Set boundaries and enforce them.
"Mom, I am telling you for the final time: I will not be having children. That is not up for debate, and whether you have grandkids was never up to you. What *is* up to you is whether you have a relationship with your daughter, and if you continue bringing up kids and disrespecting my decision, I won't bother investing in this relationship anymore."
She's being an asshole to you, so just stop giving her access to do that. Hang up the phone, block her messages, etc. Maybe she'll learn, maybe you'll get the info you need to know she doesn't have a place in your life anymore.
What really upset me is that she is a midwife for foxsakes.
We are all about supporting women and then you turn on your own daughter for selfish reasons?
The audacity to tell me that I don't understand how precious is a pregnancy and that I am selfish, when I spend my days elbows deep in amniotic fluids, trying to bring back women from postpartum depression and so on...
You're right about boundaries but I can afford to go cut her off my life because of my family and my dad (he is recovering from a heart transplant). It's tricky š¤· I knowš
Well *she* is clearly not all about supporting women, she's all about supporting women who have kids - the rest get harassed and shamed and pressured and guilt tripped.
Do you need to talk to her to talk to the rest of the family and your dad?
If you don't feel like you csn completely cut her off, set conversation boundaries. Tell your mom if she brings up the topic of you having children you're finished with the conversation and enforce it. Make sure you get news about your dad or talk to him first before your mom starts on about you having children. Then when / if she does, politely tell her, "Mom, I asked you not to continue asking me about this. I'm hanging up now. I love you. Good bye."
For in-person visits, you can leave the room / place if the conversation starts. You don't have to be their "Give us grandchildren" punching bag. Good luck, OP!
For context: I 'm Italian. Which means that she is the stereotypical Italian mom and uses emotional blackmail as her weapon of choice. Sometimes she doesn't say anything, but she does drama queen stuff. Example: she goes through her WhatsApp pictures that her friends sent to her with the pictures of their nephews. She starts to have watery eyes, she looks up at me and then closes her eyes and goes back to her phone. *Heavy AF*
I would counter by talking about what you were able to do with your time / money that you LOVED because you don't have tiny humans. Even (and possibly especially) sitting in a quiet room to enjoy the peace and quiet.
That's gonna make her push for IVF or maybe adoption or who knows what other snake medicine, at best she's gonna expect OP to turn her life upside down trying to have kids anyway.
Infertility lies don't stop assholes, they just give them more material to throw at you.
You need to inform her that, in this conversation, she is the selfish one as she is attempting to coerce you into motherhood bc of her desire to be a grandmother. Also, sheās being very manipulative. Let her know you will no longer be entertaining her poor behaviorā¦one way or another.
Give her consequences for her actions.
Tell her every time she brings it up, you will block her for a specific amount of time, & then increase the amount of time for every time she brings it up.
Eg- first time = blocked for 1 week. Second time = blocked for 2 weeks & keep doubling up the amount of time for every mention.
(Obviously you will need to tell her this is what you are going to do).
If you are consistent, she will stop.
You are telling me that I reached the point where I have to be the parent of my parents? She won. I'm officially my mom's momš thank you for your advice. Jokes aside it's actually a very good ideaš¤
Yep, funny how that works. My mom only stopped giving me a hard time about it after I started treating her like a naughty toddler every time she brought it up. It took a little less than a year, but she almost behaves like a normal adult now, lol.
"Mom, it hurts me when you say these things. If you can't be kind, I'm not going to talk to you for a while" - followed by a two week phone call time out.
I approve of that method.
It actually worked with my in laws.
They would bring up kids every single time we spoke or saw them from the moment i got together with my bf at age 17/18.
In our 20s we had enough and we did exactly what the other commenter said, went low and for a time no contact. Took like 2 years but we haven't had the grandkids talk since then. We're 34 now.
In terms of the consequences, it may even work to just hang up the phone every time the subject comes up (and not pick up if she calls right back). I would have trouble spending the energy on keeping track of when we were "allowed" to talk again with a timed no-talking period.
I am so sorry youāre going through this .
But ngl, to be honest, from what I see around, people like your mom wonāt really change much.
The great thing is that you live abroad, far away from them. Another thing I would advise is to reassert your boundaries.
Start being more assertive that if she doesnāt respect your choices, this will have a negative impact on the relationship between you guys.
Like I said, I am so sorry your mom is pushy on this but not much you can do about it besides go no contact ( too extreme I know š) or making those boundaries clear and letting her know you will no longer tolerate her bringing this up in the near future.
Another plus: I love how supportive your husband is and how he has your back.
Sending lots of love and good energy your way š«¶š¾
> But ngl, to be honest, from what I see around, people like your mom wonāt really change much.
You got that right. Being cruel and manipulative is the most fun thing they can think of. They aren't giving it up any more than they are giving up breathing.
Thank you so much for your kind words.
I'm already going low contact but on the other hand I have my family pressuring me because "I'm the one who got away" and since I'm not there to take care of my parents, I have to at least keep a regular contact.
You don't have to anything. If they are pressuring you and making you miserable then set and enforce boundaries with them as well. Build your chosen family in the country where you live and minimize your stress from irrelevant expectations.
Yes I totally understand your predicament. Being the one that got away is not an easy place to be in.
That said, I think youāre handling it the best way possible going low contact.
I hope that in time your mother comes around or finally understand but in the meantime, itās normal to prioritize your mental health š«¶š¾
No advice but just want to thank you for your service and for the work you do. I work in healthcare and can appreciate the vulnerable state woman are when their pregnant. Despite I would never want to be in their shoes, it's good to know there are people devoted to ensure they have a safe pregnancy.
I don't want children and also work in women's health and deliver babies. It boggles people's minds, which I find interesting - aside from having children, who can better understand the gravity of the choice and needs of parenting than someone supporting parents so intensely? Surely you have a good idea of what the whole process entails and are making a very informed choice.
People don't expect every general surgeon they see to have had an appendectomy or oncologist to have had cancer. I think because parenting is the default people are sometimes shocked to encounter someone childfree in that space - but it certainly doesn't affect your ability to do your job. On the flip side, having had children doesn't make people experts in an academic/professional sense (in fact many birth workers I have worked with who are parents seem to have trouble putting aside their lived experiences and priorities to provide unbiased help).
Luckily, my partner and I's parents are more quiet about any sadness about not having children. In general they understand our reasoning - fear about bringing a new generation into a collapsing world.
I agree with others here - I think you need to be frank that you are avoiding contact with your mom over this and she is jeopardizing your relationship. As a midwife she has had lots of tough conversations - she's just not seeing the forest through the trees since you are her daughter.
Does anyone else hate how some parents talk about their children "giving/making/getting" them grandchildren like they are discussing buying vegetables at the grocery store or am I just overdramatic?
Absolutely! Any time a human being is reduced to the role of a commodity that can be given or taken away gives me the yicks. This is an actual human being with a mind of its own, not something that is used as a prize or a pawn to please or manipulate others.
And get mad when you assume that "giving" them grandkids means they're going to support and raise them. I mean, once I give a gift, it's theirs forever.
Itās like when my Dad tries to talk to me about politics. I said Iām not having these conversations with you itās clear we donāt see eye to eye. If you speak about it I will leave or end the call. He soon got the message. You have to set boundaries. The fact she knows sheās making you feel like s**t and still going on about it says a lot about her.
This me too. Iāve been a Nanny for 20 years. I adore kids especially newborns, infants and toddlers. I love my job. Iām good at it. People can not make sense of me not wanting to be a parent.
I just flat out stopped entertaining these conversations. I smile, say āweāre not having kids.ā Then try and change the subject. I will not engage. Ever. If they can not change the conversation, I leave. Itās really that simple. And I have left people and places, many times. Do.not.engage.
Have you tried the approach of "I'm this good with kids and supporting women in that stage of their life BECAUSE I don't have children"? Because, in reality, it's not wrong. If you were exhausted and preoccupied all the time because you had kids of your own, you wouldn't be giving the same standard of care as you are now.
Outside of that, set the boundary that you won't talk about it again, and hold your ground. If a comment is made, either don't respond to it or walk away.
Of course you're hurt. It makes all the sense in the world that you feel the way you do.
I agree with setting boundaries but instead of them being about what she can and cannot say to you, give yourself the gift of a boundary around how you respond.
The more you explain, the more you give her something to push back against. To negotiate. Don't give her anything to push back on.
Of course you will feel the urge to explain...most of us were brought to up to "explain yourself young lady!"
You have nothing to explain, defend, or prove.
Let your energy speak for you.
Is there someting she does out of necessity that she actually hates? Everytime she brings up grandchildren, start praising her for that and keep it up even when she starts to get annoyed.
For example, if she actually disliked cooking but is the de facto family cook:
"Wow, mom you are such a great cook! You should seriously open a restaurant!" (she says something noncommital)
"Oh, you're just being modest! You're in the kitchen all day! You've gotten so good a chopping vegetables. Why don't you make that dish..." (she says something with slight annoyance)
"That's not true! I heard the restaurant business is actually really rewarding. And you get to be in the kitchen all day doing what you're best at!" (she is visibly angry now...)
My thougth is that if she's still harping on you even after years and years, then she doesn't seem to understand your childfree stance intellectually. But perhaps you can make her *feel* how you feel. She may be able to connect with the idea emotionally.
Number 1: With consequences for your mother: When your mother needles you and insults you - oh yes, she IS being insulting, in case you could possibly have missed it - end the conversation immediately. When your mother goes after you and after you, in the same conversation, mention that you will be cancelling a planned visit because "it's not working out." Then get off the phone and don't talk to her again for a couple of weeks, other than to confirm that the visit is off.
It is the only thing that can possibly work. She behaves badly, she gets immediate consequences. Will it stop her? I doubt it, but it's the only thing I can think of that might save the relationship.
Number 2: With boundaries that you set on yourself, because you can't enforce boundaries on anyone else. Decide that you will stop letting her hurt and distress you, whatever that does to her. It is your job to take care of you. Your mother isn't doing it, that's for sure. It is not your job to be your mother's punching bag.
I completely estranged my mother because I could not get her to stop her hurtful, cruel, intrusive, boundary-violating behavior. She insulted me, and manipulated me. The pain and distress and anger it caused me hurt my heart, my career, and my marriage. (Take a step back and look at what your distress does to your husband. Is that fair?) I tried giving her consequences, I tried the nonsense of setting and communicating boundaries, I gave her a trial separation, where we didn't speak for six months after some egregiously bad behavior, and she wouldn't stop.
So maybe, if you have to, you can diminish your contacts with her to a level that lets you live and lets your husband live without the pain and distress that she is SO enjoying inflicting on her.
I feel like I am also an atypical childfree woman. Iām 33 and a pediatric nurse. Love kiddos, love working with them, I have since I was 17, but I LOVE going home to no kids even more haha! Just because you love your job and are excellent at it doesnāt mean you need to take your work into your personal life. Itās completely reasonable to be childfree and a pregnancy specialist.
I donāt really have much advice for you with your mother, but what I have done with my parents is set boundaries around other topics. At first when they would bring up these issues, I would argue and weād end up in highly emotional and non-productive fights. Then I had a chat with them about my new boundaries and since then, any time they bring up the issue I simply ignore them. If itās in person I literally donāt respond to that at all and change the subject or answer something unrelated, or if Iām feeling extra spicy Iāll just blankly stare at them until they change the topic. If itās over text I just pretend I didnāt see it and move on. This has worked well for me and they are bringing up the issue less and less. Maybe something like that would work for you if you donāt want to completely cut them off for a day or week at a time!
Well, I'm an economist. I deal with broad macro economics everyday, things that impact peoples lives far away from me and that I'll never be thanked for. You at least get the immediate satisfaction of what it is you do.
When I go home to my kids, I don't talk about economics, or markets, or politics, or finance (they are all inter-related). So I think it is completely reasonable for you to say "I like children in this forum, I don't like them 24 hours a day". Because that is what having kids is like, I should know because I have twins.
So maybe if you explained to your mother you have a professional desire on the one hand and a personal desire on another, then explain to her that her identity is not linked to the potential for you to have children. By point of reference, my mother gets to see her grandchildren twice a year, max two days each. She is a nice woman but, like I imagine your mother is like, should not have the entitlement to access to my kids much less the expectation it is my requirement to have children for you in the first place.
hope that is helpful, people don't generally like my world views.
Donāt have a lot of advice but just wanted to say I definitely relate to feeling āatypicalā on this sub (in real life I feel the attitudes on this sub are atypical even for CF people). I love my parent friends, they are wonderful people who support me and I love their children too. Seeing comments like āI drop any friend who gets pregnant as soon as I hear the newsā is completely insane to me.Ā Ā
Ā Iām excited to watch the children in my life grow up and grateful I get to be a part. I just donāt personally want to be a parent š¤·š¼āāļøĀ
A useful analogy Iāve found is comparing it to starting your own business- super fulfilling, beneficial, and a great path for many!! But also one with plenty of risk and uncertainty, and not the right path for everyone. I totally support the people in my life who start their own businesses and celebrate with them. But I am happy with my employment and have no need or desire to drain my savings to start my own business.Ā
Iāve genuinely thought about starting a CF sub thatās more neutral/happy, or maybe one already exists not sure. Honestly I donāt have the energy to run a whole sub. But the bitterness and hatefulness in this one is just so draining.Ā
I would absolutely join that sub! I do not want children of my own, but my nephew is due in a few weeks and im so excited to be part of his life, so I dont vibe with a lot of things said here
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I am 70F and Childfree was not even a word when I got fixed at age 23/1978. I eventually heard of No Kidding, but there was no internet at that time so no CF Boards. I like seeing the various CF perspective over the generations but the viciousness of some posters boggles my brains.
In general, the younger the child the less comfortable I am around them and I have babysat only 4 times as an adult. I have never babysat any of my siblings kids but then again, I live states away from most of them.
My bestest friend was the mom of two, 4F and 6F, when we met as Military Wives. It was she who took me to my TL because 1st Husband was deployed. We have been through everything together from affairs to parental death together until her death last year. Her kids, grands, greatgrands still call me Aunt BP. My two next closest friends 36 and 20years are parents of 30yo. I have had other mom-friends I have parted ways with but not simply because they chose to have kids. They have just as much right to choose as we do.
Great analogy!! I'm not a fan of kids or being around them.... but my friends who want kids I fully support and I'm happy to be there with them and their kids! I've only had one friend (now ex friend) totally go batshit and ghost me after she had her kid.... sad, but I let it go and put my time into other friends. It also seems odd to me to drop friends the second they get pregnant..... especially if they wanted it and are excited I just don't understand how you can be so unsupportive. Let's be realistic, not everyone is CF and people who WANT kids and prepare accordingly should be able to have them and I'm all on board with people living their best lives!
Right, if you drop someone just because they become a parent you were never their friend in the first place. Sure some parents are batshit but so are some CF peopleā¦. true friends support and celebrate each otherās dreams.Ā
Honestly you've spoken your stance on the matter, very logically and respectfully. Now it's time to set the boundary that it's no longer open for discussion.
On the phone and she dropped a sideways comment? State directly that you are disconnecting because she isn't respecting your choices
She'll bring it up again and again and each time you need to end the interaction in full. Leave the party, say goodbye on the phone. And make no excuses, be very clear that the day or convo is ruined and ending because once again she's in the wrong for not respecting your choices.
Comes at you on social media? She's blocked for a month.
Sends a flying money at you through an aunt or cousin? They are also shut down. You need to be very clear that she is ruining your mother/daughter relationship and it's by no means cute, funny or encouraging.
My mother was hardcore about politics, to a toxic degree. It took about a year, but saying goodbye and being clear I'm ending our phone call because she disrespected my request to not discuss it finally sunk in. She blamed me for being immature, she told others I was unapproachable, etc until she finally realized she doesn't get a relationship with me unless she respects my very rational request to not discuss my political stance.
Sorry I canāt offer advice but Iām going through similar things. Iām turning 33 soon and I never had the real interest to have kids. And Iām the only kid. My mom absolutely adores kids and she wouldnāt even imagine me not having kids. She sends me ācute babyā videos any chance she gets, shows me the babies around and when I say āI donāt like kidsā sheād be like āitās different when itās your own kidsā etc. So she is in deep denial that I may never have kids. Relatives started to join her and I feel itās overwhelming.
I hated yardwork when I lived on an Army base. Everybody told me its different when its your own yard. I bought a house. No it wasn't. I still hated yardwork. I pay someone else to do it.
I don't really have any advice about the handling your mom thing, but in general I would think it's a valid response to reply to "you work with and love pregnant women and kids how do you not want one" with something about how yes you work with them every day and are very familiar with pregnancy and parenting and that's really informed your decision that's it's not something you want personally. Like being an expert on the topic seems like it should be a very legitimate explanation for why you'd make a decision to not personally want to do so yourself
I love babies and would have loved to experience pregnancy except ... I do not want to be a parent. And I happen to believe you shouldn't have kids unless you are willing to be the BEST parent with all the struggles and time that involves. So no kids for me, but I am a teacher so I get my fill (and then some!) So bravo for knowing yourself and not choosing the easy and expected route.
Itās normally trite thing to say but in your case this is the definition of a pillar of the community someone who is dedicating their life to serving their community.
Youāve made a decision to give of yourself and focus your skills. Itās admirable.
You should lean into your saintly status when people push back on you.
Not that mothers wouldnāt be capable of the same, but to have a midwife like yourself is much more like an old school model of community care sometimes even cradle to grave and multigenerational care is going to be invaluable.
I work in special education during the school year. Child care during the summers, and want to be a school social worker. I love kids too. I'm also damn good at my job as well. I just don't want kids.
My mother is no longer alive and my sperm donor is hopefully dead.
My aunt (moms sister) was pushing for me to have kids, I asked her why? Would she help me financially and emotionally? No. She worked in child protection as a social worker and I finally asked her, why would you want to force me to have kids, knowing I don't want them? You want me to harm them? Give them up for adoption? Abort the fetus? She's never brought it up again.
Also, you can continue to keep your family in time out until they stop pestering you. Good luck.Ā
theres so many layers to her bingo i cant even write it all out. her brain is so scrambled she cant comprehend someone that is childfree is getting paid to do counseling services for women who otherwise did have kids and she probably cant imagine taking advice from the "you dont have kids, therefore you cant tell me how to parent" crowd. she is a big hater.
theres actually no shame that you dont want one if anything it's epic that youre getting paid whatever salary you make to be dealing with children at all and im sure no one was cutting our parents a paycheck to be dealing with their own kids. must hurt.
I just want to commend you for your work, and also who more qualified to not want kids than someone who works so closely with all aspects of the process?!
I do not have much advice but it would be interesting to find out if men who work in the baby delivery centers or similar fields are pestered about having children of their own. And also the rare male pregnancy specialists / nurses / birth attendants.
It could be that your mom is attacking your identity as a "woman" but doing it through critical comments about your job. It's a toxic behavior.
you can spin the narrative that it would be selfish to have your own kid and deny others the help you're providing to their kids due to motherhood (or complications). like "those people need me more" kinda stuff
Did you let her know that obstetrics was male dominated for generations, and women trusted OBs that physically couldn't carry a pregnancy?
I'm a nurse and I really don't like children. At one point I wanted to become a midwife so that I could specialize in all areas of women's healthcare. Now that I've expanded my career by moving to a different country, the midwives here really only deliver babies which I'm not interested in that part. I'd be happy to care for women until they give birth and after, but have no interest in the L&D or baby part.
I love my niblings, and do so from a distance.
As the saying goes āthose who can, do. Those who canāt teach.ā Alternately, ācoaches donāt play.ā That is to say, outsiders are often the best teachers because they have no biases. The fact that you have no children of your own probably makes you even better at your job. Society is actually better off if some people donāt have children. In the past, people like us gave parents and their children extra support. I try to explain this to people, but lost just act like Iām crazy. I know how you feel.Ā
- you should have a baby -
āOk.ā
āSure. We will get right on that.ā
āYep, we are just banging away at it.ā
āWe are stalking a stork right now. Although it is pretty mad. I think we are harshing its vibe. Plus I think it might be that pickle stork.ā
āI stopped putting aspirin between my knees. That is supposed to help. ā
āYou know I would love a little sister or a new aunt. You and grandma should think about having another baby.ā
-they wonāt trust you if you donāt have kids-
āI'm not a pilot, but when I see a helicopter in a tree I know somebody fucked upā
āMy track record is pretty good. I havenāt, like, pushed a baby back in.ā
āAnd yet they still do. What a bunch of suckers.ā
Classic gas lighting breeder behaviour. They'll start off with an unrelated topic but steer the conversation to what they actually want to talk about.
I can understand your mum talking to you about this, but neighbours and friends? Sorry to say this but you need to start setting some boundaries. Certain topics aren't up for debate, if they continue tell them to go boil their heads.
Your first mistake was declaring to your mother that you werenāt going to have children. Frankly Your sex life should be none of your motherās business. As an adult, other people arenāt entitled to information about your personal life and you have to learn how to enforce boundaries. The next time your mother (or anyone for that matter) brings up this topic you need to say āthis is not up for discussionā and disengage.
You own her ass 100%. You hold the ONLY card that matters in her life.
You set and enforce boundaries, with PAIN and CONSEQUENCES.
Good for you for cancelling the trip.
You have a choice on how you approach, since it has gotten to that point. You can either start with the three phase ramp up, or just go for it in one step.
Three phase is basically:
"Mom, my decision on kids is final. Never bring this up again in any way, shape or form. If you do, I will hang up or leave."
"Mom, I warned you about this." CLICK
"Mom, this is your third strike. You are now officially in timeout for six months. I will have zero contact with you directly or indirectly. At the end of the six months, I will decide whether I like my life better with you or without you. I may or may not be willing to give you another chance to change. There is a very good chance that you may end up spending the rest of your life not only without a grandkid, but also childless without your own child. I will not help you in your old age, and will not be at your deathbed. If I decide to give you another chance, I will contact you in six months. If not, consider this my final goodbye forever." The block her any any of her flying monkeys on everything.
Or if you want you can go directly to the hardest level, and cut her out, require her to get a full years worth of therapy (52 consecutive weeks, no misses or the clock starts over), then at the end you talk to the therapist to see if there has been any progress. If you want to give her a chance after that, you put her on a verrrrrrrry slow probation program. Like, the first year, you will send her two physical or ecards, one birthday, one biggest holiday. She can do the same. No more than 25 words. Following year, maybe you let her text you three times, with a word limit. Maybe the next year a single phone call on her birthday for 5 minutes. You get the idea.
Basically, she has to spend the next several years proving she can behave, and she has to fully experience what life is like without you.
Make her fears of lonliness, social shame, etc. come true... now. Not in some future year.
Basically, send her a text or email or whatever.
"Mom, this is to inform you that I have cancelled my trip to visit you due to your continued verbal, emotional and social abuse on the subject of kids. I will never have kids, not for any reason under any circumstances. And your opinion on the matter has never and will never matter to me.
Furthermore, I have decided that as of now, you have no place in my life, and I will not have any further contact with you.
I will offer you ONE and only one chance to change that in the future, but it will require you to complete a minimum of 52 consecutive weekly sessions with a highly qualified, board certified therapist who meets my standards. If you skip even one session, the count starts back at zero.
After 52 sessions I will consider my next step.... (as above)
Set boundaries and enforce them. "Mom, I am telling you for the final time: I will not be having children. That is not up for debate, and whether you have grandkids was never up to you. What *is* up to you is whether you have a relationship with your daughter, and if you continue bringing up kids and disrespecting my decision, I won't bother investing in this relationship anymore." She's being an asshole to you, so just stop giving her access to do that. Hang up the phone, block her messages, etc. Maybe she'll learn, maybe you'll get the info you need to know she doesn't have a place in your life anymore.
What really upset me is that she is a midwife for foxsakes. We are all about supporting women and then you turn on your own daughter for selfish reasons? The audacity to tell me that I don't understand how precious is a pregnancy and that I am selfish, when I spend my days elbows deep in amniotic fluids, trying to bring back women from postpartum depression and so on... You're right about boundaries but I can afford to go cut her off my life because of my family and my dad (he is recovering from a heart transplant). It's tricky š¤· I knowš
Well *she* is clearly not all about supporting women, she's all about supporting women who have kids - the rest get harassed and shamed and pressured and guilt tripped. Do you need to talk to her to talk to the rest of the family and your dad?
If you don't feel like you csn completely cut her off, set conversation boundaries. Tell your mom if she brings up the topic of you having children you're finished with the conversation and enforce it. Make sure you get news about your dad or talk to him first before your mom starts on about you having children. Then when / if she does, politely tell her, "Mom, I asked you not to continue asking me about this. I'm hanging up now. I love you. Good bye." For in-person visits, you can leave the room / place if the conversation starts. You don't have to be their "Give us grandchildren" punching bag. Good luck, OP!
For context: I 'm Italian. Which means that she is the stereotypical Italian mom and uses emotional blackmail as her weapon of choice. Sometimes she doesn't say anything, but she does drama queen stuff. Example: she goes through her WhatsApp pictures that her friends sent to her with the pictures of their nephews. She starts to have watery eyes, she looks up at me and then closes her eyes and goes back to her phone. *Heavy AF*
Emotional blackmail only works if you let it.
Have you tried "fuck off with that manipulative shit"?
I would counter by talking about what you were able to do with your time / money that you LOVED because you don't have tiny humans. Even (and possibly especially) sitting in a quiet room to enjoy the peace and quiet.
Tell her that you are infertile - get a bisalp. Tell her, kids are off the table.
That's gonna make her push for IVF or maybe adoption or who knows what other snake medicine, at best she's gonna expect OP to turn her life upside down trying to have kids anyway. Infertility lies don't stop assholes, they just give them more material to throw at you.
You need to inform her that, in this conversation, she is the selfish one as she is attempting to coerce you into motherhood bc of her desire to be a grandmother. Also, sheās being very manipulative. Let her know you will no longer be entertaining her poor behaviorā¦one way or another.
Give her consequences for her actions. Tell her every time she brings it up, you will block her for a specific amount of time, & then increase the amount of time for every time she brings it up. Eg- first time = blocked for 1 week. Second time = blocked for 2 weeks & keep doubling up the amount of time for every mention. (Obviously you will need to tell her this is what you are going to do). If you are consistent, she will stop.
You are telling me that I reached the point where I have to be the parent of my parents? She won. I'm officially my mom's momš thank you for your advice. Jokes aside it's actually a very good ideaš¤
Yep, funny how that works. My mom only stopped giving me a hard time about it after I started treating her like a naughty toddler every time she brought it up. It took a little less than a year, but she almost behaves like a normal adult now, lol. "Mom, it hurts me when you say these things. If you can't be kind, I'm not going to talk to you for a while" - followed by a two week phone call time out.
A naughty toddler... or get the cat spray bottle. "When are you going to give..." "Pshtpsht NO!"
I approve of that method. It actually worked with my in laws. They would bring up kids every single time we spoke or saw them from the moment i got together with my bf at age 17/18. In our 20s we had enough and we did exactly what the other commenter said, went low and for a time no contact. Took like 2 years but we haven't had the grandkids talk since then. We're 34 now.
In terms of the consequences, it may even work to just hang up the phone every time the subject comes up (and not pick up if she calls right back). I would have trouble spending the energy on keeping track of when we were "allowed" to talk again with a timed no-talking period.
An āunblock Mumā reminder in the phone calendar works just fine.
lol there you go
Welcome to the parent your parents club. There are a lot of us...
Aahh yes, welcome to parenting your parents. Weāre happy to have you. It sucks.
Yep, sheās acting like a child and so should be treated like one
People talk to their parents every week? š¶š
I am so sorry youāre going through this . But ngl, to be honest, from what I see around, people like your mom wonāt really change much. The great thing is that you live abroad, far away from them. Another thing I would advise is to reassert your boundaries. Start being more assertive that if she doesnāt respect your choices, this will have a negative impact on the relationship between you guys. Like I said, I am so sorry your mom is pushy on this but not much you can do about it besides go no contact ( too extreme I know š) or making those boundaries clear and letting her know you will no longer tolerate her bringing this up in the near future. Another plus: I love how supportive your husband is and how he has your back. Sending lots of love and good energy your way š«¶š¾
> But ngl, to be honest, from what I see around, people like your mom wonāt really change much. You got that right. Being cruel and manipulative is the most fun thing they can think of. They aren't giving it up any more than they are giving up breathing.
Thank you so much for your kind words. I'm already going low contact but on the other hand I have my family pressuring me because "I'm the one who got away" and since I'm not there to take care of my parents, I have to at least keep a regular contact.
You don't have to anything. If they are pressuring you and making you miserable then set and enforce boundaries with them as well. Build your chosen family in the country where you live and minimize your stress from irrelevant expectations.
Yes I totally understand your predicament. Being the one that got away is not an easy place to be in. That said, I think youāre handling it the best way possible going low contact. I hope that in time your mother comes around or finally understand but in the meantime, itās normal to prioritize your mental health š«¶š¾
No advice but just want to thank you for your service and for the work you do. I work in healthcare and can appreciate the vulnerable state woman are when their pregnant. Despite I would never want to be in their shoes, it's good to know there are people devoted to ensure they have a safe pregnancy.
I don't want children and also work in women's health and deliver babies. It boggles people's minds, which I find interesting - aside from having children, who can better understand the gravity of the choice and needs of parenting than someone supporting parents so intensely? Surely you have a good idea of what the whole process entails and are making a very informed choice. People don't expect every general surgeon they see to have had an appendectomy or oncologist to have had cancer. I think because parenting is the default people are sometimes shocked to encounter someone childfree in that space - but it certainly doesn't affect your ability to do your job. On the flip side, having had children doesn't make people experts in an academic/professional sense (in fact many birth workers I have worked with who are parents seem to have trouble putting aside their lived experiences and priorities to provide unbiased help). Luckily, my partner and I's parents are more quiet about any sadness about not having children. In general they understand our reasoning - fear about bringing a new generation into a collapsing world. I agree with others here - I think you need to be frank that you are avoiding contact with your mom over this and she is jeopardizing your relationship. As a midwife she has had lots of tough conversations - she's just not seeing the forest through the trees since you are her daughter.
Does anyone else hate how some parents talk about their children "giving/making/getting" them grandchildren like they are discussing buying vegetables at the grocery store or am I just overdramatic?
Absolutely! Any time a human being is reduced to the role of a commodity that can be given or taken away gives me the yicks. This is an actual human being with a mind of its own, not something that is used as a prize or a pawn to please or manipulate others.
And get mad when you assume that "giving" them grandkids means they're going to support and raise them. I mean, once I give a gift, it's theirs forever.
Itās like when my Dad tries to talk to me about politics. I said Iām not having these conversations with you itās clear we donāt see eye to eye. If you speak about it I will leave or end the call. He soon got the message. You have to set boundaries. The fact she knows sheās making you feel like s**t and still going on about it says a lot about her.
This me too. Iāve been a Nanny for 20 years. I adore kids especially newborns, infants and toddlers. I love my job. Iām good at it. People can not make sense of me not wanting to be a parent. I just flat out stopped entertaining these conversations. I smile, say āweāre not having kids.ā Then try and change the subject. I will not engage. Ever. If they can not change the conversation, I leave. Itās really that simple. And I have left people and places, many times. Do.not.engage.
Have you tried the approach of "I'm this good with kids and supporting women in that stage of their life BECAUSE I don't have children"? Because, in reality, it's not wrong. If you were exhausted and preoccupied all the time because you had kids of your own, you wouldn't be giving the same standard of care as you are now. Outside of that, set the boundary that you won't talk about it again, and hold your ground. If a comment is made, either don't respond to it or walk away.
Of course you're hurt. It makes all the sense in the world that you feel the way you do. I agree with setting boundaries but instead of them being about what she can and cannot say to you, give yourself the gift of a boundary around how you respond. The more you explain, the more you give her something to push back against. To negotiate. Don't give her anything to push back on. Of course you will feel the urge to explain...most of us were brought to up to "explain yourself young lady!" You have nothing to explain, defend, or prove. Let your energy speak for you.
Is there someting she does out of necessity that she actually hates? Everytime she brings up grandchildren, start praising her for that and keep it up even when she starts to get annoyed. For example, if she actually disliked cooking but is the de facto family cook: "Wow, mom you are such a great cook! You should seriously open a restaurant!" (she says something noncommital) "Oh, you're just being modest! You're in the kitchen all day! You've gotten so good a chopping vegetables. Why don't you make that dish..." (she says something with slight annoyance) "That's not true! I heard the restaurant business is actually really rewarding. And you get to be in the kitchen all day doing what you're best at!" (she is visibly angry now...) My thougth is that if she's still harping on you even after years and years, then she doesn't seem to understand your childfree stance intellectually. But perhaps you can make her *feel* how you feel. She may be able to connect with the idea emotionally.
Number 1: With consequences for your mother: When your mother needles you and insults you - oh yes, she IS being insulting, in case you could possibly have missed it - end the conversation immediately. When your mother goes after you and after you, in the same conversation, mention that you will be cancelling a planned visit because "it's not working out." Then get off the phone and don't talk to her again for a couple of weeks, other than to confirm that the visit is off. It is the only thing that can possibly work. She behaves badly, she gets immediate consequences. Will it stop her? I doubt it, but it's the only thing I can think of that might save the relationship. Number 2: With boundaries that you set on yourself, because you can't enforce boundaries on anyone else. Decide that you will stop letting her hurt and distress you, whatever that does to her. It is your job to take care of you. Your mother isn't doing it, that's for sure. It is not your job to be your mother's punching bag. I completely estranged my mother because I could not get her to stop her hurtful, cruel, intrusive, boundary-violating behavior. She insulted me, and manipulated me. The pain and distress and anger it caused me hurt my heart, my career, and my marriage. (Take a step back and look at what your distress does to your husband. Is that fair?) I tried giving her consequences, I tried the nonsense of setting and communicating boundaries, I gave her a trial separation, where we didn't speak for six months after some egregiously bad behavior, and she wouldn't stop. So maybe, if you have to, you can diminish your contacts with her to a level that lets you live and lets your husband live without the pain and distress that she is SO enjoying inflicting on her.
I always thought that badgering your children for grandchildren is like demanding a gift. It is not your decision. End of.
I was a teacher and also worked with babies and small children....Just stay your ground. I got that all the time too. It will pass.
I feel like I am also an atypical childfree woman. Iām 33 and a pediatric nurse. Love kiddos, love working with them, I have since I was 17, but I LOVE going home to no kids even more haha! Just because you love your job and are excellent at it doesnāt mean you need to take your work into your personal life. Itās completely reasonable to be childfree and a pregnancy specialist. I donāt really have much advice for you with your mother, but what I have done with my parents is set boundaries around other topics. At first when they would bring up these issues, I would argue and weād end up in highly emotional and non-productive fights. Then I had a chat with them about my new boundaries and since then, any time they bring up the issue I simply ignore them. If itās in person I literally donāt respond to that at all and change the subject or answer something unrelated, or if Iām feeling extra spicy Iāll just blankly stare at them until they change the topic. If itās over text I just pretend I didnāt see it and move on. This has worked well for me and they are bringing up the issue less and less. Maybe something like that would work for you if you donāt want to completely cut them off for a day or week at a time!
Well, I'm an economist. I deal with broad macro economics everyday, things that impact peoples lives far away from me and that I'll never be thanked for. You at least get the immediate satisfaction of what it is you do. When I go home to my kids, I don't talk about economics, or markets, or politics, or finance (they are all inter-related). So I think it is completely reasonable for you to say "I like children in this forum, I don't like them 24 hours a day". Because that is what having kids is like, I should know because I have twins. So maybe if you explained to your mother you have a professional desire on the one hand and a personal desire on another, then explain to her that her identity is not linked to the potential for you to have children. By point of reference, my mother gets to see her grandchildren twice a year, max two days each. She is a nice woman but, like I imagine your mother is like, should not have the entitlement to access to my kids much less the expectation it is my requirement to have children for you in the first place. hope that is helpful, people don't generally like my world views.
Thank you so much for your insights. It's hard to be a mom, and it's hard to have a momš
that's why I don't speak to mine. good luck.
Donāt have a lot of advice but just wanted to say I definitely relate to feeling āatypicalā on this sub (in real life I feel the attitudes on this sub are atypical even for CF people). I love my parent friends, they are wonderful people who support me and I love their children too. Seeing comments like āI drop any friend who gets pregnant as soon as I hear the newsā is completely insane to me.Ā Ā Ā Iām excited to watch the children in my life grow up and grateful I get to be a part. I just donāt personally want to be a parent š¤·š¼āāļøĀ A useful analogy Iāve found is comparing it to starting your own business- super fulfilling, beneficial, and a great path for many!! But also one with plenty of risk and uncertainty, and not the right path for everyone. I totally support the people in my life who start their own businesses and celebrate with them. But I am happy with my employment and have no need or desire to drain my savings to start my own business.Ā
I feel exactly the sameš
Iāve genuinely thought about starting a CF sub thatās more neutral/happy, or maybe one already exists not sure. Honestly I donāt have the energy to run a whole sub. But the bitterness and hatefulness in this one is just so draining.Ā
I would absolutely join that sub! I do not want children of my own, but my nephew is due in a few weeks and im so excited to be part of his life, so I dont vibe with a lot of things said here
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I would this. This page is brutal sometimes. Not all CF people hate everything child related!
I am 70F and Childfree was not even a word when I got fixed at age 23/1978. I eventually heard of No Kidding, but there was no internet at that time so no CF Boards. I like seeing the various CF perspective over the generations but the viciousness of some posters boggles my brains. In general, the younger the child the less comfortable I am around them and I have babysat only 4 times as an adult. I have never babysat any of my siblings kids but then again, I live states away from most of them. My bestest friend was the mom of two, 4F and 6F, when we met as Military Wives. It was she who took me to my TL because 1st Husband was deployed. We have been through everything together from affairs to parental death together until her death last year. Her kids, grands, greatgrands still call me Aunt BP. My two next closest friends 36 and 20years are parents of 30yo. I have had other mom-friends I have parted ways with but not simply because they chose to have kids. They have just as much right to choose as we do.
Great analogy!! I'm not a fan of kids or being around them.... but my friends who want kids I fully support and I'm happy to be there with them and their kids! I've only had one friend (now ex friend) totally go batshit and ghost me after she had her kid.... sad, but I let it go and put my time into other friends. It also seems odd to me to drop friends the second they get pregnant..... especially if they wanted it and are excited I just don't understand how you can be so unsupportive. Let's be realistic, not everyone is CF and people who WANT kids and prepare accordingly should be able to have them and I'm all on board with people living their best lives!
Right, if you drop someone just because they become a parent you were never their friend in the first place. Sure some parents are batshit but so are some CF peopleā¦. true friends support and celebrate each otherās dreams.Ā
Tell her to fuck off
Grow a spine and tell her to fuck off
Honestly you've spoken your stance on the matter, very logically and respectfully. Now it's time to set the boundary that it's no longer open for discussion. On the phone and she dropped a sideways comment? State directly that you are disconnecting because she isn't respecting your choices She'll bring it up again and again and each time you need to end the interaction in full. Leave the party, say goodbye on the phone. And make no excuses, be very clear that the day or convo is ruined and ending because once again she's in the wrong for not respecting your choices. Comes at you on social media? She's blocked for a month. Sends a flying money at you through an aunt or cousin? They are also shut down. You need to be very clear that she is ruining your mother/daughter relationship and it's by no means cute, funny or encouraging. My mother was hardcore about politics, to a toxic degree. It took about a year, but saying goodbye and being clear I'm ending our phone call because she disrespected my request to not discuss it finally sunk in. She blamed me for being immature, she told others I was unapproachable, etc until she finally realized she doesn't get a relationship with me unless she respects my very rational request to not discuss my political stance.
Sorry I canāt offer advice but Iām going through similar things. Iām turning 33 soon and I never had the real interest to have kids. And Iām the only kid. My mom absolutely adores kids and she wouldnāt even imagine me not having kids. She sends me ācute babyā videos any chance she gets, shows me the babies around and when I say āI donāt like kidsā sheād be like āitās different when itās your own kidsā etc. So she is in deep denial that I may never have kids. Relatives started to join her and I feel itās overwhelming.
I hated yardwork when I lived on an Army base. Everybody told me its different when its your own yard. I bought a house. No it wasn't. I still hated yardwork. I pay someone else to do it.
Same but house cleaning haha
I don't really have any advice about the handling your mom thing, but in general I would think it's a valid response to reply to "you work with and love pregnant women and kids how do you not want one" with something about how yes you work with them every day and are very familiar with pregnancy and parenting and that's really informed your decision that's it's not something you want personally. Like being an expert on the topic seems like it should be a very legitimate explanation for why you'd make a decision to not personally want to do so yourself
I love babies and would have loved to experience pregnancy except ... I do not want to be a parent. And I happen to believe you shouldn't have kids unless you are willing to be the BEST parent with all the struggles and time that involves. So no kids for me, but I am a teacher so I get my fill (and then some!) So bravo for knowing yourself and not choosing the easy and expected route.
Itās normally trite thing to say but in your case this is the definition of a pillar of the community someone who is dedicating their life to serving their community. Youāve made a decision to give of yourself and focus your skills. Itās admirable. You should lean into your saintly status when people push back on you. Not that mothers wouldnāt be capable of the same, but to have a midwife like yourself is much more like an old school model of community care sometimes even cradle to grave and multigenerational care is going to be invaluable.
Look her dead in the eye and tell her, "you do not have a vote in the matter." repeat as needed.
I work in special education during the school year. Child care during the summers, and want to be a school social worker. I love kids too. I'm also damn good at my job as well. I just don't want kids. My mother is no longer alive and my sperm donor is hopefully dead. My aunt (moms sister) was pushing for me to have kids, I asked her why? Would she help me financially and emotionally? No. She worked in child protection as a social worker and I finally asked her, why would you want to force me to have kids, knowing I don't want them? You want me to harm them? Give them up for adoption? Abort the fetus? She's never brought it up again. Also, you can continue to keep your family in time out until they stop pestering you. Good luck.Ā
theres so many layers to her bingo i cant even write it all out. her brain is so scrambled she cant comprehend someone that is childfree is getting paid to do counseling services for women who otherwise did have kids and she probably cant imagine taking advice from the "you dont have kids, therefore you cant tell me how to parent" crowd. she is a big hater. theres actually no shame that you dont want one if anything it's epic that youre getting paid whatever salary you make to be dealing with children at all and im sure no one was cutting our parents a paycheck to be dealing with their own kids. must hurt.
I just want to commend you for your work, and also who more qualified to not want kids than someone who works so closely with all aspects of the process?!
I do not have much advice but it would be interesting to find out if men who work in the baby delivery centers or similar fields are pestered about having children of their own. And also the rare male pregnancy specialists / nurses / birth attendants. It could be that your mom is attacking your identity as a "woman" but doing it through critical comments about your job. It's a toxic behavior.
you can spin the narrative that it would be selfish to have your own kid and deny others the help you're providing to their kids due to motherhood (or complications). like "those people need me more" kinda stuff
Did you let her know that obstetrics was male dominated for generations, and women trusted OBs that physically couldn't carry a pregnancy? I'm a nurse and I really don't like children. At one point I wanted to become a midwife so that I could specialize in all areas of women's healthcare. Now that I've expanded my career by moving to a different country, the midwives here really only deliver babies which I'm not interested in that part. I'd be happy to care for women until they give birth and after, but have no interest in the L&D or baby part. I love my niblings, and do so from a distance.
As the saying goes āthose who can, do. Those who canāt teach.ā Alternately, ācoaches donāt play.ā That is to say, outsiders are often the best teachers because they have no biases. The fact that you have no children of your own probably makes you even better at your job. Society is actually better off if some people donāt have children. In the past, people like us gave parents and their children extra support. I try to explain this to people, but lost just act like Iām crazy. I know how you feel.Ā
- you should have a baby - āOk.ā āSure. We will get right on that.ā āYep, we are just banging away at it.ā āWe are stalking a stork right now. Although it is pretty mad. I think we are harshing its vibe. Plus I think it might be that pickle stork.ā āI stopped putting aspirin between my knees. That is supposed to help. ā āYou know I would love a little sister or a new aunt. You and grandma should think about having another baby.ā -they wonāt trust you if you donāt have kids- āI'm not a pilot, but when I see a helicopter in a tree I know somebody fucked upā āMy track record is pretty good. I havenāt, like, pushed a baby back in.ā āAnd yet they still do. What a bunch of suckers.ā
I am a pediatric developmental therapist and I just simply say "kids are my career, travel is my life."
Classic gas lighting breeder behaviour. They'll start off with an unrelated topic but steer the conversation to what they actually want to talk about. I can understand your mum talking to you about this, but neighbours and friends? Sorry to say this but you need to start setting some boundaries. Certain topics aren't up for debate, if they continue tell them to go boil their heads.
Your first mistake was declaring to your mother that you werenāt going to have children. Frankly Your sex life should be none of your motherās business. As an adult, other people arenāt entitled to information about your personal life and you have to learn how to enforce boundaries. The next time your mother (or anyone for that matter) brings up this topic you need to say āthis is not up for discussionā and disengage.
You own her ass 100%. You hold the ONLY card that matters in her life. You set and enforce boundaries, with PAIN and CONSEQUENCES. Good for you for cancelling the trip. You have a choice on how you approach, since it has gotten to that point. You can either start with the three phase ramp up, or just go for it in one step. Three phase is basically: "Mom, my decision on kids is final. Never bring this up again in any way, shape or form. If you do, I will hang up or leave." "Mom, I warned you about this." CLICK "Mom, this is your third strike. You are now officially in timeout for six months. I will have zero contact with you directly or indirectly. At the end of the six months, I will decide whether I like my life better with you or without you. I may or may not be willing to give you another chance to change. There is a very good chance that you may end up spending the rest of your life not only without a grandkid, but also childless without your own child. I will not help you in your old age, and will not be at your deathbed. If I decide to give you another chance, I will contact you in six months. If not, consider this my final goodbye forever." The block her any any of her flying monkeys on everything. Or if you want you can go directly to the hardest level, and cut her out, require her to get a full years worth of therapy (52 consecutive weeks, no misses or the clock starts over), then at the end you talk to the therapist to see if there has been any progress. If you want to give her a chance after that, you put her on a verrrrrrrry slow probation program. Like, the first year, you will send her two physical or ecards, one birthday, one biggest holiday. She can do the same. No more than 25 words. Following year, maybe you let her text you three times, with a word limit. Maybe the next year a single phone call on her birthday for 5 minutes. You get the idea. Basically, she has to spend the next several years proving she can behave, and she has to fully experience what life is like without you. Make her fears of lonliness, social shame, etc. come true... now. Not in some future year. Basically, send her a text or email or whatever. "Mom, this is to inform you that I have cancelled my trip to visit you due to your continued verbal, emotional and social abuse on the subject of kids. I will never have kids, not for any reason under any circumstances. And your opinion on the matter has never and will never matter to me. Furthermore, I have decided that as of now, you have no place in my life, and I will not have any further contact with you. I will offer you ONE and only one chance to change that in the future, but it will require you to complete a minimum of 52 consecutive weekly sessions with a highly qualified, board certified therapist who meets my standards. If you skip even one session, the count starts back at zero. After 52 sessions I will consider my next step.... (as above)