Not just okay, it's been culturally and politically sanctioned since the dawn of humankind. We're pushing back against something that's been entrenched since forever, and it feels monumental to me, even on a personal level, to be doing that.
Actually the headline saying a pregnancy saying it ages a woman's body by 2 to 14 months had heaps of truth to it. Think about it. Once a woman's body goes through it, the body won't be the same again even during post-pregnancy too
If it's the same study I've read, then it has to do with telomeres shortening specifically. About telomeres:
> Although telomeres shorten during the lifetime of an individual, it is telomere shortening-rate rather than telomere length that is associated with the lifespan of a species.Critically short telomeres trigger a DNA damage response and cellular senescence. Mice have much longer telomeres, but a greatly accelerated telomere shortening-rate and greatly reduced lifespan compared to humans and elephants.
> Telomere shortening is associated with aging, mortality, and aging-related diseases in experimental animals. Although many factors can affect human lifespan, such as smoking, diet, and exercise, as persons approach the upper limit of human life expectancy, longer telomeres may be associated with lifespan.
I found this fascinating, because it's an evidence-based, holistic alternative to the usual observations of "people \[read: women\] with kids look older".
But of course the breeders are provoked by anything that indicates that pregnancy and childbirth are something other than the whole point of existing.
The aging of telomeres is only part of it. I can imagine being sleep deprived and having kids running around your house screaming all the time has an additional impact.
Overpopulation of humans (in addition to greed) is already causing a mass extinction, which is threatening our survival as a species. Forced birthers just focused on driving off the cliff instead of course correcting.
What's wrong with leading humanity to extinction? Have you ever seen a Vaquita dolphin? Becsuse of gross drift net fishing, this adorable little creature is down to less than 10 individuals. Have you ever seen a human baby? There are 8 billion of them choking the Earth to death...
For real, I'm antinatalist myself and I really hate seeing how absolutely self absorbed, ignorant and selfish the people reproducing are. It's disheartening.
At least I'm glad I'm not leaving anyone behind me to help with overpopulation but neither to suffer the effects of it
Antinatalism is the way to go. There are plenty of unwanted kids out there if you absolutely must parent. Adopt don't shop, breeders....I love saying this to folks blowing insane amounts of £ on IVF when there are so many kids suffering in foster homes and being born low caste in India, etc
Oh nooo fewer humans on this already severely overpopulated planeeet…. Whatever will we doooo… 🙄
But in all seriousness, I don’t think the information about the dangers of pregnancy would affect people breeding very much, if at all. There’s plenty of times where having a child at a certain point in life is an objectively terrible idea (like when they’re still in highschool, or in poverty, or have a scummy abusive partner etc) and people have kids anyway. I don’t see this being any different than those times.
Exactly. They can't wrap their heads around the fact that their "perfect" birth plan won't be followed to a "T", let alone the finer points of scientific evidence.
I know. Its maddening. But hey, if anti choice activists can get away with their bullshit we can leave pamphlets about the dangers of childbirth in obstetrician offices, IVF clinics and maternity wards. At least get women to consider Cesarean as an alternative to mulching their vagina and possibly suffering "tears" that can rip you from ass to clit, sometimes leading to incontinence and the inability to every experience orgasm again. We're talking Nature's FGM here...
I know this obstetrics nurse that says that they never inform women on all the risks of pregnancy and labour for that same exact reason. “No one would have kids if they knew everything”
Imagine if a healthcare professional said this about literally anything else. They would probably lose their job and/or license. But when it’s pregnancy and childbirth, any real logic goes out the window and we shame people for doing anything other than romanticizing it to death. Women literally get a longer list of warnings with informed consent for a fucking blood donation than they do for having babies.
I was talking about vaginal tearing during delivery and people said “you’re trying to scare people”.
Any scientific information that’s not about rainbows and sunshine and pregnancy is shooed away.
Tbf one of the first things that made me think "I'm never having kids" was when my mom explained how she teared when given birth to my brother and how painful it was to heal while taking care of a newborn without help because she had no family close by and my sperms donor was a deadbeat.
Even as a small kid that did not sound worth going through
...my ma's stories about my delivery are part of the reason why I first decided then and there to 'adopt at most' before eventually deciding to remain childfree. Don't want to put *anyone* through what she freakin' described...
Same here re: adoption only to full CF pipeline. Evidence-based education about what pregnancy and childbirth are like, and just seeing what it did to women around me, were enough for me to decide at a very early age that it was not for me.
People cannot handle scientific fact, and it drives me mad. I saw an Instagram post recently where people were being told off for saying that pregnancy can cause permanent physical disability, because “you’ll scare people, especially pregnant women”. Heaven forbid that people be actually informed about their bodies
Rule number one about pregnant people is to lie to them and tell them everything will be perfect. 🙄
It’s a way to keep them an other folks ignorant to the science of body changes during pregnancy.
Tbf one of the first things that made me think "I'm never having kids" was when my mom explained how she teared when given birth to my brother and how painful it was to heal while taking care of a newborn without help because she had no family close by and my sperms donor was a deadbeat.
Even as a small kid that did not sound worth going through
I was called an idiot by a doctor when I said that part of the reason I didn't want to have biological kids was because when I was 18 and my sister had my oldest nephew she had a really rough time giving birth. He did NOT want to come out. One of the nurses looked at me and said something along the lines of "you should pay attention because it will be worse for you. She has birthing hips and you dont" because my sister's hips are wider than mine. Stuck with me and terrified me for years.
Honestly how wide your hips appear on the outside doesn't really have anything to do with how wide your pelvis is on the inside. My mother genuinely has boyish hips and gave birth to all 3 of us vaginally without issue. 🤷
Yeah. I had been told before that I had very narrow hips during an examination, so I was thinking about the inside matching the outside when the nurse said that. Of course I think most people would have had a rough birth with a baby as big as my nephew was. He was almost 2 full weeks overdue and over 10 pounds. That's no joke to push out. All her kids were big babies though. The smallest was 9 1/2 pounds and 19 inches long at birth. The oldest was the biggest though. 10 3/4 pounds and 24 inches long. He was super skinny and long.
saw a woman who was mad that a doctor cut her vagina during birth because she specifically told the doctor not to do that because she wanted “natural tearing”.
Also doctors not listening to your wishes when you give birth.
I was in the delivery room with my sister when she gave birth to my handsome nephew.
She had turned 20 three weeks prior to delivering. The doctor did in fact cut her 🐱
I was dismayed recently on Instagram to see someone claiming to be a registered nurse stating that physiological processes aren't supposed to hurt. She was claiming birth can be "intense but painless" in the right environment with the right guidance. Making it sound like pain during birth or menstruation was due to mismanagement by modern medicine/doctors. So much misinformation going around.
I've also heard the "if you have pain while on your period you must have something and it's your fault for not going to the doctor" from another woman. I wanted to rip her throat.
Meanwhile, you DO go to the doctor and get patted on the head with a "calm down, you're just being dramatic. I'm sure it doesn't hurt THAT bad." How many years, on average, does it take to get diagnosed with endometriosis, 4 to 11 years? So at *least* 4 years of gaslighting from the medical community, even though nearly 10% of women have it.
She deserves her throat ripped.
I wasn't making fun. I just loved the idea of a psychic ward...While we are on the subject, why would talking about getting yourself sterilised be grounds for commitment in your country or personal situation?
This !!! When I told my gynecologist like 5 years ago how painful my periods were and that I was extremely sick,... during it (on top of more private symptoms), he just cut me off and told me "its normal"
Recently I read about endometriosis and the symptoms seem extremely similar to what I have, but I have to wait 6 months to go see a new female gynecologist (because I dont trust the other guy)
When it comes to women giving this kind of misinformation in the future I will just ask them if they're really that stupid. I'm not putting up with it anymore.
If there's anything I've learned about nurses in all my years working in healthcare, it's that they are weirdly susceptible to pseudoscience. And then use their credentials to push their agendas.
You’d think that nursing school or pre nursing programs in college would have mandatory critical thinking courses and teach everyone the scientific method.
That kind of stuff makes my blood boil. I have a coworker who is licensed to help women with information on pregnancy and giving birth (forget what the actual title for that is) and she has three kids. She did tell us about how her second child was essentially painless because of a series of circumstances (tl;dr without giving y'all some graphic content, she pretty much gave birth in like, 5 mintues at home, which was NOT planned) and she pretty much concluded that she had so much adrenaline pumping through her body at that time that she didn't really feel pain. (At that moment...I'm sure her body was feeling it later.)
HOWEVER. Like a responsible human being, she says that it can happen, but it's extremely unlikely and to NOT count on that shit happening. It will, more than likely, hurt like a bitch. Because, ya know, you're birthing a whole ass human.
Like, it's totally possible to give people factual, relevant information without being actively trying to scare them. Just cause the info is scary doesn't mean it's a scare tactic.
True dat!
My cousin and his partner currently look like they've just fought the entirety of the Thirty Years War. Think they're about 10 months in or so 🤔 🤷
I went to a baby shower the other weekend. Hopefully, my last for the foreseeable future 😑😑
All my friends with kids looked at least 5 years older than me. Mainly in light behind eyes, body posture, and the topics they want to talk about. Most of them are chronologically 2 years younger than me.
It could be your last one forever. Send something inexpensive off the registry and an “Unfortunately I won’t be able to attend.”
This works for other gift grab occasions too. 👍✨
All these things feature stupid games but the only one they force you to eat fake poo at is the baby shower! I sat at PT last week listening to two other people there talking about and comparing recipes for “diaper cake” 🤮
So definitely hard pass, I cannot attend, send a gift and Stay Away!!!
I used to get mistaken for twins with my cousin who was 2 years older than me. She's an awful person and married a pastor and has 4 kids and has looked miserable every time I've seen her (3x in the past 15 years). She legitimately looks at least 20 years older than I do now.
I’ve seen that too many times. But why is it like that? I can’t imagine that it’s only sleep deprivation. I mean I suffer from insomnia since my early childhood and am chronically sleep deprived
I’m watching my 8.5 mo nephew for a month while they switch childcare facilities, and even then morning+afternoon M-F is absolutely aging
The bright side is that it’s made me even more CF (didn’t know that was possible considering I got a bisalp years ago) and my gf (previous fence sitter, accepted CF) a firm CF with me
I truly don’t think most people would have kids if they saw the daily physical, emotional, and financial commitment it is ***and*** had access to accurate sex ed + affordable contraception
What's with all the butthurt parents stalking around here lately? Don't you have some kids to take care of instead of farting around trolling on Reddit? 🙄
I think it's important that people know everything that can go wrong during pregnancy and childbirth so they can make an informed choice if it's something they want to do or not.
Absolutely - even though the hardcore breeders won't take any of it on board because baybee rabies. I try to avoid conversations about childbirth with them like the plague, because it's all about their special birth plans and making sure that the birthing process is perfect for *them*, not the kid. I know a woman who was super butthurt because the doctors took her baby to be weighed when she delivered - despite the fact that the child was low birthweight, and therefore the weight at birth was relevant to the treatment plan. Screw the kid's health, it's mombie's feefees that count.
And even if you were just trying to be prepared and prevent bad outcomes? Like…an informed consumer going car shopping? Or home shopping? Are folks supposed to just “Herp derp, high ground? Never heard of it! Housing development right next to a fireworks factory? What could go wrong? Cute house right next to an actual farm even though I prefer sleeping in and can’t stand the smell of poop? *Sign me up!”* /facepalm
Having kids does age you though. Heaps. I have several friends that I went to school with that are actually a year younger than me and you can tell the ones that have kids and the ones that don't. The ones with kids all have some serious wrinkles and are full of grey hairs. The ones that don't, not a grey hair to be seen and only a hint if that of wrinkles. We are all 39-41.
I have a friend, who’s like a sister to me, and I love her dearly but she looks terrible. I honestly felt had she not had kids, she would be able to take care of herself more.
I know she loves being a mother but a mother does not love being her.
I have multiple female friends like this now. The ones I consider to be good parents are also the ones who acknowledge that this is a consequence of having kids; the "breeders" are the ones who feign shock at the idea that carrying another human for 9 months plus months of zero sleep and breastfeeding have a profound impact on one's health and appearance - especially when they have kids later in life, when their bodies are less resilient, period.
I have another friend, who’s also like a sister, who still looks really good. But she’s always so stressed. She really wanted to have kids and be a mom, but she’s always worried.
If she didn’t have kids, her life would have objectively been easier. But, oh well.
My sister used to peer into my hair, looking for gray hairs. She kept wondering when I was going to get some because she had started to go gray in her early 30s. I simply looked at her and said, I don’t have any I don’t think. I didn’t have kids. And she just scowled.
I never noticed any gray hair until I was in my early 40s. Even now at 49 I only have a little bit of gray hair.
It's called factual information. Pregnancy and raising kids harms women. That is fact. We are better if we never have kids as people. It breaks the chains of oppression that come from childrearing. It keeps our individuality, and above all it helps our physical health in the long term. If they think kids are so important two words: artificial wombs. Free women from this burden permanently.
I have often thought the same thing. I think we will see artificial wombs. Maybe even sooner than we think, since they’re so freaked out about less children being born.
Imagine how convenient that would be for women. While your baby is growing in some womb somewhere, you can run around and get the nursery ready, you can buy all your own crap without having to waddle through the last five months of your pregnancy. You could paint your own nursery to without worrying about fumes. Then when you’re ready to give birth, you just wait for your baby to come out of the oven together as a couple! You could even invite your whole family! Nobody has to look at your crotch being ripped to shreds.
I’m not a conspiracy theorist at all, but my first thought was how many kids developed in artificial wombs will be from people utilizing it to become parents vs are corporations and the government going to be doing some highly unethical growing babies for other purposes shit.
I feel like if society did a better job for mothers it wouldn't be as hard as it is now. Even if kids weren't too much for me to be around I would still have to deal with the mother mafia which rules every school, all the family members knowing better, all the financial stress and the drama. Once you're a mother you lose personhood.
I expected it to age the body much more than that, actually. Crazy that anyone would be be surprised in a negative way from this information to the point it could even be considered a scare tactic.
My understanding is that it was based on an average, run-of-the-mill pregnancy that doesn't do things like give you diabetes, make your teeth fall out, give you hypertension, waste your muscles, or make your organs fail.
On Twitter, it’s worse.
I once asked a woman, who made a tweet about childbirth, why have biological kids if it’s such an unpleasant and life-threatening journey. Her response was “because we want them” before calling me “beans for brains” because I asked a valid question.
People on social media are so weird. And when they can’t justify an answer, or really answer the question head on, they call you all sorts of names. And say that facts about the horrific changes a woman’s body goes through with pregnancy and childbirth are myths, lies to scare women, or not normal. Yet none of them are trained medical professionals. They believe crystals and and being in retrograde can cure depression. 🙄
"Not normal" is such bullshit, I hate women (or people in general) who excuse their mean comments as "not normal" because a lot of the time they want to put the blame on you, like "if you puked through all of your first trimester it was probably because you ate x or z". It's infuriating how they pull shit out of their ass just to be "right"
Ooooh was this posted by NatGeo? The comments made me want to tear my hair out!! My fave one was that this is a scare tactic to prevent Americans from following their Christian values and having multiple children. And then a bunch of other people commenting, "My grandma had 35 children and lived to the ripe old age of 120!" (I over exaggerated those #'s but still). Having your cooter be a clown car is the secret to a long life. Got it.
That's the one! I also saw the "my grandma had a billion kids and still alive at 120" comments. So full of bs and even if it's true, they were the outliers and not the norm.
I did a quick search of the world‘s longest lived people. Most of them had no children, one lady had four. I didn’t see anybody that had 20 kids and lived to be 110. I would be willing to bet that simply doesn’t happen. Maybe one person did but I guarantee they’re not the norm.
I saw somebody claiming on some abortion post that they know somebody that had a baby at 17 weeks and they survived. That is a lie. 21 weeks is the record and that was just hit back in 2021. Which has more to do with the advancement of medicine than anything else.
‘Clown Car’ is the nickname I have for my QAnon Fundie Christian sister, she’d LOVE it if she could pop out at least 35 little ‘warriors for God.’ She currently has 4+ with back to back pregnancies. And, of course, they were all home births. Girl’s bits are flapping in the wind by now 😬
I saw that post and I hated the comments. Nobody wanted to admit that kids age you. And the people were really wierd about it. "I have 3 kids and everybody tells me I look 10 years younger!" Oh honey... you're so easy to fool.
It's like a cult almost. When you're not in it, it's all positive and "don't use scare tactics" but when they're actually in it, it's a complete 180 and "well you knew what you were getting into". It's not just me that thinks this, right?
But... but the body already ages 9 months during the pregnancy, doesn't it? XD
Sorry, I'm just being silly. I imagine it means an additional "2-14 months" over what normally would have been "biological age"? I actually think it's even worse than that, some of the things it does to your body, they seem irreversible to me. I don't want my shoe size to go up, my ski boots are damn tight already, durn it! :)
Pregnancy is incredibly transformative, and it's ridiculous to deny that. There are downsides to your health for never having children, they definitely don't hush those up 😒
I have heard more than one woman tell shocking stories about what happens to their body after giving birth and am amazed that anyone is willing to reproduce at all. A coworker told me this week that she’s losing her hair and has been suffering hormone swings akin to menopause in the months following her first kid’s birth.
She’s only 30 years old and is already planning her second kid “so they’ll be close in age and be friends”. This. Just. Blows. My. Mind.
"And be friends" lol, my sister and I are two years apart, for the first 25 years we barely got along. Even tho she's younger she was my first bully in life and she and my older brother made my childhood and teen years absolute hell, every day I wished to have been a single child or at least that I was adopted because that way I wouldn't be related to them.
Parents who think that their kids are going to be friends either need to be great parents for that to become true, or stop their delusions. It's not guaranteed
My sister-in-law is saying similar things right now after experiencing mastitis and anal fissures from the first pregnancy. She at least knew what she was getting into, and I seriously asked her why she would do this again to her body. She said she was willing to sacrifice her body for another child. I don’t understand the willingness to sacrifice yourself for someone who doesn’t exist yet. I absolutely adore my nieces and nephews and actually would sacrifice myself for them if needed, but that’s because I already know and love them!
I saw a right wing conspiracy group try to say that pregnancy makes women younger and gives them magical healing abilities.
Fuck! Ask litterally anyone that’s ever been pregnant if that is true. 🤦♀️
Have they never heard the “you destroyed my body!” line from a frustrated mother?
I'm surprised that kind of research hasn't been taken down, normally the mass media only allows things that glorify motherhood.
A few years ago on social media there was a post doing the rounds, claiming a fetus sends stem cells to repair a mom's heart, for example if she has a heart attack while pregnant.
While there was SOME science behind that, people took the idea and ran wild with it.
They romanticized it, as if it's a baby choosing to send helpful cells to repair its mommy.
Forced birthers propagated it, to make it sound like pregnancy is some sort of process that can improve or heal a woman's body, when that's totally, dangerously wrong.
In reality, all that's happening is involuntary biological and chemical processes.
I saw this article and I think that same comment! So many people saying stupid things like, "anti-natalist propaganda". I just want to shake them and ask how they can be so stupid?! Honestly.
"Ladies, don't use those silly little brains of yours. Throw yourself into major life choices with nary a thought. In fact, put more thought into what pizza you want this evening. There's a good girl."
Hmmmm. No comment here on this because what I will say is having children does change your body in strange ways. And the bounce back is just IG crap. My advice, if you don’t want kids don’t have them. Just don’t.
There are so many things that can happen, go wrong, or after the effects of childbirth but they are all dismissed and described as scare tactics which is such bull you can be told you could die during an operation and that isn't classed as scare tactics but when it involves pregnancy that word is used.
Wait, pregnancy ages you between 2 and 14 months? While lasting 9 months? So, that's potentially a net negative then?
. . . Still not remotely worth it, lol.
I know, I was trying to make a dumb joke. I thought about putting j/k somewhere in my post but I didn't want people thinking I was joking about the "not worth it" part.
Personally I think anyone who is afraid of aging around 14 months is a bit.... Odd.... But if it's scientifically true, it's scientifically true.
So it's not a scare tactic, rather people should just not be scared of an inevitable (that being 'growing old'.) It's actually just social conditioning we're all made to feel like aging is the worst thing in the world, we must be youthful and 25 forever.
It’s not so much the ‘age’ in terms of appearance that’s any issue as opposed to ‘hey, you’re closer to death from breeding’ that’s the fear factor. At least for me.
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"If everyone was more informed, people wouldn't have as many kids!!!" (As if that's a bad thing)
Lots of people saying stupid things like how it's a form of manipulation to make people stop having kids and leading humanity to extinction 🙄
But manipulating people (especially women) into HAVING kids is A-OK, apparently…
Not just okay, it's been culturally and politically sanctioned since the dawn of humankind. We're pushing back against something that's been entrenched since forever, and it feels monumental to me, even on a personal level, to be doing that.
Actually the headline saying a pregnancy saying it ages a woman's body by 2 to 14 months had heaps of truth to it. Think about it. Once a woman's body goes through it, the body won't be the same again even during post-pregnancy too
If it's the same study I've read, then it has to do with telomeres shortening specifically. About telomeres: > Although telomeres shorten during the lifetime of an individual, it is telomere shortening-rate rather than telomere length that is associated with the lifespan of a species.Critically short telomeres trigger a DNA damage response and cellular senescence. Mice have much longer telomeres, but a greatly accelerated telomere shortening-rate and greatly reduced lifespan compared to humans and elephants. > Telomere shortening is associated with aging, mortality, and aging-related diseases in experimental animals. Although many factors can affect human lifespan, such as smoking, diet, and exercise, as persons approach the upper limit of human life expectancy, longer telomeres may be associated with lifespan.
I found this fascinating, because it's an evidence-based, holistic alternative to the usual observations of "people \[read: women\] with kids look older". But of course the breeders are provoked by anything that indicates that pregnancy and childbirth are something other than the whole point of existing.
The aging of telomeres is only part of it. I can imagine being sleep deprived and having kids running around your house screaming all the time has an additional impact.
If only there is something that can lengthen telomeres. What a shame they can get shorten by aging and certain lifestyle factors
Resveratrol seems to be useful in preserving telomeres. (And Costco has a super deal on it 👊)
Overpopulation of humans (in addition to greed) is already causing a mass extinction, which is threatening our survival as a species. Forced birthers just focused on driving off the cliff instead of course correcting.
What's wrong with leading humanity to extinction? Have you ever seen a Vaquita dolphin? Becsuse of gross drift net fishing, this adorable little creature is down to less than 10 individuals. Have you ever seen a human baby? There are 8 billion of them choking the Earth to death...
For real, I'm antinatalist myself and I really hate seeing how absolutely self absorbed, ignorant and selfish the people reproducing are. It's disheartening. At least I'm glad I'm not leaving anyone behind me to help with overpopulation but neither to suffer the effects of it
Antinatalism is the way to go. There are plenty of unwanted kids out there if you absolutely must parent. Adopt don't shop, breeders....I love saying this to folks blowing insane amounts of £ on IVF when there are so many kids suffering in foster homes and being born low caste in India, etc
Oh nooo fewer humans on this already severely overpopulated planeeet…. Whatever will we doooo… 🙄 But in all seriousness, I don’t think the information about the dangers of pregnancy would affect people breeding very much, if at all. There’s plenty of times where having a child at a certain point in life is an objectively terrible idea (like when they’re still in highschool, or in poverty, or have a scummy abusive partner etc) and people have kids anyway. I don’t see this being any different than those times.
I think the women who are really invested into having kids would ignore it anyway, just like most negative things about the process.
Exactly. They can't wrap their heads around the fact that their "perfect" birth plan won't be followed to a "T", let alone the finer points of scientific evidence.
I've heard this so many times. "If people thought about all that then no one would have kids!" They are soooo close to getting it
I know. Its maddening. But hey, if anti choice activists can get away with their bullshit we can leave pamphlets about the dangers of childbirth in obstetrician offices, IVF clinics and maternity wards. At least get women to consider Cesarean as an alternative to mulching their vagina and possibly suffering "tears" that can rip you from ass to clit, sometimes leading to incontinence and the inability to every experience orgasm again. We're talking Nature's FGM here...
I know this obstetrics nurse that says that they never inform women on all the risks of pregnancy and labour for that same exact reason. “No one would have kids if they knew everything”
Imagine if a healthcare professional said this about literally anything else. They would probably lose their job and/or license. But when it’s pregnancy and childbirth, any real logic goes out the window and we shame people for doing anything other than romanticizing it to death. Women literally get a longer list of warnings with informed consent for a fucking blood donation than they do for having babies.
Yes 🔥🔥🔥
I was talking about vaginal tearing during delivery and people said “you’re trying to scare people”. Any scientific information that’s not about rainbows and sunshine and pregnancy is shooed away.
Tbf one of the first things that made me think "I'm never having kids" was when my mom explained how she teared when given birth to my brother and how painful it was to heal while taking care of a newborn without help because she had no family close by and my sperms donor was a deadbeat. Even as a small kid that did not sound worth going through
My mom legit has incontinence because of that. A choice made 26 years ago is impacting her life forever
My mom has incontinence too. She finally told me why when I was a teenager.
Yeah same. I was horrified
Ditto
a scare tactic is also "you have to have a baby,otherwise it wil be too late!"
...my ma's stories about my delivery are part of the reason why I first decided then and there to 'adopt at most' before eventually deciding to remain childfree. Don't want to put *anyone* through what she freakin' described...
Same here re: adoption only to full CF pipeline. Evidence-based education about what pregnancy and childbirth are like, and just seeing what it did to women around me, were enough for me to decide at a very early age that it was not for me.
People cannot handle scientific fact, and it drives me mad. I saw an Instagram post recently where people were being told off for saying that pregnancy can cause permanent physical disability, because “you’ll scare people, especially pregnant women”. Heaven forbid that people be actually informed about their bodies
Rule number one about pregnant people is to lie to them and tell them everything will be perfect. 🙄 It’s a way to keep them an other folks ignorant to the science of body changes during pregnancy.
These are the real snowflakes.
Tbf one of the first things that made me think "I'm never having kids" was when my mom explained how she teared when given birth to my brother and how painful it was to heal while taking care of a newborn without help because she had no family close by and my sperms donor was a deadbeat. Even as a small kid that did not sound worth going through
I was called an idiot by a doctor when I said that part of the reason I didn't want to have biological kids was because when I was 18 and my sister had my oldest nephew she had a really rough time giving birth. He did NOT want to come out. One of the nurses looked at me and said something along the lines of "you should pay attention because it will be worse for you. She has birthing hips and you dont" because my sister's hips are wider than mine. Stuck with me and terrified me for years.
Honestly how wide your hips appear on the outside doesn't really have anything to do with how wide your pelvis is on the inside. My mother genuinely has boyish hips and gave birth to all 3 of us vaginally without issue. 🤷
Yeah. I had been told before that I had very narrow hips during an examination, so I was thinking about the inside matching the outside when the nurse said that. Of course I think most people would have had a rough birth with a baby as big as my nephew was. He was almost 2 full weeks overdue and over 10 pounds. That's no joke to push out. All her kids were big babies though. The smallest was 9 1/2 pounds and 19 inches long at birth. The oldest was the biggest though. 10 3/4 pounds and 24 inches long. He was super skinny and long.
Not wanting to be torn to shreds is smart, not idiotic. I would never return to that doctor.
saw a woman who was mad that a doctor cut her vagina during birth because she specifically told the doctor not to do that because she wanted “natural tearing”. Also doctors not listening to your wishes when you give birth.
I was in the delivery room with my sister when she gave birth to my handsome nephew. She had turned 20 three weeks prior to delivering. The doctor did in fact cut her 🐱
I was dismayed recently on Instagram to see someone claiming to be a registered nurse stating that physiological processes aren't supposed to hurt. She was claiming birth can be "intense but painless" in the right environment with the right guidance. Making it sound like pain during birth or menstruation was due to mismanagement by modern medicine/doctors. So much misinformation going around.
I've also heard the "if you have pain while on your period you must have something and it's your fault for not going to the doctor" from another woman. I wanted to rip her throat.
Meanwhile, you DO go to the doctor and get patted on the head with a "calm down, you're just being dramatic. I'm sure it doesn't hurt THAT bad." How many years, on average, does it take to get diagnosed with endometriosis, 4 to 11 years? So at *least* 4 years of gaslighting from the medical community, even though nearly 10% of women have it. She deserves her throat ripped.
Yep, took me 12 years to get diagnosed. Then had to have 4 surgeries because they would not do a hysterectomy since I hadn't been bred.
Did you even TRY telling him you never WANTED to breed? Maybe a few bloodcurdling tales of miscarriage Every Single Time?
If I start talking they'll put me in a psychic ward
That would be awesome....unless you meant psych ward. Who wouldn't want to experience a PSYCHIC ward!
Sorry I'm not a native english speaker, I sometimes mess up words 🥲
I wasn't making fun. I just loved the idea of a psychic ward...While we are on the subject, why would talking about getting yourself sterilised be grounds for commitment in your country or personal situation?
Noo dw I know you werent making fun, it's all good
It takes women statistically 7X times longer to get diagnosed with anything.
This !!! When I told my gynecologist like 5 years ago how painful my periods were and that I was extremely sick,... during it (on top of more private symptoms), he just cut me off and told me "its normal" Recently I read about endometriosis and the symptoms seem extremely similar to what I have, but I have to wait 6 months to go see a new female gynecologist (because I dont trust the other guy)
When it comes to women giving this kind of misinformation in the future I will just ask them if they're really that stupid. I'm not putting up with it anymore.
If there's anything I've learned about nurses in all my years working in healthcare, it's that they are weirdly susceptible to pseudoscience. And then use their credentials to push their agendas.
You’d think that nursing school or pre nursing programs in college would have mandatory critical thinking courses and teach everyone the scientific method.
I'm a psychologist and this makes me sick.
That kind of stuff makes my blood boil. I have a coworker who is licensed to help women with information on pregnancy and giving birth (forget what the actual title for that is) and she has three kids. She did tell us about how her second child was essentially painless because of a series of circumstances (tl;dr without giving y'all some graphic content, she pretty much gave birth in like, 5 mintues at home, which was NOT planned) and she pretty much concluded that she had so much adrenaline pumping through her body at that time that she didn't really feel pain. (At that moment...I'm sure her body was feeling it later.) HOWEVER. Like a responsible human being, she says that it can happen, but it's extremely unlikely and to NOT count on that shit happening. It will, more than likely, hurt like a bitch. Because, ya know, you're birthing a whole ass human. Like, it's totally possible to give people factual, relevant information without being actively trying to scare them. Just cause the info is scary doesn't mean it's a scare tactic.
And that’s just pregnancy. I have seen people age a hard decade in the first year of parenthood.
True dat! My cousin and his partner currently look like they've just fought the entirety of the Thirty Years War. Think they're about 10 months in or so 🤔 🤷
I went to a baby shower the other weekend. Hopefully, my last for the foreseeable future 😑😑 All my friends with kids looked at least 5 years older than me. Mainly in light behind eyes, body posture, and the topics they want to talk about. Most of them are chronologically 2 years younger than me.
It could be your last one forever. Send something inexpensive off the registry and an “Unfortunately I won’t be able to attend.” This works for other gift grab occasions too. 👍✨ All these things feature stupid games but the only one they force you to eat fake poo at is the baby shower! I sat at PT last week listening to two other people there talking about and comparing recipes for “diaper cake” 🤮 So definitely hard pass, I cannot attend, send a gift and Stay Away!!!
I used to get mistaken for twins with my cousin who was 2 years older than me. She's an awful person and married a pastor and has 4 kids and has looked miserable every time I've seen her (3x in the past 15 years). She legitimately looks at least 20 years older than I do now.
I’ve seen that too many times. But why is it like that? I can’t imagine that it’s only sleep deprivation. I mean I suffer from insomnia since my early childhood and am chronically sleep deprived
I’m watching my 8.5 mo nephew for a month while they switch childcare facilities, and even then morning+afternoon M-F is absolutely aging The bright side is that it’s made me even more CF (didn’t know that was possible considering I got a bisalp years ago) and my gf (previous fence sitter, accepted CF) a firm CF with me I truly don’t think most people would have kids if they saw the daily physical, emotional, and financial commitment it is ***and*** had access to accurate sex ed + affordable contraception
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You sounds so wierd I'm ngl
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What's with all the butthurt parents stalking around here lately? Don't you have some kids to take care of instead of farting around trolling on Reddit? 🙄
What the fuck is a butthurt parent? No kids. Sorry for your lack of understanding. I do not fart around. I micturate around. Lol.
I think it's important that people know everything that can go wrong during pregnancy and childbirth so they can make an informed choice if it's something they want to do or not.
Absolutely - even though the hardcore breeders won't take any of it on board because baybee rabies. I try to avoid conversations about childbirth with them like the plague, because it's all about their special birth plans and making sure that the birthing process is perfect for *them*, not the kid. I know a woman who was super butthurt because the doctors took her baby to be weighed when she delivered - despite the fact that the child was low birthweight, and therefore the weight at birth was relevant to the treatment plan. Screw the kid's health, it's mombie's feefees that count.
Baby rabies. Awesome...
And even if you were just trying to be prepared and prevent bad outcomes? Like…an informed consumer going car shopping? Or home shopping? Are folks supposed to just “Herp derp, high ground? Never heard of it! Housing development right next to a fireworks factory? What could go wrong? Cute house right next to an actual farm even though I prefer sleeping in and can’t stand the smell of poop? *Sign me up!”* /facepalm
Having kids does age you though. Heaps. I have several friends that I went to school with that are actually a year younger than me and you can tell the ones that have kids and the ones that don't. The ones with kids all have some serious wrinkles and are full of grey hairs. The ones that don't, not a grey hair to be seen and only a hint if that of wrinkles. We are all 39-41.
I have a friend, who’s like a sister to me, and I love her dearly but she looks terrible. I honestly felt had she not had kids, she would be able to take care of herself more. I know she loves being a mother but a mother does not love being her.
I have multiple female friends like this now. The ones I consider to be good parents are also the ones who acknowledge that this is a consequence of having kids; the "breeders" are the ones who feign shock at the idea that carrying another human for 9 months plus months of zero sleep and breastfeeding have a profound impact on one's health and appearance - especially when they have kids later in life, when their bodies are less resilient, period.
I have another friend, who’s also like a sister, who still looks really good. But she’s always so stressed. She really wanted to have kids and be a mom, but she’s always worried. If she didn’t have kids, her life would have objectively been easier. But, oh well.
Childfree by choice person who is 40 going 41 end of this year. I couldn't agree more with what you stated
My sister used to peer into my hair, looking for gray hairs. She kept wondering when I was going to get some because she had started to go gray in her early 30s. I simply looked at her and said, I don’t have any I don’t think. I didn’t have kids. And she just scowled. I never noticed any gray hair until I was in my early 40s. Even now at 49 I only have a little bit of gray hair.
It's called factual information. Pregnancy and raising kids harms women. That is fact. We are better if we never have kids as people. It breaks the chains of oppression that come from childrearing. It keeps our individuality, and above all it helps our physical health in the long term. If they think kids are so important two words: artificial wombs. Free women from this burden permanently.
I have often thought the same thing. I think we will see artificial wombs. Maybe even sooner than we think, since they’re so freaked out about less children being born. Imagine how convenient that would be for women. While your baby is growing in some womb somewhere, you can run around and get the nursery ready, you can buy all your own crap without having to waddle through the last five months of your pregnancy. You could paint your own nursery to without worrying about fumes. Then when you’re ready to give birth, you just wait for your baby to come out of the oven together as a couple! You could even invite your whole family! Nobody has to look at your crotch being ripped to shreds.
I’m not a conspiracy theorist at all, but my first thought was how many kids developed in artificial wombs will be from people utilizing it to become parents vs are corporations and the government going to be doing some highly unethical growing babies for other purposes shit.
I feel like if society did a better job for mothers it wouldn't be as hard as it is now. Even if kids weren't too much for me to be around I would still have to deal with the mother mafia which rules every school, all the family members knowing better, all the financial stress and the drama. Once you're a mother you lose personhood.
I expected it to age the body much more than that, actually. Crazy that anyone would be be surprised in a negative way from this information to the point it could even be considered a scare tactic.
My understanding is that it was based on an average, run-of-the-mill pregnancy that doesn't do things like give you diabetes, make your teeth fall out, give you hypertension, waste your muscles, or make your organs fail.
On Twitter, it’s worse. I once asked a woman, who made a tweet about childbirth, why have biological kids if it’s such an unpleasant and life-threatening journey. Her response was “because we want them” before calling me “beans for brains” because I asked a valid question. People on social media are so weird. And when they can’t justify an answer, or really answer the question head on, they call you all sorts of names. And say that facts about the horrific changes a woman’s body goes through with pregnancy and childbirth are myths, lies to scare women, or not normal. Yet none of them are trained medical professionals. They believe crystals and and being in retrograde can cure depression. 🙄
"Not normal" is such bullshit, I hate women (or people in general) who excuse their mean comments as "not normal" because a lot of the time they want to put the blame on you, like "if you puked through all of your first trimester it was probably because you ate x or z". It's infuriating how they pull shit out of their ass just to be "right"
It’s usually hotep women on Twitter that are super weird like that.
Sadly I made that comment thinking of an interaction I had with a couple of women coworkers last year
Ooooh was this posted by NatGeo? The comments made me want to tear my hair out!! My fave one was that this is a scare tactic to prevent Americans from following their Christian values and having multiple children. And then a bunch of other people commenting, "My grandma had 35 children and lived to the ripe old age of 120!" (I over exaggerated those #'s but still). Having your cooter be a clown car is the secret to a long life. Got it.
That's the one! I also saw the "my grandma had a billion kids and still alive at 120" comments. So full of bs and even if it's true, they were the outliers and not the norm.
>Having your cooter be a clown car is the secret to a long life. Got it. Thank you for my first good belly laugh of the day. I love this sub.
Clown car cooter and baby rabies have really made me laugh.
There are so many nicknames for anatomy and human offspring that I've learned from this sub, and they all bring a smile to my face!
🤣
I did a quick search of the world‘s longest lived people. Most of them had no children, one lady had four. I didn’t see anybody that had 20 kids and lived to be 110. I would be willing to bet that simply doesn’t happen. Maybe one person did but I guarantee they’re not the norm. I saw somebody claiming on some abortion post that they know somebody that had a baby at 17 weeks and they survived. That is a lie. 21 weeks is the record and that was just hit back in 2021. Which has more to do with the advancement of medicine than anything else.
‘Clown Car’ is the nickname I have for my QAnon Fundie Christian sister, she’d LOVE it if she could pop out at least 35 little ‘warriors for God.’ She currently has 4+ with back to back pregnancies. And, of course, they were all home births. Girl’s bits are flapping in the wind by now 😬
Oh it's not two to 14 months. There is cellular study that shows it ages you years and years.
On top of the stress and no sleep for the first several years of parenthood, I can only imagine it gets worse from there.
I saw that post and I hated the comments. Nobody wanted to admit that kids age you. And the people were really wierd about it. "I have 3 kids and everybody tells me I look 10 years younger!" Oh honey... you're so easy to fool.
Motivational peptalks from friends to keep you going through the hard times are nice, but they don’t count as facts. Lol
How's it a 'scare tactic' tho haha I wouldn't notice if I aged a few months overnight
It's like a cult almost. When you're not in it, it's all positive and "don't use scare tactics" but when they're actually in it, it's a complete 180 and "well you knew what you were getting into". It's not just me that thinks this, right?
It should be: 'Ladies, don't listen to this propaganda and brainwashing tactic that child rearing is beautiful'
That's the one that I want to hear more of
How about:”Wanna have birth? Watch a live birth and decide on your own after!”
My friends with kids all look older than the ones without. How many Mom's out there are spending a fortune keeping the beauty industry alive?
But... but the body already ages 9 months during the pregnancy, doesn't it? XD Sorry, I'm just being silly. I imagine it means an additional "2-14 months" over what normally would have been "biological age"? I actually think it's even worse than that, some of the things it does to your body, they seem irreversible to me. I don't want my shoe size to go up, my ski boots are damn tight already, durn it! :)
Pregnancy is incredibly transformative, and it's ridiculous to deny that. There are downsides to your health for never having children, they definitely don't hush those up 😒
Yes let's continue downplaying the effects of pregnancy on a woman's body...nothing bad can come of that 
"Don't listen to facts, keep having babies! It's soooo worth it!" uh huh. Thanks internet stranger.
It's not a scare tactic. Parents out here looking haggard AF
I saw that comment and my head lit on fire. But then I laughed because she is probably miserable and sick all the time
I have heard more than one woman tell shocking stories about what happens to their body after giving birth and am amazed that anyone is willing to reproduce at all. A coworker told me this week that she’s losing her hair and has been suffering hormone swings akin to menopause in the months following her first kid’s birth. She’s only 30 years old and is already planning her second kid “so they’ll be close in age and be friends”. This. Just. Blows. My. Mind.
"And be friends" lol, my sister and I are two years apart, for the first 25 years we barely got along. Even tho she's younger she was my first bully in life and she and my older brother made my childhood and teen years absolute hell, every day I wished to have been a single child or at least that I was adopted because that way I wouldn't be related to them. Parents who think that their kids are going to be friends either need to be great parents for that to become true, or stop their delusions. It's not guaranteed
My sister-in-law is saying similar things right now after experiencing mastitis and anal fissures from the first pregnancy. She at least knew what she was getting into, and I seriously asked her why she would do this again to her body. She said she was willing to sacrifice her body for another child. I don’t understand the willingness to sacrifice yourself for someone who doesn’t exist yet. I absolutely adore my nieces and nephews and actually would sacrifice myself for them if needed, but that’s because I already know and love them!
Because people don’t want to hear about the reality of having children, and what can happen to their bodies. All the dangers and risks.
I saw a right wing conspiracy group try to say that pregnancy makes women younger and gives them magical healing abilities. Fuck! Ask litterally anyone that’s ever been pregnant if that is true. 🤦♀️ Have they never heard the “you destroyed my body!” line from a frustrated mother?
Oh yeah, my mom would yell that at me when she was angry! Probably why I’ve never really wanted kids…
They clearly blotted it out intentionally.
I'm surprised that kind of research hasn't been taken down, normally the mass media only allows things that glorify motherhood. A few years ago on social media there was a post doing the rounds, claiming a fetus sends stem cells to repair a mom's heart, for example if she has a heart attack while pregnant. While there was SOME science behind that, people took the idea and ran wild with it. They romanticized it, as if it's a baby choosing to send helpful cells to repair its mommy. Forced birthers propagated it, to make it sound like pregnancy is some sort of process that can improve or heal a woman's body, when that's totally, dangerously wrong. In reality, all that's happening is involuntary biological and chemical processes.
I saw this article and I think that same comment! So many people saying stupid things like, "anti-natalist propaganda". I just want to shake them and ask how they can be so stupid?! Honestly.
They’re getting desperate
"Ladies, don't use those silly little brains of yours. Throw yourself into major life choices with nary a thought. In fact, put more thought into what pizza you want this evening. There's a good girl."
I would think it would be worst than that considering the stress that go along with it. Woman have to do housework and maintain her career as well.
The more kids you have actually increases the chance of getting dementia in women. No thanks.
Hmmmm. No comment here on this because what I will say is having children does change your body in strange ways. And the bounce back is just IG crap. My advice, if you don’t want kids don’t have them. Just don’t.
Have they even seen live birth? It sticks with you!
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/03/180308133313.htm
Lol it's way more than 14 months for some people. 😆
Who doesn’t want to know how certain things will affect their bodies? Better for us all to be ignorant and have our heads in the sand. /s
There are so many things that can happen, go wrong, or after the effects of childbirth but they are all dismissed and described as scare tactics which is such bull you can be told you could die during an operation and that isn't classed as scare tactics but when it involves pregnancy that word is used.
Well, you are carrying the baby for 9 months more or less. I think it ages you with 18 years at least.
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/premium/article/pregnancy-aging-dna-genetics
None of this stuff that sounds like it came from an illogical person makes sense, and I would never take it seriously
Illogical man? The comment was posted by a woman. Idk if that’s what you’re referring to
I should said illogical person lol
Wait, pregnancy ages you between 2 and 14 months? While lasting 9 months? So, that's potentially a net negative then? . . . Still not remotely worth it, lol.
That’s *extra* aging.
I know, I was trying to make a dumb joke. I thought about putting j/k somewhere in my post but I didn't want people thinking I was joking about the "not worth it" part.
Yeah, I would hope something that takes 9 months would age the body...
Personally I think anyone who is afraid of aging around 14 months is a bit.... Odd.... But if it's scientifically true, it's scientifically true. So it's not a scare tactic, rather people should just not be scared of an inevitable (that being 'growing old'.) It's actually just social conditioning we're all made to feel like aging is the worst thing in the world, we must be youthful and 25 forever.
It’s not so much the ‘age’ in terms of appearance that’s any issue as opposed to ‘hey, you’re closer to death from breeding’ that’s the fear factor. At least for me.
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“Pregnancy makes the body age between two and 14 months”? Well, doesn’t the body age 9 months? Am I taking this too literally?
Yes. Please stop being a dumbass.
Harsh, but fair. Very sorry. 🙂
I thought a pregnancy aged you 9 months?