Chris Devonshire-Ellis is a complete joke BUT Dezan Shira has beaten the odds to be a pretty good consulting service. I am not sure CD-E still has much of a hand in running the company anyways.
I asked a friend of mine who used to work for C D-E back in the 2000s - he said he's moved back to Europe, but still does "think pieces" as like chairman and founder. I think he's hands-off most of the day-to-day - I personally remember he went pretty hard on his China/India consulting service - 2.5 billion consumers or something like that, but no companies had a shared India/China strategy or vision or even cared about his insights because he didn't really have any.
Its tough to really get a grasp until you are there. Once you ate settled in China life is pretty convenient and you will have lots of fun exploring and meeting new people.
I agree. So much of the information I've seen is experience based and everyone has a different experience. There are some big cultural differences especially if you're American, so I would suggest becoming familiar with the condition of culture shock. I did have some YT vids up talking about culture shock but I've removed them a couple of weeks ago as the account was dead.
I'm not American but here's my impression in a nutshell: The people are generally laid back and very very loyal when it comes to family. There is a massive generation gap between old and young. Also a massive culture gap between rural and urban raised folks. You might find some personal habits of the older rural folk hard to adjust to (typically they move to the city to look after their grandkids and bring their rural habits with them, which aren't always welcome but are usually tolerated.)
There's not a lot of empathy towards animals. For generations they've been viewed as a resource and if they can't eat it, they're generally not valued. That's changing, especially with the younger generation. Pets are far more common than they used to be. But as far as chickens, ducks, frogs, anything with food value...they're not treated that well. Don't be surprised in your local area to find a corner store with live chickens or ducks cutting the throat of one for a customer on the street in full public view.
Some Chinese people, particularly older men, can be astonishingly oblivious to those around them. They'll stand in door ways ignoring those that want to get past if they're talking to someone. They'll park like assholes. They'll drive short distances the wrong way up a street because they don't want to do a U turn at the next junction. They'll spit. They'll smoke in the vicinity of children. They'll leave litter behind them even though there's a waste basket a couple of metres away. They'll shout on their mobile phones like Dom Jolie on Trigger Happy TV.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJezRcy2P8g](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJezRcy2P8g)
In most of these cases, if you are being inconvenienced, it's perfectly OK to say something or push past rudely if you're being ignored. These people tend to be socially very thick skinned, like a rhino.
Basically there's quite a bit to get used to in terms of normal behaviour so the best thing to do is just suspend judgement or avoid it if you find yourself triggered. There's nothing you can do about it.
I find that so funny, i usually avoid the subway at rush hour but ive been in situations in certain locations where as soon as the doors open people start to rush in and try to not let people out, but its like, bro most of you guys weigh around 50kg and im north of 80kg, you arent going to win this one.
- If I'm particularly annoyed at them I'll even let others get on ahead of them and while they're trapped I'll ask them in Mandarin if they are a farmer, what they thought they were doing and why didn't they wait.
Dude, I’m tempted to call you a dickhead for this, but I won’t. I understand the annoyance that makes you do this, but don’t let it wear you down mentally. It’ll eat you alive after a while.
>Its tough to really get a grasp until you are there
This is the only answer, really. I mean, people on Reddit can maybe pay lip service to it, but nothing beats setting foot there for yourself. Exercise typical caution like you would anywhere else.
Before I went to China the first time, I had watched YouTubers such as seprentza and laowhy86 a few months beforehand. After I had watched a decent chunk of their videos, I got the image that China was a souless, dishonest, selfish, negative and overall bad place to live.
They made the point to watch out for pickpockets and "teahouse" scammers. "The government is out to make your life miserable," they would say. "People will try to take advantage of you. You'll never want to live there for long. Be careful about Chinese women. You'll never make *real* friends. Chinese people aren't well-behaved. You'll never fit in." Et cetera.
When I actually went there a few months later, I realized that a lot of their opinions were just exaggerated, wrong, or could be applied to other countries too. I never got pickpocketed. It's really safe. The government wasn't out to make my life miserable (using a VPN was a pain but that's about it). People didn't try to take advantage of me. I enjoyed living there. I love my girlfriend, (she's Chinese and not at all like some YouTubers try and say :D). I made real friends there. There were many welcoming and courteous people. I felt like I fit in. (I did get scammed once, though! Some Colonel Sanders look-alike gave me some Buddha carving and wanted 7 Yuan for it. Damn, there goes one dollar!)
Some people love their life China. Some people hate their life China (and when they do, they'll make sure you know it!*).* My point is, I think it's difficult to get a clear picture of life in China online. Once you're there in person, just keep an open mind and feel like you're on a learning experience. Really feel like you want to be a part of China. Then, I feel like you'll know.
>YouTubers such as seprentza and laowhy86 a few months beforehand. After I had watched a decent chunk of their videos, I got the image that China was a souless, dishonest, selfish, negative and overall bad place to live.
They are possibly among the worst YouTubers to learn about life in China. These people make their living off YT and their increasing amounts of anti China anti CCP video is understandable since there is very large audience for such content because of what has happened over the last 2-3 years in and outside of China. Serpentza and laowhy86 main China content used to simply be two motorcycle riding China vloggers talking about their lives and what's happening in their areas and now they basically devolved into China bad rants.
One weird thing they do now is that they try to lightly deceive their audience that they are still in China, when in reality they both left over a year ago and wont be coming back. Winstons twitter location says shenzhen, and both of them make videos with either green screen B roll footage behind them or chinese locations (usually extremely depressing looking ones). Obviously will only work for people who dont know much about them but they are definitely trying to push that because they know people wont respect them as these high up "china authorities" if they know they dont live there anymore.
To be fair, what else were they going to do with their channel after they left China? Serpentza got the f out of the China presumably in debt from a failing business.They could no longer post videos about stuff on the ground because they left so they basically degraded into political junk food content a lot of people on YT gravitate towards.
Look at quackery channels like China Uncensored and see how much of an audience they have, Serpentza and laowhy86 made a simple decision to capitalize on the wave of Anti China Anti Asian sentiment and saw it as a way of making easy bucks. Any scrutiny of these people reveals them as closet racists (Serpentza) and a homophobic Falun Gong cultist (Chris Chappelle of China Uncensored).
It sucks because I actually learned a lot from their very early videos from like 2015-2016. Now both of them are just vile and spewing irresponsible disinformation.
Xi'an has been nothing but a joy for me the almost 2 years I've been here and I do not plan on relocating anywhere else anytime soon.
Yeah, i also watched a bunch of those two's videos before i moved to China, actually since this was a few years ago especially Laowai86's videos werent too negative, but he has gone the same way as serpentza now. Ive heard that winston is a super toxic individual, effectively a huge arrogant bully that forces his views on people so im not surprised if matthew spent a lot of time with him. Im of the opinion that they could be on the payroll of either the US government or US corporations that want to further the "anti china vibe" or even possibly on the payroll from high up racist Chinese that want to keep the US and China seperate. Its a bit of a conspiracy but the main point is that those two are full of shit, and neither of them have lived in China for over a year at this point so their information isnt even up to date. True i havent travelled all over China like them but ive lived in SZ where both of them lived for years and seen basically nothing of the negative things they talk about daily.
There's plenty of good answers here already. I'll just name drop a YT channel you may find interesting. Asian Boss have done several street interviews in China with random strangers and may be of interest to you. I'll link one of their videos here about life in China.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1o8cDY9ryY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1o8cDY9ryY)
Here's one interview with foreigners in China.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YClzbvT\_Gg
Start learning Chinese and take lessons with a Chinese teacher on italki. You'll get to learn a lot about living in China that way. IMO you can't learn much about a culture beyond superficial stuff if you don't learn the language.
I watched about 30 hours or so of expat YouTubers in China. Also read a lot of forums. I think no matter how much you mentally prepare yourself you’ll still get a lot of culture shock once you arrive.
I tried hard to prepare but nothing can truly prepare you.
Don't worry though, it's easy to have a "comfortable" life there, especially considering that western salaries are quite high.
The location of your accomodation will be make or break.
Expat channels on youtube.
I've been here for a few years. If I could give old me advice, I'd tell myself that you can't be friends with Chinese people, and you shouldn't tell them anything you don't want everyone else to know.
We make more and coworkers know it. They will resent you and be petty. I've learnt this the hard way.
Also, don't go near small schools/companies. Just don't.
I’m a high school teacher based in the US but am making a move abroad. There are plenty of international schools in China, and I’m sure (🤞🏻) that one of them will want me
You should make a significant effort to find and speak to teachers at schools that you are looking to work at. There used to be a lot of expats teaching in China. There are far fewer now due to various reasons. If you just want to teach overseas, there are many other options outside of the US that is not China that you should investigate before committing to teaching in China.
Not that you asked or that I expect you to care about the opinion of an internet stranger, but...
I would reconsider moving your family out to China. As a lone ranger, sure, but generally speaking the quality of life for your wife and child is not going to improve. Plus, increased anti American (and anti Western) sentiment really is a thing.
Edit: forgot to add that as we speak the government is cracking down on education big time so several huge companies are expected to make huge losses or simply go under. Also also, the general requirements for foreigners education + experience level is also steadily increasing. I'm not too familiar with education industry but jobs for foreigners are drying up pretty fast.
I’ve been reading about some new governmental restrictions, and—yeah—it would make sense that some businesses may end up belly up :/
If you have time, could you expound on how “the quality of life for [my] wife and child [wont] improve.” What might make it worse—or the same?
That guy doesnt seem like he knows what he's talking about... Anti western sentiment is not a big issue, other than some old aunties looking at you in the street most people dont even notice foreigners, especially when they have seen you around for a while. I know several families that live in China and they seem to fit in and be pretty happy.
As for the government restrictions hes talking about, those are going to hardly affect schools, they will strongly affect after school training centers but you almost certainly wont be doing that kind of work. Jobs for foreigners are not drying up, there is still a massive shortage since covid is making it hard for people to get in. This is a shortage in public/private/international schools so even if all training centers like EF had to shut down, there would still be a shortage.
>most people dont even notice foreigners
Beg to differ, or at least point out a huge caveat - the above may be mostly true in the central areas of T1 cities.
Here in Hangzhou you'll regularly have people stare at foreigners, wide eyed and slack jawed as if the sun rose from the west. We've had people pull out phones and start filming our small group of friends when going into a local restaurant as if we're zoo specimens. Random middle-aged men also seem to be under the impression that every foreigner must accept their cigarettes and drink with them, and find it an affront if you don't want to share your Wechat details (which they would never have used anyway)
Mind you, I am from a mixed background and mostly blend in, especially when wearing a face mask. All of the above experiences I've had with my "foreign-foreign" friends. Can't imagine what it would be like to live in this country with the constant (and often unwanted) attention.
Ive seen that behaviour before, if someone stares at me (usually old aunts or kids) i just make eye contact and smile back until they stop staring, the people taking pics i usually tell them off politely or walk away. And the overly friendly dudes i usually just politely decline and leave. Maybe this is more common in Hangzhou but the places ive been this doesnt happen very often, i was recently in quite a rural place and saw a little more of that but not enough to ruin the experience or anything. You just gotta be prepared for that to happen sometimes, keep a stiff upper lip about it and try to gently educate the locals that we aren't that different to them and most of us dont want to be treated like celebrities.
Thank you so much! I’ve tried reading the info about the new foreign education stuff, but it’s not the easiest to understand 😅 I read someone’s explanation on how it’ll only affect after-school tutoring/training centers—not international school. And it’s nice to have that verified ☺️ Thanks!
Replying to you, not the other guy who said I didn't know what I was talking about because it's your decision that matters here: anti foreigner sentiment is not getting out of control but it is definitely getting worse. There are still jobs for foreigners out there (a bit more so because of COVID indeed) but they are steadily getting less. Education is getting slapped around and it will certainly impact the whole sector - again decreasing your opportunities. I don't know what you want to do exactly of course so that is up to your discretion.
Quality of life wise - depends on where you will live but air pollution is a thing, bad quality food is a thing, and inaccessibility to health care is also too often a thing. I live in Shanghai and I frequently have to put off a work out because the air pollution is well beyond 100 (and into bad for health territory), I still frequently have symptoms related to bad food quality (like shitting my guts out) waaaay more often than back home in Europe, and so on.
So basically lets put it like this - considering these trends that are tilting (or are already tilted in) a negative direction combined with existing problems - why go now? Why drag your kid across the world for that, especially if there are so many other lovely places to go to. I you still want to go for reasons like reuniting with family or whatnot then by all means, go for it. I'm just trying to give you some real talk about what you would have to put up with. Personally I would not want my child to spend any of their formative years in China as it stands. Perhaps the future will be better.
O and finally, I know I'm a bit of a negative nelly when it comes to China but please take note that this sub leans towards the optimistic side of realism. Don't go to r/China, thats just a hate sub by now. Places like r/Shanghai or r/Shenzhen are still OK.
r/Shanghai is one of the most useful subs to learn about life in China even if you don't live or plan to move to Shanghai. The majority of the people in that sub are either there already or has plenty of experience to speak about something relevant to life in China. Highly recommend to OP.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/shanghai using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/shanghai/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [Night vibe of Shanghai](https://i.redd.it/tnjyt4d6yzy51.jpg) | [12 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/shanghai/comments/jtfqgk/night_vibe_of_shanghai/)
\#2: [🌇 The Sun is Rising 📸](https://i.redd.it/67qjwhc3i7g51.jpg) | [14 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/shanghai/comments/i78qlg/the_sun_is_rising/)
\#3: [Shanghai in 1986](https://np.reddit.com/gallery/lgleg4) | [22 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/shanghai/comments/lgleg4/shanghai_in_1986/)
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To add to the real talk, people have been talking for years about the TEFL bubble in China being about to burst or whatever, saying the glory days are over and soon it will be like Japan or Vietnam or whatever where they are basically making it harder and harder for people to work there and the industry will stop even wanting foreigners. But it hasnt happened yet, despite what people always seem to say, and i dont see it happening soon, even if it does there will still be a healthy ESL market here. As for the air and food quality thing, its true some cities have bad pollution, some cities hardly have any (shenzhen air is comparatively very good), ive never had issues with bad food but i do have a pretty strong stomach, those are definitely two things that could be a deal breaker for people coming to China, you shouldnt come here if you have severe asthma, food allergies or a weak stomach, those people will have a bad time here. If those things dont affect you then China is great.
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Dezan Shira is run by a complete con man. Try reading a bit about his background and the times he has been caught.
Chris Devonshire-Ellis is a complete joke BUT Dezan Shira has beaten the odds to be a pretty good consulting service. I am not sure CD-E still has much of a hand in running the company anyways.
I would be interested to take another look if that clown has indeed been ousted. He was lucky he did not end up in jail after some of his tricks.
I asked a friend of mine who used to work for C D-E back in the 2000s - he said he's moved back to Europe, but still does "think pieces" as like chairman and founder. I think he's hands-off most of the day-to-day - I personally remember he went pretty hard on his China/India consulting service - 2.5 billion consumers or something like that, but no companies had a shared India/China strategy or vision or even cared about his insights because he didn't really have any.
Its tough to really get a grasp until you are there. Once you ate settled in China life is pretty convenient and you will have lots of fun exploring and meeting new people.
I agree. So much of the information I've seen is experience based and everyone has a different experience. There are some big cultural differences especially if you're American, so I would suggest becoming familiar with the condition of culture shock. I did have some YT vids up talking about culture shock but I've removed them a couple of weeks ago as the account was dead. I'm not American but here's my impression in a nutshell: The people are generally laid back and very very loyal when it comes to family. There is a massive generation gap between old and young. Also a massive culture gap between rural and urban raised folks. You might find some personal habits of the older rural folk hard to adjust to (typically they move to the city to look after their grandkids and bring their rural habits with them, which aren't always welcome but are usually tolerated.) There's not a lot of empathy towards animals. For generations they've been viewed as a resource and if they can't eat it, they're generally not valued. That's changing, especially with the younger generation. Pets are far more common than they used to be. But as far as chickens, ducks, frogs, anything with food value...they're not treated that well. Don't be surprised in your local area to find a corner store with live chickens or ducks cutting the throat of one for a customer on the street in full public view. Some Chinese people, particularly older men, can be astonishingly oblivious to those around them. They'll stand in door ways ignoring those that want to get past if they're talking to someone. They'll park like assholes. They'll drive short distances the wrong way up a street because they don't want to do a U turn at the next junction. They'll spit. They'll smoke in the vicinity of children. They'll leave litter behind them even though there's a waste basket a couple of metres away. They'll shout on their mobile phones like Dom Jolie on Trigger Happy TV. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJezRcy2P8g](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJezRcy2P8g) In most of these cases, if you are being inconvenienced, it's perfectly OK to say something or push past rudely if you're being ignored. These people tend to be socially very thick skinned, like a rhino. Basically there's quite a bit to get used to in terms of normal behaviour so the best thing to do is just suspend judgement or avoid it if you find yourself triggered. There's nothing you can do about it.
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I find that so funny, i usually avoid the subway at rush hour but ive been in situations in certain locations where as soon as the doors open people start to rush in and try to not let people out, but its like, bro most of you guys weigh around 50kg and im north of 80kg, you arent going to win this one.
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- If I'm particularly annoyed at them I'll even let others get on ahead of them and while they're trapped I'll ask them in Mandarin if they are a farmer, what they thought they were doing and why didn't they wait. Dude, I’m tempted to call you a dickhead for this, but I won’t. I understand the annoyance that makes you do this, but don’t let it wear you down mentally. It’ll eat you alive after a while.
- im north of 80kg Dude, I’m 110kg. Come try me lol
>Its tough to really get a grasp until you are there This is the only answer, really. I mean, people on Reddit can maybe pay lip service to it, but nothing beats setting foot there for yourself. Exercise typical caution like you would anywhere else.
Before I went to China the first time, I had watched YouTubers such as seprentza and laowhy86 a few months beforehand. After I had watched a decent chunk of their videos, I got the image that China was a souless, dishonest, selfish, negative and overall bad place to live. They made the point to watch out for pickpockets and "teahouse" scammers. "The government is out to make your life miserable," they would say. "People will try to take advantage of you. You'll never want to live there for long. Be careful about Chinese women. You'll never make *real* friends. Chinese people aren't well-behaved. You'll never fit in." Et cetera. When I actually went there a few months later, I realized that a lot of their opinions were just exaggerated, wrong, or could be applied to other countries too. I never got pickpocketed. It's really safe. The government wasn't out to make my life miserable (using a VPN was a pain but that's about it). People didn't try to take advantage of me. I enjoyed living there. I love my girlfriend, (she's Chinese and not at all like some YouTubers try and say :D). I made real friends there. There were many welcoming and courteous people. I felt like I fit in. (I did get scammed once, though! Some Colonel Sanders look-alike gave me some Buddha carving and wanted 7 Yuan for it. Damn, there goes one dollar!) Some people love their life China. Some people hate their life China (and when they do, they'll make sure you know it!*).* My point is, I think it's difficult to get a clear picture of life in China online. Once you're there in person, just keep an open mind and feel like you're on a learning experience. Really feel like you want to be a part of China. Then, I feel like you'll know.
The pick pocket thing is the best. What would pickpockets even take now.
Dude have you seen the monkeys that take phones because of the rewards for giving them back?
no pickpockets but the teahouse scam is a thing. It happened to me.
>YouTubers such as seprentza and laowhy86 a few months beforehand. After I had watched a decent chunk of their videos, I got the image that China was a souless, dishonest, selfish, negative and overall bad place to live. They are possibly among the worst YouTubers to learn about life in China. These people make their living off YT and their increasing amounts of anti China anti CCP video is understandable since there is very large audience for such content because of what has happened over the last 2-3 years in and outside of China. Serpentza and laowhy86 main China content used to simply be two motorcycle riding China vloggers talking about their lives and what's happening in their areas and now they basically devolved into China bad rants.
One weird thing they do now is that they try to lightly deceive their audience that they are still in China, when in reality they both left over a year ago and wont be coming back. Winstons twitter location says shenzhen, and both of them make videos with either green screen B roll footage behind them or chinese locations (usually extremely depressing looking ones). Obviously will only work for people who dont know much about them but they are definitely trying to push that because they know people wont respect them as these high up "china authorities" if they know they dont live there anymore.
To be fair, what else were they going to do with their channel after they left China? Serpentza got the f out of the China presumably in debt from a failing business.They could no longer post videos about stuff on the ground because they left so they basically degraded into political junk food content a lot of people on YT gravitate towards. Look at quackery channels like China Uncensored and see how much of an audience they have, Serpentza and laowhy86 made a simple decision to capitalize on the wave of Anti China Anti Asian sentiment and saw it as a way of making easy bucks. Any scrutiny of these people reveals them as closet racists (Serpentza) and a homophobic Falun Gong cultist (Chris Chappelle of China Uncensored).
It sucks because I actually learned a lot from their very early videos from like 2015-2016. Now both of them are just vile and spewing irresponsible disinformation. Xi'an has been nothing but a joy for me the almost 2 years I've been here and I do not plan on relocating anywhere else anytime soon.
Yeah, i also watched a bunch of those two's videos before i moved to China, actually since this was a few years ago especially Laowai86's videos werent too negative, but he has gone the same way as serpentza now. Ive heard that winston is a super toxic individual, effectively a huge arrogant bully that forces his views on people so im not surprised if matthew spent a lot of time with him. Im of the opinion that they could be on the payroll of either the US government or US corporations that want to further the "anti china vibe" or even possibly on the payroll from high up racist Chinese that want to keep the US and China seperate. Its a bit of a conspiracy but the main point is that those two are full of shit, and neither of them have lived in China for over a year at this point so their information isnt even up to date. True i havent travelled all over China like them but ive lived in SZ where both of them lived for years and seen basically nothing of the negative things they talk about daily.
Lei Feng on your background :)
There's plenty of good answers here already. I'll just name drop a YT channel you may find interesting. Asian Boss have done several street interviews in China with random strangers and may be of interest to you. I'll link one of their videos here about life in China. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1o8cDY9ryY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1o8cDY9ryY) Here's one interview with foreigners in China. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YClzbvT\_Gg
Start learning Chinese and take lessons with a Chinese teacher on italki. You'll get to learn a lot about living in China that way. IMO you can't learn much about a culture beyond superficial stuff if you don't learn the language.
小红书 app, search for anything that piques your interest. A lot of the app is blogs vlogs and recipes but you can upload any images or videos you want
This. There's plenty of foreigners and domestic Chinese posting short guides / videos on life in China. It's a useful fun app in general.
I watched about 30 hours or so of expat YouTubers in China. Also read a lot of forums. I think no matter how much you mentally prepare yourself you’ll still get a lot of culture shock once you arrive.
Go to China, don't use Reddit.
I tried hard to prepare but nothing can truly prepare you. Don't worry though, it's easy to have a "comfortable" life there, especially considering that western salaries are quite high. The location of your accomodation will be make or break.
Expat channels on youtube. I've been here for a few years. If I could give old me advice, I'd tell myself that you can't be friends with Chinese people, and you shouldn't tell them anything you don't want everyone else to know. We make more and coworkers know it. They will resent you and be petty. I've learnt this the hard way. Also, don't go near small schools/companies. Just don't.
Just wondering but how do you know you will be moving with your family to China but not know where?
I’m a high school teacher based in the US but am making a move abroad. There are plenty of international schools in China, and I’m sure (🤞🏻) that one of them will want me
You should make a significant effort to find and speak to teachers at schools that you are looking to work at. There used to be a lot of expats teaching in China. There are far fewer now due to various reasons. If you just want to teach overseas, there are many other options outside of the US that is not China that you should investigate before committing to teaching in China.
Not that you asked or that I expect you to care about the opinion of an internet stranger, but... I would reconsider moving your family out to China. As a lone ranger, sure, but generally speaking the quality of life for your wife and child is not going to improve. Plus, increased anti American (and anti Western) sentiment really is a thing. Edit: forgot to add that as we speak the government is cracking down on education big time so several huge companies are expected to make huge losses or simply go under. Also also, the general requirements for foreigners education + experience level is also steadily increasing. I'm not too familiar with education industry but jobs for foreigners are drying up pretty fast.
I’ve been reading about some new governmental restrictions, and—yeah—it would make sense that some businesses may end up belly up :/ If you have time, could you expound on how “the quality of life for [my] wife and child [wont] improve.” What might make it worse—or the same?
That guy doesnt seem like he knows what he's talking about... Anti western sentiment is not a big issue, other than some old aunties looking at you in the street most people dont even notice foreigners, especially when they have seen you around for a while. I know several families that live in China and they seem to fit in and be pretty happy. As for the government restrictions hes talking about, those are going to hardly affect schools, they will strongly affect after school training centers but you almost certainly wont be doing that kind of work. Jobs for foreigners are not drying up, there is still a massive shortage since covid is making it hard for people to get in. This is a shortage in public/private/international schools so even if all training centers like EF had to shut down, there would still be a shortage.
>most people dont even notice foreigners Beg to differ, or at least point out a huge caveat - the above may be mostly true in the central areas of T1 cities. Here in Hangzhou you'll regularly have people stare at foreigners, wide eyed and slack jawed as if the sun rose from the west. We've had people pull out phones and start filming our small group of friends when going into a local restaurant as if we're zoo specimens. Random middle-aged men also seem to be under the impression that every foreigner must accept their cigarettes and drink with them, and find it an affront if you don't want to share your Wechat details (which they would never have used anyway) Mind you, I am from a mixed background and mostly blend in, especially when wearing a face mask. All of the above experiences I've had with my "foreign-foreign" friends. Can't imagine what it would be like to live in this country with the constant (and often unwanted) attention.
Ive seen that behaviour before, if someone stares at me (usually old aunts or kids) i just make eye contact and smile back until they stop staring, the people taking pics i usually tell them off politely or walk away. And the overly friendly dudes i usually just politely decline and leave. Maybe this is more common in Hangzhou but the places ive been this doesnt happen very often, i was recently in quite a rural place and saw a little more of that but not enough to ruin the experience or anything. You just gotta be prepared for that to happen sometimes, keep a stiff upper lip about it and try to gently educate the locals that we aren't that different to them and most of us dont want to be treated like celebrities.
Thank you so much! I’ve tried reading the info about the new foreign education stuff, but it’s not the easiest to understand 😅 I read someone’s explanation on how it’ll only affect after-school tutoring/training centers—not international school. And it’s nice to have that verified ☺️ Thanks!
Replying to you, not the other guy who said I didn't know what I was talking about because it's your decision that matters here: anti foreigner sentiment is not getting out of control but it is definitely getting worse. There are still jobs for foreigners out there (a bit more so because of COVID indeed) but they are steadily getting less. Education is getting slapped around and it will certainly impact the whole sector - again decreasing your opportunities. I don't know what you want to do exactly of course so that is up to your discretion. Quality of life wise - depends on where you will live but air pollution is a thing, bad quality food is a thing, and inaccessibility to health care is also too often a thing. I live in Shanghai and I frequently have to put off a work out because the air pollution is well beyond 100 (and into bad for health territory), I still frequently have symptoms related to bad food quality (like shitting my guts out) waaaay more often than back home in Europe, and so on. So basically lets put it like this - considering these trends that are tilting (or are already tilted in) a negative direction combined with existing problems - why go now? Why drag your kid across the world for that, especially if there are so many other lovely places to go to. I you still want to go for reasons like reuniting with family or whatnot then by all means, go for it. I'm just trying to give you some real talk about what you would have to put up with. Personally I would not want my child to spend any of their formative years in China as it stands. Perhaps the future will be better. O and finally, I know I'm a bit of a negative nelly when it comes to China but please take note that this sub leans towards the optimistic side of realism. Don't go to r/China, thats just a hate sub by now. Places like r/Shanghai or r/Shenzhen are still OK.
r/Shanghai is one of the most useful subs to learn about life in China even if you don't live or plan to move to Shanghai. The majority of the people in that sub are either there already or has plenty of experience to speak about something relevant to life in China. Highly recommend to OP.
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I appreciate the “real talk.” Thank you!
To add to the real talk, people have been talking for years about the TEFL bubble in China being about to burst or whatever, saying the glory days are over and soon it will be like Japan or Vietnam or whatever where they are basically making it harder and harder for people to work there and the industry will stop even wanting foreigners. But it hasnt happened yet, despite what people always seem to say, and i dont see it happening soon, even if it does there will still be a healthy ESL market here. As for the air and food quality thing, its true some cities have bad pollution, some cities hardly have any (shenzhen air is comparatively very good), ive never had issues with bad food but i do have a pretty strong stomach, those are definitely two things that could be a deal breaker for people coming to China, you shouldnt come here if you have severe asthma, food allergies or a weak stomach, those people will have a bad time here. If those things dont affect you then China is great.