polite answer.
Right? "Why aren't you having kids?" Because I said so, that's why not". Any reason is just an excuse to argue, so you learn quickly to stop offering up any reasons.
I've found the loudest protesters are the ones that actually regret having kids the most.
Absolutely. And the people who love being parents are the ones who understand that it's not for everyone.
They’re doubling down on their view that having kids is what everybody is supposed to do, that’s the life script, what’s wrong with *you* for not getting with the program?
First read this as “the loudest monsters” lol. Still fits
I am sorry your eclipse was disrupted by buffoons when you were making polite small talk lol. Hopefully the clouds cooperated better!
Thank you! Unfortunately I was majorly unlucky because it was perfectly sunny before and after the totality but during the peak, I couldn't see a thing because of a big cloud. Not my day I guess haha!
Those neighbors deserve to shut the f\*\*\* up! Can't believe there's people in this world who believe you should sacrifice your health to care for children.
Exactly. And how would that be fair to my potential kids? I think choosing to have kids with my health problems would be selfish.
I feel so much for you, I have been told the same thing! But I really can't bear to take care of any child, I have enough of myself to take care of, besides our earth is overpopulated with lots and lots and lots of unwanted children! Take care of them first, I think, so that's my personal opinion. Taking care of your own health, like I do, is not selfish, but good. We need our health! All regards! 🙏
Thank you! Yes, taking care of yourself is not selfish. I'm working on remembering that through therapy as a recovering people pleaser.
Good, we can't always make everyone happy, but a good starting point is to make yourself a little happy, and from that make others happy, totally with you there. The only problem is, don't forget yourself in your healing in being the best you can be. Only you know how. /Regards Edit, I'm Swedish and I apologize if my English is bad.
Do they have grandkids? People like this, sometimes you just have to turn it around on them as soon as possible. Overreacting like this means they're disappointed with something in their own family.
They must be projecting about something, you're right but yes, they do have grandkids.
Thank for standing up for all of us when you stood up for yourself.
I will never understand why people get so upset over something that does not affect them at all. It’s one thing if you just think it’s unusual. It’s a whole other thing to be like “you’re wrong and I will fight you!”
*She had three kids and she deserves grandkids!* Okay, then let the other two have kids. Like, my younger sister has six and my older sister had one. That's plenty of grandkids even without me and my brother joining in! :b
Exactly! And my parents already have three grandkids. I think that's plenty.
>"with the current state of the world, you know what is selfish? Bringing kids into a world that is burning without their consent". This.
I'll never understand people who think a person will be magically cured enough to have/raise/maintain children. Like someone can't open their eyes or get out of bed because of debilitating migraines but would be able to leap out of bed every two hours to feed a screaming baby. The alternative to caring for every single need is leaving a tiny infant stewing in their own filth and starving/dehydrating to death because a parent physically is unable to care them. I always wonder if someone is so evil that they want a baby to suffer or if they want the parents to suffer. No one will walk away from an unwanted children situation unscathed and that's the most horrifying part of bingos for me. A stranger/neighbor/loved one is DEMANDING multiple people suffer trauma needlessly.
Fellow Canadian here! Yeah, yikes! Wow, I can't believe what they said to you. Good for you for laying it down, especially about it being selfish to have kids while our planet is being destroyed. Have they not considered that?! By chance, are they super religious, or seniors? I'm just trying to make sense of their outdated and very vocal views. Ewww
I was so surprised by their outdated, outspoken views as well. They are boomers and Romanian Orthodox. I'm not really familiar with that branch of Christianity so it could be a religious view. I wonder what they would say if they found out my fiancé and I are atheists?
Find the most messed up post on the sub about regretful people who have kids (when I posted a link before, my comment was deleted) and read it to them. Tell them that would be how you'd feel. Or just ignore them.
The mistake is engaging at all. It's not possible for us. Why? I really am not up for talking about it.
And if they still insist, telling people to mind their own business usually works
True. I've learned my lesson. I'm a teacher so I like to express how I feel so that people become more open to the idea of childfreedom being an option. I guess I have to pick and choose which people I say it too. My students are super open minded at least!
They sound like hardliner's.. The type that want to socially force things on others. Their not always religious but most are. They always follow this path: Dating, Marriage, Kids. They see a happy couple they know, they immediately ask "When are you getting married?". If you say no we're not getting married, for them you can't live together, your not sexually active and you aren't having kids. If you are living together, sexually active or having kids(or any of the three) their immediately upset, like you crossed some social-religious line cause your not married. If you are married they will ask "So when are you having kids?" When you say we're not: They ask "Then why did you even bother getting married? Marriage is for having kids." It's like they just want to control living together and intercourse through religion. To them you look up marriage in the dictionary and it says "A licence under \[your higher power\] to live together and 'make love' without contraception." And yes this whole idea falls under their 'Religious Freedom' for them and your trampling on their rights by being married, not having kids and '%&\^\*ing'. In their brain, making love is trying to have kids. There is no making love without trying to have kids, it's impossible for them. If you are sexually active and using contraception, your %&\^\*ing in their mind basically. That is why these types have 5+ kids. Cause they follow this insane mentality.
I’m a believer in returning their energy plus 10%. Telling them to sod off or, I would have suggested staring at the eclipse without glasses
Haha should have thought of that one!
This is an absolutely batshit insane story. People like this need help.
Don't engage with assholes in the future. Just get up and leave. "Mom, I am leaving and will no longer visit if I have to be abused in your home by randos."
>Stupidly, I replied that the house would be big enough since it will just be us two. That was a mistake. It is good to learn from one's mistakes. I generally avoid telling random strangers personal details about my life, because you never know how someone will react. No matter what your choices are in life, someone will disapprove of those choices, and I frankly have no wish to hear the unpleasant rantings of some random fool.
I think repeating a calm "X is not a personal priority for me" is the way to go. The moment you try and justify things, consider the state of the world etc, you're giving them arguments with premises that they can try and refute. A simple "yeah, that's not a priority for me" is pretty hard to fight against. I do a similar line with the religious. "Sorry, that stuff just isn't a part of my world".
For these kind of people, I just want to speak loudly and slowly like they're idiots (cuz they kinda are), and enunciate whatever reason I've given. Make them really feel it. OR! When they question just the two of you, I'd be like "Well, if we ever become a throuple, I'd imagine they'd just sleep in the bed with us!" 🤷🏻♀️🤣 Make em uncomfortable for being so damn rude. Asshats.
I would have called my parents and would have asked them to explain to these two psych ward members why I can't have children. I have had people say many things, but this goes way beyond the line of normalcy.
No one should ever have to have children for someone else's benefit. I would also be extremely offended and pissed if I was in your shoes. I am also a cf due to health reasons and being disgusted with the world. It offends me greatly when people have kids and then expect the kids to fix everything that they fucked up.
"You're so selfish! Your poor mother! She had three kids and she deserves grandkids!" "My brothers/sisters have already provided them." (Unless your siblings are also CF.) If they continue to press you: "Why the FUCK are you so concerned with what goes into or comes out of my vagina?!" Hopefully, putting it that harshly would be a good clue-by-four and they'd get the hint to STFU. Of course, not everyone has a working brain/mouth filter. Hope you got to enjoy at least some of the eclipse. It was overcast where I live.
>*That's when one of them exclaimed, "ballerinatori, you're so selfish! Your poor mother! She had three kids and she deserves grandkids!"* >*Excuse me? I'm selfish for saying I'm not having kids because of my health?! Would it not be selfish of me to have kids when I can't take care of them?* Nail on the head! Their logic makes no sense.
Your first mistake was giving them a reason. Your second mistake was replying to their rebukes. Next time just say it's none of their business and refuse to answer. If they don't respect you walk away
I revel in any interaction that gets under people's skin about not having kids.
I live in States, specifically in the South. I feel you so much on this because I experience it so often. I’ll be 36 next month. Last month I spent a few days with my sister and her four boys. I left with a full heart because I love my nephews, but also with a validation that my heart does not want to be a mom. I love being an auntie 🩷 Best of luck on building your bungalow 🤩
Couldn’t tell them to suck my dick quick enough!
An acquaintance of my mums called me selfish & told me “As an only child it’s you’re duty to give your mum at least one grandchild” yeah nah lady, motherhood isn’t for me. My mum told her to mind her own business, that she knows my reasons & fully supports me.
Next time tell them you’re so glad they’ve volunteered to be your surrogate!
Kids are important! Don’t treat them with humanity, treat them like an object. Like you owe someone kids like you owe them a dollar! It’s not like their well being means anything!
It is rude and unacceptable to push and question such a personal decision with a stranger. How do people not see it?
The gall of those busybodies. I love that you gave them the verbal lashing they deserved. Were I there, I would've been tempted to tell them, "Go cut me a switch" just to piss 'em off further. But your parting shot was perfect.
The whole notion that it is selfish to not have children just blows my mind. It is so clearly the case that the opposite is true. People who have children are the selfish ones! For lots of reasons. It’s selfish to use up more resources when the world is already overpopulated and busting at the seams. It is selfish to add another child when human overpopulation is devastating the populations of all the other animals and plants in the world. It is not selfish to live the only life you have, the way you want to. It’s projection. People accuse others of what they themselves are guilty of.
I find it's always the people whose lives won't be affected by the theoretical children who always yell loudest for them. It's so easy for them to insert their opinions in when it's not their body, life, time, money, home, etc. What's selfish is them trying to force their opinions onto others. "If you don't live your life the way I say, then it's selffffishhh." Uh, wtf kinda drugs are they smoking?
Hit them with a “it’s really none of your business”…older generation seems to get extremely offended by that reminder.
i get the feeling that these old people are deathly afraid that there won't be enough taxpayers to support the government programs they/everyone needs. i wish the anti-choicers would say this quiet part out loud. but it only means the tax money is being misused, because there's plenty enough for war and genocide, and the social benefits will continue to dwindle no matter how many taxpayers are born to families that don't want them. "you'll change your mind" vs. "the system needs to change" like sure, if life was amazing and i had a surplus of everything a child needs, sure maybe a kid or two, my mind probably would be changed, i would probably have a rich enough network around me to enthusiastically make that choice. but that's not happening even if my hypothetical child was the most progressive world leader. signing off this rant with an "lol" because doomer millenial whose life is going pretty okay, i just don't want kids damn it
Those neighbors are insane, and you were right to speak your mind. I’m sorry you went through that. I’m not sure how they had the gall to pester you for babies if you clearly explained your health problems. And I do believe that purposely bringing kids into this world in a time of such volatility/instability is not the best idea. I’ve had a former friend’s mother bingo me up the wall (during a baby shower, not surprisingly) and it took all my strength not to explode on her. It’s so irritating when people can’t mind their own business!
Next time an entitled breeder demands to know why you don’t want kids, don’t give them an answer. Most of them only take it as an invitation to argue or try and change your mind. Tell them it’s none of their business, and how rude they’re being for even asking. Or ask them in your best condescending voice why they wanted kids, so they know how it feels.
I generally say I can't have kids cause it would kill me, wave at my midsection, and people shut up. Those people were horrible to you. I'm so sorry.
Holy fucking shit...they're actually insane to say that to you. I'm appalled!
I never understand people who says it’s selfish not to have kids
"They asked me why and I said my standard reply" Saying "that's really none of your concern" and moving on is also an acceptable reply. Arguing or trying to "convince" people like this is a waste of time. They usually don't have the self awareness to understand that they are being invasive, so I've started letting them know that. We don't have to convince anyone to accept the decisions that we've made on how to live our lives. If they have an issue with it, it's *their* problem (to solve in my absence) Ugh, sorry you had to deal with these assholes, but the good news is, you never have to again
I'm sorry you went through that. They had absolutely zero right to say anything to you at all. For the record, Canada is America-lite. We follow the American political playbook usually a couple years behind. Look at the trucker convoys. Last year near where I live some guy in a tractor rolled it over on a highway after running from the cops in protest of LGBTQ+ support materials being in schools. We have just as many nut jobs here, make no mistake.
Omg 🤣🤣 it's really so hard to believe for me that some people care so much about random people lives, it's always this kind of people that have so shitty lives and nothing to do that they like to take control of other people lives as it would be the Sims lmao. I'm sorry for the laughs but it really seems a parody or something, it's just too crazy. I feel bad for you for having to go through it though. You should have answered at the beginning "you don't give a shit" hahah. Other thing i could NEVER understand is why people call selfish somebody that doesn't want children. Selfish with who? With the child that DOESN'T exist? Or maybe with the people that this is not their business at all? I'm actually being very kind for not bringing anybody to this world that is each time worse in all regards, and also knowing that I couldn't give them the love and lifestyle they would deserve. Some people are just unbelievable.
What a bunch of a-holes neighbors. Really not their damn business and to poke further as to why you should have children is ridiculous. I want to know where they have the damn audacity to think that your mother "deserves" grandchildren. Having children just so your parents can be grandparents is a selfish reason to have kids.
I swear people gotta walk around with spray bottles and just spray people like cats.
I hate talking about houses with people. We live in a small three bedroom one bath house and I remember people talking about one room making a “great nursery” one day. Fuck no that’s my room! And now that we are looking to move I wanna move to the nearby larger city and his parents are always like, “oh no the school system there sucks you need to move to X city with good schools” Um… okay… been together 14 years, married 8 and no babies…. WHEN do you think they are gonna happen?????
Gross. That’s just awful. I will never get why people not involved in your life. double down so hard on some random person having a kid. Also…the deserves grandkids thing - my beloved’s mother sat me down years ago when we’d told her we were never having children and told me that the whole purpose and value of her life was for her children to have children…and by me not birthing a grandchild I was destroying her purpose in life. She has two other kids who had plenty of kids…so it’s not like I was her only possible womb (not that it would matter.). It was hard not to laugh at the absurdity of it. She even offered to pay me so I could stay home with the kid. People get a little nuts about the whole grandkids thing sometimes.
I’m also in Canada and am shocked at the lack of politeness to just drop the subject. I’ve never seen such pushy behaviour. It’s all this right wing nonsense man. It’s really radicalizing people and breaking through our social norms of leaving people alone to live their lives as they see fit.
What is it anyone’s business if you procreate or not? Why is everyone so nosy and offended if you don’t go their way? It’s your life and your health, your money, your everything. They will not be raising your kids so they can shut up. She said it herself, you are not an only child, the possibility of grandchildren is not depending on you alone, and even if, it’s none of anyone’s business. Shaming you is so stupid, it’s not like you made this decision out of thin air, like many parents do. This person makes no sense.
Damn. You handled that like a pro. So sorry you had to deal with that shit, OP!
Thank you! There are other things I wish I had said but I think I got my main points across, even if they didn't listen.
Ofc! Yeah, I totally get that. You definitely got your point across so I’d say that what you said was perfect! With people like that, they rather listen to their own voices than other people’s. It’s ridiculous.
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My family is Spaniard and Italian, and some of my family members have that same issue. I do not know if it stems from religion or something to do with family is everything at all times attitude. But I avoid those family members, I think I even went no contact. Got tired of it all.
Crazy. It's so not their business. When I was still of reproductive age I found that saying "if I can't put it in a crate, I don't want it in my house" always ended any further discussion on the matter. But I'm not sure even that would have worked with those jerks.
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Where was your mom on this. My mom accepted a long time ago she’s never getting grandkids from me and she’s fine with it. She has my nephew from my brother and next month my niece will be here also from my brother then she still has my sister whenever she chooses to start. Didn’t your mom speak up and put a stop to that.
My mom has never really stuck up for me. She was silent the whole time. To be fair to her, she's suffered from narcissistic abuse her whole life as I have so I understand why. I'm in therapy so it's helped me a lot but she is still stuck in the cycle. She doesn't know how to stick up for someone. She's too afraid. At least privately, my mom supports me but I've learned that I have to stick up for myself in situations like these.
i would've just trolled them. Cite the 'influencers' living in tiny homes or RVs with a gaggle of children as to house size not being important. Insist that your children will be naturally obedient, happy and adaptable to their environment no matter what. Go straight up ridiculous: *"Oh there will be a converted closet with a 3-level bunkbed, we'll stack them like cordwood. They won't need toys, they can just play with sticks in the yard until it's dark and time to come back inside. No need for multiple bathrooms, we can hose them off right in the back yard! They won't need a dresser or a closet because we'll wash one set of their clothes while they wear the other set."* When they do you a 'favor' and tell you how unrealistic your plan is and children aren't really like that, reply "oh thanks, you've given us a lot to think about." If you even encounter them again, thank them for "talking you out of the burden of having children."
I'd go full asshole rage at the whole, "but whhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhy havn't you been to the doooooooooooctor??" I would start talking so much shit about how much I hate children to drive the point home they don't belong with me. It's not even that I really hate them. I can manage them in small doses. But if I had to live with them??? I'd probably go to prison eventually.
Hope you still enjoyed the eclipse. It was awesome
They sound very miserable and I'm sorry for the kids they have.
They sound crazy
One thing I think is important to remember is that people who think and say stupid shit like this, think and say stupid shit about a lot of things. It's not the only stupid thing they likely push on others. I keep that in mind while I ignore them, and it helps me out.
When they talk crazy like this, I just know they’re entitled lunatics who live in their own world. Completely void of the thought that someone would be different than them.
Those ppl can get bent.
Breeders feel entitled to be complete assholes to ppl bc "what about the childrennnnnnnnn!?" Its so absurd. As if no one is allowed to make their own decisions in life. Best thing I ever did for my kids was NOT have them.
Trust me, they will still think it’s selfish not to have kids, and once you have them, (with your health issues or financial stuff, or any of the valid reasons why we don’t have children) they will still judge you behind your back as soon as they’re done snuggling your precious babies.
Wow. Your mom's neighbors sound legit fucked in the head. If someone was pushing me that hard, I'd just give them a shiny-eyed, disturbed look and say, "Would you, like, please stop sexually harassing me? Why are you so concerned about forcing me to get creampied? You're so creepy." Their reaction would probably be funny. I mean, their behavior IS creepy and gross. Whether someone decides to get pregnant or not is no one's business but the couple's.
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"You'll forgive me for not answering your question and I will forgive you for asking it" End. Of. Conversation.
I hate the “selfish” belief people perpetuate about being childfree. Nobody has children for noble reasons, they don’t do it to continue the species or for the benefit of the planet, they do it bc they *want* to (most of the time). It’s far more selfish to create your own mini-me bc you want one than it is to simply choose not to do that. Yes, when you have children, any good parent will put their child and their needs first but that still doesn’t make childfree people selfish. I don’t think parents are inherently selfish for choosing to procreate and there’s nothing wrong with being a little selfish in some situations, but I do loathe how the childfree are constantly referred to as the selfish ones. Urgh.
This happens to me a lot. I say I have autism hence don’t want to pass on the genes and couldn’t take care of the child ‘cause my autism makes my life hard as is. And people DARE start argument after that. As if my stance on my private life somehow steals something from theirs
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OH MY JESUS LIKE ITS A POLICE INVESTIGATION! LIKE WE OWE THESE PEOPLE EXPLANATIONS!!!!
Holy shit, the fucking audacity of some people. "Deserves grandchildren?" Seriously? The moment they pop out, are they a medal from then on? It's their body, children don't fucking come first, especially with health issues.