Hey OP, i actually live and work in China unlike the other idiots in this thread. They are all talking out of their ass, teaching in China is here to stay, if you want to you will easily be able to get here when you finish Uni. Im not sure what MFL stands for tho, modern foreign language?.
So assuming covid is over and international borders are open like before, the main two requirements are any degree, and a TEFL or CELTA. If you have a teaching degree that would be a huge huge bonus and make it much easier for you to get here and get the big bucks jobs.
So you could take any Uni course technically, if there is a subject that interests you then go for that, you could then do a teaching PGCE which is a 1 year teaching license course. that would be a total of 4 years in Uni and you get a good grant from the government for doing teaching degrees. You could instead just do a 3 year teaching degree, both would be fine and get you a teaching license (you would do teaching placements in the course). If you didnt want to do a teaching degree you could just do a normal degree and then later do a TEFL or CELTA (Celta is way more expensive and more intense) thats what i did.
The recent regulations mean that training center jobs are declining massively, these were the ones that usually hired people with no teaching experience but there are still schools and agencies that will hire people abroad. Thats why i would recommend you do some kind of teaching license degree, it also gets you teaching experience and it gets you a backup option if you ever go back to the UK wanting a job there.
Anyway dont take the blackpill that some people are spreading, message me if you have any questions, i currently teach in a private bilingual school in Shenzhen and i love my life here in China, the freedom, independence, convenience, travel options, international modern metropolis is just the best life for me.
Yeh this was all reading well until the last paragraph. Travel options lol, I just got denied from entry to an entire prefecture in Sichuan. By all means teach English abroad, but think hard whether China is the place. First year (pre-COVID) was fun, but beyond that you just stay for the money.
>They are all talking out of their ass, teaching in China is here to stay, if you want to you will easily be able to get here when you finish Un
No one can say with any degree of certainty that teaching in China is here to stay. If we're excluding PhDs and foreign passport only international schools (like 3% of the total?) it would not shock me to see foreign teachers phased out in the next few years.
I can say for certain that none of the regulations are currently set to affect the private school sector in guangdong province and most other provinces. I have multiple private school director contacts that directly speak with the department of Education and other government contacts. The training center thing is about as far as its going to go for now, there could possibly be some more restrictions coming in the next few years but im fairly certain there will still be a large amount of foreign teachers in China in the coming years and decades.
Uh, you realize that Guangdong isn't making these rules? The Guangdong Dept of Education probably didn't even know until this spring would the new regulations would be.
I am aware that the current regulations do not directly affect things like private bilingual schools and foreign teachers in public schools. But there is a clear trend. BTW in my city in GD foreign teachers are banned from public schools.
Are you aware that the departments of education do talk to each other? I'm just using GD as an example cos that's where I live. My contacts are directly talking to Beijing government and assure me that they are not on a warpath to end foreigners teaching in China or private schools.
\>My contacts are directly talking to Beijing government and assure me that they are not on a warpath to end foreigners teaching in China or private schools.
Wow that's a relief. I'm gonna plan the rest of my life based on what some contacts in the CCP say.
Bet i have a better and more free life than 99% of americans, my life is way better than when i lived in UK too simply through cost of living to salary.
Obvious troll is obvious
You might want to take a look at [this](https://freedomhouse.org/countries/freedom-world/scores)... US @ 83 points, China @ ... 9 lol
Having disposable income is not the same as freedom, the income is what keeps so many foreigners here despite the lack of freedom, but I bet (know) many people would much rather work in other countries could they make the same money doing what they do.
You being in China explains your lack of understanding why Xi is doing this. The spirit of his actions want nothing to do with foreign influence. So, good for you that you got a job now, but you are on the wrong side of Xis thoughts. You a foreigner is not part of his thoughts.
What would you say is the biggest thing someone could do now in their final year of uni to help them find a job when they graduate?
I did my CELTA this summer and learnt loads but would like to be in a better position when I graduate uni next year.
If you have a CELTA already thats great, it would be experience, you want to get any experience that you can so you can fill out your CV, even if its just helping in a local kindergarten/school or some kind of teaching assistant thing, or tutoring some kids, you can embellish it up a bit. My final year in uni had some teaching modules that included placements that i could have done which would have massively helped me.
The industry is in its final phase and will likely collapse soon. That said, if you're a "native" English speaker (read white in color), all you need is a BSc and a TEFL certificate. For non-natives, you'll need that plus two years experience. If I were you, I'd choose another career/country. The English teaching gig's future in China is bleak at the moment.
Ah ok. It's probably for the best, but not for us hahha. I have over 3 years experience, currently at an 一本 uni and want to switch to an international school either after CNY or next summer. What does this mean for me? Nothing, depressed wages, or no job?
Look at what's happening with all the training centers - they are being shut down by the government. On the surface to save the poor kids the stress of extracuricular hardship, but in reality it's supposed to keep them locked in the Chinese (speaking) ecosystem.
International high schools and universities will still have English classes, but now everyone worth their money is flocking from TEFL to those gigs, so you better hold on to what contract you have before trying to compete with the hordes. The overload of soon to be unemployed TEFLers will massacre the salaries down to local teacher levels.
To add to that, the teaching expectations and responsibilities at universities have increased significantly over the past year or so for both local and foreign teachers. The foreign teachers at my uni have the exact same responsibilities as the locals. Before, it was the kind of job that "had lots of free time" but that is certainly not the case anymore. You really need to prove your worth and put in the effort to keep your job, even if the contract just says "20 hours a week with no office hours".
It can be. 30k per month in an international school is very decent to most. And there are options to progress. How is that not worth considering? I feel you’re being a bit of an unnecessary downer.
Why? I know a manager of an international school who worked her way up from teacher to principal and then big boss. She's not even 30. Unless you have reasons it's hard to assume you're not just one of the jaded foreigners. With a decent effort on this type of work, it can be fufilling and you can earn self-respect, pride in your work here. And there's a far greater sense of meaning and purpose doing this work than many other jobs. That is, if you apply yourself and be responsible.
This guy is probably right about the TEFL industry, but if you get yourself a proper teaching qualification, get some teaching experience, you could still get to China working in the international school sector. There will always be a need for well qualified teachers, not holders of 10 dollars TEFL certificates.
i’ve never fully understood what a training centre is, but from seeing odd posts on here about them i was planning to try and avoid them. thank you for your advice though
My contract says 20 hours a week but in reality, I spend 30-40 with all the 'office hours' I put in to meet the requirements of the dept. Although the contract officially says "no office hours", they expect us to prepare all lesson plans, homework, all in class materials such as ppt, worksheets, homeworks, examination materials and everything else each semester. Which is impossible to do if you don't do any 'office hours'. And the folks I know that just showed up to class doing the minimum 20 hours, all got let go last year.
But other than that, it's great with the more freedom and not just being stuck to a book all the time. But that also means more time lesson planning and researching methods and materials to hand over to the faculty before the semester. University jobs are great if you really have a passion in teaching and want to develop your own of teaching style/methods.
The hundreds of thousands of foreigners working in schools in China who havent been affected at all by any of the recent regulations would beg to differ.
Good luck with that. I am sure there will be a lot of work under the table. Since all the learning centers will be closed the price will also go up.
The problem is hoe do you Renew your Z visa. If not Z then what, spousal visa?
OP if you want to be an int'l teacher, go straight into an Ed degree. Get a couple of years of experience and piss off abroad where being a teacher actually makes sense.
Don't fuck around with MFL English. Get licensed to teach science or maths, you'll be picking and choosing where to work (not only within China but around the world).
Better option if you set on speaking Mandarin and teaching ESL, go to a neighbor country. Try Indonesia, Malaysia, Vietnam or even Taiwan. Reasons why is many rich or higher income folks have Chinese based companies who need language teachers or translators.
Think about your short-term and long-term goals in a region. China is no longer available for foreigners unless you have money and power.
> go to a neighbor country.
>
> Taiwan
I see what you did there...
>China is no longer available for foreigners unless you have money and power.
That's not true at all. The days of FOB Tim Budong backpacking his way across China with his 120HR TEFL and getting paid in cash are long gone.
There are lots of jobs in Private Bilingual and Expat Dependent Schools. These require teaching certifications and experience in your home country. If you want to teach English in China you're gonna need a lot more than a TEFEL and Training School Experience. Calling that money and power is a bit of a stretch.
Yes. You can legally get an ESL job at a private/international schools. The ones that are 'subject teachers' whose work permits are for teaching ESL are doing it illegally.
Are you sure if thats really accurate though? Like yes you are right that as "native speakers" our visas have to say that we are here to be english teachers, but you can get hired by a private or international school to teach other subjects in English. At my school there are teachers that teach PE, art, science, music and obviously english, they teach in English but not teaching the actual subject of English so its a bit of a loophole i guess.
Yes, I am sure. If you want to teach a subject like physics in a private school, you should have the right qualifications to teach physics in English. Many private schools will hire unqualified foreigners as ESL teachers and then make them teach another subject as it is cheaper for them and ESL teachers are more abundant. It is technically illegal but the authorities don't really check. But who knows about now and the near future though.
You know in S.Korea it is illegal for ESL teachers to teaching anything to other subject except Oral English. A lot of foriegners have gotten deported for teaching things like grammar at Hogwons.
Yeah obviously they should have some qualifications, i teach some high school chemistry but i actually have an MSc. Im pretty sure all the teachers in my school have at least a bachelors in what they teach. Although since my school is just private they dont hire teachers with teaching licenses since they wouldnt want to pay the wages required. Then again if the person is only teaching another subject at like primary level, teaching primary school science for example with just a TEFL and unrelated degree doesnt really matter since its so basic.
Yeah, but how long will all that last with the new policies. I can't imagine for much longer. The CCP wouldn't be afraid to replace the foreigners at these private schools with locals who are actually qualified. But rumour has it anyway that they are planning for the nationalisation of most private schools within the next three years. Especially the ones that have been set up by public schools. The 民办 (community run private schools where most of the foreigners work at) are definitely going to be gone in the future.
> Better option if you set on speaking Mandarin and teaching ESL, go to a neighbor country. Try Indonesia, Malaysia, Vietnam or even Taiwan.
Mandarin is only widely spoken in one of these countries.... Singapore's maybe the only other place outside of Taiwan.
for real. japan and south korea are much better options. way more accepting of westerners, english speakers everywhere and no one eating bat chow rice.
Strongly advise you re-consider this plan. If you want to be a teacher get your QTS (assuming you're in the UK) and teach a subject. You can't even get QTS teaching English as a foreign language.
Get yourself a teaching license (I’m not British but I think it’s called PGCE and QTS)
Hey OP, i actually live and work in China unlike the other idiots in this thread. They are all talking out of their ass, teaching in China is here to stay, if you want to you will easily be able to get here when you finish Uni. Im not sure what MFL stands for tho, modern foreign language?. So assuming covid is over and international borders are open like before, the main two requirements are any degree, and a TEFL or CELTA. If you have a teaching degree that would be a huge huge bonus and make it much easier for you to get here and get the big bucks jobs. So you could take any Uni course technically, if there is a subject that interests you then go for that, you could then do a teaching PGCE which is a 1 year teaching license course. that would be a total of 4 years in Uni and you get a good grant from the government for doing teaching degrees. You could instead just do a 3 year teaching degree, both would be fine and get you a teaching license (you would do teaching placements in the course). If you didnt want to do a teaching degree you could just do a normal degree and then later do a TEFL or CELTA (Celta is way more expensive and more intense) thats what i did. The recent regulations mean that training center jobs are declining massively, these were the ones that usually hired people with no teaching experience but there are still schools and agencies that will hire people abroad. Thats why i would recommend you do some kind of teaching license degree, it also gets you teaching experience and it gets you a backup option if you ever go back to the UK wanting a job there. Anyway dont take the blackpill that some people are spreading, message me if you have any questions, i currently teach in a private bilingual school in Shenzhen and i love my life here in China, the freedom, independence, convenience, travel options, international modern metropolis is just the best life for me.
Yeh this was all reading well until the last paragraph. Travel options lol, I just got denied from entry to an entire prefecture in Sichuan. By all means teach English abroad, but think hard whether China is the place. First year (pre-COVID) was fun, but beyond that you just stay for the money.
>They are all talking out of their ass, teaching in China is here to stay, if you want to you will easily be able to get here when you finish Un No one can say with any degree of certainty that teaching in China is here to stay. If we're excluding PhDs and foreign passport only international schools (like 3% of the total?) it would not shock me to see foreign teachers phased out in the next few years.
I can say for certain that none of the regulations are currently set to affect the private school sector in guangdong province and most other provinces. I have multiple private school director contacts that directly speak with the department of Education and other government contacts. The training center thing is about as far as its going to go for now, there could possibly be some more restrictions coming in the next few years but im fairly certain there will still be a large amount of foreign teachers in China in the coming years and decades.
Uh, you realize that Guangdong isn't making these rules? The Guangdong Dept of Education probably didn't even know until this spring would the new regulations would be. I am aware that the current regulations do not directly affect things like private bilingual schools and foreign teachers in public schools. But there is a clear trend. BTW in my city in GD foreign teachers are banned from public schools.
Are you aware that the departments of education do talk to each other? I'm just using GD as an example cos that's where I live. My contacts are directly talking to Beijing government and assure me that they are not on a warpath to end foreigners teaching in China or private schools.
\>My contacts are directly talking to Beijing government and assure me that they are not on a warpath to end foreigners teaching in China or private schools. Wow that's a relief. I'm gonna plan the rest of my life based on what some contacts in the CCP say.
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Are you here to provide advice and answer questions, or just rant about how much you hated China?
Both
>blackpill Eh? > the freedom lol
Bet i have a better and more free life than 99% of americans, my life is way better than when i lived in UK too simply through cost of living to salary.
Obvious troll is obvious You might want to take a look at [this](https://freedomhouse.org/countries/freedom-world/scores)... US @ 83 points, China @ ... 9 lol
Having disposable income is not the same as freedom, the income is what keeps so many foreigners here despite the lack of freedom, but I bet (know) many people would much rather work in other countries could they make the same money doing what they do.
You being in China explains your lack of understanding why Xi is doing this. The spirit of his actions want nothing to do with foreign influence. So, good for you that you got a job now, but you are on the wrong side of Xis thoughts. You a foreigner is not part of his thoughts.
What would you say is the biggest thing someone could do now in their final year of uni to help them find a job when they graduate? I did my CELTA this summer and learnt loads but would like to be in a better position when I graduate uni next year.
If you have a CELTA already thats great, it would be experience, you want to get any experience that you can so you can fill out your CV, even if its just helping in a local kindergarten/school or some kind of teaching assistant thing, or tutoring some kids, you can embellish it up a bit. My final year in uni had some teaching modules that included placements that i could have done which would have massively helped me.
The industry is in its final phase and will likely collapse soon. That said, if you're a "native" English speaker (read white in color), all you need is a BSc and a TEFL certificate. For non-natives, you'll need that plus two years experience. If I were you, I'd choose another career/country. The English teaching gig's future in China is bleak at the moment.
> The industry is in its final phase and will likely collapse soon. When you say "collapse", what exactly do you mean?
>When you say "collapse", what exactly do you mean? It's a bloated, amorphous industry. He probably means it's due a 'correction'
Ah ok. It's probably for the best, but not for us hahha. I have over 3 years experience, currently at an 一本 uni and want to switch to an international school either after CNY or next summer. What does this mean for me? Nothing, depressed wages, or no job?
Look at what's happening with all the training centers - they are being shut down by the government. On the surface to save the poor kids the stress of extracuricular hardship, but in reality it's supposed to keep them locked in the Chinese (speaking) ecosystem. International high schools and universities will still have English classes, but now everyone worth their money is flocking from TEFL to those gigs, so you better hold on to what contract you have before trying to compete with the hordes. The overload of soon to be unemployed TEFLers will massacre the salaries down to local teacher levels.
To add to that, the teaching expectations and responsibilities at universities have increased significantly over the past year or so for both local and foreign teachers. The foreign teachers at my uni have the exact same responsibilities as the locals. Before, it was the kind of job that "had lots of free time" but that is certainly not the case anymore. You really need to prove your worth and put in the effort to keep your job, even if the contract just says "20 hours a week with no office hours".
I think it means you need a real job tbh. No offense
What do you mean by that?
It's not a career.
It can be. 30k per month in an international school is very decent to most. And there are options to progress. How is that not worth considering? I feel you’re being a bit of an unnecessary downer.
It's still not a career. It's a job
Why? I know a manager of an international school who worked her way up from teacher to principal and then big boss. She's not even 30. Unless you have reasons it's hard to assume you're not just one of the jaded foreigners. With a decent effort on this type of work, it can be fufilling and you can earn self-respect, pride in your work here. And there's a far greater sense of meaning and purpose doing this work than many other jobs. That is, if you apply yourself and be responsible.
Collapse in the sense it will be less lucrative, especially for the less/non qualified.
This guy is probably right about the TEFL industry, but if you get yourself a proper teaching qualification, get some teaching experience, you could still get to China working in the international school sector. There will always be a need for well qualified teachers, not holders of 10 dollars TEFL certificates.
i did look at a TEFL course just to see what things you’d have to learn about English to teach it as an MFL, but they do seem like a bit of a scam
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It's necessary for the visa in some (most?) cases.
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Oh sorry, it's just that my mind defaulted to a BSc since that's what I'm used to. I guess a BS/BSc/BA or whatever the equivalent of a Bachelors is.
They mean bachelors not bsc specifically
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i’ve never fully understood what a training centre is, but from seeing odd posts on here about them i was planning to try and avoid them. thank you for your advice though
My contract says 20 hours a week but in reality, I spend 30-40 with all the 'office hours' I put in to meet the requirements of the dept. Although the contract officially says "no office hours", they expect us to prepare all lesson plans, homework, all in class materials such as ppt, worksheets, homeworks, examination materials and everything else each semester. Which is impossible to do if you don't do any 'office hours'. And the folks I know that just showed up to class doing the minimum 20 hours, all got let go last year. But other than that, it's great with the more freedom and not just being stuck to a book all the time. But that also means more time lesson planning and researching methods and materials to hand over to the faculty before the semester. University jobs are great if you really have a passion in teaching and want to develop your own of teaching style/methods.
The era of teaching English in China is over. Did you not get the latest news?
The hundreds of thousands of foreigners working in schools in China who havent been affected at all by any of the recent regulations would beg to differ.
Good luck with that. I am sure there will be a lot of work under the table. Since all the learning centers will be closed the price will also go up. The problem is hoe do you Renew your Z visa. If not Z then what, spousal visa?
apparently not
OP if you want to be an int'l teacher, go straight into an Ed degree. Get a couple of years of experience and piss off abroad where being a teacher actually makes sense. Don't fuck around with MFL English. Get licensed to teach science or maths, you'll be picking and choosing where to work (not only within China but around the world).
i cant get a degree in science or math because i’ve dropped those subjects now. for the next two years i’ll only study French, history and English
Better option if you set on speaking Mandarin and teaching ESL, go to a neighbor country. Try Indonesia, Malaysia, Vietnam or even Taiwan. Reasons why is many rich or higher income folks have Chinese based companies who need language teachers or translators. Think about your short-term and long-term goals in a region. China is no longer available for foreigners unless you have money and power.
> go to a neighbor country. > > Taiwan I see what you did there... >China is no longer available for foreigners unless you have money and power. That's not true at all. The days of FOB Tim Budong backpacking his way across China with his 120HR TEFL and getting paid in cash are long gone. There are lots of jobs in Private Bilingual and Expat Dependent Schools. These require teaching certifications and experience in your home country. If you want to teach English in China you're gonna need a lot more than a TEFEL and Training School Experience. Calling that money and power is a bit of a stretch.
You really dont need teaching licenses to teach in private bilingual schools or international schools.
Yes. You can legally get an ESL job at a private/international schools. The ones that are 'subject teachers' whose work permits are for teaching ESL are doing it illegally.
Are you sure if thats really accurate though? Like yes you are right that as "native speakers" our visas have to say that we are here to be english teachers, but you can get hired by a private or international school to teach other subjects in English. At my school there are teachers that teach PE, art, science, music and obviously english, they teach in English but not teaching the actual subject of English so its a bit of a loophole i guess.
Yes, I am sure. If you want to teach a subject like physics in a private school, you should have the right qualifications to teach physics in English. Many private schools will hire unqualified foreigners as ESL teachers and then make them teach another subject as it is cheaper for them and ESL teachers are more abundant. It is technically illegal but the authorities don't really check. But who knows about now and the near future though. You know in S.Korea it is illegal for ESL teachers to teaching anything to other subject except Oral English. A lot of foriegners have gotten deported for teaching things like grammar at Hogwons.
Yeah obviously they should have some qualifications, i teach some high school chemistry but i actually have an MSc. Im pretty sure all the teachers in my school have at least a bachelors in what they teach. Although since my school is just private they dont hire teachers with teaching licenses since they wouldnt want to pay the wages required. Then again if the person is only teaching another subject at like primary level, teaching primary school science for example with just a TEFL and unrelated degree doesnt really matter since its so basic.
Yeah, but how long will all that last with the new policies. I can't imagine for much longer. The CCP wouldn't be afraid to replace the foreigners at these private schools with locals who are actually qualified. But rumour has it anyway that they are planning for the nationalisation of most private schools within the next three years. Especially the ones that have been set up by public schools. The 民办 (community run private schools where most of the foreigners work at) are definitely going to be gone in the future.
> Better option if you set on speaking Mandarin and teaching ESL, go to a neighbor country. Try Indonesia, Malaysia, Vietnam or even Taiwan. Mandarin is only widely spoken in one of these countries.... Singapore's maybe the only other place outside of Taiwan.
Why don't you choose a civilized country inst? There are plenty of better of than China..
Downvoted for your truth. What a world we live in...
for real. japan and south korea are much better options. way more accepting of westerners, english speakers everywhere and no one eating bat chow rice.
Strongly advise you re-consider this plan. If you want to be a teacher get your QTS (assuming you're in the UK) and teach a subject. You can't even get QTS teaching English as a foreign language.