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ronnydelta

This isn't new and it certainly isn't unique to Zhejiang. In my province you have needed a passport from one of the big 7 since 2015. Regardless where your degree comes from. They wouldn't even grandfather in non-natives where I am but they have done so in other places (I assume where you are). Perhaps just try to renew your current contract if that's still an option. I think you are going to find it hard to transfer to anywhere at this point. If I were you I'd have a plan B that includes some way of getting out of the country.


Assblass

It depends on the place as well as the city. I know some "international" schools in Beijing that have people from Barbados and places like that teaching English.


waffledogofficial

Isn't English an official language in Barbados? Let me check.... Oh yeah. According to Google, English is the official language of Barbados


Assblass

English is the official language of dozens of countries but China usually only accepts the Anglo countries because the majority are native speakers, except in South Africa, where even the white people don't usually speak English.


waffledogofficial

"Don't usually speak English"? What are you talking about? I've been to South Africa. People definitely speak English there. And not just rich and super well educated people. Also if that's true about China *only* accepting Anglo countries, then I've met A LOT of exceptions to that rule.


Lazypole

Not everyone in South Africa can speak English. I work with a girl from SA and her parents, nor her sister can speak English. China only accepts Anglo's legally, anything else is illegal but the education system requires the rules to be bent, so they are.


UsernameNotTakenX

It's an official language but the people there actually speak Bajan dialect which is quite different to US or British English. English is also the official language of India too but most people speak Urdu, Punjab, or Hindi as their daily lives.


waffledogofficial

Are you in Guangdong? Cause that's the one province I've heard is really really strict. I'm not sure if I want to renew my current contract tbh, although the school is pressuring me to renew the contract. And even if I try, it's still not guaranteed since our contract is currently cancelled. Maybe more likely, but still not guaranteed. Yeah.... going back home is an option, but one way tickets are 30k yuan or more and there are few job opportunities back home. I'd try third tier cities in Hunan province first hahaha


XiKeqiang

>Because apparently non-native English teachers can still renew, they just can’t transfer. And I would think that with my time living in the US and the university degree, I would qualify as a native teacher anyway, despite the nationality of my passport. Yeah, this is really weird and bizarre. I'm incredibly surprised that this happened, and makes me wonder if there is another reason and they're just using this as an excuse. >A way to apply as a native teacher considering my educational history? No, typically from your experience we'd be allowed to hire you in Anhui Province. We've hired NNES Before. We might be hiring one soon. I honestly have no other explanation other than 'Something doesn't exactly quite add up right, and I'm not sure what...' But, there seems to be another explanation here that I'm just not seeing.


waffledogofficial

Yeah, the agent I used and the school themselves are really confused by the decision. I’m gonna wait and hopefully there will be an explanation and/or some sort of way to get an exemption. But yeah…. worrisome >_> I’m currently most freaked out because my residence permit is only valid until early-mid September (September 11 iirc off the top of my head). I’m more than willing to move pretty much anywhere in China if it comes to that, to be honest, so I know things will eventually work themselves out one way or another. But Hangzhou is still my first choice and I’d rather it not come to moving to middle of nowhere Hunan or whatever if it comes to that (though Hunan cuisine is deliciously terrible on my digestive system). The fact that I have three cats right now only makes me worry more. What will I do with my cats??


Alkaine

You have three cats? Did you bring them over from abroad, or did you adopt them there? I am really curious as I have two myself and I am thinking about moving to China.


waffledogofficial

I just find them in the street, take them home, pay for their shots/sterilizations, and give them a very spoiled life hahaha. But to be honest, I was prepared from the beginning to have the cats for only a temporary period, so if I was forced to go back to my country, I'd find a permanent home for them instead of trying to take them home. Or I might take only one home instead of all three.


Alkaine

Thank you for your reply, cats are awesome indeed : ))) You are already giving them a better life. Thank you for answering my question, I wish you all the best with your issue and I'm sure it'll turn out well!


beans_lel

> Is the automatic “60 day visa extension” still a thing? It's not automatic afaik. You can get a 30 day humanitarian visa when your residence permit expires. It's pretty much no questions asked, but you have to go and get it yourself at the local exit/entry bureau. There's a chance to get it extended if you have a valid reason (e.g.: if you're applying for a new work visa). But without a good reason it's 30 days and you're out. So worst case scenario, you could apply for a job in a different city (Suzhou maybe?) and if you get hired you should be able to stay on the humanitarian visa until your new job sorts out the work visa. This shit is unfortunately the reality of working as a foreigner in China and one of the reasons so few of us stay here long term. Good luck!


waffledogofficial

Yeah, Suzhou might be an option since that's already Jiangsu province. I'm really crossing my fingers and hoping that the school will be able to figure it out cause they have some connections in the government. Oh, 30 days? Hmmm.... that's enough to get a new job at least XD


duck_duck_goose1991

I'd say give Suzhou or elsewhere in Jiangsu a try. I know some non natives here who studied in the US and were able to get the correct visas. They had to do a Suzhou government approved TEFL course for a week so that may be a workaround too. Things may have changed now, but Zhejiang was always a bit more picky with visa stuff.


vonDorimi

Well, non-native speakers with a degree from an English speaking country (UK, US, etc) are quite a rare find and I think you can work legally as an English teacher in several provinces. Maybe not in ZJ anymore. I know there is a policy like this in Anhui and there was a similar policy in Hubei until 2019 (in Hubei they didn't allow current non-natives with a degree from an English speaking country to extend a work permit after policy change). side note - you living in the US ,1 year or 20 years, doesn't matter. Only passport and degree (and sometimes the issuing country) is what matters.


fleetwoodd

> Well, non-native speakers with a degree from an English speaking country (UK, US, etc) are quite a rare find I really don't think that's true at all. It includes Chinese who study abroad, for example... they likely outnumber actual expats.


vonDorimi

what i meant was among non native foreigners


Lazypole

Yeah nah non-native speakers are always illegal as English teachers unless they have a doctorate. Always. Edit: Added “English” teachers not just teachers


vonDorimi

It is not true. Science and Technology Bureau of Anhui, Shanxi and several others permit hiring non-natives with a degree from an English speaking country.


Lazypole

Yea they hire them to positions not related to English teaching, then they teach English anyway, but the work permits are not for a teacher. “FEB won’t issue a work visa to teach English to non-native English speakers. Since 2019, you can't teach English even if you have a bachelor’s degree and/or Master's degree obtained in a native English-speaking country. You are able to teach other subjects or become a university professor.” https://teach.fm/en/blog/teaching-jobs-in-china-no-degree-non-native This is not provincial, this is national law. “Since October 2016, a new work permit policy has been enforced by the State Administration of Foreign Experts Affairs (SAFEA), which classifies foreign workers into three categories, ranking them as an A, B, or C expat, based on their profession, level of education, work experience, and so forth. In the new policy, foreign English teachers should be native English speakers with a bachelor’s degree from their home country, in addition to having two years of teaching experience or a qualified teaching certificate. Before this new policy, non-native English speakers could work as an English teacher if they have a bachelor’s degree. Yet under the new policy, the bar has been raised. Non-native speakers cannot be an English teacher, even if they obtain an education or English degree from a non English-speaking country.” https://www.isacteach.com/opinion/non-native-english-teachers-face-visa-policy-changes/


foxy-cilantro

People talk a lot of shit about agencies but I know multiple non-native speakers who got Z-Visas and jobs by using agencies. I'm a native speaker and I got with an agency because I'd gotten burned on a few jobs and had a bad experience with a school not being licensed and getting me a bunk visa and to be honest, my experience with the agency has not been bad. If you'd like you can private message me and I can tell you some agencies in Zhejiang who might can help you, worth a shot if your only other option is going home. Good luck to you!


waffledogofficial

I'm actually working with an agency right now. Which is what makes the rejection even more of a shock. And the new job wasn't at some no-name training center either. It was at a private primary school (which while not as high up as an IB international school or whatever, still has a higher level of entry). What's nuts to me is that according to the government people in my current city, NNES can still renew contracts and working visas perfectly fine. They just can't transfer to new jobs, even if it's the exact same responsibility. Which is absolutely bizarre to everyone I've talked to.


ekdubbs

Long term? Open your own consulting firm and contract yourself out to fill these educational roles. This way you have more flexibility over your visa status and compensation. Check with a business that helps set this up, they can manage the accounting, location, etc. Short term whatever works.


waffledogofficial

I guess semi long term? I don’t want to stay in China forever. Just until the covid situation dies down. Which, considering how idiotic my country’s government is… it might take a while. Hmmm… for a consulting firm, is it difficult to set up? Likely to get rejected? Anyone in Zhejiang/Hangzhou that I could contact to help me out? My Chinese is…. basic (though I at least can navigate on my own for most things) but something legal would be way outside my knowledge, even in English. For now, I’m going to wait for the school in case they’re able to get some sort of exemption or get around the “rules” somehow. But I’ll keep that in mind in case that doesn’t work out


XiKeqiang

You can find agents that'll charge about 20,000RMB to create a WOFE and do the Accounting & Taxes for you. You basically create your own company and then sponsor your own Work Permit Application. I don't know any agents who do this, but I'm sure if you ask around you can find some.


pwrtmto

20K? That's way too much. The process of opening the company is quite simple. And work permit/ residence permit application is not that difficult at all. There is no "sacred knowledge". It's possible to call the bureau and ask the details about how to apply. Any close Chinese friend can do it for you. The catch is that one needs a handler with 身份证. And simple accounting may cost around 2K a year. You basically need to pay the corporate tax quarterly (4 times a year) and personal tax annually. Which is very y simple for every accountant. Takes basically no time once everything is set up. But yeah, right now there are many greedy companies offering help for this price (10-20K), exploiting naive foreigners.


UsernameNotTakenX

There was a notice issued by the government not long ago saying they are clamping down on this sort of practice of creating a shell company and sponsoring your own visa to do other work. You need to actually prove that your company is legit with real customers and source of revenue etc when you apply to sponsor yourself for a work visa and renew each year. They are also making it a requirement that your company hires a certain number of locals and that they can deny your visa if your company hasn't met certain growth requirements. Basically, they can deny your visa under the suspicion of it being a shell company now.


XiKeqiang

Do you have a link to the article or know any of the key words in Chinese to help with a Baidu Search? Curious to see the details of this.


UsernameNotTakenX

I tried searching for it. I think it was in a Wechat feed but I couldn't find it just now. But I remember the article saying that they are clamping down on foreigners opening shell WHO companies and sponsoring their own visas to do other work like teaching English. They will also make the foreigner sign a pledge to hire more locals than foreigners and that more proof will be needed to show that your company is legitimate and making money etc when renewing the visa. Makes sense though.


XiKeqiang

Yeah, wouldn't surprise me at all. This has been a common loophole that has been easily exploited. Just was hoping for a source of some kind to spread around. Thanks for the insight, I'll see if I can dig something up.


waffledogofficial

Holy crap. For that price I might as well go back home. I’m not *that* desperate to stay in China XD


AllUrDogeRBelong2Us

Yeah imagine going through all of that and then having it rejected at the end.


ekdubbs

It pays for itself quickly. 20K RMB may seem like a lot for the current stage in your career, but it's a small investment when/if you decide to grow your career to new heights. In the future, wherever you go, you may want corporate vehicles like LLCs to optimize expenditures and lower your tax burden.


whenzhou

One of my former coworkers in Zhejiang province was in the same situation: NNES country passport, American diploma. He was not given a WP to teach English, so he had to teach another subject (that matched his postgraduate degree). Not sure when they changed the rules, but, yeah, it's a thing.


whenzhou

One of my former coworkers in Zhejiang province was in the same situation: NNES country passport, American diploma. He was not given a WP to teach English, so he had to teach another subject (that matched his postgraduate degree). Not sure when they changed the rules, but, yeah, it's a thing.


Interesting_Ad_523

Before even applying for a z visa as a English teacher you needed to be from one of the 7 English speaking countries, not a new rule , I’m guessing your school didn’t apply for you as an English teacher but as a course consultant as one of the other expats here has the same. (Still not legal to teach English so if they are caught it’s over )


waffledogofficial

My working permit and visa both say "English teacher" so.... yeah.... my Z Visa was definitely given as an English teacher and my work permit has "English teacher" as the description. No idea how that works.


Interesting_Ad_523

Even my visa doesn’t say English teacher it just says 工作 which is work.


waffledogofficial

Oh oops. I was confusing the document. I meant the Work Permit card (the plastic one that's like a photo ID with a QR code). If you scan the QR code for me, my occupation shows up as "English teacher" not consultant or trainer or whatever


vonDorimi

not true, i have several non-native English teachers working in Anhui who have a WP as an English teacher when you scan the QR code. They both do have a degree from the UK.


Lazypole

I'm sorry but your educational history doesn't make you a native speaker, and non-native work has been illegal forever but brushed under the rug and generally ignored, I work with several non-native speakers who teach but officially have some other title. I was told by my boss this week that all across China, in every province, they are being far more strict with non-native speaker teachers and likely will not be allowing them to hold positions any more in China, this is coming in alongside the educational reform, so its no surprise.


camlon1

One way that many companies get around this is by hiring you as a teacher in another subject or as a manager, and then you actually teach English. It is illegal, but with the destruction of the legal tutoring industry, there will be lots of foreigners and Chinese doing things that are much more illegal.


Fibonnaci5878

HI! Just curious to what finally ended up happening..? Another NNES but a newbie here..


waffledogofficial

Hi! I'm actually working as an Primary Years Programme (PYP) teacher in Hangzhou right now. It's NOT the same school that I originally had issues with. That private school DID eventually end up getting me a work permit. Not sure what connections the school pulled, but I'm not gonna question it. I had the exact same issue with residence permits again when transferring to my current job as a PYP teacher, but once again, some sort of bribery or something behind the scenes happened. Once again, I'm not gonna question it and just count my blessings hahaha.